Arrow The Flash Supergirl Legends of Tomorrow Spoilers

Arrow-verse @ PaleyFest: Flash's Next Big Bad, Savitar ID Clues and More

The Flash is slowing down.

“Next season we’re not going to have a speedster” as the Big Bad, executive producer Andrew Kreisberg revealed at a PaleyFest panel for the show and fellow CW super series Arrow, Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow on Saturday.

As for Barry’s current foe Savitar, whom Kreisberg said is part of this season’s “pitfalls” theme for the speedster? “We know who he is under there, and we’ve been planning this for a while,” the EP assured the audience.

Viewers might be getting some hints to the speed god’s identity as early as Episode 18, which introduces Abra Kadabra, “a villain from the future,” Kreisberg shared. “He knows who Savitar is. It becomes a moral conundrum to Barry and the team” as to whether to let Abra Kadabra go in order to obtain answers. The EP added that there’s a “great” Barry/Iris scene that tackles the question: “Can you be a hero if you do one bad thing for the greater good?”

Meanwhile, in Episode 19, titled “The Once and Future Flash,” “Barry decides that the only way he can find out what he needs to know is in the future,” Kreisberg previewed.

Other highlights from the “Heroes and Aliens” panel:

* In talking about next week’s Supergirl/The Flash musical crossover, Kreisberg gave a nod to Buffy the Vampire Slayer creator Joss Whedon, “who did those kind of episodes the best… They didn’t stop the main, ongoing narrative of the season. Those episodes spoke to what the characters were going through.” Similarly, both Barry and Kara are purposefully at a “romantic crossroads” ahead of the musical and “go on this journey together to either get back the love they think they’ve lost or not.”

* Flash fans, Grant Gustin feels your frustration with the Scarlet Speedster. “I agree most of the time as a viewer and a fan with the backlash that Barry receives,” Gustin admitted, noting that fear has been dictating the character’s decisions more than ever this season.

* Candice Patton would love to put on a leather superhero costume, but at the same time, “I love that she provides this very human quality to this very super show,” the Flash actress shared. “I think she’s extraordinarily important to Barry’s superhero narrative.”

* Reflecting on Arrow‘s 100th episode, star Stephen Amell felt “a much bigger sense of accomplishment than I thought there would be,” the actor said, before (jokingly?) adding, “I feel like the 200th will be easier.”

* Although Supergirl has made creative strides since its move to The CW, exploring issues such as immigration, journalism and LGBT rights, “It’s no disrespect to CBS, who were very gracious hosts to us,” Kreisberg said. “We pitched a lot of what we were going to do in Season 2 to CBS, and they were cool with it.”

* Kreisberg reiterated plans for a “real, true four-way crossover” next season. Amell, meanwhile, recalled CW President Mark Pedowitz’s response when he asked the exec if they’re going to do a crossover event every year: “You’re f–king right we are.”

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45 Comments
  1. Stormie Woods says:

    I would like a better moderator next time like getting Aisha Tyler back. There is just a grossness to the things Kevin Smith says. Get someone who likes and respects all four shows if you won’t do separate panels. I really appreciate Grant saying that he agrees with the blacklash Barry gets. Barry Allen can be super frustrating to watch. Excited for the things coming up on Arrow.

    • Nathan says:

      How is he “gross”?

      • Rana Kercmar says:

        He opened the panel talking about himself for what seemed like 15 minutes. Reducing the demo of the CW to 12 year old girls. Also couldn’t keep David Ramsey and David Harewood apart.

        • Ashley says:

          Yeah — I thought this was way too much about Kevin Smith. I like him and was initially excited to see him. But combining all 4 shows into one panel didn’t leave enough time for the moderator to insert himself into the conversation so much. I was also fortunate enough to attend the Arrow/Flash panel a couple of years ago and the Supergirl panel last year. Both were much better. Though I was happy to see Caity Lotz.

        • Lex says:

          Wasn’t there something along the lines of “I’d kill Felicity if I directed an episode of Arrow?” Yeah. The guy’s kind of a tool.

    • Nathan says:

      How is Kevin “gross”?

    • Lex says:

      Well, that’s a whole lotta info on the Flash. I kind of expected it from Kevin Smith; the guy does have favorites, or is this just Vlada? I actually think EBR might be with Aisha Tyler? She’s in Aisha’s directorial debut and they’ll be doing the festival circuit with that one.
      .
      Kreisenberg certainly wins the “F— You” award for suggesting they broke up WestAllen to put Barry at a “romantic crossroads” for the musical episodes. Thanks, buddy. Glad you got a chance to have a shmaltzy duet, but can we not determine the status of a relationship for a one-off episode? You keep praising Joss, but I don’t think you have any clue how to emulate him.
      .
      That’s something actually true for the entire DCTV verse–they’re really not following the Joss Whedon school of season-long arcs, and I think it’s to everyone’s detriment. Joss would mix the season’s mythology with some character-driven one-shots to really build the relationships, or one-shots that play with the television medium. Supernatural was also really good of this serial-mixed-with-procedural format.
      .
      The Arrowverse goes for PLOT PLOT PLOT PLOT PLOT, burning through story and not taking any time to breathe. I’d like to see the characters have actual conversations for once, instead of always being in crisis mode. It weakens both characterization and creativity.
      .
      And that was a random tangent. Didn’t expect that.

      • herman1959 says:

        Applause, applause, applause!

      • So basic make them a talk show

        • Lex says:

          Yeah I don’t think you understood what I meant. Basically I want more than an episode of American Ninja Warrior every week.

          • But that not what you said

          • Lex says:

            “Talk show” as a television genre means Dr. Phil or The View, though it could also reference late night TV shows like The Late Show and Jimmy Kimmel. Yes, I want people talking to each other because if you don’t have strong characters you have nothing but a bunch of shiny stunts–hence the American Ninja Warrior reference. If you don’t want any depth then I leave you to the kicky-punchy bits.

      • justsomeguy says:

        The “Arrowverse” shows focusing on plot is what makes some of them so good. The procedural aspect, such as the monster-of-the-week format for SPN is really what makes me frustrated with the show. For a show that has laid the foundation for some pretty epic stories, it wastes the majority of its season on yet another vampire/ghost/demon. The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, and at one point Arrow(I don’t watch Supergirl), they didn’t start that way, but after you’ve introduced your cast, and your central theme, there’s no reason to not just dive into that.

        If the Flash suddenly reverted back to its weekly MOTW format where it always ends in the bad guy being caught and everyone goes for drinks, I’d quit watching, and maybe a lot of others would too. Having an actual story, and using that to create your season tentpole episodes is a much better way to chart a season out imo. The story is always advancing instead of wasting time. Every week I watch the Flash, it feels like a mini-movie and I absolutely love that. All of the characters are unique, and the connections between them all are real. They’re allowed to build and grow through the story. I wish more shows had this approach, truthfully.

        • Lex says:

          To each his own. I think they’d be able to do the serialization better if they had fewer episodes, and there’s always some episodes in February or early March that are absolute drags to watch. Legion is doing the best job of serialization while still making everything distinct episodes, but they’re only working with ten per season.

    • Lex says:

      Update: Emily was not with Aisha, she was at Colton Haynes’ engagement party!

  2. Lysh says:

    Do they still do live streams for Paleyfest? I’m so out of the loop since taking a break from fandoms. I’m excited for a true four-way crossover next year and I’m hoping for a flashback-less Arrow.

  3. ALM says:

    I’m so happy to hear that the Big Bad for next season’s Flash won’t be a speedster! I feel like Barry’s being special has been diluted to the point of the everyday occurrence. However, I wish there were no Big Bads at all! I will say again, they make the heroes look weak as they cannot stop them until the end of the seasons. Please, please, please go to shorter arcs and showcase more DC villains.

    • Here is a list of Barry Allen Enemies
      Abra Kadabra[edit]
      Main article: Abra Kadabra (comics)
      Albert Desmond / Alvin Desmond[edit]
      Albert Desmond, created by John Broome and Carmine Infantino, first appeared in Showcase #13 (April 1958) as Mister Element.[1] His second, and more frequently used identity of Doctor Alchemy first appeared in Showcase #14 (June 1958).

      Within the context of the stories, Albert Desmond is a chemist who suffers from a multiple personality disorder with one law-abiding personality and another criminally inclined one. Under his darker personality he applies his knowledge of chemistry to create the identity of Mister Element, creating elemental weapons such as bulletproof silicon to shield his cars, and discovered a new element, Elemento, a magnetic light, with which he sent the Flash into space. After being sent to jail as a result of his first encounter with the Flash, he learns of the Philosopher’s Stone from his cellmate. He escapes, finds the Stone, and uses its power to transmute one element to another to restart his criminal career as Doctor Alchemy.[2]

      Over time he switches between the two identities, showing a preference for “Doctor Alchemy”. Eventually his good personality resurfaces and he quits crime and hides the Stone. Shortly after a new Doctor Alchemy appears and is revealed to be his identical twin brother Alvin Desmond, with whom he shares a psychic link.[volume & issue needed] This plot point was retconed in later stories to “Alvin” being a construct of the Stone created by Albert’s criminal personality.[volume & issue needed] When Albert confronts and defeats “Alvin” he resumes the role of Doctor Alchemy.

      While he has alternated between incarceration and freedom, equipment for both of his costumed identities has been used by others. Curtis Engstrom used the Philosopher’s Stone as The Alchemist and Alexander Petrov resurrected Mister Element.

      As Mister Element, Albert Desmond uses a weapon that can affect the structure of elements. As Doctor Alchemy, he possesses the Philosopher’s Stone, which once belonged to Merlin. The Stone allows him to transmute any element into any other element. He can control the Stone from a distance with telekinesis.[2]

      Baron Katana[edit]
      created by Frank Robbins and Ross Andru, first appeared in The Flash vol. 1 #180 (June, 1968)

      Baron Katana controlled a group of samurai robots, with which he attacked The Flash.[3]

      Big Sir[edit]
      Main article: Big Sir (comics)
      Captain Boomerang (Digger Harkness)[edit]
      Main article: Captain Boomerang
      Captain Cold[edit]
      Main article: Captain Cold
      Golden Glider[edit]
      Main article: Golden Glider
      Gorilla Grodd[edit]
      Main article: Gorilla Grodd
      Heat Wave[edit]
      Main article: Heat Wave (comics)
      Mirror Master (Sam Scudder)[edit]
      Main article: Mirror Master § Sam Scudder
      Mister Originality[edit]
      Created by Cary Bates, Bob Rozakis and Irv Novick, first appeared in The Flash vol. 1 #238 (December, 1975)

      Mister Originality was a thief with disguise and teleportation powers.[4]

      Pied Piper[edit]
      Main article: Pied Piper (comics)
      Rainbow Raider[edit]
      Main article: Rainbow Raider
      Reverse-Flash (Eobard Thawne)[edit]
      Main articles: Eobard Thawne and Reverse-Flash § Eobard Thawne
      The Top[edit]
      Main article: Top (comics)
      Trickster (James Jesse)[edit]
      Main article: Trickster (comics) § James Jesse
      Weather Wizard[edit]
      Main article: Weather Wizard

      So if they do it your way we would have the show over by december

    • ScottJ says:

      I agree. The shows do not need series long arcs and “big bads”. That places an un-natural and unrealistic construct on a season. And if the viewers aren’t too keen on a selected big bad there’s not much that can done to change it. The better episodes are frequently the ones that aren’t serving an underlying arc. Look at the source comics – they have villains for 1 issue, 2 issues, sometimes even more. At the end of a story line they either escape or are jailed. Neither of which prevents them returning a month or 2 later.

    • Ashley says:

      There was a significant amount of applause when Kreisberg said the big bad wouldn’t be a speedster next season. He seemed to not expect that reaction.

  4. I just can’t see a bad guy other than a speedster working on Flash

    • ALM says:

      Then honestly you don’t know a lot about the comics character. That’s like saying Superman can only go against someone with super strength or Batman can only go against vigilantes. I guess that leaves out iconic villains like Luthor or Joker. I would just like more variety. And I said arcs, meaning somewhere around three to six episodes, just not one for the entire season.

    • Hellfreezer says:

      I think the appeal should be not how fast does he have to go but rather how can he beat certain villains without killing them. Flash Fact: Barry’s fast but he’s also (meant to be) very intelligent. I’d like to see more of that next year.

  5. Goldenvibefan says:

    Rogues season 4 villains? I think so! FINALLY! So glad it’s not another speedster.

  6. Kevin says:

    I’m just so done with supergirl. mon-el ruined the show, and they refuse to acknowledge even paid reviewers are sick of it.

    • peterwdawson says:

      Dunno if it’s so much him as general problems balancing the cast and an over-eagerness to constantly make Kara and Alex right and whoever clashes with them wrong.

  7. I can’t wait to find out who’s under the armor. I love all the speculation around the identity of Savitar and I have pros and cons for every possible candidate.
    .
    I don’t mind a speedster as a Big Bad every season as much as some people seem to. I loved Reverse Flash, I was obsessed with Zoom and I’ve been enjoying the mystery around Savitar. I’m more bothered by Barry having to share the spotlight with too many ‘good guy’ speedsters. I love Wally and the way they developed him as a character and as a speedster. I’m fine with him doing his thing as long as Barry gets to be the main hero of the show (so far, so good). Same reason I prefer Jessie to stay on another earth.
    .
    All in all, I’m loving season 3 of The Flash. Love Barry, Iris, Joe, Cisco, Cait, Wally, HR, Julian, Savitar, and of course, Westallen. Keep up the good work, gang!

    • Amah Lydia says:

      just what i wanted to say. thanks for this nice comment you are a true flash fun.season1,2 and 3 of flash have been amazing. the only thing we want is barry been the only good speedster, and the rest been bad speedters. having a speedster as a villian in every season is going to be great.i can see that speedsters have a lot of desires and they can explore that. they should just make more use of iris,cisco,caitlyn and joe.kid flash can join jesse on earth 3, and the show will be okay.

  8. Gift says:

    Good, good, good!

  9. @mrsgr1972 says:

    Am I being silly in thinking that Savitar could actually be Wally? The speed “God” did mention something about going crazy being trapped in the speedforce for all that time. Plus, although they are siblings, Iris & Wally didn’t grow up together and he could be thinking that killing her will torture Barry beyond belief. I’m probably wrong but that’s the way I’m leaning.

  10. Crystal Dennis says:

    When will the season 3 of flash come out on netflix

  11. Azerty says:

    I think next year cross over should be Heroes vs Legion of Doom. I mean not just Reverse Flash/ Malcolm / Darkh like in LoT but maybe more past villains with a real motiv (not just revenge or world domination).

    • Azerty says:

      Or maybe adapt the Cadmus clone storyline from Justice League Unlimited that would be great (my dream would be Checkmate on screen, Smallville tried around the end but here with a 4 shows universe that would be so awesome).

  12. Joey Padron says:

    Good scoop about the shows. Glad The Flash will have a different big bad next season.

  13. mali says:

    you see iris need to die so barry could be abetter flash …they won’t be togther again and never have happy ending ….and they will stay next season best firendsor she won’t be alive…patty and barry will be togther forever.

  14. mali says:

    patty is comin back to the show in episode 19 and they will det back togther barry and her it will be like she never left and westallen will be best friends like in season 1

  15. ladydmaj says:

    …So apparently Legends of Tomorrow is doing nothing at all??

  16. Kenneth Bates says:

    This is going to be stupid season