Post Mortems
The Flash Season 2 Spoilers

The Flash/Arrow Crossover, Part 1: What's Next for Harry's Quick Fix? And Will Patty Learn Barry's Secret?

Warning: The following contains spoilers for Tuesday’s episode of The Flash.

With The Flash (meaning: Barry) not quite up to speed, the first half of the CW hit’s annual crossover with Arrow turned to comic book lore for help on Tuesday night.

To briefly recap of the spinoff-launching special event:

Barry and Cisco whisked Kendra Saunders off to Star City to protect her from Vandal Savage, but the immortal baddie wasn’t the only one looking for the barista. Her similarly re-re-re-reincarnated lover Carter Hall, aka Prince Khufu to her Priestess Shiera, flew in and literally snatched her up before being taken down by Barry and Oliver. Over the past 4,000 years, Carter eventually revealed, Vandal killed him and his soulmate 206 times, growing more powerful with each of their deaths.

To help push Kendra over the edge into acceptance, Carter shoved her off a roof so that she would take flight and emerge as Hawkgirl. However, it was a talk with Cisco — who was definitely the episode’s MVP for one-liners — that actually did the trick and got the young woman to embrace her destiny. The bad news? Savage got his hands on and made off with The Staff of Horus, an ancient weapon located in Central City. Afterwards, Oliver spotted his former fling with a young, superhero-worshipping boy who just may be his son. (More on that whammy coming Wednesday night!)

There was also plenty of action back at S.T.A.R. Labs as Caitlin and Harry collaborated to create a serum – one that might sound very familiar to Flash readers! – to help Barry run faster and thus have a better chance of defeating Zoom.

“If you’re a fan of the comics, you know that a big part of the comics is Velocity 9,” which was developed by Savage in canon, executive producer Andrew Kreisberg says. Seeing as how the scientists dubbed their concoction Velocity 6, “It’s safe to say that there’ll be a few more iterations of that formula. How it plays out and how it works and who uses it and the effects, that’s something that you’ll have to watch” to discover.

For now, we know that guinea pig Jay Garrick — who briefly used the serum so he could phase through Wells and remove the bullet Patty put in him (!) — is not a fan of the drug, strongly warning the docs to keep it away from Barry.

“He’s not jonesing for a fix or anything,” his portrayer Teddy Sears shares. “But he’s aware of the potential Velocity 6 has on his life. I also think he’s clear that ‘I don’t want to go down that path.’ But like anyone who has seen the other side, there are haunting memories of what could be and what could have been.”

The Flash Season 2 SpoilersMeanwhile, Patty got dangerously close to the truth about her boyfriend’s double life after coming face-to-face with Wells-Two, before Joe raced to the scene to abruptly intervene. That close call will leave Barry to wonder, “‘Can he actually have a relationship with somebody, and what does having a relationship with somebody mean?'” Kreisberg previews. A shame, since Oliver just clued him in to the fact that the hero can get the girl!

Coming off her own season of being kept in the dark, Iris will have the following advice for her pal: “‘I’m telling you, as your friend, that the way you handled things last year was terrible, and you caused a lot of unnecessary hurt,'” Kreisberg previews. “‘You have to do things differently if you really care about this girl.’ Then on the other hand, [Barry] has this new version of Wells, ironically, telling him, ‘If you really care about this person, you keep her as far away from all of this as possible, because if Zoom finds out, he’ll kill her.’ So Barry is really wrestling with those two things moving forward.”

But being the clever and curious cop that she is, Patty “doesn’t need any help getting herself into trouble,” the EP continues. “Patty loves the metahumans, and she loves the danger. She loves the science of it all, so in some ways, she’s being presented as the perfect girl for Barry Allen. So what’s it going to take for him to let her in?”

What did you think of the first half of the Flash/Arrow crossover? Grade it via the poll below, then hit the comments to back up your pick!

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Lily says:

    How about getting rid of Patty altogether? Can we do that, please? Then we don’t have to deal with any of that awful storyline.

    • Kate says:

      Good ol’ Lily. Always first on the scene to bash Patty.

      • Joe says:

        There’s always someone to bash the female love interest, especially in genre shows. Any female character, really. Sort of like how female podcast hosts get constant complaints about their voices while male hosts hardly ever hear “Your voice is annoying.” Kind of funny how that works, isn’t it? Especially when women do it just as much as men. It’s almost as though misogyny is so deeply-seated in our culture that it’s just the norm at this point.

        Patty is a very well-written character who brings a lot of good things to the show. Her storyline is one of the best things The Flash has going right now. And yet, look how much some fans hate her. Interesting, is it not?

    • AdM says:

      Aww look at the butt-hurt Iris fans…don’t worry your day will come haha.

    • lordofluck says:

      Agreed she feels like a waste to me they didn’t need the relationship just her as Joe’s partner would have been good.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      Awe check out the Iris fans still hating on Patty. Barry thinks she’s awesome ;) lol. And Patty is necessary because Iris basically demanded Barry move on. So he did. But that wasn’t his first choice, he tried with Iris, and she flat out reject him and stressed their friendship. Now it’s Iris’s turn to try if there’s anything there. But she cant until the Patty/ Barry run its course. That would make her a hypocrite if she did, becuz she’d be doing exactly what she gave Barry hell for last season ( admitting feelings to the other , while the other is still in a relationship). And remember the only reason Barry is with Patty, is becuz of Iris’s decisions. Plus she’s necessary as Joe’s partner too.

    • Ws says:

      Nothing wrong with that storyline…Patty is fine as a character… Iris repeatedly rejected Barry last season so he is free to pursue other relationships.

    • casey says:

      I like Patty. Iris and Barry have such a great sibling relationship, i think it’ll be squicky if they got together. I like having a great Male/Female friendship without the love interest potential. To me that’s a much more interesting relationship

    • John NYC says:

      I like the Patty character, having some civilians in the mix adds balance and she and Barry are a cute couple. Which Barry deserves.

    • tvjunkie says:

      She has far more chemistry with Barry than Iris ever has on this show.

    • Cyndi says:

      I love Patty and really hope she’s sticking around for a while.

    • bbn73 says:

      Don’t get me wrong, I am a West-Allen fan. However, I actually like it that Barry is having this relationship with Patty, and I think it will probably be the thing that pushes Iris and Barry together in the end. This is for several reasons:

      1. I think at this moment in time there is no way for Barry and Iris to have a relationship. It is too much pressure.

      2. Eddie committed suicide to save the day. Suicide is not an easy thing to get over. Even if it for hero reasons. Anyone who has lived through someone having committed suicide knows that it is hard to deal with. It takes time to process, not just for Iris but for everyone who was close to that person. Which includes Barry, who feels partially responsible. To rush into a relationship now is not the normal human trend, nor is it natural. Barry is a good guy. He already feels guilty for the death of Iris’s boyfriend, so getting together with her immediately after Eddie’s death may make him feel like he is disgracing Eddie’s memory. That would surely halt relationship growth. Giving space between Barry and Iris’s complicated relationship by throwing Patty in the mix allows for the emotional wound to heal, and makes it more likely that Barry and Iris will be a successful couple.

      3. Sorry! This one is off topic and I know it will make Iris and Barry fans mad. Please don’t forget I am hoping eventually they will get together! Just know this is a possible theory, one that I am not rooting for but I feel it must be presented. When Eddie committed suicide, he changed the future drastically! We know in Eobard Thon’s future, Barry and Iris marry. Well that is a future erased. Maybe they are no longer destined to be… Therefore you get a Patty and Barry comic book universe future, which all together would not be a bad thing because they do make each other happy and they are both seeking for what the other offers.

      Ok, so back to why Patty and Barry’s relationship could be good for the development of Barry and Iris.


      1. This point has already been made but I will expand on it. Iris turned Barry down multiple times. That has got to hurt Barry’s self-esteem a bit. Iris will now have to be the one to say she is ready. Forget the fact that she just lost the love of her life; she was infatuated with another man. Clouding her ability to see Barry as the better choice that he was.

      The last point leads to my next 3 points:

      2. Say Iris is ready for a relationship; it would be embarrassing for Iris to start dating Barry right after Eddie’s death because of how she rejected Barry for Eddie. Even if it is true love. With Eddie gone it would appear as though she is settling for “second best” and only because option 1 is no longer an option. As I am sure you can imagine this could very easily destroy the chances of Barry and Iris having a successful relationship.

      3. Iris may not even be aware of the fact that she likes Barry yet. To loosely quote Eobard as Wells in season 1 after episode 16, (the episode after Barry had gone back in time for the first time ever, where Iris admitted her feelings for Barry) “Iris never experienced the same conditions that helped her realize her true feelings for Barry”. That situation was erased from the timeline, and it never occurred. So if they are to have a relationship, she has to realize her true feelings for him on her own. So some outside situation/person has to help her realize these feelings. We already noticed that Iris got jealous when Barry was going strong with Linda. Maybe the best way to get her to realize her feelings for Barry is for her to see Barry and Patty happy, to make her realize how much she wants Barry. To help her see that he would be good for her. We have already addressed that, with how she has rejected him, she has to make the first move. Like many of you have already pointed out, Patty is Barry’s second choice. It may break Patty’s heart, but if Iris were to admit her feelings for Patty, who’s to say he wouldn’t dump her and come running back to Iris like he did while he was dating Linda.


      1. Let’s be honest here. Dating Patty maybe good for Barry too. (Realize I am saying this out of mild judgement and not strong judgement.) My number one reason for thinking Patty is a good move for Barry is because, in his whole life, he has had a desperate crush over Iris, who has never reciprocated any other feelings than brother-zoned/best friend relationship feelings. He had his sights set on her and only her. For that reason he was blind to all the crap that she flung at him. He loved her regardless of her rejecting him twice. He really had never had a chance to develop standards for how he wants to be treated in a relationship. Now he is not having to pine after anyone and he is happy in a sweet relationship. He is learning how to share thoughts and expectations, and he is learning how it feels to be treated with respect. I am not trying to say Iris is a girl out to hurt Barry emotionally, or that she treats him disrespectfully. However, they grew up together. They may have already figured out the hardest thing in a successful relationship, which is how to function living together. Yet, if Barry and Iris were to get together, I believe their greatest issues would be history because they are already sibling equivalent level comfortable with each other. They will both need to have standards of how they want to be treated to make sure they don’t create childish issue of each other like siblings sometimes do. Being in a relationship with Patty allows him to set standards for himself.

      2. There are several potential issues Barry could run into while dating Patty that could make him realize Iris still his his best choice. The most relevant one is the multiple part issue. Can he just randomly date people not involved in his current life style and social circle? To make it work with Patty, he will have to be open and honest. She makes this very clear. I like Patty’s character a lot, she is adorable, flirty, and cute, while being determined. It is her determination that helps her do her job well and thoroughly. Yet her thoroughness keeps “almost” getting her nose stuck in issues that she should not be involved in yet. Obviously if Barry dated girl, after girl, after girl there would be no way he could tell them his secret. Because if he had a bad break up, it is likely that the whole city could know his secret identity. But he doesn’t date prolifically. He is just dating Patty. It is dangerous for her to be kept in the dark, as was obvious when she shot Wells in last night’s episode, but, on the other hand, can he trust her enough to tell her the truth? She is an awful liar and may not be able to handle concealing a secret that large. He may realize he cannot do this and go back to Iris, who is a less risky option and his first choice. So in this way Patty and Barry’s relationship could be a plot device for the bridging of Barry and Iris’s relationship.


      Assuming that Eddie did not erase/change the part of the future where Barry and Iris do inevitably end up getting married… We all know it will happen. To have Barry and Iris get together after the death of Eddie is ehhh…

      I hope that if/when Barry and Iris do get together, it will be something magical, meaningful to the plot, and exciting! Something worth waiting for.

      By dating Patty the writers are throwing out some comic book lore, while giving us something to debate about. Giving the story time. I feel that by letting Barry date Patty now, they are drawing out the suspense and longing for that moment when Barry and Iris get together.

      Hopefully this shed light to all the Patty hater’s out there to see why she is not a completely useless character.

      Most importantly though, there is nothing worse than a show that goes too big too fast and has nowhere else to go! Maybe they are doing what The Big Bang Theory did with Leonard and Penny. Everyone knew they were going to end up together eventually, by the first season, yet they took their time and let it build up. 10 very successful seasons later, here we are with a show where each main actor makes a million dollars an episode, and where Penny and Leonard JUST got married. 10 season’s later, we finally got what we all wanted from episode 1! Yet it is one of the most watched and highest rated shows on TV, because people were/are interested in it enough to go along for the ride. I’m not saying I want to wait 10 seasons for Barry and Iris to get together. But it allows the story it to takes it’s time. Writers are not always stupid. They usually have a purpose for writing people into a story. While they are not instantly gratifying our desire to see Barry and Iris together, they generally know that most of the population wants them to hook up, and if it never happened they would have outrage. Yet this delay between the events that we know will eventually happen, only helps the show stay wonderful longer.

  2. Emily says:

    Iris always gives Barry the best advice, because she knows him best.

  3. herman1959 says:

    Crazytown Awesome! Seriously, the show was EVERYTHING.

    • Lily says:

      Patty is the most unnecessary character on the show though. Seriously, if she didn’t exist, we’d lose nothing, and best of all we wouldn’t have to deal with this secret identity storyline in the first place. It’s not needed. At all.

      • Steven says:

        I disagree, Lily. I think it’s important to have someone on the show who *doesn’t* know everyone’s secret identities. This is a trap that too many shows have fallen into before: If everyone on your show is a supernatural creature, superhero, or super-spy, then you lose the fun of having real people to be amazed at all the stuff going on. Alias got this right in the first season, when Sydney had friends who weren’t part of the spy world. If you look at all the genre shows we all love, going back for years, you can see a pattern: When there are characters who don’t know every little secret of our main characters, it provides more fun story options.

      • Vaishali Patel says:

        Yes so true patty is unnecessary

      • Mo says:

        Same could be said of Iris or any love interest.

        • Lily says:

          Are you crazy? Iris is the matriarch of the Flash family and Barry’s lightning rod. Not that they’ve bothered to even go into that, but she’s supposed to be the most important person in his whole life.

          • Z says:

            Matriarch of the Flash family? I dont know if i’d go that far… she was missing and presumed dead for a good chunk of the run of the various Flash series and even when she returned she was sparsely used and never given that level of importance. The “New 52” even undid their marriage and put Barry in a relationship with Patty, similar to what is on the show.

          • Mo says:

            You’re describing the book, not the show. Love interests are needed only to inject artificial drama and to reassure the viewer that this guy going around in a bodysuit is straight as an arrow. That’s it.

        • Joe says:

          Yes, let’s just get rid of all female characters while we’re at it. Who needs them, right Mo?

          You see what I’m saying, people? All female characters get a ton of this. FAR more than the males. Seeing a pattern yet?

      • tvjunkie says:

        I guess if you are arguing Barry shouldnt have a love life. He has far more chemistry with Patty than any other love interests he’s had, especially Iris

      • Z says:

        Patty is actually a character from the comic books… not someone that was created for the show.

  4. dancmh says:

    I was really hoping for the first physical use of Cisco’s powers and I hate when they run down Jay because…reasons. That being said, there was a lot to like about the episode tonight. Needed more Malcom.

  5. Mik says:

    Well, I guess at least we know Iris still exists somewhere. I’m so glad she’s around to be Barry’s support system while he doesn’t have to reciprocate. That’s true friendship!

  6. Skittles&Bits says:

    I just about had a “f**king Sookie” moment when Patty pops up in Star Labs (can they please for the love of all that is good and reasonable upgrade their security??? Please can we just start a fund for some security at star labs???) gun swinging and ready to go all bad-cop on Wells2. The writers need to axe that and they need to axe that pronto. Decent crossover. I cringed at some of the Arrow parts only because I don’t follow the show so there were a lot of surprising bits but otherwise, well done. I’m actually looking forward to part 2 and LoL.

    • herman1959 says:

      I liked the part when Barry asked if Oliver gets cold. It was about time that some one called him on those bare arms.

    • Drew says:

      She didn’t go bad-cop. She followed a confessed murderer and shot him when he moved toward him with something that looked like a gun. That is just a normal cop.

    • Dj says:

      It would be funny if in tonight’s Arrow if they all are in Star Labs and Malcolm and the LoA walk out from the darkness.

  7. GraceM says:

    Can’t wait for part two tomorrow night!!!!!!

  8. Tiffany says:

    And we have Iris being the absolute best friend to Barry, giving him sound advice…wonder when Barry will actually be HER best friend. This season he’s been lackluster AF.

    • Ws says:

      Well.. Barry kept moping after her last season and she kept rejecting him… plus he feels guilty for the death of Eddie… Who can blame him for pulling back on the friendship for a bit?

    • Joe says:

      Well, it’s not as good as season one… But I don’t think I’d call it lackluster at all. I mean we’ve had a fair amount of action and drama. Plus Zoom. I’ve seen a lot of boring TV shows and even boring superhero TV shows. *Cough!* Heroes Reborn! *Cough!* This most certainly is not that. On balance it’s still the best superhero show ever on conventional TV.

  9. Drew says:

    I liked the crossover in general. The two low points that come to mind are A. The fact that people tend to treat Patty like crap.
    And B. The gun magnet was super lame. It was as lame as earlier this year when Felicity hacked the construction equipment and controlled it remotely.
    I liked the group interaction a lot. It is always fun to see them together. Felicity and Cisco were great together.
    I like Hawkgirl and Hawkman.
    I think that they need to stop having Jay run out of the room in a huff. He just needs to stick around for an entire conversation at some point, or there is no reason for him to be on this Earth. They could be working to restore his powers, but they’re not. It’s weird.
    Overall, it was a solid hour. It did feel weird not having Laurel there though.

    • Liz says:

      I agree about Patty. I don’t mind her at all. I don’t understand the hate there. The gun magnet was silly but it was meant to be a bit of fun.

      I have to say though I didn’t even realise Laurel wasn’t there.

    • Tai says:

      I also don’t get the Patty hate. She’s not a bad character. But the majority of the hate is coming from the Westallen fans who think they should be together despite her fiancé dying like six to eight months before. It’s inevitable. But is Barry really supposed to sit around and wait for Iris to decide its time for them to be together?

      • Phoenix5634 says:

        That’s basically exactly it. Most of the Patty hate is coming from impatient and somewhat irrational Iris fans. They don’t seem to care that Iris’s fiancée just shot himself to save everyone, plus she told Barry to move on, after rejecting him twice before that.

      • Lily says:

        No one seems to want to acknowledge the fact that there some people in life who don’t end up dating anyone except for the person they end up with. They just don’t WANT to be with anyone else. He could have been one of those people.

        • Phoenix5634 says:

          Yeah well if Barry was that kind of guy, which he could be, then Iris shouldn’t have turned him away. Her fault. And it continues to be her fault, because she’s the one doing nothing, and Barry shouldn’t/ wouldn’t try again when the last 2 times went the way they did.

        • Ws says:

          So he should just stay single and be alone till she finally decides she wants to be with him? She rejected him repeatedly last season… should he just keep up his one-sided relationship? Why isnt Barry allowed to seek companionship elsewhere? Your comment is silly.

        • Isobel says:

          Barry’s never been referred to as religious or anything like that, I don’t see why he would suddenly have an issue with dating someone other than the girl he likes who has told him she needs space for a while.

        • casey says:

          If you continually ask someone out who doesn’t want to be with you , you become a stalker. If Barry were to keep after Iris it becomes creepy, stalker behavior (i thought he was kind of boaderline stalkery last season). To me, they were raised as siblings so them getting together is a bit creepy from the get go.

          • Mo says:

            What’s borderline stalking to sensible people is romantic to Iris’ fans. Go figure.

          • Z says:

            Its not stalking.. and he had his crush on her before they moved in together so its not creepy either

          • Mo says:

            @ Zsays

            Wow, I hope you’re kidding! His crush & moving in with the Wests while they were children isn’t a free pass for him to push himself on her when they’re adults AND she already rejected him multiple times.

        • BBussey says:

          The operative word there is “some”. Some small percentage of people do. Most people don’t.

  10. Rachel says:

    Barry had the best line about the way Malcolm enters a room 😂

  11. Alichat says:

    “Is that the only way this guy knows how to enter a room?” Best line of the episode! LOL

    • Allets says:

      That made me laugh. We know Oliver knows about the league’s stealth entrance since he was part of them, but why wasn’t the rest of Team Arrow bothered by this seeing they hadn’t seen Malcom as Ras in a while?! Anyway funny line.

    • Isobel says:

      Agree I had to giggle at that ;)

  12. ? says:

    Add Connor Hawke’s mom to the list of potential people in the grave? But I still think it’s Donna Smoak.

  13. amb1973 says:

    Raise your hand if you’re excited about Oliver’s Baby Mama drama. [Three people raise hands and two of them are Arrow/Flash EPs.] This is such a stupid storyline. Oh joy, let’s see Oliver bond with an annoying/resentful/precocious kid in-between fighting bad guys. Oliver at PTA meetings. FABULOUS.

    Idiot writers.

    • Ashley says:

      Slow clapping it out over this comment. Thank you!

    • Drew says:

      Okay, I don’t get this. When people complain about the time that is being spent on the Olicity stuff, they are yelled at and accused of hating character development. But when it is the kid, a lot of those same people are totally opposed to the idea of a personal story and want more action.
      I’m not talking about you here. I’m just talking about some general reactions I’ve seen. I don’t get it.

      • AdM says:

        You must be new here…anything that takes away from Olicity or WestAllen is thoroughly resented and bashed on this comment section. If it were Olicity having a baby there’d be non-stop celebrations & festivals to celebrate that development. I guess it’s to be expected from The CW viewership. I’m all for my heroes (Oliver & Barry) having some romance but “shippers’ really make it hard to enjoy those romances.

        • Liz says:

          As an Olicity fan I can tell you how wrong you are about this. Most Olicity fans don’t want them to have babies at all because kids don’t belong on Arrow. I am being genuinely serious about this. I love Olicity and have no desire to see them have kids and if they did, I’d hope it only happened on the very last episode. Please don’t lump all shippers into one group.

          • AdM says:

            My point was to support what Drew wrote…that anything that’s not Olicity/WestAllen related is bashed and criticized. God forbid Oliver/Barry ever have to have a personal plot that does not link in with the ‘ships’. What is so wrong with the character of Patty or Ray…MOST shippers will quickly jump on the “boring character/plot” defense to make it seem as if it’s not Olicity/WA related but it’s so obvious. It sucks that these shows are on The CW and some of us who don’t really care who the heroes date have to just tough it out with all the fangirls.
            Here we have a great crossover episode IMO but most of the comments here about Barry & Iris…

          • KatsMom says:

            @AdM — Well said! I skip the comment sections unless I’m genuinely curious about something specific (in this case to see if I was just tired and cranky watching the episode or whether the dialogue for Barry & Oliver really was from a bad buddy cop movie) because I can’t stand all the shipper comments. I like Barry and Iris. I’m interested in seeing Barry’s skills develop along with his relationship with Iris. It seems the end game is for Barry to finally have full control over his abilities, at which point Iris should be his lightning rod. It’s going to take time to get there, but we’ll get there eventually. It’s only Season 2. I’m in no rush for them to get to some happily ever after place, especially given the way things have developed with Iris’s storyline. It would have been weird for her to just shrug off Eddie’s death and jump on Barry. But reading comments from WestAllen fans makes me want to start rooting for Barry’s death, especially given that Wally is apparently waiting in the wings (he’s always been my preferred Flash anyway…).

        • amb1973 says:

          You really expose your own issues when you oppose statements no one has made while ignoring actual statements. I do not want ANY KIDS on the show. I will give baby Sara a pass, because she’s barely visible, but I don’t want an Olicity kid on the show anymore than I want ANY kid on the show. What adult show can you name that didn’t start out with a kid that was better off for adding a kid later? None. I also hate angst. Arrow used up every bit of patience I had for angst last season. No more.

        • datdudemurphy says:

          You described it perfectly

      • amb1973 says:

        You know, not everything is about Olicity. That goes for both pro- and con- Olicity people. I hate Ray, and that has nothing to do with Olicity. I think the stunts have mostly sucked through S3 and into S4, and that has nothing to do with Olicity. I think Oliver was dumb as a doorknob in S3, and that has nothing to do with Olicity. I have no interest in kids on this adult show or general secret child/baby mama storylines, and that has nothing to do with Olicity. I don’t like kids on adult shows, particularly adult action shows. Period. I don’t want an Olicity kid on the show, either.

        • AdM says:

          Nothing to do with Olicity…Lol Yeah Right!!

          • amb1973 says:

            People breathe, and go to the bathroom, and pet their dogs, and that also has nothing to do with Olicity. Tell me what adult show that didn’t feature kids improved after the addition of a kid?

            Also, I don’t appreciate being called a liar. You are much more obsessed with Olicity than any other poster here seems to be. Do you secretly love them? Because you sure seem to think about them a lot.

    • John NYC says:

      The kid looked rather normal.

      • herman1959 says:

        Why wouldn’t he, he has two human bio parents – Oliver has no “powers.”

        • John NYC says:

          I meant behaviorally versus the expectation above he’d be some sort of problem child. “an annoying/resentful/precocious kid”.

          • amb1973 says:

            He was on camera for ten seconds. From those ten seconds you got that he’s going to be great and interesting while interacting with is PTSD-afflicted out-of-the-blue superhero parent, did you? You must read fictional characters’ minds and personalities. And again, name one adult show that didn’t start with kids that was improved by the addition of a kid.

          • John NYC says:

            You projected a boatload off my original remark that he seemed okay. Too much imho.

          • John NYC says:

            A? LOL, you got all that from: “The kid looked rather normal.”


    • KatsMom says:

      I don’t understand all the complaining about Oliver having a kid here. The kid was on screen for 10 seconds yesterday. You have no idea how the storyline will actually develop. It may just be a reveal and then something that weighs on Oliver’s mind with him ultimately deciding that he needs to keep the kid safe by staying out of his life. He’d be as invisible as baby Sara at that point, who you claim to have no issues with. You’re just making a ton of assumptions that the writers are going to completely derail the show with absolutely nothing to back it up as far as I can tell.

      • amb1973 says:

        I have all of season 3 to back it up. The writers are all the same. The preview for tonight’s episode shows a teary-eyed Oliver and a weepy Felicity having a confrontation, i.e., more angst. Kids on adult shows suck. This kid on this adult show is going to suck. (Also, Sara is the baby of a supporting character, not the main character. Big difference.)

        • John NYC says:

          “an annoying/resentful/precocious kid”

          TON of assumptions right there.

        • KatsMom says:

          I agree that Season 3 was written horribly and tried my patience at every turn. If it weren’t for all the crossovers with The Flash, I would have walked away at the end of the season. I even agree that there’s nothing to look forward to with regard to Oliver finding out about his kid. But, I just don’t see the point complaining about it yet. We’ve gotten about one scene per year on this storyline so far. It could be that the writers are going to continue the storyline at that snail’s pace and this year’s scene will be over and forgotten in less time than it’s taken you to complain about this kid the past couple of days.

      • herman1959 says:


        • herman1959 says:

          Again, just chill until we actually SEE it!

          • amb1973 says:

            Name one adult/genre show that did not start with children that was improved by the addition of children. One. (And please don’t tell me how to respond to something. My responses are not up to you.)

  14. VJ says:

    I liked the episode very much, loved the snark and the “surprises”. And a great introduction of the Legend characters. They showed a trailer in one of the breaks and I thought they were some new scenes (with Rip Hunter). Can someone confirm that or am I imagining things now? Thanks in advance.
    (on a different note, slightly ot: what is with all the shipping? I have to scroll through dozens of comments until I find a comment about the actual topic, everytime I read an article about Arrow/Flash/OUAT. Just watch and enjoy. No need for all the fighting in comment sections…)

  15. James says:

    Am I the only one who thought it was a little underwhelming? I love The Flash and I used to watch Arrow until Season 3, but something about the Hawkgirl/Hawkman, ‘find your true self’ was a little bit cheesy for me (and not the right kind of cheesy The Flash usually is). I also wonder if ‘Part 2’ is going to close the bridge between White Canary and her new team from ‘Legends of Tomorrow’. I’m dying to know how all the characters are going to get together.

    • amb1973 says:

      Neither Sara nor Ray are in the crossover at all. (And I think the Hawks are ridiculous and those actors are not good.)

    • Liz says:

      It wasn’t as good as the last crossover.

      • Phoenix5634 says:

        I thought the first half was pretty great. Can’t wait to see the 2nd half. Remember, it’s supposed to play more like a movie, we’ve only seen half so far. Don’t judge the whole crossover just yet.

      • Sil says:

        Well, I loved it. It was action, drama, lots of humor, snark and fun. I loved All the character interactions. I loved the small part of Darkh. Loved the new characters. It was a greasy cross over. Probably, the best so far.

    • Nellie says:

      I was underwhelmed, as well. But maybe I’m tainted by the comics — I always thought the Hawkman/Hawkgirl reincarnation/soulmate stuff was awful, and its inclusion here made my eyes roll.

      • Phoenix5634 says:

        Yeah I’m not sure I’m liking how they’re modifying from the comics this episode. And that’s sad becuz I’ve only read summaries of the comics lol. Vandals origin is alright here, acceptable I guess…. But could have tied him to hawkman/hawkgirl without tying his power to them. The part where he gains power from killing hawk-man/hawkgirl is terrible. And I know it’s minor, but does no one notice that hawkman/Hawkgirl were supposed to be like an Egyptian prince/ princess but don’t look at all Egyptian, or even from the same culture lol. Just saying. Oh and if they keep just making Vandal disappear everytime a mortal would die from his wounds, and then just have him come back to show he survived, that’s gunna get old really quick. It already is to me.

  16. So will Iris actually appear on screen to say those lines or Kreisberg will say them for her in previews?

  17. Ashley says:

    I’ll admit: having severely disliked Shantal’s character on One Tree Hill, I didn’t think I’d like Patty. I think I even commented about the “wrong” casting on the announcement post. But I stand corrected. I really like Shantal as Patty and I love her chemistry with Grant, and their characters are adorable together.
    What I don’t like is the end scene for tonight’s crossover potentially introducing Oliver’s son. I know it happens in the comics, but right now, it just seems unnecessary for Arrow. Not happy about that.

    • Liz says:

      Oliver’s son storyline does feel kinda pointless when he’s not even Connor Hawke.

      • Ws says:

        He could still wind up being Connor.. they might be faking us out on that point.

        • amb1973 says:

          He’s not. Connor in the comics is biracial, and when they cast a white mom there was a huge backlash about whitewashing her and Connor. This kid is definitely not Connor, although he was probably originally intended to be. (He could be Connor’s father, though.)

          • herman1959 says:

            Yes, I like the idea of him being Connor’s father. Excellent.

          • Z says:

            Just cause he is bi-racial in the comics doesnt mean he has to be in the tv show. They have altered peoples racial makeup on this show already.. Iris is white in the comics and black on the show…. I’d rather he be Connor than them bringing in some other kid.

          • amb1973 says:

            What I’m telling you is that when the mother showed up in S2, there was a huge freakout about whitewashing Sandra Hawke, and thereby Connor, and since then the EPs have made it very clear that this kid is not Connor and his mother is not Sandra. He was probably INTENDED to be Connor, but the EPs backed down on making him Connor. Other media outlets have reported their names as William and Samantha.

        • Sil says:

          Arrow writes its own show’s story lines and adapts some of the comic characterizations into new TV show format. I think it’s fresh and new. The show has its own story to tell, not a clone of what’s in the comics. I’ve loved season 4 so far. And. Looking forward to tonite’s episode and beyond.

  18. Liz says:

    Great episode! Some great Barry and Oliver friendship/team mates moments. It was good to see Oliver more involved in the stunts again which he hasn’t really been getting the chance to do on Arrow. Loved Olicity. So cute. Felicity/Barry continue to be adorable as do Cisco/Felicity. I enjoy all those different pairings as friends. I actually thought the Hawks were pretty poor and this doesn’t make me want to watch Legends at all. Wish there had been more Iris too.

  19. Lily says:

    I need to know why the writers seem to hate Iris so much. It feels really weird now, how she gets nothing to do on the show that she’s on, and once again, Patty of all people has more screentime. What is the issue here? I seriously need to know. Why do her and Barry not even seem like they’re friends anymore, and why does it feel like Season 1 never happened as far as Barry/Iris are concerned? Can somebody please ask the producers about THAT? It’s baffling.

    • Liz says:

      I think they’re doing a real slow burn with Barry/Iris. I wouldn’t worry about Patty at all. There’s still the rest of the season, I can see them building to more Barry/Iris friendship moments, esp in his times of need. Just wait!

    • Dee says:

      Patty took the L this week but you are still complaining. Would you have prefered for Iris to shoot Wells?

      • FashionMaven says:

        I think she’s referring to the season as a whole, not just tonight. I didn’t think Patty took an L tonight – except that folks are lying to her still and her not knowing the truth about Wells (that’s Joe’s fault) is what set her up to fail. But it wasn’t her fault really. I did flinch at how fast she shot him (especially given today’s climate with police shooting unarmed men), but she must have thought the syringe was a weapon.

        I do miss the Iris/Barry friendship scenes – it’s jarring that the show has pretty much dropped them. And it does make me wonder if something is going on behind the scenes. CP deserves better than this, imo.

    • Ws says:

      Well her fiance died essentially because of Barry.. that tends to put a damper on a friendship.

    • Mo says:

      What’s baffling is expecting endgame relationship now when it’s obvious it’ll take several seasons to get there. Go read the comics until the show is ready to give you WestAllen.

    • John NYC says:

      They could be a little trapped in their own characterization. Once she had stopped fan-girling the Flash as a reporter her appearance at Flash moments became unnecessary and as she has her own emotional life to deal with what with her lover’s death and repeated rejection of Barry her only connection is a remote one through Joe, who as a cop has a function in the action much like Caitlin does as biotech, Cisco as tech Patty as cop etc.

      That puts the character at the far border of the central action of the show, a tough place to write about within the time constraints of a television show. Throw in the necessity of the larger cast for a crossover, Arrow people plus the newbies and peripheral (at the moment) characters get left offscreen.

      The question the writers would have is WHY would she be somewhere? Outside of a crowd scene I suppose….

  20. Ashley says:

    The only thing it was missing was more Iris. Otherwise it was awesome. Loved the Oliver/Barry bromance, meeting the Hawks, Barry & Felicity’s friendship, Cisco, and Olicity.

  21. parstl says:

    I liked the episode overall but I agree with Steven below that too many people are learning the secret identities of the heroes. Can’t understand why people hate on Patty…good to see Barry in a reciprocal relationship. Love Iris but that whole thing was getting old last season. Besides, the writers-producers will hold that Barry-Iris trump card to boost ratings in a year or two. I find the Jay Garrick arc distracting. Hope Arrow gets back to storyline of original key team members…Oliver, Digger and Felicity.

  22. Phoenix5634 says:

    So who else thinks Star Labs should seriously start locking the doors lol, like cmon its getting ridiculous how easily people just walk into a building like that. Better hurry too, before Savage finds out about velocity-6…or any villain really.

    • Ws says:

      Well Star Labs really only has three people working there.. which is kinda silly for such a big company… and no security guards.

      • John NYC says:

        Didn’t the place sort of go bankrupt when the thing blew up and left a shambles behind? That outside establishing shot always looks sort of burnt and a bit tattered from the explosion of the accelerator.

        Or at least that facility was never repaired…

      • Phoenix5634 says:

        True, but you’d think a building that has a particle accelerator inside would be capable of having magnetic locks, keycard access or something.

        • John NYC says:

          Well sure. Before the particle accelerator exploded all over the city anyway……

          The place in the exterior far shots still looks rather dilapidated. Some of those horn things raggedly broken off, sooty exterior etc.

          • Phoenix5634 says:

            Yeah but they’ve repaired it enough to have security cameras, you’d think locks would be step 1 before cameras lol.

          • John NYC says:

            Good point. Especially after the first dozen or so people wandered in….,

          • Phoenix5634 says:

            Lol yeah like Jay walked in as Cisco was saying he’d upgraded their security and no one else should just be walking in… And now Patty just walks in and shoots Wells… Seriously get locks so atleast the person has to break in, and you might notice that before they surprise you lol.

  23. Phoenix5634 says:

    You know what would be a good fight. Dhark vs Savage. What would happen if Dhark tried to drain Savage?

  24. JC1 says:

    I liked it, mostly. I gave it a B. I liked the Hawks, and Barry and Oliver are always a great team up.
    But am I the only one that finds Vandal Savage completely unimpressive? I’m really kind of dismayed by this, because he’s supposed to play a big role in Legends, and I didn’t think he was scary at all.
    Also, I’m really getting tired of Jay being a total grump about everything.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      The thing that bugged me the most about Vandal Savage and his immortality is both times he “died” this episode, they simply had him disappear and then come back eventually. And I think the idea that his power or life force is increased every time he kills hawkman/hawkgirl is pretty lame. His comic origins are better.

  25. Vex says:

    Watching Harrison watch that syringe and wondering how long till a normal person, possibly him, gets injected

  26. nashieb says:

    Connor!!! That is all

  27. Pat says:

    It was great!!!!! I feel bad for Cisco because Kendra will be getting her princess mojo back so doesn’t this mean she will be once again in love with her Hawkman? Vandal Savage is immortal how the heck do they deal with this. Is there a certain weapon out there that he will not be immuned to? So many questions but it is getting exciting and I cannot wait until I watch Flash.

  28. Sarah says:

    I liked the first part of the crossover and that Vandal guy is very creepy :)
    I was worried for a minute that Wells was gonna died but thank god for Velocity 6.
    I feel bad for Patty because she was doing her job and if nobody inform her how would she have know that was Wells-2?
    I hope Barry thinks about what to do with her because Zoom might user against him.
    The kid a sure thing and i get why people think its a waste of time but this information was already in early seasons with Oliver mom paying the girl to lie and get out of Olivet life so it was gonna happen one way or another.
    I don’t think this is going to take to much space on Arrow because with Dark on the hunt, Oliver has better keep his secret kid and his mother away.

  29. Phoenix5634 says:

    Thank God that Wells didn’t die!

  30. liame says:

    Great episode, looking forward to Arrow’s episode.

  31. Gerald says:

    Malcolm….. I appreciated his insight into Vandal Savage, but didn’t like how he and his assassins could just pop into the new Arrow cave. And did he already know about Barry being the Flash, because he does now…

  32. Ann says:

    Okay…in the Spring, we’re going to get to have Supergirl on Mondays, The Flash on Tuesdays, Arrow on Wednesdays, and Legends of Tomorrow on Thursdays! Nearly a full week of Bertlanti-verse comic book shows! Awesome!

  33. Joey Padron says:

    First part of crossover episode was really good and surprised about the ending. Can’t wait for part 2 on Arrow tonight!

  34. Kristina says:

    Enjoyed it for the most part. Really didn’t care for the actor they cast as Hawkman, but honestly no one would’ve measured up to Michael Shanks for me, so it may not be his fault. I found the running back and forth from one city to the other a little distracting, and although it’s always so fun to see all the characters together it also makes the episodes so crowded that I feel like we never get to focus on any of them for any real length of time. And I’m so dreading the whole secret kid thing. But all in all, very fun to watch! Looking forward to part 2.

  35. Paul Wagner says:

    Patty is just trigger-happy, Wells wasn’t threatening her and she stupidly shot him anyway. I know Weather Wizard will be in next weeks ep, wonder how many shots she’ll try to do then. Just get rid of her

    • Z says:

      Well she was under the impression that he was a dangerous wanted fugitive.

    • John NYC says:

      Known murderer coming toward you with a weapon (that injector looks a lot like a hand weapon and with a murderer you’re aiming a gun at and they advance why take the chance?)? Had she been “trigger happy” she’d have emptied her handgun into him, and she didn’t.

  36. brenna says:

    Incredibly fun and entertaining hour. Loved all the humor and action. I enjoy both shows but I could watch Oliver and Barry together every week. They are so much fun. Both casts are awesome together. There were a few LOL moments. Can’t wait for the second half tonight.

  37. Luis says:

    OK, here’s what I’m thinking. In the comics, The Reverse-Flash killed Iris and tries to kill Barry’s fiance Fiona, prompting Flash to go after and eventually break Reverse-Flash’s neck, ending up with Flash going on trial for murder. Given Barry’s tour through the future in the S1 finale included a glimpse that appeared to be Barry in prison, it makes me think things don’t look so good for Patty.

    • Z says:

      Fiona was a vapid socialite… nothing like Patty… and that murder storyline in the comics went on forever and led to the book being cancelled and the character killed off… so hopefully they wont follow that.

    • John NYC says:

      “what I’m thinking. In the comics” and that’s the issue: NOT the comics.

  38. robandco says:

    Hawkgirl backstory looks awesome. I wasn’t exactly pumped for LoT because of Captain Cold (who has been one of the lowest points of The Flash in both seasons) but the other characters are interesting.
    The crossover was great. A bit confusing since I have yet to catch up on Arrow (stopped at season 2 finale) but still very simple to follow, great job on that part.
    I really like Patty but it is time for her to learn Barry’s secret (I just hope it doesn’t happen on part 2 since I don’t watch Arrow). They’re dragging it and it’s unhealthy for their relationship and for the general plot IMO. She’s cute and a better fit for Barry for now. Iris needs to grieve and date before they go there. Barry shouldn’t be the rebound guy if they want things to work out between them.

  39. ABC says:

    From episode 1 last year, Cisco has been my favorite character. His baseball stat retort to Hawkman, “So you’re O for 206 and you still think your Kendra’s best bet?” had me laughing (loudly) for a good three minutes. Classic, even for Cisco.

    • John NYC says:

      Plus TOTALLY on point. Glaringly obvious that having died 206 times in a row a positive attitude and the same damn plan was not going to cut it.

  40. Phoenix5634 says:

    Idea for next years’ cross over episodes…Flash/Supergirl/ Arrow too if possible, with Grodd/ Solovar , and Gorilla City. Or King Shark and the hinted at, Atlantis storyline. It’d be cool a 3 part crossover. And maybe even tie it lightly to the LoTs episode at the end of the week.