The Flash Recaplet: Good Buzz?

I wasn’t planning to write about The Flash this week, due to a lotta other TV going on this Tuesday night, but the episode was so especially (and surpris- ingly?) entertaining, it begged for comment.

There was a lot of good going on here, as Felicity and Ray visited Central City just in time to lay witness to The Bug-Eyed Bandit’s reign of terror. Though guest star Emily Kinney was given precious little to do besides sit in a chair and engage in wordplay, her tiny robotic army was kinda fun and sufficiently menacing.

Then again, maybe that’s my Cisco-level aversion to bees speaking. (I first got stung on the tuchus when I was 7. Still scarred.)

But more importantly to the bigger Arrow/Flash conversation, I’d be curious to hear a Flash-only viewer’s take on Felicity/Ray, because I suspect that they came off as kind of adorable to the uninitiated. Vlada Gelman and I were IMing during the episode and agreed that Ray simply “fits” better on the lighter, brighter Flash, while Emily Bett Rickards was afforded the opportunity in a while to play the Felicity we fell in nerd-love with, away from all the “gloom and doom” of Starling City (as the character herself put it).

This was also a highly quotable episode, from the “It’s a bird/It’s a plane” nod to Brandon Routh’s previous superhero turn, to Eddie marveling, “Wow. So everyone but Iris knows,” to Felicity finding a perverse joy in acquiring her own nemesis.

All that said, the awkward dinner date — while wholly designed to be awkward — was kind of hard to watch, if only because it’s a shame to see the otherwise solid Iris/Eddie romance get damaged by Barry’s secret. And Eddie’s, “Or what?” at the end was just cold. Iris deserves better.

Another quibble I have is Cisco’s “dreams,” though perhaps somebody better schooled in time travel fiction can point out anther instance where someone “remembered” their alternate existence. Me, I just need to hear the “science” that (theoretically) explains such a thing. Then again, it made for a great tag, as Cisco shared: “Dr. Wells is the Reverse-Flash. And he killed me.”

OK, I am off to fry those other, aforementioned TV fish. What did you think of “All-Star Team-Up”?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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157 Comments
  1. Drew says:

    Felicity didn’t cry!!!
    She and Ray were both way more fun in Central City. The plot of this episode was kinda like a throw away Smallville plot, but there was a lot of fun going on and good character stuff. Another solid week.

    • elena says:

      If she cry is for something she It is about something, what has happened and is happening Arrow bad this season also because of how dark this being the season

      • Drew says:

        But every single episode? Sometimes it seems like every scene of every episode. Felicity doesn’t need such a cheap method of making us feel for her.

        • Josh says:

          I never wanted Ollicity for this reason. Felicity has become a shell of her former self. This was the first time Felicity was semi-defined by being Felicity. The character has a lot of issues recently, and it stems from 1) Her relationship with Oliver 2) The writers fearful of giving her real flaws again. I miss season 1/beginning of season 2 Felicity.

          • Drew says:

            Agreed.

          • Sal says:

            Felicity is a shell of her former self because she has been assigned as prop duty to Ray Palmer for the whole season. Plus the season has been depressing as hell. Don’t blame it on Olicity. Yawn.

          • Josh says:

            Sorry Sal, but it is Ollicity’s fault. She is Ray’ prop because she needs to be for Ollicity drama. She cries over Oliver, she becomes this new character who is his love interest and loses a lot of what makes her interesting. Ollicity is to blame. This is what happens when a female character is written by men who don’t need to write female characters. They’re safest when they aren’t love interests(Laurel, Iris, Helena, and Felicity) because they stop becoming people and become objects to all involved.

            Did Felicity and her mom even pass the Bretchel test last time they were together? It’s pathetic. #FREEFELICITY.

            I don’t want Ollicity to happen, not ever. I want Felicity to have her own storyline. There is so many interesting avenues to take with her but they keep choosing to go “And then she finds a superhero and he lurves her…” or “And then she says something inspirational to a male and he goes kick butt” Give her more to do. Let her become her own person again…And honestly, the best way for that to happen is to put an end to Ollicity.

            There is no worse thing to be than a love interest in shows like these.

          • Jill says:

            Pls olicity is not even happening on arrow. Felicity is dating Ray. I think using Felicity to prop characters like Ray, laurel has made arrow not so interesting this season. Arrows problem is focusing on way too many characters this season.

          • Josh says:

            Laurel has made Arrow not interesting? What??? How can a supporting character make a show uninteresting.

            And of course Ollicity is happening. After that goes on with Felicity is based off Ollicty, hence the problem. Felicity is defined by Ollicty not Felicity

            Listen, I know shippers tend to be blind or tend to blame the other female(it’s always the female, even if she’s the only one in the love triangle i.e. Elena) but to blame this season’s short comings on Laurel is so nonsensical it hurts. I’m not even a Laurel fan but wow..

          • Meg says:

            So women can’t be interesting if they’re in love or have a boyfriend? I don’t think this has that much to do with olicity, more with the writers using her as a prop for a spinoff show the network is pushing. But I also would have felt like it was rushed if they did do a olicity story if they didn’t show her in at least one relationship before hand. Oliver has been in several “relationships”/triangles. While she has not, being played as the IT/tech geek, had any. No I don’t count Barry. I agree with Jill, they are focusing on too many characters this season, and too many story lines. There hasn’t been any time to do the more fun filler shows in between. I feel they could pull off olicity without giving up the Felicity we love if they did it right and not make everything so dark, even though this is a darker series, if they don’t cram everything into one season.

          • sporting4231 says:

            Agree. I never wanted Olicity either. I wanted her to be smart enough to see Oliver for the damaged goods he was and to fall for someone else. I saw her as the anchor for Oliver and Diggle’s romances. It would have been fun to give her a boyfriend who was in the dark about her Arrow involvement who then started to suspect she’s Arrow because she’s never around when he is. He could have also been a foil to remind Ollie and Diggle what they’re fighting for. Instead they made her arm candy, gave her convenient amnesia about Oliver’s dating record in Season One so that in Season Three she suddenly realizes its dangerous to be someone he loves. Gag. This season has been the more of Felicity’s dating life and less of Arrow, consequently I rarely watch it. PLEASE do not ruin Flash by moving Palmer or Felicity to Flash – keep them away. Far away.

          • KatsMom says:

            @ Josh — Well said! Completely agree with all your comments regarding Felicity.

          • Addie says:

            OMGoodness Josh…I agree with all your comments, you have summarized what I’ve always said about Olicity ruining the Felicity character. Thank you

        • Josh says:

          @Meg Whoever said women can’t be interesting if they’re in love or have a boyfriend? The point was a female character can’t be a real character if she’s a ‘love interest’ and nothing more. The fact is that’s what is happening here. Instead of exploring Felicity’s character, we’re exploring Felicity’s love life but it’s not even defined by Felicity. It’s defined by not being with Oliver or by helping Ray become a hero, but what kind of journey is Felicity going on? How is her character changing other than getting closer to being toward Oliver?

          I’ve brought this point up before but it would have been interesting to see Felicity get a mentor(maybe, awesomely, female) who takes her under her wing and shows Felicity there is a lot she can do with her talents(including save lives) that don’t include hiding in the shadows and dealing with gloom and doom.

          Felicity is the perfect character to explore something like that. She’s light and hopeful, and someone who believes in ‘the right thing’…But instead her character gets a new job with a guy who stalks her. And her whole point isn’t about her new job but about these two men.

          She’s a love interest and not a character. Just like with Iris, who isn’t treated like a real person but a love interest. And Laurel before her. Who they are doesn’t matter, but what they feel and how others feel about them(to the point of how she feels about them still) is what does. Joe’s either deciding what Iris can or cannot know or talking to Barry about his feelings for Iris. It’s about Joe or it’s about Barry but it’s never truly about Iris.

          Of course being a ‘love interest’ doesn’t demote you to this status, but when the writing for female characters tend to be weak, then yes…something like this happens.

    • Drew says:

      Okay, my attempt at the science of time travel…
      When Barry went back, he overlapped with his past self, and then merged. What if it wasn’t a clean time jump somehow and rather than erase one timeline, he just recorded over it?

      Did that work? At all?

      • Jason says:

        This would make the best sense; seeing as we don’t really get an explanation on what happened to the timeline Barry erased.

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        That’s the best I can come up with, yeah :-/

        Kinda reminded me of the FRINGE/Peter Never Existed storyline, how people started to remember him.

        • Drew says:

          Like Olivia on Fringe, Cisco does have inter dimensional abilities in the comics. That could be related.

        • Katherine215 says:

          Only Olivia remembered Peter, though, and that was because of the cortexiphan (I thought).

          • neb8fan says:

            Walter remembered him, too. I think September said it was because they loved him so much that they would not let him go. So you could say it is connected to strong emotions and I would think being killed after being called a son-like figure would carry strong emotions.

          • Katherine215 says:

            Did Walter remember him in season 4 though? I’m pretty sure he didn’t remember the timeline until the little boy Observer in season 5 did something to him. Peter wasn’t erased because they loved him so much, but only Olivia remembered the original timeline until the very end of the series.
            .
            But anyway, that’s not the point of this and I’m getting off topic. Basically, I agree Cisco could remember due to the strong emotions related to the events of the other timeline and I’m just nitpicking Fringe. :)

          • Andi says:

            Walter accepted him but didn’t remember him until the last few episodes when Michael gave him all the memories of the original blue timeline.

            Two years later and we’re back in a Fringe discussion- this makes me so happy :)

        • Lee says:

          I was just going to comment on the science per Fringe logic too. I just recently re-watched the season one episode where Olivia is experiencing “waking dreams”. It’s as Walter explained,a sense of deja vu where in the body hits a look at the ‘path not followed’ , view of time that looks like branches,not a straight line.
          That’s what I got with the Cisco thing… residual effects of Barry time travel makes the deja vu ish memories stronger. .. especially because he was killed

  2. Missy Kelly says:

    I don’t know. I’m in LA and it hasn’t aired here yet but I’m glad you took the time. Makes me want to watch it live. Thanks

  3. elena says:

    FELICITY IS THE BEST!!!

  4. Josh says:

    Man poor Iris, is there a character on tv treated with such sexist disregard?

    • Nicholas says:

      I concur…its becoming tiring. How can you be the female lead yet be left out of the show or disrespected by all the men on the show. The writers need to remove their heads out of their colons.

    • kath says:

      It’s getting ridiculous. This isn’t the 18th century. Come to think of it, in the 18th century women were treated better.

      Only Eddie seems to feel bad about lying to her, which makes Eddie >>>>>>>> Barry & Joe.

  5. James says:

    Iris deserves better? It’s like everyone is forgetting how just earlier this season Iris was keeping secrets from him to do with The Flash. And now she suspects he is? And decides to move out for a few days? That’s crazy. He deserves better. Her character is so hard to watch.

    • Josh says:

      Nothing you wrote makes sense…

    • Elle says:

      Wow it’s almost as if you have issues following narrative… oh, wait.

    • John says:

      Thanks for your comment about Iris! Fans agree, she deserves MUCH better. I hate the way they’re treating her. Not telling her is putting her in way more danger. and it’s just downright disrespectful. She’s 25, not 5.

    • Leeeeeeeee says:

      I completely agree… Iris was a total Bword in this ep, even Barry tried to help and gave her a plausible reason behind it.. more or less so everybody that knows,found out on their own or was told for a reason. Maybe they are writing her character stupidly or whatever but she is a reporter and you mean to tell me you cant tell your best friend of forever is the flash who your basically obsessed with… but then again she “never knew” Barry was in love with her. I think Barry and Eddie deserve better but alas comic books so we already know how this is gonna go

  6. Amy says:

    Thank you for saying Iris deserves better! Its really appreciated. The continual lying to her is getting ridiculous and frustrating. How do they expect her to react when she doesn’t know the truth?

  7. Kyrah says:

    I agree that Iris deserves better. Lies on top of lies. It’s disgusting.

  8. James D says:

    I thought it was entertaining but certainly not the best episode, I didn’t find the writing to be especially tight. The Cisco dream was beyond absurd even if you take the approach that when Barry time traveled he split the timeline forming an alternate reality it still wouldn’t explain Cisco’s dream because this Cisco never experienced the confrontation with Wells. (my brain hurts :)) I’ll chalk it up to moving the plot forward, but it definitely bothered me. At least Felicity wasn’t crying and scorning Ollie on his life choices.

  9. theschnauzers says:

    Matt, to answer your time travel question, there are multiple variations of how time resets might work, and the idea that a person could “remember” an altered reality is totally within the realm of possibility. Continuum and Doctor Who are two recent examples. So it makes sense to me that Cisco’s dreams were of the original reality that got reset.

  10. Brandon says:

    Iris most definitely deserves better. The show is doing a lousy job writing for Iris and having everyone treat her like a child is hard to watch. I eventually want Barry and Iris together, but to be honest, he doesn’t deserve someone as awesome as her right now.

  11. Emily says:

    Poor Cisco is always the one in danger, but I love that we’re seeing a hint of his Vibe powers with the dreams he’s having.

    And poor, poor Iris. I love her so much, and I’m so sick of the show and its characters treating her like this. She better find out (on her own!) soon or… YOU KNOW WHAT.

  12. Jenn says:

    I’ve thought from day one that Ray would have been a better fit on Flash than Arrow, and this really confirmed it. And as much as I have come to appreciate Felicity as the morals/heart of Team Arrow, it was nice to see one of my favorite characters on TV not having that burden and getting to be lighter and funnier again.

    • Heidi says:

      I agree. She was back to her nerdy/geeked-out fun self in CC. Too angsty with the Arrow. “I have a nemesis. I kinda like it.” And the although the dialogue wasn’t especially tight, it helped to define characters in a less stressful atmosphere (Ray and Cisco, Felicity and Ray).

  13. On Cisco being able to remember an alternate timeline… Barry could have made this possible because he changed the way he saved the city. Instead of stopping the tsunami, he captured the storm guy before that happened.

  14. Elle says:

    Joe’s comment about Eddie only getting a say so on what Iris can and cannot know as long as Eddie isn’t her husband was disgusting. What year is it? The writers should be ashamed of themselves. Also Joe is turning out to be the real, manipulative asshole, huh? He’s making everyone lie for him and these pathetic “grown” men are listening to him? Just sad. Iris West deserves better from the so-called people who love and care for her and I can’t wait until she finds out and gives them all hell. Also as much as I love Felicity she was also a huge hypocrite this episode. So Barry has to be honest with Cisco and Caitlin but it’s best he continues to lie to Iris? In what world does that make sense?

    • Carla Krae says:

      It was the father vs. boyfriend, and Eddie wanted to know when he’d get more say than Joe he father. Joe said when you’re her husband. Which is fair and he’s right. Eddie is only the boyfriend right now – and boyfriends come and go.

      • Josh says:

        Ummm…our it’s Iris’ choice. It isn’t up to her husband or her father to say prevent her from investigating the disappearance of her mentor. It’s her choice. No one makes Iris’ decisions for her but Iris. But Joe’s comments were disgustingly sexist.

        • msemmyjones says:

          ?? They weren’t arguing about her investigation, they were arguing about whether or not to tell her about Barry. How can she have a choice about something she doesn’t know? And really, it’s not up to either of them as it’s not their secret to tell. It’s Barry’s.

    • Addie says:

      Nothing disgusting about that at all, It’s very refreshing to see an old fashioned dad on TV who is doing all he can to protect his daughter. Joe was right as long as Eddie’s still a bf he has no say. Bf come and go, nothing sexist about a father wanting to protect her daughter.This is Barry’s secret to share and no one should be pressuring him to!
      Eddie is the one acting like a child…he can barely function around Iris because of this secret..how did he even get to be detective.

  15. NA says:

    It was bad. Kinney’s lines were terrible. Felicity encouraging the lying to Iris was terrible and wholly inconsistent with her begging Barry to tell the truth to Cisco. I only watch the Flash, Arrow can keep her.
    Danielle Panabaker is the worst actor on the show, I actually wondered how she got the job until I heard she was friends with AJK. I am dreading the killer frost arc, she doesn’t have the chops to pull it off.
    Everyone lying to Iris is a strain on the show. Patton is a delight when they (albeit rarely) allow her access to the main plot but unfortunately they seem to want to drag the Barry/Iris/Eddie triangle out. In the comic the good stuff happens after their marriage, they’re doing a big disservice to the show by trying to drag this out Ross and Rachel style. Cisco was the lone light in a sea of bad acting, misogyny and paternalism this episode.

    • Lucy says:

      Agreed with everything you said. I thought the episode was terrible. The fact that its a joke that Iris is the only one who doesn’t know Barry’s secret is a huge turn off for me. Why are they trying to get me to hate Joe? He basically said that if Eddie married Iris he’ll make decisions for her. Like she’s a child. Or his property. Which is gross. Why is Barry, a grown man, not just making an executive decision about his secret and telling his best friend the truth? Why is everyone’s deception being treated like a joke? I don’t find it funny, and actually feel like it does a disservice to all of their characters. I wish the writers would have spent the time they gave to Felicity and Ray (characters that I do enjoy on Arrow) to provide character development to Iris. Credit to Candice Patton for making the most of the very few scenes that they do give her each episode as she has the ability to do so much more. Iris West is an iconic character and should be treated as such, not infantilized.
      I’ve been trying to give Danielle Panabaker a chance but I’m sorry to say that IMO, her acting leaves something to be desired. She’s gotten slightly better at pronouncing medical terminology, but when she couldn’t even pretend to give Cisco CPR I started laughing. I do not buy her as a doctor at all and it kind of took me out of the scene.

  16. Catherine says:

    I agree, Iris deserves the truth. She has been honest with everyone this entire time, and all they do is lie to her face. Eddie is her boyfriend of over a year who she is living with, she should not accept his lies. Why move forward with someone you can’t trust? Iris West deserves better.

  17. jrex says:

    My only quibble is why Barry didn’t vibrate thru the bees like he did with the bomb and the truck in the Trickster episode?

  18. Tai says:

    I really need them to just tell Iris or let her figure it out or something already! Because this is just ridiculous. The fact that everyone is lying to her at this point is just sad. It’s getting to the point where I dread seeing her on screen because I know that they’re all going to be trying to cover stuff up when she clearly knows something is happening.

    Then again I also dread when she actually finds out because it’s just going to be drama and angst that they really don’t have time for right now. Not with the promise of Grodd and Firestorm/Flash/Arrow teamups on the horizon.

    • Drew says:

      The finale might be a good time for Iris to find out. Then she can leave for a few months and come back having put some space between her and the drama.

  19. Nick says:

    HUGE QUESTION-

    I’m all caught up on Flash, but I haven’t seen any of season 3 for Arrow. Would this episode spoil a lot for Arrow?

  20. steven says:

    I can now see people on the internet spoofing this episode with soundclips of Nicolas Cage shouting “NOT THE BEES!”.

  21. Melinda says:

    Joe, Barry and Eddie’s lying to Iris is just wrong. Everyone and their mama knows Barry is the Flash. If Barry’s secret was closely guarded and it wasn’t just Iris not in the know that would be one thing, however, that is not the case. Barry has willingly shared with an endless list of people(including those from Arrow universe as well) that he is the Flash.They need to stop with the we can’t tell Iris because “Iris needs to be protected” or the “this is the only way to keep her safe” as justification for their lies. Iris does deserve better because she is being lied to by people that she trust. Iris deserves better because the men in her life somehow do not believe that she can make decisions about her own life. Iris deserves better and that is why she is right in letting Eddie know that if he can’t be truthful with her then what type of relationship do they have. Iris has every right to be angry for being lied to by the men who claim they love her but they treat her like a child. How can she protect herself when she doesn’t know the dangers that she is facing? Iris has shown that she can handle herself in tough situations with Girder and The Clock King.

    • Sarah T says:

      The only reason Barry hasn’t told Iris is because Joe told him not too. Since he looks at Joe like an adoptive father/guardian and Joe IS Iris’ father, he’s respecting Joe’s wish (at least for now) though he really doesn’t want to.

  22. Uniqke says:

    This was a filler episode. I’m tired of the crossovers. Ray is boring and Felicity is overused. ITA that Iris deserves better this storyline is lame and I can’t believe they can’t come up with something better. Tell her already! I’m confused too how Cisco is having dreams/flashback of something that happened in another time line.

  23. Sal says:

    No. Raylicity is not more fun on The Flash. They are awkward and disgusting, the innuendos and TMI and that deplorable line about dating Barry in Oliver’s body makes me want to die. I’m so done with these two but Ray especially.

    • Ab1973 says:

      I think they’re ruining Felicity on purpose so they can put Oliver and Laurel together next season. Felicity’s just awful now.

    • Brigid says:

      Waaaaaaa! They are awesome!!

      • Addie says:

        I know right…it’s too bad Felicity will stay in Starling City when Ray moves on…they have such great chemistry and their energy bounces off each other very well. Olicity is just so depressing and Felicity is always crying and miserable on Arrow

  24. Ellie says:

    After the timeline is changed in season 4 of Fringe, Olivia eventually “remembers” the original timeline of the first 3 seasons in which she knew Peter. That was the first thing that came to mind when Cisco started having his “dreams.” Andrew Kreisberg wrote a couple of early Fringe eps, perhaps there was some inspiration there?

  25. Kate says:

    I am so mad that these men are all deciding what’s best for Iris. She deserves so much better than all of them, even Barry. I hope she rains fire down on all of them.

    Ray is just as unbearable on Flash as he is on Arrow and everyone saying how great he is was just vomit-inducing. I hated all the Ray/Felicity stuff too. They are too alike and combined just become annoying and awkward. That bit about their sex life was cringe inducing, I wanted to leave the room.

    Also hate that this episode was promoted as having Felicity’s nemesis (by certain EP’s) and instead it was all about Ray. I’m sick of Felicity being used like this.

    Emily Kinney had like 5 minutes of screen time. What the hell was the point?

  26. Katie says:

    Well, I only watch the Flash, not Arrow at all, and I thought Felicity and Ray
    were adorable. And though I’m definitely in the minority, Iris actually really gets on my nerves. Is it right for everyone to lie to her? Probably not but it’s a tough situation. I don’t think it’s as unreasonable as everyone is making it out to be.

    • Rachel says:

      Thank you for this. I’ve been wondering if I’ve missed something b/c of the big deal people are making about it. Although I don’t care for iris that much so I don’t care that she doesn’t know lol.

      • Emily says:

        It’s the fact that she’s literally the only person who doesn’t know, and it was established as early as 1.05 that the only way to truly protect her is to inform her of what’s going on. And yet all these dudes that say they love her insist on keeping her in the dark and – worse – make her think she’s crazy for suspecting anything. How is that not a big deal?

        Just because you’ve decided not to care about a character doesn’t mean the narrative should stop making sense to you…

        • Rachel says:

          Wow someone need to get off their high horse. I can not like a character and still understand the narrative. *smh* get a clue

        • Steph says:

          Ugh you’re one of those people. When someone says they don’t like someone or something it’s b/c they “don’t understand.” Quit acting like your opinion is the only one to have. That’s why it’s an opinion.

    • Taylah Talks says:

      How is it not unreasonable? RF = Wells (Eobard), knows Barry, knows Barry is close to Iris. If he finds out barry knows who he is, he’s gonna target Iris either way, as well as Joe, so why are they not telling her? There is no reasonable explanation as to why NOT to. No matter how people like to twist it around. She’s as much in danger knowing than not knowing. In fact I’d say she’s in more, since she cannot take the necessary steps to try to (though there is little she can do) protect herself.

  27. TVPeong says:

    Barry should not have put Eddie in this position. It’s not Eddie’s secret. Barry should tell Iris the truth.

    • Sarah T says:

      Barry wants to tell Iris the truth but Joe told him not too. It’s Joe that’s been making the call to not to tell Iris to “keep her safe”.

  28. Sam says:

    Bored of the Iris-not-knowing storyline. Was bored 10 episodes ago. She needs to find out the truth and soon. Raylicity were actually even more out of place than Arrow, bizarrely. They just seemed too over the top and like they were putting on a show or something? Maybe they were trying too hard. Whatever. I don’t even care about them. Knowing this episode was supposed to air before Arrow 3×18 makes more sense now but I get the sense that these constant crossovers are gonna get annoying. Once a year is enough.

  29. Laura says:

    Pushing Daisies Betty’s Bees episode was a far better hour of bee-related TV.

    Also, did Felicity and Ray leave town with Roy in jail? Can’t Arsenal get some support?

  30. Alichat says:

    “And Eddie’s, “Or what?” at the end was just cold. Iris deserves better.”

    Uhhhhh no. I still say I do not understand why anyone wants to date Iris. I find her irritating. And this episode was just another example. Yes, Eddie is keeping a secret from her, and for a cop who’s supposed to be good at lying to a perp to get a confession or whatnot, he’s terrible at keeping a secret/little white lies. But he did say at the dinner that if he could tell her, he would. Which in relationship terms means ‘it’s not my secret to tell….so I can’t tell you.’ He acknowledged there was something, but that he couldn’t tell her. For her to throw a childish ultimatum in his face knowing that was just pathetic. So, frankly, he deserved better.

    • Amy says:

      Frankly both Iris and Eddie deserve better than what Joe and Barry are putting them through. At this point its doing more damage then good to keep Iris in the dark. I know you don’t like Iris but try to see it from her perspective. She’s hurt and confused because she knows her boyfriend (that she lives with and loves) is lying to her without givng her any explanation. I would have LOVED it if Eddie would have said “It’s not my secret to tell….so I can’t tell you’ because at least that would have been a little more clear. What he said at the dinner is vague and makes things more confusing. Would you want to continue to be in a relationship with someone you know is continually lying to you? Could you trust them knowing that? I’m not blaming Eddie for this mess, but I don’t think Iris should be blamed either.

      • Alichat says:

        I agree with you that keeping her in the dark is stupid. It’s causing alot of damage and will blow up in their faces soon. (Joe’s ‘until you become her husband’ line was particularly ridiculous) But she hasn’t always been the pillar of honesty with Eddie. And yes, I would be annoyed if my boyfriend was lying to me or being evasive. His ‘believe me, if I could tell you I would’ was vague, but if she wants open communication….if she really wants to know what is going on, that was the perfect time to just say “Why? Why can’t you tell me?” (She is a reporter **cough** after all.) That would have given him the opening to say ‘It’s not my secret to tell.’ Instead, she just stormed off from the dinner. And then shows up later at his office and again, instead of trying to open a dialogue and asking “Why can’t you tell me what it is? Is it national security? Am I in danger? Is it about my dad? Do you have cancer? Is the President coming? Is the sky falling? Are you Iron Man??’…..she instead slaps an ultimatum on him. She doesn’t want open communication and understanding, she just wants obedience. And it’s true, I am not a fan of her character. That’s mostly due to her having zippo chemistry with Barry, and they’ve not really done a good job writing/developing her character.

        • Amy says:

          I agree Joe’s line was ridiculous, like are we living in the 18th century? I also agree with your point that it would be awesome for Iris to be a kick butt reporter and find out whats going on her own. I’m really hoping thats what the writers do. But lets be real here for a second if Iris did go investigate Eddie after him not telling her the truth then Iris would be labeled a pyscho controlling nosy b**ch. She’s already been labeled as such for having the audacity to want to investigate Harrison Wells and Star Labs. The truth is I really agree to your points that Eddie is getting the short end of the stick in this situation. Its very unfair to him. While I wasn’t thrilled with that ultimatum at the end I think from Iris’s perspective is she’s given Eddie several oppourtunities to give her some sort of clarity in this situation that he turned down (Not that its Eddie’s fault he had to. But as far as Iris knows he’s going to remain on lock down for the forseeable future). I don’t like how they worded it but I think its undestandable that Iris is making it clear that for her to be in a intimate relationship with someone honesty is going to be a key thing. It just sucks Eddie is being put into the posistion where he can’t defend himself and Iris is put into the posistion of not knowing enough to make informed choices.

          • Rebecca says:

            Basically, Iris can’t win with these people.

          • Alichat says:

            I see your point, and while I wouldn’t label Iris a nosy, controlling, b* if she’d done some digging, you’re right some viewers would do that. I just thought it a waste of character development that she didn’t ask pointed questions, as a reporter would. Not even later when she gives the ultimatum. Ask why he can’t tell you….maybe ask when he can tell you……instead of just a flat ultimatum. Basically I think we’re all in agreement that this whole situation wasn’t written well and is an annoying plot device.

            And if I may and a reply to Rebecca……. since there is no reply option to your comment…..we are all just having a friendly discussion about a tv show. Let’s not start tossing around demeaning “these people” comments, ok? Thanks.

    • Carla Krae says:

      Agreed. And that she was doing it publicly and in front of friends really showed her immaturity. Hash out your drama in private, woman.

      • Alichat says:

        This!

        • M says:

          This is as outdated a sentiment as Joe saying Eddie gets the say so when he becomes her husband — that a woman should somehow ‘control’ her emotions and only have them in private. Especially when Barry got so overcome with his emotions about Wells, he walked out in the middle of dinner. You can quibble about who’s problem is worst but the truth is, Barry (& even Eddie, who gives Iris the silent treatment when he’s displeased with her) are allowed to openly angry and emotional while Iris, despite being consistently lied to by family, friends, and acquaintances, isn’t. Barry & Eddie are good looking guys but let’s not forget who’s actually being wronged here.

          • Drew says:

            Barry didn’t start yelling in the middle of a group dinner. He took his emotions and excused himself from the group. Very different thing.

          • Alichat says:

            I agree with Drew’s point. Barry didn’t start making pointed comments during a group dinner. She was instigating a fight and intending to embarrass him in front of the group, and that’s immature. Now that statement about Iris does not mean I think Barry and Eddie’s previous actions aren’t immature as well. I’m not sure what Barry and Eddie’s looks have to do with it, but we are just talking about Iris’ actions in this instance. Eddie’s previous silent treatment was immature as well. And one quick note on Barry’s anger…..while I get it, I hope we see him learn to control that and develop a good poker face….I think that would be helpful if you are going to be a super hero and all. LOL

          • M says:

            Iris didn’t yell. Was she passive aggressive? Yes. She was actually on the verge of tears as she stood up. And while Barry didn’t have any pointed remarks during the dinner, he has them every time he’s around Wells now — so much so that Joe’s had to cover for him. It can happen when a person is feeling hurt, angry and confused, and that is what Iris is feeling right now because of Eddie. Yet there’s been a lack of sympathy for her in situations where if Barry were in them, he’d respond the same way she had. My overall point is really a question: why are Barry & Eddie given passes (and much more easily forgiven) for their past immature behaviors but Iris is not? Side note: I brought up looks because let’s be real, if Eddie didn’t look like a male model, he would be subject to a lot more scrutiny too (plot wise, development wise, screentime wise, etc.)

  31. tvfirsthand says:

    The episode was not their best, but was good nonetheless. Check out my blog televisioncritics.wordpress.com to know what i thought of the episode with a recap of it too.

  32. Storys says:

    I think the difference with Cisco and the others has to do with the fact that he actually died in the alternate reality so this isn’t just a case of him not going somewhere or saying something or knowing a secret. He actually died and is now back because of the change Barry made so I think that might be the angle they’re going with. It’s the only one that makes sense to me. The idea that going from being dead to being alive, even if the events that lead to it changed, doesn’t negate the extreme of coming back from the dead. Regarding Iris, I may be in the minority here but I’m not a fan. Mostly because the writers didn’t learn their lesson with Laurel and are making the exact same mistakes. Again.And lets face it, I like the writers, love the shows, but they struggle with the romance and I think they struggle with the female characters in general. Iris isn’t really well integrated into the show and it’s not because she doesn’t know the secret. It was an issue before that. The fact that her character also seems in some ways a copy of season 1 laurel doesn’t help. I swear, when she talks, I can hear Laurel. As for not telling Iris the not so secret, secret..Iris has had her share of secrets too. A long secret romance. Talking with The Flash. Continuing to investigate The Flash. She’s not exactly innocent and I find her shoving an ultimatum down Eddie’s throat too early and both childish as well as whinny. She just figured out he’s hiding something and has absolutely no trust. Also, isn’t she a journalist? Go figure it out. Or at least make the attempt which personally, I think she’s a strong enough woman and writer to do. The fact that everyone knows but Iris is a bit of a stalling point but we know it’s coming so I don’t have any real gripes there. I do, however, think Barry and Jo letting the relationship between Eddie and Iris break to keep the secret is wrong and Barry should have stepped in when he saw Eddie’s reaction at the end. That he didn’t makes me disappointed in him. While I wasn’t happy about the Eddie and Jo argument of controlling Iris’ life out of ‘concern for her safety’ isn’t it one of the founding elements of superhero stories and women they care for? I suppose my main issue with it in this case is that Iris wouldn’t actually be in anymore danger than she was before. The Reverse Flash already knows he cares for her. If anything, telling her would help keep her safer. She would know the real danger and what’s really at stake. If Iris can’t handle being told the truth and that Barry needs her not to investigate certain stories so he can get the guy that killed his mom, she’s not really a friend. Seeing the old Felicity was fun. Just wish they would bring her back to wed nights and keep her there. And that she would break it off with Ray. She knows she’s not in love with him and that he is with her. That she’s not in love with him because she’s in love with Oliver and she knows it but continues to date Ray makes me like her a little less. You don’t drag a person on. I don’t care how hot/smart he is. Finally, people keep harping on the acting. I don’t think it’s that bad. In general, I think they do really well. I do think though that some of the dialogue / character movements don’t lend well at times and there are some deliveries and scenes where the director should have redone them if they weren’t that great (if the option was available) or editing should have been better. The actors do carry blame to during those times but not always all of it. I liked the episode and love the show but I admit it was a let down from the anticipation of it, especially with how they’ve been advertising.

  33. Katie says:

    Loved seeing Emily Kinney as a villain. I really hope she shows up again!

  34. Carla Krae says:

    I didn’t see Eddie’s “or what” as sold at all. Iris had said “Decide to share with me like someone who love me, or….” He said, or what?” And she said “or you know.” And she left. She was the one who was cold there.

    • msemmyjones says:

      Glad someone agrees with me! His “or what?” wasn’t a challenge, it was a question. She’s the one who threw down the ultimatum. Eddie’s in a seriously tough spot. And I feel bad about it. Because he’s so bad at lying to her, he becomes the bad guy in her eyes – someone who’s keeping secrets, who’s being evasive. As opposed to Barry, who gives her this moving speech about keeping Iris in the light and just wanting her to be happy even if that means helping her in her relationship with Eddie, who has become so adept at lying to her that she has no idea – he’s the good guy. You can almost see her pulling away from Eddie and towards Barry in those moments. And as much as I do eventually want an Iris/Barry relationship, it’s seriously going to be soured if this is how that transition happens. It’s Barry’s secret and it’s his responsibility to share it with Iris, not Eddie. But I’m worried Eddie’s the one who’s coming out of this the bad guy in Iris’ eyes.

    • M says:

      She wasn’t cold; she decided to stop being around the strange behavior because it’s hurting her. Eddie mentioned this has been ongoing for two weeks. Two weeks of him being a terrible liar, two weeks of ignoring/avoiding her concerns, two weeks of tension. She isn’t cold for not wanting to be in that situation with someone she loves her. And if the situation were reversed, Eddie would say the same thing. Probably even earlier than that.

      • Amy says:

        To add to M’s point when Eddie noticed something going on between Barry and Iris at the bowling date he also asked that she be upfront and honest with him. After he passive aggresivly ignored and gave her the silent treament. Now I’m not saying Eddie doesn’t have the right to be upset (because he did and was in the right to confront Iris about it). However when Iris wants honesty from Eddie in their relationship suddenly she’s a cold heartless woman? And if she didn’t stand up for herself we’d be getting comments about how she’s spinless and weak to let the men in her life control her.

  35. m3rcnate says:

    My hope is that all the characters start to remember what happened in the other timeline, specifically Iris. Its a good twist (though not totally original) that she starts to remember, realizes her feelings for Barry like she did in the other timeline and then remember that Barry is the Flash…then instead of running to him and telling him that she knows, she keeps it quiet and waits for him to tell her.
    Though thats asking a lot for such a immature character as this episode proves. Really? NO secrets or things he can keep to himself? Please. Eddie could have easily said that what is weighing on his mind is Police Business and not only can he not tell her in general, but shes a reporter now, he ESPECIALLY cant tell her.

  36. Rick Katze says:

    While I can’t specifically reference a given story, SF Writers have played time travel so many different ways: from history being rewritten and no one knows the truth to individuals being aware of a change in the time continuum. There is also ST:TNG where one of the characters says to RO that this is not how time happened and you should not be here. Eventually she travels to the past, causing the future to revert to what it should be and only that character remembers that Ro was ever on the Enterprise. Other people have already discussed Fringe.

  37. Bill says:

    This episode seemed to nail the coffin shut on Olicity. If having Ray and Felicity telling everybody about the incredible sex they are having doesn’t kill it, nothing will.

    • Kate says:

      Um, you might want to go watch the promo for the next 5 episodes of Arrow and you’ll see why this definitely DID NOT nail the coffin shut on Olicity. Also that whole terrible talk about their sex life was overcompensating at best. Cringe!

  38. Mari says:

    I got invested and now i’m suffering.

  39. Meena says:

    I normally love every episode of The Flash, but this episode felt kind of lackluster and boring. It definitely felt like a filler. Hopefully the next few episodes pick up the pace as we get closer to the season finale. I thought I would like Ray and Felicity here and that they would fit in Central City better than they do in Starling, but I just found them annoying (that line about their sex made me cringe). Iris was absolutely ridiculous this episode and although I don’t hate her, I don’t think the writers have made her likable or done a very good job of writing her. She reminds me too much of Laurel sometimes. I really hope they can improve her character because right now she feels like a prop for everyone else’s development. Also, the “villain” this episode didn’t feel very much like a villain at all, Emily Kinney barely got any screen time. I hope tomorrow’s episode of Arrow turns out to be better than this.

  40. Steve says:

    In the comics Cisco becomes the superhero Vibe who has the metahuman ability to (you guessed it) emit powerful vibratory shock waves,

    Part of his powers also affects inter dimensional physics – he can disrupt the speed force, track inter dimensional breaches etc.

    This is his powers starting to surface and also why he ‘remembers’ what happened in the other timeline.

  41. Calliope says:

    If Future Flash and Reverse-Flash went back in time and rewrote the timeline first by Reverse Flash killing Nora and then by him taking over Wells’ identity and speeding up events to get Flash created sooner, aren’t they already in an alternate timeline? So shouldn’t everyone be having these flashback dreams?

    Also – Future Flash ran back in time with Reverse Flash, failed to save his mom, but ran his kid-self to safety. Reverse-Flash killed Nora and then ran out of juice, deciding to take over Wells’ identity and blah-blah-blah. Okay. Sure.

    ….what happened to Future Flash? I can’t see him just running back to the future and leaving Reverse-Flash to meddle in the past…so where did he go?

    And wouldn’t it be a lot easier for Wells to just tell Barry “So, hey, listen – turns out killing your mom got me stuck in the past and pretty miserable so when you run into the hasn’t-time-travelled-yet version of me in the future, how about we NOT race back in time to kill your mom?”

    …talking time travel hurts my head.

  42. Preacher Book says:

    I dunno, but Iris came off here as the bad guy. “NO secrets” and immediately going to he’s cheating on me?!?!? Barry offered a perfect explanation for Eddie’s actions that just happened to be true (more or less). They have made Iris be a stick in the mud just to create conflict, I suppose.

  43. btm says:

    I actually don’t have a problem with lies, per se, on a comics-based show with secret identities. If you do, you can’t buy the most basic of superhero tropes, and I don’t see how you can be a fan of comics or movies/TV based on comics. Maintaining a secret identity to protect loved ones is intrinsic to the genre. The problem is that this show is inconsistent with execution.
    .
    Where this show is increasingly erring is that it seems to be OK with an awful lot of people now knowing the secret. Arrow has the same problem. It’s to the point where the various reveals to those who find out are starting to be blown off far too casually. If I’m not mistaken, there was no reaction from anyone to the apparently offscreen reveal to Palmer by Felicity that Barry is the Flash. Why not? That’s a big deal. That evidently wasn’t Barry-approved, but she did it anyway. The idea that it’s OK simply because he’s also a hero doesn’t track for me. She just showed up with him to get a tune up.
    .
    Both these shows have fallen into the habit of overexpanding the support network, very quickly, drilled down all the way to the secret identity of the lead. When a show like Arrow, with a relatively small cast, has a dozen characters who know the identity of the lead, that’s an issue. When a young show like Flash already has this many who know, that’s an issue.
    .
    Flash has a secret identity… except from Palmer, Eddie, Joe, Wells, Cisco, Panabaker, Cold and his two siblings, Flash v1.0 in the slammer, Felicity, Oliver, Diggle, Canary, Arsenal, and probably a half dozen more I can’t even remember. The show is only 18 episodes old. That makes it just about one person finding out per episode.
    .
    This for me is where the Iris protection storyline falls apart. Making the strident case that it’s critical that Iris not find out is a stretch. The fourth-wall-breaking nod to the fact that Iris is almost the only recurring character in the series who doesn’t know is a little more on point than I expect that the show runners intended, because it’s not really tenable. Not only that, but it risks destroying all the secret identity-related tension on which comics source material thrives. Will they/won’t they find out or tell those closest to them is core narrative tension in the superhero genre. When everyone know, that’s no longer the case.
    .
    As for Felicity, every time they bring the angst, it destroys that character. That is what made her so great this episode. Either send her to the ensemble spinoff or start the romance with Oliver, let it burn out in due course, and then let her revert to her much better funny, sunny, quippy, double entendre-delivering self. She even got to be a bit of a hero this episode, complete with funny mic-dropping hubris. Nothing is good about pining, weepy, judgmental Felicity. Nothing. Great character, but she brings down the whole room on Arrow nowadays.
    .
    I’m neither pro or anti ‘ship, but the relationship purgatory has to end. Fish or cut bait.

  44. Joey Padron says:

    good episode. Ray & Felicity did good in episode. surprised Cisco remembers what happened to him in other timeline.

  45. Brandon says:

    About time travel, I took it as a X Men DOFT type situation. In time travel, the subconscious goes back in time. And since Cisco’s experience was so traumatizing, he is able to remember? Maybe?

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      Except Cisco didn’t travel back in time. Barry did. This Cisco’s experiences have never brushed up against such an encounter with Wells.

      As for the Vibe theory cited elsewhere here: When/how did he acquire his particular “power,” that it is now manifesting?

      • Ashley says:

        I’ve always assumed some meta-human powers would remain dormant for a while to help stretch things out, story-wise.

  46. Georgia Madman says:

    Laughing at all the Iris defenders here. When I said Laurel sucked and had to go, all I got was “Get over it. It’s canon.” When I said Iris sucked and had to go, again I got “Get over it. It’s canon.”
    To those same people who are whining about Iris being lied to, I say to you “Get over it. It’s canon.” The heros’ girlfriends always gets lied to in the beginning (Lana, Lois, Laurel, Iris, etc.). So get over it and it’ll change when the writers choose to change it. Or they get rid of Iris…

    • Steph says:

      THIS!!!!

    • M says:

      This situation is different. How does Captain Cold, Ray Palmer, & Lyla Michaels over on Arrow know before Iris? I can’t speak to Smallville but on Arrow, they didn’t have nearly as many random people find out Oliver’s identity and that’s the problem. The ratio of people knowing vs not knowing is much higher on this show, to the point where her character is getting blowback from being out of the loop. Hell even the villain this week Brie Larvin knows Barry’s identity. That is what her defenders are saying. Besides, it’s time for that tired out trope to die out anyways.

  47. M says:

    It’s a shame how many people have really missed the point of Matt’s “Iris deserves better” comment. She does — in the narrative and by viewers.

    She starts writing about the mysterious something in the city because of a journalism class, only for it to be confirmed by the man himself, yet she’s nosy and annoying for wanting to dig deeper and break the story of a lifetime while helping the city.

    Then after being nothing but a good friend (trivia night with Felicity) and constantly handling herself in dangerous situations (Girder, Clock King, & Trickster later on) she finds out Barry loves her and instead of dumping Eddie & getting with him (which would have gotten her more hate), she goes ahead with Eddie because she loves him. But she’s cold for not reciprocating feelings for someone other than her boyfriend when he had their whole lives to tell her (his words).

    Then she becomes a journalist and at her mentor’s insistence, starts digging into Wells/STAR Labs (the same as Joe) but she’s terrible and will ruin everything so she should stop doing the job she’s getting paid to do.

    She has one moment of crossing a line with Linda (not even on purpose since Linda directly asked her a question) and she’s hailed as this hateful master manipulator when Barry was passive aggressive towards Eddie for many episodes and openly flirted with her as the Flash.

    She’s a cheater after having a life or death confession to Barry that she loves him; no wait, she’s not a cheater but she’s so rude for telling Barry no so harshly at Jitters and reaffirming the love she has for Eddie.

    Oh, and she’s a damsel in distress at the gala with the Trickster but the STAR Labs crew didn’t know he was there until she intelligently and calmly called her detective dad and let him hear what was going on over the phone. But she’s airheaded for explicitly trusting something her detective boyfriend says about a missing colleague (& everything her dad and best friend says).

    And now she’s a terrible person for recognizing full on lies from a man she lives with and has been in a serious relationship with. How dare she almost cry and walk out at dinner when he said secrets could be a good thing? How dare she take Barry’s advice for what it was then decide what she wanted to do in her *own* relationship by simply asking more from a man who hinted he wanted to marry her two eps prior? How dare she be angry & hurt & worried?

    She is such a terrible person. That’s sarcasm, btw.

    TL:DR — The only thing wrong with her character is her lack of screen time and separation from the rest of the cast. Candice is a great actress and does so much with the little she has. (Even though Eddie’s lack of screen time and development doesn’t seem to have the same blowback). While the superhero identity trope is used a lot, the entire cast of Flash & Arrow know Barry’s identity except for her. So yes, Iris West *does* deserve better. And I hope she gets it.

    • Amy says:

      Thank you for so clearly and concisly showing all the double standards Iris is up against. Its so frustrating when people say “this is what Iris should do!” when she’d probably get hate for that too. No matter what Iris does apparently its not good enough.

  48. Kim R says:

    As far as Iris not knowing Barry is The Flash, I think when she is the ONLY main character in a cast of several, that doesn’t know, it seems a little stupid. I mean even Eddie knows! It is time.

    • Amy says:

      I think thats where so many of us are coming from. Its just a stupid and ridiculous storyline at this point. If she doesn’t find out by the end of the season I will lose my mind!

  49. dlocke72edits says:

    Favorite exchange of the show:

    “When does my opinion get to outweigh yours?”

    “When you’re her husband!”

    You tell’m Joe!!

    • kath says:

      That gets the award for the most sexist line on either show, and that’s saying a lot. Iris is in her mid-twenties, the men don’t get to decide her life.

      I hope Joe would get his comeuppance for that. Poor Iris.

      • jab says:

        It wasn’t “deciding” HER life. It was deciding (in The Flash logic) on letting Iris know a piece of information about BARRY’S life, not hers.

        • kath says:

          It’s something about Barry that everyone who is a friend or co-worker knows, and half the villains in Central City too. Joe and Barry decided that Iris couldn’t know because it would be too dangerous for her to know even though Caitlin is working with Barry, so in my book, that is making the decisions about her life.

  50. speedy says:

    I hated the episode. First of all, who didn’t see the “It’s a bird, it’s a plane” comment from a mile away…and Caitlin would have to be dumb to think the object zooming through the sky is a bird in the first place. Lines like that aren’t quotable or fun when it makes no sense, and when they are so glaringly obvious that the most novice television writer would have stuck them in there because of novelty instead of logic. Ray was, as usual, terrible, from buying out the restaurant for the night to admitting that he bought Felicity’s company to force her to work for him. The Ray-Felicity relationship continues to be nauseating, mostly because I can’t get past how they have written Ray. And Iris? Where do I begin? There is nothing dumber than how this show is treating Iris, and the ONE person who is actually on her side, Eddie, is the one who is suffering for it. I actually had to turn off the episode halfway through because it was so bad. The only positive I’ve got is that I didn’t waste my time sitting through this mess of an episode.