Post Mortems

Post Mortem: Arrow Bosses on Oliver's Decision, A.T.O.M.'s Future and More

Arrow Season 3 Oliver Replace Ra's al Ghul

Warning: The following contains spoilers for Wednesday’s Arrow.

On Wednesday night’s episode of Arrow, Oliver Queen once again escaped death — thanks, this time, to a twist more surprising than magical herbs and snow.

Rather than killing Queen, Ra’s al Ghul announced that he wanted the archer to replace him as the leader of the League of Assassins. (Sorry, Nyssa.)

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Meanwhile, another hero took flight as Ray finally got the A.T.O.M. exosuit working — after a night of passion with Felicity!

Below, executive producers Andrew Kreisberg and Marc Guggenheim discuss the big choice ahead for Oliver, as well as the other characters’ reactions to the news of Ra’s proposal. They also weigh in on Felicity’s decision to move on and Oliver’s reaction to Starling City’s newest crimefighter.

THE OFFER | The heading of this paragraph also is the title of the next episode, in which “Oliver is completely — as hopefully the audience is — taken aback, ’cause he was not expecting” Ra’s al Ghul’s overture, Kreisberg previews. “It was something that [executive producer] Greg [Berlanti] and Marc and I talked about: It was important to have a different villain this year and somebody who is going to be doing something completely different.” And that Ra’s most certainly did, going from “giant, malevolent force” to presenting “the keys to the kingdom to our hero.” How Oliver and everyone else will react to the proposition, and how he’ll ultimately answer, “makes up the bulk of the next run of episodes,” the EP notes, adding that the League is now “a different kind of threat, because they’re asking him to join up. [But] as Malcolm tells him in a subsequent episode, [Ra’s is] not really asking.”

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Arrow Oliver to Replace Ra's al GhulBut can Oliver even step into the murderous leadership role, given his humanity? “Ra’s has an interesting perspective on that question, which you’ll get in the first act” of the next episode, Guggenheim replies. “One of the things we reveal in [Episode] 320 is where the name The League of Assassins came from and what it means to be an ‘assassin.’ If you’re a historian, you know it has a different meaning than what it’s become in the modern day.”

HEIR BECOMES HER | One person, in particular, will have very strong feelings about Ra’s offer. “Nyssa is the Heir to the Demon, so you can imagine how she feels when she finds out that what she considered to be her birthright is being handed to Oliver,” Kreisberg teases. Did the diss from daddy come because of her close relationship with a certain Lance sister? “There’s a scene in [Episode 16] between Nyssa and Ra’s that definitely addresses that,” Guggenheim says. “From Nyssa’s perspective, it has everything to do with Sara. From Ra’s perspective? Maybe, maybe not.” Regardless of the answer, Ra’s decision will send his lost daughter “on a different trajectory where she’s seeing what kindness looks like for the first time, and she’s seeing what normal people look like for the first time,” Kreisberg says.

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Arrow Felicity Ray SexNEW BED BUDDIES | Olicity fans, still in tears over Felicity sleeping with her boss, Ray Palmer? Perhaps these words from Kreisberg will offer some solace as to why the tech whiz has moved on: “Part of the fun of watching couples on television is keeping them apart and watching how other people come in and out of their lives,” the EP says. “For right now, Oliver has decided that [he] can’t do this, and Felicity’s not just going to sit around waiting for him. She’s probably the most healthy of all of them. He’s the one shutting himself down, emotionally, when he has this amazing person who’s basically offering him hope, guidance, friendship and love and everything. He doesn’t feel he deserves it and doesn’t feel that’s what’s best for her, whether she agrees with it or not.” On the other end of the spectrum, but not so far apart from Oliver, is Ray, who’s “had a tragedy and he’s trying to do right by it, but he’s opening his heart to her. And he’s Brandon Routh. How can you blame her?” Kreisberg adds.

While we don’t know yet if Oliver will learn about Felicity’s new beau, he will have a reaction to the new superhero in town. Ray will “go about things in a very different way than the Arrow does,” Guggenheim reveals. “And he’s not a part of Team Arrow. Right now, he’s just a very smart guy in a very, very powerful suit. Oliver’s definitely going to have an opinion, and the first instance of that will be in Episode 317.”

ANOTHER QUEEN SPARED | Although Thea’s guilt and regret led to her “essentially attempting suicide by Nyssa” at the end of the hour, the next episode finds the young Queen looking “for closure in another way,” Guggenheim teases.

Arrow fans, do you think Oliver will accept Ra’s offer? Was Ray’s maiden voyage as Atom super? And are you looking forward to more of Nyssa’s journey? Sound off in the comments!

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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286 Comments
  1. CM says:

    There. This episode of Arrow paves the way for Olicity.

    Can you spell TROPE.

    • Sarah T says:

      Maybe it is somewhat but it’s not unusual for Felicity to want to move on. I’m not crazy that they had her sleep with him. I do think that cheapened their “relationship”. I thought the twist was overhyped. It’s not bad but clearly Oliver is not going to become Raj so…
      Overall, solid episode but I expected a bit more.

      • CM says:

        It does cheapen the relationship. Absolutely everywhere on planet except Hollywood.

        • ChicagoDan says:

          Not at all. Felicity has clearly stated she wants Oliver and he has rejected her. He even went on another suicide mission, despite Felicity’s pleas. In her mind, the road to Oliver is closed. What’s she supposed to do? Sit around and cry? It’s not like Ray is out of the blue, they’ve been working together and getting to know each other. She didn’t go over there to hook up with him – she went to help him get a grip, which is in her nature. Let’s think about how many women Oliver has ‘loved’ on this show and how the Arrow got started with him cheating on Laurel with her sister.

          • Nina Love says:

            Can someone please tell me that the Canary is gong to be killed at some point, or shipped off to an island or another show or anything. I will give anything to have Laurel off that show, she’s ruining Arrow for me..

          • blancaster60 says:

            No, Felicity isn’t supposed to just pine away for Oliver, but give the guy a little credit. He did get up the nerve once (with Diggs’ urging him on) to really tell her he was in love her, but when he walked in on she and Ray kissing, it kind of killed that idea. As for all the women Oliver has slept with, he had a couple of one-night stands with Laurel and I think someone else who later tried to kill him. And then there was Sara who I think he truly loved, but she left him and then was murdered. As for his cheating on Laurel, that was a long time ago and I think he has paid for that transgression many times over. Besides, he is clearly not that guy anymore. Basically, you would be hard pressed to find another character on this show that has had more crap thrown at him than Oliver. So for me, seeing Felicity and Ray hook up seemed a little depressing. They just keep piling it on this guy.

          • tara says:

            absolutely agree with everything said here. I’m a total olicity fan but Felicitys’ character deserves to have a relationship with someone who can show her the love she deserves. RIGHT NOW thats not Oliver. But it will be in the future

          • Amandalyn says:

            blancaster60 — I’m not giving Oliver ANY credit. If Oliver’s moping, it’s because he’s in a situation that HE created.

            First, he started a relationship with Sara the NIGHT Felicity admitted to him she was afraid of losing him. That had to be a slap in the face, but Felicity weathered it.

            The night Oliver walked in on Ray and Felicity kissing, he’d made her listen while he explained in great detail to Cupid Crazy Pants why he couldn’t be involved with anyone. Further, Cupid’s supposed to be able to tell whether or not Oliver’s lying, and she said he was. So, a) Felicity had to have the salt rubbed in about Oliver not ever getting involved with her and/or b) Oliver *could* be with her and chooses not to (which is in fact the case.)

            Besides, how was Felicity supposed to know Oliver had this grand change of heart after shoving her away like that? She’s a genius but she’s not telepathic. Frankly, I cheered when that happened because I thought Oliver’s been downright cruel to her. He deserves the kick in the teeth. Women being unavailable seem to be the only way he goes after them. He didn’t ‘rediscover’ his love for Laurel until he knew she was involved with Tommy and he became far more determined to hold onto Sara after he found out about her relationship with Nyssa. I’m not sure if it’s a conscious thing on his part, but unavailability certainly seems to give him a wakeup call.

            Women Oliver has slept with, by the way– and this is JUST since the show started: Laurel, Helena, McKenna, Isabel and Sara.

            ISABEL. There is no way in the world anything Felicity could do with Ray could approach the utter lunacy that was Oliver’s ONS with that one, let me tell you.

            And let’s not forget he’s got an illegitimate child around there somewhere, too.

            So, no. Oliver is where he is because of his own bad decisions. He lost his company not because of Ray, but because he decided through some crazy moment of idiocy that instead of calling his STEPFATHER (you remember, Walter, the one who used to be CEO?) to be his proxy, he gave it to the woman who tried to throw him out with a hostile takeover. THAT was a level of stupid that still has me scratching my head. So he’s poor because he didn’t think.

            He’s lost Felicity because he’s turned his back on her and done everything he could to shove her away. His behavior’s been nothing short of cruel. HE was the one who brought up a relationship; she seemed happy with the way things were. HE was the one who shoved her away afterwards. HE was the one who wanted her to keep hanging around while he decided whether or not she was actually a priority in his life. HE was the one who shut her out of his life when he came back from the dead. And here’s the really hurtful part: Oliver’s had other relationships, and they’ve daunted Felicity a little (such as when he hooked up with Sara), but he’s made a point of letting her know she’s still a partner, and he still trusts and respects her judgment.

            Oliver and Felicity have a partnership through Team Arrow that precedes and, I think, even supersedes the romantic one. For him to not want a romantic partnership is one thing, even though he’s never basically rubbed her nose in it before. However, for Oliver to come back from the dead and essentially go against everything Felicity believes in…that’s something else again. He’s always trusted Felicity’s judgement. Now, he’s shutting her out there, too. To be honest, I think that hurts Felicity more than the romantic relationship. You can’t save each other’s lives without creating a hell of a bond that goes far beyond the romantic.

            And not only does Oliver ignore her advice about Merlyn, he goes off to Nanda Parbat and doesn’t even bother saying goodbye. Yeah, he must care a lot, if he fought for her so hard. Not.

            And since she’s a self-respecting woman, she’s decided not to take it in the teeth anymore. Good for her.

            My objection to the Ray/Felicity relationship? That they’re both rebounding. I could so see Anna doing and saying everything that Felicity did and said – making him stop working on a project, going to take care of himself and putting her foot down about it. And think about it. The guy had been at it a week and nobody had come to check on him. Clearly, he’s got nobody close to him.

            And Ray could have been reading from a list of everything Felicity’s always wanted to hear from Oliver. That she *used* to hear from Oliver. That he trusts her judgement. That he relies on her. All the things Oliver used to say…and now Oliver isn’t saying them anymore.

            She wants to know she’s needed, and who can blame her after the way Oliver’s treated her?

            So, no. I have not one atom (no pun intended) of sympathy for Oliver. It’s probably stretching it to say he’s been borderline emotionally abusive to her this season, but damn straight he’s all but shoved her at Ray Palmer. He deserves whatever heartache he gets and then some. Maybe it’ll make him pull his head out of his rear and and realize what he’s lost.

          • Anne says:

            I could not have said that better myself. Oliver right now is a douch. Did anyone notice that Felicity knew that Oliver was going to Nanda Parbat because Oliver was beaten by Ra’ and he just couldn’t stand the thought of being defeated. He sacrifices Felcity every time. Because he always felt that she would be there when he returned maybe now he will realize that isn’t the case.

      • Carrie says:

        On one hand, I’m glad Felicity is not pining after Oliver and you know they’ll get together eventually. On the other hand, it’s so very inappropriate to sleep with your boss. They always do that on TV shows, give the female character a hot boss and have her sleep with him. I don’t care if the guy looks like Brandon Routh, it would be wildly inappropriate in real life.

        • Rob Watkins says:

          Oliver was also her boss.

          • Mari says:

            They were partners on Team Arrow a year before he made her his EA.

            And Oliver never stalked her or showed up at her place while she was still in pajamas.

            The whole storyline with Ray is squicky. The EPs should have left it platonic; then I wouldn’t have to fast forward it.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Even if she wasn’t his executive assistant, she still would’ve been his employee. The IT department is part of the company.

            How the hell would Ray have known she was in her PJ’s? He’s not stalking her.

          • Nina Love says:

            No they should not have left it platonic, this is the right move. Oliver clearly does not want to be with Felicity and Ray does…

          • Amandalyn says:

            Oliver was not only her boss, he hung around half-naked in front of her half the time, pretty much showed off on the salmon ladder because he knew she was watching, and she’s pretty much seen all of him there is to see.

            On top of which, he arbitrarily moved her to be his assistant (but let’s call it what it is, a secretary, which is NOT a promotion, but a demotion for someone who worked as a professional in the IT department). Yet not one person would have let out a peep if Oliver had done her right there in the office.

            She’s working voluntarily for Ray as a *vice president*, and she’s actually getting to put her skills to real use instead of covering Oliver’s butt when he doesn’t feel like coming in to work — which it seems is half of what she did for S2. (I would have had a lot less objection to that demotion if it had been otherwise.) Granted, I’m not a fan of office relationships, but I can’t see how anyone can object it’s ‘inappropriate’ for her to sleep with one man and not the other.

            Except one’s a ship and one isn’t.

      • Thomas says:

        I think Oliver will take him up on the offer and end up fighting ATOM and his former team with Nyssa helping them. More likely hell end up against Nyssa and ATOM which will lead to him realizing his mistake to have a final battle against Ra ‘ s where he defeats him then Nyssa claims the league as her own.

      • Ashley says:

        I dislike Ray/Felicity, but Oliver has said he can’t be with her, so I don’t think it cheapens anything. Felicity can’t really be expected to pin after him indefinitely. Plus, her sleeping with him was clearly about Oliver & in reaction to him, not Ray.

        • Shannon says:

          I think Felicity definitely cares for Ray. She’s been needing Oliver to be open and honest with her and to stop making excuses for why they can’t be together. Ray doesn’t treat her like a delicate flower and trusts her to make her own decisions while being able to give her the emotional connection that she wants in a relationship. I would love for Oliver and Felicity to be endgame but not right now. I don’t care for the way he insists he knows what’s best for her when he’s really hiding from his own fears/insecurities.

    • Christina says:

      this!!
      there is a lot of character development needed, from both of them, so they can try to figured out their feelings for one another. And the scene where felicity just understands where Oliver is coming from when it comes to saving Merlyn is a huge step. I highly doubt that the writes will make a less human oliver and I still believe that he will realise that felicity is the one that keeps him human.

      • Cynthia L Chism says:

        YES!!!!! I am disappointed in the writwrs for letting Felicity do that, that act cheapened her relationship with Ray, but Oliver she loves and respect him and herself enough not to cheapen them that way so quickly. Sure she needs love but Ray was in the moment and see he flew off to his mission not staying with her. Oliver and Ray both choose their missions instead of her but I’m still shipping OLICITY as endgame.

        • John NYC says:

          I don’t see that. Oliver has long been clear he’s not going to get involved with her and she’s been working with Ray for a long time now. She’s an adult and has clearly decided to move on with her private life.

          What would have been “cheap” would have been cliche of the frail flower of a girl pining off to the side for her unavailable hero.

          • blancaster60 says:

            Oh, but he was ready to get involved with Felicity when he went to tell her how he really felt about her (wisely taking Diggs advice) and walked in on her kissing Ray. That was kind of a mood killer. Of course, Felicity didn’t know any of that, so I get her deciding it was time to move on. Still kind of sad, though. I look at the official demise of Olicity as just one more crappy thing in this character’s miserable life. Yeah, he broods a lot but can you blame him?

        • Amandalyn says:

          He didn’t fly off to a mission. He tested the ATOM suit and it was a breakthrough he’d been working on for months. Not sure what the problem is here.

    • Cynthia L Chism says:

      I COULDN’T AGREE MORE, BUT WHAT IS TROPE?????

    • Shelley says:

      For me, this entire premise is nothing but soap opera. It was a waste of an hour. So, for Stephen Amell and the producers keep saying it gets worse before it gets better, does nothing for this episode, IMO. I see where their going for the rest of the season. No thanks. Oliver finds out about Felicity and Ray, so he decides to take Ra’s ” Offer”. Because he doesn’t believe in himself anymore. This doesn’t interest me in the least. I don’t like this season.

      • Linda P says:

        I distinctly remember in the first season, the EPs said they drew from the soap opera Revenge. Most tv shows these days are turning to soap themes.

      • John NYC says:

        “Soap” is the inevitable product of “shipping”.

      • CybexAl says:

        Very well said. The writing is infantile at best.

        • Anne says:

          Everyone please take a step back all of the TV shows that are on a continious basis are moving toward soap opera statis. That is how they continue. I still love Arrow and the characters too. Give them a chance please. Not everything is as it seems.

    • Nina Love says:

      I loved seeing Ray and Felicity getting together, I love Felicity and Oliver as well, I love Felicity and Barry too…
      Why do I have to pick one over the other when I can have and enjoy them all..I do not know why people have to be team this or team that esp when it comes to romance plots.
      And her sleeping with Ray does not cheapen her or her r/ship with Ray; she’s an intelligent woman who knows what she wants and I loved that she’s the one who initiated.
      What people don’t realize is once Olicity get together on this type of show, there’ll be nowhere else to go for them but straight down to crush and burn.

  2. Steven says:

    These writers are getting worse each week. Made Felicity even worse this week.

    • Mena says:

      I agree. I get that there is identity crises, but, I’m sorry, not impressed.

    • Gasna says:

      I wish they didn’t have her sleeping with Ray. She loves Oliver and it just goes to show that writers think nothing of having sex-that’s just Hollywood where everyone sleeps with everyone..ARGGGGHHH! Prostitutes can have sex without getting emotionally involved so the fact that you had Felicity have sex with Ray means nothing…but it’s disrespectful…she was with Oliver for 3 years and nothing…she’s with Ray for three months an then BAM …she doesn’t even know much about Ray..it just cheapened this for me..and how Oliver is going to react when he finds out about that…oh boy…I’m glad I have a few weeks to recover…I HATE ARROW at the moment…I don’t care about the 30 second Olicity moments each episodewhen they grind our hearts into bleeding pulps for the rest of the 44 minutes and 30 seconds… :-((((( Marc Guggenheim and his writers are a bunch of asses.

      • Arsenal says:

        Gasna says: “She was with Oliver for 3 years and nothing”

        What? I either don’t understand or you & I have been watching completely different shows.

      • John NYC says:

        Oliver’s unavailable so she’s moving on. A lot more realistic having an adult character make a positive decision for herself rather than waiting for her “hero” to change his mind, hope, hope…. gag.

      • Nina Love says:

        @Gasna Seriously. You sound really young and clueless.
        What do you mean Felicity and Ray do not know each other, they know each other as much as a boss and an employer can, and then some..
        Felicity is the only person who knows about the Atom suit right now, Ray and Felicity have bonded over this project.
        How do you know she does not have an emotional attachment to Ray,have you not been watching the past couple of episodes when Felicity was refusing to help Ray because she did not want to ‘lose him too’.
        That pretty much spells emotional to me…it may not be love like between her and Oliver but it’s def something.
        So does Felicity just have to wait until Oliver thinks its now ok for them to be together, who knows how long that will be. I say F that, she should move on with her life. And this is great character development for Felicity.
        She has been pining over Oliver for what seems to be the greater part of the series now, its great to see her with someone else who actually wants to be with her. That is a more realistic & mature approach to this plot.

      • Amandalyn says:

        Um, it didn’t cheapen it for you when Oliver slept with FIVE different women ON THE SHOW? Including SISTERS? Now, THAT is massive amounts of squick. I have never, ever, thought the idea of his sleeping with both Laurel and Sara to be anything but squicky. I don’t have anything against Sara, and even if he loved her, it’s still squicky as hell. And that one night stand with Isabel didn’t cheapen anything for you? Seriously??

        Also, please consider something else for Felicity this season. Barry’s not interested. Oliver’s kicked her in the teeth. She finds out her first love is not only NOT dead, but a criminal and willing to kill her — and makes a point of saying just because he slept with her doesn’t mean he won’t kill her.

        On top of which, she’s been a workaholic nonpareil since she became involved with Team Arrow. She’s. Had. No. Life.

        Is it any surprise she’s turned to someone who does want her? What I’d hate to see is her acting like a moony teenager with no self-esteem and allowing Oliver to continue kicking her while she works 24/7 and continues to have no life.

        Sorry if it spoils Arrow for you, but I can’t agree with your objections.

  3. CM says:

    Oh.

    And let the Felicity hate begin.

    • Lex says:

      Officially starting the “SLUT-SHAME OR CALL FELICITY A WHORE BEAT DOWN TEAM” because she has done absolutely nothing wrong – Oliver’s being a moron, Ray actually gives a damn, we all know it’s temporary, so why doesn’t she see a little action while she waits for Oliver to get his head out of his ass?

      • Momo says:

        Yes, yes, and yes. I love Felicity, I love Olicity and I still have high hopes for them, but everyone has been in a relationship with somebody else before getting with the one they’re meant to be with. And why shouldn’t she be with Ray? They are good together for right now until Oliver realizes he’s being a jackass. Ray isn’t in love with her and she isn’t in love with him. It doesn’t mean they can’t enjoy being with each other.

        • Kate says:

          Momo, you took the words right ought of my mouth! Oliver has removed himself, Ray is a smart, kind of funny guy who cares about Felicity, so I see no problem with them being together. And yes, he’s her boss, but isn’t she also an executive, not an assistant anymore? So it’s not that huge of a power gap either. I can’t wait for real Olicity, but I’m not all torn up about this either.

          • Lex says:

            If you think about it, Oliver actually needs this to happen for character growth – he needs to be the one pining over a girl while she’s with someone else (season 1 Laurel doesn’t count because he was projecting his idealized island fantasy on her the whole time and Tommy’s the one who got completely screwed over in the end). We spent all of season 2 watching Oliver bang other women (ISABEL! Come on, Isabel! I love some Sara/Oliver friends with benefits, but Isabel? That’s low!) while she is clearly in love with him. He needs to experience the other side of this to really understand that he should treat the women in his life better (though I have seen some brief improvement in his relationship with Thea in the last few episodes).

            Long story short, resolving Oliver’s jackassery with women is a conflict needed to be worked through before he’s ready to be with Felicity. She deserves better than an insensitive flake with absolutely no common sense these days.

            In the mean time, Ray has a salmon ladder too.

      • Anne says:

        I agree why should she sit around and wait for something that may never happen. I am glad she slept with Ray, besides he cares for her probably more than cares its Felicity and she is a smart, intelligent woman. Why hate her for doing something so innocent so it wasn;t with Oliver big deal. Its not like he has shown any interest in her lately. He broke her heart. So I say go Felicity and be yourself to hell with everyone else.

      • Nina Love says:

        I agree, why does Felicity even have to wait for Oliver to want to be with her again. That is very degrading to her character.
        When Oliver realizes that he wants to be with her, he needs to wait in line like anybody else. It’s time for Felicity to takes charge of her love life and to stop pining over Oliver Queen.
        Anyway as much as I might like Olicity; Oliver is right, this is not the right time for them; he’s more focused on other issues right now and seems to be making more selfish decisions than ever before. It will be really unfair on Felicity.

      • Vicki says:

        LMBO! Good one Lex! I agree with you on this. Ray cares for her a lot and is willing to take things slower. She made an adult decision that I think had crossed her mind more than a few times. Wasn’t like she’d just met him yesterday. Oliver had his chance more than a few times too with her. He made it clear to her it just wasn’t going to happen. It was time Felicity told Oliver, “Adios Cowboy!”.

      • Amandalyn says:

        I’ll join and then some!

        I wanted Olicity when Oliver was treating her as she should be treated, but no self-respecting woman should take that crap from anyone, I don’t care who he is.

      • Amandalyn says:

        Oh, and Lex? You are made of awesome. :)

  4. zacqua10 says:

    Is it just me of was that “twist” extremely overhyped? Sure it was cool and all, but I wouldn’t exactly call it game changing. That said, I am definitely looking forward to how this all progresses.

    • Andy says:

      Agree 100%. Thoroughly underwhelmed. Way too hyped. Especially after they “killed” Oliver before the winter break.

    • Linda P says:

      I wish they would quit overhyping the episodes, that always leads to disappointment.

    • ian says:

      I agree. I honeslty think the season story arc could have been planned better. For me personnally, I think that the back half of season 3 would have worked better if, since they knew they were going to have Ra’s make the offer to Oliver, why not have it be why he killed him. We could have learned that Ra’s was impressed with Oliver but he refused his offer on the mountain top, so Ra’s kills him to bring him back corrupted with the pit (instead of magic penicilin tea and “strong will to live”)

      Then Oliver would have come back as Dark Ollie, Ra’s could have trained him in secret while Team Arrow was dealing with his loss and Brick back in Starling. Then have Oliver come back as a double agent, on the hunt for Merlyn. And have Team Arrow and The Atom needing to stop the Arrow, eventually bring him back from the brink and all of them taking the fight to Nanda Parbat, to the League and Ra’s for a big finale.

      The episodes of the back half of season 3 could have gone like this:
      310: Brick/Oliver’s brought back to life in the Lazarus Pit
      311: Brick/Oliver’s training in the League
      312: Brick/Oliver’s training in the League
      313: Brick/Ra’s Says Oliver is ready to go home for his final test.
      314: Oliver returns to Starling, acts off and duplicitous while facing Vertigo again
      315: Oliver secretly hunts for Merlyn/filler bad guy
      316: Oliver finds Malcolm. Kills him in final epic showdown.
      317: Team Arrow and Atom vs. Oliver
      318: Oliver cut off from resources. Diggle frees Slade to track Oliver down.
      319: Thea suits up. Team Arrow brings Oliver back from the brink.
      320: Oliver is good again, prepares everyone for an all out assault.
      321: Nanda Parbat showdown part 1
      322: Nanda Parbat showdown part 2, final confrontation with Ra’s

      Ah, sorry for the long message. I just want Arrow to be good.

      • Lex says:

        I’d watch that, especially if it was a “Special Moment” with Felicity that started turning him around, followed by Thea’s suiting up to confirm it.

        Felicity’s thematic role is to be Oliver’s light/humanity/conscience/whatever, so she would obviously be someone who gets through to him, usually it’s her speeches/faith/loyalty that get him going again when he shuts down or has doubts. It could possibly be a double-team with Diggle – showing Original Team Arrow reunited going into the final battle (after a season where they’ve all been thrown around to make sure Laurel and Ray become heroes instead of being the tight unit they are).

        Oliver would be having so many Feelings about Thea suiting up that he realizes how proud of her he is/how he wants to be a good example for her/how much he loves her/how much he wants to honor his family–the combo of Felicity and Thea is what brings him back because they were the two people he was thinking of prior to his death in The Climb (at least the ones who are still alive), and would be the strongest elements reminding him of who he was.

        Also? LET LAUREL TRAIN. I just wish we had a convincing training arc (complete with Eye of the Tiger montage showing her growth) so that when she puts on the mask it’s a Crowning Moment of Awesome and doesn’t constantly get her ass kicked while spouting embarrassingly bad lines. Let it happen at the end of the season where the fallout of her taking over Sara’s role lay groundwork for early season 4 conflicts.

        • ian says:

          Yup, completely agree. Felicity and Thea would be the ones to bring him back from the brink. His love for both of them would be strong enough. And I agree that Laurel needs more training, from Oliver, John or Nyssa, or all of them combined, to make her fierce, and able in amy different styles.

        • Amandalyn says:

          Agreed. I’ve been upset about how Laurel’s been handled, too, because damn it, it looks bad for female superheroes — and it certainly isn’t representative of Black Canary in the comics.

          • Anne says:

            I am sorry but Laurel just doesn’t have it when it comes to being a hero. Maybe later but for now nope, nota, besides I just plain don’t like the girl. They killed off the wrong Sara.

  5. Alichat says:

    Ray and Felicity…..ugh

    Oliver as Ra’s……ugh

  6. I think it’s cheap that they had Felicity sleep with Ray, I actually think Ray’s whole storyline is cheap (and sometimes Laurel) because the show is reducing Felicity to be the wonderful cheerleader of superheroes, and she deserves so much more than that. Also, I understand that Felicity and Oliver need to be separated or whatever it’s the typical romance story on TV, but I would prefer Felicity to try a normal relationship and be happy and not the magical key for turning a man a superhero.

    I love Felicity and I love Oliver, but in order for them to be in a relationship it’s okay for Felicity to move on and at the end realize that Oliver is it for her and viceversa. FELICITY SMOAK DESERVES BETTER.

    (And I hope the writers know the value that Felicity hold for the show, WE want to know more about her and get to know her, not just as a possible romantic partner but as the HERO that she is.)

    • CM says:

      Typical, and I mean very typical Hollywood romance.

      Each party has to sleep with someone else prior to them getting together. It’s romantic and epic.

      Something NEW would have been nice.

    • Lex says:

      Don’t you know? Felicity’s vagina is magical. It’s like having King Arthur knight you with Excalibur.

      Totally agree with you that Felicity deserves better. Sh has been wasted legitimizing other [much, much more boring and/or dislikable] characters all season. Maybe she should go to Central City for awhile. I think they’d actually appreciate her much more. I’d also prefer her to be friends-with-benefits with Barry instead of Ray – he’d totally get that it was temporary and she’ll be with Oliver in the end, they’re already adorable together so just imagine the witty banter, and Barry doesn’t have the creepy stalking tendency Ray does.

      Arrow would suddenly become this terrible, dark wasteland of a show without her, but at least she’d be doing her BAMF thing again instead of babysitting Ray or [justifiably] looking disappointed with Oliver.

    • Vicki says:

      That’s true. I’d like to get to know more about Felicity and the other characters. Maybe one episode be mostly about something that’s going on in her life while Oliver’s still fighting crime then another episode about Diggle and what’s going on in his life, and so on and so on. Sort of blend both ideas into each episode. To me the season seems like one big episode. Arrow fighting another villain to save the city. Same ole, same ole. :/

  7. herman1959 says:

    This episode was all KINDS of crazy, and some of it went over my head; thanks for the recap. Oliver can’t accept the offer but I’m not sure how he’s going to get out of it. That was more than enough ATOM for me – save it for the spin-off series – but, I do like Felicity with Ray.

  8. The only thing that could have made the episode just gone past better is if The Atom crashed on first flight and Ray would have to have dialogue with felicity along the lines of ‘I got the suit to work but I crashed’ I mean even Tony Stark struggled with flying the first time and it was like Ray just knew how to do it. Missed a good opportunity there I think. Other than that I think this episode was the best Arrow has had ever and I seriously can’t wait for the rest of the season.

  9. Sasha says:

    I want to like arrow right now but I can’t.

    I really can’t.

    I’ll still read the recaps and hope I’ll be able to watch it again but all hope is lost.

    I mean really? Oliver taking Ras’ place?

    Also ick on the Ray and Felicity front….Ive disliked what’s happened to her over the past 5 or 6 episodes but man…she really needs someone to NEED her doesn’t she?

    Like last season when she was all high and wanted to be Oliver’s Girl.

    When did she turn out to be this weird needy person?

    Or was it there all along?

    • Ashley says:

      Needy?! Because she was upset first about Oliver dying, then in her eyes learning nothing from it, then teaming up with their worst enemy?! I would call that her being right & sane. She challenges Oliver & calls him out when he’s wrong, that’s the opposite of needy. That’s doing the hard thing and being strong. But because Felicity is a woman, she’s called needy. And Sara’s death has hung over everything this season as well. Can’t expect happy and perky Felicity all the time when the season has been so dark so far.

      • Ashley says:

        And not only that, but Felicity understood Oliver when he explained why he had to go after Malcolm for Thea. She may not have liked it but she got it. This quiet understanding passed between them even when they were at odds, and Oliver addressed her with this softer tone that was so apparent. Their understanding comes out even in times like these. That’s why I love these two together.

  10. Sil says:

    Well, that was weird. I’m not understanding how the ending was go game changing. I really didn’t like it. Not at all.

  11. Felicity using Ray to make herself feel better is kinda typical. Can’t have what you really want so you grab the closest thing. Cant control Oliver so control Ray. I just don’t like the idea of loving someone (and mournjng thier death just weeks before) by sleeping with someone else. Is OOC and makes her look cheap. Oliver is right about Thea and it’s time team arrow start respecting the man who leads them and who has kept them all safe at one time or another. The level of disrespect is really annoying and Oliver doesn’t deserve that. It will be Intersting to see Rahs and Oliver new LOA prop and Nyssas reaction. Love Diggle is back to understanding who Oliver really is and that bro moment is classic team arrow. I can’t touch laurels BC stuff. It’s terrible beyond terrible. Oliver spoke for the whole fandom when he told her ” she didn’t need to be there” byeeeee Laurel!

    • John NYC says:

      Pointing out when a jackass is being a jackass isn’t “disrespect”, in fact it’s the duty of a team member. And Oliver has kept his “my way or the highway” attitude in full song.

    • Kai says:

      I get what your saying and I totally agree that sleeping with someone in the hope of getting over someone else is ridiculous. Unfortunately this not only happens all the time on TV, but in real life. I honestly can’t say that I didn’t see this coming. Felicity has been trying to get over Oliver for a while, and as a woman I can say that Ray makes it easy he looks good, he seems to be caring and attentive when she needs it, and he has that innate since of right of wanting in his own way to make Sterling City a better place, which is something I think Felicity saw in Oliver and what appeals to her in Ray.

    • Lex says:

      Oliver has been acting like an idiot all season by pushing people away and reverting back to season 1 when he didn’t let anyone help him. Now he’s pouting because people aren’t carrying out his commands? When he gets back to being the leader we know he can be, then we can renegotiate power relations on the team.

      Until then, we should just remember that Oliver and Sara hooked up pretty much for the same reason, even if it wasn’t implicit – they wanted to make themselves feel better because they couldn’t be with the people they love or whatever. Calling Felicity cheap makes Oliver even cheaper.

  12. Shelley says:

    Loving Arrow this season, especially this episode, has been a chore. I absolutely hated it. This has been my favorite show. Not now. It’s going to be hard to want to proceed from here.

  13. Totally underwhelmed by this twist. From the hype, I expected another character death. Obviously Oliver won’t become Ra’s, so thanks for playing. I actually liked Ray and Felicity, since Oliver is clearly not willing to be with her. She might as well have fun in the meantime. I expect an inevitable season finale Olicity coupling. Loved all the Thea scenes, she still has her humanity intact.

  14. Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na – Arrow.

  15. RB says:

    Now hold on. Regarding Ras, did they just pull a “Dread Pirate Roberts” on us?!??

    • KM says:

      Yes they did!

      • Rob Watkins says:

        No they didn’t. Ra’s al Ghul was never the character’s name, and this was always part of his character. He’s looking for a successor. In the comics, it was Batman and another time Bane. But the man we know as Ra’s was the first. It’s not about an identity to strike fear, it’s about his mission. With Dread Pirate Roberts it was about using the identity to strike fear into people.

    • Lex says:

      I wish. A Princess Bride reference at this moment would make everything more interesting. I’d actually watch something with “My name is Laurel Lance. You killed my sister. Prepare to die!” It would be one of the few times the writers have done a good job with her.

  16. cdeeinaz says:

    I am so frustrated with this show! I would be ever so happy if Felicity, Diggle and ATOM were the only ones left. I am so sick of Laurel, Thea and Oliver. Sick of Oliver’s brooding and Laurel’s whining and attempting to fight. Get a gun girl cuz you can’t fight.

  17. KM says:

    Seriously? Really? What are they thinking? I have a problem with the Felicity and Ray thing……NOT even remotely what should be happening…..and Oliver taking Ra’s place? What? NO…I am not liking the direction Arrow is going in….hopefully towards the end of the season will bring it back to where it was originally heading.

  18. Ashley says:

    First, after The Climb, any other twist they hype up will feel lackluster. THAT was a game changing twist. This? Meh. You know he won’t accept the position (at least, not right now, who knows). It’s just kind of woh woh woh.

    Second, are they still going that route towards a pilot for ATOM? I mean, I love Brandon Routh, and I like the character at times, but as time wears on, I’m liking his writing less and less, which doesn’t bode well for the idea that they want to make an ATOM pilot/series. These past couple of episodes without him have been fine and he hasn’t been missed; that should say something.
    What I’d like to see over that pilot though:
    1) Sara’s journey after she seemingly dies on the freighter; joining the League and falling in love with Nyssa.
    2) Suicide Squad series where Lyla leads up the team (overseen by Waller, both of whom will still recur on Arrow) of Deadshot, the Huntress, Cupid, and Deathstroke (immediately implanted with multiple bombs in order to ensure his compliance, recruited specifically for a mission regarding former ASIS agents he knows) (bonus: Manu and Cynthia on screen together again!!!)
    3) Arrowcave happenings from the perspective of Oliver and Felicity’s Love Fern.
    4) Literally anything else.

    • Dj says:

      I want to see what happened with Sara and her time in the LoA and how she fell in love with Nyssa. At one point the writers said there would be flashbacks of Sara time in the league, but for some reason it didn’t happen.

    • Lex says:

      5) John Diggle his own story instead of being treated as a New Hero Cheerleading Squad who sits back while the less-trained people with masks go out.

      I’m getting kind of sick of Digg and Felicity being used to legitimize Laurel and Ray – really don’t care about those two. The insistence of pushing them because they’re from DC comic canon instead of being original like Diggle or reinvented like Felicity has been really hurting the story since the show’s returned (and I still don’t see any Dinah Laurel Lance happening yet). They bore me. Let me see more of Daddy Diggle balancing vigilante and family life and more Felicity becoming her own hero instead of constantly having to support other, less interesting characters.

  19. Dj says:

    Not my favorite episode. But I did like seeing Laurel get schooled by Malcolm and more Thea goodness. Not sure where they will take her character, but I can’t wait to see what happens. Felicity annoyed me at times tonight, but my favorite part was her and Ray hooking up. If there is an Atom spinoff I hope they take Felicity.

  20. bbg123hi says:

    I actually really hope that he says yes. In the comics, it’s commonly Batman who Ra’s is trying to get as his successor, but bats always says no.
    I want Oliver say to say YES. I want this hero to fall, to shed any of his remaining humanity. he can go in thinking he can change what the league is, and fail utterly. I want him to take over as the demon’s head, so that he can almost be the “villain” of season 4. I think that would be amazing.
    the closest thing I can think of is Daredevil taking over the hand in comics. yes, that was handled terribly, but the idea was brilliant.
    I want Ollie as the demons head. I want the plot next year basically to be fighting him, to bring him back. of course by the end of season four he puts his hood back on, but that would make for a really good story

    as to ray and felicity, I really don’t care. let them go, let felicity and ray star in an atom show, which I won’t watch.
    I don’t watch superhero shows for the romance.

  21. CC says:

    I loved this episode! I totally wasn’t expecting the offer from Ra’s. It’ll be interesting to see what happens from here.

    As for Felicity and Ray, felt like a natural progression to me. They have good chemistry and let’s face it, Oliver has had his share of bed buddies. Felicity deserves someone who isn’t constantly pushing her away “for her own good”. I’m ultimately for an Oliver/Felicity pairing but he’s not ready to give her what she needs.

    Oh and the bro moment with Dig and Ollie. Awesome!!

  22. Drew says:

    I have to say, I am finding it harder and harder to cheer for Oliver this year. None of his decisions make sense. They’re just setting up the next big twist.
    The writers should have had Thea taken rather than Malcolm. At least then I would understand Oliver’s need to go. All of his arguments this week just made no sense and I didn’t buy that it tied back into the fall, because they have just dropped that issue over the past few weeks. Even his resurrection was glossed over.
    I liked Thea this week. Strong, logical story there. I like seeing Roy moving back to her, but slowly and in a more meaningful way than before.
    I liked Laurel’s reaction to Thea’s revelation. Laurel was a little heavy on the drama this week, but I guess it makes sense.
    Felicity… I don’t know. I’m not really feeling her anymore. I used to love how she lit up the screen. Now she is kind of a drag. Maybe she should take some time off from team Arrow and spend some time in Central City, just to get back to herself.
    Ray wasn’t too creepy this week! It is progress. Not sure I love the suit though. It is a little too Iron Man, isn’t it?
    And as usual, Diggle rules the world. While everyone questions Oliver and yells at him, Diggle can snap a finger and everyone obeys his command. He made the whole group leave the room TWICE in about five minutes. That’s awesome. He is the best character.
    And Malcolm can die now, right? Once and for all, just do away with him!

    • wonderwall says:

      I think she’s a drag because Ray drags her down. It’s because his scenes don’t add any value to the show. Ray is a non-entity thus Felicity’s scenes with Ray are non-entities which is annoying as hell. I’m tired of the show making Felicity a cheerleader. Sure she’s a good friend, but I want her to have her own THING. God this is tiring.

      • Gasna says:

        YES…get rid of Ray Palmer!!!! FInd your own show ATOM!

      • Drew says:

        It isn’t Ray’s fault (though I agree that he hasn’t really made a big impact). Felicity’s scenes with Oliver have been lacking as well. Even her relationship with Diggle seems watered down lately. I think that by trying to add drama to the Oliver/Felicity romance, the writers have started spinning their wheels with her. She needs to go somewhere at some point, but too much has been built up around her without payoff lately.

    • Harvey says:

      Agree completely about Oliver’s decisions, very stupid! I actually loved it when Dig told him there was another reason, cause I thought it would have something to do with Maseo or his family in some way, but it was just another stupid reason. I mean, till now they haven’t made Ra’s do anything worth being killed for, and Merlyn everything, and for saving Thea’s soul, come on writers! They got so good last season, what the hell happened!

  23. Ronnie says:

    Interesting how the comments about Felicity fall into the whole Madonna/whore level. Oliver was with Sara, Laurel, and The Huntress, just to name a few and nobody complained but Felicity becomes sexually vulnerable and all of a sudden she’s cheap. The double standard here are what’s wrong.

    • Drew says:

      People are upset because they think that she is in love with Oliver and it is weird for her to sleep with someone else while she loves him.
      Personally, I don’t think she loves Oliver. I think that her infatuation got a little out of control. The fantasy is not the reality. But that could be because I find the romance story to be really boring.

      • murley says:

        But according to the show Oliver was in love, or at least heading that direction, with Felicity when he was sleeping with Sara. I think there is definitely a double standard and the reaction to Felicity is hardly the first or only example of it.

        • Drew says:

          No there isn’t. Throw Oliver in bed with Laurel and see how people react.
          The Olicity shippers have been thrown a bone by producers and they are not going to let go of it easily.

          • murley says:

            Sorry, I am confused about how having Laurel sleep with Oliver would disprove the double standard people have regarding men’s and women’s sexuality. Can you please explain what you mean? Thanks.

          • Drew says:

            I mean that people aren’t upset that a woman is sleeping around. Thea slept with a random dude and nobody cared. The thing that people are upset about is that another man is near Felicity when she (in their minds) belongs with Oliver. When Oliver was with Sara or Helena, fans might have wanted him with Felicity, but it wasn’t a reality on the show. Now that the writers have thrown that Olicity bone to the fans, they will freak the he!! out if anyone else goes near either of them.
            This is similar to the Supernatural fans who will not tolerate any females near with Winchesters. They eve bring it into the real world, making rude comments to the actresses playing the love interests on the show.

          • murley says:

            I think both can be true. While there are certainly plenty of ‘olicity’ fans who are upset with Felicity because they want her with Oliver and can’t see past that, I think it is also true that there is a double standard when it comes to men and women regarding sexuality and that fact is playing a part in people’s reactions. There is a reason she is being called “cheap” and not “dumb” or “in denial” or whatever else people tend to say when it is a guy hooking up with someone other than his true love. I do agree your assessment of where the anger comes from though! I think you are right about that but what I am saying doesn’t contradict that. As I said, I think both things are true.

        • Harvey says:

          They made them tell each other they love each other, and then Felicity kissed Ray, he went back, gave a reason, good or bad, but still, and now she sees him shirtless again, and tries to look other way, but then ends up kissing him, that is bad writing, and thus makes her cheap. I mean what was the point of having Ray shirtless at the time, that was main thing that made her cheap, cause at that point it didn’t seem like she loved him, or liked him a lot, or there was a huge understanding. Overall writing seems she just wants somebody, Oliver or Ray, whoever it is.
          Shows have an obvious love between characters and then they make them sleep with others, but that’s not cheap because they both haven’t confessed, here it’s different, and done in a different manner. It’s not at all about gender.

        • Amandalyn says:

          Agreed. The double standard’s hypocritical to the point of choking.

          And let’s point out that Felicity has never once said she loved Oliver. We can infer a lot from her actions — and I think she wants to love the hero she thinks he can be — but she’s never once said it. I don’t think it’s a commitment she’s been willing to make because *he* hasn’t. Who can blame her?

      • Arsenal says:

        That’s exactly how I feel about it. Well said.

      • Lex says:

        I get what you’re saying, but I think you’re using “throw them a bone” incorrectly – it’s giving a little something to chew on while you wait for the main meal.

        Maybe you mean the writers have given Olicity a road block and that’s why [some] shippers are complaining?

        It should be noted that there are a lot of us who just shrug and think it’s fine – Oliver’s shut the door and Felicity has every right to move on – any savvy TV fan knows it’s temporary. It does not make her cheap, and thinking it does isn’t about shipping, it’s about what Ronnie said above: a Madonna/Whore complex where Oliver can have a revolving bedroom door but the minute Felicity is with someone else she’s “cheap.” Do I think it was 100% the best move? Not really, but it doesn’t bother me at all much, either.

    • Trish says:

      THIS!!!! Preach! The double standard that “society” supposedly places on women, actually feels more like women are placing them on one another about sexuality. Felicity hasn’t slept with anyone since she’s been on the show. People can have a seat with this sexist foolishness.

      • Drew says:

        It isn’t sexism. It is shipperism.

        • John NYC says:

          Indeed.

        • Nina Love says:

          Well this “shipperism” is pure nonsense then if there’s no logic to it.
          Oliver is not ready to be with Felicity right now, so you’d rather have her pine some more for Oliver and be all emotional at every turn THAN for her to be realistic and move on with her life.
          If on the other hand, Oliver hooks up with someone when he has said he cannot be with Felicity, then that can be something to be debated about. As it is right now, Felicity has no control of Oliver’s actions and she needs to move on.

    • Connie Edwards says:

      Couldn’t agree more–don’t forget last season’s one night quickie with Isabel, (Summer Glau)–but, hey, boys will be boys. Felicity has the right to move on and live her life, obviously Oliver doesn’t give a hoot what happens, as long as his brooding isn’t interrupted. I’ve watched Arrow since day one, but, seriously this season has been waay too soapy–liking The Flash more and more.

      • Um … how is Flash not soapy??
        Barry likes Caitlin a little … and still pining after Iris, who doesn’t give a f*** about him, except maybe NOW she wants him because he told her, except she’s still dating The Partner … oh and Caitlin’s fiancé is not dead but he doesn’t want her anymore …
        lol
        SO soap.

        • Harvey says:

          The problem in that is that it’s just the fans who start thinking they have feelings for each other because they are working together, I mean, till now they haven’t at all shown signs that would actually be of romantic attraction between Caitlin and Barry, liking each other in different ways here. And that is the way that one moves on, goes on a date and all, not kiss somebody, and then come back for the other, then goes back to the first one.

  24. James D says:

    that was the big twist everyone’s been talking about What? that was so stupid. I’m sorry but the back half of this season has been very disappointing IMO, with a few exceptions. What a complete waste of Ra’s Al Ghul and Matt Nable. I’m also really tired of everyone fighting Oliver on every little thing he does after all he’s been through you’d think they’d give him a little break. super sorry for the rant, but i found this episode to be a complete waste of my time. Only thing I liked was Atom dude looks like Judge Dredd :)

  25. Trish says:

    Loved Oliver and Diggle team up! It was long overdue and felt like the real Arrow TV show I’ve loved over the past 2 years. Olicity was heartbreaking. Felicity was so hurt that Oliver was going off to die…again. I’m sorry but I love it. This is good angst. She can’t save him. Can you say rebound? Although many of us fans predicted Ra’s wanting Oliver to be his predecessor weeks ago, it was still an OK episode. But Arrow should stop recycling Batman stories and then acting as if fans will be surprised. Just a thought. I screamed for joy when Oliver told Laurel to basically leave. And Malcolm kicking her *** was sublime. Bout time. Bye Oliver & Laurel. Now THAT was funny.

    • LOL … it really was the best 20 or 30 seconds, Laurel getting her ass handed to her by Malcolm.

    • Gasna says:

      couldn’t have said it better myself! The two scenes between Laurel and Oliver “I can’t believe there was a time I was in love wit you” (yeay-the death knell to Lauliver)…Oliver “you don’t belong here” (love-love-love!)….

    • Lex says:

      The “you don’t belong here”? I’m pretty sure the majority of the fandom has been saying that the entire season. Felicity’s pretty much been pushed out of the foundry and into the B-storyline so Laurel can have something to do (when everything ran pretty smoothly – if not better – without her).

      Great way to use your breakout, fan-favorite character, guys.

      • Dj says:

        I just don’t see that. All season long Felicity has been shown as the voice of reason that gives sanctimonious speeches because she knows what’s best for Oliver, Laurel, Ray, Quentin and team arrow in general. She hasn’t been pushed out or sidelined. Now Diggle has been the one sideline/pushed aside to tell Laurel story.

  26. GirlvsTV says:

    I really miss BAMF season 1 Oliver. You remember, the guy who actually had a brain and wasn’t a complete moron. Also, there was nothing surprising about that rip off cliffhanger. People have been calling that Batman storyline since they announced Ra’s would be on the show.

    • Drew says:

      Agreed. The no-kill policy started this downward spiral for him. Now it seems like everyone can kick his butt and he hasn’t been too bright lately.

  27. Ugh, it frustrates me that you had to go and put the ‘Felicity sleeping with her boss, Ray Palmer’ in there. You could have just said, she sleeps with Ray. Felicity is Ray’s equal in every way at Palmer Technologies, and he’s even stated that in the show. By alienating that she ‘slept with her boss’, it adds in so many negative connotations about how she got her job and such.

    It’s such a piss off that right after everyone praised Patricia Arquette for her Oscar speech regarding equality, that you choose to use such a mysoginst statement when addressing an incredibly strong fictional character.

    • Amandalyn says:

      Agreed! That’s what gets me sometimes. You see it a lot on Tumblr, too — people who are all about strong women and women making choices and such — and then the first time a fictional character actually ACTS like a strong woman who’s not hanging around like a sick puppy and moving on with her life, they start slutshaming her.

      Hypocrisy, thy name is fandom.

      • Anne says:

        I totally agree. She is a strong independent woman why should she not sleep with Ray. Maybe fandom has put Oliver on a pedestal. Take him off it please for he is no saint in this show. I say Felicity you couldn’t have slept with a better man.

      • Yeah that really irritates me. Like I’m sorry that’s she’s moving on. Do I personally think she and Oliver are endgame? Yes. Do I think Ray’s motives are all pure and good? No. But at the end of the day, Felicity is the one who makes choices for herself. People who are slut shaming her need to step in front of a bus. Women are allowed to be sexual beings, and we shouldn’t prevent them from doing so

  28. RAR says:

    He’s not going to accept, because this is basically Ra’s wanting Batman to take over, and Batman constantly turning him down, only in Arrow (since they already use so many minor Batman villains and concepts anyway, like mirakuru/venom).

  29. Heidi says:

    Whoa. Game Changer and yeah for Ray and Felicity. Best Epi ever.

  30. Sara says:

    WOW a lot of negative comments on here tonight. I thoroughly enjoyed this weeks episode, I paid extra attention hoping for the big OMG moment. It was not that big of deal as people predicted this 6 months ago. The episode was good in that it had a lot of action and good dialogue..definite turn off was Felicity sleeping with Ray, I know this is the CW but I am sorry because that was out of character for Felicity…if she wanted to jump somebody’s bones just to for the sake of it she would’ve done it to Oliver last season. OK maybe she just wanted to get some and Ray being all shirtless made it easy for her…but it still so out of character. I guess they’re working on a new Felicity this season, I don’t recognize her anymore. I am just glad they saved us from witnessing the whole scene.

    • Gasna says:

      I hated this episode and all for the reasons you mentioned! Felicity doesn’t feel like Felicity any more. And that scene with Ray…arghhhh…damn I need to wash my mind with a strong bleach after having seen THAT!!! YUCK!!!

  31. anybody catch when Ra’s said 1854 Ra’s al Ghul been around along time . I think he could have using the pit in the beginning.

  32. Linda says:

    “For right now, Oliver has decided that [he] can’t do this, and Felicity’s not just going to sit around waiting for him. ” I thought Oliver decide he COULD do that w/Felicity and went to her only to see her kissing Ray. If he then told her or even after, she probably wouldn’t be with Ray.

  33. Briggs says:

    I don’t know what’s up with all the whining when AK said that the whole Ray thing was a setback, not endgame. Of course, this could be just because I lost my stepdad in the early hours this morning, so I can’t be made to take this as seriously as anyone else. Just as well that I have to wait to watch it. Have fun debating, guys.

    • Drew says:

      That sucks. I’m sorry for your loss.

      • Briggs says:

        Thank you, Drew. :) I know we’ve had our moments, but it’s nice to know that the Arrow community can pull together when real life happens and loss occurs. I announced my hiatus in another forum and nearly everyone that had any credibility in my eyes came forward to console me, Olicity fan or not. If I’d ever lost my faith in humanity, this sort of thing would restore it. :)

    • murley says:

      Sorry to hear about your loss. That is really rough.

    • Lex says:

      My sympathies. Take your time to be with your family. It’s not like we won’t be here when you get back, making the same arguments but with more cannon fodder (canon fodder – did you see what I did there?!) to rip apart and dissect to support our stances. We’re not going anywhere.

      Again, my condolences.

      • Briggs says:

        Thank you so much. My mood is improved by posts like this. I’m excited for when I get to do this again in 3 or more weeks. See you then. :)

  34. Carter says:

    Ra’s has only been ok with Batman replacing him as the Demon’s Head. Granted that’s the comics but it just feels weird for anybody else being considered…other that Thalia Al Ghul.

  35. MoshiMoshi says:

    Loved the episode!!! I’m obsessed with Ra’s al Ghul… and Ray in the ATOM suit was almost as sexy as the first time i saw Iron Man

  36. John NYC says:

    More Kristina Law is always welcome!

    Looking forward to how Thea survives this one.

    • Patch says:

      This is not my thing. Not interested in this kind of stories. Done as well.

      • Jill says:

        Am done as well. Sick of how they have changed the character of felicity, Oliver making stupid decisions for stupid reasons, Laurel messing up as BC. I think the only character I now look forward to seeing is thea. I don’t even mind if she turns out good or bad.

  37. Rab says:

    Well, unlike so many of you it seems, I enjoyed the end-twist. I didn’t enjoy Felicity shagging her boss so much, ‘cos having her was my fantasy. I’d really like Ollie to grow some balls and stop this stupid hand-wringing bollox. He’s a vigilante. Bumping off the baddies goes with the territory. You gotta kill some bad bastard? Just do it and move on. This shouldn’t be a showcase for PC whiners. Harden Ollie up, writers!

    • Alexis says:

      I also loved the episode! Great character development for Thea, Roy, Laurel, Diggle, etc. I liked the twist at the end with Oliver and the League of Assassins. And thank God the whole #Olicity craziness is over! I like Felicity with Ray and hope they get their own show next season FAR AWAY from Arrow.

  38. Jihad Raya says:

    I seem to be one of the only people who liked this episode and understood it for what it is. This is a superhero show. End of story. Romances are nice sure, but they are not even close to being the most important thing. It doesn’t matter who Felicity sleeps with because at the end of the day the show is not about her. I feel I have to say this again. It is a superhero show called ARROW. It is the green arrow’s origin story, not who will Oliver end up with.He needs to be knocked down. I quite like the path that they’re taking. The writing has been really good and it was well paced. A lot of people were talking about how sleeping with Ray cheapens Felicity but I don’t get that. Okay, he’s her boss, so what, it happens. It doesn’t cheapen the character. Olicity fan-girls have a problem with the way their ship is going but SPOILER ALERT, he ends up with Laurel anyway at the end of the show. If you watch for the romance there are a bunch of dramas for you but a superhero show is not one of them.

    The Ra’s thing I liked, not only because it is a good and interesting direction for the show to take, but also in terms of character development. Everyone assumes he will not take the role, but I don’t see why they can’t go in that direction. It would make for compelling television. Everyone is complaining about the twist being over-hyped but that is probably because you think it is some romance thing that would happen.

    Anyway anyone notice how they’re ripping off batman.

    • Sam says:

      I agree 100%. Although I didn’t think that they were completely ripping off from Batman mythos. From my understanding, Ra’s has had others who he finds acceptably to be his successor but ultimately he wanted Bruce Wayne bc he was the best of them all. Consequently, the true “heir to the demon” become Talia. Correct me if I’m wrong.

      • Lea says:

        As far as I remember, he only ever considered Bruce or Bane as his heir — alongside Talia, never disowning her (like it seems will happen to Nyssa).

    • Harvey says:

      It’s not about the romance for me, I don’t even like felicity as much as diggle, it’s just the character development thingy. And actually this season’s gotten too much non-Arrow which also isn’t awesome.

    • Patrica says:

      I also watch the show for what it is. Fans are too harsh hating the show. A show needs some twists and changes in order to evolve and not get stucked up in the same thing. This is a superhero show not a romance show evne ir romances do need to happen on superhero shows but romance is not the most important part of a superhero show.

    • Donna says:

      Remember, it was clearly stated previously that only the student can kill the master. Oliver knows that he must be a student of R’as al Ghul to learn how to defeat him, which is why he allied himself with Malcolm in the first place, because it was the closest he could get to the real thing. Oliver will accept this new role, and they’ll get lots of episodes out of his moral struggle with it, not to mention at least one or two world-size ego trips from Oliver in his quest to right all the wrongs of the world. But it all comes down to one thing: Only the student can kill the master.

  39. chuck says:

    I love the show, and all that has happened up to thus point.
    Thus theory line is from The Batman mythos, and should not have been touched upon. I enjoy the league in the Arrowverse, but leave it as that.

  40. Sam says:

    Great episode and not so much of a shocker. I believe in the DC Universe that Ra has others that he viewed as his successor. Bruce Wayne for example. What shocked me is why Nyssa still alive? I’m so annoyed by her character bc every time she makes an appearance is all about Sara, Sara, Sara! And “daughter to Ra al Guh!” “Heir to the Demon!” That is why she is being replace.

  41. John NYC says:

    A good puzzle. How does Oliver turn down Ra’s and survive?

  42. nikki says:

    Why isn’t Lance in more episodes? The most interesting thing on Arrow right now is the father/daughter dynamic of Quentin and Laurel.

    Yes Felicity! You go girl!

  43. aw says:

    Loved Diggle and Oliver scenes, but not Felicity and Ray sleeping together. I don’t mind them kissing but that’s as far as they should have went tonight. Liked the design of the ATOM suit, but not the size of it, it’s way too bulky on Ray. I think Ray needs to work out more, needs to have more muscles like Oliver.

    • Gasna says:

      I HATED tonight’s episode of ARROW. I have soooo many issues but the one that sticks at number 1: Felicity sleeping with Ray-YUCK! And my first thought??…a half naked Ray is mehhhh…he needs more muscle! There’s no way he’s any competition for our boy Oliver-yum!!

      • Amandalyn says:

        …did you seriously say a half-naked Brandon Routh is yuck?

        …are you insane?

        They’re both attractive men. And he does have definition (and a damned nice iliac furrow, aka Adonis Belt, aka those diagonal lines of muscle around the hipbones.)

  44. Carla Krae says:

    Loved it! Nice seeing Oliver getting the offer, as usually it’s been Bruce Wayne.

  45. Joey Padron says:

    Good to see Oliver & Diggle teaming up again like in season 1. Not good idea Laurel trying to fight Malcolm. I don’t think Oliver will take Ra’s offer. Good to see Ray in Atom suit flying around. Sucks the wait for next episode will be a bit long.

  46. Chiranjit Bose says:

    the writers should now make everybody sleep with everybody

  47. Lea says:

    “Rather than killing Queen, Ra’s al Ghul announced that he wanted the archer to replace him as the leader of the League of Assassins”

    And once again, the writers act like this is a Batman fanfic.

    • Would love to see Oliver accept the offer from Ra’s al Ghul with no on on team arrow knowing about it. Have the league start working on the right side of the law and Oliver also being the Arrow. You could have so many different story lines running off this.

  48. AJJJ says:

    So how does Roy have a FRECKIN’ Dodge Challenger SRT and giving money to the family of the cop he killed? I thought he was poor?!

    • How DARE you dirty this show with your … LOGIC!
      Philistine!

    • John NYC says:

      Poor people are often the most generous and for a struggling family a modest sum spent on groceries or to help with a heating bill can make a difference disproportionate to the actual dollar amount.

      And it’s not like he spends money on his clothes….

    • Kai says:

      Actually he is the manager of the night club Thea owns. She made him manger at the beginning of the season when she got back with Merlyn.

  49. It’s very odd …

    I was ready to give up on this show, and I skipped all the Faux Canary episodes that came prior. I was going to decide after seeing “Nanda Parbat” whether to walk away from Arrow for good or not.

    Unlike a lot of people … I actually … want to see the next episode. I’ve still got next to ZERO confidence in the producers … but I still wanna see, strangely enough, for now, where it goes.

    • herman1959 says:

      I’m also looking forward to the next episode because I can’t imagine how Arrow will get out of his predicament – isn’t that what a comic-book show should be about?