WILL THERE BE ANOTHER CANARY?Echoing that which he shared in his TVLine Q&A, Guggenheim says, “We’ll play with that notion in Episode 19,” which guest-stars Supernatural huntress Madison McLaughlin in a mystery role. That said, “I don’t know if I'd say [the Canary mantle] is up for grabs.”

Arrow EPs Talk Laurel Promo, Planting of 'Seed' and Black Canary's Return

Argue, if you will, that “everybody knew!” how Arrow was bringing back original cast member Katie Cassidy, as seen at the close of the winter finale. The fact remains that the promo for the CW drama’s midseason return (airing Wednesday, Jan. 25) reveals a bit too much to Joe Viewer (versus Sammy Spoilerholic) about how exactly it is that Oliver is seeing dearly departed Laurel Lance alive in the Arrowcave.

Because make no mistake, Arrow‘s showrunners — who, as with the bosses of most TV series, have no hand in creating promos — would have preferred that secret (which we won’t regurgitate here) to have been kept a few weeks longer.

Following his appearance at the Television Critics Association winter press tour (for The CW’s “Behind The Heroes” VFX discussion/demonstration), Arrow co-showrunner Marc Guggenheim was asked about the aforementioned overshare. “Without commenting on the promo, which I have nothing to do with…,” he diplomatically responded, “[and] without commenting on the spoiler, I would say that the episode ends with laying a very specific seed, with a very specific game plan on our part that we hope to see come to fruition.”

RELATED Arrow’s Oliver/Susan: What Is (and Isn’t) Happening Between Them

Whatever the circumstances of Laurel’s seeming resurrection, seeing her familiar face back in the Arrowcave has bolstered talk that a Black Canary will return to Green Arrow’s crimefighting side.

Asked if a Canary might suit up as soon as by Season 5’s end, co-showrunner Wendy Mericle told TVLine, “There’s definitely a possibility.”

The EP went on to note, “Look, it’s hard to do a show about Green Arrow without having a Black Canary. I don’t know if it will happen this season or when, but… we are going to be true to origins in the DC universe, and she’s always going to be there.”

Are you ready for Team Arrow to again have a Black Canary?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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135 Comments
  1. Ray says:

    Anybody else nervous they said A Black Canary instead of The Black Canary?

    • rob horine says:

      as far as I’m concerned, Katie Cassidy is ONLY a Black Canary.

      • 134sc says:

        Disagree. In my opinion shes very replaceable. But if shes not, tgats cool too. I dont gave strong feelings either way

    • Agent 86 says:

      Yes. I fully except to see a new character introduced to accept the mantle of Black Canary, NOT Katie Cassidy / Laurel Lance. The new character will probably be called Donna / Diana Drake / Dance just to mess with our heads even more.
      I don’t know why they feel the need to treat the character of Laurel Lance (and the actor Katie Cassidy) so disrespectfully. Laurel Lance had finally started to show some real promise and purpose in the episodes before she was fridged to sate the further development of Oliver Queen / Green Arrow.

    • Yep. That, to me, means they are making this new character Tina the BC, not whatever version of Laurel Lance this is. And then I will be done, because this show is a piss poor “adaptation” of the Green Arrow mythos…..

    • GUSTAVO ALCALA says:

      KATIE CASSIDY RULES!!!!!!! PRODUCERS LEARNED THEIR LESSON WITH SLUMPING RATINGS AFTER LAURELS DEATH!!!!!! IF LAURELS RESURRECTION IS A STUNT I AND MILLIONS OF FANS WILL AGAIN BOYCOTT ARROW AND IT WILL SURELY BE CANCELLED!!!!!

      • All shows ratings suffered this last fall, so that’s not a great indicator of what the fandom thought. And the show just got renewed for a sixth season, so cancellation is unlikely.
        .
        As a side note, the caps lock should be used sparingly.

  2. You had Black Canary which you then killed to push Olicity, so trying to backtrack with A black canary clone is not going to work at all. But good luck

    • L says:

      This doesn’t make sense to me. Olicity were a thing long before BC was killed off. Olicity was pushed two seasons before Laurel died. Come on now.

      • lilyb says:

        Right? They were going to get married when Laurel was still kicking. What a tired argument, LOL.

        • L says:

          I know, I’m just confused by that logic. They can hate Olicity all they want but at least make sense in arguments, please.

          • Shawn Spencer says:

            Because in Laurel’s last couple episodes in season 4, she had more chemistry with Oliver than Felicity could ever have with him, so they saw that as a threat to their little garbage ship known as “Olicity” so they killed off Black Canary to get her out of the picture

          • @Shawn, that’s an opinion. Yes, the writing was better, but if I’m right about this, it was in prep to kill her off. In order to make her death have more resonance, they had to show her being important to the team again. Hence the improved writing and her importance being underlined early in the season, particularly through Thea.

      • Ray says:

        Some people have a problem with Olicity no matter if BC is around or not. The bigger uproar seems to be that Black Canary was killed off to take away the option. I’m tired of the argument also, but yours not mine. Lol

        • JC1 says:

          That argument assumes that Laurel was actually an option, which I do not believe. I’m not an Olicity fan. I think if EBR had never come along it would have been someone else. Maybe Sara. Maybe someone we never met. But I firmly believe they were never going back to Lauriver after season one, whether Olicity had happened or not.

          • Shawn Spencer says:

            Lol you keep hating as much as you want, it won’t change the fact that Felicity never had any good chemistry with Oliver. Their relationship was toxic, pure garbage.

          • JC1 says:

            Lol I never said anything about Felicity’s chemistry with Oliver. (But if we’re going to talk about a relationship that’s toxic and pure garbage….*cough*)
            .
            Look I don’t actually have a dog in this fight. I couldn’t care less if Felicity and Oliver get back together or not. I don’t hate them, and I don’t love them.
            .
            However. It is my firm belief that if they had cast a different actress in the Laurel role (perhaps Amy Gumenick, who has said a couple of times that she auditioned for it) Olicity would never have happened. Olicity happened because their plan A failed. Pure and simple, and if it hadn’t been Olicity it would have been something else. That’s my opinion.

          • Just because you replace ‘Laurel’ with ‘Felicity’ doesn’t mean you have a brand new argument. It just means you have no burden of proof for your claim.

        • dancmh says:

          So people blame Olicity for global warming, the Trump presidency, and season three of Heroes.

      • MangoMagic says:

        Although I can’t speak for OP, I can try to shed some light on this. Yes, Olicity was established two seasons prior but one can argue that BC/Laurel’s death pushed it further. Her last words were a request for Olicity, which for many comic book fans, was an insult to a character with decades of rich history both with and without the Green Arrow/Oliver Queen. Think of it this way, if I was going to pair up Superman and a random and then kill off Lois Lane (after completely ignoring everything that makes Lois, Lois; everything that makes her a vital part of the superman mythos), having Lois encourage Clark to shack up with the random while she’s on her death bed would be a bit…cold.

        • I can understand this, and the logic works… if she were the only one doing it. She wasn’t. And I happen to think her wanting Oliver to be happy is perfectly in keeping with the character *as she was portrayed on the show*.
          .
          The version of BC on the show wasn’t the one we had in the comics, and I’m still confused when people try to act like she was. Arrow is, at best, an AU, and anything on it, the same. I never saw Laurel as the definitive BC because she had hardly anything that made BC, BC in the comics.
          .
          Therefore, bringing comic canon into this seems to indicate you think the show was doing comic canon at any point. It wasn’t. What it gave us was a lot of stuff that nods *to* the comics, but nothing that lifted directly from the source material whole cloth.
          .
          Arrow being an AU, and Laurel being an AU version of BC (she never went by Dinah, for instance), the idea that somehow this Alternate Universe could do anything to damage the comics is ridiculous.
          .
          Laurel is not Dinah Laurel Lance.
          .
          She’s Laurel Lance. A character independent of the comics and given her own history that doesn’t survive anywhere near those colorful pages.
          .
          That being the case, I think she can pretty much do anything she wants. And I’m sure she’d agree with me.

          • 134sc says:

            Very well said. Ive been trying to push this idea since she was killed off, but nobody wants to listen.

          • They’ve fallen for an idealized version of the character. She’s not perfect, and was never all that close to her counterpart in terms of sticking to canon, but they seem to ignore that. And the fact that they complain about lack of fealty to the comics in just about every way but with Laurel.

          • MangoMagic says:

            Again, I don’t presume to speak on behalf of the entire fandom. This is just me and my speculations.
            .
            You are very right that Laurel wasn’t the only Olicity cheerleader. However, in this case for many fans, everyone drinking the kool-aid is’t the point. The point is that Laurel, Oliver’s canon love interest, pushed for it and on her death bed. For many folks that was the proverbial “adding insult to injury”. Not only did EPs not come through with canon love line but they shelved it for a new (and some argue unfounded) relationship predominantly favored by viewers not familiar with the comics and mythos of GA/BC. For a major Green Arrow fan, finally seeing him on screen is…honestly, there are no words to describe the feeling. It’s how I felt when I saw my favorite superhero on the big screen. For some fans, to get that chance to see beloved characters literally come alive only to have EPs snatch them away with shoddy management is hurtful and infuriating.
            .
            Yes, Arrow is pretty much an AU. Now. Beyond some name recognition and a few Batman-ish plot lines, Arrow =/= Green Arrow. The version of Oliver Queen, Thea, Laurel Lance are so far from canon, trying to argue that “Arrow” is canon is an uphill battle at this point. However, that’s not what many comic book fans (particularly the die hard ones) went in expecting when the show first premiered. They went in expecting Green Arrow and came out with something completely different. Can you blame them? If a network announces they’re going to do a show based on a comic book character, it seems only logical to think they’ll borrow heavily from source material. I think it’s appropriate for comic fans to expect canon; why would they assume they’re going to get an AU? I remember growing up with Smallville. Initially Clark was with Lana and I was cool with Lana because I knew she wasn’t endgame. Endgame for Clark/Superman is Lois Lane (though the current reboot would have you assume otherwise lol). GA fans probably thought the same thing…up until they murked their previous leading lady.
            .
            Now “traditionalists” as I like to call them, realize Arrow =/= Green Arrow so they’re raging. I can’t blame them. I’d be beyond livid if they rebooted Smallville, killed off Lois and paired Clark with Chloe (Clark/Chloe ironically was a thing back then lol). It’s not so much about comics being “damaged” as it is about what appears to be “false advertising”. It’s sort of like they got comic book fans hooked with “ABCs” and then threw “12345”.

          • Why would they assume they were getting an AU?
            .
            Smallville. That’s why.
            .
            Not to mention, AS A COMIC BOOK FAN, I stopped expecting canon when Thea came down to greet Oliver as the little sister he never had in the comics.
            .
            If you expected them to borrow heavily from canon after that pilot, you were going to be disappointed.
            .
            Not only that, but if the canon love interest has WORKED, they would have gone with it. They never did a chemistry test for Amell and Cassidy, and you can see what good it did them.
            .
            At the end of the day, when people argue for canon, I know they’re asking for the love interest.
            .
            When those same people then deride shipping… that’s when I pull out the hypocrisy stick. So I have issues with what I see as a GIGANTIC double standard.
            .
            This problem has just as much to do with no romantic chemistry between the leads than them listening to the fans. Especially since they’re at least five eps ahead of the fans, so by the time fans met Felicity, she’d already been written into four more episodes, so…

          • Max says:

            @MangoMagic
            Call it an opinion but making a point by comparing Clark & Lois to Dinah & Ollie is almost blasphemy to me. Here’s a reminder that Smallville’s own Green Arrow did marry and have a kid with Chloe, someone whose codename is not Black Canary despite introducing BC in the show.
            .
            We’ve all watched the same pilot. We’ve all been told they were using “CHARACTERS inspired by” their comics counterpart. You get that reminder every episode during the credits so I don’t see the false advertising you speak of. They didn’t promise you to pick storylines from canon, to which the following question would be: which canon? You can’t be a comics fan and not accept flexibility, even more so than regular tv viewers. But if we’ve all watched the same pilot, you should have realized how much they’ve played with canon with every character. Is Speedy Oliver’s sister? Does John Diggle even exist? Does Dinah have a sister? Has Dinah ever been a lawyer? Isn’t Felicity Smoak supposed to be a middle aged woman who’s also firestorm’s stepmother? Did Merlyn have a son before the New 52?
            .
            You can’t fundamentally change the characters, hire living actors to portray them, and not expect them to change the relationships too and go with the flow depending on what translates better on screen and in writing. You’re just cherry picking on which canon matters. Oliver & Laurel have been over since season 2 episode 1 and the writers never intended to go back there for numerous reasons. Oliver proposed to Felicity and called her his always or whatever while Laurel was alive and well. Where was this outrage back then for butchering their relationship right from their messed up backstory? And then your answer would be: as long as they’re endgame while wearing their superhero suits because comics even if it doesn’t line up with the show’s canon. To me, that doesn’t make sense.

    • This was exactly my thought. To have the nerve to say they would “be true to origins in the DC universe” after what they did last season is outrageous. They greatly underestimated the number of comic fans that were watching this show hoping they would eventually course correct who like myself gave up and stopped watching the show. They were obviously not expecting that backlash and now they are scrambling to fix it.

      • Max says:

        Please if you’re talking numbers, at least do your research. Currently, there’s 40-50k Green Arrow readers. That’s insignificant to a tv show with 3 millions viewers in the US alone. Different medium, different audience. The rebirth edition of GA dropped by 50% in less than 6 months. That’s not a lead you should follow… If you want an explanation for this, think Geoff Jones. This is a crowd that doesn’t care about Laurel, the character from the tv show. They are about the comics counterpart, like most people who participated in this backlash you speak of.

        • Jim says:

          All comics drop about 50% from their issue #1 numbers. That’s standard. Just saying.

        • Maria says:

          I still don’t think they get it. MG said this specifically “80,000 comic book fans doesn’t sustain a show.”

          Or along those lines. It’s true. I don’t know what else anyone can say. Most LL fans are so deluded.

    • Maria says:

      It’s these comments that make me laugh at people who “liked” Laurel. If she was so good you wouldn’t even pay attention to Olicity.

      • Hmm says:

        It’s hard to ignore something when it’s being shoved down your throat every single episode. Stop trying to demean Laurel fans with stupid attempts to undercut her importance.

        • Her importance? Please stop acting like she was her comic counterpart. She wasn’t. They’d reduced her to another mask on the team, so other than her link to Oliver’s past, her importance wasn’t as great as you seem to think it is.
          .
          Unless any comic version was a kick-boxing vigilante by night, lawyer by day, Laurel was a complete AU. Full stop.

  3. JC1 says:

    Black Canary 3.0 is a go!

  4. Smurffette says:

    NOW you care about Black canary?! Before it was Black canary is expendable. It’s not a comic book. We can change things etc. But after the HUGE backlash they are now praising Black Canary.

    Here is the thing. Dinah laurel Lance is Black Canary. That is who we were upset you killed. Stop acting as if her name sake is something you can give to any random person.

    They seriously don’t understand the backlash was over Laurel!!! Her being Black Canary was only part of it!

    • kath says:

      The original Black Canary was Dinah Drake, who married Larry Lance, and later Oliver Queen after Lance died.
      It was only after the 1983 reboot that the Black Canary became the mother/daughter characters of Dinah Drake Lance and her daughter Dinah Laurel Lance who has the metagene for the Canary Cry. It’s the latter who gets into a relationship with Oliver Queen after divorcing her first husband.

      If they give the metagene for the Canary Cry to this new character, maybe because Star Labs blew up, it continues the continuity of the Black Canary. Somewhat, anyway.

      • Smurffette says:

        Boy bye!

        Like I said dianah Laurel Lance is the black canary. Not Tina, not random chick 1 2 or 3.

        All this is, is more disrespect to the comic book community and Katie Cassidy herself

        • kellyzollo says:

          Yep preach! They were too lazy to give Laurel the cry, though it would have been super easy with the premiere of the Flash and a number of different ways but now they can for their newbie? They can keep it.

        • HOW was Laurel like her comic counterpart? I mean, she has the name (though she went by the middle name, which made no sense, even with her mother in the picture), the cop father, and the alter ego. She has virtually nothing else.
          .
          And before you expound on how KC got the SPIRIT of the character… You could argue that point. But the fact remains that she had almost nothing the comic version has, and no amount of mirroring comic book poses is going to change that.

          • Jim says:

            Yup. They made a character, named her Dinah Laurel Lance, and now everyone acts like that makes her the Black Canary. Because of what her name was, and literally nothing else about her. (And yet Jimmy Olsen can be Guardian on Supergirl and THAT’S okay, right?). I like Katie Cassidy just fine, but she was an anchor around the neck of this show weighing it down. Not her fault. Poor casting (Caity Lotz was excellent casting, btw), and poor writing for her character. I mean, just hilariously poor writing. So killing her off was just triage. The writers put themselves in this position where they had to make a choice on what they could possibly do about the problem that the character was, and they picked the one that would hurt the show less. But it still hurt the show some. And that’s why we get endless moaning instead of people accepting it was all botched from the start and getting over it. Of course, they also botched her death, but hey, why would they stop screwing up then?

          • I find it incredibly funny that her name makes her the Black Canary, really. I mean, why? They certainly don’t hold Stephen Amell to the same standard, but then, he was dead to them when he started shipping Olicity.
            .
            Even if she’s an AU version of DLL, she needs to have more than two or three characteristics of the comic counterpart.
            .
            And yes, Caity Lotz did quite well. She wasn’t ‘iconic’, according to some fans, but she had the training, a similar outfit, and a relationship with Oliver in the suit. Not to mention, she actually resembles the character in the comics (as in, she’s the right body type; not body shaming KC, just stating she’s the right height and build), and of course, the cop father.
            .
            If I were looking for a Black Canary in the Arrowverse, she’s the one I’d pick.

          • Max says:

            I would have loved it if they changed their plans earlier and kept Sara as black canary. Her origin story was memorable with the canary landing on the piece of wood floating on the water (instead of just taking on someone’s else mantle to honor them). She had most of her personality traits and she has a great connection with Oliver because of their experience on the island. Even if their romantic relationship ended in season 2, logically so, their bond is still strong as friends and partners with a shared history. Fact is the producers had promised Katie Cassidy the mantle, and it failed. And now they’re setting up Tina to fail because the viewers are over it all.

          • Smurffette says:

            Hmmm let’s see. She believe in justice. Didn’t believe in killing. She had hope. She embodies the essence of DLL. You haters make me laugh as if fighting is all it takes to be the canary.

            Dead or alive you haters are still obsessed with laurel and still comment on any article about her. And even more upset that despite what you thought, there was a heavy negative reaction to her death.

          • kath says:

            Laurel did refer to herself as “the justice you can’t run away from ” but she spent season 2 – 4 being fine with killing bad guys and emptying her gun into them. Even in season 3, Oliver had to keep her from killing.

          • Max – I think they’re really trying to hit the reset button, and if it is Tina, they might be pressing a little too hard.

          • Smurfette – She didn’t believe in killing, but was willing to shoot a man she thought killed Sara in s3? Now, yes, she was grieving, but don’t act like this was a constant thing. If we had to be told constantly she was for justice because they had no time to show us, why were they bothering?
            .
            Here’s my problem: what she really had was the essence of a CW heroine. With a little DLL twist. And they turned her back into a doormat at the end by having her say she was still in love with him, when her portrayal from S3 on couldn’t be further from that if it tried. This guy literally cheated *with her sister*, but Laurel was still in love with him.
            .
            They butchered the character, and made her into something I don’t recognize as *my* Black Canary. Smallville was much closer to canon.

          • JC1 says:

            @Smurfette, I’m honestly bewildered at where this idea comes from that Laurel was against killing. In season two, she put several bullets into a masked guy she thought was Brother Blood. She would have killed Komodo in season three had Oliver not taken the bullets out of her gun. She had no qualms whatsoever about turning Malcolm over to Ra’s (something I agree with her on btw – Oliver was an idiot). She may have been against dropping people left and right, but this idea that she was anti-killing period is not based on what happened in the show. I almost laughed when Oliver said at her grave that he knew she wouldn’t have wanted him to kill Darhk. Ha! Based on what we saw in the show, she would have been cheering him on.

          • Jim says:

            Yes, I forgot about all my comics where Black Canary is a district attorney who becomes an alcoholic after having two glasses of wine in a row one time. Whoops.

  5. L says:

    Wow. I was never a big fan of Laurel, I think they made many missteps with casting and character writing over the seasons but yikes if they’re gonna try BC not being Laurel. This just makes me think those rumours about them wanting rid of Katie Cassidy have some truth. If they wanted a BC on the show, why not keep Laurel’s version? Curious!

    • JC1 says:

      Yeah I don’t get it either. I couldn’t stand Laurel, but I’m not really understanding why they killed her off if they’re just going to bring on a new one. On the bright side, this new version, if rumors are true, seems like she might be much truer to the comics version, despite the name, instead of the CW-fied Rachel Dawes that Laurel was. Personally I’d have preferred they give the BC name to Sara, but I suppose if they think they need a BC on Arrow, I’d prefer Sara staying on her own show and leading her own team like a badass instead of playing second fiddle to Oliver.

      • L says:

        I didn’t hate Laurel but I wasn’t a big fan either. Most of the time she was just there. I preferred Sara as BC anyway. I don’t know why she can’t be BC actually. The Canary was her mantle first and Sara is badass.

        • Ray says:

          I respect that opinion, you don’t like Laurel. My problem is with the Olicity shippers that call us cry babies for caring about the character, actress, and show. All I ask is that you put yourselves in our shoes for a minute. If they had killed Felicity you would be the same way. Have respect for all sides and opinions please.

          • Charley says:

            I completely agree Ray, we have forgotten how to simply ‘agree to disagree’ in this country. I am not a big KC or Lauriver fan at all, and I did not think that was the correct casting choice…but I can see how others think she is lovely, and she has built a fanbase…so good for her! I did love the chemistry between Amell and Rickards…it was like a surprise gift to the viewer…but the showrunners squandered that with extraordinarily poor storyline decisions. As much as I enjoyed them together onscreen, even I was just over the extreme ‘soap opera’ bs. I hope they can find their way back to that season 2/3a ‘awesomeness’…and that we can get our nice little extra ‘gift’ back one day!

  6. kate says:

    It still supports my theory that she is right this instant the Black Siren, and she is clearly here for destructive purposes, but she has a redemption arc where by the end of the season, if not the new page for the new season, she is able to, with everyone’s blessing, adopt the Black Canary moniker. My thought has been that Prometheus managed to spring her from Iron Heights, and she’s there, sure for destruction, but with observing Oliver and the new recruits and how they are more hardline than the Flash crew, and then maybe having some sympathy (because we don’t know the Black Siren’s back story) for Felicity and is able to guide her through her dark arc, she becomes the secret weapon against Prometheus. Sort of a triple agent at that point. And this will allow Katie Cassidy to play a more fun and less tragic version of Laurel, which might help turn Oliver into a more quippy version of himself in the field. They will be partners, but I doubt romance is in the cards because you still have the basic chemistry issue and that it hasn’t super diminished between him and Felicity.

  7. Sara says:

    So Tina really is BC 3.0 complete with a canary cry and best fighting skills that Oliver’s ever seen lol. They killed off Katie’s DLL just to replace the character with a better version that’ll most likely be more in line with the comic version :/

  8. kath says:

    There have been a number of times in the Green Arrow history, including the New 52 reboot when the Green Arrow and Black Canary didn’t even know each other but if DC feels that a Black Canary is necessary, good luck to her.

    • Igor says:

      New 52 is another example of how Green Arrow does not work quite well without the Black Canary. So much so that the writers corrected that in Rebirth.

      • Max says:

        How’s that 50k drop feel? Free Dinah from Ollie, for heaven’s sake…

        • Smurffette says:

          How’s that lowest rated D.C. Show on CW feel?

          • JC1 says:

            Still tied for third place on the network.

          • Max says:

            Um, this is awkward. Legends is a DC show. Izombie is a DC show too. Both have worse ratings than Arrow.

          • Yeah, even with the dropped ratings (which happened to ALL shows last fall), it was one of the highest rated shows. Next time, check your facts and have links to back it up.
            .
            Even The Flash took a large hit in the fall, but nobody is doom-and-gloom about them. Oh, but Flash is doing canon when it comes to the love interest, so it’s better…
            .
            ((FYI, I love WestAllen, but I can see the writing on the wall. When people say a show that has done JUST AS MUCH comic canon as Arrow is ‘more faithful to the source material’, we know what they really mean.)

    • aaron says:

      They don’t have to be together 24/7 which they havent for S1 or S5 but the two characters always end up interacting with one another and playing a huge role in each others lives.

  9. lilyb says:

    Cool, another mask in a sea of masks. Another new character in a sea of new characters. More time spent developing someone to take the place of a person they killed off for…whatever reason, I guess?

    And now they’re staying true to the origin of comics when before they were telling their own story. I’m guessing this new Tina person will be suited up and Black Canary-ed within a couple of eps of her arrival.

    Arrow is the only show where the EPs talking about it actually make me want to NOT watch it.

    • Max says:

      Here’s a simpler explanation of what’s happening. Big bosses don’t care about Laurel as a character under the mask or they would have undone her death by now but they do care about a black canary because comics. There’s been a change in the dctv seat before season 5 if that guides my reasoning… So, we’re stuck with canary 3.0. even if it makes no sense whatsoever.
      Sad thing is, the arrow fandom has two “factions” and none of them will welcome Tina.

  10. Lula says:

    Yesss, bring back Laurel aka Black Canary!

  11. A says:

    Arrow have messed up with black canary so far, who even trusts them to get it right this time. Leave it to the movies now. (I’d like to note that they did season one without a BC and comic ‘canon’ fans liked that)

    • Because they were looking forward to her putting on the suit, and they were still doing the romance at the time… even if it was very twisted-sister-triangle-toxic romance with poor Tommy strung along as if he had a chance, though he was still the better man for Laurel…

  12. Jess says:

    So Dinah, sorry Tina, will be BC 3.0. How many strikes before you’re out? They had two versions of the character. Couldn’t they have tried to make one of those work?

  13. Erica says:

    For years they didn’t want proud to be different from the comics, but now it’s “hard” to do the show without Black Canary? The amount of backtracking after the mistake of killing off Laurel Lance has been amazingly hilarious.

    • Erica says:

      ‘they were proud’

    • lilyb says:

      They aren’t really backtracking if they’re bringing in someone else to be the Black Canary, and it seems that they are.

    • Rana Kercmar says:

      A Black Canary has been a constant on this show since season 2.

      • Max says:

        She seems so important to them in theory but the truth is in the pudding, they’ve replaced her twice by now. Maybe not much of a constant, just a name among many in a comic book show where she never was the title character.

        • Rana Kercmar says:

          I actually expect her to have suit pretty quickly. I would say by the end of February sweeps. Because they just want the presence of a BC around the show. Its not like they took so much time with the LL/BC version.

          • Actually, I think they should have had her in the suit in the pilot. It certainly seemed like that’s where they were going, and if they really wanted her to be a mask, they should have done so early on. At least then, if they were really looking to kill her, it might have been more impactful, even for her fans.

  14. T.W.S.S. says:

    Considering they introduced the Canary mantle with Sara and had Evelyn in the BC costume minutes after Laurel died, I wouldn’t be surprised if they replaced THE Black Canary with A Jane Nobody Canary. I will be disgusted, though, as the show continues to dismiss Dinah Laurel Lance.

  15. kellyzollo says:

    They can just keep their cheap version of Walmart Canary 2.0 with either Tina or Fefe. Along with their Batman 2.0 wanna be show.

    It’s gross how much disrespect they have shown the character of Dinah Laurel Lance, who to many is the one and only Black Canary maybe you could get away with Dinah Drake Lance. With Black Siren running around why in the world would you even consider those two your best options?

    Let me not get into the long list of reasons this hack team gave last year for Laurel dying to then retcon every single one of them this season. Too many masks, new people on team. Black Canary’s arc has come to an end, nope we need her now. DA stories are too hard to write and tell, replace her with a man and have him be a crime fighter.

    MG and WM have been hacks for years and I for one can’t wait till they are roasted again for this.

    • JC1 says:

      With Black Siren running around why in the world would you even consider those two your best options?

      “Fefe” as you call her has never been an option, except in some paranoid fans’ minds. As for Black Siren, well apparently for whatever reason they do not want to bring KC back full time. Sara is leading a team on another show. Thus, new character/actress.

      • kellyzollo says:

        It’s still disrespectful to Laurel Lance/comic fans and a ton of others. The backlash they got when they put Evelyn in the suit before Laurel was cold in the ground will be nothing compared to this retarded move. They have Katie on a contract across three shows the Flash handed them a gold mine but you know it’s MG and Co.

        The Black Canary is not a mantle it never was nor has it ever been. They think otherwise they are in for a really rude awakening again.

        Plus yeah I’ll call her Fefe if I want I’ve never liked her character. I think she’s whiny, annoying, hypocritical, manipulative and was best served as tech support and should have remained that way. I don’t find her strong or empowering as a female role model or character and no it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they did put her in the suit.

        • JC1 says:

          *sigh* Believe whatever you want. But Felicity is not going to be the Black Canary. Why would they even bother bringing Tina on if they were going that direction?

          • JC1 says:

            And Marc just denied it again this morning on Twitter, when someone sent him art of Felicity as BC, saying “Nope. Sorry.”

        • Max says:

          It’s so funny to me how some Laurel fans never miss the opportunity to spew vitriol on Felicity for no reason whatsoever, even when the article is not about Felicity. Repeat after me, her fans don’t want her to be BC, the EPs don’t want her to be BC but you’re still allowing her mere existence to make you this angry. That’s how much power she has over you, what a character!

          • kellyzollo says:

            Stating that I hate her character is not vitrol grow up. It’s an opinion I don’t like her I never have my reasons are perfectly valid she is not a well written character (Arrow has a huge problem with that with all their female characters). She has no power over me the only reason I considered putting this show back on my Nielsen box was they would right the wrong of killing Dinah Laurel Lance the Black Canary. Like I said above they can keep it.

          • Max says:

            It’s just a pattern I’m seeing. Interesting that the only way to prop up Laurel – whose name is always followed by her mantle if not completely overshadowed by her mantle – is to bring down Felicity. Like there hasn’t been room for both of them for 4 years and weren’t actual friends on and off screen. But I guess it’s reflective of the toxicity of online fandoms these days, especially the comic book ones.

          • Yeah, Marc outright said he wasn’t putting Felicity in a suit so long as he was working on it, so this line still confuses me.
            .
            And if you want us to respect your opinion, Kelly, then use her real name. We’re not calling Laurel any mocking name, now are we? And if you say you don’t care for our respect, why are you still bent on making your point as if you did?

          • Hmm says:

            “Interesting that the only way to prop up Laurel – whose name is always followed by her mantle if not completely overshadowed by her mantle – is to bring down Felicity.”

            Friend, Felicity fans do exactly the same thing to Laurel. Let’s not pretend that doesn’t exist. Call this your typical fandom warfare. It’s been going on for ages with many young adult-y shows (ie. Vampire Diaries, Teen Wolf, Supernatural, basically anything that airs on CW ever). In fact, it’s often the same people traveling from fandom to fandom, participating in lame wars over who the best ship is, pitting [typical female] characters against one another, and beating down one woman to prop up another. And it happens on BOTH sides, BOTH teams.

          • What you say about fandoms is true. HOWEVER…
            .
            Laurel fans have a nasty habit of attacking Felicity before they will ever prop Laurel. Even in the hashtags today, I’ll still find more Felicity hate in the Laurel tag than Laurel hate in the Felicity tag.
            .
            My best evidence is The 2016 GreenArrowTV Awards for Season 4. There were plenty of votes for Felicity as Least Favorite character (she also won Most Favorite Character). But when it came to voting up their fave in the latter mentioned category, they failed utterly, only garnering 21% of the vote.
            .
            If anyone failed Laurel Lance all series long, it’s her fans who felt so threatened by Felicity that they hardly paid LL any attention at all. Until after it was revealed she died.

        • Maisy says:

          Yeah I hate disrespect towards female characters as much as I dispise hypocrisy, talking about respect to female characters- who exactly is Fefe?

          • kellyzollo says:

            Eh I’m a woman and a comic fan, so yeah.

            Arrow has done a crappy job of writing their female characters for years. If they ain’t in bed with Oliver expect them to get fridged or little to no character development. It’s not hard to write a female character well or believably Luke Cage and Daredevil have both done it with their female leads and characters.

            Fefe is the character formerly known as Felicity Smoak, who then turned into the creators pet and became a shell of her former self. I can totally get into all her Mary Sue trope qualities if you would like. Here is the deal there was no reason to get rid of Laurel the show had plenty room for both. Had the writers of fridged Felicty (which lord knows they would never due to her with her Mary Sue status) had her ship Oliver and Laurel on her death bed you would be furious. Just like the fans of Laurel’s character are.

            Please stop trying to cast some stone on me about feminism and trying to tote some flag about it especially if you were in that crowd that actively cheered on Laurel’s death last year because it suited in favor of your favorite on the show.

          • kath says:

            As you say, it’s possible to have Black Canary and Felicity exist on the same show. And yet, DC gave their permission to kill Laurel Lance, and this season they want the show to bring in a new Black Canary.
            The conclusion seems to be that it’s not the Black Canary they don’t want on the show, it’s Katie Cassidy playing Laurel Lance.

          • If you actually used Felicity’s real name, you wouldn’t get called out.
            .
            If you want people to respect your fave, respect theirs.
            .
            And don’t say you don’t care about their respect when you’ve spent so much time defending Laurel in this thread.

          • Max says:

            @ Kelly

            You seem deadset on using childish fandom terms so let me just say this one thing about Laurel’s death scene. She did not “ship” Olicity. They were her friends and she witnessed Oliver propose to Felicity while she had the biggest smile on her face because her friends were happy.
            If you were really about empowering women, you’d be more angry at the fact that Laurel still held a flame for Oliver, a man who lied and cheated on her over and over again while he clearly had moved on to someone else for the better part of 3/4 seasons. And she did too, especially when she told him she couldn’t remember a time she was in love with him. In fact, I think the writers are doing a good job alienating all fans and the only buzz they’re getting is when you go after each other. But, go on.

  16. Scribe says:

    You know, since this show began, I’ve heard endless carrying on about Laurel and the actress who plays her. In Season 1, she was the worst element of the show. In Season 2, they attempted to give her an arc which also culminated in the ludicrous evolution into the Black Canary. My Black Canary is a martial arts expert capable of giving Batman a run for his money, and she became BC after a few lessons! Of course, its understandable she couldn’t have the Canary cry, not in the beginning with the show’s no powers possibility but there was already too much dilution of the character and no matter what, KC couldn’t not pull off the smooth, skilled fighting that Cathy Loitz has. Sorry but is just the truth, if anything she looked clumsy.

    Killing her off was the best thing they could have done to Earth 1’s version of BC. If it allows them to bring Black Siren into the mix, complete with Canary cry without the baggage of the past five seasons, then GREAT. Because if they turn Black Siren into BC, then we’ll get a half decent version of the character.

    Now, the Olicity thing. I admit the Dinah/Ollie pairing in the comics is one of my favourites but from the very beginning the actors had no chemistry! If anything confirmed it, it was the dream sequence in the recent crossover. It felt forced. Whether Olicity haters want to admit it at not, Arnell and Rickard have tremendous chemistry and the producers would have been foolish NOT to exploit it. Where they failed their audience, was to focus too much on it, instead of keeping a peripheral element of the show.

    So please, take a deep breath and let the Olicity hate go. Season 5 has been a winner so far and I look forward to seeing a real Black Canary on the stage soon.

  17. aaron says:

    What! Then why kill off LL in the first place!

  18. Vn says:

    YOU HAD A BLACK CANARY AND YOU KILLED HER FOR NOTHING. This show can go rot, they really think they can take Laurel’s identity & pass it around to whoever they want. It’s a version of Laurel or it’s no one.

  19. ALM says:

    I think this is a way for the show runners to try to please all factions of the audience, which they created. By killing off the original Laurel Lance, with her early romantic ties to Oliver, they think they can squash that romance and get everyone to cheer for Oliver and Felicity. And now they can bring in Katie as the new Black Canary from another Earth and thus satisfy those who want the true comics story told. I am one who stopped watching when they killed Laurel due to the absolute stupidity of the way it happened and that entire story as a whole. I have watched small portions of two episodes since and I did watch the episode that was part of the crossover. I will probably watch to see how this new Black Canary is portrayed as I am one of the comics people and care little about Felicity and Diggle as part of the “original” team as to me that has been ruined much more than anything else on the show, revealing to me it probably should not have happened in the first place. Anyway, with all of this an old saying comes to mind: when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one, or something like that. A good, strong Black Canary is needed for diversity of powers if nothing else. But I am very skeptical if this group can do it correctly, even if the third time is usually the charm, so to speak.

  20. Josh says:

    It has to be some version of Laurel. BC can’t be Felicity or that other girl

    • *sigh*
      .
      MARC DOESN’T WANT FELICITY BEHIND A MASK!
      .
      They even make a point of her not putting on a mask for the new recruits.
      .
      Geez, Emily posts one little pic in her bathtub wearting a leotard and tights and you guys lose your minds…

  21. "A" says:

    Sounds like Laurel 2.0 will be returning home to Earth 2 to redeem herself by become The Black Canary on her world … and … she’ll form “Birds of Prey” there. Next season DCTV will have a new spin-off for us to enjoy !!!

  22. myrcellasear says:

    The blatant disrespect to Laurel and Katie… Sigh. I’m so glad I let this show go in my heart after S2, even if I am forced by circumstance to still watch it.

  23. samycheesim says:

    Don’t see a point of this article… what are you trying to say exactly?

  24. Amit. says:

    Hold up, writers.

    “Look, it’s hard to do a show about Green Arrow without having a Black Canary. I don’t know if it will happen this season or when, but… we are going to be true to origins in the DC universe, and she’s always going to be there.”

    I take a big issue with that quote. You wanna talk origins? Okay. Let’s talk origins.

    Green Arrow was created in 1941, his first appearance in More Fun Comics #73.

    Black Canary was created in 1947, her first appearance in Flash Comics #86.

    Arrow and Canary did not become a couple until 1969.

    You CAN do Green Arrow without Black Canary. You CAN do Black Canary without Green Arrow. They’re not built into each other’s origin stories. They aren’t Lois and Clark or Bruce and Selina or Iris and Barry.

    Let’s not forget that the best Dinah we’ve ever had was from 1995-2007, a point where Dinah didn’t have Ollie in her life.

  25. Maria says:

    Certain people only started liking Laurel because she became a mask. She wasn’t a good character and that is one of the reasons she’s not actually a regular anymore. Was being paid too much for sub-par work.

  26. Ella says:

    Katie Cassidy is the ONLY Black Canary. I would watch a Black Siren becomes Black Canary redemption arc if it meant KC back on my screen but they really shouldn’t have messed this all up, starting with the way they wrote her from the beginning. That being said, KC is GREAT at playing a sassy character with bite who is intrinsically good so I think she’d have a lot of fun with the role.

  27. Oncer says:

    Last year the Black Canary was expendable, even got frigded after having basicly zero storyline that year, gets killed of because aparently there were no more story to tell for her, wich is bull, there was so much they could have done for her, they disrepsected her so badly, didn’t make the time to really develop her, rushed her into becoming the Black Canary, never bothered giving her the Canary Cry, or a suit that she looked good in.
    But now the, scratch that A Black Canary is important, as if it’s some mantle to be passed along, a Black Canary that had the sonic scream that they were too lazy to give Laurel.
    Not to mention they didn’t even know that she was going to be the one in the grave until a few episodes prior, used her death to prop up a ship.
    They kill her of becaus in their words there is no more story to tell for her, yet this season thye brought in a new character who, a male character who is the D.A and most likely a vigilanti by night, and now there are rumors about a random female coming in to become the Black Canary.

  28. parstl says:

    Didn’t an almost identical story with the same quotes run on here about two weeks ago when the Arrow promo debuted?

  29. Richard says:

    This isn’t the BC. I think it’s going to be the black siren. Notice she did the canary call without the tech obvious its a metahuman.

  30. I still think that this Laurel Lance is from Earth 2, the black siren

  31. Dwayne Matthews says:

    It is better to have Malcolm Merlyn and the league of assassin restored

  32. look. get me a black canary with fishnet stocking and I’m sold.

  33. Brigid says:

    YES!!!!!! Absolutely true that you can’t have a Green Arrow without a Black Canary. This is freaking awesome!!!!!

  34. Andy says:

    What if Earth-2 Laurel is going to be the next Black Canary? Maybe living on Earth-1 makes her question her villainous ways and realizes it could be a fresh start. That way we have Black Canary back without actually reviving her, as much as I wanted Earth-1 Laurel back, so death isn’t pointless anymore

  35. LBoo says:

    People need to get over this the show must stick with the comic books. I enjoy the show for what it is, a show. Why do comic book people lose it when it isn’t wird for word as the comic books. Stop watching the show if you don’t like it.