Arrow Season 5 Oliver Felicity Talk

Arrow Recap: Take Me to Church — Plus, Oliver and Felicity Have That Talk

Well, this was a much better hour of Arrow than last week, eh?

With Rene captured and being tortured by a sadistic Tobias Church, Oliver & Co. went about trying to determine their colleague’s whereabouts. When Evelyn and Rory find blood at the location where Rene had been beaten, Felicity tracks a van that pulled away from that building — and feeds the location to Oliver.  Green Arrow arrives on the scene in time to save Rene, but Church gets away. (No arrow to the van tires? At least try!)  What’s more, the baddie escaped in possession of critical intel, courtesy of Rene — Arrow’s true identity!

While Diggle takes Rene under his wing and tries to help the new team member remember something else about his time with Church, Oliver enlists a friend of Dig’s — elite bodyguard Christopher Chance aka “Human Target” — to play “mayor.” In that capacity, Chance leverages a weasely councilman into caving on a rezoning ordinance, ar505a_0056bas well as takes many bullets from Church’s own costumed “freak,” Scimitar.

After we the viewers are looped in on the switcheroo/chicanery, Chance throws Oliver a bonus — the tidbit that Felicity is seeing new ACU recruit Billy Malone, as revealed to him during his day as mayor. That tees up a heart-to-heart on the loft balcony, where Oliver expresses not so much his disappointment in the news, but how he heard it.

“I’m fine, but hurt you didn’t tell me,” he shares. Felicity says she kept meaning to, yet repeatedly “chickened out.” Was she also in a way “keeping the door open for us?” he asks. “No, of course not…,” she half-heartedly answers. As for whether what she has cooking with Billy (impetuous nooners included!) is “real,” Felicity admits she doesn’t know.

When Rene, thanks to Diggle’s tactics, remembers a few cryptic remarks made by Church, the team deduces that something big is going down at an airstrip, at 4 am — so they (Spartan and Wild Dog included) meet up and clash with Church’s goons. (Christopher Chance even pitches in, masquerading as one of Church’s men.) It eventually comes down to Green Arrow versus Church, with the archer emerging victorious — but not before the gangster warns that something “much worse is coming,” a fella named Prometheus, “and he’s going to end you.” Church, though, is the one who is immediately ended, when the dark archer attacks his prison transport.

After apologizing to the city for faking his death, Oliver again confabs with Felicity, maintaining he wants her to be happy. As such, she owes it to herself to see if what she has with Billy is real — just as he will try to embrace whatever is next for him outside of the hood. “I will always care about you,” he reiterates. “It’s a mortal lock.”

Meanwhile in flashbacks, Oliver is welcomed into the Bratva brotherhood — though not so much by this one dude, Viktor, who has a few of his guys deliver a beatdown to their new member. Oliver is saved by some rando Russian — revealed only to us as Christopher Chance in disguise. Back in the present, at episode’s end, newshound Susan Williams gets a tip in the form of a photograph of “dead” Oliver Queen from five years  ago — living it up in a Russian watering hole, and certainly not sadly stranded on any island.

What did you think of “Human Target”?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Mike says:

    This was one of the best episodes of Arrow ever! The action was great along with the storyline and plot progression. The new recruits were utilized in a good way. Prometheus is already one of the best villains of the series, and I’m hoping he is Tommy due to Flashpoint. Tobias Church was also a great villain for the first few episodes. I like it better when shows use the same villain over multiple episodes as opposed to a “Villain of the Week.” That’s what Flash is suffering from currently. Also, does anyone know who churches masked bodyguard was? Is he an established DC villain? He was really cool, in my opinion!

    • jj says:

      I doubt he will be Tommy simply because Colin Donnell is too busy with Chicago Med. Technically, Flash has Alchemy as its recurring villain this season.

    • Partisan says:

      I think Church’s masked assassin is supposed to be Scimitar. I’m unfamiliar with the DC character but I remember hearing that they were going to use him(her?) later in the season. I’m also wondering if Prometheus could turn out to be Talia al Ghul since they announced she’ll be showing up soon.

    • AMB says:

      It’s not Tommy. He’s a main character on Chicago Med, his contract with which almost certainly wouldn’t allow him to appear on rival networks during regular Med filming.

  2. Riana says:

    i think Billy is Prometheus

  3. Trisha says:

    What a mess of an episode. The best villain they’ve had in years is already gone? Felicity is hooking up with her boyfriend in the loft she shared with Oliver? Church hires a hooded hitman who never even gets unmasked? Oliver and the reporter get a catchy little score during their flirtfest? Dig became a fugitive only to play second fiddle to the newbies? Sigh.

    The first few episodes of the season gave me hope that it was bouncing back after last year, but this was an awful episode. The only thing that didn’t suck was the Human Target, and he is just a one-off. Oh, and if that wasn’t enough, the showrunner just slammed shippers on Twitter. Way to kick a whole chunk of your fanbase when it’s already down…

  4. Jennifer says:

    My heart broke when Olicity was have the talk about her moving on and you can see that when Oliver ask her if what she has with the new boyfriend was real she half-heartedly answers but you can clearly see that they still love each other.But Olicity needs to see that they are made for each other that she is not going to find the same stuff that she has in Oliver in other people. And still think Felicity boyfriend is the big bad.

    • Patrick says:

      They may not be “made” for each other. Ollie, and Felicity, love each other. But I think they love the “romanticized” or “idealized” version of the other (or themselves). Felicity wants Ollie to be this big, handsome, rugged, bad boy, who turns into a nice guy as soon as the hood comes off. Last night was the first time they addressed the fact that Oliver is the Green Arrow. That is his actual personality. Oliver Queen is the fake personality. Felicity wants Ollie to be nice and inherently good, and he’s just not that guy anymore.
      Conversely, Ollie likes the way Felicity sees him. He likes who he is when he’s around her. I think he’d like to be the guy she wants him to be, but he just can’t do that AND be the Green Arrow. They love each other. But neither one is honest with themselves about who they are and what they really want.

    • It’s a process. Process does not mean ‘back together in 505.’ Clearly, they still love each other, and the story that brings them back together will be great. Just keep watching.

    • edyn says:

      I felt the same way. They have the same thoughts and finish the other’s sentences. When Oliver said he felt hurt that she did not say anything about her new boyfriend, Felicity felt the same way when Oliver did not tell her about his son, even though it was a good reason. I felt they should have gotten back together at that moment because he was in her shoes. Oliver having a son and not telling her is what made her break it off. It would not surprise me if her bf was Prometheus because Thea had Roy who turned out to be a big asset and then had a man was working for Ruve. Felicity had Ray, then this guy who works for Oliver. There is a pattern and it is time for Felicity to have a bad boyfriend, but with Flashpoint, things have really turned. Diggle has a son, not a daughter. I hope it is a new player and a result of Flashpoint because Felicity is the only one on Arrow who knows what Barry did. He tampered with time so much that anything is possible. Iris and Joe were on bad terms in the timeline Barry created. Wally had speed. Anything can happen now with relationships or in physical form.

  5. Brad says:

    Promethus is someone’s related to a person on the list from season 1 awesome episode

  6. kath says:

    I came back but now I regret it.
    So sick of being jerked around.
    I don’t care about these new characters, of which Church was the best. That’s not why I tune I to Arrow.

    I only watch shows where I’m treated with respect.
    At least there is Lethal Weapon.

    • Malachi says:

      Respect? Lol right like anyone is gonna respect you with those grammar skills.

    • jj says:

      treated with respect? You know tv shows are simply entertainment, you’re not in a relationship with them.

      • kath says:

        Actually, I do think that viewers have a relationship with the people who create the show. It’s also true in other art forms like music but more so in theatre, movies and TV.
        We the audience agree to set aside our scepticism and suspend our disbelief and watch their show so that they can earn their living, and in return they respect our intelligence and give us a decent hour of entertainment.
        The best shows don’t try to put something over on or manipulate their audience. When the producers, crew etc put their best effort into it, everyone wins.

        • jj says:

          “watch their show so that they can earn their living”. Are you for real? You’re acting like moviegoers and tv watchers are selflessly giving up their time simply so that the people involved can make some money. Additionally, how high and mighty of you to decide that the crew hasn’t put in their best effort. The people who create a tv show are telling a story the way they want to. You get to choose if you want to follow that story or not. That’s it. They are under no obligation to tell the story the way you want it told (and it would be impossible to tell it in a way to please every single viewer). It’s their story. It’s shocking the entitlement that some people seem to have towards tv shows.

          • kath says:

            If people don’t watch, they don’t get to make their show. That’s a basic rule of business.
            I don’t care enough about the new characters to watch for them, especially Wild Dog who seems to be the writers’ new pet toy but is unlikable and a bully. I liked Church and he’s dead. The Oliver/Felicity interactions are so pathetically predictable and bad that I wish a middle schooler had written them instead. Is there anyone who didn’t predict that Oliver wouldn’t get jealous but would move on with his life?
            I’m not the only one who feels that this season is sub-par. The show is hitting all time lows in ratings and viewers.
            I don’t want to see the show cancelled but unless the writing gets more intelligent, I’ll be long gone anyway.

          • Ben says:

            A lot of people have that entitlement. I don’t think any of them are writers. When you actually write, you aren’t setting out to create a relationship between you and those who consume your work. You are creating a relationship between yourself and the characters and story you create. You just hope that enough people like your work that you get to keep doing it, but ultimately the creative choices you make are not made with how people will react in mind (and if they were, the result would probably be terrible).

          • KCC says:

            @kath says: “If people don’t watch, they don’t get to make their show.” I think you got that backwards: If they don’t make their show, there’s nothing for people to watch. You can’t watch a show that doesn’t exist. A lot of money, time and effort goes into creating a show before anyone sees it. After all that work and effort, it gets aired and you get to watch it and decide if you like or not. Spending an hour a week watching a show does not entitle you to dictate how a show should develop. Even if it did, how would they decide which fans to listen to? A show like The Arrow has people that like the action and people that like the relationships and people that expect it to be like the comics. Which of those diverse groups should they cater to? It’s a delicate balancing act and it’s the producers that have to manage it.
            In the end, the entities that actually pay for the shows are the production companies, that’s where the salaries come from for the actors, writers, etc. Of course the production companies get their money from the networks and the networks get their money from the advertisers. The advertisers are in their individual businesses and just want to see a return for their advertising dollars on a particular show, to them the quality does not really matter that much (hence the perpetuation of reality TV). So if you really want to say you support a show you have to buy the products advertised, not just sit there and watch TV.

          • kath says:

            That may be true of writers (Emily Dickinson didn’t publish anything in her lifetime) or painters who don’t care if their paintings are sold but I don’t think it’s true of theatre or TV Ask any actor who prefers theatre to films and they will tell you it’s because having the audience there changes it every night. And if the experience is not good, people walk out.
            As someone who writes academic papers, I am very conscious of what the reader is getting out of it and whether expressing it in another way would be better.

            There are right now less than 25 comments about the Arrow episode. Two years ago there would have been almost a hundred by the next morning.

          • @kath – you *do* realize the bulk of those posts had to do with the ongoing Lauriver/Olicity shipping war.. right?
            Or do you only remember things when they’re convenient?

          • kath says:

            Since Laurel is dead, the war is Olicity vs Oliver-and-anyone-but-Felicity.
            I’m still trying to figure out what ‘entitled’ means in this context. I think everyone deserves to get good writing on their TV shows.

            No, this episode didn’t do it for me because while I am 98% convinced that Oliver and Felicity are endgame (EBR may decide to leave the show or something else could happen), I don’t like how I am being jerked around by the way the story is being written. I don’t think there was any real reason to break them up last season (Oliver choosing to lie to his fiance rather than the ex ONS who was blackmailing him was ridiculous, as was Thea “everyone lies to me so I won’t sign this paper to keep our fortune and I will run away with my evil killer father” telling Oliver that lying to Felicity was the right thing to do). Now the writers are over-doing the heart eyes so shippers will know they will get together in the end but meanwhile we’re going to see Felicity giving Det. Mayo nooners because she “owes” him and Oliver off to sleep with the reporter and/or the new female character or any other woman he sees. It’s all so pointless and so manipulative of the audience. That’s why I feel it’s disrespectful.

            Marc Guggenheim and Brian Ford Sullivan have both referred to Babylon 5 as a series that influenced them. The title of the next Arrow episode is taken from B5. But in that show, once the the main ship characters got together, they stayed together. There was no nonsense to break them up for artificial drama, the drama was from real Big Bads that were genuinely scary and the couple stayed together and fought with each other to defeat the enemy.
            That’s what I think Arrow should be doing, putting Oliver and Felicity back as soon as they can, stop this ridiculous soap opera drama, and go back to the suspense of beating the bad guys.

          • ‘Entitled’ basically means that you think the show owes you something. And if ‘good writing’ = ‘Olicity back together’, it reads as entitlement. If you feel the show owes it to you to get them back together faster than the current story is allowing, you are going to sound entitled.
            And I’m not convinced that 1) the rebound is sticking around much longer or 2) that Oliver is actually going to sleep with the reporter before season’s end. Maybe they get close and he finds out what she has on him and that turns things for them.
            But I believe in patience. What, you were willing to wait for the long game of them being together before they dated, but now all bets are off? The Babymomma Drama was dumb, but I’m wiling to wait if it means they’ll be stronger than ever by the end of it. That way, they can better handle what comes later.

          • kath says:

            Under the OE definition, “entitled” as an adjective means “Believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment”.
            I don’t think asking for good writing = special treatment.

            All the female characters have been badly done by this season. Nine new characters were added this season in the present of which only two were women (all of the characters in the past are male). Evelyn got the least development of any new team member (if you didn’t watch s4 you knew nothing about why she’s a vigilante) and Susan Williams is a skeevy reporter who is using sexual attraction to get the dirt on Oliver. (Way to make the fourth estate look good there!).
            The only thing Flashpoint changed was take eliminate Baby Sara and replace her with a boy.
            Thea went from her own storylines as Speedy and blood lust to literally doing nothing but helping two men, Oliver and Lance, do their jobs because they can’t do them on their own.
            Felicity went from being an expert hacker and CEO who wanted to make the world a better place by making the chip available to all to unemployed and being important as a girlfriend who brings Malone in. She even needs the help of engineer Curtis to write an algorithm this year. No wonder Wild Dog has no respect for her and keeps calling her Blondie in spite of her repeatedly asking him to stop.
            My preference would be better writing for all the female characters. Taking Olicity back to where it was in the first part of season 4 might help make the show more palatable but Oliver and Felicity act as if they were never dating, never in love and engaged. It makes no sense.
            Yes, I did wait through the bad plotting of season 3 and it was bad enough. I have no wish to go through it again. There was no reason to break them up other than a lack of creativity and dearth of storylines.

          • I don’t even know where to begin. Most of this is your interpretation and not anything that they intended to put across.
            If you can’t see what the show actually put onscreen, I can’t help you. They actually referred to their engagement, in a subtle way, in the premiere. Oh, but if they aren’t hitting us over the head with it, it doesn’t count…

          • kath says:

            I’m talking about how female characters generally are written this season on Arrow. If Felicity or Thea were the strong, self-actualized women of previous seasons with real stories of their own instead of props to the stories of their menfolk, I wouldn’t be complaining.

          • They’re both contributing, and I think Thea gets as much out of her relationship with Lance as he does. Felicity is also learning, and sometimes that means learning while living. Which is something we do every day in real life. Besides which, Felicity’s supposed to get her own storyline (which is going to connect back to Oliver in some way, because it’s his show) in 5B, so I hope that’s something to look forward to for you.
            If not… well, obviously, I can’t help you. If someone doesn’t actually want to listen, you can’t make them.

    • AMB says:

      Lethal Weapon great fun.

    • Ah, another entitled fan. I’m sorry, the episode with the most hope for Olicity and with OTA back in the city didn’t do it for you?
      Guess you aren’t paying attention. Those of us who are real fans are watching and paying attention, AND have been richly rewarded for doing so.

  7. That is obviously Michael Dorn doing the voice of Prometheus right?

  8. 134sc says:

    Im so happy that reporter has dirt on Olivers past, its about time something like this has happened. Lends futher credence to my theory that Oliver outs himself as the Green Arrow sometime in the back half of the season.

    Dont like how they handled that last scene with Prometheus and Church. It may be explained later, but, Prometheus should already know GA is Oliver Queen, cuz his issue is with the Hood, not GA. If he doesnt already have this knowledge, he should be going after Roy Harper, who according to show canon is the Hood.

    • bob says:

      alot people believe he already knew before but i believe hes after him cause he killed someone close to him that was on the list

  9. stacy030 says:

    Haven’t watched yet, but I’m insanely disappointed they got rid of Church. Why even waist time hiring such a good actor? And good job going with the “black guy dies first” trope. That’s never ever gets old! Now to have white dude be the villains. Just like Arrow season 1 and 2 and 3 and 4. And Flash season 1 and 2. And Supergirl season 1.

    • Ben says:

      Just to let you know – Manu Bennett is not white (although Maori people often seem to get called white by Americans). Also, we don’t even know if Prometheus is white yet.

    • jj says:

      the black guy killed a lot of white guys in the previous episodes eliminating competition etc. He didn’t die first. And are you honestly questioning the diversity of the Arrowverse shows? All the shows have diversity in the series regular cast as well as in the recurring and guest cast.

  10. I stated watching Arrow last year after I retired and was able to watch night-time TV. I am now watching the early seasons on TNT. I love the show, but I have a complaint. Why do they have to kill off so many guards and police officers in every show. There were at least 11 people killed in one episode alone. I really think the plot could really be completed without so many innocent murders. I know that the villains are pure evil, but it gets upsetting after a while.

  11. Aletha Guyer says:

    They need to bring Oliver and Felicity back together, where they make her decide between going with new boyfriend or helping the team.

  12. brenna says:

    I do think this episode was better than last week. I’m enjoying this season for the most part. I thought the scene in the loft with Felicity and Billy was completely unnecessary to the episode and just served to rub salt in the wounds of Olicity fans. I appreciate much of what the writers do, but I really question some decisions/storylines. The scenes with Oliver and Felicity really showed their chemistry and the reason they became so popular to begin with.

    • I think the loft scene was meant to show how little Billy actually means in the grand scheme of things.
      Meanwhile, the bulk of Felicity’s romantic screen time is spent with Oliver, and that’s very telling because you’re right; the chemistry is still there. The love is still there.
      Billy is a rebound. That’s it.

  13. AMB says:

    Ha! I can’t wait for all the awkward gifs of Stephen Amell trying to prove he can have sexual chemistry with any actress other than EBR by banging the reporter and Tina and maybe Talia in flashbacks. Love the stupidity! mean, I’m not watching it, obviously, but I am LOLing about it.

  14. Liz says:

    I like Prometheus. They managed to surprise me by having him kill Church. I thought the scene of Felicity and Billy in the loft was unnecessary and awful considering he’s absolutely pointless. I won’t ever root for them, especially after the half-assed way he was introduced. The Olicity stuff wasn’t fun for me to watch as an Olicity fan and I just don’t get it. They act like they weren’t in a very committed almost married type of relationship and almost made a mockery of it. But they’re saying one thing like they’re moving on and yet Stephen and Emily continue to have such amazing chemistry and heart eyes so I don’t know what the hell they’re playing at but I’m tired of it all now.

    I still don’t like the newbies apart from Ragman and I’m still waiting for Felicity to get an actual storyline instead of comic relief moments and having a boyfriend so Oliver can get the green-light to move on. She deserves better than that.

    • AMB says:

      The heart-eyes is pretty classic ship-baiting. Olicity is over, at least for quite awhile. He’s going to bang the reporter and probably Tina, who will become BC 3.5. IMO that is a DC mandate.

    • They’re laying foundation for them to get back together. Why get us invested in Billy if he’s not going to last?
      They need to get them back together in a natural way, so that the story is fun to watch. Unlike 4B.

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