Will Flash Restore Original Timeline? When Does the Big Bad 'God' Arrive?

Viewers of The Flash would be well advised to get comfortable in the current, re-revamped timeline, because it doesn’t sound like the original one will be restored any time soon.

“I’m not sure that we can [go back], given what we’ve established,” Arrowverse overlord Greg Berlanti said on Saturday at the EW PopFest. “If we’re not challenging ourselves and creating new territory and new obstacles for the characters, it’s less rewarding to watch and probably less rewarding [for the actors] to play.”

In this new timeline — which was born of Barry’s attempt to undo his “fixing” of the version in which his mother died, and features such wrinkles as a Joe/Iris rift, a mourning-his-brother Cisco and a Caitlin at odds with a frosty fate — The Flash has been battling the “sleeper” metahumans who are being awoken to their alt-destiny by the shrouded “Doctor” Alchemy. But as well previewed during the off-season, a second Big Bad — the speedster named Savitar — is on his way, to make his debut “very, very soon,” warned series lead Grant Gustin.

“He’s the god of motion,” Berlanti explained, “so Flash is up against his biggest foe yet.”

Want more scoop on The Flash, or for any other show? Email insideline@tvline.com and your question may be answered via Matt’s Inside Line.

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Mary says:

    Think that if Barry tried to fix the timeline again he’d end up making new problems. It’d probably end up being a never ending cycle of problems.

    • Wendy says:

      He would. That’s why Jay Garrick yanked him aside when he tried to “fix” it. Every time Barry tried to reset the timeline, there is an unintended consequence. Things should be left as is. I think things are more interesting in this timeline anyway. Caitlin is finally getting a storyline that has nothing to do with the men in her life. I also think that Wally will be getting his powers soon. Julian has been an interesting addition and I feel there may be more to him. Barry and Iris are finally together and Joe is getting a love interest of his own. I want to see these things play out.

      • Calin Raul says:

        If Flash saves his father; it will all be alright.

        • W0NK042 says:

          No. It wouldn’t, as every action taken after the death of his Father will have never happened (Let alone giving Zoom 2 possible Barry’s to drain the Speed Force from).

          • Reverse-Flash says:

            Because of Zoom killing his father; it was what determined Barry Allen to go and cause the Flashpoint in the first place.
            It is not much of a big deal.
            The same thing could still happen with the Time Wraiths taking Zoom into the Speed Force or taking Zoom to the Iron Heights.
            Think before writing me.
            I actually had a very long debate with various people; and they all had agreed with me.

          • Calin Raul says:

            What the heck? Flash gave his speed to Zoom when his father was still alive.

  2. Alec says:

    Oh my god, I think I figured it out: the new LGBT character is… Cisco! Sure, he wasn’t gay on last season’s timeline, but in this one… Anyone noticed anything different? He’s really different, talking less and kind of depressed… Like he’s hiding something. I don’t know, but he’s sending a gay vibe this season. And after this interview… It kinda makes sense. Right?

    • Emily says:

      he’s depressed bc his brother is dead. have you been watching? And i thought the new LGBT character is on Supergirl. Was their news on one on the Flash as well?

      • Joe says:

        Technically it was said one of the Arrowverse shows primary cast members would be making discoveries about their sexuality. So anything from Arrow to Flash to LoT to Supergirl could potentially be the LGBT character.

        But its fairly likely its Kara’s sister from Supergirl. And yes Cisco is sad that his brother died and Barry wouldn’t go back to save him.

        • Data1001 says:

          Yeah, there were definitely some vibes between Alex and the female cop.

        • Butch says:

          My question from the beginning of this season is will Barry tell Cisco that before he saved his mother, Cisco’s brother did not die and Caitlin did not have the gene that would make her Killer Frost. again its not that Barry refused to save Cisco’s brother, it that Barry’s actions are responsible for the brother dying in the first place and not doing anyrhing to correct his mistake.

          • Kevin says:

            No I highly doubt Barry will bring back the past timeline because the first 2 episodes kind of just wrapped it up with everyone accepting that they do not wish to know what their lives were like in the other timeline. Bringing up that whole issue with Barry feeling guilty for what he has caused and all that would be a step back because this current timeline is the one that is here to stay so the show will focus more on the current rather than the past, or the alternate timeline.

        • I’m already shipping #Saragirl!

      • Bob Wood says:

        I really hope not, I respect the LGB lifestyle but I don’t agree with it and I am getting tired of Hollywood(shows) shoving this lifestyle in everyone’s face like we are being forced to have to accept it when there are people like myself who never will. This is like forcing a certain religion on someone and they have to accept it. Fortunately I download all my shows and I just fast forward those scenes.

    • Lea says:

      Your train of thought makes absolutely no sense.

    • ndixit says:

      Kind of an over exaggeration. He was depressed because of his brother in 3×02 but he was back to normal in the last two eps.

    • ToyCannon says:

      I believe it is the “new” Welles that will turn out to be gay. They pretty much foreshadowed that during his introduction last week.

  3. Emily says:

    i’m sure its not even possible to restore the original timeline. that’s the timeline barry wanted back, but he was not able to get it back. i think trying again would make things worst.

    • dan says:

      This is the original timeline. Remember on Legends of Tomorrow when they went to the future and found 1 arm Oliver and John Junior became his new partner? Barry just hadn’t reset it yet.

  4. Shannan says:

    In the conversation he had with Jay Garrick, in the second episode this season, Jay showed him an analogy of a broken cup, you can put the cup back together but it will never be the same as it was before it was broken. No matter how many times he goes back, he will never get back to the “original” timeline.

    • Data1001 says:

      If only we could go back to just before the Flash writers & showrunners decided to do this Flashpoint thing, and tell them what a mistake they’re about to make…

        • Patrick says:

          I assumed an eventual reset, or I’d have pitched a fit about this. This could very well be one of those plot points where, in retrospect, it turns out that this killed the series. Dead. The CW is a wasteland, ratings wise (not creatively) outside of the DC-verse set shows. So Flash can limp into finishing a fourth, and maybe even a fifth, year. But the show will never be the same.
          I liken this to Grimm where they took Nick’s powers for a while. That turned into the driver that killed the series. It lasted a few more years, but that was the beginning of the end.
          Flashpoint may be the same. What do the writers not understand. We liked Flash because it was fun, not dark. So, after season 1, they promptly made it dark and less fun.
          Hand to god, I think the PTB at Warner Bros and DC ruined all the Arroverse shows so that their abortions of a movie series don’t suffer in comparison.

          • KCC says:

            Hindsight is always 20/20. Any series can be “killed” by any change (or lack of change) to the original premise. The season started darker but it’s moving back to its original tone, at least to me. Joe and Iris have resolved their problems, Cisco is lightening up, a goofier Wells (at least for now) was introduced plus the Barry/Iris relationship is moving along and not as frustrating as the other timeline. I think that’s the point of Flashpoint (no pun intended). The different timelines are not inherently good or bad, just different. If Barry didn’t try to undo the timeline he created by saving his mother and he accepted losing his speed and forgetting the original timeline he knew, his life would have been fine with both his parents alive and the start of a relationship with Iris. He wouldn’t miss being the Flash because it never happened to him that current reality. The problem isn’t with any particular timeline, it’s in someone being aware of the different timelines and comparing them. The current timeline is just life, good and bad things will always be happening. How the writers tell stories going forward will be what determines the failure or success of the show.

  5. keenen says:

    Yeah, the timeline from season 1 when Joe was encouraging Barry to go after Iris and now he is “uncomfortable” with the two of them? I honestly can’t remember if Iris and Eddie were affectionate in front of him. I never liked Cisco, but if this “depression” will make him talk less I am all for it.

    Tired of the speedster “big bads.” I have been enjoying the bad guy of the week and the feeling of getting back to the vibe of season 1

    • Wendy says:

      I don’t think he is uncomfortable with the relationship itself. He just doesn’t want to see them making out on his couch. Which is totally understandable. That’s an awkward thing to walk in on, nevermind the fact that, grown or not, Iris is still his daughter. I agree about the speedster storylines. If we’re going to continue with a big bad for every season, it would be nice to see one with different abilities than Barry for once.

  6. Ann says:

    What I don’t like about this timeline is that Diggle no longer has a daughter anymore and now Arrow reflects that…as if Baby Sarah never existed. Now, I watch both shows so it makes sense to me, but I can see that a person who watches Arrow and not Flash, or if they are watching it on Netflix independent of Flash, it could be extremely confusing to those viewers. I hope they explain it at some point on Arrow…because on that show, Diggle only refers to his son John, Jr.

    • lrdslvrhnd says:

      They did have it as a ‘previously on…’, I believe.

      • M says:

        ‘previously on [insert another show]’ isn’t really acceptable but that’s what we’re left with. For no reason other than replacing a female baby – potentially unmasked – with a name from the comics we’ll never see grow up to become said mask considering arrow has two more seasons left at best… Kind of unfair. Kind of resenting Barry/the writers.

    • Ben says:

      Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Deleting baby Sarah is, for me, the reason that they have to fix this. If they don’t, I will definitely see it as the biggest mistake the Arrowverse has made. I’m kind of hoping this is blowing smoke and it will be restored in the crossover.

    • Hb says:

      Honestly, deleting Baby Sarah caused me to stop watching all of Arrowverse. Sure, a lot of people will think that’s ridiculous, but it struck a chord in me and I can’t watch any of them now.

      It’s probably due to knowing IRL how girls and women are tossed away as if they’re nothing. And I keep thinking about how 1 million girls are “missing” (google it). Yes, I’m over-intellectualizing, but this is what happened for me.

      There was simply no reason to change a female character to a male character.

      Plus, Cisco’s brother was eye candy and now he’s gone 😞

      • FeedTheCath says:

        Yeah, I just cringe every time someone says ‘John Jr.’ instead of ‘Sara’….. I just don’t understand why it was necessary and yeah, I think they should fix that and give us Sara back. How confusing must this whole flashpoint storyline be to occasional Arrow viewers? Or even those who don’t watch the Flash? Eventhough I think Barry probably is and will get used to this new universe, I don’t think he should.

        • Marco says:

          I think they probably did it to maintain Arrow and Flash connected and in a way that it wouldn’t have major impact on the show. And also because she was named to honor Sara Lance when she died and given that she is very much alive in Legends, it really doesn’t have that sentiment anymore.

          • Kate says:

            I was thinking Sara Lance being alive and well now was the real reason they changed the baby to a boy as well.

    • Bob Wood says:

      They did explain it.

  7. Liz says:

    I’d like to know if Barry will ever suffer the consequences of his actions because so far flashpoint affected everyone else but him…and he still got the girl. Iris deserves better.

    • ndixit says:

      He got back his parents and was forced to have them be killed again. Exactly what else do you want him to go through. I’d rather not go through half a season of mopy Barry. Iris is not a saint where she deserves something or not. Cisco and Caitlin have some reason to be mad at Barry but Iris is virtually the same. It didn’t even take her long to patch things with Joe.

      • mayen says:

        He had the same choice in the first season and he chose not to be selfish. He made a different decision last season and everything that happened to people in his life is on him. You’d rather see him not mope but if he doesn’t feel lasting guilt over Caitlin’s meta powers or Cisco’s brother or even Diggle’s baby girl, then you better not call him a hero and start using the V word. This show doesn’t let him be held accountable for his actions. It was clear in the premiere.

        • ndixit says:

          Of course the show held him accountable. Did you not see ep 2 this season. But it was also a mistake that had unintended consequences. He didn’t cause these differences out of intention of malice. They were accidental. Holding him accountable means what in this context? You are acting as if Barry felt no sense of guilt and remorse over Dante’s death and Iris and Joe’s fight. The show is obviously not going to spend ep after ep showing Barry continue to feel guilty, but in ‘Paradox’ he expressed his guilt but also said that he can’t do anything about and everyone else can either hate him for it or move forward like he’s trying to do. There is nothing to suggest that he won’t feel guilt over what happens with Caitlin but currently he doesn’t know so how can we judge him for that? And there is nothing to be gained by telling Diggle about baby Sarah so I don’t get what you expect for Barry to do about that. The show is not going to show Barry angsting about all these things where there is nothing to be gained from it.

          • mayen says:

            The show made Iris & Jo forgive Barry after one episode for the rift he caused between them. Of course, their relationship also got repaired after one episode. The show made Cisco tell Barry that they sure would become buddies again. That episode ended as a best case scenario for Barry but Dante’s still dead, Diggle still got baby hijacked. I can guess how the show will handle Caitlin’s attitude towards Barry and of course the fans will forgive & forget because he gave them KillerFrost. I never said his actions were malicious. He acted out of selfishness. And never have the show held him accountable for that. Instead what they did was make Felicity call him pudding because “everyone loves pudding” therefore, everything he does is forgivable because it’s Barry. There is too much character glorification when it comes to Barry.

    • Reniggade says:

      There are still some things that will catch up with Barry. Remember he didn’t remember talking to Cisco about going back and saving his brother. What if there is another Barry that remeber all that has happened while Barry was off in the different time line. Just something to think on

  8. Robert Jones says:

    Flashpoint:Paradox is on Netflix, some of the alternate timelines there are mind blowing

  9. Sarah says:

    What about changing it back on Arrow? Are we stuck with John Jr.? I’m assuming most viewers watch both but how confusing that must be for only Arrow viewers.

  10. jerry says:

    gave up on this show, way to many speedsters, and don’t care for their love story lines….

  11. Micaela says:

    I don’t think he can fix it to how it was i do believe they have established that numerous times plus he did agree with Jay that it was rile he moves forward. however who knows what shenanigans they’ll pull down the road. I actually like this new timeline so far love how all the characters are seeking on progress I especially enjoy that Barry and Iris aren’t dancing around each other anymore. The prospect of this apparent new speedster nemesis does seem a bit repetitive, but I’ll take their word for it that it will be a different spin on what they’ve already done. Alchemy and Julian have both been wonderful additions for me I look forward to swing how this plays out. As for wells 3.0 as long as he doesn’t turn out to be evil with some secret agenda to destroy Barry I’ll deal just wish they’d pick a Wells and stick with it or set Tom C free, o personally wouldn’t be able to handle a new Wells every season

  12. parstl says:

    It’s taken a few shows but I’m getting used to this timeline. Season two was a bit too focused on Jay and they virtually abandoned Iris except for a few episodes, though I did like Patty except for her trick on Barry on the train. It’s clear that the cast and producers like the actor playing Wells but a third one may be too much. I’m interested in seeing where the writers take this. Glad to see Joe may get a love interest and a hot one at that. They’ve definitely stepped up attractive attire for the actresses…I’m just saying.

  13. Azerty says:

    I am not sure I want to go back to the previous timeline. Cisco seems to have more depth and Caitlin for the first time in 3 years have an interesting storyline not about her love interest. For the rest of the crew in Flash there is no real changes so it doesn’t matter for now. I am pretty sure that Wally will get his powers this season but it would have happened, with or without Flashpoint. As for the changes in Arrow I don’t see why it is a problem they have erased baby Sara for baby John. Sara Lance is not dead anymore and it is not like the baby is a huge storyline in the present. It seems the writers have insisted enough by mentioning “baby John” in every scene Diggle and Lyla were in so we understand that there was a change.

    And to be honest if Barry resets the timeline AGAIN to back to normal, my theory that “Prometheus in Arrow is Tommy Merlyn back from the dead because of Flashpoint” is not valid anymore!!

    • mayen says:

      I don’t understand how Barry going back in time changed the course of one Diggle spermatozoid over another while racing towards Lyla’s ovaries but that’s what they went with. It’s a big deal because they replaced a potentially mask-less female character for a potential future mask. Make Lyla pregnant again if they wanted Connor Hawke aka John Jr. from Star City 2046. Easy.

  14. Michael says:

    I HATE the new timeline, and they said it would be only for a few episodes, I mean if they did the “Flashpoint” from the comics GREAT, it was so interesting, this one is just getting borning, I mean ever week its a new speedster, so the flash is not special anymore.

    • ndixit says:

      They never said it would only be for a few episodes. The whole point of Flashpoint is that time is far too mercurial to mess. In the comics, things were very different even after Barry reset the timeline. That was the start of the whole new 52 era of the DC comics. I don’t see why anyone would complain about the new timeline given its almost the same as the previous one. The only difference being that Caitlin actually has powers and gets to be involved in a storyline which is not about her heartbreak over her love interests.

  15. absherlock says:

    I think they need to explain why the team on Legends and the Reverse Flash are able to make changes in the past without there being (visible) repercussions in the present, but not Barry. It’s almost as if there different rules for different characters. If there’s a reason, great; otherwise, nothing makes sense.

  16. melaniedhi says:

    I’m perfectly happy with the post-flashpoint timeline. Never want to go back

  17. Creating new timelines and erasing character development, continuity, and story, isn’t “Challenging yourself” is it lazy as f. Instead of continuing to develop characters and building on what you create it’s starting over. What’s more “challenging” ornate and interesting: making a tall castle of cards or building a layer, knocking it down and rebuilding it? These guys don’t need “challenges” they need a plot that doesn’t involve Barry trusting a mentor figure who turns out to be evil.

  18. Ian says:

    This new timeline seems perfectly fine to stay in from here on, so i’m not sure why this is even a concern.
    The speedster big bads are rather tired now however. There’s richer stuff they could be doing thats all right there, like Cobalt Blue and where is Pied Piper?

  19. Luis Roman says:

    Given Jay Garrick’s description of the timeline as a coffee cup that gets a little more broken every time you try and fix it, it feels like this is going to be the new “normal” for Team Flash.

  20. weareetc says:

    I especially like how they created the future green arrow in John Jr, replacing Sara (Sarah?). Like it was shown in “Legends of Tomorrow” episode.

  21. QueenB says:

    Focus more on the dynamics of the team and less on Barry’s love life. Let Barry and Iris be happy together and please don’t reveal Julian as Alchemy. The biggest draw for me this season is Catlyn I’m looking forward to seeing that storyline playing out

  22. keenen says:

    I am sorry, I agree. I find it really insulting that Barry’s time travel has caused Diggle to lose a daughter and gain a son. And no, it won’t be o.k. if his wife has another baby and names her Sarah. There has to be more accountability than everyone just saying let’s move forward. I just don’t see where the change opened up any more compelling stories. We got Julian…yeah. Does Oliver even know? And other than Diggle and Sarah, how has this affected Arrow? Everything else seems the same…except I think maybe this is how they will explain the Season 2 Arrow baddie coming back….I am getting so checked out of these shows I can’t even remember who that is..

    I recall Joe not liking Eddie and Iris so much because Eddie was his partner and because he thought he and Iris were in love. I don’t remember him being so uncomfortable about them kissing, but then again I don’t remember if they kissed or touched in front of him, certainly not in his house. They started the multi universe thing too soon, they should have built move of a foundation of the show before they had Barry traveling to change time in the 1st season.

  23. Jeanna says:

    The new timeline definitely feels out of whack but it’s growing on me. Do want to say that Tom Cavanagh is sooooo good!

  24. anyone else think they’re going to do crisis on infinite earths to bring super-girl into the arrow-verse

  25. Kate says:

    I’m hoping they bring E-2 Wells and his daughter, Jessie, to stay permanently on E-1

  26. Tim McCane says:

    There is two main problem with them saying that he’ll never restore the original timeline……….1. In order for the entire story to happen, Reverse flash has to go back in time and try to kill the younger Barry and be stopped by Flash (That cant happen right now, because right now, Reverse flash knows who Barry is and knows that Barry stops him from killing the younger version) 2. The writers have completely skipped over the fact that if the captured Reverse flash killed Barry’s mom……then the Reverse flash who originally did it, and couldnt get back home, killed Wells and created the Flash NEVER happened

    • Tamara says:

      My thoughts exactly. Like, did season 1 even happen? Flashpoint is confusing and full of plot holes. At this point they need a Talking Flash show just to retain viewship because no one really understands what’s going on or knows for sure what happened in the last 2 seasons.

      I adore the cast and I watch to support them and Barry and Iris. But I think the writers and EP bit off more than they can successfully handle by doing Flashpoint.

  27. W0NK042 says:

    It had already been explained in the show (S03-E02) that the “Original” timeline is gone. No matter what you do, it can never be put back exactly the same way again.

  28. Brigid says:

    I don’t want it restored. It can’t be and shouldn’t be. These are the consequences for messing with time. I like the story and just don’t care about the little things like Diggles child now being a boy or Cisco’s brother being dead. We now have Caitlin having a story line that isn’t just being boring. I love the changes and I’m looking forward to how this all plays out!!!