Once Upon a Time Belle Spoilers

Matt's Inside Line: Scoop on Once, Flash, Lucifer, Suits, 24, Titans, HTGAWM, Castle, NCIS: LA and More

Will Wally West fulfill his fate in a Flash? Can Once Upon a Time‘s Belle avoid a pregnant pause? Which HTGAWM relationship is getting more complicated? Is Lucifer packing a “huge” surprise? Read on for answers to those questions plus teases from other shows

Would love some scoop on The Flash and Wally and Iris’ relationship. –Carrie
Though Joe has started to smooth things over with the lad, “Wally still has some rough edges to be sanded down,” affirms EP Andrew Kreisberg. And that’s where Iris steps in, beginning this Tuesday — just don’t expect a 180-degree turnaround for the angry youth. “It would be a disservice to the character if suddenly everything was hunky dory with him,” says Kreisberg. When we met Wally, “He was about to lose his mother, the only family he’s ever known; he has this ‘instant family’ that is trying to figure out a way not to drive him away while also giving him the love that they so desperately want to give him; and he’s also a young man. All of that is a hard road to travel, and it is going to have its bumps and its miscommunications, but ultimately — and this is no surprise if you read the comics — it’s all heading toward a good place.”

Is there anything coming up for The Flash‘s Jay and Caitlin? –Justin
As we’ve started to see, Caitlin is determined to keep Jay from dying, having not had the same option the two times she lost Ronnie. “When Ronnie died, both times he was literally snatched out of Caitlin’s life. She had to stand by and watch, helpless,” EP Andrew Kreisberg notes. “But the problem that Jay is facing is [based in] biochemistry — her specialty — so she is determined to not let history repeat itself. Instead of being a victim of fate, she is now in the driver’s seat, and that creates a very different dynamic for her. It definitely lets her shine, while also showing a vulnerability to Jay. It’s always hard to see your heroes be weak, and in some ways it’s harder for the hero themselves, to need to be saved. “

I was wondering if you could share any information about Once Upon a Time’s Belle and the challenges she might be facing in Season 5B? –Todd
In addition to the flashback featuring (a new) Gaston and leading right up to the events of Season 1’s “Skin Deep,” “We have plans to keep Belle busy,” co-creator Adam Horowitz assures. “Although she didn’t get on the boat [to the Underworld] with our heroes, she’s important to the story and becomes very involved.” As for her rekindled romance with Rumple, “We left them in a place where that relationship was evolving” — though unbeknownst to Belle (played by a pregnant Emilie de Ravin), her husband has gone darker than ever. “We’re not abandoning any of those story threads,” says the EP, “and we’re hoping to pick up on them in an unexpected way.”

Will Castle have a two-parter after it comes back in February? –Rachael
There won’t be a traditional February sweeps two-parter, though it’s my understanding that Episodes 13 and 14 (the latter of which features Rick, Alexis and Hayley’s trip to L.A.) are companion pieces of a sort.

That mid-season finale of How to Get Away With Murder left me breathless. Any scoop you have on the premiere would be appreciated. –AdMa
Karla Souza tells me that in the wake of the finale’s big jaw droppers, Laurel’s relationship with Annalise will only strengthen. “You’ll see, in the first episode back — it’s like a whole thing, that nobody knows about. Annalise dumps a lot of responsibility on her, and you’re going to see how Laurel deals with it.” Souza also says that Laurel’s already-odd protectiveness of Wes becomes “more complicated and more bizarre,” while the fact that Annalise knows secrets about Laurel’s father points toward a new kind of mystery. “Laurel realizes that this woman knows more about us than we even know, that there’s a reason why she picked every one of us,” Souza says. “And that’s going to open up a whole other emotional journey for each of them.”

Is there any chance another network will pick up Titans, now that TNT has abandoned it? –Greg
Interestingly, when we chatted up DC Entertainment CCO Geoff Johns at TCA — just days after TNT let slip the bad news — he shared, “We [at DC] have known about [Turner nixing Titans] for months and months and months. That’s not new news to us.” The silver lining: Regardless of the basic cabler’s decision, “We have plans for Titans,” Johns asserted. “It’s a huge piece of DC and we have plans.”

I see no chatter about Clark’s appearance on Supergirl. Do we get teenage Kal-El in Episode 13? –Ashley
Indeed, you do. Daniel DiMaggio, who played a young Michael Westen on Burn Notice (and whose credits also include The Haunted Hathaways), plays Kal-El in next Monday’s Krypton-set “For The Girl Who Has Everything.”

Can you please give me Suits - Season 5some information on Suits? –bevieg
Scottie and Trevor’s returns in the season premiere were just the tip of the iceberg. Word of Mike’s arrest “getting out there, and the desire to ultimately fight the charges, is going to bring people out of the woodwork,” executive producer Aaron Korsh previews. “We’re going to meet a lot of old friends and foes, not just in the search for who turned Mike in, but a lot of it is in the defense that we’re going to be constructing over these last six episodes.”

Any inside info on Shameless? –Whitney
We have not seen the last of Fiona’s angry hubby (played by Steve Kazee). “Gus is still bitter about what she did,” exec producer Nancy Pimental describes. “He’s going to make her jump through some hoops, and he’s going to make her pay in his own special way.”

After what you said in your TV Questions column, should Arrow fans be worried about Katana? —Leanne
Meaning, is she being brought back just to be written off à la Deadshot and Waller, other DC Comics characters that existed on Arrow but will also be in August’s Suicide Squad movie? That I do not know, though Katana’s nest appearance promises to be “surprising.” As EP Wendy Mericle told me, “We loved that Tatsu last season kind of evolved into [Katana], so we’re really excited about her return. It was great to have Rila [Fukushima] back and to see that character again, but it’ll be kind of a new, surprising way that we do it.”

Anything Lucifer-related? –Lindsay
Lauren German teased this about the first time Chloe lays eyes on Lucifer’s hell of a house: “The first time I walk in, let’s just say that I’m very impressed. The bar alone, it’s like 900 whiskey bottles. And then I am very much surprised and shocked at what I see next. Lucifer makes a huge entrance,” she shared with a laugh. “Chloe gets really red in the scene and really, really shocked.”

What did Howard Gordon Yvonne Strahovski 24 Returnssay to you about not using Yvonne Strahovski’s Kate Morgan in 24: Legacy? –Justin
It’s not that he ruled out using her (or other past characters) at all, he simply shared that a Kate-centric revival was among the pondered, but ultimately passed on, possibilities. “We’ve been thinking about this forever, even before [Live Another Day]: Is there a new series [to be launched]? Is 24 Jack Bauer? For the longest time it was, until after Live Another Day we all felt his story really has been told.” For the reboot/revival, “Kate was [considered as the focus], but we took a lot of runs at this until we found the right configuration,” he said. “We’re not just doing this as a callow exercise in bringing an old title back.” That said, Jack, Kate et al remain “in the 24-verse” and “of course” may get shout-outs, Gordon allows. “Everybody’s fair game!”

Will NCIS: LA‘s Nell and Eric be out of Ops and in the field together in any scenes coming up? –Tony
Nell was just recently out in the field, on the boat with Kensi and Deeks, so it is now Eric’s turn to break away from the keyboards and monitors, in the Feb. 22 episode.

On Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., will we see Andrew again or is he now just Lash? –Susan
Last we saw, Andrew seemed in control of his “Lashing out,” but whether he can ever be separated from his Inhuman alter ego — especially after indulging in that grisly rampage! — remains to be seen. “In her hope of hopes, May’s hoping [Andrew can be brought back],” says Ming-Na Wen, “but… I don’t think it’s happening. But I just don’t know!”

Real questions, real answers. If you need the Inside Line on a favorite show, email InsideLine@tvline.com!  (With reporting by Vlada Gelman and Michael Maloney)

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. As much as I love her, is Jemma going to be held responsible for letting Andrew go free or no? And will those who hate Ward turn on Andrew (who I do like and wish they had done something different with him) since he can control turning into Lash now? I’m guessing the answer is “no” to both of those.

  2. Airsay says:

    Can’t wait to see Caitlin shine on the Flash.

    • Gail says:

      Only one week to the Welcome To Earth 2 episode where we see Caitlin of Earth 2 as Killer Frost.

      • Gail says:

        Spoilers? Episode description for Welcome to Earth 2 the first of a two part episode

        Barry, Wells and Cisco journey to Earth-2 to rescue Wells’ daughter, Jesse, from Zoom. Barry is stunned when he runs into Earth-2 Iris and Joe, but nothing prepares him for meeting Killer Frost and Deathstorm. Meanwhile, back on Earth-1, Jay has to take over the Flash’s responsibilities when a meta-human nicknamed Geomancer attacks Central City.[2]

  3. Goldenvibefan says:

    Big plans for titans. I’m guessing that it’ll be a titans movie after the cyborg one. Even though it would be the perfect show for cw..

    • Azerty says:

      I wanted so much to see Roy leave Arrow to join a lonely Dick Grayson/ Nightwing to start the Titans on a brand new CW show…

      • Goldenvibefan says:

        Yea that would be awesome!!!!! Ever since Roy came on the show, I kept thinking about the possibilities :). The only problem with a possible cw titans being connected to the other shows would be wally. CW Wally is nothing like the wally thats in the teen titans, so I just hope that if this does happen (I hope it will), they use bart or something instead of wally.

  4. frankie says:

    I always knew that Annalisse had a reason to pick particularly her students to work with her. I bet she knows secrets about each of them and knows stories .

  5. Vari says:

    Belle as a character as left me disappointed. Flip flopping she has with Rumple (he is a bigger douche then ever) i kinda hope Gaston is a good guy here… i wonder if she knows Rumple turned him a rose and then presented to her ewwwww.

    • Kelly says:

      Same. Not really interested in her character any longer. They really don’t seem to know what to do with her and the whole together, break up, together, break up with Rumple has got tedious for me. Whenever they split it doesn’t have any impact because she always goes back to him. Rumple works best as a villain and I do think it shows that Belle was only supposed to be in one episode. I think they should’ve stuck to that.

      • Vari says:

        Rumple is the show’s villain. Always has been. I dont look at him anything else.
        Belle was only suppose to be in one episode… but since ppl liked skin deep it seems, they kept her on. Fanservice that is. It was never the plan.

        • Sophia says:

          Fanservice from the people that watchs a show for Hook chest hair but here we are isn’t.

          • Vari says:

            Stupid comment was actually waiting for one. Whatever. Get your facts right and yeah i do like Hook and like the whole show.. Belle was brought in because of that. As a guest character for ONE episode.
            Hook was already main regular cast member before his first episode aired. So it wasnt fanservice.. since none of the fans saw him when they made the decision to upgrade him before the first episode aired.

          • BBnov says:

            LOL good one, Belle was a wonderful character but they had made her occ lately and I hope season one Belle comes back,also some good Rumbelle scenes would be wonderful, Rumple is, after all, the only reason to watch the show, and Regina, even if the writers have made them do some out of character things, like him taking the DO back, but what can we expect from a show that seems hellbent on showing a useless pirate as a good guy, and making back flips to make the bad and evil things he does as something good, look what happened at the end of the last half season, Hook was the one who bring the DO back to SB so that they took the place of Emma`s family (and Rumple) and send the souls of all the people that Emma loved to the underworld for eternity, JUST BECAUSE SHE SAVED HIS LIFE, and in the last SECOND he changed his mind and tried to RECTIFY what he did, and he called himself a hero, LOL, but since Rumple took the DO powers back he is the very worst bad guy, oh boy the double standards of this show are yuk. But on the bright side Robert and Lana acting is still beautiful to watch and having Belle be season one Belle would be a dream come true.

          • Sophia says:

            Vary, chill child. I dont get this thing of some Hook fans of feel diminished by others and their try of compensate at make competition of everything, but sweet, i was oncer long long time ago and I saw by first hand the origin of Hook. Let me tell you an old story: Hook was too, an one episode character for “Crocodile”, but happened that when the first promo for Crocodile appeared with Hook, the character become very fast popular for handsome. The people begun to ask to horowitz and abc, “who its the hot guy with guyliner” and after that 1 or two perhaps 3 days later of the promo was oficially announced the contract to Colin and Hook like new member of the Cast. Thank god that Colin was a God actor and with that owned his permanence in the show, but that dont changes that the Origin of Hook like Cast was for handsome. And sweet what if, be proud. Look emilie got her contract after the impact that Skin Deep had in many lives, me included at who saved of suicide, so, whatever the reason she got her contract, im happy and thankful because I love Emilie and Im a proud beauty thsnkd to the charm of her portray of Belle French which has owned her permanence in the show.

          • zumpie says:

            Wow, you DO like fairy tales, don’t you? Especially the fact-free ones you create entirely on your own!

            Colin was initially signed as a recurring guest and then promoted to series regular well before his first episode aired or was promo’d. And was already filming subsequent episodes to The Crocodile when he was promoted. He was cast and promoted within a month. His promotion announcement was merely timed to occur the day after a picture of him as Hook was released.

            He was never hired to simply be in one episode. That would’ve been pointless.

            Because what YOU just described would’ve entailed rewriting and scrapping quite a few completed episodes, to say nothing of the impossible logistics involved in contract negotiations over such a short space of time (which, BTW, aren’t simply between producers and actors, but agents, attorneys, the network, financial analysts, etc).

            Now while it’s easy enough to make things work in Emilie’s situation (brought back months later and then made a recurring character in season two), doing what you describe in Colin’s would’ve been impossible (both financially and time frame-wise).

        • K says:

          Actually Jane Espenson said that the “plan” changed WHILE they were writing Skin Deep, which is why Belle remained alive at the end, and why she guest-starred in Dreamy, which was written and filmed before Skin Deep ever aired. But yes, she was an instantly popular character.

        • crysania4 says:

          I hear this all the time and yet the episode ended with showing Belle alive in Storybrooke. And I’m sure the finale of the season, when she got out of the asylum, was already written before Skin Deep even aired. They ASKED her for one episode, but I suspect they hoped to snag her further down the line for more since they left that so open-ended and placed her in Storybrooke.

          There are certainly couples who are fan service on this show, but it’s not Rumbelle. If Rumbelle were fan service they’d actually be together.

          • zumpie says:

            And they could’ve simply kept her locked up down there or never mentioned her again—plenty of other couples were shown alive or even happy in SB, yet we never saw them again. A&E themselves have stated she was originally meant as a one episode character, but I’m sure you know better than they do, right?

            Plus, using your argument, then CS wouldn’t be separated, either, with Hook dead if they were fan service—-and actually, in the current plot Rumbelle IS together, just he’s deceiving her. I know it’s hard to keep pace when you don’t really watch the show, but try

    • K says:

      I find it hard to worry about Gaston considering that he showed up to kill Rumple. Turning him into a rose is much nicer than turning him into a snail. It will be annoying (but unsurprising on this show) if Belle is presented as mad about Gaston when she forgave the man who tried to kill her four times and the woman who ripped out her heart, but we know that for Kitsowitz the rules are always different for Rumple than they are for Hook or Regina.

      • zumpie says:

        Actually, he showed up to rescue Belle, so she could be free. Turning him into a cut rose (that would die inevitably) and presenting your murder trophy to the young woman you’ve enslaved to then unwittingly further maim is not any “nicer” than murdering someone in another, similarly brutal and degrading manner.

        It’s interesting you bring both Hook and Regina into a discussion that has A) nothing to do with them and B) still get your facts wrong (Hook tried to kill her twice, far fewer than Goldemorte tried to kill Emma OR Henry. And he only tried to kill Milah once, cause he succeeded).

        That said, A&E don’t have to apply any rules, judiciously or otherwise to their characters: it’s their show and they can write it however they please. Your entitled outrage over not getting your way (because you fail to comprehend basic narrative structure) is laughable.

        BTW…..Belle is most likely mad that A) Goldemorte murdered Gaston and lied about it and B) that SparkleKreeper chose once again to become the DO and lied about THAT.

        • Sophia says:

          I dont know what she wrote but zumpie its a troll of tumblr…what an honour…you were spying tags again sweet ?

          • zumpie says:

            Wow, didn’t realize you determine what anyone’s permitted to read and comment on the internet! However, I will report you!

        • Danen says:

          Oh! Look you are not talking about the bunch of rings Hook keeps as trophies! Why would that be? You falied to understand basic narrativa structure?

          • Zumpie says:

            You mean the 3 or 4 rings belonging to other pirates/bad guys, that he expressed deep remorse over and has repeatedly rejected (including 3 times sacrifing his life, to say nothing of countless times risking it), versus an entire shop full of trophies from innocents, Including body parts? While seeking to embrace that same evil at every turn?

            Yes, I do fully follow the narrative, thank you.

          • Danen says:

            Oh yeah I forgot where he said those rings where from “bad guys” hahahahaha thats a good one I am really laughing at this! also the part where he tried to bring all the dark ones to kill her TL family or that time he tried to blow up storybrooke with the trigger and I could go on and on and you will justify him everytime, but hey! He regretted it in the end and he autoproclaimed himself as a hero! How could I forgot how a saint he is. Can you honestly tell me something bad about Hook? He is such a good guy! A hero! Oh God am really laughing here. But I respect your idea is your way to see things, at least is funny…

      • crysania4 says:

        Belle already gave her opinion of Gaston. He’s superficial and she could never love him. We also saw him as obnoxiously misgynistic. “She’s MINE” sort of attitude. And he shows up MONTHS later to “rescue” her? Right. She might be annoyed Rumple turned him into a rose, even though that was just meant as a bit of comic relief, especially or BatB fans who can’t stand Gaston. These people wanting Belle to jump into his arms don’t care what he’s like. They only care that he’s NOT Rumple. I mean, they wanted her with Ruby (who didn’t do a darned thing for her when she was in the hospital, didn’t try to help, and also chained her up and then left her there for someone else to deal with). And they wanted her with Will (who was MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE). They’re so anti-Rumple that they simply don’t care who Belle is with, as long as it’s him. Too bad that’s not gonna happen.

        • emospritelet says:

          *claps* exactly. Unless the Once writers completely change his personality, Gaston is a shallow, misogynist asshole with no appreciation for a woman with a mind of her own. There’s no way Belle could ever be into someone like that

          • betsypaige says:

            Sadly (actually, happily) haters will be disappointed when they see that Her Handsome Hero emphasizes how little Gaston (“I FORBID you”) understands Belle (or even wants to) and how much Rumple did. Rumple encouraged her intelligence, her curiosity, her desire to have adventures and be a hero – and he loved her enough to let her go despite knowing he’d be miserable. So while the haters play Twister trying to manipulate this episode into something they can swallow, everyone else will be living in reality and loving it. Rumbelle are in a good place now, and they will be, so those who hate them as individuals and as a couple will have to deal with it.

        • betsypaige says:

          Gaston wanted to “rescue” Belle because he didn’t care that she’d made her own decision. He wanted to look like a “hero” to everyone -and no doubt wanted her back so she could be a wife and baby machine.

          • zumpie says:

            Her own “decision” to be enslaved, tortured and abused? Because it was that or watch her people die? A) that’s called coercion. B) yes, how empowering.

            Also, I don’t think Gaston arrived “months later”, but who knows what trials awaited him in the process. The misogynist was the guy who first called her “the price” and then proceeded to lie, abuse and gaslight her.

            But hey, I’m pretty sure Belle won’t be particularly amused when she finds out the truth, so I kinda suspect the ones who will be disappointed (again, per the narrative) are you Rumbellers—cause in a “good place and encouraged her intelligence”??? Is laughable. He’s lying to her, per usual, about something major. How deeply in denial ARE you?

  6. Alexis says:

    Can’t wait to see more of Iris/Wally’s dynamic

  7. Sof says:

    YES. So excited about this Iris storyline !!

  8. JCPrime says:

    Thanks Matt!

  9. Piper says:

    Looking forward to Iris and Wally getting closer, like in the comics.

  10. brad says:

    iam curious if stana is even in 8×14

  11. JSS says:

    Yvonne Strahovski is better off without this likely to fail 24 spinoff on her resume.

    • Giant Blonde She-Male of Thailand says:

      Now that they eliminated Yvonne Strahovski as Kate Morgan as the reboot character and no Jack Bauer either, I can safely say I will not watch the reboot.The only way I would watch is if Kate (or Tony) were the rebooted lead.What would have been great, reboot with Kate and have Tony, one way or another, join forces with her.

  12. Alex says:

    I don’t get why Beckett couln’t be a part of the trip in LA with Castle, Alexis, Hayley, and even Ryan and Espo, THAT would have been something different. But no, we’ll have the precinct on one hand and the 3 super detectives on the other 😩

    • Kelly says:

      I HATE that they are doing an LA episode with Castle, Alexis and Hayley. The original LA episode was a big Caskett moment that fans will always remember. Why go back there without Caskett? It makes no sense unless all they want to do is irritate diehard fans.

      • Susan Smith says:

        The writers are rewriting Castle (And Caskett)history.In Always Kate realized “all I want is you” yet this ridiculous LocStat arch in episode 8 she “realized she couldn’t do it without him”. Castle is now Castle PI. A writer and his muse is now Castle PI and Captain Beckett spending 6 minutes of screen time together. Instead of Caskett working and loving together it is a Firefly and OLTL reunion almost every week.None of this is the Castle loyal fans watched ,loved, and supported for 7 years.It looks like Egos and the desire to make Castle something entirely different than what it is has led to literally millions of fans jumping ship. And to make it worse the writers have disparaged Kate Beckett where she has regressed.Her integrity is sometimes questionable.And many of us place that directly on the writers being intimidated by a strong,intelligent, woman character. Javier called her a hochie mama and Castle thought it was funny and didn’t defend Beckett. The whole premise of LocStat shows lack of creativity.The rewriting of Caskett history has ruined the show. The writers have said FU fans we want a Castle spinoff so we will sacrifice Castle,Caskett ,and Beckett’s character to set up the spinoff. ABC has lost my confidence.I may not support their shows if that’s the way they treat the fans of their shows.Nope .

        • Night Owl says:

          I still say that we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes that has caused them to feel the need to do this.

          • Susan Smith says:

            Well the Firefly/OLTL reunions make me have an idea.Looks like the frat boys are in control now

          • Susan Smith says:

            It’s the rewriting of the history of Castle that angers a lot of us from everything I have read.Always, the trip to LA.,Castle doesn’t write books anymore. Whatever is happening you can’t change the reality of the past. To deny those and go back and tear each one up and change it is an insult to the fans and at least to Beckett who is being pushed aside.

        • Maria says:

          I agree with everything you wrote.
          I haven’t watched a new episode since November. Every time I see Castle mentioned here at TVLine I read the article, hoping to find a reason to start watching again. And so far I haven’t found that reason.

  13. Drew says:

    I’ve been a fan of Wally West for a long time, both in the comics and when he was used on the Justice League animated series. He was a big, vibrant character. That said, I’ve been rather unimpressed with his appearances on The Flash. There’s no charisma. No chemistry with anyone else on the cast. It’s all just bland. The long-lost-brother story has been played a billion times on TV. At this point, it’s like paint by numbers, and Wally hasn’t added anything to that mix.
    With Once Upon a Time, I think it was a huge mistake to take Rumple back to square one. They spent so much time moving that story to a new place, and then just reset it. But then, the writing has been weak for a long time.
    I do want to see Titans happen! More than that, I’d love to see it happen in the Arrow/Flash/Legends universe. But… it would be cool if they took it somewhere where they could play it a little darker and grittier. Daredevil technically exists in the same world as Agents of SHIELD and The Avengers, but it couldn’t be more different. I’d like to see a version of this comic book world that is more like an FX or Netflix series, but still has potential to cross over when needed.

    • Vari says:

      Rumple getting a new heart was crappy thing to do anyhow. He didnt do anything at all to deserve one

      • Sophia says:

        Ah dont worry, they rekinded the same episode for what I heard so…. the same story for him…he needs a take of he laughing like cartonish villain and a moustache to touch do at least i get fun of it…

      • BBnov says:

        Because he sacrificing his life to save SB and his loved ones is nothing to account for, right, then, that means that Hook is in his rightful place now that he is in the underworld, after all he had done nothing to deserve been saved.

        • zumpie says:

          Except none of them would’ve been in SB if he hadn’t manipulated events to put them all there. And rob poor Emma of birthright, as well as everyone else of 3 decades of their agency and happiness.

          BTW, on rewatching the scene, he only makes his sacrifice (and would’ve died anyway, even if he hadn’t) to save BagelBelle. Meanwhile, he’s tried to murder everyone else countless times in his quest for power and plenty of others have sacrificed their lives truly for everyone, more than once.

          But hey, enjoy your fanfic in your head….the rest of us prefer the actual canon show on our TV screen!

      • Naoyusimi says:

        He shouldn’t have to “deserve” a “new heart” (it wasn’t)–he was under a curse. Removing it was the right thing to do. Something the “heroes” should have tried to help with a long time ago. He “deserves” to have the curse of the Dark One broken just as much as Emma or anyone else under a curse does.

        The Apprentice removed the Darkness from him and his heart was the way it was–white. It’s silly to rail against that and say “he doesn’t deserve it”.

        And those jerks downthread who whine the Darkness wouldn’t have been in Storybrooke in the first place if it wasn’t for Rumpelstiltskin apparently think that he should have stayed out and died. Too bad for you, but the show can’t lose its main contagonist and best actor. I don’t blame him for bending to Zelena’s blackmail and coming back to Storybrooke to try to change his fate. In fact, it’s silly that he was framed as such a villain in 4B, when he was only trying to do what Regina was trying to do–and his methods were no worse. In fact, I think he did nothing that “evil” in 4B, whereas Regina . . . well, yelling at a little boy, kidnapping him, stealing blood from Lily, ripping out Belle’s heart, and many more. I guess when you’re wearing the “hero” label, the ends justify the means.

        • zumpie says:

          He was under a curse he chose of his own free will and then spent 300 years seeking to retain and, in fact, just took back again, all of his own free will. He did not have voices seeking to control him, he was immediately fully seduced by the darkness and enjoyed it. He had, additionally, numerous other opportunities to be free and eschewed them, because he loved the power.

          Additionally, his heart turned fully black because he had just finished condemning them to an AU where he’d get HIS HE and they’d all spend eternity tortured. He had so little respect for Belle that he mind-wiped her and thus was raping her in this AU. Prior to that he had cyber stalked Belle, marched on SB, imperiled Henry (not knowing Cruella couldn’t kill him) so he could literally rob Emma of her soul to get the above AU. To say nothing of his numerous murder attempts on everyone in 4A (days after they had saved HIS life from Zelena), etc….

          So no, the “right thing to do” wasn’t to give him an undeserved reset (which he then wasted, which was the point of the narrative), the “right thing to do” (for all the others who were imperiled by all this) was to push him across the town line and watch him die.

          • Naoyusimi says:

            I’ve never seen someone watch a show and get it so totally wrong as you do, Zumpie–but that only makes sense for someone who spends so much free time having apoplectic fits about Rumpelstiltskin on every forum you can find.
            1) He didn’t know he was choosing a CURSE when he killed Zoso; he thought he’d turn the magic and use it for good; 2) There is canon evidence he had voices seeking to control him, particularly in the 3rd season, when he sing-songed, “All the voices in my head, will be quiet when I’m dead”; 3) There is canon evidence that he was immediately taken by the Darkness because he had to kill to protect his son; however, there’s evidence that he did NOT enjoy everything he did, and tons of evidence showing him fighting that Darkness for centuries; 4) Isaac wrote the AU story, not Rumpelstiltskin, so he did nothing you describe; 5) He also wasn’t going to steal anyone’s soul; he let Emma make her own choices; 6) They may have saved him from Zelena’s slavery, but that was a byproduct of stopping her, and they continued to want him enslaved by the dagger, as evidenced by the fact that they did NOT return his dagger to him, but to Belle. The “heroes” left him in a cage when they found him there, at least TWICE.

            Numerous murder attempts in 4A? I’m trying to think . . . he hatted the Apprentice, the Fairies, and Emma, which did not kill them. Oh, you mean Hook, his constant enemy, the dork who keeps coming after him trying to get his revenge, and failing miserably? Yeah, he tried to kill him. For a spell to free himself from the dagger. I don’t blame him for *that*. Who else did he attempt to kill in 4A?

            You’ll notice he seemed to be free of the curse in the AU, though. That was his dream: To be someone that Baelfire could be proud of, a hero, a user of Light Magic. His “reset” was completely deserved. If anyone does, he does, fighting against the Darkness for all of that time, and all of the good he’s managed to do. I know you ONLY want to look at the bad, because that’s the way you first encountered the character, but for those of us who were paying attention, he is as deserving of Emma of “savior” status and of forgiveness for his bad choices.

            You simply want to kill off the most important story-mover, the contagonist, and rid the show of its best actor, and that’s not going to happen. Sorry not sorry! :-D

          • Danen says:

            I think the same thing but I didnt bother to reply her because she somehow is going to find a way to make Hook a saint and trash Rumple. She is determinated to harass every single forum she is not called in. If se killed every character she doesnt like there would be just Hook.

          • zumpie says:

            And yet here you both are, trolling this forum, apparently more aware of my activity internet-wide than I am and seem to have a great deal of free time to do so. Funny how you view it as fine for yourselves, but not for anyone with a different viewpoint. Hypocrite, much?

          • Danen says:

            Well you are also here, so that makes three of us. Good try.

          • zumpie says:

            Ahhhhh, but all I did was make a canon supported argument and have it affirmed by Matt. You would be the one who sought to personally insult (repeatedly), question and disparage the activities from pure, apparently, pathetic envy. I merely then held the mirror up to you to point out all you were accusing me of, you were already guilty of.

            Actually, completely different. Again, it makes you a hypocrite and me a poster. But please, keep failing

          • Brigid says:

            I agree with zumpie on the fact that there is no one on this show that comes even close to the evil of Rumplestiltskin. How can you justify anything that he has done over the years? EVERY TIME he chooses darkness over people he loves. He is numero uno evil, then Regina and then Hook. You OUT fans make excuses for whatever character you like and and trash others for the same thing. You can’t justify evil, you can only resist it and move forward by doing things to repent. Rumple always gets close and then once again chooses evil. Belle looks like a fool believing in him every time. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

          • Naoyusimi says:

            Ha! It’s plain we’re not watching the same show. “Every time he chooses darkness over people he loves”? Um, yeah–when did he have that choice? You mean in “Skin Deep”? That wasn’t him choosing Darkness; he couldn’t lose his powers yet, since his main goal was finding his son in another realm. When he took revenge on Regina for capturing Belle and keeping her locked away for about 30 years? When he protected Snow from Regina in season 2? When he helped the “heroes” numerous times in because Belle batted her beautiful eyes at him? When he helped to save Henry? When he gave up his life to get rid of Pan? When he was resurrected and had a choice between being enslaved and trying to save his son, so he saved Neal? When he was going to leave Storybrooke with those loved ones in season 4? When he came back in season 4B, he was trying to save the last of his ability to love, so that the Dark One wouldn’t be fully unleashed. I’d say that’s choosing love over Darkness. Nearly. Every. Time.

            In 5A, he never had a choice between his loved ones and the Darkness. At the well, in “Broken Heart,” Belle said she needed time. So, Rumpel made sure she could get away, seek the adventures she always wanted, gave her his car, and told her to go find her happiness. He took the Darkness back when the situation looked grim and hopeless. Why not? Facing what they were facing, he might as well try for a Hail Mary play. He’s smart and pragmatic, but that doesn’t make him “numero uno evil”.

            Fairytales were always black-and-white, but OUAT used to do well with the shaded gray characters in their stories. Too many viewers want the black-and-white, but I left that childlike storytelling behind.

  14. Diana says:

    It’ll be fun to see Iris and Wally get closer!

  15. Alicia Gray says:

    Can we NOT on this 24 thing?

  16. Angela says:

    Ooh, cool, I look forward to seeing how Laurel grows in the wake of everything with Annalise. I definitely see her following in Annalise’s footsteps in a lot of ways. And this whole thing about Laurel kinda looking out for Wes has me curious, too. Hm. I’m so excited for this show’s return.

  17. Cilla says:

    Thank you for the Wally and Iris scoop.

  18. Trish says:

    Iris and Wally GIVE IT TO MEEEEEEE. Thanks for the scoop Matt really looking fwd to tonight’s episode

  19. Bart Allen says:

    Wally West is the One True Flash.

    • ndixit says:

      Not this Wally West! This character is nothing like the Wally West that became such an iconic character.

    • Lea says:

      No, he is not. Barry Allen is and will always be the one true Flash.

      Even in the Justice League cartoon, they gave Wally Barry’s origin story, profession, personality and powers. He was Wally in name and hair only.

    • Phoenix5644 says:

      Barry Allen is the most significant Flash, both in the comics, and especially now on the show. The show better stay focused on him as the main Flash. I’m fine with other speedsters, like Wally, but I just hope Grant Gustin as Barry Allen stays the main Flash storyline.

    • Drew says:

      To a whole generation, this is correct. Which is why so many people were upset when DC shredded the character in the comic book reboot. I like all of the Flashes, but Wally is the one I read when I was still reading comics. He was the Flash for decades and should be treated with some respect by comic book writers and the TV show producers.

  20. Emily says:

    Thanks for the West family scoop! I hope we get more of them and their dynamic than we’ve gotten so far this season.

  21. Mr. Tran K says:

    It was a difficult decision on Howard Gordon’s part that he doesn’t want Yvonne Strahovski to return as Kate Morgan in 24: Legacy.

    • JSS says:

      Howard Gordon never said Yvonne was never offered a role in the new spinoff, only that they considered Kate at one point. Maybe she wasn’t even interested.

    • Giant Blonde She-Male of Thailand says:

      And it is a very easy decision to NOT watch if Yvonne/Kate and or Tony Almeida is not in it

  22. Fran says:

    Can’t wait to see Castle back!!!

  23. Mak says:

    Thanks Matt!

  24. Mak says:

    Also I’m excited about HTGAWM, Laurel especially has been very marginal. After Bonnie stepped down & Laurel filled in Bonnie’s position, I felt there was some juiciness to that and I can’t wait.

  25. teri says:

    Cant wait for Castle to return. It is always my “go to” show. All Castle fans, please show some major support.

  26. Thanks Matt. Can’t wait to see more of Iris and Wally interacting and forming their own special bond.

  27. lame says:

    Ha,ha, how about holding your fire until you see the episode.True season 8 has been a let down but damn, Winter/Hawley, just might accidentally write something special. Well one can hope.

    • Susan Smith says:

      Honestly unless something drastic happens the trajectory of the show is pretty clear.Even accidentally I don’t think they can pull it off.Very sad

  28. caitlin says:

    @Matt where is your promised interview with Stana Katic?

  29. Sam says:

    A little bit off topic but does anyone know when Reign will be back now that The Vampire Diaries and the Originals have moved into its Friday night slot? I’m missing French Court already!!!

  30. Aliah Berry says:

    Iris West and Wally West! So excited for them!

  31. Sophi says:

    I love Belle character, I love Rumple character I love the Romance of Rumple and Belle…I just dont love what the show has done with them individual and together so, I mantain myself far far faaaar away of the show and very married to the fandom of them…Belle behind and Rumple evil sound too much familiar that Im sorry but i can predict with 100% what its gonna happen there. Smells to rotten bread. Rumple of the show is BORING because they took away his center and sense, his heart.

    • Sophia says:

      Ok again again…i really want this open heart apparently because it will be the last hint to the showrunners for my part and im sentimental with the wantof my tattoo of “Do the brave thing and bravery will follow…” so.. Sigh.I love the character and the amazing portray that Emilie de Ravin does of this intelligent, brave, childish, femenine, innocent and open hearted woman. I love Belle French and her love story. I love all the creative fuel that after so long, keeps giving to me because I draw, write, compose, sing, learned to gif, graphic art and sew, i and made amazing friends for the love and fun that her story and of her chipped cup gives me. And this its the point because I want but I can’t watch the show, and this makes me angry. Because the sudden decision of the creators to change the plans about my favs makes me avoid the show. I want to watch and enjoy my character of Belle and Rumple but the creators killed slowly my interest for the show. When you try to sabotage my characters, its not my love for them, but for the show who dies. So I gave up. Too many vanished hopes and empty promises. At this point I dont await with excitement every season but with terror of all the trash that will done to us. You took away my fun at watch your show. Give me reasons to return at be excited with truth and respect for my characters because of empty words i know all. Until then i will avoid the show and mantain myself in my happy corner.

      • zumpie says:

        So how dare A&E write the show according to their vision and not your head canon? Good to know. However, if you no longer watch, why are you all over a spoilers page?

        • Sophia says:

          Read the comment, understand the content and then answer sweet. The answer its there. But chill child, that is how the world works, people will have other opinions an be right…its not a competition about who answer more but I imagine how much stress causes don’t understand how people dare people had another vision that its different to your head canon zuchie how dare they! Giggle…

  32. Mo says:

    Dear god and or goddess, the gang’s trip to E2 better be GREAT or this season will officially suck.

  33. wonderwall says:

    Psst, there’s a typo that sort of bothers me :

    “That I do not know, though Katana’s [nest] appearance promises to be “surprising.” As EP Wendy Mericle told me…”

  34. It's Delovely says:

    Thanks as always, Matt, for asking about Belle. In spite of negative comments from a couple of people in this comment section, she still has plenty of fans who are happy to hear that she will have a storyline in 5B and that the arc won’t be entirely focused on #SaveHook. I love Belle, love Rumple/Belle, and hope they get some exciting, new material with their storyline.

  35. K says:

    Thank you for the Belle scoop–it’s always great to hear about her (now if only Emilie de Ravin would do some interviews about Once again…hint, hint). I’m excited that the Gaston story will be leading into Skin Deep–we know that Belle was the one who came up with the idea to call on Rumple for help, and that Maurice was dead set against it, so it will be interesting to see how she persuaded him. I wish I could believe Adam that she will be “very involved” in the ongoing story.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      Hopefully I’ll see EdR at the 100th episode party next week.

      • Rebecca says:

        Thanx for the Belle scoop but is there any info as to why we won’t be seeing Colette again this season since the characters are in the UW?

      • betsypaige says:

        There’s a party for the 100th episode next week? Oh, I hope you do see her!

        • betsypaige says:

          I meant to add: Thank you, Matt, for your Belle/Rumbelle scoop! She and they have plenty of fans who were eager for more information and now we’re even more excited. I can’t wait to find out if Belle is pregnant and I can’t wait to see her be more involved with the main arc. More Rumbelle? Yay! So – thanks again, Matt – it’s much appreciated!

          • emospritelet says:

            I’m so happy that Belle is getting more screentime this season! I’m really looking forward to seeing more of her and Rumple

      • K says:

        That would be amazing! Matt, have you heard any confirmation of whether or not Emilie’s pregnancy is being written in? It doesn’t seem to me that they can work it at all–but if Belle isn’t pregnant, why are they being so cagey about it?

      • Sophia says:

        Please i want this, if you get a photo of her that will be amazing i want photos of Emilie pregnant if not at least info about her adventure for this season its the only thing that makes me still happy about that show #Mytinybookishbravecup in an adventure

      • Naoyusimi says:

        Totally glad that Emilie is getting a Belle-centric in 5B. If you see her, tell her she has lots of fans wishing her and Eric well. Also that Rumbelle still has TONS of fans, despite the impression given by some of the vocal haters on this site. Always happy to see EdR and Robert act together. They are grace, talent, and chemistry, personified!

        • emospritelet says:

          Yes, do please tell her that we LOVE Belle and Rumple and we can’t wait to see them having scenes together in this arc! Rumbelle FTW!

          • betsypaige says:

            Ditto this! We love Emilie and Bobby – please tell her that – and we’ve hung in patiently because we love them and we love Rumbelle!

  36. Jbfrancis2000@yahoo.ca says:

    I love Belle. She deserves more screen time.

  37. Logan says:

    Wally West, Iris West and WestAllen = ❤
    Belle and Rumbelle = ❤

    I’m so excited to see more of these characters!

  38. Syd says:

    I hope Belle really will be “very involved” with this half-season. I’ve liked her character since her first appearance and keep hoping she’ll be given more to do and more interactions where she isn’t just serving as an extension of Rumple (though I adore that relationship!).

    Not sure how Rumple’s “darker than ever” though? With his shiny clean new heart and the Dark One mantle back on isn’t he technically less dark than he was when he was a brand new Dark One? Fingers crossed we get a reasonable and logical explanation for THAT complete 180 when the show returns.

    • Sophia says:

      This please. THIS.

    • Naoyusimi says:

      YAASSSSSSSS. I so agree. He’s hero!Dark One! This should be interesting. There had better be a logical explanation other than the lame and ringing-false, “that’s the man I am” (as he said to Emma in the midseason finale). I was so disappointed with that, as it made NO sense at all. I was ready to stop watching this show, since it’s so silly, but I’m not sure I can quit watching Robert Carlyle. That man can spin more than just straw into gold; he can turn Kitsowitz’ bull-::cough:: into gold.

    • zumpie says:

      His heart was merely reset, now it’s turning blacker every day all over again, that’s the point. He’s darker than ever because he has the powers and evil of ALL the DOs before him now, that point was made very clear in the 4A finale. When he also threatened to murder Emma.

      He won’t be a hero, the “not what it seems” will be involving closure regarding his victims in the UW

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        +100 TVLine Power User Points (no cash value)

        • crysania4 says:

          Matt, love you but PLEASE don’t play into this troll’s clutches.

          • karen says:

            I have to agree, all she does is follow people and hate on them giving her own head canon as fact and if you dont agree with her she mocks and bullies.

            She is wrong anyway on much of what she has said about Hook and RUmple. But instead of us being allowed to like Rumple and Rumbelle we get bullied for it. Adam even said that Rumple could not be defined as simply a villain or hero. They also said that Rumple’s is smarter and wiser now so that doesn’t mean he’s going to use the power and be darker..

            And who cares if he did.. the heroes acted like hypocrites. Deciding at the last minute not to kill the family of the woman you love doesn’t make you a hero. It just means that you are cleaning up your mess. And Emam sued Belle’s life are as threat as collateral against Rumple as if Hook’s life had more value than Belle’s. SO why does she get away with that as Hook will for trying to kill them, but Rumple is held accountable? really if the heroes can do those things and it get whitewashed than I dont blame Rumpel for taking the power back.

            But the sad thing is that trying to have a discussion , talk about our what we see in the show, because it is subjective, and just like what we like without being mocked and bullied can’t happen. Unless we are all aboard the Hook love ship and Rumple deserves to die boat then we’re wrong. And we get no defense from from the bullies, they get encouraged and if we cry foul we get in trouble

          • zumpie says:

            Wow. Utterly hilarious….however, what this seems to be is that it’s been confirmed I’m correct in my assessment, you Rumbellers are wrong (per usual, because you watch through shipper goggles), by someone who routinely talks with the show runners, writers and cast, has inside and advanced information and whose job it is to be better informed than the rest of us. And it’s made all of your completely frothing at the mouth.

            All I’ve done is reiterated precisely was clearly shown in canon and, sorry, for the overall arcs and outcome, I’ve been correct, because the show is pretty easy to predict and call. Individual paths and twists in getting there? Like everyone else, I get those wrong, but for the arc (like that Bagel would be The Big Death, CS would get together, Goldemorte would go darker, he’d fail in murdering Hook and obtaining unfettered power, he’d fail at turning Emma’s soul dark and he’d inevitably be unable to resist the lure of power, would only be minorly “heroic” and go back to being evil??? Called it all. And all of you were wrong).

            That said, I’m not sure who I follow around anywhere (seriously, had no idea I did so, thank you for apprising me of my activities), but you posting that indicates you follow me quite closely, which, whatever, creeper—-I came here to read spoilers, saw comments, responded and had it confirmed. Last I looked, I’m every bit as entitled to this as you are.

            Which, likewise, I “don’t allow you to like Kwumple”? Didn’t realize you needed my permission or felt you did—-because obviously, you’re free to like or dislike whatever character you so desire. Just don’t argue the show with fabrication and your fanfic. Beyond that if you like him, go for it!

            Lastly, to address Crysania: by “troll” I gather you mean I “made a far more effective argument, supported by canon facts and had it upheld by someone with far more knowledge, thus rendering you unable to effectively rebut anything, so you resorted to personal, juvenile insults because it really irritated you”, correct? :-)

          • Danen says:

            No, troll is someone like you there are a lot of people on tumblr. That you have harrased and can confirm this. What do you want here? Oh saint zumpie who saved us from having our “incorrect” opinions everytime we say we like Rumbelle. We like Rumple, we understad he is a villian and we like it (yeah shocking news).

          • zumpie says:

            Oh you mean as opposed to sending me anon hate on tumblr, catfishing an advice columnist about me (and my family), threatening my family and doxxing me? Yeah, interesting that, but I’m sure it’s totally okay for you guys to do all those things, cause hey, you guys didn’t get the story line you wanted (and won’t again, but that’s to come).

            Based on how you’re acting, I’m quite sure you were involved in all of this, as well….but, again, hypocrisy works for you, doesn’t it??

          • Danen says:

            No, I didnt do that, in my religion is forbidden to threat someone. I am not who you think I am. But if someone did that to you it doesnt give you the right to do it to another person. That doesnt erase all the Rumbellers you hace trolled and madera de el bad for liking it, so please shut up

          • zumpie says:

            Well since I’m pretty sure your religion also forbids false witness (which you’ve just done) and frowns upon judging others and personal attacks, I’d say you probably routinely violate the tenets of it, anyway. I’m, again, free to post as I wish here, just as you are, so I won’t shut up (though your personal attacks are wildly off topic).

            And I’ve never done anything like any of those. But you’ve outed yourself as a hypocrite, fabricator and liar, so why wouldn’t you just continue in that vein? Interesting how you seem to think those things ARE okay when directed towards me. I’m quite sure I’m dead on about who you are

          • Danen says:

            No, I am not what you acussed me here, yes I have evidence. You are getting me really bored talking in circles all the time. But keep trying

          • zumpie says:

            And here I thought you’d just be bored by how you’ve humiliated and embarrassed yourself, today. To say nothing of, again, God is most assuredly frowning at your conduct.

          • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

            ENOUGH. .

          • Danen says:

            You are right Matt I am sorry, its just that she is always attacking rumbellers. I am really, really, sorry.

          • zumpie says:

            I’m sorry, too, Matt, but in this case, she attacked me, personally, just as she’s continuing, even in her apology. But I agree, it’s gone way off-topic. And no, I did not attack anyone here today or ever.

          • Danen says:

            I am sorry zumpie, if you felt this way I am sorry, I felt the EXACT same way from your part, I am sorry. Be more comprehensive with those who dont think the same way as you.

          • Zumpie says:

            I appreciate your apology, but note, at no point did I personally insult you. Perhaps, again you should follow your own advice. However, I’m moving on

          • Zumpie says:

            Thanks for that, may I suggest you follow your own advice? Time to move on

          • Danen says:

            Of course, I will. Lets try to follow it both ;)

          • zumpie says:

            Agreed. And sorry about the double post, Been doing this partially on my phone!

          • karen says:

            danen.. I agree. we all look at the show and have a different pov on characters, etc. That doesn’t mean we are wrong , or making up head canon. It’s a fact that A/E said before that Rumpel’s motivation was always love, not power. That he was a good man before the curse. That he he had done terrible things, but that doesn’t mean he’s just the bad guy.

            I have never seen a Rumple fan whitewash his acts, etc try and understand and hope that he’ll change. the show has also made a ton of plot , and continuity errors when it comes to Rumple. We know for a canon fact that he has been selfless 3.11 being the only villain to actually sacrifice himself , not trying to clean up his own mess or claiming to be a hero for cleaning up said mess.

            S4 was a mess, as was 5a.. the outcry from Sq even made Adam take to twitter.. . But I always see Hook getting whitewashed..

            Nowhere was it said Hook’s victims were bad pirates when he talked about his trophy collection he said that he killed for minor offenses. And it doesn’t matter it shouldn’t justify murder. But we see everything Hook does getting twisted by fans as to how it was heroic and he wasn’t a bad guy. Hook even admitted it. We dont justify Milah’s death when we know she was cruel.

            ANd it’s sad that we came here to say how happy we were for the Belle info and the Rumbelle hope.. and we get attacked for it. We are allowed to have our favorites, it’s not another person’s job to “educate us” on how we are wrong for liking who we like. AS for anon hate on tumblr.. I’ve never sent any, but I sure as hell received a lot from a certain group that has been known to go around and hate people for what they like. I’ve seen meta’s from my friends get copied and mocked on certain people’s tumblrs and them calling fans names over a tv show. This is silly. we should be allowed to thank Matt for the info, have a nice discussion about the show, have the moderator be neutral and not get bullied. This is why so many have turned away from the show. It lost it’s direction, it’s no longer fun, and it stopped making the characters complex.. They are all one dimensional with the heroes allowed to do terrible things and it’s still good and Rumpel not. BTW, I dont think Rumple should get away with it either. i just don’t like that if Emma, SNowing, or Hook does it out fo love it’s ok, but when Rumpel does it’s not.

          • Danen says:

            Yep, you put in words what I cant say. Thank you

        • Naoyusimi says:

          Wow, way to maintain some objectivity, Matt. If you buy into Zumpie’s simplistic reading of the episodic material, I’m not sure what I can say in reply. However, there’s absolutely no proof that he’s “darker than ever, even though he has all the powers of the previous Dark Ones (which makes precious little sense, because that’s what I had assumed they each had). If he was so EEEEVIL, he would have waved a hand and said “Screw you” to Emma’s blackmail. He’d never have helped open the portal with his blood.

          Some people are never going to remember or recognize the wonderful shades of gray this show started out with in their characterization. When it comes to Rumpelstiltskin, they’re going to ignore all of the good and stick with the mustache-twirling villain the show has attempted, at times, to make him. Sad.

          • crysania4 says:

            Not to mention he wouldn’t have intended to hide the fact that he took on the Dark One powers again from them. If he was going to run around and be the big bad evil one that people like Zumpie think he is, then why hide it? It sounds like he wasn’t even intending to do magic at all, because as soon as he did, they’d all know what happened.

          • zumpie says:

            Hahahaha!!! Riiiggghhttttt……(and for the record, I normally view that as a weak debating technique, but seriously, that WAS hilarious)……because never, EVER before has this show had a villain with a hidden agenda, who concealed their true nature and behavior, let alone Goldemorte being secretive. To say nothing of, if they knew he had taken the power, they would’ve immediately started looking for a way to take it from him/make him take them to the UW, etc.

            Plus, of course, 10 seconds later Belle came back and SparkleKreeper’s FULLY aware that Belle will leave him the second she learns the truth.

            To say nothing of, he doesn’t need to be planning anything evil to be evil and taking the curse back (as he would know better than anyone) will make you do evil things and turn you into your worst self. Plus, having the darkness exist again, versus vanquished (as Hook had sacrificed himself for) automatically puts everyone in danger and jeopardy, because evil and its corruption still exists.

          • Zumpie says:

            Yes, cause Matt totally doesn’t have inside info and A&E have never, ever confirmed all of this both in canon and interviews.

            The show isn’t terribly deep or complex, but hey if you twist it enough, it’ll still fit your fanfic, Amirite? Meanwhile, I can’t wait for when the show starts again, I’m proven correct and you guys return to raging about being “lied to/betrayed/OOC” because you deluded yourselves. Just like we’ve seen since 3A

          • Naoyusimi says:

            He confirmed those are his words, and it’s nothing to do with the creators. The show used to be complex, but they have gone for a black-and-white view in recent times, especially since the start of season 4, probably to coincide with their pulling more young viewers with their Frozen arc. My views have nothing to do with fanfiction, but the canon of the show, taken as a whole. All of it. I didn’t skip all of seasons 1 through 3. I’m not sure what you’re referring to with 3A, but the show was still believable and thoroughly gray-shaded in its cast of characters, back then. I’m amongst those who think they wrote the end of the show with “Going Home” and then went, “Oops, we didn’t get canceled, did we?” They’ve struggled to come back from that episode, ever since. I wish it could reclaim its glory, I really do.

          • zumpie says:

            Actually he hedged and, again, it was in canon, on the show. Plus, he actually knows and speaks to A&E on a regular basis, while you’re an anonymous fangirl who just freely admitted to sometimes being unable to follow the show, getting confused by it and being wrong. But obviously that makes YOU the knowledgeable expert, versus the guy who’s paid to have more info than we do.

          • Naoyusimi says:

            Freely admitted to whaaa? “Unable to follow the show”? This is laughable. No, really. I am not having any issues following the show. In fact, responding to you earlier, I cited numerous things in CANON that disputed what you said. I corrected you in 6 or 7 different points. The spin you’re attempting is incredible. Your tactics are offensive. Why don’t you let people like this character? If the creators can be believed, Rumpelstiltskin’s more honorable than you describe. I can quote Kitsowitz on it.

          • zumpie says:

            Actually, your painfully wordy posts, ignored half of what happened and were your wishful thinking. E.G. in the AU, yes SparkleKreeper wanted to be a hero, but one with magic and power who oppressed and made miserable everyone he viewed as having wronged him—while keeping Belle memory-wiped and compliant. That isn’t a hero, that’s being a rapist and robbing others (again) of their agency. Because if all he wanted was to be good and be with Belle, well he could’ve had that at any point, but he chose otherwise.

            And you stated you weren’t sure if 3A might not’ve been the series end….I never thought that for a second, because it was quite obvious it wouldn’t be.

          • Naoyusimi says:

            I’m sorry that your comprehension is down to Tweet-length. Correcting your misreading is what’s lengthy and painful. I NEVER said I wasn’t sure that 3A might be the series end. Looking back, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

            Again, you are wrong about the AU. The creators said so. Isaac wrote the AU. The input we saw onscreen was about Baelfire and being someone he’d be proud of. He never said that he wanted Belle. Everyone, including him, was “memory-wiped”! The topsy-turvy world of the AU was Isaac’s baby. That’s what Isaac said he wanted, before, during, and afterward. This was confirmed offscreen by Adam and Eddie.

          • Danen says:

            Again her interpretation is the correct one it looks like she is the writer and knows everything, and understand canon perfectly. Wow.

          • zumpie says:

            Never claimed that. Just that you guys are generally way far off in your calls (per canon, basic narrative 101 and common sense), have been proven wrong countless times and for the overall arc, I’ve generally called things pretty consistently.

            Oh AND…someone who IS closer to the writers than any of us, confirmed that I’m right and you’re wrong, earlier. But hey, either way, when Rumbelle breaks up (cause they will) and CS is endgame, I’ll come back and you can admit defeat! Though the time I did that before, the naysayer just whined about how dare I “I told you so”….cause sore loser, I guess!

          • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

            Thia conversation is over. Move on thank you. .

          • Danen says:

            You are again talking in circles! Hahahaha you are funny.

          • emospritelet says:

            So apparently we Rumbellers are twisting the show to fit our fanfic? Believe me, if the show fitted my fanfic, I’d be all kinds of happy. Robert Carlyle would spend a lot of time naked and the poster boy for rape culture would be killed and eaten by Colonel Ives

          • Naoyusimi says:

            I need to get my popcorn all set up and ready, so I can read this. Colonel Ives killing and eating a certain pirate? Bring it on, garcon! Bwahahahahaaa!

          • Zumpie says:

            Yes well aware you want and expect it to fit your head canons, it’s why so many of you no longer watch (but still obsess) and/or wail about “betrayal”.

            Likewise, I can’t wait (again) for when you’re wrong (again). Or have you already forgotten about how much that’s happened already?

        • K says:

          Really? It’s interesting that A&E confirmed that Rumple’s heart is going to blacken every day, because to be honest I was convinced that plot point would never be revisited.

          But I don’t see how Rumple “getting closure” in the Underworld is unexpected. Of course, A&E think a lot of things are “unexpected” and fantastically original that the fandom had covered long ago.

        • betsypaige says:

          I don’t think this is true at all……..Nothing was ever said about his heart blackening again (it’s white right now and Rumple would have to do bad things for his heart to darken again and that’s IF he’s not using magic on it like he did before. I guess you’ve sided with this troll, but I think you’re going to be very disappointed if you think Rumple is (A) going all 4A again and (b) that he’s not going to be a hero.

  39. karen says:

    I really am hopeful for Belle’s story this year. I hope her story runs into Rumple’s arc and that we get a lot of good Rumbelle moments. Like previous seasons when they were a strong couple. I miss that and hope to see no more separations, and no more backsliding. They are far the most interesting couple imo.

    • karen says:

      I was going to add that I hoep A/E keep their promise that Rumple’s motivations are not what they seem. that he’s smarter now. I loved it when he wasn’t quite the villain just a pain in the ass. Adam did tweet earlier this year that Rumple is too complex to be simply categorized as either a hero or villain so I’m hanging on that for a great arc for him, Belle and for Rumbelle to not always be separated

  40. I can’t wait to see more of Belle on Once Upon a Time! She is by far my favorite character. Like many before me I’ve often given up on watching this show because they hardly do her character justice, but here’s to hoping the writers get their act together and give her some decent character development for a change! Seeing her shine in an episode is a nice alternative for those of us that are a little bit tired of Once Upon a Hook.

  41. crysania4 says:

    Thanks for getting some scoop on Belle, Matt! She’s one of my favorite characters and I LOVE her and Rumple together. I’m not so found of A&E saying he’s “darker than ever” but then again, they said that about the Neverland arc and it turned out that he was just wandering around the island, having conversations with a figment of his imagination and dealing with his daddy issues. So I guess that remains to be seen! Hopefully they’ll do right by them this half season, though I’m having my doubts. But I appreciate the scoop anyway! I’m so glad Belle is going to play some important role in this arc. I was afraid she was being left behind again.

    • betsypaige says:

      That was Matt actually, but I’m pretty sure he was just referring to the fact that Rumple is the ultimate Dark One. Based on spoilers (and based, admittedly on my personal faith in him), Rumple’s beautiful 5A arc will continue.

      • K says:

        Maybe Matt will clarify if that phrase is his or comes from Adam? A&E swing back and forth on what they say about Rumple so it’s hard to tell.

        • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

          He has the darkness of every Dark One in him now; I’d say it’s a no-brainer. (But yes, “my words” if we’re playing that game.)

          • Crysania says:

            Well, to be fair we don’t ultimately know what having all of that means (and it makes no sense — they were all under the same curse). And we did that that little hint from Merlin about someone being able to take on the darkness and control it instead of being controlled by it (or something like that — I’d have to go back and rewatch the episode). I hope they’re going that route because otherwise it is some of the worst writing they’ve had to date.

          • K says:

            The weirdness is that the entire point of all the Dark Ones living in the current one’s head was that the current DO had “all the darkness” in him/her.

          • betsypaige says:

            Well it’s not really a no-brainer because while he has all the Dark Ones in him, it doesn’t mean he’s going to behave that way. Spoilers indicate that he won’t – that, in fact, he’ll have grown wiser after all he’s been through. I think his arc will be far closer to 5A than 4A.

          • zumpie says:

            What spoilers are these? I haven’t seen anything along those lines. But we do know he already threatened (and was clearly poised to carry it out) to murder Emma. And seemed quite excited when he announced he now had all their power, as he shrugged off “it’s who I am”. Based on how they’ve evolved in the past and that he made the very wrong choice (and is now fully influenced by all that evil), I can’t see him becoming nicer because of it.

            But please share the exact specific spoilers that you have

          • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

            Well, if you already know what’s coming up, I will refrain from answering any more Belle / Rumple / Rumbelle Qs. . Easy solution. Thanks.

          • crysania4 says:

            Wow Matt. I’ve always enjoyed your articles and spoilers here, but what is with this attitude? This is just rude.

          • Nikki says:

            Matt, THANK YOU for getting us some scoop about Belle! I mean no offense to anyone here (because I know things can get quite heated in this fandom), but I appreciate you offering some info to an otherwise volatile (yes, I said volatile) community, represented by a small handful of people. Truly.

          • Sophia says:

            Thank you Nicky. And I’m sorry too, Matt. The people here lose their heads about it and forgot that this its your place. I hope that you still consider us from time to time.

  42. Lindsey says:

    I really hope Belle gets more screen time on OUAT soon! I love the character.

  43. TG says:

    Matt, thanks so much for asking a question about Belle to Adam & Eddy. She is my joint fave character on ‘Once Upon A Time’ and happy to see a question about her. We need more info and questions about Belle, she is great and Rumbelle are my fave couple too.

    Belle and Rumbelle rock!, so many thanks for that Matt :D and I hope we get more questions in the future about Belle and also I hope we see more of Belle in the 2nd half of the season :)

  44. Lizzie says:

    I can’t wait to see Belle on Once! I’m so psyched that they’re finally giving her a bigger role. I’m a little miffed that they’ve gone back to the “Rumple is Dark” thing (what is this, the fifth time?) but I’m hoping it all turns out differently.

  45. partisan says:

    Kate was [considered as the focus], but we took a lot of runs at this until we found the right configuration.

    In other words, “We just can’t figure out how to write a macho show with a female lead”.
    Bad move.
    I’m out.

  46. TinLV says:

    This new incarnation of “24” sounds boring. No Jack, no Chloe, no Kate; perhaps a mention or two of past characters. Not worth my time.

  47. Beth says:

    So excited for Belle and once upon a time! Yes please let belle be part of the action this arc. Love her so much!

  48. Britt says:

    I’m so excited to see what happens with Belle this season. I love her character and Emilie does a great job with what she’s given now. I can’t wait to see more.

  49. Capri says:

    Nice to see that Belle is still going to be around this season. She and Rumple have had their challenges, and I’m looking forward to see how they can finally fix their relationship and just seeing them grow together like we’ve seen in the past.

  50. Charmedrumbelle says:

    If comments are monitored then why are you permitting an abusive troll like zumpie to spew hate on your page? She stalks and harasses fans of Rumbelle, Swanfire and Swan Queen DAILY without provocation and I can provide HUNDREDS of links proving this if you want to see documentation. And so can many others.

    Shame on you for allowing her abusive rampages to spill into your forum.

    • Zumpie says:

      Funny, I thought Matt already said “enough”. Also by “hate” you mean “non-goldemorte positive”, right? Cause all the comtinuing hate I’m seeing is from you

    • betsypaige says:

      Maybe because he agrees with her? Matt’s the best reporter out there, but I don’t agree with his take on Rumple for 5A at all.

      • betsypaige says:

        Holy cow. I make ONE comment about spoilers (from Adam and Eddy) saying that Rumple wouldn’t be truly Dark again and Matt reacts by saying he’s never going to answer Rumbelle/Belle/Rumple questions again? After allowing Z to get away with her …trolling?

    • Naoyusimi says:

      From what I’ve seen, it’s because the journalist agrees with her. No wonder Rumbellers I know advised avoiding this site.

      • betsypaige says:

        Now because I referenced spoilers from Adam and Eddy that indicate Rumple won’t be going DARK, he’s going to punish Rumbelle/Belle/Rumple fans?

        • karen says:

          I remember Adam saying that Rumple was not simply defined. I also recall Eddy saying that Rumple is wiser and smarter now about taking the curse back. I also recall A/E mentioning there was more to the reasons behind why Rumple took the curse back. And Adam did say that it wouldn’t be a repeat of S4 fiasco with RUmple ultra dark.. so I don’t know. I guess we’re suppose to hate Rumple and think the worst and have no hope for Rumbelle.
          But still my whole point is that we should be able to come here and be glad for the info we got talk about our favorites w/o being told we are wrong for our views. We can’t go anywhere to enjoy a good conversation about the show, or Rumple and Belle without getting attacked.

          • zumpie says:

            No one said you weren’t allowed to enjoy anything—you interpret it that way when someone posts a differing opinion and supports that opinion. This isn’t your private Rumbeller (or even OUaT) Clubhouse, it’s a public board….and if you do want an exclusively Rumbelle conversation, that’s what private chatrooms are for—not the public comments of an article.

          • karen says:

            But that’s the point.. what you say supports your opinion is not more canon than what I have that supports my opinion. Plus when I see you gush over Hook and state things that I don’t agree with and have canon proof of the opposite I dont feel the need to go in to your comments and correct you and also call Hook names while I do. Or mock you that you’ll grovel when I get proven correct. I don’t understand why there can’t be a constructive conversation without telling someone else they are wrong or mock them for their opinion. What you interpret and what I interpret are subjective.

          • Zumpie says:

            Oh except you and your friends did and personally insulted me. First. Which begs the question why 1 standard for you, but another for others. But again trying to move on, as Matt asked us to do

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        Please. I didn’t “agree” with whomever. I acknowledged that this — “He’s darker than ever because he has the powers and evil of ALL the DOs before him now” — sure sounds like a correct read on the situation.

        • betsypaige says:

          That’s fine if you agree with this person, Matt, but that doesn’t make her take right (and she’s a well known Rumple hater). Adam and Eddy have already said that he’s not going all 4A again – in fact, he’s going to be different. It’s also one thing to agree with her and another to get so upset at my referencing other spoilers (Adam and Eddy) that you now won’t ask anything about Rumbelle/Belle/Rumple. That’s your prerogative – we’ll just have to get our info elsewhere – but it just seems unfair that this person gets to say whatever she wants to, essentially attacks every positive Rumbelle post, and yet Rumbellers are shut down for no reason other than that we disagree.

          • Angela says:

            Speaking as someone who has no dog in the “Once” fight since I don’t watch that show, here’s my question: Why are ANY of you dragging personal drama with fellow fans into this whole conversation in the first place? It’s fine to have a debate about the actual show itself, and I know that some shows in particular will get a comparatively large amount of comments and discussion about them in these kinds of articles.
            But the rest of us who aren’t in this fandom have absolutely no desire to wade through endless posts of personal drama and insults that have no relevance to the show in the hopes that maybe we’ll find someone else willing to discuss the shows we’re here to talk about. I’ve seen other fandoms bring their personal dramas between fans into these discussions and I will never understand why that is. I guarantee you nobody who’s in that fandom cares about why you (general “you”) don’t like this user or that user. Either hash this stuff out somewhere else, or drop it and let it go, like Matt initially suggested.