Post Mortems
Arrow Season 4 Olicity Break-up

Arrow Boss Talks Felicity's Fate, That Future Bombshell and Darhk's New Foe

This Wednesday on The CW’s Arrow, we not only learned of Felicity’s post-gunshot fate, we also were able to rule out one possibility for the Mystery Grave. The latest flash-forward, however, dropped a whole other bombshell on us.

Because although it has now been revealed that Felicity is very much alive four months down the road, it appears her engagement to Oliver may be pushing up daisies, judging by her bare ring finger.

Here, executive producer Wendy Mericle fields some of our burning questions about limousine tension, the cursed “him” and more midseason premiere topics.

TVLINE | As hinted, we got a new flash-forward. Now, I know you didn’t know at the beginning of the season, but do you know now who’s in the grave?
I would say that we have a pretty good idea, but that episode is not written yet. We always leave things open to change, but yeah. I think we have a pretty good idea.

TVLINE | Can you at least confirm that the “him” that everybody keeps referring to with gritted teeth in the flash-forwards is Damien Darhk? Or is that another of the mysteries?
No. I can’t confirm that, actually. That’s another mystery I’m going to leave to be unfolded at a later date.

arrow-felicity-oliver-breakupTVLINE | Did I sense some tension in the limo there, between Oliver and Felicity? Are things maybe not going well for them four months down the road?
I definitely think there is some tension and we’re actually very intrigued to see if fans pick up on a very big clue about where they are at that point in their relationship. It’s in the scene, and it’s a visual clue. [Spoiler alert: Someone’s ring finger is bare!]

TVLINE | Are you going to revisit the William/Sandra storyline any time soon?
I cannot tell you anything about that.

TVLINE | What was Emily Bett Rickards’ reaction to the paralysis storyline when she learned about it?
She was intrigued, and she was totally game. She was excited because it’s a new challenge, obviously, to be dealing with this kind of permanent disability.arrow-felicity-paralyzed I think most actors get excited about any sort of real “left turn” like that, and she was no exception.

TVLINE | It has to be a bit scary for an actor, though. Because for one, you want to do it justice. You want to properly depict the experience. But also, on such an action-heavy show, you almost hate for that agility to be taken from your character.
It’s true, and we’ve had discussions about that, obviously, just to talk about it and see where the character is going. We definitely do want to do it justice and we do want to be very sensitive to the reality of people in that situation.

TVLINE | Was Anarky introduced at the start of the season for the purpose of later serving this week’s story point — rooting out Darhk and setting Oliver up to save his enemy’s family — or did it just wonderfully work out that way?
We always had the intention, actually, of having Anarky be somebody that could come back in and out of our storylines. Not when we needed him to, but hopefully in a way that was organic and would most mess up our characters’ plans, and that’s really what happens in 410. He started out as one kind of villain and he’s gotten darker and more twisted in the aftermath of the events of 402, and now he is literally anarchy, whereas Damien and Oliver provide a counterbalance to each other in the traditional kind of good/evil paradigm. ArrowAnarky’s a wildcard that can come in and upend both of their plans with absolutely no remorse and no mercy, and we love that.

TVLINE | You didn’t have to have Anarky go after Damien’s family. You didn’t have to have Oliver save Damien’s family. What did you gain by having Oliver “earn” this few-week respite?
What we really wanted to do this season was follow a supervillain, Damien Darhk, from the beginning of the season and get more deeply into not just his psyche but what his life is day to day — and I think what we really like about having his family there is that it complicates things in a big way for Oliver. I mean, he’s bent on revenge based on what happened to his own family in [the fall finale], and yet, there he is saving Damien’s family. It creates a very interesting moral dilemma for him. He actually stayed on the ethical side, but it raises significant questions. To see Oliver actually make the decision not to go whole hog and take out everybody… we consider that growth for this character.

TVLINE | I kind of liked how, even though one might see Damien giving Oliver this “vacation from peril” as a tiny chink in his armor, his wife then shows up to make clear, no, this is in fact a ruthless power couple.
Exactly — and she’s the one who wouldn’t have shown him mercy had she had her way.

TVLINE | Apparently not!
She’s like, “No. You should have killed him. What were you doing out there?!”

TVLINE | So, how is Oliver going to use his “few weeks” off?
He’s going to have some Villains of the Week to deal with going forward, and he’s also going to be focused on helping Felicity. I mean, that relationship is key to him, it is key to his character this season, so he’s going to be there for her. He learned his lesson after 410.

TVLINE | Laurel, obviously, arrow-oliver-vs-laurelis not as “The end justifies the means” as Oliver is, as we saw in this episode. Will they continue to butt heads on this topic?
I think so. I mean, she has really come into her own as Black Canary, and we really like that she and Oliver are on a completely new footing this season. She’s become a superhero in her own right on the team, someone with an equal voice and someone with power — and Oliver respects her. She has the ability, just like Dig had in previous seasons, to really put the brakes on things and make him think about his decisions. We really love that dynamic.

TVLINE | What plans do you have for Laurel moving forward?
Oh, we have some big plans for her. She’s going to be key to taking on Darhk in a very kind of new and surprising way. We’re going to see her in a role we haven’t seen her in in a while and it’s really going to put a big crimp in Damien’s plans!

Want more scoop on Arrow, or for any other show? Email and your question may be answered via Matt’s Inside Line.

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Tara says:

    Thank you for asking about Laurel!! U promised and you’d delivered.

  2. Jess says:

    i think it’s Felicity’s mom. Anyways this was an interesting episode. I can’t wait to see how the rest of this season pans out.

    • Mohamed Dahcheh says:

      Nahhhh I don’t think so.

    • yeah seeing Felicity’s reaction, I think its also Felicity’s mom. oh and there was no ring on Felicity’s finger in the limo scene….
      oh and does Felicity’s paralysis mean that she will become Oracle in DCTV universe?

    • Phun says:

      Yeah, I think you’re right! It’s Felicity’s mom.

    • Amelia says:

      That’s what I’ve been thinking too. It’s one of the only reasons that makes sense that Barry would be at the funeral.

    • Gail says:

      From Felicity’s reaction you would think it was her mom but that doesn’t explain why Barry is there. He hasn’t met Felicity’s mom. Why would Felicity be in a car waiting if it was her mom. Wouldn’t she be in a wheel chair by the grave if she were the main mourner as she would be if it was her mother? If her mom is also Jewish, the gravestone would not be up yet. Really hard to say who is in the grave as I don’t want anyone off the show. Hope we find out in future flash forwards others who it is not before the big reveal. Maybe Oliver gets a faithful dog he dies saving him.

      • Corey says:

        It’s Diggle…

        • Chris says:

          I think so too. The teaser for next week shows him trapped and he’s one of the few characters that would cause an obviously on-the-out Felicity & Oliver to agree on vengeance.

          • Michelle says:

            I’m thinking Roy Harper.

          • Alex Jones says:

            the death is still 4 months away, I very much doubt anyone is dying next week.

          • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

            (Especially if producers are not locked into the victim yet, LOL)

          • John NYC says:

            Maybe the graves occupant will be chosen like on Mack & Cheese? Whichever actor annoys the writers like Joey did? That’s the one that gets it.

            Probably getting a lot of muffin baskets right about now. Can you get muffin baskets in Canada?

          • Mike says:

            Sorry Matt, but they’re holding out on you. If it’s not Felicity’s mother, then that reaction of hers in the limo is disingenuous. The pain in her eyes. I’m sorry, I won’t believe it if it’s not her mother.

      • Mike says:

        You’ve never gone to a friend’s family members funeral before? It’s a pretty common thing to do amongst good friends. Felicity and Barry are pretty close friends. Why wouldn’t he attend her mother’s funeral?

      • Pam Erwood says:

        The Son, explains the tension in the limo minus no ring. and the flash knew about the son

    • tvjunkie says:

      That is exactly why it’s not her mom. Do you really think that would make it so obvious? I think its a classic case of misdirection.

    • Cian roe says:

      Don’t ask me why I’m more inclined to think its diggle in that grave
      Just me though I think

  3. Jobless says:

    IMO, it’s pretty much down to Diggle or Felicity’s mom in the grave. Nobody else really makes any sense.

    • Grace says:

      totally agree. these two characters make the most sense. felicity’s mom especially, since that would explain her huge rise in screen time and importance this season.

      • Ray says:

        It makes the most sense by her reaction that It is Diggle or her mom. I’m starting to wonder if the “He” that they are talking about is Felicity’s dad. At the beginning of the season there were rumors of seeing him this season. That would be the best twist.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      That’s ironic, those were the two names I immediately thought it might be them, at the end of this episode.

    • John NYC says:

      Would either elicit that reaction from Barry though?

      • herman1959 says:

        Barry didn’t seem THAT upset to me.

        • Jumanji says:

          Honesty I have a feeling it’s going to be Oliver’s son William, that would explain why Felicity isn’t wearing a ring since she’ll have found out that Oliver lied to her and kept that from her. It also explains why she stayed in the limo, and gives Barry a reason to be there for Oliver. And the fact the William is a kid would explain why Oliver and Felicity both want someone dead.

          • Cat says:

            Oh I think his son William too!!! It explains everything!! And that would explain why he was at the grave after it was in the ground and no one there… And the grave spot looked small/shorter to me.

    • kitsunesaru says:

      I think it could still be Lance. Especially if him and Donna get even closer, loosing him would really hurt her and so Felicity would be ready for vengence for her mother being hurt. It’s a bit of a stretch compaired to Dig or Donna in the grave but possible I think.

    • Tyler426 says:

      captain lance makes sense to me. close to ollie and now being with her mom could become a father figure in a later episode

    • It could very well be Lance. Assuming the relationship between him and Felicity’s mother goes well, his death would be a gut-punch for Felicity four months down the road.

    • Kristyn says:

      I think those are the obvious choices and that’s why I don’t think it’s any of them. Maybe one of the Lances….

  4. Lizzie says:

    Not a good episode at all. Just shows how much Felicity adds to this show. She was barely in the episode and it was boring.

    Thrilled Felicity is alive in the flash forward. I know her ring finger was bare so they must break up at some point but I expected that because he never told her about his son.

    I’m really worried that Diggle is in the grave. I hope it’s Laurel though.

    • s4 has been boring at least this ep i didn’t want to throw something at my tv

      • Lizzie says:

        I think season 4 has been a solid season. Some episodes worse than others. But this episode was so boring. Felicity just adds something special. I can’t explain it.

        • 134sc says:

          I completely disagree. I loved this episode. Throwback to season 1 Oliver when he couldn’t rely on Felicity to figure everything out. I actually found that quite compelling. I like Felicity and all, but this was a nice change of pace.

          • Lizzie says:

            While I agree it’s nice to mix things up, the pacing was all off in this episode. I think Felicity grounds everything. It’s like none of the characters knew what the hell to do but maybe that was intentional.

  5. Julie says:

    “Laurel, obviously, is not as ‘The end justifies the means'”
    Unless when she’s the one making poor decisions. Then it’s okay.
    Pot mets kettle.

  6. Trish says:

    Such a powerful episode. I love the immeasurable love and support between Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. Tonight, that love shined through. Although, I’ll be really pissed off if they make Felicity’s paralysis permanent. Especially considering they aren’t doing an Oracle storyline for her and she already remains the only un-masked hero on the show. I’m going to have to call foul on that one. Especially considering this is a show that introduced magic, insta healing, is digging up year old corpses, time travel, and dipping people in magical healing waters when they want. Seems like a way to sideline her to me. We’ll see. But I love seeing this pic of Oliver and Felicity. The missing ring, the distance between them, yet she’s still there with him…it’s clear she knows. I’m so excited to see how that plays out. But above all else, I’m really excited to see Felicity Smoak’s story arc kick off.

    • Lizzie says:

      THIS. This is my fear about Felicity’s storyline. I feel like it’s a way to sideline her for other characters and that’s just not fair, especially as she’s the only one who doesn’t wear a mask.

    • keith says:

      Im expecting palmer to return with some nano tech to heal felicity

      • herman1959 says:

        I like that idea, but it’s already been announced that the Legends characters won’t show up on Flash/Arrow anytime soon. No to worry, nothing has to be permanent on Arrow.

    • Gail says:

      You have Ray Palmer’s nano thingies which seem to cure anything. You have the Legends of Tomorrow time travel. They could ether stop the attack that paralyzed Felicity or bring back a cure from the future. You have Barry Allen’s super healing ability. Maybe he gives her a blood transfusion which temporarily gives her body a chance to heal. You have Downton Abby’s Mathew solution , “Oh we made a mistake, it was just a big bruise .
      There are many ways to cure Felicity if they choose to do so.”

    • Ben says:

      I would also be disappointed if Felicity’s paralysis is permanent.

    • Kristyn says:

      I’m expecting Curtis/Mr. Terrific to be the one to create something that is going to save Palmer Tech and be used to make Felicity walk again.

  7. Shunda1177 says:

    SO glad its not Felicity but now I’m REALLY worried that its Diggle…

    • Shunda1177 says:

      Can you at least confirm that the “him” that everybody keeps referring to with gritted teeth in the flash-forwards is Damien Darhk? Or is that another of the mysteries?
      –No. I can’t confirm that, actually. That’s another mystery I’m going to leave to be unfolded at a later date.
      What if the “him” is Malcolm Merlyn?!

      • Far says:

        as they explicitly avoid to say Damien Darkh, I really don’t think it’s him. but who would Merlyn kill and why?

      • Pearlie Benson says:

        What if it is Diggle, and somehow his brother, Andy is the one who is responsible for Diggle’s downfall ? It’s just a thought. OMGoodness, this show !!!! On another note. Could the tattoo that Constantine magically placed on Oliver’s body be a key to defeating Damien Darhk ?

    • Corey says:

      I think I have seen Diggle in another tv show recently…. so I would worry.

      • Lizzie says:

        I’m worried it’s Diggle too (and I hope it isn’t because he’s awesome) but David Ramsey has always been in another show, even while filming Arrow. He plays the mayor on Blue Bloods.

        • yes. But David has been playing the Mayor for the last 5yrs on Blue Bloods, he only guest stars on a couple of them every season. bc last time I checked, the Mayor Is still in a wheelchair. which IS why Diggle finally got a code-name, as The Guardian. Why just give him1 this season and a helmet to go with it. If you’re planning to put David’s character who has been a regular on Arrow since S1, and hasn’t left since. For someone like David, who has been on this show for 4yrs and counting. I don’t think anyone would be letting Diggle go, anytime soon, he just became a father, and still a newly-wed husband, not to mention, he just found out his presumed-dead brother is still alive, and was never killed by Deadshot. Dig&Olly just became friends again after the AlSaHim fiasco when Olly took Lyla hostage. They just made up. Why would it be Diggle, if he hasn’t broken Andy out of Darkh’s hold on his brother. That would be the only thing left for it to be John, if after Andy comes back to the light at the last minute, thinking he’d let his big brother die, or even have Darkh kill Carly&AJ for that matter. I still have hope, that Andy IS still in there, bc if IS Diggle and Andy did set his brother up, even getting his wife&son killed in the process. Would John Diggle risk losing his entire family, if it was Diggle in that grave?! YES!!! I think, he would die for his family, before any of them get hurt. But, I still don’t think it’s Diggle. My money’s still on William’s mother, instead.

  8. Michael A. says:

    I will say that it’s Diggle, mainly because had it been anyone else, he would be the first person at his side, even after Barry comes and goes.

    • herman1959 says:

      True, but if we go that way Diggle would have to be only pretending to be dead. They wouldn’t kill of Oliver’s moral compass. But, it’s been said that the death is real, so…not Diggle.

    • AwH says:

      Barry is at his side so they can leave the “who” open. This way it can be anybody in the grave. The one person it cannot be is Barry, because he’s not theirs to kill off. ;)

  9. wonderwall says:

    This episode was eye opening for me. I definitely wouldn’t have stayed with the show if it wasn’t for Felicity and what she brought to the show. I sorely missed her the entire episode and what little moments she had, she shined in. Felicity/OTA/Olicity make the show for me. Everything else is just details. I think that’s why this episode overall was sort of underwhelming except for the last 2 minutes which, WOW TALK ABOUT A TOTAL SWERVE!

  10. dan says:

    Diggle is in the grave and it’s Andy that Felicity wants dead. Her Not-Oracle days will be short lived as Palmer nanotech will come to the rescue. Laurel will become a major thorn in Darkh’s side as a function of her DA job. Ra’s will come back from the dead to save the day last second when he and Speedy tag team Darkh to end his reign of terror. Diggle will be brought back through some timey wimey jiggerypokery and it will be a snatch job so he knows eventually they will have to drop him back in his own time stream to meet his appointed hour of death which will be understandably a bit awkward. Heard it here 1st!

  11. GirlvsTV says:

    I was surprisingly bored during this episode. I don’t know, something just wasn’t clicking. I’m so sick of hearing/reading about the grave stuff. I never thought it would be Felicity, and seriously doubt it would be Digg unless the actor wanted out of the show for some reason.


    Also, I hope Felicity throws that ring back in Oliver’s face and takes his eye out with it. They’ve ruined his character for me after his behavior tonight and that dumb Baby Mama / Secret Kid stuff. I don’t care if he was sad or struggling or whatever, Felicity needed him and he wasn’t there. And then when he actually showed up, SHE had to give HIM a pep talk?! Whatever, Laurel can have his dumb self. Felicity Smoak deserves way, way better.


    I have a bad feeling we’re about to settle in for another misery fest like last year and I’m not here for that.

    • amb1973 says:

      Oliver’s the worst fiancé ever.

      • John NYC says:

        Just because he didn’t spring for the armored limo or some security knowing Darhk was hunting them and so Felicity is paralyzed?

        Hey at least he’s not (yet) banged her sister and the kid is such a small detail, though he’s getting bigger.

        • amb1973 says:

          Thank god she doesn’t HAVE a sister. (I was mostly referring to the lying about the kid and abandoning her in the hospital. Yes, it’s consistent, but I am long past excusing his crap behavior just because it’s consistently crap.)

  12. James D says:

    Arg! that is all I can say at this point. really is a shame I used to eagerly await watching this show now it has become a chore. as for the grave it has to be either Diggle or Felicity’s mom right? it seems to fit the mood of the limo scene.

  13. Kevin W. says:

    Well Ollie & Felicity are on the rocks at that funeral(no ring). The only person I could see her getting that angry over is Diggle or her mom.

  14. suebrody says:

    I liked the episode but I really missed Felicity. The Olicity scenes are my favorite ones. I find Laurel boring, though I really like Diggle and Thea. I think they will kill Damian at the end of the season and find a new villain.

  15. Shanw says:

    I think it’s Oliver’s son, I think that’s why it was so hard for them

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      I had that thought briefly, but if it was his son, where’s the mother? ..unless Darhk still has her. It’s an interesting theory becuz it would definitely explain Felicity’s empty ring finger. But I think Oliver would be more upset if it was his son, Felicity seemed more upset than anyone.

  16. Drew says:

    While the episode had some emotional push and urgency that hasn’t been on the show a lot lately, it still had a lot of weak points. Oliver and the team kept losing, over and over. It’s becoming a major theme of the series that they just keep getting their butts kicked. Oliver was doing better when it was just him, back in season 1. I want superheroes who can, from time to time, kick some a**.
    I like seeing Laurel stepping up and being a larger part of the team. What I’d really like to see if less clashing and drama between her and Oliver, and more friendship. It sounds stupid to want senseless scenes on a series, but it helps to make the connection between characters. Just show them hanging out or laughing or remembering the good old days. Show us what they mean to each other (not in a romantic way).
    I liked seeing Lyla again. But I don’t feel like the Andy resurrection has been justified. They spent years building Diggle’s story and the entire Deadshot character around the death of Andy. His return hasn’t been worth what we lost in genuine story. And I didn’t feel the sudden onset of humanity in him.
    Felicity… I need to be convinced that this whole thing will actually stick. Every time a TV character is paralyzed, it lasts about three weeks before their foot twitches, and a week after that, they’re walking around like nothing ever happened. (Same thing with brain injuries) If they really do this, it could be interesting. If they just undo it, why waste our time? When they had Oliver stabbed though the chest and thrown off of a cliff, it felt like a huge moment. Then they came back and it was brushed aside like it never happened. if they do that again, i will be pissed.

    • Josh says:

      I’d rather have Felicity walk again I’m already ticked off that so far death or serious injuries only happen to the non masks.

      • Drew says:

        Sara was a mask and she died. Does that still count? It has to at least count as serious injury. Same with Ray being incapacitated for many months. But I see what you mean… Oliver’s cliff dive last year should have been more of an issue than it was.
        But here’s the thing. The non-masks are the most vulnerable characters. Tommy and Moira were vulnerable because they weren’t a part of the fight, but they were a part of the scenery. Both of them ultimately knew what was going on, and neither one of them took the necessary steps to protect themselves or others. Their city is at war. It gets messy.
        But I would argue that Felicity is a mask. Her mask is the computer. She doesn’t fight like the others do, but she infiltrates and the takes people down. She fights in the only way that she can, and she hides behind the anonymity that a computer gives her. She is not a civilian casualty in this battle. She is a soldier.
        If they wanted her to walk again, they should have just badly injured her and required her to go through rehab. If they’re going to say that she will never walk again, i want them to be prepared to stand by it.

  17. Noel says:

    Felicity and Oliver better end up together. That ring better end up back on her finger!

      • Kori Johnson says:

        I second that! They have very good dynamics and balance eachother. I know he ends up with Laurel in the comics but so Felicity is better for him in the show.

    • Lizzie says:

      Agreed. It’s obvious they love each other so much. I want to see them last, even if I’m expecting a break-up at some point.

      • Steven M says:

        Oliver ends up with Laurel. It’s one of the only lasting relationships in DC Comics. They have a child together.

        • Joe says:

          I disagree


          • Anna says:

            Ahhh, it is a pet peeve of mine when people write this, go back and watch the final! The writers had to leave it ambiguous as dc wouldn’t (apparently) allow them to write green arrow with Chloe for definite. I loved green arrow and Chloe as well. Miss that green arrow portrayal so much when I am watching this one.

        • Lizzie says:

          No, they don’t. The comics change all the time and Oliver and Laurel get divorced at one point. They don’t even know each other in current DC canon. I wish people would stop relying on that as their source of debate.

          • Noel says:

            The show does not have to follow the comics in everything. That would be really boring. So in this version of the comic series Oliver ends up with Felicity. And second nothing against Katie Cassidy but there is no chemistry between Oliver and her Laurel, bit it is off the charts with Stephen and Emily!

        • Jen says:

          They got divorced. Not very lasting.

      • Elaine says:

        It absolutely must be Oliver and Felicity. Chemistry is unmistakable. Nothing there between Ollie and Laurel. No way to make that work.

    • Alley Oop says:

      I agree. Season 5 better bring them back together or unhappy fans will quit watching. CW going for the dramatic, but writers better have them back together

  18. jrex says:

    I don’t necessarily think Felicity unable to walk would sideline her since she is normally not involved in the action/fighting side of the stories, but if it’s not permanent and she has a miraculous cure (which happens often in comics, not to mention this show) it would seem like a cop-out. As for the lack of a ring I hope that is just another bump in the road of their relationship since many couples may breakup only to reconcile at a later time. She is one of the really original breakout characters on this show and Oliver needs her.

    • John NYC says:

      Not a cop out were it to be a part of her life for an extended period. Which I’d gather will be the case from the comments regarding being respectful of those in that situation.

  19. Ron says:

    Diggle that looks like a military cemetery

    • John NYC says:

      No, the headstones aren’t uniform in height. Look at the shadows. And they slow pan past a “Brie Thorpe” headstone that also didn’t look military. Just that name and a date, plus edge decoration.

      That said Felicity was really affected, that sort of cold rage limits the possibilities in my mind.

      • herman1959 says:

        “Cold rage”, yes, I would describe Oliver’s mood that way too, which is why I knew it wasn’t Felicity or Diggle in the grave. If it had been either of them, Oliver would have been more despondent.

        • AlleyOop says:

          Don’t think it’s Diggle cuz Oliver will need him when engagement ends due to Oliver’s son. Think it’s Felicitys mom, Donna, in grave. Probably gets in crossfire between Lance and Darhk

    • Pearlie Benson says:

      That’s what my nephew said when we were watching this episode last night.

  20. Can’t get much more soap opera than a paralysis storyline

    • John NYC says:

      Or a comic book.



    • Evan says:

      – Sleeping with your girlfriend’s sister.
      – Your Mom having an affair with your best friend’s father and conceiving your little sister.
      – Your Mom paying off your pregnant hookup to make you believe she had a miscarriage. And finding out about the kid years later.
      – Your brother coming back from the dead after you thought he was murder and finding out he was a crime lord.
      – One eyed dude you think you killed coming back for revenge because of a girl.
      – Sleeping with your father’s mistress.

      I could go on. Arrow is a soap opera (and so are most comic books) SURPRISE! Where have you been for four seasons?

    • herman1959 says:

      I know, I can’t believe they went there (even though, a lot of people called it).

  21. Kori says:

    I wasn’t digging the first half of this season and was thinking of bailing on the show. Tonight was a throwback to why Arrow was my number 1 show I looked forward to each week. I like the balance and hope this keeps up for the rest of the season. I really hope it’s not Diggle in the grave.

  22. Steven M says:

    So paralysis… Like Oracle… When will Bane show up and break his back… AKA will the writers ever begin to stop turning Oliver Queen into Bruce Wayne. I know the Green Arrow was modeled after Batman in the beginning of his comic but he did develop into his own. Any chance of that in the show?

    • David Brown says:

      They have already said she will not be Oracle at all. And I, for one, think her paralysis won’t last out the season.

      • Steven M says:

        Even if she isn’t Oracle you have to admit she is filling that role rather handsomely and it’s hard not to see the straight comparison that can be made to Batman and how much it has played out as such.

  23. So Felicity is plan B Oracle now so I’m assuming next seasons big bad to be The Joker

  24. Brad says:

    Imo I think the grave could be olivers son ? In the cross over oli and felicity broke up because of him not telling her before the flash went back in time ? So this could be the reason for there fall out ?

    • herman1959 says:

      Brad, this is where I have to get all dramatic and say: IF THEY KILL OFF OLIVER’S SON, I’M NOT WATCHING ANYMORE. But, his mother being killed would work.

  25. Bryan Ocampo says:

    Felicity is in the grave. Oliver fake her death to protect from Damien Darhk.

  26. Bobby Joe says:

    See what most people are not taking into account when trying to figure out who is in the grave or who Felicity is mad at is the “Legends of Tomorrow”. Vandal Savage being saved by Malcolm Merlyn could play very much into this. I’m guessing the “4 weeks from now” means 4 episodes from now, which would involve 3/4 possible episodes of Flash and/or Legends of Tomorrow tying into Arrow and into the possibilities of who is in that grave.

  27. peterwdawson says:

    This season could easily be nicknamed ‘glass houses’, given how much characters are calling each other out for going too far and such while being blind to their own actions. I get that it’s a struggle and people keep finding exceptions, but sometimes it seems like their moral lines are sketched in chalk.

  28. Mike says:

    Its Roy in the grave

  29. Charles says:

    I can’t believe that people have not strongly considered Diggle’s wife to be the person in the grave.

  30. Katie says:


  31. Dude says:

    Diggle is trying to rehab his brother, but what if it works to the opposite, and Andy turns Diggle? Diggle then kills Thea at Darhk’s order because she is immune to his voodoo. This would be the ultimate twist, and would explain a lot of the secrecy and emotions of the actors. I mean, we all know that Oliver wants Dahrk dead, yet his “I’m going to kill him” line, and Felicity’s assertion to kill “him” seem to get more focus than who is in the grave. Wanting Darhk’s dead is no surprise, but Diggle? That’s a huge shock. Kind of like a Grant Ward twist on Agents of Shield.

  32. Pat says:

    Awesome episode. My guess by Felicity’s reaction in the limo is definitely pushing me in the direction of her Mother’s in that grave. How in the heck are they going to kill Damien Darhk??? He seems like a Teflon Damien and I am perplexed by how they will be able to do this. I always thought that it would be up to Thea and with the help of Sarah since there seems to be some kind of immunity for them because of the pit. Unfortunately, Sarah is not around so maybe it will have to be Thea going it alone.

  33. peter says:

    the episode was great as for olicity fans the most important thing for me about the FF is the oliver and felicity are together in the limo not in the best of terms but together

  34. Iceman71 says:

    It’s going to be Roy Harper.. Talk of colton Haynes making a special appearance

  35. Mary-Ann says:

    I think its Oliver’s son in the grave

  36. Far says:

    even if Oliver and Felicity break up – and apparently they do – at least Felicity won’t die. never assumed it was her anyway, but nice to have the confirmation. it really should be Laurel. bad actress, annoying character, serves no purpose at all and drags the show down. if the writers are smart, Laurel has to die and stay dead. but unfortunatly I think others are more likely. Diggle I’m afraid. it would make sense that both Oliver and Felicity are devasteted (unlike Laurel, neither really likes her) and the story with Andy could be a closer for Diggle’s character. And wouldn’t it be a great twist if the “he” is Andy who turns out to be the big man behind Darkh?

  37. My money is on Thea now. I bet she’s going to bite it

  38. mike says:

    Its gotta be Felicitys mom. I was going to go with Det Lance, but after this scene, it can only be her.

    I also really hope the ring is just misplaced, because I swear if they start doing the will they/wont they nonsense with these two, i’m out. Well..not out cause I enjoy the show, but I will seriously lose any interest in the soap opera aspects.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      As Mericle makes clear, the clue is there to reveal status of Oliver/Felicity relationship in the future.

  39. Gwen says:

    Thanks, Matt! You always ask the questions I want to ask.

  40. D. says:

    I think they want us to think it’s Felicity’s mom, but it could still be Lance or someone else. Maybe Lance and Donna’s love story will progress and Felicty will be pissed because of her mother’s pain over Lance’s death. Anyway, I’m starting to think that “him” it’s not even Dahrk but some other villain.

  41. Graham Smith says:

    not happy at all, its almost a soap opera now,It seems there is no such thing as a happy couple on TV anymore,not wearing the ring is so bad, and with the pain of that grave,and Felicity’s injury, where is the happiness going to come from.

  42. bos4ny3 says:

    “she has really come into her own as Black Canary”. LOL! Thanks. I needed that laugh to start my day!!

  43. Isabella says:

    I actually really liked this episode. Felicity lives and despite current status she will walk again. She’s the CEO of Palmer Tech so they own the nano technology that saved Ray. She understood why Olicity wasn’t there and that is their strength. Not worried that she wasn’t wearing the ring. So they will hit a rough spot, they still came to the funeral together. You don’t do that if you’re broken up. Since Oliver said that it wasn’t his fault I don’t think “him ” is DA. It’s more likely that it’s Andy for murdering Duffle. That would explain Barry’s presence and why Felicity is so upset.

    • amb1973 says:

      Of course they’d still go to the funeral together even broken up. It’s a funeral for someone they both care about. Plus the scene needed them in the same car. And they obviously are broken up, or she would be wearing her engagement ring, and they would have, you know, touched each other, instead of sitting as far apart as possible. Plus, one of the two showrunners said the lack of ring is representative of the state of their relationship, in other words, they are broken up.

      They’ll get back together, but during February sweeps she’s going to find out he’s been lying about having a kid and she’ll dump him. Which he will deserve. They will most likely get back together in the last episode, or sometime next season at the latest. I’m fine with them getting back together once he’s learned to treat the people he supposedly loves a whole heckuva lot better, instead of lying to them and abandoning them while they’re hospitalized bc he has to focus on his manbaby emotional pain instead of their actually-shot-multiple-times physical pain.

  44. Weezy says:

    I think it’s pretty obvious now that Felicity’s mom is the one in the grave after seeing the end of the episode flash forward…

  45. Tyler426 says:

    Okay since they said they cant confirm the who, what if its andy whos behind all of this. that would be a major plot twist and be a hint to who is in the grave. and i think katie was a good actor in season one. the story led her to not become a main role, i like her more than felcity for sure, in the comics ollie is with her anyways

  46. ray says:

    Its olivers son

  47. Dj says:

    Random thoughts. I thought Lance was in the grave at first, but now I dont. It’s either Diggle, Felicity mom or Thea. Also No ring and their body language things are not going well for Olicity. So she ends things after finding out about the son.

  48. Manuel says:

    I dont think its felicity’s mom cuz the captain wasnt there … And the flash didnt ke felicitys mom and he was there

  49. TG says:

    Oliver’s son is the reason Felicity isn’t wearing the ring. It is either the son or Diggle in the grave IMHO.

  50. Very excited about the story this introduces for Felicity Smoak. Emily Bett Rickards has definitely earned the right to see the show start exploring that. I’m ready to see Oliver be there for Felicity the way she’s been there for him for 4 years now. I’ll echo some of the side-eyeing going on below though. If they make this a permanent thing for Felicity I’ll be annoyed because it will be all about sidelining her from the action and that’s absolutely not acceptable to me as an agenda. So I’ll be waiting on the twist that comes for how they fix it.