Arrow Olicity Breakup

Arrow's Big, Improbable 'Olicity' Fight: 10 Ways It Hit Below the Belt

Amid the Hawk-this and Hawk-that of its second annual crossover with The Flash, The CW’s Arrow drummed up more down-to-earth drama by exploding the nascent romance between Oliver and Felicity.

For a short while, at least.

But when things got gnarly on a much larger scale — as Vandal Savage bested Arrow, The Flash, Hawkman and Hawkgirl and then obliterated Central City as a whole — the scarlet speedster’s flight from the fracas thrust Barry backward in time, to hours earlier.

That “second chance” afforded Teams Arrow and Flash the opportunity to outwit Savage in Round 2, as well as undid the Oliver/Felicity break-up. Or at least put it on hold, seeing as Oliver “again” is keeping the truth about William, his son via onetime fling Samantha, under wraps, if only so that he can discreetly bond with his boy.

I have four older sisters, and thus grew up watching soap operas after school (in part because back then, your typical family had only one TV set!). And I have covered soaps in-depth… for Soaps In Depth. So I can appreciate the power of a paternity twist, the narrative punch that a secret child can deliver. But Arrow, to spin its version of such a tale, simply asked viewers to swallow too, too many whoppers.

Here is the considerable sequence of improbable events that needed to fall in line perfectly during Part 2 of the crossover in order to fuel the furious fight between Oliver and Felicity:

“Really?” Factor: 1 (out of 10). She lives in Central City and obviously likes her Jitters java. No foul.

“Really?” Factor: 3. Oliver notes that Samantha’s son is about the right age to be his own, but doesn’t share that “Hmm…” moment with Felicity — nor need he at such an early stage, having zero proof.

“Really?” Factor: 6. Tracking down and confronting Samantha at her home, a happenstance dropping of the moppet’s hat gives Ollie the chance to pinch a piece of hair for testing. If there was no hat in play, what was Oliver’s next move?

“Really?” Factor: 7. The instant Oliver had the hair, I asked myself: But who will he have run a DNA test? Surely not Felicity. Instead, he entrusts it to perhaps the next-closest person to Felicity, rather than go to a well-removed third-party lab.

“Really?” Factor: 7. Bring them with to show Samantha? Nah! Leave them with Barry, to possibly be discovered by someone? Sure!

“Really?” Factor: 7. Arrow-felicity-dna-testYes, Felicity would care about what’s bothering her beau. But were we to infer she was tailing him? (She enters the CCPD lab declaring, “I’d like to know what’s going on here.”) And then leaning on good-natured Barry to betray a confidence? No.

“Really?” Factor: 9. Not only is The Fastest Man on Earth not quick enough to stealthily stash the paper, Barry proves to be the worst liar when failing to explain it away. (At that point, he caves and actually hands Felicity the results.)

“Really?” Factor: 10. Confronted with her cover-up, Samantha tells Oliver that he can bond with his boy — if he tells not one other person on this planet (or on Earth-Two, she would probably add, if she knew of Earth-Two) about his kid. He cannot even confide in the love of his life, because… well, we’re still fuzzy on Sam’s reasoning. Reallllly fuzzy.

“Really?” Factor: 9. I’m a dad, so I can understand the want to know your offspring. Totally. But a man who cheats death on a daily basis and has gone up against all manner of brutal foe would have stood his ground and held out for a sweeter (meaning: reasonable!) deal. Especially if said man had recently signed off on a “No secrets” policy with his girlfriend. (And again, Oliver the “second” time around does take Samantha’s silly deal.)

“Really? Factor: Can we go to 11? As The Fight gets underway, Oliver at one point says all that he really should need to say — he simply needed a bit of time to process this baby bombshell. But rather then allow Felicity to appreciate that need, she instead dwells on “trust” issues, when a lack of trust in no way figured into this equation or his decision. (I did in fact yell at my TV, “It’s not about trust!”)

In the end, we got a fight that was more livid than it had any right being (given Oliver’s need to process the discovery and at least attempt to abide by Samantha’s wackadoodle terms) and one that cast Felicity, who is unarguably an extremely reasonable person, in an out-of-character light. Yes, it all got undone in the next act of the episode, except now Oliver is poised to sit on the truth for an even longer stretch of time.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail the next time Oliver and Felicity work through the news about his son…?

What did you think of the the Arrow fight and how it incredibly came about?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Jason. P says:

    I didnt like it becasue it so contrived. Like soap opera drama where it didnt make much sense. I know its the CW but still. it was a big stretch for me

    • jerrired says:

      I dont watch Arrow. Only watched it because of The crossover but yeah this was my problem with it. Way too soapy, and not in the good way! And Matt this whole post is great! Haha

    • Shelley says:

      Matt, excellent post. Thanks. I agree with these 2. Contrived, pointless, and far fetched story line. So far out there that it makes no sense. This season will parallel season 3. I guess, I’ll start DVRing Arrow. Trouble in paradise for Oliver and Star City. Felicity will finally have her story, but, will it be her crucible being alone, fighting darkness? IDK, I didn’t care for season 3 at all. I don’t know if this is what I’d want to see. I love for the 1st time Neal McDonough as the big bad. This will be what I’ll watch for.

  2. Gale says:

    The trust plays into the secret-keeping which was casually tossed in an earlier convo. The show has tied secret-keeping to his refusal to trust his friends will react the “right” way: e.g. Digg and Felicity the LOA. So, I bought that Felicity would raise it as a trust issue. But yeah it did escalate quickly and I blame that on the Arrow writers for including this emotional, highly significant subplot in an episode that had way too much going on, even for Arrow standards. It didn’t allow for anything except the very basic of expositions and thus removing all nuance that this story line deserved.

    • amb1973 says:

      Yeah, it is obviously a continuation of all the trust stuff from last season, which I guess viewers have already forgotten? It actually made perfect sense for her to be upset about trust stuff after he lied to everyone last season. But whatever, the writers ruined O/F in one episode. They will break up and get back together, it will make no sense, and it won’t matter bc they are now almost as toxic as Oliver/Laurel.

      • Gale says:

        Ah, no, they are not as toxic as Oliver’s previous relationship. There is none of the sister-swapping, the relentless cheating and everything that just made awful relationship awful. He lied to LL repeatedly because he didn’t care enough to not hurt her. He’s lying to Felicity because he’s too afraid to lose her. Is it wrong for him to lie? Absolutely, but I can see why he’s doing it this time.

        • Hmm says:

          I’m sorry, but I disagree with almost everything you said here Gale. First of all, you can’t compare Oliver and Laurel’s situation to Oliver and Felicity. Oliver was still a kid when he was with Laurel. His cheating with Sara was about immaturity, and it had been proven onscreen that his behavior was that of a playboy, not because he didn’t care for Laurel. In fact, season one extensively laid out just how much Oliver cared about Laurel. He loved her, that was evident. Time and time again he said that she is what saved his life on the island. And you cannot ignore that as much as you try to. In terms of his relationship with Felicity, he’s in a different place in his life now that make his lies not about immaturity but about a conscious decision to lie without valid reason. While I can understand why he is accepting Samantha’s terms (you cannot fault him for wanting to know his son), keeping a secret like this from the woman you love is almost as bad as cheating, because how do you trust someone that’s already kept so many secrets from you? This is the MOTHER of all secrets. There is so much more attached to this situation than if he had cheated on her. You have no idea what goes into being the Felicity in this situation – baby mama drama, a kid, it’s a lot for someone to handle.

    • Fosho says:

      Such a good point! This should NOT have been something they squeezed into a crossover. Any hope of keeping some of the viewers they added with this event are sadly not gonna stay with Arrow after this poorly handled and badly written storyline.

  3. hello says:

    Felicity has become such an awful character, sticking her nose into everyone elses business. I cheered when they broke up and was so mad when Barry went back in time.

    • sarah says:

      Disagree with this – she’s been a really good character but her reaction here didn’t actually fit her character which is one of only many problems with this storyline.

      On a separate note now I wonder if Oliver’s son or ex will be the one in the grave which would be a loss for him but wouldn’t shake up the entire dynamic of the show.

    • Liz says:

      I love Felicity but she was out of character with the way she challenged Oliver and tried to find out what he was hiding. I didn’t even recognise her.

    • John NYC says:

      Until Barry went back in time everyone was incinerated and so, show over.

      Odd aspect to be cheering?

  4. sarah says:

    This exactly describes my issue with this whole plot. I get that two central characters in a show can’t be in a relationship without some kind of drama to keep the story alive. I accept that. But this might actually be the worst possible way they could have invented to inject drama into the relationship and the story overall for all the reasons listed. It’s overly soapy, it’s contrived and it’s messy. It’s disappointing because this season was off to a much better start than last season.

    • Julie says:

      I dunno. I’ve loved seeing them be silly normal couple. I’ve never thought them boring. It’s not the central piece of the show – it’s a nice supporting piece. The drama for the sake of drama is tedious.

      • sarah says:

        I don’t like the drama but I’ve accepted that in the world of tv couple just don’t get to stay cute and couple-y forever. On dramatic shows in particular they will always look for ways to create more drama to drive 22 episodes a year. Drama free relationships only seem to exist off screen between secondary characters (Lyla and Diggle for example).

      • Cadiva says:

        I agree, it has provided a nice contrast to the superhero aspect of Oliver’s life to have that bit of “normality” and the friendly banter has been hilarious and given us some of the best and funniest lines on the show so far this season.
        They could have introduced enough drama by having Oliver tell Felicity about William. She would feel unsure about the fact another woman has given him a child, she has doubts about her own self-confidence when it comes to relationships in the first place, she has daddy issues herself etc.
        All of that would have been massively more believable and realistic than that argument scene, brilliantly acted as it was by both of them.
        Even people I know who aren’t particular Olicity fans have said it was complete bollox and out of character.

        • Cheryl says:

          Yes, to all of that!

          It’s actually kind of insulting to us that they don’t think we would appreciate a more mature storyline like that. Or maybe it’s more that it takes a whole lot less effort from the writers to do this than actually plan out a mature, character developing storyline like you suggested :/

  5. EchoX860 says:

    I just can’t deal with Felicity anymore. I really hope it’s her in the grave, although we now have another possibility with it being his Son which is why he sheds a tear, but isn’t distraught like he would be if it was Felicity or Thea or Diggle

    • Jason says:

      I know he just met his son, but do you really think he wouldn’t be distraught if it was his son? Really?

      I think Samantha would fit the reaction better.

      • T says:

        If he hasn’t had a chance to fully connect with his son yet I could see a situation where he might be mad enough to say he’ll kill darhk, but also realize it wasn’t his fault since he never really had the chance to be a part of his life through no fault of his own. He might not grieve the same way as he would for his sister or someone he’s built up a relationship with like those on team arrow.

        But then again it could easily be Lance

        • Crest says:

          He cried for the kid when he was lied to that he was dead (miscarriaged) and you think he is gonna be chill about finally meeting his kid then he gets murdered, LOL what. He chose William over Felicity, he is the most important person in his life now, you dont get Oliver at all.

    • Dr. Opossum says:

      I actually hope the dead person is the son. Hey, it isn’t a real kid! The boy wouldn’t add anything to the show, it would prevent Arrow from killing someone I actually do like, and they revealed the child isn’t Connor Hawke, Green Arrow’s comic book son who is kind of cool. Kill the kid!

  6. Playhouse says:

    You never go full Season 3, Arrow. Never [again].

    • amb1973 says:

      Okay, that was funny. The episode sucked absolute donkey balls, but your comment is awesome. And yeah, S3 is a #NEVERFORGIVE situation, and I’m not going through that again, so Arrow’s off my watchlist. (Going to watch the big O/F breakup, though, bc will enjoy seeing Oliver’s pain.)

    • madison says:

      Someone should hook you up with a direct line to the Arrow powers that be. This comment made my morning, thanks Playhouse!

    • Sil says:

      Great comment. Last night was the start of another season 3. Don’t let Arrow stink again writers.

    • Kyle says:

      Lol!! Yes! I’m so sick of this fake relationship

  7. Yeah, this was probably the single most annoying thing on any show I’ve watched since the fall season started. And what about Felicity recognizing what Oliver’s DNA sequence looks like on a piece of paper?

    • Flashrow says:

      Well she has justified herself saying that she has made a lot oft test to Oliver :p

    • Winter says:

      Yeah I laughed at that. You recognize his gene sequence on sight? I’m pretty sure that would be impossible no matter how many times she’s run his blood.

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        Let’s consider FELICITY RECOGNIZES DNA BY SIGHT as No. 7B.

        • Trish says:

          A genius that runs his DNA sequence on a regular basis wouldn’t recognize said sequence on a piece of paper? Really? I’m going to let that one go since you scored a 10 for calling Felicity the love of Oliver’s life.

        • Playhouse says:

          Hey, she can play a Betamax tape on a computer without a tape reader and less than a minute to figure out how to do it. If that’s not a sign of inhuman genius ability, I don’t know what is.

      • Liz says:

        Yet another stupid thing for the sake of plot. These writers are terrible sometimes!

    • Danii says:

      She matches his DNA and the blood on the sword when Ra’s “killed” him. That’s my theory.

    • John NYC says:

      Paternity or relatedness can by done by restriction fragment length polymorphism, or RFLP analysis and that technique does produce distinctive band patterns. …

      Somewhat supplanted overall by polymerase chain reaction PCR, but I see RFLP patterns on most television shows when they’re doing a “DNA match” tech thing.

  8. Gady says:

    It was stupid drama I can’t believe the writers did it olicity have the most healthy relationship but they will ruin it with unnecessary drama

  9. BarbaraDarlin says:

    Contrived plot point.

  10. Skittles&Bits says:

    Felicity has always been hyper focused on Oliver’s life–specifically his secrets and his past. If she could, I’m sure she’d have him draft her a book detailing his time on Lian Yu color coded and alphabetized. It’s one of the things I can’t stand about the way her character is written because to me she comes off as nosy and obnoxious though that may not be the case for others. The entire fight was typical CW angst-ridden drama. Just reading fans reaction to it makes me glad I ditched Arrow after season 2 lol.

    • This right here. That’s what’s kind of irked me about her from the beginning. I’ve liked her a lot and at times felt she was justified in asking him questions and wanting to know the truth, especially when he first started going to her for all his research needs at the beginning. But then she seem to get too nosy about things and got angry about some things that she shouldn’t have. Like the whole Shado thing and her snarky comment about meeting all these beautiful women when he was missing. It’s like damn girl get a grip. He’s with you and is trying to do his best by you. Cut him some slack at times.

    • rinaex says:

      Honestly, she actually lost me as a character during the whole situation with how she dealt with Moira and finding out that Malcolm was Thea’s real father. I’ve never been able to forget that.

      • This right here is when I started hated her. She use to be my favorite character until that episode, but she is too nosy and thinks she has a right to know everything even when people do not want to tell her anything.

        • Kafiyah says:

          I want to like this a thousand times. I dislike nosy people and frankly his child has nothing to do with her at the moment. He won’t even see him regularly.

  11. K says:

    I watch soaps. I like soaps.

    I would be seriously pissed at any soap that allowed this particular overused trope to play out this way. What a clustermess.

    I especially agree with your points about Samantha’s ridiculous ultimatum (and Oliver’s inexplicable reaction to it) and Felicity’s initial meltdown about trust. Both reactions seemed to be geared entirely towards creating a problem where there really shouldn’t BE one! SO stupid.

    It was truly one of the worst cases ever of writers writing a result (a way to – hopefully temporarily – separate Oliver and Felicity) without spending any time on figuring out how to get there by having characters behave in ways that make ANY kind of sense.

  12. Dj says:

    I pretty much agree with a lot of if not everything Matt said. If only I could express it the way he did.

  13. Winter says:

    Yeah Number 8 was I literally screamed you can’t just do that! You can tell him not to make it public or not to tell the kid yet BUT you can’t say no one in your life can know about this. He hasn’t abandoned the child he hasn’t done anything wrong with regards to him she can’t just act like he’s being unreasonable to get to know his kid. She is the one who lied to him. He should be angry and he should point out that he has rights here.

  14. Sigh says:

    I actually got the impression that maybe Stephen Amell had some kind of say in the direction of the story…but I don’t know I can’t see him being on board with this dive off the deep end.

    • suzyque says:

      Yeah, he had mentioned in an interview a while ago that he was the one who suggested we see the first hint that Oliver has a son on The Flash instead of Arrow (during last year’s crossover). But I doubt he’d be on board with this. He’s the biggest Olicity shipper out there — not to mention how him lying to her face undos all the growth his character has gone through this season. I hate this storyline.

  15. DS says:

    Exhausting storyline. Repetitive too. I’m having Gilmore Girls/Everwood flashbacks.

    • Sean says:

      I actually though I was watching Castle for a a while there…

    • amb1973 says:

      Total April Nardini situation. Which was totally hated and pretty much killed GG.

    • Amy says:

      I love the GG reference. After that whole debacle I am still not a fan of stupid surprise children to ruin relationships “twists”. Though to be fair it is no where as infuriating as GG. That I will always hate. It was so obvious Arrow was going to go down the keeping kid from Felicity thing though I had hoped they would rise above it & just have Oliver tell Felicity so she could be fine about it. But no. TV shows never learn. They can’t resist even when it makes little sense.

  16. Sarah says:

    You nailed it! I was super annoyed with this whole situation during the “first timeline” but then when they had a second chance at it, I was like, “Oh good. They’ll fix this nonsense.” Then they didn’t. Ugh.

  17. speedy says:

    I completely agree with points 8 and 9–if Samantha had said “Oliver, you know what happens to the mayors of Star City…look at what happened to the daughter of the last one who ran,” I would understand more her hesitation, but they didn’t go with that, so it just seems like she came up with that because Olicity needed to have some drama and there is no way to do that with the way the chararacters are written unless one, or both, of them are out of character. But my BIGGEST issue is Oliver agreeing to her terms. Samantha was in the wrong. She lied about the existence of his kid, and then she admitted that she knew Oliver had changed and she continued to keep it from him, and then he confronts her and she lies AGAIN, and then when he confirms it with a DNA test, she somehow manages to convince him to do everything on her terms when she has no leg to stand on despite being his mom–a father has rights, too, and you would think Marc Guggenheim, being a lawyer, would have gone a different, more logical route with this story. Instead of Oliver saying “waitaminute, I’m his dad, I have rights,” he says okay to EVERYTHING, despite the fact that he has so much at stake. It’s ridiculous. I don’t agree very much with the last point because last season, Oliver teamed up with Malcolm to take down the LOA instead of trusting Dig and Felicity, so I understand where she is coming from when it comes to the secrets he keeps. I can understand not wanting to talk about it, but I completely agree with her that it should have been a relief to tell her (of course, she didn’t have all the information–again, contrived…but in the first timeline, there was no chance for her to cool down and for them to talk about it because of everything that happened after…in the second, he flat out lies to her when she asks again). It is really disappointing that after writing those two so well for the last 7 episodes, they come up with this…and it’s especially disappointing because I really never expected them to go with something so contrived, so trite, so clearly out of character (Felicity would have waited to be told, I agree with that), and because I expected BETTER of the writers, I was surprised by how badly the story was written.

    • Liz says:

      All of this. None of their reasons was realistic. Samantha talked nonsense. It did come across as creating drama for the sake of drama. Olicity are otherwise a really great couple. They’ve written them so well this season and then this happened. Not sure what the writers are doing.

    • amb1973 says:

      I think a lot of people have forgotten about Oliver’s LOA/Malcolm lies last season.

  18. Kate says:

    I too thought the “darkest timeline” fight was unreasonable. Yes, Oliver shouldn’t have put forth the lie (and I think that is how the writers will get around this being a big bombshell the second time around in that he lied by omission this time around) but not only was he right in being entitled to a moment (and it sort of seemed like she wasn’t getting that even though she saw he was running a paternity test he somehow knew before hand) to process especially with the fact they are currently fighting an immortal who is threatening to lay waste to two cities and isn’t even couching the threat in rebirth necessitates death thing that Damien is espousing. I think I see several ways they get them both to a point in how they are currently wrong (she knows he is hiding something and he should realize he can trust her enough to keep it between them, though I’d suggest they should worry about their apartment being bugged) by having several things happen. First, he will take some unsanctioned trips to Central City under the guise of helping Barry and either, Barry will not cover well because he is a sucky liar or Alex in being a pretty good political consultant will have someone tail him and confront Oliver with it in front of Thea. Thea will likely beat some sense into Oliver. On the other side, guess who is in town again, Donna. She will likely be able to actually understand Samantha’s fairly unreasonable demands because I actually sense a similar thing happened but she cut Felicity’s dad out when he likely came calling again. And its possible Samantha gets a visit from another maternal figure in Oliver’s life (because you know she probably found the ring). I suspect, though, this traffic to and from Central City might lead us to a death that actually has more dramatic effects on Oliver’s life than the likely suspects of Felicity, Thea or Lance. How about Samantha. Like, Damien learns about Oliver’s trips and Malcolm, the evil idiot, suggests a way to disrupt Oliver’s life in ways he can’t even imagine and heavily imply this might kill two birds with one stone.

  19. wonderwall says:

    I can’t blame anyone in this storyline because this plot wreaks contrivance. The writers are trying SO HARD to keep the drama factor up that they have to make Oliver and Felicity act out of character. Because Felicity blowing up at Oliver like that WAS out of character and Oliver not telling Felicity the truth after how far he came this season WAS out of character and threw out all of the character development he had this season.

    I’d also like to add a point for Oliver not telling Felicity the truth in the end (Really?! Factor 11). It was ridiculous and contrived for him to keep that secret from Felicity. He should’ve told her and kept that a secret from Samantha, whom he owes nothing. It makes no sense why he didn’t go this route considering how desperate he was to tell Felicity.

    This whole plot makes no sense and it makes both Oliver/Felicity look like characters they aren’t.

    • Bwhit says:

      When the credits rolled even my husband said, Most guys would love to know how an argument ends before it happens to avoid it the second time around! He should have sat her down with the paper and explained the whole thing. That would have honored his character growth.

    • Crest says:

      You want Oliver to lose his son just to keep Felicity?
      If Felicity drops Oliver over this “secret”, she doesn’t deserve him.

      • kath says:

        He doesn’t have his son though. He’s only allowed to be “Mommy’s friend” who gets to visit if and when Mommy allows. So it’s not a question of losing him, although losing Felicity is very likely if he keeps lying to her.

        As Felicity said in the first timeline, it’s not that he has a son that upsets her, it’s that he’s keeping him a secret from the woman he said is his team and life partner.

  20. Bwhit says:

    I agree with all of this. I really don’t like Samantha and her self-righteous attitude. In my opinion, making conditions in who Oliver can tell, especially when he mentions Felicity speaks to what motives she has. Felicity should have taken a better approach when she confronted Oliver given the fact he only knew for a few hours…. Give the guy a minute to process before throwing out the ‘you don’t trust me!’ line. Oliver should have told her when he got his re-do, Felicity would surely have agreed to keep it between them. The only person I feel bad for in this is Barry, poor guy got thrust into the middle of full on couple drama.

  21. Liz says:

    They wrote Felicity out of character for this storyline and I’m still mad about it. I don’t think she’d ever go off at Oliver the way she did in their argument. It’s still confusing to me. But the fact is Oliver should never have lied and yet he did. Even after processing the fact that he has a child, he was gonna lie. So they’ve kinda ruined it because Oliver usually tells Felicity most things, especially important things, so this added in an unnecessary drama into their relationship for the sake of drama. It hasn’t felt this contrived since season 3. It’s a shame because I love Olicity usually.

    • Liz says:

      Oh and also the baby mama was the worst because her demands felt unrealistic. Oliver has legal rights to see his son. He also doesn’t owe her anything since she’s the one who took his child away from him and lied. Oliver should be the one making demands here, not the other way around. Asking him to lie to his friends and family about having a son was despicable. She should be ashamed of herself.

      I HATE this storyline so much. It feels like it’s affected everything in a bad way. I don’t even want to see him be a dad anyway. It has no place on Arrow.

  22. lily says:

    I hated it not just for the contrived drama, but isn’t Oliver supposed to learn and grow as a person? And yet here is he lying yet again. I’m so tired of this. He takes 2 steps forward and then 10 steps back.

    I was promised a healthy, adult relationship and I was given that for 7 episodes and then this happened.

    • lily says:

      Also I’m so tired of people blaming Felicity for everything. The fight was awful and the worst piece of writing on this show for a long time. But whatever happens next is on Oliver. He chose not to tell her the second time around and when she breaks up with him (because we all know it’s coming) it’s all on him. But I’m sure we’ll all find a way to blame her for whatever happens.

      • Liz says:

        It is kind of worrying and sad how Felicity is somehow to blame for this and yet she’s the one being lied to here. So unfair. I actually feel sorry for her.

      • Jamie says:

        ^^This! I think when Oliver had the 2nd chance he could have approached it completely differently. I agree he needed some time to process it and I agree Felicity obviously has some trust issues, but who wouldn’t. Oliver has a history of lying to people and doing things his own way. He was prone to keep secrets before and I think at this point she is hoping that she’s important enough in his life to not be lied to. I didn’t get the demands of keeping his son a complete secret. Maybe she’s trying to protect him since Oliver is running for mayor, but secrets have a way of coming out and when they do, I can’t see it being good at all.

  23. Jason says:

    I am starting to think that Samantha winds up in the grave (from the season premier). This will lead to William on Oliver’s (and Felicity’s) doorstep….leading to Felicity find out about Oliver’s secret.

  24. Alex W. says:

    Yes, 1000% agree with Matt. I love Arrow, I love Oliver and Felicity, but that whole situation was totally out of character for Felicity. Oliver had every right to process the situation, she just went way overboard. And Oliver would at least be smart enough to know he would never have to cave in to Samantha’s ridiculous over the top demand of telling no one. I was totally loving this season until this episode, now with the spoilers I’ve seen for the next episode, I’m actually dreading it. They did so good with the tension in Lost Souls, and then to just tear it all apart like this. I hope the writers fix this situation.

    • John NYC says:

      Not out of character for one more trust issue to come bubbling up and be the straw. Though she hadn’t, we witnessed his lack of trust in anyone result in everyone getting incinerated with the exception of Barry…. to underscore that flaw in Oliver remains to be challenged.

      One more leaving to deal alone with a situation or demanding Oliver’s way is the only way: and once more that not working out so well, not a sword in the guts or a city burning incineration but still….

      • Dj says:

        Wait his lack of trust in anyone got everyone incinerated? He trusted Carter to have Kendra ready and she wasn’t. He trusted Cisco to invent something to help take down Savage and it didn’t work. But overall not having the magic rock is what got everyone incinerated. It made Cisco invention work.

        • John NYC says:

          His lack of trust being reflected in “Oliver’s way is the only way”. Which for round 2 you’ll notice he very notably changed.

  25. This the downfall of Arrow. Kids always ruin shows. Dead end plot.

  26. My biggest issue was how would Samantha know that you told Felicity? “Hey Felicity, I have a son and the mom doesn’t want anyone to know so you can’t come with me to visit okay? Just until I can build her trust and then it is family good times all around.”
    it’s like the writers have forgotten all of the strides that Oliver has made this season and wrote Felicity to be a crazy psycho. Call him out for lying to your face but give the man time to process for pete’s sake.
    Real angst would be trying to balance being the Green Arrow, running for mayor and trying to make sure that Darhk doesn’t find out about his son while maintaining a healthy relationship. Drama just for drama’s sake is never fun to watch.

    • Cheryl says:

      That would have been so much better, and much more in line with the character development. This plot decision really, really disappointed me after a good start to S4 :(

  27. ndixit says:

    This whole subplot brought the an otherwise good episode down. This is Olicity drama at its worst. It requires Samantha, Felicity, and Oliver to be unreasonable. It’s an issue I have with Arrow in general. The characters are their own worst enemies. I mean I get if Samantha doesn’t want it to be publically known that William is Oliver’s son but why can’t he tell his friends? Why can’t Felicity give Oliver even a bit of space to process such huge information before she starts accusing him of not loving or trusting her? And why on earth would Oliver lie to Felicity after Barry warned him that the fight happened because of it? It’s all really silly.

  28. Valeria says:

    To whoever wrote this: I love you.

  29. lonestarjrs says:

    I like Felicity and I love Oliver ….I hate Felicity with Oliver together…zero chemistry and it just does not work for me and now they call each other honey…point me to the nearest barf bucket

    • Sheila says:

      Yes. Agree. I watch crossover episodes only now because the showrunners caved to the fans by putting those two together. That being said, I mostly enjoyed the crossover and am looking forward to the legends show.

  30. The episode was quite stupid. In order for Felicity to have turned it into a trust issue, she would have had to be aware of the ultimatum Samantha had given to Oliver, which she was not. Even in that situation, she would have had to given him time to fail to tell her, which again, she did not. Then we have Barry saying that you basically can’t do anything to change the past because of the backlash it could create, but he goes about doing that anyway, which of course I am thankful for. But when Oliver wants to know what the fight between he and Felicity was about, he makes it sound like it was because she found out he has a son, instead of the factor of him lying to her, multiple times. The writers are beginning to fail this season too. The unnecessary angst and distraction from story line they created last season, made a lot of people from both sides of the aisle, start to resent the show. Apparently they want to repeat a failure…

    • Sasha says:

      YES THIS!

      That why i thought Oliver hid it this time around. Barry did not explain things properly, I dont know if he over the trust part of the argument but he did not tell Oliver it was the reason. Barry made it seem that Oliver having a son was the cause for the fight not the trust part!

  31. Amy says:

    I keep thinking I should give Arrow another go. Soap opera stories like that (plus randomly inserted child characters) make me go nooooooo.

  32. JC1 says:

    This was just so utterly and completely contrived. I get that Samantha would want Oliver to keep William’s existence a secret from most people – look what happened to Jessica Danforth’s daughter. But insisting that he keep it a secret even from Felicity was absurd, and only happened to manufacture conflict and a probable breakup for Olicity down the road. Oliver going along with it was absurd. Felicity’s overreaction was absurd – I get her being angry that he lied to her face, but the huge jump to the whole “trust” thing was way over the top. Drama between couples is going to happen – I get that. But having characters do things that make no sense for no other reason other than creating draaaaaama breaks the suspension of disbelief, and reduces the characters to puppets dancing on the strings of the writers’ whims, rather than real characters we’re supposed to believe in.

  33. Trish says:

    I don’t even know where to begin. First, I’m not exactly sure how anyone can place this on Felicity’s shoulders? This is the most contrived plot I’ve ever seen. This kid reveal was drama that really should have been a blip on the radar. Felicity wouldn’t care that Oliver had a kid. It’s not like he cheated on her to create the kid. For Oliver to to agree to lie and keep this huge secret instead of challenging this woman is silly. Also, Felicity tracked down Barry and Oliver because the team needed them. Barry had no idea the DNA stuff was about paternity, Oliver told him it was about Damien. But this comes back to Oliver choosing to lie. All of it is contrived and out of character but it strips Oliver of the welcomed agency and growth he’s shown this season. Having said that, Arrow has always shown Oliver to experience the consequences of his bad decisions, This is no different. Felicity gets to have the agency and the writing that allows her to walk away if Oliver’s reasons for lying to her and keeping this secret doesn’t work for her. Although knowing Arrow, this will be the time they finally address Felicity’s own abandonment issues with her father. It’s incredibly frustrating. Oliver almost seemed desperate to keep her instead of doing right by her and letting her go until he could tell her everything. I find myself wondering why this plot mattered? The kid is not Connor Hawke, is Arrow really going to have a nine year old on this show? Er, why? Meanwhile, I’m over in the corner wonder when I can expect Felicity’s story arc to begin, you know, like PapaSmoak? Because at this point, Oliver can go play house with baby mama and kid if it means I get started on the telling of the Arrow season four stories I’ve been promised since SDCC and that have essentially stalled by this eight episode Legend’s setup. Also, at last we left off, Andy Diggle, he was sitting in a cage. I hope they put him in a diaper and left him snacks to munch on while they were out of town. I’ll say it again, DCTV is stretching themselves too thin by using the same showrunners for all their shows. All of this has energy has been to setup Legends, yet last night I realized I have zero intention of watching another show by this same group of people. How ironic is that?

  34. Ryan says:

    I completely agree with all of your points. I was literally yelling at my screen when Barry just handed over the paper like it was no big deal. Some friend! And with all of his experience with his own secrets you’d think he’d be better at keeping one. And as for Samantha’s crazy deal, Oliver could’ve easily said, uh no, I have DNA results and will take you to court if I have to. Instead he just agrees to her nonsense? Also agree that Felicity’s behavior was way out of character & didn’t fit Oliver’s behavior.

  35. tanya says:

    This whole episode felt like a jumbled up mess. The writers tried to fit too much in, then brought in some ridiculous sub-plot that nobody can make sense of, just to give the main characters drama. It made Oliver & Felicity act out of character and for the first time in a while it actually felt like a CW show filled with soap opera shenanigans. Poorly done writers, poorly done.

  36. Drew says:

    I’m going to say that it wasn’t out of character for Felicity. It just put things into perspective. Felicity spent years fantasizing about the guy on the salmon ladder and eventually convinced herself (and Oliver) that she was in love with him. However, she betrayed their deal to start a new life after last season, and continued to work with the team behind his back. She routinely pushes Oliver away when she decides that her issues are none of his business (Ray and Donna). And when something truly explosive and hurtful happens to Oliver, she turns it around and makes it about her.
    She is still living in a fantasy. She wants Oliver to be there cooking dinner when she wants him around, and gone when it inconveniences her. She wants his every emotion to revolve around her own feelings, even when it doesn’t involve her. She doesn’t want Oliver, she wants the fantasy on the salmon ladder.
    I really don’t know why Oliver takes as much crap as he does. He lets Samantha (who stole his kid and robbed him of a chance to be a mature father, thus putting him and Sara on the Queen’s Gambit in the first place) walk all over him. Then he lets Felicity walk all over him, and turns around and goes back to her once he knows how she reacted to his news. (I get that she said that she doesn’t care that he has a kid… but maybe she should care. Just a little. Not in an angry way, but in the way that a normal person would sympathize with someone in his situation).
    They have written Felicity and Oliver both horribly this season. This episode just sealed the deal on Felicity for me. I want her gone.

    • Liz says:

      I think they’ve actually written Oliver and Felicity really well this season. Until now. I’m not sure how wanting the man she loves and lives with to be honest with her means she’s being unreasonable or just wanting the fantasy of Oliver. She just wants honesty. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Trust and honesty in a serious relationship is paramount.

      Also it’s pretty sad that Felicity gets the blame and hate while she’s the one being lied to here.

      • Drew says:

        Felicity spent most of their relationship lying to Oliver! She can’t pretend to be the victim of his lack of trust when she has been shown time and time again to either flat out lie to him, or push him out of the picture so that she can deal with her own issues.
        He wanted time to process his own issue in his own head. He had less than a friggin’ day to let this horrible news sink in before Felicity was acting like she was the victim in this whole thing.
        And even if the trust issue was an issue, if she really cared about him, she would be able to put that on the back burner and be there for him, because he even said in plain words that his world just exploded… and she didn’t care. Even a non-romantic friend would step back and bit at that moment. But she didn’t. Because he wasn’t putting her feelings first every second of every day. Trust and honesty is important, but he didn’t even have enough time to dig that hole for himself. She butted in where she, quite frankly, had no business being, and she stole that drama from him.
        Their relationship doesn’t work. Half the time, they’re pretending to be a perfect couple living a perfect life, and the other half of the time, they (usually Felicity) are lying to each other or pushing each other away. There has never been true honesty or respect from either one of them, because it’s all an act.

        • Liz says:

          I disagree that it’s an act. I think they’ve worked pretty well together too. And while I agree that she should have given him more time (that felt very out of character to me), demanding honesty in a committed relationship isn’t a bad thing. It’s not about making it about herself. It’s about making them on equal footing. Her approach was much more in character at the end of the episode when she said she wanted to be a good team mate and wanted to help him but she could only do that if he tells her. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

          And I don’t see Felicity lying about helping the team even in the same realm as Oliver lying about the fact that he has a kid. They don’t compare. Oliver’s secret is life changing and affects Felicity too. Felicity was literally hacking. That’s it.

          Anyway, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree as usual, Drew! haha.

      • Alex W. says:

        I love Felicity, and I get that she’s being lied to and even that it would certainly be a trigger of hers after season 3. My issue with her reaction is that she gave Oliver zero time to process this earth shattering news before jumping all over him that he lied to her. It’s not like in the first timeline he had days or weeks to tell her and didn’t, he had minutes. Not to mention to deadly guy who was threatening to kill entire cities; I think he deserves a little slack for the first timeline. Secondly, two episodes ago when she needed time to figure out her feelings about her and him and Ray, he gave it to her. No questions asked, he just wanted her to be able to figure out her feelings. She didn’t give him that at all, and I think finding out you have a 10 year old child is a little more to process then your dead ex boyfriend not actually being dead.

        Now in the new timeline, when he is intentionally keeping it from her, she has every right to give him the exact same speech, and she’ll be right about it all. I just really hope he tells her and it doesn’t come to that.

        Also I agree with you, I love the way they have been written this season, but I hated the way this episode was written.

    • Rashell says:

      Wow. I don’t think we watch the same show. Oliver is the one living in the fantasy. He’s the one that wanted to drop the life that they had built completely and just start over from scratch. Felicity couldn’t do that. But she didn’t want to force Oliver into going back to a life that he didn’t want. So she helped the team on her own, and let Oliver do as he wanted and stay away from it. Oliver is the one that actually thinks it’s ok to lie to the woman who shares his life about having a child that he fully intends to have a relationship with. Oliver is the one with the confusion about reality.

      Should she have told him about working with the team? Maybe. But Felicity’s secret had the effect of giving them a couple of inconvenient hiccups in their vacation plans. And when confronted with said secret, Felicity immediately owned it. And took the time to explain to Oliver WHY she was doing it behind his back.

      As for Ray and Donna, it’s completely within your right as an individual to tell your partner that there are some things you don’t want them to help you with. You don’t have to stop being your own person entirely just because you’re in a relationship. And if only Oliver had realized that and simply told Felicity that he was having an issue that he wasn’t prepared to talk to her about right now, the whole thing could have gone much differently.

      But when confronted Oliver flat out lied and created a story that had absolutely no basis in fact. And that is what makes what Oliver did so hard for Felicity to accept. It wasn’t the secret that was so impossible for her to understand. It was the fact that Oliver could straight up lie to her when she flat out asked him for the truth. And the realization that he truly didn’t think he ever needed to tell her the truth. That kind of betrayal of trust is an immediate and visceral pain. So Felicity got mad and walked away. Who’s to say that after the heat of the moment died down, she wouldn’t have tried to talk to Oliver about the whole thing again? But they never got the chance what with the whole world imploding. And when Felicity said she didn’t care that he had a kid, the intent behind that was that she didn’t hold it against him. She didn’t see it as an issue in their relationship going forward. It was shocking, but not something that she couldn’t accept.

      For me Felicity is not the problem here. This mess is all Oliver. This is classic Ollie behavior. When you’re afraid of the truth, it’s just easier in the moment to lie. That way you don’t have to face any immediate consequences. You can have a relationship with your child and with Felicity leaving both of them in the dark. And you just ignore the fact that it’s an incredible betrayal of someone who has put their love and trust in you. This is actually the first time I’ve ever agreed with Oliver’s belief that Felicity is too good for him.

      • Liz says:

        THIS. So much. Oliver lied. He was wrong to lie and he always planned to lie about it. He fell backwards into classic Ollie behaviour. He’s the one in the wrong here.

        • Drew says:

          Oh, Oliver was wrong about a lot of things. He was wrong in how he dealt with Felicity. He shouldn’t have lied to her. He shouldn’t have let her go off on him when he flat out said that his world just exploded and he needed a second, and she didn’t care. I’m not saying that Oliver was right. He has also been horribly written this year.
          But that said, Felicity went behind his back, forcing Barry into the awkward position of betraying one friend for the sake of another. She forced herself into a situation that Oliver wasn’t ready for her to be a part of yet. And sorry if season 3 is an issue, but he’s not on probation. If the trust isn’t there enough for her to give him some space when he needs it, there’s really not much more to say, is there?
          Oliver is not a guy who is always super happy, cooking gourmet dinners and loving life. He has been through a lot and has a lot of issues and a lot of darkness in him. That’s not changing. That’s who he is. He can pretend to be someone else, but it isn’t going to last. He, like many people, needs to work some things out on his own before he can open up about them. If that doesn’t mesh with Felicity’s trust issues, then again, there’s not much more to say.

          • Rashell says:

            But Oliver didn’t ask Felicity for time. He didn’t tell her he was working through something on his own, and needed space. He lied and deflected. And Felicity was concerned. She could tell something was wrong. I think Felicity could have understood if Oliver had been honest and asked for some time and space. But that’s not how Oliver went about it. And neither Felicity or Barry knew what Barry was actually giving her until after the fact because Oliver even lied to Barry while asking for his help. And it wasn’t until after he’d been caught lying that Oliver even tried to tell Felicity how much this had rocked his world. But by then the damage and betrayal of trust had already been done. If he’d led with that explanation, and Felicity hadn’t respected his request then I would be on board with your argument. But that’s not how it went down.

            Yes, Oliver has faced a lot of horrible things and survived them. But this wasn’t post island Oliver behavior. This was pre-island Ollie behavior. This is, how do I not have to face any consequences for my bad behavior Ollie. I can understand and sympathize with Oliver lying and keeping secrets in his misguided attempt to protect people. It still takes away their own agency, which is wrong, but I can follow his reasoning there. With this, not so much. Maybe because this was something that actually happened during his Ollie years, it triggered that old instinct in him. But here Oliver lied to protect himself. He lied because it was the path of least resistance. And while it’s fine that Oliver will always have struggles with PTSD and a certain level of darkness, it doesn’t absolve him of responsibility when he makes poor choices. And it certainly doesn’t mean that the people in his life have to accept being treated without the proper amount of love and respect.

          • amb1973 says:

            Fantastic comment. People think Oliver should get away with everything bc of his PTSD, but (1) this is Ollie, not PTSD; and (2) having PTSD does not give someone a get-out-of-jail-free card to treat people like dirt.

      • amb1973 says:

        He was Ollie all the way. Even cuddled up to Felicity’s boobs after lying about the EXACT SAME WOMAN/KID. And really, no one liked Ollie.

        • kath says:

          I think if they hadn’t had him lie to and cuddle Felicity IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY he lied to and cuddle Laurel ten years earlier, I don’t think people would have been so upset.
          But the way it was shot, that was pure Ollie.

          • A says:

            I didn’t like it the first time I watched it, but if you actually compare there aren’t that many similarities between the 2 cuddles – apart from the lying. In the Laurel scene, he’s laid with his head on her lap, facing AWAY from her. He still looks upset. It’s like he’s not even in the same room as her and in his head he probably isn’t. In the Felicity scene he cuddles right up to her and lays his head on her chest, near her heart (ok, her boob). It’s like he has the need to be as close as possible (maybe he, like us, knows how this is gonna go when she finds out and wants to get the comfort while he can …)

    • Trish says:

      LOL, really? THIS episode sealed the deal for you “Drew”? I’m sure all of your posts this season would contradict that but OK. Oliver and Felicity aren’t going anywhere. You’ll just have to deal with that. They’ve been building them for far too many seasons to think otherwise. I mean she is the love of his life. As I recall, Felicity was bored to death by domesticity, thus why she kept helping the team when they needed her to,

      • Drew says:

        I’ve made plenty of comments this year. I said that I don’t like how they’ve written Oliver, Felicity, or their relationship. I said that I used to like Felicity, but they’ve been trying to hard to make her something that she’s not. I said that I want the old Felicity back, because I was a big fan of hers, once upon a time. I said that she works better on The Flash. i said that her being in the grave would open up more storylines for more characters than anyone else on the show and it would be really bold of the writers to go there (though I don’t think they will). Yup, I said all of those things.
        So, which one of them contradicts what I said here? This episode sealed the deal on my disliking Felicity as a person. No more “I want the old Felicity back”. No more “She works better on The Flash”. This episode made it hard for me to see her as anything but a self centered, annoying, arrogant character and now I’m not saying that I want her to be the dead character because it will open up stories. I’m saying that I want her gone. I don’t care if she dies or just leaves. I just want her gone, because I don’t want to see her on my TV anymore.
        Sorry if that offends you Olicity shippers, but not all of us watch the show with cartoon hearts circling our heads. I watch for characters and storylines, not because I swoon every time two characters look at each other (though Kendra and Roy are totes MFEO, right?!). The relationship is dragging down the characters and it’s dragging down the show. It should end.

    • Carla Krae says:

      As for Oliver, he’s taking crap now because of the guilt over his sins. He thinks he deserves to take it as “new leaf Oliver”. It’s not uncommon.

  37. A says:

    Agree with most of these points, except the last one. Felicity wasn’t out of character, because we know she has trust issues. Its been mentioned in the show before and I think it ties into the issues with her father.

    Baby mama instantly became the worst character in the show as soon as she told Oliver he couldn’t tell ANYONE and I’m hoping she wont be on the screen much.

    The writers had a good thing going with Olicity. They were being praised left, right and centre for how mature they were handling the couple, but with this one Soap Opera storyline they’ve almost ruined it. I don’t want Oliver to propose now. I don’t want to root for Oliver. Its drama for dramas sake and if the writers aren’t careful, it will ruin the show.

    One thing that can save it now, is if Oliver tells Felicity as soon as possible. You could tell she knew something was going on by the look on her face at the end and leaving it will make it so much worse.

    The fact that the writers actually went with this storyline and thought we’d actually like it makes me wonder if they don’t remember the comments about season 3?

  38. Amy34 says:

    Thank you for this! They can get away with much weirdness on these shows, but this was just way too much weirdness. None of it added up in a logical world indeed and I don’t like how the show is turning into a show that seems to be more and more about selling drama than following a storyline. Hope it improves during the season, since season 2 I just started disliking it more and more and it makes me sad cause arrow used to be my favorite show.

  39. Itakha says:

    I didn’t like much the episode mostly because the LoT storyline was too heavy, didn’t feel like an Arrow episode. But there were fun moments I enjoyed, like Barry and Oliver, these two work so well together. What was off was Oliver going back to his Ollie behaviour. In S4 his character has been so well developed and shows a maturity that has made him a likeable man. That man doesn’t lie to Felicity on such an important subject. It was unexpected and unexplainable. Lying for a woman he owes nothing to and to protect himself. That was badly written after 7 episodes of amazing writing. Episode 409 seems to have interesting developments. I hope the writers will be able to get back on track. I like being able to like Oliver Queen not just as a damaged human being but as a honorable man too.

  40. Eric says:

    I am not an Ollicity shipper. I like Oliver and I love Felicity, but I think they make more sense apart. This may be because as a reader of GA comics I see Ollie and Laurel as endgame. I think this fight made sense, if you are willing to take logic leaps, like you have to do with most shows. Everyone is saying that Felicity should recognize that Ollie would need time to process this before he tells her, but was he planning on telling her? It seems like the answer would be no, seeing as how he folded like a card table when Samantha demanded his silence. Also, as another commenter posted, last season was basically all about Ollie lying and keeping secrets. Felicity has a right to be angry and irrational, because we all would be in her shoes. Of course it’s not about trust, and I’m sure every time you fight with a loved one, you are actually fighting about that thing and not making it about something else. That’s realistic.

    • Drew says:

      Oh, man. You’re about to get all kinds of crap for not only saying that Oliver and Felicity make more sense apart, but throwing Laurel in as Oliver’s rightful love interest. The Olicity shippers don’t like that sort of thing at all. Good luck.

      • Liz says:

        Was that even necessary, Drew? Really? What did that achieve except to make you look petty?

        • Drew says:

          It’s fair warning. Sorry, but there are a good many Olicity shippers who have gone off on every person who has so much as said that they don’t want Laurel to die. Anyone who references the comic books is usually attacked by at least one person. Sorry if it makes me look petty, but I’m just sharing the benefit of my experience in dealing with Olicity shippers. Was anything I said factually untrue?

    • Liz says:

      I don’t agree with you that Oliver and Felicity are better apart, or that Oliver and Laurel should be together (he’s lied to her and done way worse things) but thank you for saying Felicity has every right to be angry. I think it was pretty obvious he had no plans of telling her the truth ever. I think his ‘wanting time to process’ was a lie too and a way to deflect the fact that she just caught him in a lie.

      • JC1 says:

        I actually don’t agree that he had no plans of telling her ever. I think he would have told her after it was all over if Samantha hadn’t made her ridiculous demand. He was practically begging her to let him tell Felicity. It was entirely contrived and stupid that she wouldn’t allow even just that, and entirely contrived and stupid that Oliver would just go along with it. But I do think he would have told her if not for that.

    • Rashell says:

      As someone with a non-comic background, I’ll never see Oliver and Laurel as a couple on Arrow. But the rest of your post, I totally agree with. Felicity made sense to me. It was Oliver that I couldn’t understand or agree with in this one. He just did everything wrong from the moment Samantha made that ridiculous demand. And sadly he did no better the second time around.

    • DavidJ says:

      Yeah I’ve never really understood the obsession with Oliver and Felicity being together either. It was obviously easy to understand why she’d have a crush on the guy early on, but they certainly don’t seem like some “perfect, magical pairing” to me, and I don’t really sense a ton of chemistry between them.

  41. Harvey says:

    Arrow’s becoming very stupid nowadays. Don’t know what’s wrong..I mean, the story might be something but the screen play is bad…Man I miss season 2!!

    And a spark’s missing in Flash too, I mean like there was something in season 1 that was too big of a mystery as to who is the other speedster…The who question didn’t even begin to come on this season and it ain’t that good, as it ain’t personal or at least if it is, nobody’s caring about it.

  42. MelAH. says:

    I was completely dissapointed in the drama they came up with for this. Really Arrow writers, really?

    I can’t believe Felicity would have just blown up at Oliver like that without processing everything first. I can’t believe Oliver would have lied straight to her face like that to cause said blow up. It should have been – hey, I’m not ready to talk to you about this yet. I really think the first time around he would have told her after he mulled and wallowed a bit. Probably after they were done with Savage.

    It backslides Oliver’s character growth big time. I expected better of the writers then this.

    And, gee, thanks Barry for telling Oliver it was his fault everyone died because he told Felicity he had a kid and she dumped him. And then encourage Oliver to bring William into his life and not tell Felicity. Not helping dude. You go figure out where your own lies lead you. Let Oliver make his own decisions.

  43. Dot says:

    I didn’t like the fight, or the way Oliver did things the second time around, but I didn’t like it because it just doesn’t bode well going forward. I would agree that during the fight Felicity was not hearing Oliver out and it was very much soap opera and drama-ish. Having said that, people have this idea that arguments on tv should make sense, and follow a certain logic, but in reality, in our real lives, arguments and fights tend to get irrational and ridiculous very quickly once emotions are at work, why do we expect different on tv? So to me the arguing etc was quite believable… It was a stupid argument and Oliver made a bad decision by not telling Felicity about the kid but people do stupid things like that in real life…

  44. DW907 says:

    Oliver knows an attorney (Laurel). He could have told Felicity, then gone to Laurel to make it all legal when it comes to custody. This woman would have no legal right not to share custody/visitation with Oliver. I also question if the baby is Oliver’s or added twist, his father’s. They would share the same DNA. Could it be she slept with said father, got pregnant and then slept with Oliver to cover it up? Also, how would this woman know if Oliver told Felicity? He could have told her and sworn her to secrecy.

  45. Azerty says:

    Agree with everything in this article. I should also add the fact that Felicity “recognized” Oliver’s DNA? Serisouly? If at least she said she recognized a DNA test and a parent/kid comparison but specially Oliver’s sequence come on…maybe not the worst contrived point of the story but the scientist in me roll his eyes.

    • John NYC says:

      RFLP patterns are distinctive. TV seems to like them over other routes, probably because of the visuals.

      If they had her say “sequence” that would be sloppy.

      • John NYC says:

        Hah. Barry said “gene sequence” but the paper showed an RFLP pattern through the back. And the two lanes matched.

        Gotta love DVRs.

  46. mac says:

    Good god, stop giving this terrible ship more publicity
    Arrow has been destroyed for good thanks to it

  47. Beth duffy says:

    I just want to say….having binging this in 4 days….I can’t think Felicity will give up on Oliver. Maybe Oliver doesn’t realize it yet, but Felicity is the only one for him.

  48. Mary says:

    It was a really bad way to give us a reason for Oliver to not be focused enough in their encounter with Vandal Savage and attempt to stop him.

  49. Julie says:

    I personally had hoped the whole son thing would never be brought up again. So to see him and have this whole thing? You know it’s the only part of the crossover that I didn’t like. Now we end up with on screen baby mama drama. I know this is the CW but I’d hoped Arrow would be spared.

    I love Oliver and Felicity together but I have in no way been clamoring for a baby. I don’t even like that Diggle has a kid.

  50. tyranthraxus says:

    What I dont understand here is that Samantha is letting Oliver into his sons life, but on the condition he cant tell anyone else or even tell the kid that OLIVER is his father. Whats to stop her simply moving on again, Oliver loses track of her, Oliver loses?

    • John NYC says:

      She knows him best from his ‘rich playboy doing the random banging of women’ thing time period: so she’s probably laying the groundwork for damage control when or if that “old” Oliver resurfaces.

      • kath says:

        Ten years ago she was a student who got pregnant from a one night stand with that womanizing playboy. She’s not exactly in the clear from what happened before herself.

        If she lets Oliver tell Felicity and Thea (William’s aunt), then there is no damage control to be done in terms of the public knowing that he’s Williams father. And if William has any brains at all (although given who is parents are, that’s iffy), he’s going to figure out that “Mommy’s friend” isn’t really Mommy’s friend since he only comes to visit William. And even if William doesn’t figure it out, there will be enough damage from seeing the guy who played with him in the scandal sits.

        Samantha’s ultimatum is either selfish or stupid or both. Oliver’s decision was just stupid.

        I can’t see anything enjoyable to watch coming out of this.

        • amb1973 says:

          Seriously, I love how she attacked him for getting girls pregnant. Um, weren’t you there too? Also LOL re the kid being dumb bc both parents are. Oliver was dumb as a rock all of season 3. I was hoping for better this season. But now the angst and DRAAAAAAMA are back and the fun is gone. Again.

          • tyranthraxus says:

            I have no issue with this storyline. I think its gonna make for a great reveal during the electoral campaign.

          • kath says:

            I’d be a happy camper if this storyline was going to be about his election campaign. But I’m afraid that they are going to use it to break up Oliver and Felicity sometimes around episode 413. Even if they get back together by the end of the season, it will be the mid-season slump in this show all over again.

          • tyranthraxus says:

            I guess I have more faith than that. I just have a theory Dark is gonna find out about them.