Arrow Oliver Felicity Challenges

Arrow EP Greg Berlanti Teases 'Biggest Emotional Story We've Ever Done,' 'Real Challenges' for Oliver/Felicity

Triple-check your DVRs now, Arrow fans, because one of the CW series’ most resonant moments will be unfolding this week, as part of the annual crossover event with The Flash.

In this year’s two-night crossover event, titled “Legends of Today” and “Legends of Yesterday,” time-hopping baddie Vandal Savage (played by Casper Crump) sets his sights on Central City barista Kendra Saunders (aka Hawkgirl), whom Barry quick-quick-quickly hides away in pal Oliver Queen’s own hometown. As a result, much of the opening hour, on The Flash, takes place on Arrow‘s turf.

The flip side proves true when Part 2 arrives on Wednesday, relocating the action from Star City to Central City, resulting in what executive producer Greg Berlanti describes as a two-hour movie versus standalone episodes.

“Because Flash was in its first year last year, we tried with each to make it still feel like a Flash episode and still feel like an Arrow episode,” Berlanti explains to TVLine. “This year, we wanted to really blend them and really make it feel like, ‘What if you were to do a two-hour film with all these characters?’ That was our focus.”

That said, he reassures, “There are elements about The Flash that still feel like The Flash, but there’s stuff in each that reflect the other… and a real centralized story that goes throughout.”

The crossover will also uncork “probably the biggest emotional story we’ve ever done on Arrow,” Berlanti teases. (Whether it has to do with the latest reappearance by Oliver’s soon-to-be-named ex-girlfriend, played by Defiance‘s Anna Hopkins, Berlanti was mum, saying only that there is a moment “very akin” to last year’s crossover, where Oliver bumped into his old flame at Jitters, still unaware that she gave birth to and has been raising his child since their forced years-ago split.)

Whatever the nature of the aforementioned “emotional” twist, coming out of this week’s crossover event and heading unto the Dec. 9 midseason finale, Berlanti warns of a new test for Oliver and Felicity.

“What’s been really exciting about the show this year has been dramatizing their relationship, and how that’s informed his journey and her journey,” the prolific producer observes. “Like any relationship, there’s going to be ups and downs and surprises and pitfalls, and they have some real challenges going into the break. but that’s probably all I should say without getting in trouble with my cohorts!” (With reporting by Vlada Gelman)

What are your predictions, gentle readers, for the “biggest emotional story” to come, as well as the “challenges” ahead for Olicity?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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84 Comments
  1. Gabe says:

    Not looking forward to the Oliver Kid plot, no more kids on Arrow no matter who the parents are!

  2. lily says:

    If they write Oliver and Felicity like they have been this season, I don’t see this being a problem. Now, if the pod people of s3 return, then that’s another issue altogether.
    Not really a fan of kids on tv shows though.

  3. A says:

    “Berlanti was mum”, I see what you did there. Why do shows still think surprise kids are a good storytelling idea? Better shows than Arrow (Gilmore Girls, Angel, etc.) have tried and failed at adding surprise children. I mean, does anyone actually want to watch a kid on Arrow? Plus, no offense, it’s really rare that you get a child actor who is actually good. Oh well, I guess I’ll hold out hope for one more day that it’s not actually Oliver’s kid.

    • Lizzie says:

      This. As soon as they introduced it in season 2 I’ve been dreading the fallout. It’s better suited to other drama shows, not Arrow. I hope it’s not Oliver’s kid either but I’m not sure they would have teased it for so long if it was just a fakeout.

    • Trish says:

      There’s already a kid on Arrow. The kid I refuse to call anything other than Digglet. Anything else is insulting and forced crap that dishonors Diggle’s own family for a plot point.

    • amb1973 says:

      Yeah, I’m not particularly worried about Oliver’s or Felicity’s reactions. I don’t think the writers will pull an April Nardini and ruin their relationship over the kid. I just don’t like surprise kid storylines, and I REALLY have no interest in a pre-teen and/or another of Oliver’s exes hanging around the show.

    • AdM says:

      It is Oliver’s kid..no doubt. I also dread having preteens/teens on TV shows…Esp if they start acting out and being obnoxious…I have no patience for that.
      But on the other hand I’m looking forward to seeing Oliver’s paternal side.

  4. aph1976 says:

    I do wonder how Oliver will react to having a kid because would he rather be a father than be than Arrow because one day he might have to choose.Plus i’m wondering if maybe Felicity learns about the kid first before Oliver does

  5. Lizzie says:

    I’ve been so so impressed with how they’ve written Olicity this season and I hope to see it continue. Challenges and ups and downs are expected in any relationship, as long as they get through it together. It should be really good to watch. I gotta be honest though, I’m not looking forward to Oliver finding out he has a kid, which I’m guessing is the start of the emotional story they’re hinting at. The kid isn’t even Connor Hawke anyway so it legit makes no sense. I’m wary of having children on the show anyway.

  6. kath says:

    It takes skill to go through a whole interview and not given any spoilers away. Well done, Berlanti.

    After the painful mess of last season, I think that this season the Oliver/Felicity relationship has been one of the best written on all TV shows (Castle, I’m looking at you) so I’m happy to be on board for the ride.

    • John NYC says:

      Castle, IMHO, has actually improved on that domestic front to my astonishment and delight but, yes, Arrow got that right from the first this season.

      For myself I don’t see a son doing anything to them of the magnitude that’s getting hinted, they’ve been portrayed as just too solid and it’s not like his known past hasn’t included far worse than a simply unknown child for which he has zero responsibility as that was all Moira’s doing (plus the mom going along with it I suppose), I’m looking more at that grave to be involved.

      • John NYC says:

        To be clear “zero rersponsibility” for the existence of the child not being known.

      • kath says:

        If it is the son popping up, I hope (expect) that it will be something that they talk about and that ends up strengthening the relationship by the end of the episode, as the fight they had about Felicity’s frantic search for Ray did.
        I’d much rather have these moments that test the relationship and that they work through in a mature, adult manner than what TV shows usually do, have them split up over something stupid and then start seeing other people.
        How do you think the grave is involved? It’s far too early to know yet who is in it.

  7. Kate says:

    The Canadian (or maybe New Zealand) clip showed Oliver basically confronting Sandra. I’m guessing that is the big emotional story coming up. Even if Felicity doesn’t blame Oliver at all (after all he didn’t know) its weird and then also hits a soft spot for her since her father left her and her mother around the age that Connor is currently. Felicity will both want Oliver to play a role in his life but also has her own jealousy issues to deal with, like that he has to have a relationship with Sandra that isn’t like the one he has with Laurel where, honestly, she is better friends with Laurel than Oliver has been and its right there under her nose. And then there is this weird thought, no matter how slow she might want to take this, she probably has this idea of a family with him and probably enjoyed the idea they would have their first child together. I imagine if she is able to vocalize these feelings (though I see them coming to Oliver via another character) might lead to a question that has been back burnered since the premiere (which is then pushed aside because Damien declares war).

    • Div says:

      New Zealand promo I believe and Oliver mentions the child’s name as William.

    • Linda says:

      Agree. Lots of emotional issues to resolve, but I feel Oliver and Felicity can successfully Logistically, I’m not sure how a child will fit into Oliver and Felicity’s lives, especially if Sandra is the one in the grave. Would Oliver tell his son that he is the Green Arrow? Will he let him be in the lair, because he didn’t let Baby Sara during season 3? Oliver and Felicity will both have demanding daytime and nighttime jobs if Oliver becomes major. Not much time to be a parent. It would even be harder if Felicity gets pregnant.

  8. amb1973 says:

    Kids on superhero/adult shows are a terrible idea. Baby Sara’s fine, bc she’s barely around, but an obnoxious pre-teen? BLECCH.

    Also, no thanks to all the upcoming angst. As far as I’m concerned, the writers used up their entire series-long allotted ration of angst in S3. I’m done with it. It’s annoying and melodramatic and boring. S3 was basically misery porn, and I am not sitting through any more of it.

  9. Trish says:

    OK, I think I’m curious now. I love some well told Olicity angst. Oliver and Felicity have been a highlight of season four for me. Also a happy place considering all the Legends setup that’s taken over Arrow since the season began. But I just don’t see how that would involve this kid. Felicity Smoak is the type of woman that would love Oliver’s kid. Simply because he’s Oliver’s and she’s a good person. It’s not like he cheated on HER to create the kid. What I find more insulting is that no one is asking if Felicity even wants kids? No one is asking that. Why is it the prevailing assumption that all women want children? If she doesn’t want kids of her own, I could see that being a reason why she would struggle with helping to raise Oliver’s son with him. I don’t know, maybe if the show ever addressed Felicity’s own abandonment issues left by her father, we could get a fully fleshed out story and some more agency for Felicity on the subject.

  10. AdM says:

    As long as Felicity of Season 3 does not return..we are ok. She was a mess! Looking forward to what they do with the Oliver/son plot.

    • amb1973 says:

      Yeah, she was weepy, but he was dumb as unbuttered toast all season. I mean hey, let’s come up with a whole plan to crash a plane to take out the villain and his virus, but leave ONE WORKING PARACHUTE right there for the villain to use. (And set the engines to explode at the end of the flight, over the populated US instead of the high plains of Nanda, when there’s very little gas to explode the plane, meaning the virus was likely to be dispersed by the non-fiery crash rather than destroyed.)

      Oh, and sure, take the word of the lying sociopathic mass murderer when he declares he didn’t kill the assassin sent to capture him. Because lying sociopathic mass murderers are…known for their honesty? (Even worse, explicitly put said lying sociopathic mass murder under your protection, not only from the League, but also from civil authorities. SO DUMB.)

      • AdM says:

        I’d rather suspend belief & take that any day over a weepy Felicity….That incessant weeping was the most grating thing of the whole season..even Laurel was a tad tolerable compared to that mess.

        • amb1973 says:

          Now that’s just crazy talk.

        • anon says:

          Are you seriously just going to come to every Arrow story on this website to trash Felicity for daring to have emotions in season 3? We get it you can’t handle women with emotions. Find a new tune already. And FYI Felicity was a freaking badass superhero in season 3, way more so than some people wearing masks. She had her emotions and she got crap done. And she’s continuing to do so. She’s awesome and all the people involved with the show and most of the fans love her and her role is only going to continue to increase on this show. So get used to it. Whine about her emotions all you want, it’s not going to change anything.

        • fan123 says:

          A woman is not a mess because she has emotions that fit the traumatic events she was dealing with and a woman who still gets stuff done and saves the day constantly while dealing with the emotions is not a mess. Good lord something is wrong with a person who will call a woman a mess because she experienced pain and reacted appropriately to it.

    • Lizzie says:

      Felicity was VP of Palmer Tech, hacker for Team Arrow and helped create the Atom suit and yet she was a mess? All because she had human emotions and expressed them. HOW DARE SHE!

      • AdM says:

        Yes and Oliver is the Arrow, beats bad guys to a pulp, always saves the city & his loved ones but he can be a complete tool at times…what’s your point?

        • Lizzie says:

          My point was that I don’t understand why she’s referred to as a mess just because she cried. If she was a crying mess who didn’t do anything else I’d kind of understand your complaint but she still held her own and did her job and helped the team as usual.

          • AdM says:

            The fact that she did her job does not negate the fact that she was a weepy mess…

          • Lizzie says:

            I’m just saying I find the idea that she’s a mess simply for showing human emotion is problematic. No one moaned this much when Barry Allen cried like a baby every other episode on The Flash. It has shades of misogyny.

  11. Smoak Arrow says:

    Can’t wait to see what they have in store for Oliver and Felicity going forward.

  12. luca cavallaro says:

    We know oliver will propose to felicity in 4×9 so they’ll face this storyline like an healty couple

  13. Kate says:

    Also, for certain spoiler or real detailed story line direction information, generally the most reliable information comes from Guggenheim or Mericle.

  14. A says:

    While I do think Felicity would love the kid- if he is Oliver’s! (but we haven’t heard of him filming since and the cast is awful at keeping secrets on social media, so….. lol)- because he’s part of Oliver, there is probably going to be a part of her brain that thinks Oliver should be closer to him, physically and emotionally and she might think a GF would get in the way of that (obviously she’s wrong!). Obviously because of her own father issues. This will probably also feed into the storyline if it is Felicity’s father joining in 4×12. As for emotional ‘angst’ leading into the break…..i’m guessing it has something to with the spoilers we got over the last few weeks. Less angst, more emotional lol

    If they carry on writing the Olicity relationship how they have this season, an actual adult relationship with ups and downs, then I think they’ll be alright.

  15. Gale says:

    Love Oliver and Felicity. Don’t mind challenges, they are part and parcel of relationships. Olicity has been amazingly written so far and as long as the Arrow writers continue in that vein this should be entertaining. Agree with the “ughs” on the kid/baba mama drama. Not a fan of kids on shows. Too many memories of them ruining my favorites (Gilmore Girls, Angel, etc.)

  16. liame says:

    A little Arrow with Super Duper strenght that can kick his Aunties arse.

  17. Fosho says:

    The writing for Olicity has been mature, realistic and believable thus far. Im not worried about baby mama coming into the picture if the writing continues in the sane vein. I’m not really interested in seeing a kid that’s, what 7 or 8 years old, on the show. Will we be taking time out to see Oliver at PTA meetings? Not feeling any excitement for that. I’m gonna try to have faith the writers will handle this story well and it will serve Oliver and Felicity as characters and the story.

    • John NYC says:

      Felicity could turn him into a nice little hacker. Having a few occasional scenes of him at a keyboard would be tolerable if well lit.

  18. I don’t think Oliver being a father will be a challenge for Olicity. Felicity has been abandoned by her father so she will be supportive… whatever I’m curious (not overexcited but curious) about this storyline. We’ll see…

  19. Lizzie says:

    You know the Baby Mama wasn’t a forced split, right? It was either a one night thing or just a fling but there was no forced split because he was with Laurel at the time. He cheated on Laurel with her.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      Sorry. “Forced split” was a succinct way of saying “Oliver’s mother Moira secretly met with the girl to pay her off to get out of town and never reveal that she got pregnant as a result of the fling/affair with her son Oliver.”

      • Lizzie says:

        Haha. Ok! Fair enough.

        • amb1973 says:

          Such a despicable thing to do. “My baby daddy is a dumb douche” is so not sufficient justification to keep the existence of the baby from him. And Moira, jeez Moira.

          • John NYC says:

            Like her judgement issues weren’t sort of settled with the whole destroy the Glades thing?

          • amb1973 says:

            Yeah, already knew Moira was bad (but interesting). Baby Mama is awful.

          • To be fair, it was either take the money and use it to give her baby the best life possible, or try to tell Oliver, be sued by Moira’s army of lawyers, smeared by the press, subject the kid to a lifetime of gossip and all for the vague possibility of getting a degenerate philanderer to act as a father (unlikely).

      • brenna says:

        Actually, Oliver knew about the pregnancy, but Moira paid Sandra to say she lost the baby. It was one of Moira’s last scenes on the show when Oliver told her about the miscarriage.

  20. pem says:

    Maybe the child’s mother is married, and William has been raised to believe “that” man is his father. It’d be kind of traumatic for the kid to get a “new” father all of a sudden. Perhaps Oliver (and Felicity) have to figure out what’s best for the kid, plus all the “Arrow danger” stuff.

  21. datdudemurphy says:

    Hopefully the kid brings an end to the awfulness of “Olicity”

    Let it die.

    • amb1973 says:

      Keep dreaming. The network obviously knows what sells and the writers know what they like to write. (Also, Oliver was banging Baby Mama on the side when he was with Laurel, not Felicity. This news is more of a blow to that already-dead relationship than to his relationship with Felicity.)

      • datdudemurphy says:

        I’ll keep hope alive…. maybe someday the show will be watchable again.

        • Lizzie says:

          Olicity has barely been in the episodes this season. It’s all subtle in the background stuff for the most part. Letting it affect your enjoyment of everything else is just sad.

    • Anna says:

      I second this. I am really disappointed that they have chosen to add this to the cross over episodes as I was looking forward to watching these (mainly due to the Flash and Legends of tomorrow) but now….
      I stopped watching Arrow regularly because of this Olicity stuff, and the writers have to add it to the one episode I was thinking of watching. So disappointed.

  22. jj says:

    Olicity and Felicity needs to go. Vanish from the show please.

  23. brenna says:

    I don’t mind emotional, but please no long running angst! The show is handling the Olicity relationship so well this season as well as the rest of the show. I really hope this doesn’t cause too much drama.

    • flarrow says:

      me too. i waited too long for them to be together to make anything at all destroy them. its an aspect of the show i look forward to. i dont want to see oliver with anyone else but felicity it would break me sooo bad

  24. Drew says:

    If Connor’s mother is the one in the grave, it will be a huge ripoff. Yeah, Oliver would be hit hard by having a kid to deal with, but the flash forward promises us an important death, not a new character. They’d better not try to sell us some barely-existent character’s death, just to avoid paying off the buildup.
    As for surprise kids, I don’t think it really counts here. We’ve known about the kid for years. He exists in the comic books. The only one who should be surprised is Oliver, and judging by the way he lived his life before, I think it would be a bigger surprise if he *didn’t* have some kids out there.
    As for how this impact’s Felicity’s life… I don’t care. There are better stories out there for her to explore. The domestic stuff is boring, and the last thing I need on this show is a Maury Povich episode.

    • amb1973 says:

      The kid is not Connor, and baby mama is not Sandra. The EPs have made that very clear. (He’s also not Robert, obviously, Shado’s kid.) He’s not a comics canon character, so I have no idea why they’re going through with it. Hopefully he stays in CC except for occasional off-camera visits.

      • John NYC says:

        They’ve actually very strongly avoided naming the mother at all. Maybe just to mess with viewers but otherwise; maybe not.

        • amb1973 says:

          I guess she could be Sandra, but the kid is not Connor. Guggie and LoT casting have confirmed this kid is not Connor. (I think they wanted him to be Connor, but people flipped out over the whitewashing.) I think they should make the kid not actually his, Dean Winchester-style, and drop it. Kids on this show would be a disaster…I don’t even want an O/F baby unless it’s at the end of the final season.

  25. Geeta Mungal says:

    I think it would be Felicity who would tell Oliver about his kid since she told him about his mom and Thea. Too me that would be the best way to bring in the child.

  26. Jared says:

    I’m sorry but the only way I would care about Oliver’s “secret love child” is if they somehow weave them Into the superhero mythology of Arrow(Flashbacks/Flashforwards)or want to make them apart of the team long term. But I could care less if they make the kid angst ridden about growing up without a dad. That plot has been over done too many times. With that said, Arrow and The Flash are probably the best genre shows on TV so I trust Greg Berlanti and his team…I hope.

  27. Luvsumtv says:

    Olicity is the endgame!!

  28. Justine Grey says:

    Not entirely sure how a child that was conceived before Oliver and Felicity even knew each other could be a challenge to their relationship but I have no worries. They can make it through any challenge together.

  29. pblo78 says:

    What if… the body in the grave is Oliver´s ex, mother of his son…

  30. Hope says:

    I have as just wondering how old is this kid of his? ,he has been back for about 4 years, and he was on the island for 5 years .

  31. Arrowfan says:

    Yes, can’t wait for more Olicity! They are the best! Can’t wait to see them get through all this stuff even stronger too!

  32. herman1959 says:

    Oh no, that would be too heavy…now, the mother would work.

  33. PennyLane says:

    Excited to see how Felicity and Oliver deal with finding out he has a kid and the development it will bring to their relationship but overall not that excited about the actual kid.I have no desire to see Oliver as a father or to see a 10 year old on arrow.I don’t even think we will see that,I doubt they would bring a kid on as a regular or even put him in too many episodes.

    • kath says:

      Even if the kid is Oliver’s I doubt he’ll be on the show.
      I’m expecting the mother to tell Oliver that her son is happy and she doesn’t want him in the kid’s life. Oliver, knowing he’s in danger, will agree but it will be heartbreaking for him. And we don’t hear about the kid again until they pull him in as a plot device in season 7.

      • PennyLane says:

        I think so too.I figured they will just mention Oliver doing suff with him offscreen if Oliver decides to be in his life but I would like it if Oliver saw the kid was happy and decided not to mess with that.

  34. cmmorgan32 says:

    Not surprised they’re pulling the trigger on this reveal (especially in the middle of Oliver’s mayoral campaign). It was virtually inevitable when you think about the impact it would have on Oliver’s campaign, relationship w/ Darhk, etc. I could certainly see them killing off the kid or even the mother. Build them up enough to show their importance to Oliver and then kill them off to provide the catalyst for the grave scene (they certainly have plenty of time).

  35. I love the arrogance of all of you deciding what is and isn’t good television as if you each are the single authority on the matter.

  36. flarrow says:

    i reaally love this show like 200%. i may not be one of those fans that know every single detail but i know the show is apart of me now and i dont care what felicity and oliver has to go through as long as they make it. i dont think its fair if its even possible that he will lose her after he lost so much already. they deserve to get married and be happy no matter the circumstances.

  37. Barry saw the past and told Oliver that it brought heartache to him and Felicity if he kept secrets from her.In the present Oliver has not asked Barry yet about a DNA so there was no fight or breakup they go home Felicity knows something is bothering him and the mature couple that they are they will work it out together…….He will tell her the truth when he finds out he is William,s father because that,s who he is now.