Post Mortems
Arrow Season 4 Spoilers

Arrow EPs on Oliver's Failed Proposal, a Flashback Twist and That Killer Ending

Warning: The following contains spoilers from Wednesday’s Arrow Season 4 premiere.

It seems you can go home again, and Oliver did that in more ways than one — not all of it willingly — in Arrow‘s Season 4 premiere. 

While he and girlfriend Felicity were lured back to Star City in the present day, Flashback Oliver was captured by Amanda Waller in Coast City and sent back to a familiar terrain to assess a threat: Lian Yu!

Back in Star City, Damien Darhk’s reign of terror unveiled a surprising (but reluctant?) alliance between the new Big Bad and Captain Lance.

But the biggest shock came at the close of the season opener, which found Oliver getting a visit from The Flash‘s Barry Allen as the former vigilante stood over a grave six months later (in show time, per the producers), vowing to “kill him.” (I guess we know whether they’re dressed for a funeral or wedding now.) The reveal came after present day Oliver had broadcast a message to the city’s citizens as Green Arrow, proclaiming about finding light in the darkness.

Below, showrunners Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle talk about the upcoming death, what awaits Oliver on the island, that thwarted engagement and much more.

RIP, WHOEVER YOU ARE | Somebody is definitely dead — “It’s not a fake-out,” Guggenheim confirms, while keeping mum on whether the producers know who is in that cemetery plot — and he or she will stay that way, despite the existence of Nanda Parbat’s magical hot tub. “We want to bring stakes back to the show, and so, we’ll be finding a way to handle the Lazarus Pit… in a new, inventive way that I can’t reveal,” Mericle shares. “But it’ll be cool.” Adds Guggenheim: “It’ll feel organic and very earned. It’s actually very elegant.”

BACK TO THE ISLAND | Proving Lian Yu might really be Fantasy Island — “We’ve always said that there’s actually a hotel on the other side of the island they don’t know about,” Guggenheim jokes — Oliver will meet and “fall in love with” Elysia Rotaru’s character on the isle. “He’s also going to encounter a lot of magic and mysticism,” Mericle adds. “That is going to inform what he is dealing with in Star City in the present day with Damien Darhk.”

Arrow Season 4 SpoilersA DARHK ALLIANCE | Even though Lance agreed to work for Damien, “you’ll see later in the season that he did not know what he was necessarily signing up for,” Mericle previews. “We’re going to play it really as a crisis for Lance in terms of why he chose to do it and what it means for him. He’s always been the moral center of the show and someone who’s lorded his morality over Oliver’s. When this all comes to a head, it’s going to be very interesting to see how those two characters work it out.”

PUT A RING ON IT | While Oliver’s proposal got interrupted by Thea and Laurel’s arrival, his desire to pop the question to Felicity is significant — as is his hiding the ring once they return to Star City. While breaking the premiere, executive producer Greg Berlanti planted the seed by saying, “‘I wish there was some way we could dramatize where their relationship was,'” Guggenheim recounts. “Wendy and I were like, ‘Well…’ When we threw it out, I don’t think either one of us really thought Greg would go for it. Greg was like, ‘That’s awesome! Totally do that!’

“It does dramatize, in a very clear way, not only where they are,” Guggenheim continues, “but when Oliver hides the ring, essentially, we’re also dramatizing the fact that, OK, he’s with Felicity, they’re together, but things are not the same as they were back in Ivy Town.”

Arrow Season 4 SpoilersSECRET KEEPERS | Dig’s decision to keep his knowledge of H.I.V.E. and its connection to Andy’s death from the team is “tied to his inability to make any headway,” Mericle explains. “It’s his brother’s murder that he’s been trying to solve, and the fact that he himself has been unable to get anywhere has made him feel slightly ashamed. Also, he’s run into so many dead ends. There hasn’t been anywhere for him to go until now. He will eventually talk about it, but up until this point, there hasn’t been a lot of reason to do so.” Meanwhile, it’s not lost on the producers that the show’s most upright citizens, Dig and Lance, are both keeping major secrets. “It’s cool to see Oliver finally have a little moral high ground to stand on, and it’s also interesting to see both of those characters go to a dark place,” Mericle says. “They’ve both been through a lot of things, but we haven’t really seen Dig have to, for lack of a better term, dig deep to find out what he’s capable of in the name of finding out about his brother. It’s a cool thing to take these characters on this journey and see where they end up and to really challenge them in that way.”

FULL THROTTLE THEA | After getting a little taste of the Lazarus Pit’s side effects in the season opener, Thea’s restraint-free behavior will be explored more heavily in upcoming episodes. “We’re going to acknowledge very directly, ‘Like, wait a second, she went into the Lazarus Pit back in Episode 320. It’s been six months. Why is it only showing up now?'” Guggenheim promises.

Arrow fans, what did you think of the Season 4 premiere? Who’s your pick for the death? (My money’s on Lance, with Lyla — but please, dear God, don’t let it be her — in second place.)

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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519 Comments
  1. Wee says:

    If that is Felicity in that grave I will be making a call to the Arrow producers.

    • Morgan Payne says:

      ME TOO

    • Liz1 says:

      Same. I bet we’re just meant to think it’s her though. Raises the tension a bit!

    • peanut says:

      Moi, aussi. I do not think I can go through another season of that. Can’ t they find somethung else to do besides kill people.

      • N says:

        It IS a show about superheroes. People die

        • peterwdawson says:

          Yeah but people also DON’T die.

        • It’s a fantasy world. For decades characters rarely died in comics. Now death is an overused plot device. Superheroes can be however you write them.

          I agree with peanut, I want to watch a show about characters. A good show uses the external elements to dress up something more real like personal struggles, relationships, and social issues. That’s what Arrow has always been about at the core, Olly’s evolution with his internal issues and relationships. When you kill a character you end all of their potential, in evolving relationships as well as evolving character development.

          Violent-fantasy death has become a cheap plot device. If we’re going to have a death, how about something a little more relatable like a battle with a disease… something you can explore the character through the process of, as well as something relevant to the human experience. I’ve known people who have died, but being under 40, it’s not something that happens very often and even more rarely to people close to me. It shouldn’t happen just to make the point that there are stakes. We’ve seen enough on the show already to know there are stakes. The show should evolve with Olly’s evolution.

          • niti says:

            well you got a point, but the compare is off. You arent a superhero so thats why people arount you arent dead (hopefully they will live long enough). I really hope Laurel die.. I mean if Felicity is about to die they cant just show you the end of the movie. ( Like knowing something to happen and waiting for it. I believe Felicity wont die and that was just someone else and to make us believe the person who is dead is Felicity and make it more interesting).

      • Justin C says:

        I think we’re going to see the whole time travel and the Legends of Tomorrow start to play out. I’m sure Felicity’s (Or whoever’s) death will come into play with that, and probably be avoided somehow.

    • Kiara says:

      Me too!

    • datdudemurphy says:

      Me too.
      I’ll have to thank them

    • Maria says:

      No more arrow for me😪😩 if My Felicity dies.

    • ThatGuy984 says:

      All of you can go and take felicity with you….she ruined this show in season 3..hopefully they can make a comeback from the crap that was the second half of season 3

      • Cobalt says:

        Um, Felicity is a character written by the writers/showrunners, she didn’t ruin anything, they did, including her. Season 3 was a $%^#show all around, and I can only hope they’ve learned from the fan and critic response to their mistakes and will do better in S4.

      • Thomas says:

        Felicity ! You Have Failed This Series!!!

        • AlexAbout says:

          Since when and how? OLIVER the jacktard’s the one who’s failed it — but worse, blame Guggentroll the Lame, who apparently can’t write a female character for crap. Come to think of it, he was lousy with Oliver last season, too.

          • Emily says:

            I find it funny how most male fans hate olicity and felicity and how most female fans love olicity and felicity

      • For your information, Emily Bett Rickards as Felicity Smoak, and also the Olicity relationship has given the show it’s high ratings! Most of the show’s viewers are the fans of Felicity, and her love relationship with Oliver! All of you that keeps saying Felicity ruined the show, she didn’t ruin it, she has made it a lot better! I can tell you right now that if Laurel and Oliver had wound up together, the show wouldn’t have had a season 2! The Lauriver relationship was nothing but crap, and disgustingly boring! OMG! I also get sick & tired of people who brings up the comics! Because if the relationship between The Green Arrow & Laurel Lance is meant to be, and suppose to be so great, then why did they divorce? That’s so ridiculously stupid! Another thing, Laurel is so very annoying as heck, she cried, and boo hooed for 2 1/2 seasons, and the Lauriver fans want to talk about Felicity in season 3????? I mean really? People that doesn’t like Felicity are always talking about how much she cried in S3! Let me just ask ya’ll this, if this was reality, not a tv show, wouldn’t ya’ll be worried, crying/cried if the person you love was in trouble, thought to be dead, and thought you’d never see them alive ever again, wouldn’t you cry and cry???? I mean, people are just running off at the mouth, & upset that Laurel & Oliver are not together like they’re suppose to be in the comics!!! Blah! Blah! Blah! Blah! Laurel really gets under my skin, especially when she took Sara to Nanda Parbat! She always thinks she knows everything, and don’t know squat! Yeah, I really would love for Laurel to croak, but if not her, her daddy!!!!!

        • Emily says:

          I LOVE THAT COMEBACK BUT… I LOVED LAUREL AND I STILL DO… SORRY FOR THE CAPS… I ALWAYS WRITE IN CAPS BY ACCIDENT AND THEN IM TOO LASY TO CHANGE IT… AND IM BABBLING…

          • Lex says:

            Re: comment about male fans hating Felicity and female fans loving her: damn straight. I did my senior thesis on the gender divide in fandom, using Arrow as my case study. I wanted to love Laurel, but she was the weakest link. Fanboys believed she was the One True Canary because her first name was Dinah, but Sara embodied everything the Black Canary represented in the comics. Maybe if Laurel had been put on a bus to Gotham and Sara stayed in Starling as the Black Canary season 3 (and subsequently season 4) would have been better.
            .
            Oliver would still tend to be a noble idiot, but Sara would have definitely told him being buddies with Malcolm and/or Ra’s were new levels of stupidity even Ollie hadn’t reached. Season 4 was a hot mess because season 3 was a hot mess, and the producers wrote themselves into a corner on so many levels (“Hey! Let’s kill someone, but figure out who’s dead later! Isn’t that brilliant plotting?!?!?!”).
            .
            Laurel had to be the one to die, because she served no purpose in Oliver’s wider hero’s journey, but her last episodes soured me to the character even further by throwing Tommy under the bus and pretending that the Laurel/Oliver relationship was anything other than toxic. Cuddling and “thinking about the future” before Tommy’s even cold in the grave? I have never been so disgusted with Laurel and Oliver.
            .
            The narrative describing Laurel’s season 2 depression stemming from Tommy’s death (he was the LOVE of her LIFE, right??) was proven to be bull—-. She was drinking and depressed because she realized what a horrible person she’d been to Tommy. Without Oliver’s new goal to stop killing in Tommy’s name, Laurel had nothing to do but drink herself into oblivion to avoid the guilt she should be feeling and processing. Instead of being empowered to change her life for the better like Oliver (and like Iris after Eddie died), Laurel just went deeper into the bottle.
            .
            There was always a huge difference between the Laurel the writers thought they were creating and the Laurel people saw on screen, and nowhere was this more evident than in her last episodes. She’d garnered some level of my respect by setting herself up as something other than Oliver’s love interest, but the woman who still thought he was “the love of her life” was someone I was kind of glad to see go, because she was so incredibly far from the character she could have been if contractual obligations and canonical agendas were pushed aside to tell a better story.
            .
            Laurel the Black Canary was a tragedy of wasted effort. Laurel the Legal Eagle to Team Arrow and Sara’s supportive sister would have had something to offer the team no one else could give. Instead, she was the Lesser Canary, and a cautionary tale about the weaknesses of Strong Female Characters.

    • french5851 says:

      It’s not Felicity… her character is needed in too many plot lines. Remember Ray Palmer is not dead, he is the Atom and will be doing the Legends show, he has to come back via his company first, right? Who else is going to figure that out but Felicity. I think it is Thea, because they are going to be exploring why the L. pit shouldn’t be used. And the character plot is just dangling on one thread… hec they even took away her cool apartment.

    • Kyle O says:

      Good. Olicity campers are ruining the show. Go watch ABC Family if you want lovey dovey stories that deviate from source material. Green Arrow belongs with Black Canary.

      • Jordan says:

        Do you watch The Flash? The Flash completely changes everything. Since the reverse Flash came back and moved the Flashs story years into advance, it completely changes both universes since Arrow is connected.
        This is not the same DC universe. Anything can happen! Barry might not end up with Iris. (Remember that newspaper in the Reverse flash’s room was from an alternate reality). Green Arrow might not end up with Black Canary.

      • Leila says:

        Calls Olicity fans campers and want him with Black Canary? Why won’t you go watch ABC family then if you want your precious little couple from the comics. Gosh, you comic fans do nothing but whiiiiine all the time.

        • AshleyR says:

          Haha…this always cracks me up. These Arrow/BC fans that want to throw two characters together that are so horrible when they are around each other just to make their small fandom happy and then call us crazy shippers for wanting a mature and healthy relationship to grow boogles my mind. :D

      • Caroline says:

        Actually ABC Family is called freeform now (or soon), just saying.

      • Liz1 says:

        Of course Olicity is ruining the show. That’s why the episode just received it’s best premiere rating since the Pilot. OKAY.

      • lonestarjrs says:

        Well said …. but in that case original Black Canary (Sarah) def not laurel

      • Kortney says:

        Why the canary why not Felicity is it because she is simple and down to earth like most every girl with beautiful hearts of course the hot bad ass chick always gets the hot hero,, what not this time,, in my opinion it should be Felicity because it shows that the simple girls can have the guys no one would ever think they could get just by being herself,, now with that being said arrow is a badass show never read the comics but unfotiantly the show isn’t a comic,, its a show for all types of fan base..

        • Umm! Some people needs to get their eyes checked! Because Katie Cassidy/Laurel Lance is most definitely not hot, she looks sickly, ugly, and skinny as a toothpick! Her looks has deteriorated drastically! Katie Cassidy sucks at being an actress, and most definitely as Laurel Lance/The Black Canary! Capital SUCKS!

        • I love this comment! I feel the same way as you do! Felicity is beautiful, she deserves Oliver, and she’s the only 1 who has stayed right there beside him when he needed a push, comfort, encouragement, and etc.! Why can’t the smart, & genius girl (nerd) have the hot, & sexy guy! (quarterback) To me Emily Bett Rickards/Felicity Smoak is more beautiful than Katie Cassidy/Laurel Lance!

    • Elle says:

      If that’s felicity I’m gonna kill someone and its probably gonna be the arrow producers

    • Heather says:

      I will be calling them to thank them for finally ridding the show of the one thing that consistently ruins it even when the stories are good.

    • Mia says:

      I hate to say it but If that’s Felicity’s grave then i’m so done with this show! it will simply be too dark without my favorite character.

    • AshleyR says:

      Felicity bring so much publicity to the show. There is no way she will die. Olicity and Felicity have article and win polls for the show…no way is the producers and CW that stupid. The ONLY reason they would do this is if they legally have to make Arrow/BC a couple and even then DC would give that up to keep the show around and on air. The only way that relationship makes sense is if Felicity is dead and Oliver grieves for a long time. In the end…no way it’s Felicity unless she’s not really dead and this is just a fake out.

    • Domino says:

      Me Too and there would be no more Arrow Tv in this house!!

    • kenzi says:

      first thing I thought when I saw that episode

    • Kortney says:

      Agreed

    • Me Also! Yeah, they all better go in hiding underground!

    • Jacqueline Green says:

      Felicity is one of my favorite don’t want her killed that sucks

  2. @tvneuroepi says:

    It’s probably Diggle (if he gets closure on his brother’s death, his arc is essentially done) but I’m hoping for someone else.

  3. Lysh says:

    I’m so shaken by the end. Everything about this episode makes it seems like Felicity but I’ll be so mad.
    Great episode though! I can’t believe how much I missed this show. And I’m so anxious to see what mystical things are happening on Lian Yu.

  4. Tobias says:

    I hope it’s Felicity in that grave… I want to see the shippers reactions!!

    Maybe finally Olicity will die off? *crosses fingers*

    • Lex says:

      Wow, the Felicity hate shows up after only four comments! I’m impressed with the tenacious way you completely ignore everything the show has set up for Oliver’s hero’s journey!

      • Tobias says:

        eh..

        I just want more action.. less Days of our lives.

        • datdudemurphy says:

          Amen

        • sabretruthtiger says:

          But felicity in those tight dresses, c’mon….

          • tark says:

            Another reason why she needs to go, her wardrobe sucks. There’s nothing sexy about her and she’s not alone in that department.

        • ChuckvsArrow says:

          What do you mean less Days of our lives, it always had a soap opera feel to it with the sister swapping, secret child, sleeping with best friends, I could go on.

          • John NYC says:

            Heroe on “the galaxies most lethal island” finds, not one, but TWO incredibly hot women to fall in love with?

            Hmmm. does that hotel have a website?

          • AshleyR says:

            These Olicity haters are totally illogically. One minute they compain S3 was too much drama, when by in large it was way less soap opera than S1 and S2. Next they say olicity is ruining the show and drama filled Arrow/BC should be together. Get your story straight!!

        • Liz1 says:

          Uh, did you not see the episode? There was plenty of action. As for the soap comment, this show has always been a soap since day one.

    • Liz1 says:

      Olicity were the best they’ve ever been in tonight’s episode. I can’t get over how amazing they were together. They’d be mental to kill that off. :)

      • Tobias says:

        The Olicity scenes made me want to vomit.

        • aunni says:

          guess olicity is here to stay…..see u later loser

        • Liz1 says:

          Oh, that’s a shame for you. I thought they were incredible together.

        • Melissa says:

          Probably cause your an jerk! Or you are jealous knowing you could never have a love like that!! If Oliver doesn’t have a love story to mix up his brain a little than the show would be pretty boring. They are a TEAM inside work and outside, which is how a relationship/marriage should be. :)

        • sabretruthtiger says:

          Don’t hate yourself because you’re gay, just come out publicly, I’ve heard it’s quite trendy now.

        • Excuse me? Olicity scenes make you want to vomit? Wow! You must have no love in your life?! Because the only scenes I’ve seen that made me want to vomit is back in season 1 when Oliver was with Laurel! Now that was a vomiting moment, oh and seeing Ray Palmer on the salmon ladder in season 2!! Ugh! I tell you what the only drama is the way Laurel goes on, and everything is about her! Boo! Hoo! She’s already made it all about her when she brought Sara back to life! Sara was going around trying to kill girls that looked like Thea, and even tried killing Thea! Oliver getting on to her about what she did, and we had to here the same old, sad story, ME! ME! Blah!

    • rebecca brewer says:

      No!!!!!!

    • Me says:

      But then I’d lose my snack break time… :(

    • MFL says:

      You and me both..Olicity needs to just die!

      • sabretruthtiger says:

        You’d prefer he go with a man, how…er….progressive….

        • Comeon says:

          All your comments are homophobic, you realize that right? I saw it on several threads, and it’s disgusting.
          People are saying they dislike olicity, you tell them then Oliver will have to bang a man, where is the logic in that? Your homophobia is rampant is distressful.

    • Kafiyahbelloi@yahoo.com says:

      Amen, I do like Emily Bett Rickards though, but Felicity can go. Their gushiness was terrible and took away from Arrow for me.

    • James D says:

      I’m with you Tobias, sorry Olicity fans. I love Emily and I love’d Felicity for the first 2 1/2 seasons but then they decided to turn the show into daytime soap and I’m really sorry but it just makes my eyes roll with every Olicity scene, I think a lot of it is like Tobias I’ve read the comics and i just want to see more of that and less relationship drama and more of Black Canary I know I’m in the minority but I really enjoyed Laurel last season and this episode would love to see her get more of an arc akin to some of her comic stories. just my opinion no hate intended.

      • Chad says:

        What’s with the apostrophe in loved?

      • James D says:

        oops stupid pinky finger it loves the the apostrophe and i just don’t have the heart to take it away from it :)

      • I agree I abseloutly love Laurel she’s my favorit character on the show, she’s strong smart and beutiful and she can fight i loved her even back in season 1 and i think she has proven herself as a hero something she already was before she became the black canary and she’s a complex well rouned and developed character who hasn’t had the best luck yet people refuse to see her for the strong female lead/character that she is and hate on her for no good reason yet think it’s okay to hate on Laurel but not Felicity who is underdeveloped and spent most of season 3 crying, i can’t understand how people can still hate on Laurel i for one think she’s important to the show her scenes with Quintin are some of the best on the show

        • Liz1 says:

          Why do you have to hate on Felicity just to build up Laurel? Unnecessary, imo. Just accept not everyone likes the same character as you.

          • Guest says:

            I never said i hated Felicity i just didn’t like her last season because she spent most of the time crying whining, i actually thought she was okay in the premiere execpt for her relationship, but guess what not everyone likes Felicity

          • Liz1 says:

            Exactly. I’m under no illusions that everyone likes Felicity but I accept that. You basically spent a whole comment knocking her down because not everyone likes your favourite character. It’s sad.

          • ChuckvsArrow says:

            Preach it

        • OMG! Ya’ll must have fallen asleep while watching season 1 & 2? Because OMG! Laurel cried and whined for 2 1/2 seasons straight! What’s up with that? Laurel can not fight neither, she is a complete failure at being the Black Canary!

      • Anonym says:

        You cant be serious Laurels character is the most annoying and hateful on the show, i really hope it is hers tombstone. But yeah as a comic fan i can see that the black cannery don’t get killed, and she end up with Oliver in every story mode made. Even i like the normal B. Cannery. This is just a bitch no offense to the actor she is doing a great acting but don’t really like Arrow Laurels personality….. So pls let it be Laurel. I will still stay tuned til we figure who is gonna die at least. :)

      • Oh you must have loved seeing Laurel get her butt beat all the time! Because she sure didn’t fight good, and even now she’s OK at fighting, not the best that’s for sure! I tell ya’ll what, whoever likes Laurel surely has some really bad taste when it comes to actresses, and in certain female characters! Katie Cassidy/Laurel Lance/Black Canary SUCKS!

    • Murica! says:

      I would be so happy if felicity dies!! No more ollicity BS!!

      • MFL says:

        I’m with you there but unfortunately I don’t think Felicity will die. Oliver would be considerably much more upset to the point of a mental breakdown if Felicity dies. I’m pretty sure..this will be Lance or a character we’ve not been introduced to yet.

    • Noma says:

      You’re going to be disappointed I think….. I bet Laurel is in the grave, no one likes her.

  5. I think it’s Sara’s grave.

    • Mary says:

      No, it’s not Sara’s grave. It does seem likely to be Felicity since they went from the image of the engagement ring in the bowl to Oliver standing by the grave, but it could be someone else though.

    • Keefe says:

      It’s not Sara’s grave since Sara is part of the Legends of Tomorrow which premieres in the spring.

    • DarkDefender says:

      And that grace was fresh..

    • John NYC says:

      Well, yes, I guess they could be digging/have dug her up for the ceremony that restores her which would explain the fresh dirt. But that doesn’t seem to explain Oliver’s emotions. He’s already killed Ra’s so Sara’s been avenged.

    • Mike says:

      I think they’ll save her 4th death for another season, but maybe a Sara death a season is now something in her contract lol.

      But seeing as she’s in Legends and thats midseason and this looks like a midseason finale funeral, I’m think she’s safe.

      The candidates tho: Felicity, Diggle, Laurel, Thea, and Cpt. Lance.

      I’m gonna say its not Felicity – he’d be broken if it was and like others said, even if it were Zoom, Barry would be there – plus the whole “the most obvious choice is the wrong one” thing.

      Diggle – if his story concludes with him avenging his brother, mending his relationship with Oliver, and going out like a hero I can see his death having that kind of impact on Oliver, also it could be the the segue for “Mr. Terrific” to enter, tho that could be said for anyone dying giving the same opportunity. So, I guess its medium-high that it could be Dig.

      Laurel – her death would heavily influence Oli, if this season is about her becoming a true hero, I can see her making the ultimate sacrifice. I can picture her making use of the Canary Cry to collapse a H.I.V.E. structure from doing something horrible. And perhaps seeing her sister and Thea going through the after effects of the Lazarus pit could be a reason they don’t revive her that way. But unless theres some real interaction between her and Oliver between now and the midseason finale I’m going to hold off judgement. Likelihood – medium

      Thea – Shes “died” before and going through the Lazarus pit once, might be all she can go through. Certainly this would crush Oliver, which is why I think the reaction was a bit too light for losing the last of his family. I think the season will concentrate on the changes the Lazarus pit has on Thea, and thus she’ll be used as an example of why NOT to use the pit. I think whoever dies will go out like a hero, thus making it “easier” to not use the pit on them as they would have sacrificed themselves without regretting it (ala the murders of Sara and Thea making their deaths less fair). Thus the death needs to be for a character that can be provided closure. Likelihood – medium-low.

      Which leads me to Cpt Lance – I think the whole “He’s working for Dahrk” is a big red flag that he’ll have to redeem himself in some way at the latter end of this arc. Which means he’ll probably be cause for some really horrific stuff and thus lead him to make the heroic sacrifice and ending his grudge with Oliver. This season is about Light and Dark, and Dig and Lance are the two that think Oliver is “Dark” right now, thus with his death he’ll see that GA is the light that can save Star City. Likelihood – High

  6. Daniel P says:

    It’s neither Felicity Thea or Diggle. I wouldn’t rule out Lance or Laurel though.

    • Beth says:

      Now I would be totally fine with Laurel my least favorite character!

    • I honestly think that the only person on the team besides Oliver that’s safe is Laurel.

      And if that *is* Felicity’s grave (nononoPLEASEno), I will hurt someone.

    • Brad says:

      If it was felicity wouldn’t Barry Not miss it

      • Mary says:

        If he was busy dealing with Zoom, like he said he was then he didn’t really have a choice.

      • Bobby says:

        Well if he has to save a whole city from Zoom maybe

      • Alichat says:

        Like others said, Zoom kept him away. But I think the more important question is who’s funeral would Barry come to after a battle with Zoom? I can’t see him coming in for Laurel, Lance, or even Diggle really. I could see him coming for Thea’s funeral…..to support Oliver…but the most logical answer is Felicity. Then again, it’s possible this death was a sacrifice in some way or caused by Oliver in some way, and they chose Barry to be Oliver’s support to make us believe it’s Felicity in the grave. Red herring and all.

        I just rationalized that theory into a circle.

        • Kevin says:

          The thing is he only showed up for a couple of minutes to give his condolonscence and left. If it was felicity he would have been as distraught as oliver. It just seemed that he was there for oliver. So it probably was lance who died redeeming himself for working with Damien dahrk

          • Liz1 says:

            I’m leaning to Lance too. He’ll redeem himself near the end of the season after working with DD and then sacrifice himself for Oliver.

          • Lex says:

            Lance will do something incredible to support Oliver’s mission, redeeming himself and the team for being a jerkwad. Oliver and Lance will come to an accord and express mutual respect… and Lance will do something noble and die. The single tear Oliver sheds would be appropriate as an indicator of his guilt, and because he let Lance die his self-confidence and moral certainty would be shaken: maybe he really is as terrible as Lance was saying in this episode… Lance the jerkwad was right, I’m terrible, my single tear indicates how I’m feeling about the death, not necessarily the person, and my buddy Barry’s here because he knows how hard I’m taking everything. Therefore I’m going to go all Dirty Harry and make everything associated with Damien Darhk burn instead of seeking a mental health professional like I should have years ago.

        • Dj says:

          Barry didnt seem to be that broken up which could mean he was going to the funereal as a supportive friend. Since its 6 months from now Barry might want to be at the funeral of his teammate father. Oliver talking about the darkness he brings is what Lance accused him of doing. Oliver would blame himself for Lance working with the big bad and bring that darkness to Lance.

        • Evan says:

          It is not Lance!! I don’t see Oliver being brought to tears by the death of Cpt.Lance!

    • Stephanie says:

      I swear if they kill off Felicity I’m so done!!! I love the show and I love Stephen he’s amazing, but haven’t they done enough to hurt his character in that show, and they took 3 seasons to get them together why the hell tear them apart so quickly. Please don’t kill off Felicity.

    • Dylan luo says:

      No not laurel, she marries Oliver in the comics

      • jrex says:

        The show is not following to comic books in precise detail nor do they need to. In the current comic books Oliver and Laurel haven’t even met much less married.

      • Liz1 says:

        They also divorce too.

        • Hodan says:

          LMAO! Don’t bother. For some Green Arrow and Black Canary are still married. Like go read a comic books you all want the show to follow.

          • Irene H says:

            The thing is, in the show, the way they begun laurel and Oliver’s with the whole Sara thing and what we saw of them in season 2, Oliver and Laurel just don’t work. They could be the best couple ever in the comics but when you bring the characters to life on screen it’s not always the same and personally I don’t thing they have the same chemistry.

      • DYS says:

        This show is “based on” the comics though, not duplicated from them, so that doesn’t necessarily matter.

    • Guest says:

      It’s not Laurel she’s the black canary and female lead, they wouldn’t kill her and besides if it were Laurel then Quintin would be at the gravestone as well and then he wouldn’t have much purpose on the show, and it’s not Lance either because then Laurel would be there

  7. Lex says:

    I guess I will be selling “If Felicity Dies We Riot” shirts on Etsy… going there would be an even bigger mistake than the ending to How I Met Your Mother. Don’t they realize that it’s more ballsy to keep a happy couple around and have them working both as lovers and partners than killing someone right when everything’s coming up roses? FRIDGING A WOMAN FOR THE ANGST IS NOT ORIGINAL. Dear God, please don’t let this show become a Joss Whedon cliche.

    • Tobias says:

      I guess I will be selling ” Arrow has been saved” t shirts. I will sleep well knowing that Olicity might be done with..

      • Kmi says:

        Wow no need to be so evil about it, olicity might nit be eveyones cup of tea and the most complaints i hear is that there ia too much romance drama and people want to see more action.

        Felicity is a great character and is unique on what she brings to the table, which is a funny qurky lighter prescense. She is not broody, not sassy or reckless. She is a fun character to watch and a fan favorite.

        They dont need to kill her off to bring on action to the show. Just an fyi you might hate the romance but in adults lifes there is romance, you should cheer for both. In action movies the hero always bas a romance, it doesnt revolve around it but it is present.

        I just hope thi season will be less dramatic than last, you see i like action and tune in for it as well.

        I dont think they will kill any of the core members. Not felicity, not diggle, thea or laurel. My money is on the mom of his kid, his kid or lance.

    • MFL says:

      I want Felicity to be in that grave just so to see Olicity shippers flip out and vow never to see the show again…

    • Ryan says:

      I could not agree more! It took me a year to get over thats How I Met Your Mother situation. Partly because of this show II was able to pick myself up. If they do it again I give up my faith on TV.

  8. stephanie says:

    it’s definitely not felicity. not if they person in the grave is going to stay dead. the writers aren’t that stupid.

    my money is on Captain Lance.

    • JJ says:

      but if it was Captain Lance…would Oliver be that upset? wouldn’t it be Laurel by the grave?

      • kittymalt says:

        he would be that upset if he was forced to kill his friends dad, just saying

      • Liz1 says:

        He’d be upset if Lance sacrificed himself so Oliver could live which I see him doing if he feels guilty for working with Damien.

      • lilyb says:

        I don’t think we can go by who would/should be at the grave with Oliver. No matter who it is, it’s unlikely that Oliver would ever be standing there alone. They purposely had Barry come in for exposition’s sake so they could leave all the other characters out of it specifically so we wouldn’t be able to guess who the dead one is.

    • TheDrkKnight says:

      The problem with several of these theories is the fact that they’re very flawed and after watching what I’ve watched over and over again and carefully picking through it it’s not Captain Lance it’s not Daigle it’s not Laurel all of them are all in the preview for next week now I understand some of you may think I’m in idiot it’s probably just a flashback but take into account the fact that to the left you see that The girl from the next episode who was tied up evidently by anarchy is there and the whole hair team is there with her crashing to the glass in the beginning of the preview it shows captain Lance talking to all of her and him saying that he wants to help also against anarchy Which is not part of a flashback at least from what I can tell the only person that I think could be in the grave is either Lila or Felicity but honestly I don’t believe that all of her wood shed tears for Lila although they Cared for each other a great deal I highly doubt that he would be so distraught and Vow to kill again.

    • Guest says:

      If it was Lance then wouldn’t Laurel be there

  9. GildedRose says:

    That was an awesome season premiere! Omgosh! Loved every second of it from Oliver to Felicity to Diggle to Oliver/Felicity and Damien Darhk was fabulous. that ending teaser was a riot. It’ll end up not being what we think, so I’m not worried. Entertained as heck but not worried. I have suspicions. ;)

  10. herman1959 says:

    First, the show was totally AWESOME. Second, this many people think it’s Felicity’s grave…really? My first thought was Lyla, but now that I’ve read the EP’s comments I’m sure there is going to be a twist and the dead person will be brought back. That said, if this is Sara’s grave, I’ll be disappointed.

    • m3rcnate says:

      Did you really read the EP’s comments? Because his first sentence was: “Somebody is definitely dead — “It’s not a fake-out,” Guggenheim confirms,…..and he or she will stay that way, despite the existence of Nanda Parbat’s magical hot tub. “We want to bring stakes back to the show, and so, we’ll be finding a way to handle the Lazarus Pit… in a new, inventive way that I can’t reveal,” Mericle shares. “But it’ll be cool.” Adds Guggenheim: “It’ll feel organic and very earned. It’s actually very elegant.””
      .
      What part of that is confusing? Someone is dead, and will be staying that way.

      • herman1959 says:

        Yes, I read the comments, but they don’t preclude the “dead person” being Sara. She could still be in Legends in a different time or universe. I’m taking what the EP said to mean that the person in the grave is not coming back to the CURRENT Arrow timeframe/universe. There is some kind of trick to this, so I’m just throwing this out.

  11. Liz1 says:

    That was the BEST episode in forever. Probably my fave ever. Olicity were so perfect and beautiful together. Thea was adorable and great as Speedy. Diggle/Oliver out in the field. Quentin working with Damien. Also Damien was awesome! I’m so pumped for the rest of the season!

  12. Amber says:

    95% certain it’s gonna be Felicity in that grave. And if it is, I’m gonna be so pissed. I don’t care if that’s not who Oliver ends up with in the comics, but Felicity has been one of the better things about this show, and to build up this relationship for two seasons to give it to us in one and then rip it away permanently would just feel really cheap I think and all it would do is make viewers angry. Sigh. Rant over.

    • herman1959 says:

      Don’t worry, Felicity can’t stay dead because there is no way in Hell that her character could be killed off and it could be kept a secret from the fans. In the past, Arrow details have been leaked more than once…Arrow is leaky!

  13. Hopefully it is Thea since she is dead weight but I have a feeling it could be Diggle.

  14. Beth says:

    I think it’s Felicity but I hope I’m wrong as I think I’d have to quit watching! Just like I did with Greys after Shonda killed McDreamy.

  15. rebecca brewer says:

    Don’t let felicity die

  16. jrex says:

    My guess is Thea in the grave, but I seriously hope its not a female character this time, so my second choice would be Capt. Lance though that would not explain Oliver’s tears.

  17. aunni says:

    Emily is in every single episode so far,if anyone is missing from set it’s katie…….get over yourself felicity haters who thinks F is the one dying

    • Brigid says:

      Ok Laurel hater. I think both women are awesome, you think you are the only one allowed to dislike a character, get over yourself!

  18. Noel says:

    Loved this episode! The grave better not be Felicity. I will definitely be pissed if that is her.

  19. Andrew Houde says:

    It’s Felicity, otherwise she would have been next to him at the grave.

  20. Mikaela says:

    Psst…Starling City

  21. Jess says:

    It’s not Laurel or Thea. Only Felicity dying would elicit that kind of crying and that rage. Thea is the only family that Ollie has left plus she already “died”. Laurel will stay alive because that’s who Ollie is supposed to end up with. It’s not Lance because Ollie and him aren’t that close. The only other person would be Diggle.

    Damien Darhk is awesome. This is definitely going to be a great season.

  22. Jacob Siefken says:

    If you look at upcoming episode descriptions and photos, Captain Lance,Thea,Laurel,Diggle, and Felicity are there. So if not them who?? It has to be someone close to Olivers heart for him to kill once again.

  23. N says:

    Wouldn’t it be Felicity tho? She’s really the only 1 I see Barry running to Star City for

    • Kevin says:

      But he didn’t really grieve he just went to give his condelescence and left. It was basically an “im sorry for your loss” type of thing.

  24. exs113030 says:

    I definitley think it’s Lance in the grave. Like 98% sure.

    • exs113030 says:

      Also, I’m seeing several comments about how only Felicity would elicit his reaction. I watched it and the first thing that popped into my head was that it isn’t Thea or Felicity because that would have had a much bigger reaction. Not to mention Barry’s reaction would have been bigger if it were Felicity…

      I think Lance and Oliver will ultimately bond and/or find common ground and that will ultimately be followed by him dying.

  25. E says:

    I love all the Olicity tonight!! I’m conflicted over who is in the grave that Barry would show up late for and the deceased would make Oliver cry. I really really hope it isn’t Felicity. Not only do I love her character but she is the normal one on the show. I don’t want to watch a show where everyone is a hero. Capt. Lance is normal too but he doesn’t interact or add anything to Team Arrow! What would everyone do of they couldnt rely on Felicity’s computer skills. Please please don’t be her in that grave. Also I feel if it was her Barry would have been in time and show a little more emotion. I hope it’s Thea or Laurel since I can’t stand her

  26. Sarah says:

    My theory is that it’s gonna be either Felicity or Lance. I have a feeling it’s most likely felicity because her death is gonna create the darkness in Oliver. And I feel because of this, his son is gonna make an appearance to bring him from that.

  27. Shelby says:

    That better not be felicity in the grave, I will be done with this show if it is

  28. Eric7740 says:

    That’s a season premiere!!!!! Arrow is amazing!!!

  29. Suzyque says:

    I really don’t think that’s Felicity’s grave because A) she’s the most obvious choice, and B) Barry wouldn’t have missed her funeral for anything — and he would have seemed more shaken up by it. My money’s on Laurel.

  30. Linda says:

    My guess is Thea.

  31. Ryan says:

    I was promised a lighter tone this season and you break that promise in episode 1. If my beloved Felicity is in that grave I am done.

  32. Dj says:

    It’s not Felicity grave Barry would demand to help and they know the shippers would act crazy if it was her. I don’t think it’s Thea they kind of killed her last season so that would be a waste. I think the grave is Quentin Lance. Oliver would feel like he lead Lance down this dark path that got him killed.

  33. I think it is going to be a totally left-field death. Maybe the child he doesn’t know he has, but was alluded to on the Flash episode where his ex baby mama called her kid? Main characters intact, still hurts Oliver…cliff hanger success.

  34. Dj says:

    I do wish they would kill off one of the mains Felicity/Diggle/Laurel just to make it more interesting.

  35. Ashley says:

    I felt like certain areas of the episode went too quickly, almost like the scenes are halved for time purposes, but otherwise, solid premiere. The ending will obviously be Felicity that was killed, but in actuality it’ll be Damien kidnapped her because he’s her father and he wanted to hurt Oliver but couldn’t kill his own daughter. I really just want Damien to be Felicity’s dad!

  36. tammy bass says:

    I hope its not Felicity I don’t want her to die I’ve always wanted her and Arrow together.

  37. James D says:

    It’s most likely Felicity. I given the comic history of Green Arrow it seems pretty obvious something was going to happen I didn’t think the writers had it in them though considering how popular she is with a lot of the viewership. It could be Thea or Diggle but my bet is still on Felicity. As for the episode most of it I could of done with out to be honest. maybe it’s because of how last season went I just don’t have the tolerance i once did, but it seemed to me it was a lot of the same stuff from last season everyone blaming Oliver for everything, and Oliver going all guiltfest. I Love Neal though he was a brilliant casting choice for Dahrk and the last five minutes with Captian Lance and of course the grave scene was super awesome so I will keep watching happily.

  38. Christine says:

    Seriously, does anyone actually think it’s Felicity? Regardless of where you fall on liking her and their relationship or not, she’s now one half of the central love story and killing her off would pretty much kill any chance for a happy ending, not to mention losing a good chunk of the fanbase. It would be dramatic, yes, but HIGHLY impractical.

  39. I don’t know why i feel like it’s Roy

  40. That better not be Felicity…..She’s the main reason I watch the show….They better not do that to her or I’m done :(
    No PLS NOT Felicity :'( I’m Crying

    The Episode otherwise might just be the BEST epi ever <3 SO much Olicity goodness and Sexy Green Arrow ahhhhh <3 Felicity Smoak saving the day nd love the tension btwn Oliver and Diggle, excited to see how they repair their relationship

  41. matt says:

    its laurel lance because she wasnt at the comic con this year and she is a horrible actor and doesnt really add anything to the show. plus we know from the legue of legends that sara comes back so theres no need for her anymore

    • harald says:

      I agree that Laurel is pointless and annoying (and Cassidy is ugly and a terrible actress), but Sara goes to Legends of Tomorrow and does not return to Arrow (or only briefly), so she won’t replace Laurel in the team. Not that a replacement is needed.

      • Brigid says:

        Good episode! I loved seeing Laurel and Thea so bad@ss. It’s awesome having strong women on this show. I don’t believe it’s Felicity in that grave, maybe Lyla or Lance or even Diggle and hoping it’s not Thea or Laurel. Damien Darhk is pretty cool but I was shocked as sh&t to see Quentin working with him. Nothing good can come from that.

        • Guest says:

          I agree it was so good to see Thea and Laurel be all badass and nothing good will come out of Lance working with Damian Dark least of all his relationship with Laurel

  42. talonz55 says:

    Ummm… Are we not gonna talk about the Green Lantern references in tonight’s episode? Coast City and the shot of the guy in the flight jacket with the name Jordan plastered on the front?!?

  43. AJILLG says:

    I’m thinking the grave is for his soon-to-be-discovered child. Nothing says heartbreak and rage like the death of a child, even if he just recently found out about them.

    • John NYC says:

      Another possibility.

      That shoe (his son?) has been waiting around to drop for a while now.

      • Isobel says:

        Yeah his kid is Connor Hawke

        • John NYC says:

          AND he lives in the same city as Barry and his Mom visits the same coffee place as Barry. Six months is plenty of time to develop a connection, even one as flimsy as just that she/they/he are murdered in that town rather than Star City.

  44. Rita says:

    My favourite season opener so far. Fun episode. Lots of action. Great dramatic tension. Loads of character interactions. Love the lighter Oliver. He was so cute with Felicity and the cooking. Miss the old Diggle but Lyla’s speech to him gave me chills. Too many people would spot watching the show if they killed Felicity so I have a feeling it’s a big twist. They want us to think it’s her. Great episode overall. Glad arrow is back!!!!

  45. ssnake42069 says:

    i believe its either diggle or thea in the grave, from a logical standpoint. Diggle, who is so thickheaded when it comes to his brother, will most likely get himself killed, and specifically request not to be brought back using the pit. Thea, simply because maybe the pit doesnt heal mortal wounds or death twice in this universe. I think that if it was felicity, a normal human being would truly be broken after having lost so much, and would kill himself. So thats why i dont think its felicity.

  46. Roger says:

    It’s not Felicity. I know the show is called Arrow but since the middle of season one she has been running the team. She is the Alpha. Laurel or Lyla maybe but I think Oliver would still believe that it was his fault for allowing them to be involved. I think it may be a character we have not seen yet.

  47. hadz says:

    i really hope they kill laurel she is definitely the most annoying character in the show and cant stand to watch another season with her in it.

    • Liz1 says:

      I don’t hate Laurel but she was so bland in this episode. You could remove her scenes and not much would change.

    • shakzz says:

      it is laurel, thats the reason they bring sara back!

      • Dj says:

        It could be grave Laurel, but her death isnt why Sara is coming back. Laurel is the one who wants to bring Sara back and episodes 3-5 deals with Laurel using the Pit to try to bring her back and what happens after.

      • Guest says:

        That dosn’t mean that it’s Laurel, and Katie Cassidy isn’t a bad actress and she does add a lot to the show

    • Kyle O says:

      Have you never read a single Green Arrow comic book? Ever? Laurel is probably one of the most important and central characters to the universe. Felicity isn’t even a factor in 99% of it.

      • John NYC says:

        To the comic book universe perhaps. In the television show universe? TBD.

      • Liz1 says:

        Not in this show she’s not. Laurel is practically forgettable on Arrow and it’s all the writers fault. Also low-key blame the miscasting of Cassidy in the role.

        • Guest says:

          No she’s not she’s important to the show, you might not like Laurel but a lot of us do, she was practicly the only good thing about season 3

          • Liz1 says:

            Says you. I thought season 3 was bad primarily because they killed Sara to make Laurel Black Canary. Trying to make Laurel happen set off a chain of terrible events and bad plots and they know they messed up because Sara’s coming back and she’s getting a show basically built around her as female lead.

          • Guest says:

            Yearh some of us actually like Laurel and can see her development we just aren’t that lod, at least with Laurel we got to see her start from scratch and Sara pretty much only exixted to make Laurel the black canary a role she was always going to have

  48. Way,way 2 much Olicity Flash is still the better show

  49. mac says:

    Please be Felicity, this would finally set the show back on track!
    The character that derailed it all could help bring it back to old glory via a dramatic death!

  50. Rex says:

    While the most oobvious choice of who’s in the grave is Felicity, it’ll pprobably end up being someone no one would expect. Probably Hal Jordan just for kicks. I mean he obviously exists now so…

    • Joe black says:

      It’s not felicity. The candidate airing next week has felicity in the description for the episode. The a is safe too

      • Dj says:

        The grave scene was in 6 months which means it should be in a episode in April or toward the end of the season.

        • herman1959 says:

          Hopefully, we won’t have to wait until then to find out who it is. Anyway, this thing is almost as big as “Who shot J.R?”.