Arrow Recap: An Offer He Can't Refuse — Plus, So Many Daddy Issues

Arrow Recap

The CW’s Arrow returned this week with an episode that clearly illustrated the stark differences between it and sister superhero series The Flash.

Because whereas the lighter, brighter The Flash let loose Tuesday night with an hour that closed with a breathless, almost manic final 10 minutes, Arrow — by the nature of the storyline at hand, I suppose — needed to be talkier, more brooding.

But how much of everybody being angry at everybody can a person sit through over the course of forty-some minutes?

Picking up right where we left off, Ra’s pitched Oliver, hard, on becoming his heir, on saving a world versus just one city, with infinite resources at his command. The ticking clock for Ra’s is the unnamed Lazarus Pit, waters that “permitted me to live way beyond my time,” but have started losing their effect. As a sign of good faith as Oliver mulls the overture, Ra’s sets free not just Diggle but also Malcolm, to return home.

Once Oliver resurfaces in Starling City, Thea puts it best a la “How many times can I say ‘Thank God you’re alive?'” But then everyone digs in their heels and expresses righteous indignation at Oliver’s rescue of Malcolm. (Worse for Thea, though she is relatively rational about it: Malcolm spends the episode “healing” on her sofa.) Then, Ra’s al Ghul’s “prophecy” begins coming true — that the city (meaning: Captain Lance) would turn against the Arrow, that Oliver despite his crusade would die alone (because: Felicity is with Ray). That puts Oliver in a sour mood, questioning aloud more than once: “What have I accomplished?”

To that, Felicity says that just as she, Diggle, Roy and Laurel, during one of his previous deaths, had to decide what they were fighting for, it’s now his turn.The Offer

Meanwhile, Laurel, Thea and Nyssa each have sad, verbal jousts with their respective dads. Quentin says that his hurt is nothing Laurel can “save,” that he might not ever forgive her for lying about Sara. Thea tells Malcolm that she never thought she could hurt worse than she did when he came into her life — and yet now here she is, wrecked, wondering what exactly, pray tell, he has taught her. And Nyssa tells Ra’s, “I will not stand here and watch you hand over my legacy to an outside” — to which he coldly answers, “Then don’t.”

Ultimately, a run-in with a generic band of thieves led by Murmur, a sewed-mouth goon out for revenge against Lance, helps Oliver remember his purpose – -that while he started out looking to right his father’s wrongs, now he does the thing he does for the families of police officers counting on Team Arrow to get the boys in blue home safe. Which… rings a little hollow, in my opinion. For one, it undermines the integrity of the police force. And two, it makes it sound as if the city would crumble in Arrow’s absence — when just a few weeks ago, we saw how everyone banded together as a galvanized community. Whatever the case, Maseo shows up to get Oliver’s answer — no — and then warns of the consequences for defying the story Ra’s hath already writ.

As the episode draws to a close, Nyssa heads out to dinner with Laurel (whom she has offered to train) to ruminate over their respective daddy issues; Thea shows up at Roy’s (lips) to remember who she once was; and a green archer whacks two of Murmur’s remaining goons — though it’s not Oliver but Ra’s, apparently out to sully the Arrow’s name…?

Meanwhile, the flimsiest flashback C-story ever can be summed up in seven words: While helping hide Akio, Oliver saw Shado.

* “I suppose congratulation and ‘Why oh why would you do that?!’ are in order.”
* “You still need training.” “When are you going to stop telling me that?” “When you no longer need training.”
* “It’s the League of Assassins — that is not the name of a nice group.”
* “During the fighting, your technique was competent.” “Why do I have the feeling that’s your idea of a compliment?”

What did you think of “The Offer”?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Heidi says:

    What Laurel has needed all along is Nyssa to train her. And each time they would talk about how dastardly Merlin is, I expected Malcolm to say, “I’m right here in the room, guys.” Very brooding and I want more Felicity and Ray interaction.

    • Sarah T says:

      LOL-Love your calling comments about Malcolm! That’s hilarious!. So true. I agree that Laurel has needed formal training. Glad she’s going to get that. I was good on the Felicity and Ray interaction since we got so much of that in the previous episode before the break. Also since we know that Ray is going off onto his own show, I have a feeling this is all a catalyst for something happening to Felicity and then Oliver realizing how much he wants to be with her.

      • CM says:

        Now that Felicity is getting some action, her and Oliver will reconnect again. TV trope 101.

        • herman1959 says:

          I know.

        • madskilz48 says:

          I hope you’re wrong. Oliver needs someone with more of an “attitude”. Felicity is with the right guy.

          • Kat says:

            I think Felicity has plenty of attitude. She’s always standing up to him. Ray maybe would have worked for her before she met Oliver, now there’s no comparison because one of the reasons why she’s even with Ray is because he has certain similarities to Oliver but he’s not him and he never will be.

          • Georgia Madman says:

            My vote is with Nyssa as long as she switch hits. That would be an *ss kicking duo. Ad when he’s tired o leading the League, he could hand it off to the “heir”.

    • stanisloski101 says:

      The show has done a great disservice to the Laurel character as we all know, but I do like the new Nyssa dynamic.
      I think them hooking up is a great alternative to the strained attempts at ‘Laulliver’.
      Also, while there’s an obvious Batman rip-off going on here, Arrow is a far more plausible successor for Ras than Batman.
      Arrow has been a killer, not sharing Batman’s ‘No-Killing-No-Matter-What” ethos.

  2. Sarah T says:

    Actually, I thought this was a pretty solid episode. It gave us a lot of everything we’ve been looking for. It gave us Oliver and Felicity moments. It gave some resolution to the plot from the previous episode. It touched on Laurel’s lack of training. In essence it was a build up for the rest of the season I thought it did a good job at that. I was especially happy with Oliver & Felicity interactions because those seemed more like what they had been in the past. But it also makes me think that something is going to happen to Felicity in the next couple of episodes and Oliver will have to save her by means of the route Lazarus pit and a bargain.

  3. CM says:

    After watching this episode I have no idea what people see in Raylicity. Ray is still creepy and there is nowhere near the chemistry between EBR and BR that there is between EBR and SA. It doesn’t mean I need Olicity, just that the chemistry isn’t there in Raylicity.

    This whole Felicity relationship football thing that’s been going on all season is not doing the character any favours. If anything, from what I see, fans are turning on Felicity (no matter what the showrunners are selling).

    BTW, Laurel as any colour canary is useless.

    • Kay says:

      I agree. Raylicity just feels so contrived and pointless. It’s so obvious why they’re doing it. They could have written a hundred other ways of keeping Olicity apart, and before anyone jumps on my comment and says I’m only saying this as an Olicity fan, I actually wouldn’t mind them being just friends. The friendship between Olicity tonight was a billion times better than any romantic relationship between Ray and Felicity. I’m actually sitting here confused to why she’s even with him when all I see is that she’s in love with Oliver. Settling for someone she doesn’t really want if only she thought about it doesn’t do Felicity any favors and I speak as a fan of her character. I love her but she’s making poor decisions.

      • Brigid says:

        She’s making the right decisions. Oliver doesn’t want her so she goes with the man who does. Is she suppose to pine away for Oliver? That would make her pathetic and she is a strong woman. I think her and Ray have great chemistry and she does like him so I say Go For It!!

  4. James D says:

    ok episode. I totally knew Ra’s was going to do that, the Fiend how dare he sully the good name of Arrow :) in all seriousness I’m strangely ok with this plot arc even if with the obvious connection of Batman. By showing the Lazarus Pit is slowly loosing its affect on Ra’s it weakens him enough to make it believable Oliver Queen would have a chance against him but not too much as to make him loose all credibility. I’m also cool with Nyssa training Laural I’m glad someone will and it won’t be Oliver which would of been weird. could of done with out all the soap opera stuff which has been evident through out this season, I’m ok with it as long as it doesn’t start taking over the story it seems to me it has for a large part of this season, but that could just be me.

  5. Drew says:

    Goodness. At this point, I might be willing to pay cash money for an episode where Felicity doesn’t give Oliver an overly sentimental speech using cry voice the entire time. What happened to the quick, blunt Felicity that spoke without thinking so often that she usually wound up with a foot in her mouth? I want her back. Get rid of the whiny chick.
    I still love Felicity, but I am inching toward being okay with them killing her off to get Oliver out of whatever cloud his head has been in lately. He is seeming so ineffective as a character lately. Season 1 Oliver would have told Lance to pick up his d@mn phone next time. This Oliver is all “Gosh sir, I sure do love saving people”… When he isn’t getting his butt kicked. How can having more fighters on a team possibly make the team weaker than it was before?
    Captain Lance was still really solid this week, so there is that. I like the Laurel/Nyssa team up because they both have something to teach the other. Thea has a really strong story going too.
    If it weren’t for Oliver, Felicity and Ra’s (who turned out to be shockingly lame for the first time in the character’s history) this would be a great season!
    Maybe Oliver should have been out of commission for a few months after his fall. The flashback story is more interesting anyway.

    • Sarah T says:

      I feel like people are either mad at felicity for being too blunt/hard on Oliver or for her being too emotional with him. I actually thought this was more of the Oliver/Felicity interaction that made me like the characters together to begin with. I thought she was pretty direct with him without being too hard on him. I’m kind of over Raj at this point but I was never a big fan of his, even in batman. However, Im thinking something is going to happen to felicity (possibly in the episode where she & Ray going to see Barry) & she’ll either come close to death or near death so they’ll have to take her to the Lazarus pit. There will have to be an “exchange ” of a life for a life for Raj to do that & Roy will step in before Oliver can to either give up his life or join the league. I’m also guessing that Sara will be alive (which is how she’ll be on the new spin off show with Ray, etc).

      • Sarah T says:

        *Close to death or die so Oliver will take her to the Lazurus pit.

      • Drew says:

        The whole dynamic with Oliver and Felicity is off this year. They took something that was completely effortless for two seasons and turned it into the most painfully forced relationship on the show at this point nothing they say to each other feels natural. It all feels like something a writer wants them to say.
        I do have to say that seeing Shado was a pleasant surprise.

        • Lou says:

          I thought they were pretty natural tonight actually. I liked them again. A lot.

        • madskilz48 says:

          I would rather see Oliver with Shadow again. He needs a warrior girlfriend.

        • kath says:

          These producers can do a good action show, but they’re really bad at relationships. Oliver and Felicity were effortlessly great, and then the writers started writing for their relationship and it all fell apart.
          They need to stop writing for plot and just let Oliver and Felicity be good together again.

    • herman1959 says:

      I’m starting to get into the flashback story too (yes Matt, I actually am), and I can’t wait to see what happens to Maseo’s son. Sorry, but the sight of Laurel and Nyssa going to dinner…I can’t get into it. Nyssa was so fierce, but that’s gone now. I will say though, that I liked that moment in the fight when Oliver and Roy dropped from the ceiling…cool!

      • Drew says:

        I personally enjoy the flashbacks a lot. I have been really curious about what happens to the kid for a while now. It is drawing me in more than the Ra’s story.

        • Rook says:

          The kid is obviously going to die. I mean right, what other logical option is there that has his dad working for Ra’s and mom living in the middle on nowhere.

    • Ram510 says:

      I agree about Felicity. I’m so sick of her crying every episode, I almost look forward to when she’s with ATOM not because I like them together but just so the probability of her a having a crying monologue decreases. They need to give her something to do otherwise she’ll end up a very unlikeable character like Laurel

      • kath says:

        You’re not the only one who doesn’t like Felicity crying all the time.

        At the Paley Festival interviews, EBR was asked what she would link for Felicity next season and she answered, no crying. Felicity has cried enough.

  6. Sil says:

    This episode was pretty good, I guess. Not great. It answered problems about Laurel not having training. She’ll need someone with Nyssa’s expertise to train her. Still having Lance mad at the Arrow for Laurel’s choice to lie to him for all these months is wrong. I get that he is livid to be lied to, but, that was his kid’s doing. I’m glad that Oliver and the Arrow team are on good terms. I’m glad to see Felicity and Oliver having heart to heart talks again. Still don’t care about Ray. So glad Thea is facing the internal feelings about Merlyn. Thea and Roy together.

    • herman1959 says:

      Having Nyssa train Laurel is a switch; I expected Oliver to give up and train her.

      • Lou says:

        Oliver can never train Laurel because the comic fans will run riot! OH NO, GA training BC?!!! No way! Actually I don’t even read the comics and I don’t want him to train her. If she’s gonna be BC then she should earn it on her own. Sara did.

  7. Sparta says:

    Nobody on this show ever dies….except Sarah…..maybe.

    • Kate says:

      It sucks. Sara should be the one who doesn’t die.

    • adam says:

      What about Tommy.

    • Azerty says:

      Come on Oliver’s dad, Tommy or Moira are nobody? I agree that Sara’s death sucks she was one of my favorite last year and the show is a mess since then. But in my opinion in a TV world where people are never really dead (best example would be Revenge or maybe Once Upon a Time) or on the contrary people can die anywhere at anytime in the most horrible way (The Walking Dead or Game of Throne) I think Arrow has a good balance with the death of its characters. Then again it is from a comic and you ate right people never really die in comics :)

  8. Kay says:

    Good Lord this episode was a breath of fresh air. Actual communication happened! Oliver and Felicity were allowed to be themselves again. They reminded me why I love those two together so much. You have Raylicity being super awkward and then Olicity comes along and their chemistry blows them away! Wow. The emotion between them is palpable.

    Thea/Roy were so good, really pleased to see that happening again. It feels earned.

    Laurel needs Nyssa to train her because she’s pretty terrible and I’m getting bored of seeing her so bad at this. Do it show! I’m sad Quentin broke up with the Arrow though and I hate that Oliver thinks it’s his fault for lying to him about Sara. Yes, he did but Laurel was the one who didn’t want Quentin to know in the first place. She needs to take responsibility for her actions there. Sorry.

    Ra’s is so sneaky at the end. Was actually surprised. So everything that he said would happen to Oliver at the start is going to happen in the next few episodes. So first Lance turns on him, then his team will be destroyed. It’s all action here on out, thank god. I was so bored lately.

    All in all, real solid episode. Return to form.

    • kelly says:

      I agree 100%. I really enjoyed this episode. It felt like the old Arrow to me. But then again I have enjoyed every episode it just started to feel a little different.

  9. While the episode was certainly enjoyable and entertaining enough, like every other episode this season has been, the main issue with this season is that I feel it has lacked the game-changing impacts that the first two seasons had.

    In season 1, once Malcolm Merlyn was revealed to be the Dark Archer and the Undertaking slowly unfolded, all bets were off. In season 2, the reveal that Sara was not only alive but now the Canary and Oliver’s great friend and fellow island survivor Slade Wilson was in fact now the bad guy changed the entire scope of the show.

    Compare the impact of these revelations to this season’s death of Sara, the reveal of Thea being Sara’s killer, Laurel turning into the Canary, Ray turning into the Atom, Oliver’s lame pseudo-death and revival and Ra’s offer to Oliver. Nowhere near the game changers of the previous seasons and I think this is why this season has not been as impactful as the first two and fallen behind in the wake of the Flash’s excellent first season, both figuratively in the creative sense and literally in the ratings.

    They are trying to replicate this game-changing feel with the offer to become the next Ra’s, but for this to have had game-changing impact, Oliver would have had to actually accept. I was honestly a bit surprised and disappointed that he said no in just one episode. It would’ve been more fun to have him accept and then realize what a huge mistake that was and fight his way out. Or even put him together with Nyssa as a Talia stand-in if they really wanted to do that storyline all the way.

    It’s certainly not helping that the Hong Kong flashbacks are a dreadful storyline, especially compared to the excellent first and second season island flashbacks. i don’t think the show can recover at this point in the season and hit the lofty heights of seasons one or two though I still find the show very entertaining. Not every season is going to be a winner.

    • CM says:

      Too many episodes. They should cut back to 13-ish and speed up the storytelling.

      • JJM says:

        Normally the show does do season-long arcs. The reason this season seems like it’s been dragging and not speedy at all was because they’ve done split story arcs now. The first being Sara and who killed her. The second being Oliver “dead” and Team Arrow taking over to watch the city. Now, the third being the story we’re currently getting told.

  10. TakeARisk says:

    They should send felicity with Ray. Arrow as a show needs a fresh start, it needs to change the plot or it runs the risk of becoming overly repetitive and uneventful. They have so many characters who don’t contribute anything to the show other than being part of ‘team arrow.’

    These characters need to take on less dominant roles, and let the show develop a major story line.
    Laurel – Have her go on her own with Nyssa, and do her own thing. When she and arrow work on the same case or their stories cross paths let there be something more to their scenes then “i’m Laurel, i disagree with oliver” or “im oliver, laurel annoys me but i keep her around because she’ll die fighting crime without me.”
    Dig – Keep.
    Felicity – Olicity needs space to reignite the spark, otherwise the story becomes repetitive and the drama or plot twists are no longer captivating.
    Thea – Needs to move on. She tends to be a character who whines a lot and does very little, she now can do stuff, she now has money. Maybe have her try and start a charity for the glades or something rather than a club, get her involved in a bigger picture outside of team arrow and being down and gloomy. She can fight, great. Let her be the fighter who no longer wants to fight.
    Ray – Needs his own show fast, he also needs to be cast in a different light from time to time. Give him some depth.
    Roy – Have him be killed or blackmailed into the suicide squad somehow. Disappear for a few episodes but come in on occasion.

    • murley says:

      The one thing in your comment that sparked my interest was the idea of Thea starting a charity. I feel like despite the whole “you have failed this city” thing at the start, the arrow has been moving towards more of a crime fighter as opposed to a champion of the downtrodden with which I would more associate the comic version of Green Arrow. I feel like that element of his persona helped distinguish him from Batman. Introducing the idea of philanthropy into the show and making things feel a little more social political could be cool because it is an element of Green Arrow that I like. And it would make things a little less angsty.

  11. Honestly I’ve been questioning Oliver for a while now…..why save Malcolm? He DESERVED whatever the LOA was going to give him.

    • Carm says:

      Another question? Why does he keep inflicting Malcolm on his sister, Laurel and the rest of the Arrow team? Thea is in the deepest pain possible and what does he do? He brings the source of her pain to lie on her sofa to inflict more pain? I DON’T GET IT.

  12. nikki says:

    Lance was the only good thing about this week’s episode.

  13. Lou says:

    I already hate the Lazarus pit.

  14. Lou says:

    I still don’t know why they saved Malcolm. This is all his fault anyway. Kill him already. I’m so tired of him.

    • Mena says:

      Yes! So contrived Oliver’s determination to save MM’s butt. Causing this entire story arc for Oliver to be given an offer to become Ra’s or else seem uninteresting. JMO. Merlyn was an excellent villain season 1. But, his presence now is not as a villain but as a vehicle to effect Oliver and Thea’s changes into whatever they plan. Waste of Barrowman’s talent. My theory is that Oliver will lead the LoA’s to become the new Justice League to go into next season. Especially, since The producers and writers have said that Arrow will be different from here on out.

      • Lou says:

        Yes. MM was so good in the first season but after he begged Ra’s for his life I just see him as pathetic. I don’t see the point in keeping him around because the threat he used to be just feels weak now. He doesn’t love Thea, not after what he made her do. I don’t understand why Oliver is keeping him around. The motivations are not clear at all. I’m just finding him a nuisance. Good theory but not one I want to see. I’m not here to watch a new Justice League.

        • Mena says:

          Agree with you. I don’t want the Justice League either. But the producers have said from here on out will change Arrow as we know it. I don’t know if that’s what I’d like to watch. Merlyn is a waste of breath on this earth right now. A coward, liar, manipulator, and turd bowl. A good flush would do.

  15. Kutaba says:

    Any guesses to the identity of the obviously female League of Assasin ninja Ra’s spoke to on the way to show Oliver the Lazarus pit was. Seemed like it was put in the episode for a reason.
    Maybe Shado, the Huntress, Sara, maybe Talia……?

    • Mena says:

      I think she was Shado. And Shado will serve a purpose to Ra’s.

    • Nona says:

      That is what I was just said in a comment a few minutes ago withouth reading this comment. Shado is alive and Ra’s rescued her from the island and I also asked if anyone knows how many LOA members are there and how many women are in the LOA? Because if there are women, besides Nyssa I wotn be surprised if one of them is Shado like you just mentioned here Kutaba

  16. I only care about Shado,is she back or what?

  17. kath says:

    Third best thing: Everyone told Oliver what a bad idea it was and he listened.
    Second best thing: Nyssa can now be Laurel’s BFF, relieving Felicity of that duty.
    Best Thing: Oliver talk to both Diggle and Felicity, just like in the first two seasons when the show hooked me in. First time he’s actually talked to Felicity since episode 3×02.

    • LC says:

      Everyone acted how they used to because they’re free from propping Laurel and Ray, which is what this season has mostly been about. I felt like I was watching a great S2 episode tonight because these are the characters I love. No more pod people hopefully!

      • tonnie says:

        The only thing being propped is olicity

        • Kate says:

          What. No way! Propping only occurs when characters act out of character to serve another. Felicity acted out of character when she ran Sara under a bus and said she didn’t have the same light that Laurel had – all to prop Laurel. It was unnecessary. Diggle acted out of character by allowing Laurel to join the team even though she was a liability and had no training. A solider wouldn’t do that, more Laurel propping. Sorry. You’re wrong.

  18. Joey Padron says:

    Good episode. Glad Oliver & Felicity are talking to each other like they used to. Glad Nyssa & Laurel are bonding & she’ll train Laurel to fight better. Good Roy & Thea could get back together. Surprised Shado is alive?! Not good Ra Al Ghul is dressed up as The Arrow at end.

  19. JJM says:

    If the writers have suddenly brought back Shado, I will riot. I do like her character, but it would just serve as a terrible purpose and discontinue any point in season two. If Shado were alive, Oliver uttering the words, “chill out, Slade, no need for revenge, Shado is alive!!!” would mean his mother would still possibly be alive. The writers better have a good explanation like a twin or something.

    • RichieS says:

      Probable scenario is Shado’s been swimming in the Lazarus Pit.

      • Mena says:

        The island was a place to destroy and recreate people to be Assasins for Argis or other entities. ie LoAs. To me, Ra’s has a purpose for Shado to manipulate Oliver, for one. Lazarus Pit will be used in the next few episodes I believe.

        • JJM says:

          But I’m referring to the flashback that took place at least 4 or 5 years when Oliver saw Shado in China. Why wouldn’t you share that knowledge with someone who’s trying to kill you over a death that never happened.

  20. m3rcnate says:

    A good episode but my biggest issue his the HUGE tv trope of the second Felicity starts falling for a guy and sleeps with him….shes now super forward and aggressive and touchy and confident and sensual with Oliver? Wtf? Im not a Olicity shipper either way or anything…but that was lame, cheap, lazy writing.

    I actually dont dislike the idea of Felicity going with Ray to the new show so The Arrow (the tv show) can get a refresh of sorts. For as long as they have Oliver be in love with her and her be a main character in the core group, the show will feel more romancy than it should.
    It the first season she just had a crush on him and he was his badass awesome self and everything was great…he liked outside characters that could be on a just a few episodes or hold their own…but lets be honest, Oliver and Felicity are NOT going to end up together, the Green Arrow is Oliver + Laurel… unless Felicity is killed off (a waste, move her to the other show instead) she will always be a romantic partner in Olivers life. The idea of Oliver being in love with Laurel and them together while Felicity is still in the Arrow-cave seems awkward, like third wheel type stuff.

    • Kat says:

      LOL, so the show is too romance-y if Oliver and Felicity get together but somehow you still want Oliver and Laurel. Hahaha. Double standards. Felicity is not going to the new show, she’s here to stay. You just said it yourself, they’ll never manage to sell Oliver falling for Laurel again with Felicity around. They’ve done everything to show how completely in love he is with Felicity. He saw her face before he ‘died,’ she’s tied to his humanity. Even in tonight’s episode she helped him make the right decision. She’s so good for him. Just because Dinah is with Green Arrow in a few comics (don’t forget they get divorced in one) doesn’t mean they have to end that way on the show.

      • m3rcnate says:

        I never said i wanted Oliver and Laurel. I said that Oliver and Laurel are all but destined to be together…they are the Clark and Lois of the Green Arrow comics (a few? need to re-read your Green Arrow comics Kat). Laurel and Oliver are Black Canary and The Green Arrow…Felicity is only what she is because the actress knocked it out of the park and fans love her/them so much the writers decided to write in this direction (they have said so themselves). Felicity is Lana Lang…pining, love, all that, but eventually I imagine something will happen and Laurel and Oliver will be the final coupling.

        For how long do you think Katie Cassidy (who was supposed to be the lead of this show alongside Stephen) is going to play second fiddle to Felicity? Felicity gets more screen time, is loved WAY more by the fans, and gets the main character as a love interest? Felicity was supposed to be a nobody character, just a cute IT girl, Katie was supposed to be the female lead… she even said during the recent PaleyFest “yeah its about time, I’ve been waiting a while (3 seasons)” in response to a question implying she finally gets to do some action and be apart of the team and actually have screen time besides being annoying, being an addict, not knowing anything that’s really going on and crying a bunch.
        There is now way in season 3 Oliver and Felicity are going to work together and it work out and it last till the end of the show, no show keeps a couple together that long. Odds are strong something happens to Felicity (shes currently the Arrows biggest weak point) and she dies and it become one of the biggest evolutionary moments for Oliver, it changes him forever…and then who’s there right by his side? The Black Canary (Laurel) who has been trained and is finally the Laurel she’s supposed to be.
        (Dont forget the writers not to long ago had Felicity? telling Laurel that Sara wasn’t right for Oliver because Sara was darkness and Oliver needs a woman who’s light, and that Laurel is light and can pull that light from Oliver)

        • Briggs says:

          Uh, when did Felicity mention Oliver to Laurel during that exchange? Because I thought the gist of it was that Laurel wasn’t Sara and shouldn’t try to be her. Oliver was irrelevant to that entire exchange. If you’re going to cite a scene, you should at least make sure that when people look it up, it won’t prove you wrong and cast a shadow over the rest of your post.

          • m3rcnate says:

            Oh you wanna bring it with videos to back it up? Two can play that game.

            “Someone that can harness that light still inside of you” said by Sara to Oliver, proof:
            “I wanted to kill Roy, I spent 6 years in the darkness, its who i am, i looked into the eyes of the devil and i gave him my soul”.
            Then not many episodes later; “You have a light inside of you that Sara never had” said by Felicity to Laurel, proof:
            What do I take from this? Is it just a coincidence that there are two sisters he loved, and one is the Black Canary (Laurel) that Oliver Queen in the comics is with (Just like Superman and Lois Lane) and the other is a “the Canary” (Sara)…that one is one he truly loved and the other is one he ran away with to sabotage the relationship with Laurel? One is darkness and not right for Oliver and the other has a light inside of her, a light that she can use to pull the light from inside of Oliver that’s in danger of being extinguished?
            I am NOT a Laure/Oliver shipper, i am not some rabid Katie Cassidy fan, or a Felicity/Emily Bett Rickards hater…but i get the distinct feeling this debate over who he ends up with is the same as people who thought Clark (Smallville) would end up with Lana instead of Lois…Clark of course ends up with Lois, no matter the connection and chemistry and history he had with Lana.
            What are the odds Oliver ends up with Felicity in season 3 or 4 and is still with her in season 6-9 when the show ends? When has a couple on the CW network (or almost any network) stayed together that long? My point is by having them get together so soon (this series could go as long as Smallville) it is almost proof that she is not who he ends up with.
            The long game with Laurel/Black Canary makes more sense. Right now shes just a friend…but thats the long game. Next season she will be training with Nissa, then she will become the official real Black Canary, then something will happen (someone dies or something) and Laurel will be there for Oliver, and then they will fall in love and be Oliver and Laurel…The Green Arrow and The Black Canary.

          • Briggs says:

            Except that, if you go to Olicity Queen’s YouTube channel, you will find many vids that refer to Feilcity as Oliver light, and in none of the clips you refer to did Sara or Felicity refer to Laurel, specifically, as Oliver’s light. Just that, in comparison, she’s ‘lighter’ than Sara. MG even stated that was the whole purpose behind the line from Felicity to Laurel *on his tumblr*. I’m sure some dedicated Olicity fan saved that somewhere and you can google it.
            Whereas, on multiple occasions, Diggle has nudged Oliver about Felicity. Barry mentioned the light inside Olver *as Felicity came in to relay some information*. Obviously a deliberate move on the part of the writers. Laurel herself said that Oliver was ‘lucky to have [Felicity]’.
            Here’s my point: The last two seasons have had little to no support for the Lauriver ship. In fact, he basically said he was over all the drama in season 2. Should, at some point, they turn it around, is anyone’s guess. Their biggest hurdle is not only that he chose to be in a relationship with her sister twice, but the secret son even he does not know exists. And the more of season 3 I see, the more convinced I am that we will meet him, sooner rather than later. There are a lot of problems in the Lauriver relationship, and I don’t see that getting better over time. Which is why I switched teams.

        • Sam says:

          As a huge Olicity fan from literally straight of the at I can honestly say I agree with you. I think Oliver and Laurel will end up together. Season 3 has proved there is nothing so original and unique about Olicity’s relationship (I hate to say it cos I was a huge advocate for them through S1-S2 on twitter and tumblr). They have petty other guy drama, they lost that natural spark and when oh when did they spend time together to fall in loooovvee. I wish we saw the missing parts of the summer where they spent all this time together and got close. That’s what this season should have been about in my opinion…regardless…

          They destroyed Oliver and Laurel, so they could start from the beginning. Even though I despised they S1, I can see them getting together now. Laurel doesn’t take any nonsense from Oliver, they will begin to fight together as their alter egos.
          They will slowly become friends, she will understand the vigilante life better than anyone.

          Laurel can bring the good out in Oliver, he said it himself through S1, how she always say the good in him. The reason O/L didn’t work is because he was ALWAYS lying.

          And I’m sorry, he can/will fall in love with her again. Laurel is a great character (I never liked her till this season) she is Dinah give it till Season 5 and they will be canon again. It makes sense.

          And this whole light symbolism, yes it is an Olicity thing however it’s seen said about Laurel too. Felicity isn’t the only goodness on the show, some fans need to stop making her out to be some kind of angel. She’s a human. That’s why I love her!

          • kath says:

            I completely understand your frustration with Oliver/Felicity because the unnecessary dramatics of this season for Ray and Ra’s have really spoiled the effortless fun of their previous relationship.
            But in terms of longterm, Oliver and Laurel spent 2 years lying to each other (not to mention toxic in the flashbacks) and fighting this season. It is with Felicity and Diggle that Oliver became a hero and now is working out his identity.

            As for when they fell in love, season 2 from the Russia episode. Or as Marc Guggenheim says when asked, read the Arrow 2.5 comics.

          • m3rcnate says:

            I agree with you agreeing with me lol. These hardcore Felicity loving responses from some superfans on here IMO are just projecting their love and desire for Olicity to be real and canon and to be what the writers/showrunner have in mind for Oliver and his love life long term (aka hes still with her and loves her in the series finale). However i disagree. I think the writers and showrunner know that Felicity is a fan favorite and that Olicity is great and a fan favorite, but they hired Katie Cassidy to do more than get background crying and pill popping scenes. She is Dinah Laurel Lance..she is the Black Canary, and she is Oliver’s original/first love, and i expect them (in a later season like 5, given their 5 year plan) to have Oliver and Laurel fall back in love with each other.
            It will be a very very slow burn where they first become friends again, then lots of working as vigilantes side by side, then some defining moment(s) will cause them to end up being together again. Its not that i wish for that or i’m a fan of Laurel or Laurel+Oliver or ANYthing like that…i just don’t think the love interest they are showing now in season 3 is going to be the official love interest of the series that lasts …3-7 more seasons until the series ends.
            You have to remember this is a business, and they didn’t hire Katie Cassidy as the lead of this show to play second fiddle to a background character that became a fan favorite as shown by her screen time, love story with the male lead, and her own story lines (everything with the Atom, the stuff with Barry, etc). She was just the actress hired for the tech chick part, they didnt plan on her becoming Oliver’s love interest or being apart of his vigilante group or anything. All the while Katie Cassidy’s character who was probably sold to her as the female lead, the love interest to the male lead, and a character that becomes a hero (Black Canary) and what did she get? Crying, being annoying, being a girlfriend to multiple male characters, being a addict, always being in the dark, and biggest of all, being strongly disliked by the fans. She didn’t sign up for that.

        • Jill says:

          They did put Oliver and Laurel into a romance in season 1. The result was they made Felicity a regular and Oliver’s love interest, and Sara became the Canary, the comic book BC in everything but name..

          As you said below, TV is a business. Who the characters are with in season 3 doesn’t mean who they will end up with (pretty sure Ray won’t end up with Felicity) but why go back to a relationship that already failed once? Most of Arrow’s viewers don’t read the comics and even some of those who do don’t want this Laurel to end up with this Oliver.

          Sara didn’t tell Oliver he needs a woman who has light, she told him he needs someone to harness the light inside of him. And then the camera cut to a shot of Felicity..

          • m3rcnate says:

            “this” Laurel…yeah exactly, i said they are going to evolve Laurel. She is going to become the BC and they are going to write her to be the perfect fit for who Oliver needs.
            To imply because a relationship failed once in the first season is reason they wont go back to it and it be the real final relationship for him? Nonsense. If anything its proof that they will go back to it. Laurel is the book-ends of Oliver, the first woman he truly loved and then everything happened in the middle and in the end its back to Laurel, but she will be the BC and evolved, having gone through HER crucible losing her sister, finding out the truth about Oliver, and so much else she has gone through.

    • Mena says:

      I think the show has shown a complete difference between Oliver and Laurel, what they were together as young adults, foolish, insecure, selfish and playboyish. They have matured and evolved into people with some similar values but see and live life differently. Laurel said to Oliver before he was ready to turn himself over to Slade that she knew him better than she knew her own name. That was the young Oliver before the island. Diggle and Felicity know the present Oliver, his weaknesses and vulnerabilities. They have helped Oliver try to be more in touch with his humanity than anyone.
      The show has become a different animal from the comics. The Arrow is a crimefighter. The Green Arrow was there for the underdog. It’s clear to me who is right for Oliver in the show. This episode showed it.

      • murley says:

        I commented on the crime fighter versus champion for the underdog distinction as well. But I am wondering if they plan to eventually move his towards that persona. I thought it was interesting that he sees himself as a protector, that is his reason for doing what he does. I am curious if, as the show and his character evolve, we will see his motivations change toward more of the Robin Hood man of the people type.

        • m3rcnate says:

          Just like with the Arrows outfit, and with the title of the show eventually going to change to The Green Arrow, the character of Oliver and the hero he becomes is evolving. They have said another change in his suit is coming, they have said expect to continue to see him evolve to becoming a version of that Green Arrow we know in the comics.

          My bet? We slowly see him evolve (sometimes being forced to by events that happen…like a character he loves getting killed) and the show ending up (in the final season) with him as the Green Arrow, hes got the goatee, hes got it all figured out. As for who’s there beside him? My bet is still Laurel as the Black Canary. Remember thats what this show was supposed to be…all this stuff with Felicity? She was just a IT girl when they wrote her, its because of the actresses performance and the fans love of her character that she is where she is. But at the end of the day Oliver and Laurel are the green arrows Clark and Lois. And Katie Cassidy signed on to be the female lead beside Stephen Amell….not be disliked by the fans (because of poor writing) and getting table scrap screen time (addiction? crying a ton? not knowing anything thats going on? etc).
          Just remember the writers wrote not too long ago (i believe this season) Felicity? talking to Laurel, talking about Sara with Oliver…and how Sara wasn’t right for him because she was darkness just like him, that he needed a woman who had light inside of her, and that Laurel has that light inside of her, and that she pulls it out of him. You might say Felicity is light as well (i’d agree) but she is also weakness. Its like Clark Kent now being with Wonder Woman instead of Lois Lane…he’s always having to rescue normal Lois Lane, always having to worry about her….not so with Wonder Woman, thats his equal, thats a “partner”. Same with the Black Canary to Oliver’s Green Arrow.

      • Kate says:

        THIS. This episode just showed how amazing Oliver and Felicity are together. He completely changes around her, he softens. He’s vulnerable. They talk. It’s beautiful. I’d also like to say that I actually like that Oliver and Laurel have grown to be two different people now. They share some similarities but who they are now is just not compatible and that’s ok. That’s real. People who were once in love grow apart. I like that. It happens. She’ll always be in his life anyway. Just as friends.

  21. Alichat says:

    “Which… rings a little hollow, in my opinion.” Agreed. I was expecting something more….sensible? meaningful? legitimate?

  22. Briggs says:

    I admit, I didn’t get around to watching Nanda Parbat (in part due to family tragedy), but they did a good job with the recap at the start, so I didn’t feel like I’d missed a thing.
    The offer… I kinda felt like he let Oliver go too easily, and the last two minutes confirmed it. Ra’s is not above forcing the issue when he wants to. The shock I felt at seeing him like that left me almost speechless. I’m totally ready for the rest of the season.
    Captain Lance has every right to be upset. At Laurel. At the rest of Team Arrow, I’m not so sure. But that’s just my opinion.
    Speaking of Laurel, I like that she came in and said, “Let me have it.” That was big of her. Unfortunately, that’s not how grief and anger work, so this is going to get worse before it gets better. Daddy issues.
    Nyssa being angry at her father was warrented, and I can see his POV. And dare I hope this means Nyssa will be part of a pseudo Birds of Prey storyline next season? I’m really hoping this is the case. And offering to train Laurel? One of the best scenes of the ep.
    To round out the Daddy Issues Hour, we have Thea. Again, she has every right to feel the way she does. Malcolm used her and clearly has no idea how to really be a parent (Moira was right to deny him access to their child). Her going to Roy made for a tense moment when we didn’t know it was her. And… they kiss. Been hoping for this all season long, not going to lie. :) I don’t know if anyone else did, but I felt the sexual tension between them. Tension resolved? We’ll see.
    Oliver getting advice from every corner was great. Because this guy has a history of making really bad decisions. Really bad decisions. Actually asking for advice shows growth. And Felicity being the one to show him the light was perfect. Once again, Emily hits it out of the park, and I couldn’t be happier.
    I’m a little surprised Diggle never mentioned the WEDDING next week, but that wasn’t his role this week. As always, Moral Support Man is always there when Oliver needs him. I would have loved to see the homecoming he got, though.
    Last note: Shado’s ALIVE?
    Can’t wait for next week. WEDDING!

  23. Rook says:

    After the police shoot out when Oliver is talking to Lance, what did he shoot his arrow into that pulled him into the completely blank sky?

  24. Imzadi says:

    I was happy to see Thea and Roy together at the end. I know he never stopped loving her, and evidently it’s mutual. That made me smile.

    • Sarah T says:

      The fact that Roy and Thea “reconciled” (or at least momentarily hooked up) makes me think that Roy is going to be a goner by season’s end which will be another catalyst for Thea going darker.

      • Nona says:

        Well you have a good theory because I read somewhere that a character will go by the end of the season. It is not said if the character will die or just leave the city and also it is not said if the character is secondary or primary.

        Some believe it could be Maseo in order for his wife to become Katana. Then others think it could be Det. Lance as well and yes some do believe it could be Roy.

  25. Gordon Rick says:

    For Matt. In this weeks Arrow, Ra’s Al Guhl is talking to Oliver and pronounces his own name as “Raysh”. The very next sentence Oliver calls him (Ra’s Al Guhl) “Rawz”. Why can ‘t the show runners settle on a pronunciation and stick with it?

  26. Shannon says:

    Over all I liked the ep.
    -I adore Ray and Felicity, have since he first showed up. They geek out together. So cute.

    -My husband and I really want Ollie to take Ra’s up on the offer because he seems like he’s in the horrible rut and nothing is going to change that save for something drastic.

    -Something an episode or two ago made me think that Akio might not actually be dead, which I had originally thought when we saw Maseo and Tatsu had separated. Time will tell.

    -Ollie’s ‘purpose’ struck me as more than just hollow, it seemed way ooc for him. It made me want him to become Ra’s even more to maybe see more of the old Ollie back.

    -I’m torn on Malcolm. I enjoy having his (and Slade’s) type of villain around. The charming one that you kinda find yourself cheering for in a twisted sort of way. While I tend to agree with everyone on the ‘why is he still alive?’ front, I just like the character so I’m willing to deal with whatever conflicts that causes.

    -The Lances. So done with their family drama. So done with Laurel.

    Looking forward to the next episode, and I really hope they avoid and Ray, Felicity and Ollie drama. There is enough of that type of awkwardness on the Flash.

  27. stanisloski101 says:

    While there’s an obvious Batman rip-off going on here, Arrow is a far more plausible successor for Ras than Batman.
    Arrow has been a killer, not sharing Batman’s ‘No-Killing-No-Matter-What” ethos.
    Also, the show has done a great disservice to the Laurel character as we all know, but I do like the new Nyssa dynamic.
    I think them hooking up is a great alternative to the strained attempts at ‘Laulliver’.

  28. Shelly says:

    “You still need training.” “When are you going to stop telling me that?” “When you no longer need training.” LOL!!!

  29. brenna says:

    I wasn’t expecting to enjoy this episode much, but I was very pleasantly surprised. The action scenes were fun, especially where they were all fighting together, along with Nyssa, at the precinct. I also thought the characters acted more like the characters we know and love, rather than the bizarro versions (see Lego Justice League movie. LOL!). Once again, SA is very good at reflecting emotions with his facial expressions. That last scene with Felicity when her phone rang, the way Oliver looked at the phone was LOL funny. I have agreed that the anger between all the characters has been too much, but tonight gave me a little hope that they will be getting past all of that. Based on what the EP’s have said, I am worried about how this show is going to end up by the end of the season. I know shows have to change and progress, but don’t take away the good things please!

    • Nona says:

      Well Brenna I am also worried and even more beacuse it looks like a character will leave the city or die. I mean it is not said if the character is a primary or secondary just I read that someone will go and it could be by dying or leaving the city.

      I wonder who it wil be.

  30. Nona says:

    How come Shado is alive? I mean the Hong Kong flahsbacks happened after Olliver left the island and Shado was alreayd dead time before. So maybe Ra’s went to the island and found Shado was not really dead, and she took her into his wing and that is why Ollie saw her in China because that is where Ra’s left Shado for a reason?

    Does anyone know how many LOA members there are? Besides Nyssa, are there other women in the league? Since they are all covered in masks and you can hardly see their faces, what if Shado is one of the LOA members and Ra’s used his pit to heal Shado after all what happened to her in the island?

    • Arsenal says:

      It can’t actually be Shado. If it is, Season 2 goes out the window. Not to mention, it’d be Sara all over again.

  31. 134sc says:

    “Now he does the thing he does for the families of police officers counting on Team Arrow to get the boys in blue home safe. Which… rings a little hollow, in my opinion.”

    I believe he was referring to keeping everybody safe, not just the police.

    The episode itself was solid, but some of the dialogue in it was fantastic. There are many examples, but the one I will point out was when Lance was talking to The Arrow close to the beginning of the episode. What he says and how he says it was very well done.

  32. Ram510 says:

    Because whereas the lighter, brighter The Flash let loose Tuesday night with an hour that closed with a breathless, almost manic final 10 minutes, Arrow — by the nature of the storyline at hand, I suppose — needed to be talkier, more brooding.

    And that’s exactly why I like The Flash so much better than Arrow! The Flash might be the best show on TV right now, sorry Scandal and Empire

  33. Georgia Madman says:

    Best episode in a long time. Smiling when it was over and wondering what Ras is up to. And no more breaks between episodes! It’ll be a wild ride to the finish.

  34. Essie says:

    It would be really cool to see Nyssa train Laurel and to maybe see them bond and form a sort of friendship. Shado alive???! Now that is twist I never saw coming, I wonder how.

  35. Sam says:

    Oliver and Felicity’s relationship has become tiring and unoriginal.

    Season 3 ruined them not because they aren’t together or anything but because they magically fell in love between end of S2 and beginning of S3.

    The writers, especially Marc Guggenheim who panders to fans. I hate it – he should take a leaf from Jason Rothenberg’s book and have some integrity. Couples can’t cover up a flawed show and Arrow is having a seriously flawed season.

    And this is coming from an Olicity fan.

  36. Bettina says:

    Notable quote: “You know, you’re always saying how you just want me to be happy.. well, the thing is, as long as you’re in my life, I AM.” #OLICITY4EVA!