Arrow Boss on Oliver vs. New Team Dynamic, Felicity's Status, 'Love Letter' to Fans and Game-Changing Twist

Arrow Preview Oliver Laurel Felicity

Oliver Queen has returned to a new Team Arrow.

Having being “dead” for a month, Oliver resurfaced to help knock down Danny “Brick” Brickwell and save the Glades. Afterward, he found a moment to survey the new landscape (Laurel has gone full Canary!) and then he clashed with his No. 1 gal Felicity, who declared that she doesn’t want to be loved by a man who would ally with the likes of Malcolm Merlyn.

With Season 3 of the CW hit continuing this Wednesday at 8/7c, TVLine invited showrunner Marc Guggenheim to tease the assorted changes — and at least one huge twist — ahead.

TVLINE | I feel like we’re entering the “third act” of the season, following Sara’s murder and that investigation, and then Oliver “dying” at Ra’s al Ghul’s hand, to protect Thea.
The season is more demarcated in fourths, as opposed to the traditional three-act structure. Certainly Episodes 10, 11 and 12 were their own”mini-act,” with Team Arrow moving on in the wake of Oliver’s apparent death. Episode 13 kicks off the next piece of our story, and things get a really crazy from here on out. Episodes 13, 14 and 15 are probably the next “book” or movement in the story, 15 ends with a game-changing twist, and from 16 to 23 it’s just one crazy run up to the finish line. [Laughs] I’m really excited about where we’re going mainly because, as I tweeted out, when all is said and done with Season 3, stabbing Oliver through the chest and kicking him off a cliff will end up being the least crazy thing we do all year. I encourage people to watch the whole season and then confirm whether or not I’m telling the truth.

TVLINE | Is Oliver able to just jump back into things? The team has come into its own while he was away. Does that almost become a sticking point?
It’s very much a sticking point. One big piece of Episode 13 is Laurel and all the things that she’s been struggling with — Sara’s death, lying to Quentin, Oliver’s disapproval of her being Black Canary. Meanwhile, you’ve got Oliver who has returned to Starling City and Team Arrow to discover that they have really moved on without him. Left BehindSo, things are not going to be as simple as, “OK, guys I’m back! Everyone start listening to me again.” He’s going to struggle with a brand-new team dynamic, one that is a lot more democratic than he is used to.

TVLINE | Is he going to take over Laurel’s training?
No, he’s not there yet. He begins Episode 13 very much not approving, at all, of what Laurel’s doing, so it’s a long way to go from that to training her, which obviously implies a degree of validation.

TVLINE | Besides, he’s on his own path now, as far as training to kill Ra’s.
Exactly. He’s got bigger fish to fry.

TVLINE | Now, even though that is his goal, I can’t imagine that the TV show Arrow can kill the Ra’s al Ghul character. I suspect larger forces at DC Comics wouldn’t want that to happen.
The truth of the matter is that DC is our partner, and they’ve been a wonderful partner. They’ve never told us who has to die or who has to live — and I don’t anticipate that changing any time soon. What we do with Ra’s as far as whether or not he lives or dies will be based solely on a creative decision that we make for the good of the show, and has nothing to do with the greater forces at DC.

TVLINE | Plus, with someone like Ra’s, “dies” probably always comes with quotation marks.
Certainly given the Lazarus Pit and what’s happened in the comic books and what not….

TVLINE | Where in the sand has Felicity drawn her line? Is she still with the team…?
She’s still with the team. She’s not going anywhere, but she’s made it very clear that a romance with Oliver is off the table.

TVLINE | That scene was an unanticipated gut punch, I tell you.
Thank you — it was definitely designed to be. We very much want to explore what it looks like with Felicity still working with Oliver but post the events of Episodes 10, 11 and 12, where she has not only moved on romantically,Arrow Preview Oliver Laurel Felicity but, along with Diggle and Roy, has developed a bit more ownership and more agency in the “lair,” as it were. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens if Oliver decides to call the shots and expects everyone to just fall in line the way they used to.

TVLINE | I was reading the synopsis for Episode 14, “The Returned,” and it sounds like a fun nod to longtime fans, as Flashback Oliver sneaks back into Starling City and discreetly checks in on everyone.
Episode 14 is a bit of a “love letter” to the show. It stands on its own feet, for people who are new to the show, but if you’ve been watching since Season 1, it’s got a ton of Easter eggs and little inside jokes. There’s a lot of really fun moments that are the kind of things you can only do if you’ve done over 50 episodes — you get to go back and explore your roots a little bit, so you’ll want to watch this episode carefully. My hope is that if people watch the show now but haven’t seen Season 1, they’ll want to go back and Netflix it afterwards.

TVLINE | Stephen Amell was telling me that Episode 15, “Nanda Parbat,” is especially stunt- and action-heavy, one of his favorites of the season.
It certainly is one of mine. It’s one of those episodes where everything came together very nicely — its got some wonderful character moments, some incredible action, and it’s got a final twist that I think people will be talking about for a long time. Certainly a twist that sets the table for the remainder of the season.

Want more scoop on Arrow, or for any other show? Email insideline@tvline.com and your question may be answered via Matt’s Inside Line.

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

214 Comments
  1. Zorkel says:

    So in Episode 15 Oliver goes to Nanda Parbat to save Malcolm Merlyn from Ra’s al Ghul. The episode ends with a game-changing twist. Oliver, Malcolm, Ra’s, Nanda Parbat, and possibly a Lazarus Pit. My guess for the final twist is Tommy Merlyn, alive again.

  2. spindae2 says:

    Great interview! And while I’m still pissed over the decision to train with Malcolm, it seems like Oliver’s “children” hit puberty and will start rebel against him.

  3. Joey Padron says:

    Good interview with Marc. Excited to see what’s coming up in new episodes!

  4. DL says:

    Manu Bennett as Deathstroke last year was so absolutely brilliant that it’s been hard to compare the current season. That said, it’s certainly had its own twists and turns, ups and downs, and I’m still totally on board with Team Arrow.
    Ra’s is just not as dastardly a villain; he’s not really a villain at all, just a man with his own morals, looking out for his own people. And now that Malcolm Merlyn is on a road to redemption, we’re left without a real big bad.
    Hope that someone steps in to fill Deathstroke’s shoes soon, although I love the characters enough that I’ll watch either way.

  5. joe says:

    Folks noted in last weeks recap that Olicity is no more and many clamored back that it was just the beginning. This interview would suggest othwise. I’ve said a lot of times, the writers and producers have no intention of bring Olicity to fruition.

    • wonderwall says:

      You must be new to the CW :p

    • wentspeedup says:

      trust me when i say, Olicity will happen ! By the end of the season it will be real hahah.

    • a says:

      Lol have you watched Tv? It’s very formulaic. They aren’t bringing them together until the finale. It’s how TV works. You don’t get the main couple together in a random episode mid season. It’s a sweeps thing. They did this to draw out their reunion and have them grow individually and stronger and then come together. Marc always plays both sides. It’s his job. We call him a troll for a reason. At this point Felicity does not want a romantic relationship anymore but THAT WILL CHANGE!

      • SLP says:

        Felicity is what Chloe (or even Lana) was to Clark in Smallville. But, we all knew it wasn’t going to work out. It’s Clark & Lois forever. If Oliver ends up with anyone, it will be Laurel and that’s just the way it is.

        • Briggs says:

          Stop using Smallville as an example. Chloe married Oliver in the end. It does not shore up your argument they way you intended.

        • Karen says:

          Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you on that part! It’s very clear to see that Oliver and Laurel no longer have those kind of feelings for each other anymore! Their relationship now is more like being very good friends, who deeply care for each other, but without being sexually intimate with each other! Nah! Oliver and Laurel? Not happening! Just because of what happened on last week’s Arrowl the Olicity haters are pridefully making the assumptions that the Olicity ship has been permanently sunk for good! Nobody! I repeat, Nobody, would surely know the answer to that question! I do know this though, the writers of the show would absolutely be off their rockers if they didn’t go back to pick up Oliver and Felicity’s relationship with full force! All the criticism that has been said against Felicity and Oliver having a romantic relationship is so ridiculously stupid! We all know that Oliver loves Felicity, because he has told her so and us too! Lol! Felicity? Yes, Felicity loves Oliver! The haters keep on saying that Oliver and Felicity have nothing in common, or no kind of sexual connection! Most people think that having sex is all there is to a relationship! Sorry you’re wrong! The 2 characters, Oliver and Felicity, compliment each other, and they share such a beautiful bond! They have something I wish I had in my marriage in the real world! LOL! I watched Arrow S1 & S2 on Netflix, and by using the internet, I watch S3 on my tablet! I have watched each season about 3-4 times from the beginning up to S3 E13! Oliver/Stephen and Felicity/Emily have an awesome chemistry connection! I have cried rivers of tears when I watch these two! To rest my case, if two actors connect to the viewers emotions like they can, I consider that Oliver and Felicity do have a chance as a couple! There is only one other TV series that has moved me emotionally like this, and that is Beauty And The Beast starring Jay Ryan and Kristin Kreuk!

        • lynn82 says:

          I agree!! Everyone has many so called loves, but we only have one true love and Laurel is Oliver’s one true love!!

    • murley says:

      Marc Guggenheim also stated emphatically that Oliver was dead and didn’t concede any possibility he was alive, even though we all knew he would be. Who knows the endgame for Oliver and Felicity but Guggenheim is totally spoiler adverse so I wouldn’t take this interview of an indicator of anything other than what is currently happening.

  6. wrstlgirl says:

    I find the lying to Quentin about Sara so irritating. Why can’t they just tell him the truth. It’s not like he’s gonna scream it from the roof tops. And yeah, I know he’s been ill and what not but I’m pretty sure he could handle it.

    • John NYC says:

      They keep doing close-ups of him taking “pills”, the implication being he’s still sick, so maybe not quite ready. It’s a disservice to the man but the foundation of avoiding over stressing some one with an ongoing heart condition has a certain logic.

      But it cannot but come back to bite a lot of people in the ass when he learns how LONG she’s been dead… “but Daddy you were sick” is just not going to cut it.

    • Jay says:

      ME TOO. I can’t believe it’s episode 13 and he still doesn’t know! I hate how they’ve hidden it from him. It makes me so angry.

    • There is no justification for lying to him.

      • Caleb says:

        I agree. If he can handle the stresses of being a cop then he should be able to take the news. Heck, if it were serious enough, Laurel could tell her father in the cafeteria of the hospital so he wouldn’t have to go far to the ER.

      • Sil says:

        He’s the Capt who has all kinds of stress in his command. This is the most ridiculous story line for him and Laurel. I’m not acknowledging this as a real story because IMO it makes no sense.

  7. Jeśli dom już wcześniej był oszalowany, czyli obity deskami, albo
    ma ozdobne (rzeźbione, malowane) okiennice, opaski okienne
    lub drzwiowe, wzorzyste deski gzymsowe czy węgłowe, to przed
    ocieplaniem warto te elementy ostrożnie zdemontować, naprawić i odświeżyć.

  8. Johnny says:

    While I would love it if tommy comes back, if they really wanted to make a “twist”, make Felicity Ra’s al Ghul’s daughter.

  9. Briggs says:

    I’m excited to see the new dynamic. I knew Felicity wasn’t going anywhere. And that Oliver wouldn’t suddenly want to train Laurel. I suspect she’ll be sparring with Roy and work her way up through the season. And I may be the only one, but I’m actually excited to see Oliver train with Merlyn and what that does for his character. And of course (not mentioned in the article) the Diggle/Lyla wedding! I admit to loving weddings, but this one will be fun to watch, no matter what happens..

    • John NYC says:

      I have to admit it would be more fun for me if Lyla’s relationship to A.R.G.U.S. didn’t twist my stomach quite so much.

      • Briggs says:

        I know, I know. And for what its worth, I have the same misgivings. I just have a thing about weddings. And there’s opportunity for plenty of light moments. I have this image of someone asking Roy where he got a suit. :)

  10. John NYC says:

    Despite my misgivings (comics???) this show just grows and grows on me.

  11. Jill says:

    It’s more than just that Diggle, Roy and Felicity have become more independent since Oliver has been gone, it’s also that he’s come back making a decision that Diggle and Felicity feel is a very bad one.

    Hopefully things will get very interesting on that front.

  12. Sarah says:

    It won’t make me stop watching because I’m excited to see where the rest of the season goes (well, except for Ray), but I honestly hope last week was not the end of Olicity for good. And no, my dislike of Ray has nothing to do with Olicity. He just really really annoys me. LOL

  13. Dmac says:

    So, it seems the rest of the season will be about Team Arrow dumping of Oliver, well that sounds like fun. Not! His team fights a few fights and suddenly are empowered,? Really, if I recall they didn’t do a very good job of it.

    As for Felicity, I am getting sick of MG putting her on a pedistal, when did the Arrow become the B storyline?

    • Kate says:

      The Arrow became a B storyline when they decided to make Laurel BC and focus too much on Ray – both instant heroes. It’s nothing to do with Felicity.

      • Felicity is nothing more than a love object at this stage she has no layers her backstory ep was the worst the show has ever produced 2

        • Sam says:

          Lol. The worst episode was the flashback episode in season 2 “The Promise.” Terrible hour of television.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            You mean the episode where Slade, Oliver, and Sara raid the Amazo? That was an awesome action packed episode. Nowhere near being the worst. There may be a worse episode of Arrow, but Felicity’s episode was awful. Nothing was illuminated, her relationship with her mother was trite, and her dumb boyfriend was a crappy villain.

        • wonderwall says:

          The worst episode is subjective. I personally thought it was 3×11 that was the worst.

          And lol you need to rewatch the entire show if you think Felicity is just a love interest. The team wouldn’t be able to operate without her. And as diggle once said, Felicity is irreplaceable.

          I feel like some people just decide felicity has no layers then refuse to budge when the show actually shows that she has multiple layers. Because Imo felicity has grown so much as a character this season.

        • Sherif says:

          Get real. Felicity is the only character who doesn’t pretend to be someone she is not. She has a very large fan base so I guess thousands of people are wrong about thinking she I awesome and you are right, Ya right!

        • Jill says:

          Felicity was the one standing up to Malcolm Merlyn. Diggle supported her but that was after she pointed out what a stupid idea it is to work with him. She’s the one telling Ray you can’t get someone back by building a suit.

          She has more layers than Thea or Roy have at this point (and IMO more than Lauel).

          • Oliver fan. says:

            She and Oliver have grown as characters the most. She possesses and speaks of the principles and morals that Oliver chooses to live by and reminds him of them. Dig is the wisdom that Oliver listens to. Even Oliver has said they helped change into a better person. She was the one to make a stand in their lair to Malcolm. She was the one who spoke her mind about he was the cause of all that had transpired. To me she asserted herself as spokesman. Quite gutsy, strong, assertive, and demonstrative to stand up to Malcolm.

        • lynn82 says:

          I agree 100%

      • Rob Watkins says:

        She’s not an instant hero at all. She’s not that physically adept. Her most effective maneuvers have been Sara’s screeching device and a knee to the groin.

        • Sam says:

          I’m sorry but she is. Oliver is still not Green Arrow and yet Sara dies and 8 episodes later, Laurel is wearing her leather suit. And not all of her maneuvers have been bad. She was really adept in some scenes. There’s no continuity at all. It’s a mess.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Oliver has the skills, just not the entire persona. So because he hasn’t added Green to his name, he’s not done changing, but just because Laurel puts on a suit, she’s an insta-hero? Absolutely ridiculous. She’s okay in some scenes but rarely does a fight scene go by when you don’t see that she’s clearly a novice. She tried to land on that truck and she tripped. She’s not adept at using Sara’s bo staff, so she changed to batons. She’s gotten cut several times. She has some skill but she’s always had fighting skills. You hate Laurel and you will make up anything to justify it despite what’s right in front of your face. The only think I will give you is that the jump out the window onto the ladder. Other than that, she constantly makes mistakes, and is not the insta-hero you are claiming in spite of evidence that you seem to be evading.

          • Sam says:

            Reply to Rob Watkins: I don’t hate Laurel. I hate her storyline and how it’s being handled. She shouldn’t be BC until season 4 at least. And don’t presume anything about me based on a comment I kept short on purpose. Thanks. Goodbye.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Just because she’s in the suit doesn’t mean she’s not still learning. Putting on a costume doesn’t mean they are necessarily expert fighters. Learning on the job is interesting TV. I don’t know why you have this idea that only when a person is fully trained can they become a costumed vigilante.

          • murley says:

            I feel like there is a parallel. Oliver has the suit but is not yet green arrow. Laurel also has the suit and actually is also not yet black canery. I feel like this is an early step on her journey. Aren’t they referring to her as canary and not black canery yet? In the show that is? When I started watching this show, when it began, I came into it from the comics invested in BC and GA. I was excited when they revealed she was DINAH Laurel Lance. But over time I started not liking the character as much even though I kept trying to. And I definitely stopped rooting for her and Oliver. I was really skeptical of the Oliver and Felicity thing for a long time but when he told her they took the wrong girl, in the mansion scene, I suddenly realised I was totally invested in them. So I really hope they go there with that relationship. And I hope Laurel, who’s story I am enjoying, continues her slow steady journey to BLACK Canery.

      • holly says:

        exactly!!

    • kelly says:

      Agreed. Nice welcome home, huh? I much prefer them working together, not turning on Oliver.

    • Carla Krae says:

      They’ve been without Oliver for a while month, and knowing Roy, he’s been out there every night. They’ve not dumping Oliver, but they won’t just take orders without question anymore. They’ve built a dynamic between them and gotten used to a new normal. Oliver will have to adjust before things can settle into the next new normal.

      • Dmac says:

        A month? That isn’t enough time to form a cohesive anything and if I remember correctly they weren’t that good at it. So now Arrow is their backup?

        I don’t mind Felicity disagreeing with Oliver’s decision, what irritated me is that she walked away without listening to his reasons. She had no idea what he has been through or the fact he possibly has tried to think of another way and this is only option. She became the judge and jury without actually discussing it with him. Felecity views the world in black and white terms but the rest of them live in the gray. Even Diggle teamed up with Deadshot, the man who killed his wife.

        I am tired of Oliver being the punching bag.

        • Karen says:

          I agree also, on how viewers are always wanting to kick Oliver down so fast because of him asking Merlyn/Merlin to train him how to kill the Ra??? guy! OMG! Oliver was practically dead, and he still had not completely healed up yet! I am so angry right now because of how episode 12 ended! I am a very huge Olicity fan! I was completely shocked, and caught off guard when Felicity told Oliver that she did not want to be a woman he loved! I felt like, how Oliver looked, like he had been stabbed in the heart! I couldn’t believe the way they all responded when Oliver walked in the lair! I mean, they all thought the man was dead because they had not heard from him in 1 month, and they were just acting casual! If I had been Felicity? OMG! I would’ve grabbed on to him like white on rice, and never let go of him again! I do understand her concerns, because Merlyn needs to be put down in a grave! The man is an evil, slivering snake! He drugged his own daughter, and had her kill Sara, bad thing is she still doesn’t know it! I know one thing, if there’s no hopeful signs of Oliver and Felicity getting together as a couple in the upcoming episodes I’m probably going to stop watching the Arrow! I have been so intrigued, and moved so much emotionally just by watching Oliver gradually fall in love with Felicity! I’m speaking the truth when I say this, I have cried rivers and oceans of tears just watching them encourage, compliment, protect, show compassion, and more for each other! Oliver has changed for the better because of Felicity, and I believe the characters should be together as a couple! If you haven’t noticed or not, but Oliver really didn’t show a whole lot of emotions while he was in his other relationships, like he has been since he fell in love with Felicity! In my opinion these 2 characters, Oliver and Felicity should have that chance to have a relationship with each other! They complete each other!
          OLICITY ALWAYS AND FOREVER! SHIP OLICITY ALK THE WAY! Oliver deserves to have happiness and the love of his life, his girl Felicity Smoak! Oh yeah, I really don’t care if Laurel becomes the Black Canary or not, I just want her to stay away from Oliver, that’s Felicity’s man!

        • wsk says:

          Oh I am SO glad I am not the only one out there thinking this!! Felicity IS wrong, but they are totally (the show AND the fandom) Mary Sue-ing her so that she never does any wrong and Oliver is always wrong and how the hell does he become a hero if that is how it always going to be?!? I mean jeesh, he just came back from nearly being killed and he knows far more than any of the rest of the so called ‘team’ about Ra’s and the LoA etc so I would think they should listen to him. Maybe discuss it, but when you have someone who knows more than you you defer to their knowledge. And I say so called team cause every team needs a leader and Oliver is that or at least was and you have to listen to your leader, that does not mean there isn’t discussion and that the leader makes all the decisions, but Felicity didn’t do that at all. Ugh.

    • lynn82 says:

      We are both agreed there.

  14. James D says:

    great interview. really looking forward to watching the final slew of episodes this show is very good at building up to big finishes. But please don’t let Ollie train Laurel it is just so wrong it makes me cry a little. I’m all for taking liberation with the cannon in fact them doing so with GA had rekindled my interest in re-reading some of his comics and getting into his 52’s but him training the BC is just too much Laurel should leave Starling and train under someone else and then come back in season 4 and be a total BAMF, Just my opinion. Anyway can’t wait to see what happens especially with the game-changing twist. what could it be? return of Tommy? the death of a main character? I have a bad feeling it’s the latter.

  15. Blah says:

    At this point the arrow writers have completely lost me as a viewer. I’ll keep reading about the show hoping it becomes a good show again but I won’t hold my breath

  16. m3rcnate says:

    Its a crime to not ask and get clarity on how Oliver survived without the L-pit. He was stabbed clean through the gut/chest…was pushed off a 60 foot cliff to land on ledge (so landed on rock), and is down there for…at least what? 12 hours? And he survives because the Asian chick has some ground up herbs and a bandage? And his “will to live”? LMAO WHAT?! I mean i get its a comic book show but either have the balls to kill him and then put him in the L-pit or dont have the conditions of his death be so drastic. They might have well just shot him in the face and thrown him off the Space Needle and then give him a Multi-Vitamin and him start healing and be able to walk in 72 hours. LMAO.

  17. wellcon3456 says:

    Please send Felicity off to the ATOM spinoff, I am so sick of that blonde IT immature chick who has turned her back on Oliver Queen twice now. Enough is enough, I am so done with her crying and whining.

    • Kay says:

      Oliver deserved to have her turn her back on him last week. He’s being stupid teaming up with the man who destroyed the glades, killed Tommy, and turned Thea into a murderer.

      Women who show emotion too much for you? Pathetic.

      • Rob Watkins says:

        It’s either learn from Malcolm or die by Ra’s al Ghul’s hand. His options suck, but he’s not stupid. Felicity isn’t being principled, she’s being dogmatic.

        • Kay says:

          If he can learn stuff from Malcolm, why doesn’t Malcolm just go and fight Ra’s himself, seeing as he’s such an all-knowing teacher and it was his blood debt in the first place. Oh, and he’s the one who made Thea a murderer. Please. This is all a big ploy and Felicity was simply refusing to bow down to his stupidness. It’s gonna bite him on the ass big time. Whatever I say you’ll disagree with because you clearly dislike Felicity. That’s your prerogative but I am 100% on her side. Oliver is being foolish after everything Malcolm has done.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Because Malcolm isn’t suicidal. He’d rather not risk losing to Ra’s which is a likely possibility, hence what he did with Oliver. Of course it’s a big ploy, but Oliver has said he’s aware and keeping one eye open. There is a likelihood this will bite Oliver in the ass, but it’s either the possibility of betrayal or the certainty of death. What the hell else can Oliver do to defeat Ra’s?

            “Whatever I say you’ll disagree with because you clearly dislike Felicity.” And that’s why we’ll probably always disagree. You disagree with me solely on those ground, and grounds that aren’t even true. I like her a lot, it’s her fans and the melodrama that bother me.

          • Kay says:

            Um, no Rob. I’m disagreeing with you on the grounds that Malcolm is bad and Oliver is being a dumb*ss by joining forces with him and you don’t think so. That’s where we’re disagreeing here. I don’t think he has one eye open at all. I think he’s desperate and making poor choices. And I mentioned Felicity because pretty much every comment you’ve left here has a clear bias against her. Forgive me if I don’t see your so-called like for her all that clearly.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            And yet, you have still not answered the question, what else could Oliver do? You haven’t answered that, you just say she’s right. I like her point, and like it when characters have clashing philosophies, but I think she’s wrong. It’s either this or die. It’s two terrible options, but at least it’s better than lay down and die on “principle”.

            “And I mentioned Felicity because pretty much every comment you’ve left here has a clear bias against her. Forgive me if I don’t see your so-called like for her all that clearly.”
            Wrong, I have a bias against her fans who think she walks on water. I liked her a lot the previous two seasons, but when she’s melodramatic, she’s not as interesting.

          • Kay says:

            I didn’t realize I had to answer and respond to everything you’ve said but ok. Oliver could ask Maseo for help. He could tell his sister the truth about her father and they could send Malcolm to Ra’s seeing as he’s to blame. That would certainly help. Felicity said in season 2 that there’s always another way, they just have to figure out what that way is first but Oliver didn’t even consider that. He didn’t even think to get in touch with his team and discuss it first. He made the decision and it was the wrong one. And I never said I knew the answer, just that I think Felicity was fair to stand up for herself and what she believed in. BTW, Stephen Amell was at a comic con this past weekend and even he said that Felicity didn’t storm out but she ‘dropped a truth bomb and walked away.’ So even he thinks/knows she was in the right.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            It’s not about you having to answer everything, it’s the main point I’ve been making. Oliver’s options suck, and Malcolm is one of a two fighters he knows with the skills to teach him. Maseo’s in the League, he doesn’t have the time and if he’s smart, he won’t piss off Ra’s and cause him to go after him. Maseo can’t come and go as he pleases without worrying about the League coming after him. And good luck contacting Maseo in Nanda Parbat.

            Good luck sending Malcolm to Ra’s al Ghul and proving Thea was the killer. That still doesn’t help Thea. Ra’s has a code, and she broke it, even if it was against her will, Ra’s doesn’t care.

            I hate “there’s always another way” because no there isn’t.

            Yes, Felicity was right to say what she believe, though she also didn’t listen at all to Oliver. Hell, he told her he couldn’t contact her to tell her he was alive, and she later complained about him not being able to contact her. Either the writers wrote a bad line, or she was too emotional. I like conflict of ideology, but so much of that scene was her being shrill, not listening, and making the scene about the romantic melodrama instead of a scene where two people disagree about philosophies.

            If you were in Oliver’s situation, do you either die at Ra’s al Ghul’s hand or suck it up and work with Malcolm to improve your skills with a blade? Maybe there will end up being a third option but the “there’s always another way” is just asinine. It’s a hack writers way of getting characters out of a tough situation they create, often using a deus ex machine. In real life, options sometimes suck.

          • Kay says:

            Well I don’t think Oliver has all the options right now. He will eventually but he’s making snap judgments all for plot reasons and it shows. And IMO, Oliver was the one who made it about their romance when he asked ‘about us you mean.’ Felicity was furious that he was working with Malcolm. End of. Anyway, I’m done talking with you about this. You’re just repeating yourself now and it’s boring.

          • John NYC says:

            “Only the student can defeat the master”. That’s been repeated a number of times. Malcom might want to think about that while he trains his STUDENT, Oliver.

            Perhaps Oliver showing up with Malcom’s head on a stick at the gates of Nanga Parbat would settle down Ra’s Al Ghul?

            Okay that would annoy Thea but hey, omelettes and all….

          • Oliver fan. says:

            But, there are other options for Malcolm to do. 1. Fight his own battle with Ra’s. 2. Thea has more sword training than Oliver. She might be a ploy. 3. Oliver needs to set his sights on a goal. Right now he sees no other options. We’ll see what transpires between now and next several episodes to have a better assessment of what is the best thing for Oliver to do. And what Thea should do. What should happen to Malcolm. Let him come clean to Ra’s and take what he deserves. Right now Malcolm is manipulating Oliver, Thea and the Arrow team. In the next few episodes it would be nice to see that element be reciprocated. I’d love for Malcolm have manipulation be turned onto him. He made his bed, he needs to lie in it. Or, he created his own mess, now he needs to lie in it. I really want him to eat crow and choke on it. Please, don’t redeem the guy.
            Oliver has made all kinds of strides in being a better person since his return. That was due to Diggle and Felicity. She made him see there were other choices. Nothing was black and white. He is the Arrow but still has a lot to learn about himself and the choices he makes. He cannot stay dictatorial in the lair. This is his humble pie time. As for decisions how to fight Ra’s, he needs to consider all options, not just Merlyn. He needs to seek those out first. These next episodes will be that path. I agree with Felicity. About his commitment to Malcolm without trying to find another way. Don’t forget about all the dead and the evil craziness and that he is not to be trusted. Oliver, I believe will see other options come to light. He will see he has others to back him and not just put them aside without their imput. He hasn’t always made good choices. He’ll soon find out his choice to train with Malcolm will not be either. Thea has shown she is a pretty fierce swordsman. I’d like to see where they take her. I’m going to be positive about these growing pains for Oliver but also the Arrow team. As for Ray, he is a plot point for Felicity to grow. Not the other way. He might get his own series, but, I see him as a funny quirky guy who wants to be fighter to save the city, but, has no where with all how to be one. Felicity needs to have this guy show her that there is life outside of her love for Oliver, that she has a purpose to help Ray facilitate the atom suit. This is where Felicity knows how vital she is not only to the Arrow lair, but, Ray’s invention to become a public service. This way she can find out what she is and needs. This season is about all their identities and how they find themselves. When Oliver does find his true calling he will become the Green Arrow with comrades at his side equal to the tasks. Season 4 could be the start of what all of you who’ve in comic books.
            And, I hope that Oliver will come full circle in knowing his purpose, abilities, choices, and whom he truly loves and wants to be with. I’m hoping for Felicity, but, we’ll see where the story goes. But, IMO, we will know and see these this season.

    • wonderwall says:

      Just because felicity disagrees with Olivers choices doesn’t mean she’s against him or is immature. Oliver isn’t God and his decisions aren’t always right. Felicity had every right to call him out on that just like diggle would if he had spoken up. Felicity has shown more maturity and strength by walking away from Oliver than anyone else on this show.

      • John NYC says:

        Refusing to listen to a person she disagrees with is far from a sign of maturity.

      • Dmac says:

        Walking away before Oliver can explain why is the opposite of mature. Not once did Felicity ask the person she supposedly loved what are his reasons. Of course she got mad at him for not calling really???

    • brenna says:

      Actually Diggle, who is one of my favorite characters, has turned his back on Oliver and left the team in anger at least twice that I can remember. And no one ever got angry with him, or acted like he was a traitor. The mature thing would be to recognize that they are all different people who see things differently, and yet they always come back together and care about each other.

      • Oliver fan. says:

        This. Oliver didn’t keep his promise to Diggle and help get the guy who killed his brother. Several Argis agents died then. Oliver as we all know has his faults and then some. Diggle and Felicity helped him grow and be a better person thru the seasons. Oliver made a choice in haste, not really researching all the options so that he doesn’t compromise his values and beliefs. Felicity just reminded him of that. Besides, as lovable as Oliver is, he does make choices on the spur of the moment without thinking about the long run of circumstances. 1. The Huntress. 2. Allowing Diggle to leave disgruntled and hurt by Oliver’s lack of concern to keep his promise season 1. Just to name a couple.

    • Deem says:

      Dream on… Like Marc said ” She’s not go anywhere” . And She’s immature for what? Stood up what she believes like Diggle did? Man, i think you dont know interpretation means… but you always can quit the show kkk

    • Sherif says:

      Then stop watching. Felicity is here to stay. How many times didn’t Oliver “stab her in the back” it’s payback even though I am a huge Olicity fan

  18. Anon says:

    the only thing that could make this show better, is Felicity leaving to join Atom on that spinoff.

    She has gone from amusing to annoying….it’s time to move on.

    • Sammy says:

      Felicity is wonderful. I’m happy they’re so different sides to her character instead of being happy and babbling all the time. And she’s been through a lot, Oliver pushed her away and then she thought he was dead. It would be bad if she didn’t show emotion. LOVE HER.

      And that Atom spin off is never gonna happen.

      • Oliver fan. says:

        I love her too. So refreshing and is the rock or foundation of stability, reason, knowledge researcher, and moral reminder to Oliver that there are other ways to get the same outcome. Not only that, but, Oliver relies her, considers her a partner and a friend whom he loves and respects. I don’t know if anyone noticed how Diggle side eyed Oliver when Felicity left him standing there. I don’t think Diggle or Roy agreed with him either. It was Felicity who has the gumption to confront Oliver on his lack of following his principles. He made a choice in haste. And many times when he does that he is sorry and regrets doing that.

    • Ms Thing says:

      Tired of Felicity. So sick of her drama.

    • Jay says:

      FELICITY FOR THE WIN!

    • Trish says:

      Felicity isn’t going anywhere. Nice try. You want to talk about what’s needed to “save” Arrow, there’s a long list of names that take priority over Felicity Smoak to take their leave and get the show back on track. Felicity happens to be one of the rare likable and enjoyable characters on Arrow outside of Oliver, Diggle and Quentin.

      • Anon says:

        Felicity isn’t likable tho….she’s annoying and whiny.

        …and honestly, even that wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t for the shippers.

    • wonderwall says:

      Felicity has grown to be a character who’s so much more than ‘amusing’. In the last episode she challenged Oliver and his decisions, she went head to head with malcolm and decided that he wasn’t worth the time or the effort to team up with, Felicity and diggle were the only ones in that episode with their head screwed on properly. Keeping felicity as just the comic relief would’ve been a disservice to the character and show.

      Unfortunately she’s now getting the skylar white treatment. She’s completely right (just as Oliver is right in his decision. Wrong with how he went about it tbough). But because she’s butting heads with the male lead she gets all the flack.

    • lynn82 says:

      Agreed!!

  19. Kate says:

    This show would improve if they refocused on Oliver and HIS story again, you know, because the show is called ARROW. I’m sick of hearing about Laurel being BC and Ray becoming the ATOM after a few episodes and Oliver is still going through his journey to Green Arrow after 8 years! They should get rid of Roy, Laurel and Ray and focus back on Original team Arrow again. They never should have killed Sara. And Malcolm is just a nuisance. The show has suffered this season because they are trying to make characters fit where they don’t belong. It’s boring and I’m sick of Oliver being treated like crap all the time. He deserves happiness.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      There are 23 episodes a season, and while I agree that Oliver should remain the main focus for the vast majority of them, episodes that center on other characters is good for a show. Ray isn’t the Atom, he hasn’t even finished the suit, and Laurel isn’t hardly an instant hero.

      “They should give rid of…. and …. and … and ….” Essentially get rid of anyone except the second Team Arrow. However, you have no show after that.

      “He deserves happiness” Happiness is boring on TV.

      • Kate says:

        Oliver should be the focus of all the episodes. Every other character should be secondary. The show is called Arrow and it’s about his story and journey to Green Arrow. This season has ruined that. They actually had to ‘kill’ off the main character just so Ray and Laurel could work. That’s really bad writing.

        And yeah, the show was more enjoyable when the focus was on Diggle, Felicity and Oliver. Roy is so dull and has no charisma. Laurel would have been awesome in the courtroom helping out the team but this BC stuff is tedious and is making other characters ooc just so she fits. She doesn’t. Sara was incredible and she already had the amazing backstory and training that is deserving of BC. Laurel just looks like a poor copycat.

        I agree happiness all the time is boring but Oliver will never be fully happy with what he does. He does deserve some happiness though. That’s what I meant.

        • Rob Watkins says:

          Oliver should be the focus of all the episodes.
          That’s just your preference. He can be A focus, but in a show that’s going to go well over 100 episodes, it’s great to see other characters have the spotlight once in a while. I love Buffy, but it was great when we got an episode centered on Spike or one of the Scoobies.

          ANd they didn’t kill off Oliver so Laurel and Ray could get the spotlight. Ray wasn’t in those episodes that much, and they weren’t centered around Laurel, they were centered around Oliver’s friends including Felicity, Roy, and Diggle. The last episode was centered around Malcolm. That you call that bad writing is purely your opinion. I don’t think Roy’s dull, he just needs better writing. More focus on his relationship with Oliver would be nice as I liked his scenes with Oliver this season.

          Black Canary isn’t a dark broody character. Sara had the training but not the temperament. Laurel’s still growing

          Oliver’s happiness is a journey. He’s still growing.

          • Luis says:

            As the main character, Oliver is the person the show revolves around. However, in order for the show to remain compelling, the supporting cast around Oliver must also grow, evolve and, sometimes, fall by the wayside. Roy’s promotion to sidekick, and subsequent maturation, Diggle’s reunion with Lyla and fatherhood, Felicity’s growth in her profession and as an indispensable part of Team Arrow. Even Laurel’s evolution, as clunkily as it’s been handled, is a necessary part of the evolution of the show. Compelling villains are also a necessity, and the show has given us one in Malcolm Merrlyn. It will be fascinating to watch the turns in Oliver’s relationship with Malcolm now that they are focused on a common enemy. The one character who’s been left out of this common evolution is Thea. Outside of Moira’s death and her relationship with Malcolm, Thea has remained essentially unchanged as a character. i have a strong suspicion that the writers are going to remedy that situation over the course of the last half of this season.

    • Claire says:

      This! For the most part, this! Thank you! I mean, I like Malcolm, but I think his SL is just not the best. It could be (for me) that I was really looking forward to seeing Thea’s SL and then she ended up being used as a prop/plot device. She is receiving some excellent training and I really hope the back part they bring it together for her.

      Add to that, Felicity getting more development on another show outside of Arrow because all of her time on Arrow is used to peel back the layers of others rather than her own. I like the SL with Ray but I wish he were being used more for her benefits— tell her story.

  20. I just miss Team Arrow :( Digg, Felicity and Oliver working together. All these side character are fun for a while, but those 3 are the heart of the show. I hope we are going to get back to that some day soon.

    • Jay says:

      ME TOO! They just worked so well together and were so in tune. Every scene was just firing perfectly. Now it’s just awkward and clunky.

    • missingalias says:

      Me too! I hate both laurel and ray and I think they take too much time from team arrow. I’ll so stop watching if they put Oliver and laurel and felicity and ray together. It would be so fake. Couldn’t keep watching.

      I miss the previous seasons laid back felicity. Nowadays the show is just so dark and far from what it used to be before. Felicity was the necessary light for me and I would love her and olivers banter back. Well I guess I must finally admit I’m an olicity shipper…what can you do! I love them.

    • Trish says:

      THIS! Dear Lord let’s please get back to the original team arrow dynamic that is Oliver/Diggle/Felicity. I don’t care about any of these other people they’ve got piled up in the lair and spend a ridiculous amount of episodes on in season 3. I’m still lost as to why I should care about Ray, Roy OR Laurel when there are far better characters with for more interesting stories that I’ve been waiting to see.

  21. Ella says:

    Really looking forward to Oliver training Laurel <3

    • Lila says:

      Not gonna happen.

    • speedy says:

      Really against Oliver training Laurel. Lady Shiva, please. It’s time to bring a woman in to train another woman.

      • Rob Watkins says:

        This, 1000 times this. I’m not adverse to Oliver having a hand, but Lady Shiva was in fact one of BC’s teachers (and Batman’s for that matter).

      • murley says:

        I want her to be trained by Katana. No real basis in comics, aside from the Bitds of Prey connection, but not totally out there. Plus I think it would be cool, fit with the story, and keep Katana around for a while (yay).

    • mm says:

      I really hope he doesn’t. If Laurel is gonna step out of Sara’s shoes (Sara is already the better BC) she needs to be trained by someone other than Oliver.

    • Briggs says:

      TVLINE | Is he going to take over Laurel’s training?
      No, he’s not there yet. He begins Episode 13 very much not approving, at all, of what Laurel’s doing, so it’s a long way to go from that to training her, which obviously implies a degree of validation.
      TVLINE | Besides, he’s on his own path now, as far as training to kill Ra’s.
      Exactly. He’s got bigger fish to fry.

      Might not happen until season 4.

    • Luis says:

      It might be too hard for Oliver to look past Sara’s death to approve of Laurel’s actions or to pick up her training. The idea of her being trained by a woman (Nyssa?) is intriguing.

  22. Jo says:

    All I want from the upcoming episodes is for Felicity to stop being Ray’s shadow. I hate that guy. I’m enjoying everything else, especially Maseo and Tatsu. They’re this seasons highlight. Love them!

  23. nikki says:

    Less Felicity (and Laurel) more Diggle and Quentin. I’m tired of hearing about Felicity.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      I’d like Felicity to go back to more of her season 1 and 2 self when she was funny and charming. I’m not liking the romantic melodrama. I agree about Diggle and Quentin, they are great characters played by the most seasoned actors on the show. Malcolm is welcome, and I definitely need more Ra’s.

      • azu says:

        Felicity, laurel and the olicity melodrama are really off putting. They are the reason I havent been watching arrow. Can’t they go back to the simpler times of Oliver, diggle and felicity kicking ass and just plain old saving the city without this rubbish shipping? I’ll stick to just reading the recaps until they improve

        • Rob Watkins says:

          I get your point, but there’s still more than enough great superhero action that the shipping stuff doesn’t overwhelm the show for me. I don’t want them just to go back to Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity. I like the addition of Roy and Laurel to the cave. Felicity serves a critical function with her tech wizardry, my issue is just what they do with Diggle. I don’t think he’s gotten enough good stuff to do this year. He hasn’t gotten nothing, but his absence is notable.

        • Susan says:

          I agree. Loved when it was just oliver, felicity and diggle.

  24. GirlvsTV says:

    Felicity was (and is) completely awesome. She is the only character, at this point, that has escaped this last batch of episodes largely unscathed by Plot Induced Stupidity. She and Digg were the only people making sense re: Merlyn in the last episode.
    ———————————
    I am so disappointed this show has turned its main character into a complete moron, simply to further the absolute ridiculous storyline that this Oliver/Merlyn/Thea/Ra’s stuff has resulted in. Why Oliver would agree to partner with Malcolm is beyond my ability to understand. Especially since between Merlyn and Ra’s, Merlyn would seem to be the bigger threat because everything IS HIS FAULT. Look, if the point of all of this is to ‘protect Thea’ then, correct me of I’m wrong, but is the League even aware of her involvement in Sara’s death? Cause the last I was aware MALCOLM was the one threatening to expose her to the League. If ‘protecting Thea’ is Oliver’s motivation, why is God’s name has he not told her to stay away from the man who brainwashed her and turned her into a killer without her knowledge or consent?! AND who was that man? MALCOLM. Unlike Thea, Oliver actually has knowledge of all of this, so why he would agree to work with Merlyn makes no sense. I seem to remember a version of this show where Oliver could actually rub two brain cells together and manage to outsmart his enemies. I miss that show.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      While I get what her and Diggle were saying, there’s a difference between principles and dogma. They didn’t have to get in bed with Malcolm, they just needed to let him go after Brick. I don’t know why those who have a problem with it can’t understand, unless Oliver learns from a great swordsman, Ra’s will kill him! It’s certainty of death vs. the chance that Malcolm will stab him in the back. He has really crappy options. Oliver isn’t forgiving Malcolm, he’s using him. It’s either this or death. Oliver has knowledge of what Malcolm did, but does he have proof?

      • GirlvsTV says:

        I may have missed something, but since when is Malcolm a great swordsman? He was the Dark ARCHER. Oh wait – the plot now requires he also be an expert swordsman so he is.

        And, I’m sorry, I am NEVER going to understand why the character of Oliver Queen as I have come to know him through watching this show for the past two and half seasons would work with a man who BRAINWASHED his sister and turned her into a killer without her consent or knowledge. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

        What happened to the Oliver that could, “Find another way”? I miss that Oliver.

        • Rob Watkins says:

          Yes, archery is his best skill but clearly he’s a great swordsman. Over this season, we’ve constantly seen him teach Thea how to fight with a sword. One of the first episodes Barrowman was in showed Malcolm fencing. He’s capable of using more than one weapon, and the League is adept with swords. There’s no agreeing to disagree, you are clearly dismissing blatant evidence.

          Find another way? I’m all ears.

          • GirlvsTV says:

            I am referring to the season 2 Oliver who, “found another way” and stuck to making the right decisions even when things were at their worst. I miss THAT Oliver. It took an entire season to get to that Oliver. I honestly don’t know who THIS Oliver is and I don’t think the writers do either. I have a feeling from this point on he’ll be whoever the plot needs him to be.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            He’s not making a deal with the devil. He’s not working for Malcolm or doing a Quid Pro Quo, he’s learning from him. It’s either this or die.

          • GirlvsTV says:

            There is absolutely a ‘right’ and a ‘wrong’ path here. Oliver has chosen the wrong path for no other reason than the plot needs him to be stupid and decide to work with Malcolm at this point in the story even though it seems very OOC, in my opinion, for him to do that. I’m almost certain Ra’s is a red herring and Malcolm actually is going to be the Big Bad and Thea will probably be the one to defeat him, at least I hope she will be. So, further down the line Malcolm will betray Oliver and reveal himself as a villain (again) but it needs to be SHOCKING so they need Oliver to work with Malcolm first. It is just a shame the writers had to dumb down Oliver to hit all these plot points.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Yes, and the right path is the one that doesn’t get you and those you love killed immediately. Either Ra’s certainly kills him or Malcolm might kill him. It’s not principle to say “I will not work with my enemy under any circumstance.” Oliver made it very clear that he knows what Malcolm did, but until he’s in a position to do something about it, and not die in the process, beggars can’t be choosers. Now can we please wait and see how this plays out before you claim how there was a clear right and wrong or that Oliver is stupid.

        • speedy says:

          I couldn’t agree more. Trying to redeem Malcolm Merlyn has brought out the stupidity in so many characters. Oh look, Thea now forgives him for killing her dad, the guy who raised her. How long did it take her to forgive her mom who was indirectly responsible for the death of all those people, only to ally with the man who was the mastermind of the whole plot? Roy is against him in one episode for the sake of protecting Thea, and immediately changes his mind when Thea says “oh, he’s good.” And now Oliver decides he has to train with the guy who killed his dad, everyone on the yacht, who was responsible for his best friend’s death plus 502 other people (and let’s not forget he meant to wipe out EVERYONE in the Glades), Sara’s death, and the final act that renders him completely irredeemable, who mind raped his sister and turned her into a killer. And Felicity gets penalized for remembering all the crap Merlyn has pulled (oh, and why isn’t Dig getting any hate? He sided with Felicity at the beginning of the ep which means he probably agrees with her, but no, only the woman who speaks up gets hate for spouting the truth?) Also, didn’t Oliver beat Merlyn in S1? So if you’re going to ask someone to train you, maybe ask someone whose ass you haven’t kicked, huh Oliver? So I don’t know what the other way might be, but I do know that there has to be another way. I never would have guessed Oliver would offer Felicity up as bait to give Slade the cure, but look, he did. Just because I can’t figure out what that other way is, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Oliver’s figured out how to beat the unbeatable before taken the road less traveled by. I see no reason why he can’t do so again when the stakes are much higher, the villain much more despicable, this time around.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            But unlike Thea, he hasn’t forgiving Malcolm.

            I agree that Thea’s insistence on trusting him stretches credibility but Oliver doesn’t trust him, he just doesn’t have many options.

            I didn’t penalize her, I said she is being dogmatic, not principled.

            Oliver defeated an archer in season 1. Ra’s is a sword fighter and a better hand to hand combatant. Oliver won last time because he was willing to kill Malcolm.

            Your reasons amount to, he can find another way because…. blank out.

          • GirlvsTV says:

            He can find another way . . . because that is what the entire last season was about. Oliver choosing to do the right thing even under what seemed to be hopeless conditions. He succeeded in the end and grew as a character. THAT Oliver is MIA right now because this stupid convoluted plot needs him to be a different Oliver in order for it to work.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            But he’s not doing anything immoral here.

          • Kay says:

            THIS. Here, here.

          • GirlvsTV says:

            In YOUR opinion he isn’t, but in MY opinion Oliver working with Malcolm in any capacity after what he has done to Oliver’s family (especially Thea) and the city is absolutely a betrayal of everything Oliver’s character has been progressing towards since season 1. So, once again, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

          • Luis says:

            Oliver feels backed into a corner. He knows of only two persons who have the necessary skills to battle (not even necessarily defeat) Ra’s Al Ghul. Maseo has no intention of going against Ra’s, so that leaves Malcolm. It appears as though this particular issue will come to a head sooner (ep. 15) rather than later, so it suggests an interesting change in the dynamic between Oliver, Malcolm and Thea.

          • Claire says:

            When Roy returned to the lair after speaking with Thea—just prior to the vote—and he started to explain how Malcolm saved Thea, I swear that dialogue and the MUSIC caused me to flash back to me my college days of watching soaps. That scene was so filled with suds I couldn’t see the actors. It was terrible. I’m sorry, but it was :facepalm:

    • speedy says:

      The latter part of my comment was in response to Rob, sorry! (Also, rub two brain cells together–hahahahaha. I’ll be laughing over that for awhile.

    • John NYC says:

      Why would he want to be trained by Malcom?

      How about that saying we got repeated quite a lot in that ep?

      “Only the student can defeat the master”.

      Perhaps Melvyn’s last words? “Oh, THAT student and master….”

      Then Oliver shows up at Nanga Parbat with his “master’s” head to pay off Ra’s.

      • GirlvsTV says:

        I fully agree that MM is probably the Big Bad and I didn’t miss all the master/student anvils in the last episode. My point is that the journey to get Oliver to that point is stupid, convoluted and requires Oliver (and Thea really) to behave in OOC ways.

        • fedupfeminist says:

          Thea maybe a bit OOC, but how is Oliver being OOC? He said he only knew 2 things: a) he loves Felicity and b) he will do ANYTHING for his sister…so making a deal with the devil to save his sister because that is what he is doing since at this point in time it is the only option he has isn’t out of character, it’s in character. Oliver has been far more in character than Felicity has this season. She’s the one who is OOC. Oliver isn’t back all of 3 mins before she is turning against him and basically validating every single bad opinion Oliver has of himself – that he is unworthy of being loved, that he is a monster, that he can’t love properly, that he doesn’t deserve love, that he isn’t a hero, that he isn’t a good person. Cause that’s what she did in that alley way. And this from the character that for the previous 2 seasons has been the one person who has always believed in him (disagreed and argued yes, but ALWAYS believed in him) no matter what even when everyone else around him gave up on him. Now THAT is OOC, not Oliver doing whatever it takes to save his sister including selling his soul, giving his life etc. The writers and the Olicity fandom are risking making Felicity highly disliked by the rest of the fans (and I am a huge Olicity fan) and totally Mary Sue-ing her. If I was more cynical I would be starting to think that is exactly what the writers are wanting – to have the non-Olicity part of the fandom turn off her and then they can turn the romance part of Oliver’s story back to Laurel without losing the majority of fans! Instead of not talking to him and just making up her mind and as said somewhere else on here being judge and jury without even hearing Oliver out what she should have done is talk to him and try to find out why he thinks this is the way to do it and then to work with Oliver to try to find another way or to at least keep an eye on the horizon for one i.e. work with him instead of her trying to dictate to Oliver how she thinks things should be. Oliver is the one here who is the expert on Ra’s (at least compared to Felicity and the rest of the team) and the LoA and as such his views and opinions carry more weight in this than her’s do, that’s how a TEAM works – the person with the expertise in a given circumstance is the one whose opinions are considered more. Does that mean the others don’t get a say or have useful and sometimes even better opinions? No, but you always have to start from the expert’s point of view and move from there. Felicity didn’t even give Oliver a chance to have a discussion on it. Did Oliver come in and go this is what is happening? Yes, but he has also proved over the past 2+ seasons that he has grown to be willing to discuss things, but she didn’t even try that. If she had given him a chance to explain things maybe she wouldn’t have been so dogmatic about it. And maybe if she had done that instead of basically telling Oliver that he is as bad as Malcolm they could have come up with at least the beginnings of a plan to find a way out of this terrible situation that Oliver has found himself in. Sorry for the diatribe, but this terrible saintifying of Felicity Smoak by part of the fandom and the writers is such an awful development for both the show and the character and if it continues it will end up being the death of both.

          • GirlvsTV says:

            Would you want to date someone who was willing to partner up with the man who BRAINWASHED your sister and was responsible for the brutal murder of your last girlfriend? Sorry, I don’t blame Felicty a bit for wanting to get the hell away from that or for being harsh about it. It doesn’t make her a saint, it just makes her smart.

            And I have explained my reasons for thinking Oliver OOC in great detail up thread, I’m not going to repeat myself.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            GirlsvsTV, it’s not that he wants to, it’s that he doesn’t have a lot of options, especially in the state he’s in. Ra’s didn’t just nearly kill him, he humiliated him.

  25. Alison Tabour says:

    I can’t help but think (and hope) that Oliver is ‘teaming’ up with Malcolm to ultimately bring Malcolm down.
    And I do think Felicity has gotten a bit grading, but I give her credit for not getting involved with a guy who seems void of character. As a viewer, I’m not too thrilled with Oliver right now either.
    I would have LOVED it if the writers made it so that Sara was the one who trained Laurel. But they killed Sara….sigh.
    Tough Laurel is much better than pathetic Laurel. But I have a hard time watching Katie Cassidy try to act. She really is beautiful, but she needs to redirect her hair style and wardrobe on that show. Neither do a thing for the woman!
    Ray and Roy are both just completely awful. Completely
    I think Arrow might have been more fun if the writers had created a relationship with Oliver and Ray. Ray could be making some super cool arrow toys. But instead he is just so creepy.

    • John NYC says:

      Exactly: “Only the student can defeat the master”.

      Repeated quite a lot in that ep. Maybe for a reason?

    • aaj says:

      Yes, that’s what I’m thinking – I think Oliver’s setting Malcolm up so that at some point Malcolm drops his guard and admits to what he did with Thea and Sara so that Ra’s overhears. Then get Ra’s to forgive Oliver and kill Malcolm . . .

  26. mm says:

    I’m tired of seeing people hating on Felicity. She’s done nothing wrong but stand by her principles. OH NO. A woman stands up to the almighty Oliver Queen, clearly she’s horrible! At least she has strength of character. I don’t like her always hanging out with Ray because he’s boring and is taking away from her chance to have her own plot but other than that, Felicity has been awesome this season. She’s the only one with any sense lately.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      That’s not a principle.

      • Kay says:

        Can you just leave people alone? You’re clearly just antagonizing and looking for a rise out of people now by leaving remarks on every single comment. Enough already. It’s pathetic. You don’t agree with what Felicity said. End of discussion. Leave people to make their comments in peace.

        • Rob Watkins says:

          He knows what Malcolm did, he’s not forgiving him. He’s using him to gain the skills he needs to protect his loved ones. I don’t know how the relationship will play out but thus far i don’t forsee Oliver doing Malcolm’s bidding as a precondition of the training. Letting Thea and himself get killed out of a misguided sense of self-righteousness helps no one.

          • John NYC says:

            Perhaps he’s setting Malcom up to be defeated by HIS “student”, Oliver himself. I expect the debts to Ra’s could be paid off by Malcom’s head?

          • Oliver fan. says:

            John, you might have a solid and logical point there. Malcolm the teacher. But, who else has been his student and has proved worthy of a challenge? Yes, that’s who I’m talking about. She finds out about Oliver being the Arrow, finds out about what Malcolm’s done. She has a huge reality check with an in your face What the heck have I done moments? Oliver’s my loving brother who died for me. I might be wrong, but, this would be Thea’s self discovery moment and her realization that she is capable of taking care of herself. And, you can’t tell me that Ra’s doesn’t know about all of Malcolm’s evil crazy manipulations. The who’s and the why’s. I don’t want to reveal any real plots that might really happen, but, this is my theory.

        • John. says:

          I agree Kay, Have noticed his constant hate for felicity and not allowing people to make their comments in peace. Get a life Bro.

    • Sarah says:

      Glad to see Olicity being put on the back-burner for a bit. It’s such a buzzkill and EBR just doesn’t have the dramatic acting chops to play such heavy scenes. Keep giving her scenes with Ray though please. They’re light and fun and remind of me of season one!Felicity, back when she wasn’t a total drag. Digging Laurel’s arc, but I am super sick of Oliver being a total butt to her. She doesn’t need your validation dude. Still hoping Nyssa is the one to train her.

  27. ninamags says:

    LOL, isn’t season 3 a bit early to talk about “love letters” to fans?? Shouldn’t you commit at least half a decade to the show first? 😛

    We had to wait 10 years for our “love letter”. Which I loved, by the way.

  28. lawrence says:

    Its credible how oliver organises his team

  29. Nicole says:

    I feel as though this season’s been kindof a mess. Olicity is just awful, I feel flabbergasted that the original, epic love story has been pushed aside and THIS melodramatic tripe is being shoved down our throats when it is very clear that Felicity has far superior chemistry with Barry and/or Ray. Moreover, Felicity, who I once really enjoyed watching, is a whiny, weepy, self-righteous pain in the neck. Laurel, who frankly, has always deserved better writing than what’s she’s gotten, is finally into the thick of the action, and for that I am glad, but her entire arc has been poorly executed. Frankly, the highlight this season has been Ray Palmer, which is why I hope like hell he doesn’t get his own show and leave.

    • Trish says:

      Epic loves are awesome, especially when the guy prefers your sister. Or random strangers. Or anyone, really. Oh wait, come to think of it, I can’t recall a love being referred to as epic when that’s occurred. Nevermind me, I’ll be over here in my Olicity bubble of Felicity Smoak awesome empowerment, demanding better from a man than his past “loves” have encouraged him to be. Now THAT, is epic.

  30. BeckyBoo says:

    My main issue with the show right now, is that it’s just not that fun to watch anymore.

    Ray is dull as dishwater, and has done nothing but play with his mechano toys for weeks now, while Felicity is dragged into all this scenes for god knows why, while they try to rustle up some none existent romantic tension.

    They ‘killed off’ their main character and then failed to properly explain how he survived – missed opportunity

    Then they made his return really anti-climatic. A hug? That’s it?

    Oliver and Felicity used to be the absolute highlight of the show for me – the light, humour and gentleness amongst all the darkness, but instead they’ve made their entire season about them being miserable, and making each other miserable at every turn, just so they can drag out their absolutely inevitable reunion at the end of the season, before they no doubt mess them up again before summer hiatus to cause more ‘tension’. The problem is, they’ve made each of their ‘big moments’ so underwhelming that I no longer trust them to do it well when it actually does happen – they need to remind people why we’re rooting for this couple, because they’ve done nothing but show us sad moments between them since October, and that’s going to continue for months to come.

    Laurel has actually been one of the bright spots – there’s a sentence I never thought I’d say, but at least watching the baby bird flap around and fall over is funny, and she’s actively trying to help.

    Oliver seems to have had a personality transplant. And I’m willing to bet that the ‘big twist’ is Oliver offering to join the LoA.

    I miss Moira, Oliver having a home and family life that didn’t revolve around his Arrow-ing, his other responsibilities, his other relationships. I miss him in suits and at business meetings, or parties, or at the club. Or just doing anything that isn’t Arrow related.

    There’s no big bad that I can discern – I don’t necessarily disagree with Ras offing Sara’s killer – he just needs to know that Malcolm is responsible. Oliver teaming up with Malcolm is just imbecilic. Thea doesn’t do anything except have the odd training session with Daddy-o, who she’s inexplicably forgiven for all the heinous things he’s done, not least terrorising her mother for the last 7 years of her life. And Lance can’t tell his daughters apart.

    It’s just a mess. It’s all very well to say ‘it’s a 23 episode movie, watch the whole before you judge’, but the fact is, it’s not. It’s a weekly TV show – and it needs to be entertaining each week to make it worthwhile tuning in, right now, watching feels like a chore, while you wait to see if and how they manage to claw it back in the last 4 or 5 episodes of the season to see if you can make sense of all the seemingly nonsensical choices they’ve been making this year.

    They’re teasing up to episode 18 – the season isn’t far from over, and so far it feels like barely anything has even started.

    • Caleb says:

      I also miss the home/family life. Moira and Thea created so much for Oliver’s character and now it just isn’t the same. I get that they wanted a big shock when Moira was killed but I worry that they acted too quickly with her death when there was more she could have done.

      Even Walter is MIA and I would like to see him still be involved in Oliver’s life.

      Right now it’s like Oliver and the Arrow are the same person, there is no secret identity.

      • murley says:

        I feel like Oliver’s inability to separate himself from the Arrow is the main driving plot point in his personal arc this year. It is supposed to be that way right now and his journey is about finding a way to be both and not lose Oliver Queen to the Arrow. I mean the theme has been stated as identity. So you are right but also that is the point.

    • GirlvsTV says:

      Completely agree with all of this. I used to be so excited for new episodes, but now I just feel a weird sense of dread that things are going to get even more messed up.

    • Oliver fan. says:

      As much as I love Arrow and these characters, it is a chore to find anything really enjoyable about the episodes this season. Just Debbie Downers, most of them. I’ve rewatched season 1 and 2 over and over. This season I think I’ll pass. I know they have truths, points, character developments to make, but, I hope these next episodes until the end of season 3 are much stronger and eventful. I greatly agree with your comments. We’ll have to wait and see where all this goes.

  31. Lauren says:

    If Tommy returns he should take either the Red Arrow or Arsenal identity, depending on which costumed identity Roy sticks. More like Young Justice; with Batman and his sidekicks: Nightwing, Bat Girl and Robin. Oliver can have Speedy, Red Arrow and Arsenal.

  32. Ramona says:

    could it be possible that towards the end of the season we find Oliver in a flashback with Ra’s planning to take out Merlin. Didnt Merlin tell Oliver that only the student could defeat the master~Oliver is now Merlins student not Ra’s. As for Oliver and Felicity~I know it looks like a sinked ship but it could also be a step closer. The thing about Arrow is that what they insinuate and what actually happens is vsometimes very different.

  33. Jane says:

    I really hope Olicity isn’t over for good. I’ve loved them since season 1 and love that their relationship has been built steadily over two years. They’re a little too angst-y for my tastes at the moment and I feel that’s doing them a disservice because they were always light and refreshing and such good friends, but I can weather a bit of a storm for a while. I just hope this thing with Ray doesn’t happen because it all feels so contrived and forced down our throats. I’m fine with Laurel being the Canary. I think it’s funny how bad she is but she needs training. I wish Diggle had more of a storyline than just being a husband and father. He’s awesome! Roy is ok and has grown on me but Colton Haynes is not a very good actor. I’d also love some more Quentin. I really liked him in season 2 and now he’s just in the background. Thea’s story is a mess but I hope she takes back some of her power soon. What Malcolm did to her was terrible and he needs to pay for what he’s done.

  34. Caleb says:

    The only thing to make this better at this point would be for Waller to abduct Felicity and make it look like she went home to her mother. Then, 20 episodes later, she can come back having been trained as a fighter as well as a better hacker (since Merlin got access to the camera in the Foundry without her knowing). Her voice box was damaged in an explosion and ARGUS paid for it to be repaired with state of the art sonic technology.

    Meanwhile, Laurel and Oliver are closer and she decides that she no longer needs to be the BC because she has avenged her sister and wants to spend time with her mother and father.

    That sets up Felicity to become the BC, confirms Olicity as a solid pairing down the line, and makes her more than a support character.

  35. Luis says:

    Overall, I am sad to say I am somewhat disappointed with Season 3 so far. It feels as though the writers are using shortcuts(Malcolm drugging Thea into killing Sara) and cop-outs (bringing Sin back to tell Lance the Canary isn’t Sara) to move the story along. The Oliver’s death arc felt like a grand crescendo to a wimpy conclusion. The Oliver-Malcolm alliance, building to an inevitable confrontation, first with Ra’s, and then between Oliver and Malcolm, feels a little stagy and melodramatic. The rift between Oliver and Felicity, while well-played by SA and EBR, feels mostly like a standard trope. Good characters like Diggle and Lance have been basically sidelined so that Ray Palmer can be given screen time and Roy can be promoted to full-fledged sidekick. I appreciate Laurel’s connection to the canon, and I always saw her ascension to the role of Black Canary as an inevitability, but I think the way its been handled has been so clunky and incredible (leaping through a window and grabbing a rope ladder from a helicopter?) that it’s been a big distraction for me. I continue to like Oliver’s growth (and SA’s growth as an actor) but I would like to see more out of characters like Diggle (which doesn’t mean you have to kill him or make him a Green Lantern!) It’s also time for the writers to step up and give Thea a direction. She has been adrift as a character since virtually the premiere of the show and it feels like most of her scenes grind the show to a halt. I think she could evolve into a fascinating antagonist for the Arrow; however its done, she has to become a more compelling character than she is.
    The show hasn’t lost me by any means, but I am expecting a lot better from it down the stretch.

  36. Jack says:

    Why has Felicity never told Oliver that she loves him? Several times I have heard Oliver say I love you to her but she has never said it back to him. And she sure is quick to turn to other men (The Flash and the Atom). I would like the show to either let the Oliver and Felicity thing gown full bloom or die off and they find other love interest. Hopefully for Oliver one the stays alive, is not in love with another woman, or crazy.

  37. GildedRose says:

    Last week’s ending was a heartbreaker for sure, but I’m not counting Oliver and Felicity out just yet. Love them together so it’ll be interesting to see what starts to push them back together, which is definitely what I want. I’m curious, too, to see the change in dynamics, especially between the team of Oliver/Felicity/Diggle. That should be very interesting to see.

  38. Jennie says:

    So tired of the same old BS blaming Oliver and putting Felicity on such a high pedestal that no man and certainly not someone like Oliver Queen will ever deserve her. It’s none of Felicity’s business what Oliver does or does not do and you know why because they are not related and they are not in a relationship.

    If I were Oliver I would have told her to take herself for a hike and get lost and not come back. Felicity has no idea and cannot even begin to comprehend what Oliver has gone through and he almost dies and she’s still bitching he won’t be with her and that he didn’t contact her. Seriously the conversation was mostly about her,her,her and it has nothing to do with her.

    Why does he owe her something they are not together. I can say for a fact that any female who tells a guy she loves him and he says nothing back and then she sees him kissing some girl would be pissed off. I’m so sick of listening to the double standards from this supposed “Olicity” shipping group that does nothing but put down and belittle half of their ship.

    If Oliver is so bad and Felicity is so perfect why do you want them together. Oliver told her repeatedly that he would do anything for Thea and if that means teaming up with the enemy then so be it. Before you all come back with well why not let Maseo train him then rewatch the episode cause Maseo said no. The writers made Oliver’s choice the only choice and Felicity who has nothing to lose needs to suck it up and deal with it. Instead of going off on him and still hasn’t even confirmed any feelings for him. Why couldn’t she have said Oliver I have concerns can we talk but oh no she stomps her feet like a child once again and walks off.

    • fedupfeminist says:

      Yay!! At least there are some other sensible women out there cause the show and those bloody shippers are giving the rest of us a REALLY bad reputation!! And you hit the nail on the head with everything here – you can bet your ass if Oliver treated Felicity the way she has been treating him this season they would be up in arms and you’d never hear the end of it, but it’s ok for her to do that?! Jeesh. I just wish the show runners would stop listening to the shippers and trying to give them their stupid bloody angst and just do what is right by the characters. I loved Felicity, but this season I can actually barley stand her. She was different from your stereo typical tv representation of women out in S1 and 2, but not this season – she is behaving more like Laurel in season 1 than Felicity of s1 and 2!!

    • Jill says:

      The point was that, as Diggle said earlier in the episode, the ends don’t justify the means and once you start working with Malcolm Merlyn, it’s the first step to becoming him.

      Oliver will do anything for Thea but this is a stupid thing to do. (Plus Tatsu was wrong, he beat Slade and Merlyn in s1 by out-thinking them.) Prediction: Oliver will regret not listening to Diggle and Felcity.

      Felicity stayed with the crusade because she believed in Oliver’s ideals. When he said he was going to team up with MM, it was a huge disillusionment for her. It wasn’t about him not hooking up with her, she was upset because she realized he wasn’t the person she thought he was. And even then she walked away so as not to fight. It’s on him that he followed her.

  39. Syd says:

    There is no way this the end of Felicity and Olivers relationship. Writers and producers know that would kill the show. Half of the viewership is DC fans, the other half is the CW demographic. If Arrow wants to have longevity like other CW shows such as the vampire diaries its gonna have to rely on fandoms such as Olicity; simply because it’s entertaining for a large part of the demographic. Delena was never suppose to happen but its what keeps viewers around. In no way should arrow have to sacrifice its quality or creativity to satisfy fandoms. Arrows arguably best episodes last season were episodes that included good olicity moments. However, this current dynamic is tiresome. For anyone who watched the newsroom, it reminds me of the maggie-jim debacle, great will-they won’t they couple season 1, season 2 was awful to them, they don’t get together till the end of the series and by that time no one cared (at least that show had 2 other solid relationships. We rarely get lyla and diggle). What I hope (and think) the writers are doing is resetting the relationship, allowing Felicity to fall back in love with Oliver, similar to how she fell in love with Oliver season 1-2. It was light and sweet and allowed the viewer to take a step back from all the great but intense stuff. There were literally 10 sec of olicity in each episode and that was enough. It would make such a big difference if they continued slowly building the relationship, I think its silly how they are overthinking it. Without all of this trivial relationship drama, the show could go back to worrying about more important things.

  40. B says:

    I love this show! I even like Katie Cassidy as The Canary! I know I disliked Dan with Blair on Gossip Girl but it never made me hate the actor! I think she did a great job last night when fighting Vertigo/Sara! She made me feel for her!!

  41. thedemko says:

    I still have no idea how no one has asked Guggenheim why Barry’s been kept so far out of the ‘Oliver died’ loop. If it were me on Team Arrow, Barry would have been one of the first phone calls I make, to help the team keep control in Starling. But since the crossover episodes, there has been basically no contact between the shows at all. I don’t understand it.

  42. disonba3 says:

    I AM so thankful to the writers who broke up Olicity”!! thank you! thank you! thank you!! Now get on that ball and get Laurel and Oliver back together where they both belong!!

  43. Laurel Killmartin says:

    Are Felicity and Oliver getting back together at some point in the series. that situation was barely started or not started.

  44. Gospel Chimezie says:

    wow if u wil really ask me i wil say that this seasons 3 is the bomb love it me and my guys can’t stop talking about it so keep it up.

  45. Gospel Chimezie says:

    why do all the men come back from death not the women