Arrow Recap: You Win Some, You Lose... What You Hold Most Precious

Arrow Oliver Returns

Though it made the eventual moment no easier to watch, you had to see it coming.

Midway through this Wednesday’s episode of The CW’s Arrow, Tatsu warned a departing Oliver, “To defeat a man like this Ra’s al Ghul, you must be willing not just to die but to live knowing what you have to sacrifice in order to beat him… whatever you hold most precious.” And we all know what/who that is.

But before we got to that loss, there was a big win to be had — with a little help from Team Arrow’s friends. With the Glades under Brick’s unchallenged rule, and after declining Malcolm’s offer to join forces (though Roy and Laurel were inclined to vote yea), Team Arrow rallied Ted Grant, Sin and scores of other townfolk to join in the fight, and fight they did.

During the melee, Ted aka Wildcat got in some licks against Brick, only to then get pummeled within an inch of his life by the brute. Malcolm, in Arrow Oliver ReturnsDark Archer regalia, then showed up to do his own whaling on Brick, whom he had learned was responsible for killing his wife/Tommy’s mother some 20 years ago — a tragedy which prompted the Merlyn patriarch to briefly abandon his son and have his “anger forged” by the League of Assassins.

But before Malcolm could go for the kill, using the same gun Brick used all those years ago against a “weak,” begging Rebecca, Oliver resurfaced. Don’t do it, he argued, if only for the sake of Thea, who would never forgive him.

Later, with Brick in SCPD custody, the Arrow addressed the townsfolk, saying, “You did not fail this city, and I promise I will not fail you by leaving it again!” Cheers.

Alas, the reception Oliver got back in the Arrowcave was decidedly chillier, once Felicity realized that he was aligning with Malcolm, in the name ofArrow Felicity Break-Up learning how to defeat Ra’s al Ghul. Outside in private, Felicity explained how she thought that if and when he came back from the dead, that he would do things differently — when it comes to them, Oliver deduced. Before leaving, “You said you loved me,” she reminded. And then his first words back are about allying with the “monster” who turned the sister Oliver loves into a killer, and then killed a woman he loves. Given that track record and Oliver’s insistence on studying under Malcolm, “I don’t want to be a woman that you love,” Felicity said, before walking away.


Elsewhere in the hour….
* Oliver invited Tatsu to come to Starling City with him, but she declined.
* Quentin knows Roy is Arsenal/The Red Hood/whatever. Points for that!
* Sin alerted Quentin that the current Canary is not his daughter Sara.
* Oliver explained his absence to Thea by saying he got into some trouble in Bludhaven, winding up behind bars.

What did you think of “Uprising”?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Drew says:

    Damnit, Laurel. You broke the first rule of Tights Club! Never unmask a superhero in the middle of a battle!
    Good episode though. I was hoping that they would make more out of Oliver’s death and have a better explanation for how he came back (I would accept magical herbs at this point). It just seems odd to have a huge death for him, only to shrug it off.
    I do like that he will have to go darker. Hopefully, he will get back to his roots. The no kill policy is absurd.
    I liked what they did with Laurel, Ted and Roy this week. I hoped that Diggle would take over as leader with Oliver gone since he has seniority and training. It is weird to see Roy take more of a leadership role than Diggle.

    • derek117 says:

      Apparently Leadership is determined by your costume, and Cool Name.

    • Dill says:

      I wish Oliver stayed out of Starling until the end of the next episode. I think they are turning what Tatsu said to Oliver, “No Maseo saved you”, into a plot development. Maybe he used some Lazarus (which really is a magical herb) to bring him back and had Tatsu nurse Oliver’s wounds that didn’t fully heal. Then that would bring it back to how Merlyn survived the season 1 finale

    • Jill says:

      Diggle did take over a leadership role. He sided with Felicity against Malcolm Merlyn and their two votes beat Roy and Laure’s two votes.

  2. Anne says:

    I thought this was a great end to the trilogy. Can’t wait to see how Quentin reacts to the truth about Sara- it’s going to be heartbreaking. Also, kudos to Felicity for standing her moral ground. I love how this trilogy has helped define her more strongly: morally sound but willing to do anything she can to take care of her friends. As much as I want Oliver and Felicity together- and I don’t relish the idea of a cliche, drawn out melodrama- it’s nice that they have some genuine issues to work out.

    • CA says:

      On the one hand, I thought that Felicity’s speech Oliver was harsh. But on the other, it was a very logical argument that only Felicity would have been able to put forward. Well I agree I don’t want the melodrama I do think that having the relationship be hard is the right thing to do.

      • Alichat says:

        I thought it was a little harsh as well……true, in what happens to people he loves….but harsh. I hope we will see a moment where he points out to her that she begged him to kill Ra’s. And he died trying to do as she asked (yes it was his plan to try to kill Ra’s from the beginning, but you see my point.) I just hope she gives him a chance to explain where he’s coming from…..his logic. She may not agree with it, but they should at least talk about it. They were always able to talk to each other.

        • Sara K says:

          yes she allowed him to kill Ra’s because she didn’t think he would die in the process come back to life and then try to kill the man again by aligning with another mass murderer. She can’t see no way in which this ends well for either of them

          • Halim Johnson says:

            Technically if Oliver doesn’t try or kill Ra’sa then the whole city will be in danger, because he threatened to kill citizens before their fight. Therefore I can understand where felicity is coming from but a man have to do what he has to do. Not to mention i was never a big fan of those two getting together.

      • Lauren says:

        I think Digg is gonna play a main part in their reconciliation. He’s been good at helping them sort out their feelings. He makes conversations that would need to be really long between them less necessary. I have high hopes for our onscreen olicity shipper.

      • Rhea says:

        On a lighter note, I believe this is what happens when a girl is given a choice between Stephen Amell and Brandon Routh. And it was harsh but absolutely in agreement with how the writers have so far shaped up Felicity’s character. She goes straight to the point and that is what she did and she also is the moral compass for Oliver. It was necessary to keep her character integrity intact.

        • Lex says:

          I agree. When Felicity draws a line, it takes extreme circumstances (like the certainty that Oliver will die if he goes soft on Ra’s) for her to cross it. That’s what she was doing in this episode, and Diggle backed it – the original team is trying to get back to steering Oliver and his mission in the right direction like they were doing in the back half of season 1.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Oliver isn’t some car. He’s capable of keeping himself on mission, but the person that helped and kept him from crossing the line in season 1 was DIggle. Felicity kept him in the game in season 2 after Tommy’s death and her “you honor the dead by fighting”.

          • Lex says:

            I would like to think it was a joint venture helping Oliver during both seasons. And they were there to not only aid Oliver, but to give advice and take a stand when necessary. They are his support on the mission, and that’s what they give him – support. I’m not saying this is some kind of one-way relationship where Diggle and Felicity give and Oliver takes, but insofar as this is his hero’s journey, they are the two people who should be flanking him.

      • Anne says:

        I really don’t think felicity was harsh, everyone else has just lost their minds. Diggle and felicity were the only ones making sense. Merlyn killed sara and tommy and Oliver’s father and 500 other people in the earthquake. So teaming up with him to defeat the league is a big wtf for me. For Thea’s sake? Okay, but that just make felicity’s point more clear to me, ‘if this is how you treat people you love I want no part of it.’ I am all for oliver rebooting to season 1 Oliver for a little while and they need to explain how he came back to life better. I thought the giant fight scene was cheesy. I don’t know how a mob could charge another mob with automatic weapons and no one gets shot.

    • Liz says:

      Yeah, Felicity was harsh but she was upset. I actually understood both sides which is refreshing. I like where this is going. It has a lot of potential.

    • kelly says:

      It seems to me that aligning with Malcolm so he can kill someone as they debated earlier in the episode is a little different than Oliver asking Malcolm to train him so he can defend himself and his sister from a man who will come to kill them. I had a hard time with Felicity seeing those actions as equal. I could see feeling that the first crossed a line, but the second? Not so sure.

      • Steph says:

        Nicely put. I had the same reaction Felicity did when Roy suggested working with Malcom. What?! Are you nuts? He’s a murderer!…and you want to work WITH him? NO WAY.
        But…Oliver needs training to beat Ra’s and only to PROTECT his sister, his city, his friends (yes, that’s YOU Felicity). So….whole different ballgame.
        The thing that gets me is, Felicity supposedly loves Oliver, yet she’s turning her back on him? No sacrifice for the man you love? No meeting him halfway?
        What’s wrong with her?

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m still on the Olicity bandwagon, but geez….she’s acting very childish.
        Don’t tell Oliver you don’t want him to love you… Voice you don’t like it, then shut up and support your man!

        • Valie says:

          To express your disagreement to the man you love when he thinks it’s a good idea to join forces with the manipulative mass murderer who killed his father & his ex-girlfriend seems like an eminently mature & reasonable reaction to me…
          I understand that Oliver has to do something, fast, but maybe he should take the time to rest before making a snap decision!

          • John NYC says:

            ” express your disagreement”; yes, then walk away? Not so much.

          • Samara says:

            @JohnNYC I agree why did she not hear him out. Her walking away was a way of saying I don’t care to know what your reason are, which is very immature.

        • Ang says:

          The problem here is that he ISN’T her man and never has been! He has admitted he loves her while never once indicating that he has any intention of being with her. How can she possibly meet him halfway when he’s not even taking a step in her direction? Why should she sacrifice her sense of self and morality for a guy who has just demonstrated how low on his list of priorities the women he loves actually fall? Sure, he has some decent reasoning behind him right now, and some difficult communication would help, IF THEY WERE IN AN ACTUAL RELATIONSHIP. Which they are not. if they were married, dating, whatever, then sure, walking away was a crappy move. As it stands, that was the only move that makes sense for a self-respecting person.

          • Lex says:

            Oliver has been the one making all the previous decisions – it’s dangerous so we can’t be together, I love you but I’m going off to fight to the death and probably won’t come back. Felicity could have passively accepted Oliver’s actions, or she could have made a decision to step away. It was a choice between returning to something where she’s always a lower priority, always the one waiting, always the one giving, or she could decide she’s worth more than whatever crumbs are left after all of Oliver’s other loyalties are satisfied. And though my heart breaks for Oliver, he does need to realize his “girl Friday” actually is her own person, and that in order for their relationship to work he needs to actually see Felicity as a partner, an equal – and not just giving lip service to the idea. I hope this is a lesson he’ll learn by the end of the season, but I don’t trust the writers to go the “healthy relationship” route – at least this early in the game.

        • MYA says:

          What you guys don’t seem to understand is that OLIVER is the one letting her down .. in the hole scene , he made the choice to let her go ! ‘ the sacrifice ‘ that Tatsu was talking about .. IF you rewatch the hug scene it’s like he is pushing her and she stood numb for a moment .. He is the one letting her go first and not fighting for her

  3. Israel Joseph says:

    The Ending was heartbreaking but brilliant. I can’t wait for the next episode!

  4. joe says:

    Bye bye Olicity. It was foolish of Olicity shippers to think that the writers were going to ever allow that relationship to flourish. Otherwise a decent episode.

    • Sara K says:

      HAHAHA you think this is the ending to Olicity, dude it’s just the beginning. Oliver is gonna do whatever he can to make her happy.

      • Halim Johnson says:

        Not…..Felicity is going to get with Palmer and Oliver will eventually be happy for her

      • Halim Johnson says:

        Can anyone see what’s going on here! There’s only a select few of people who truly handed Arrow his butt on a platter and Malcolm was one of them. Although the Arrow came out a killing machine after those five years he still has more to learn about fighting, and now he will receive training from one the dudes who beat him in the past. Not to mention he will learn the training and mindset of the League of assassins

        • Valie says:

          Can anyone see what’s going on here! Malcolm has gotten exactly what he wanted: the Arrow in his pocket to fight his own battles.
          If Malcolm was so good why do he need Oliver so much? What Oliver can gain from training with a coward?
          Let me tell you my friend, there must be another way ! ;-)

      • Tasha says:

        I am an olicity fan, but I am realistic enough to see that in the end they are most likely not going to end up together. As for right now though, I am enjoying the growth in the characters. Felicity’s whole issue with Oliver is that he will fight for the city as the arrow but he wont fight for the man, Oliver Queen, to have a life outside of his superhero work. He doesn’t even have a job. He gave up on his families company, etc.

        I am also certain that last night was not the end of the relationship drama between those two. Personally, I think there is a reason we have yet to hear Felicity say “I love you” to Ollie, they are saving that little gem for later.

    • Drew says:

      I would love to see this be the end of them, since the sappy drama has been carrying on all year and it is old. But I doubt it is over.
      That said, I don’t see them together in the long run. They are coming at life from completely different angles. He can try to be like her, but he is not. The fact that she thought she knew what he would say and was so totally wrong was just proof of that.
      But they will drag it out for a while.

    • aunni says:

      well, castle did kinda same thing to backet during s4 bt in the season finale they were f**king each other ;)

      • A says:

        It’s classic TV tropes, keep the couple apart and then put them together during May sweeps. I’m surprised so many people don’t seem to get it.

        • edd says:

          the fact that its been done a million times is why i hate this relationship…… it brings nothing new and makes me annoyed by all the angsty moments. i love felicity and oliver as friends, not as a couple.

        • Lizzie says:

          Seriously, only thing is that writer are doing good here. So not predictable. Everyone can bitch and moan about the Olicity drama but that relationship is driving the plot and Oliver’s development. Also the character have no changed for “love” at all. Felicity is still the moral compass and she isn’t letting her feelings change that. This is also drives the Atom story with Felicity being pissed at Oliver this just makes her work with Ray more. And I’m thinking she’s trying to fix the wrongs with Oliver in that. This also changes the dynamic in the arrow cave. She isn’t going to be involved in the whole defeat Ra’s with Merlin. I also thinks this set’s up the Thea and Felicity relationship because she is going to need something major to make her trust Merlin and Thea might just be the answer.

          • Josh says:

            Oh good point lizzie about setting up Thea/Felicity relationship!! I want a friend ship between these two, the two most important people in Oliver’s life his sister and woman he loves. I hate All the angst but it’s obvious Oliver and Felicity love each other deeply

          • Lex says:

            You’re 100% right – structurally, this set up the rest of the season rather well. We can see all the conflicts that will need to be resolved by the end of the season (or in the case of Olicity, at least mitigated because I think that relationship has a great deal to do with Oliver’s hero’s journey and there’s still much to overcome there). So yes, Olicity are still in love with each other, but we’re going to get some angsting and pining, especially on Oliver’s part. As for Felicity, the relationship with Ray is actually kind of refreshing because now it’s Felicity who will openly be with someone else in front of Oliver–payback’s a bitch, isn’t it? This isn’t necessarily something Felicity is driving – it’s mostly subtextual – but if Oliver is allowed to boink every female character he’s not related to (except for Tatsu – yet – and that genuinely surprised me), he’s gotta feel the other side to genuinely understand the consequences of his actions.

            Again, this is all stuff that needs to be resolved by the end of the season (or possibly series). Olicity is on hold. It isn’t over.

        • donholley77 says:

          My thinking exactly! ‘Olicity’ isn’t done!

          • Tasha says:

            Laurel & Oliver should never happen again. In the series he did not just hook up with her sister once, that could have been forgiven after all he suffered on the island but after hooking up with her a second time, there is no way that anyone can then say that those two make sense as a couple. I think with the way the show is going in order to keep things close to the comic but not perfect they will get married as a way to avoid them being able to testify against each other. And then get divorced.

            Of all the women he has been with Felicity makes the most sense. She is not an ex, the sister of an ex, the cop hunting him or a crazy killer looking for revenge for my dead fiancé.

    • Liz says:

      LOL. Have you ever watched TV before? This is just the beginning.

    • eilowynfic says:

      Oh, my sweet summer child… this is only season 3. I expect to wait until the last five minutes of the series finale until I get my happily ever after.

    • wentspeedup says:

      hahah im sorry that i laugh but do you even know how tv shows work? Its just now starting between these two!

    • wentspeedup says:

      hahaha im sorry that i laugh but do you even know how tv shows work? Like seriously , its just getting started with these two. By the end of the season they will be together, mark my words.

  5. Ashley says:

    I personally love angst within my ships because it tends to bring out the best in the actors, so I’m excited to see where this will go for Oliver and Felicity. It’ll, hopefully, pay off in the long run (and, by that, I mean end of season, not season eight). Also, to see the impact it will make on the team. Hopefully Ted’s okay, and we’ll see him again soon. As well as more of Sin, now that she’s aware/speculating that that wasn’t Sara in the Canary costume. Next week looks great. Can’t wait.

    • CM says:

      Nothing will ever happen between Felicity and Oliver until after Felicity sleeps with Ray Palmer.

      It how Hollywood makes relationships real and epic.


      • Maryann says:

        I do NOT want to see Felicity in bed with Palmer. The idea makes me sick to my stomache. She still loves Oliver, and would realize that if she let him tell her the full story and what will happen if he takes any other course of action than the one he has planned.

      • aunni says:

        ray has an arc that is becoming atom, not sleeping with felicity.

  6. Sarah T says:

    Slightly disappointed in the actual “uprising” since it seemed a bit short lived. For all the initial resistance he put up he seemed relatively easy for Malcolm to get to (and beat the crap out of) though maybe that points to Malcolm’s talent.
    Wow, that scene between Oliver & Felicity was epic. I think I was more impressed with Oliver’s reaction than I was with her speech (though kudos to EBR for her delivery). He played the emotion so well in that scene. I’m with Felicity, I thought Oliver would have a different perspective too. As it is now, it seems that this will be an endless cycle of him putting everything before a potential “them” so I get where she’s coming from. Especially since we know that the rest of the team can pull their own weight now. Can’t wait to see how this plays out over the rest of the season!

    • BBussey says:

      The irony is that Oliver *does* have a different perspective. He now believes he has to work with Merlin in order to defeat Ra’s. He never would have decided that without being skewered and left for dead. This, of course, happens to be a “different perspective” that Felicity doesn’t agree with. And, given that they don’t have a common point of reference on the matter since Felicity has not had a near-death experience which took a month to recover from, they won’t see eye-to-eye on this for a while, if ever.

      • Josh says:

        Cause Felicity doesn’t know yet exactly what Oliver is truly doing fighting for a life with her along with keeping his sister safe. If those freaking writers would have Oliver tell her this she’d understand more. She loves him and doesn’t understand why he would team with a guy who lead him to his death.

        • Sil says:

          Se rests are what destroyed Oliver’s family. And he keeps doing that, even to Felicity. Get it all out in the open. Felicity might just understand. But, this is TV trooping. Give as much angst to Oliver and Felicity as possible until the end finale of the season. The only thing that this separation with angst does is fuel the arc or purpose of Merlyn, Ray using Thea and Felicity as their conductors. For me this is a long drawn out bunch of BS. But, it is character growth for all of them. Giving Laurel much needed character growth. I wish the writers would give Diggle more purpose, authority and wisdom to these story lines. To me his wonderful character is lost to the bossy Laurel when he has the fighting knowledge and skill. Not really into this episode much.

          • Sil says:

            Sry computer messed up. Secrets are what destroyed the Queens.

          • Lex says:

            All really good points. Oliver has yet to get it in his head that secrets are not a good thing when it comes to the people he loves. This is a major step in his arc – something he’s going to have to learn the hard way. We’re either going spend the rest of the season disproving Tatsu’s words of wisdom, and Oliver’s love for Felicity will have a strong part in defeating Ra’s, or Tatsu is right and Ra’s has to be dealt with before Oliver can be with Felicity. I’m hoping for the former, because thematically one of those sweeping “love conquers all” resolutions and would be harder for Oliver on a personal level – leading to more growth.

        • Tasha says:

          I think that is a big part of the problem. oliver is always fighting for people and that is who the character is but he also makes all there decisions for them. Saying diggle couldn’t fight anymore, saying they couldn’t be a couple, saying he is working with Merlin. When you are involved with other people you cant just unilaterally decide for others. He needs to be better at communicating and respecting that sometimes his partners know better than him. Because let be real, most of the time they do know better than him.

          diggle knew moira was up to something when oliver didn’t
          felicity knew they could stop slade without killing
          and even in last nights episode them turning down Merlin as a partner turned out to be a good move because they found other allies and won.

          He needs to have more faith in them.

      • Sarah T. says:

        You’re right, she doesn’t agree with it because it’s hard for her to wrap her head around Oliver wanting to be trained by the very man that put him in this predicament by having Thea kill Sara. I saw it from both sides. She did comes across as harsh, but I saw it as her being extremely hurt. At the end of last season, Oliver told her “I love you.” as a way to get to Slade. Then she started to allow herself to believe that maybe there was something to that. Oliver asked her out on a date, and her hopes escalated even more. Especially as the date started off extremely well and Oliver was opening up to her. Then they were attacked and Oliver shut down that side of him completely. Only to her that he did love her but he can’t be both “Oliver” and “Arrow” (to the one person who probably saw him as one and the same). She backs off, not wanting to get hurt. Then Oliver leaves to fight Raj and once again tells Felicity that he loves her. She tells him to take Raj down and come back. When she hears that he’s been killed, she grieves but allows herself to dream that maybe if he did make it out alive, he’ll be different when he comes back and want to be with her. Again, those are her expectations (which are clearly different from Oliver’s) but I definitely got her point. She felt like though she knew he loved her, he was never going to be in a relationship with her. He’s set on being the Arrow and she doesn’t want that kind of heartache. On the same hand, I get that Oliver feels like this is something he has to do in order to protect Thea and the city. He doesn’t know of another way and sees this as the only way at this point.

        • Sil says:

          I believe everything you’ve said. The only thing is if Oliver explained everything what happened to him and the reasons knowing Ra’s was coming to get him, Thea and Merlyn she might might understand his predicament. But, I’m all for her standing her ground with him.

          • Sarah T. says:

            Yeah but if he explained everything there would be no drama which is what the writers want for the rest of the season. ;) Leading up to Felicity having to choose between Ray and Oliver by the end…

        • Sharon says:

          I believe a lot of characters need to grow up!

          First the beginning of the show- Oliver may have spent 5-6 years in Hell but he has been home for three. Keep the clock running please and have some of the characters stop acting like teenagers!

          Oliver survived getting to help due to the extreme cold. And even if the sword did not touch any organs, he still had life threatening infection to fight off. No one asked what happened and how he was. Felicity and Diggle never left the Flash Cave so how did Oliver get his suit?

          The only logical person to train Oliver is the one he went to- he did not say he was going to align himself with Merlin and had in fact changed Merlin’s course.

          Felicity as a computer wiz should have spotted the spying that Malcolm was doing.

          • Tasha says:

            Thank You! I love the show but this episode worked my last nerve. The inconsistencies and the bad editing were so blatant.

            1.Love Merlin but there was waaaaay too much backstory on an episode were the hero returns from being gone for a month.
            I really cant make myself care about Malcolm’s epic love when they have never shown him with his wife happy for us to really see the emotion between them.
            2.Olivers return was so blah and anti-climactic. (he needs time to train for when Ra’s comes yet his first act is to stand on a truck and announce he is back)
            he could barely walk without getting winded at the beginning yet he was swinging from his jettisoning arrow like Tarzan by the end.
            how did he get his arrow suit? he didn’t bring it with him to fight Ra’s. Did he sneak in and snatch it off the mannequin when no one was looking.
            In what world do Dig and Arsenal leave Laurel & Oliver (who they thought was dead) at a fight to go back to the arrow cave and watch the recap on the news? Even there reactions when he walked in to the cave were blah, esp. considering how lost and miserable they were when they thought he was dead.
            3. Detective Lance knows that Roy is Arsenal yet has no idea that the woman in black running around is not Sara, Really, Really! Also by now if he doesn’t know Oliver Queen is Arrow, I just think they should take his badge.
            Last season Oliver was never around when something bad happened, Yet his “girlfriend” Sara was, his assistant Felicity was, his sisters ex-boyfriend Roy was and his body guard was. Hint, Hint.
            4. For the life of me I don’t get why Diggle the more experienced fighter spends more time in the arrow cave (yes, I know he is a father/fiancé) yet, when he does go out he never wears a mask.
            Honestly the best way to track arrow at this point is to just follow the handsome 6’3 guy in the black jacket.
            5. Lastly Felicity, I understand both points of view but for me the writers made a mess. Just a few weeks ago She was telling him to compromise his morals and kill Ra’s yet now she is mad because he is going to train with a murderer to defeat him. While what she said about Thea & Sara was true the reasoning behind it made no sense to me.
            Her getting angry about him working with Malcolm after as a team they just decided not to I understand but her saying she doesn’t want his love because of it just seemed like a lazy way for the writers to temporarily sink the Olicity ship & drag out the angst. And I say temporarily because she has yet to say “I love you” to him and when she does that is going to be another big moment, they may save that for Layla and Diggle’s wedding.
            Honestly, I expected her to say something like “I don’t want to be the woman you love, I want to be the woman your with”.
            It will be interesting to see if they can work out some of these things in the upcoming episodes.

        • murley says:

          I hope the fact that Oliver’s first “I love you” to Felicity, although genuine it turned out, was part of a ruse against slade is brought up. It further cements the idea that Oliver doesn’t prioritize those he loves. He seems to think that the ends justify the means too which is an interesting parallel to merlyn and would be an interesting dynamic to explore. If both operate that way, where do you draw the line between good guy and bad guy. Especially if both feel they are trying to “save this city”

        • Lex says:

          This is a really good summary of both sides. It’s a conflict – it’s not supposed to be rainbows and puppies. I usually rag on Oliver as being the one who needs to do some growing up, but I’ve been seeing more and more that Felicity’s on her own journey as well, and part of that is standing up for herself and asking Oliver to make their relationship a priority. She needs time away from Oliver to come into her own, and this is a big, necessary step towards that, as well as towards a relationship with Oliver where they’re equal partners on even footing.

          In Joseph Campbell’s “hero’s journey” at the end the initiate has become a hero, and is a “master of two worlds,” as Campbell puts it. Oliver needs to learn to be the master of two worlds – find a balance between himself and the Arrow so he can be both – and this part of it. I may be sad we’re not going to get any adorable schmoop for a while, but structurally this is a good thing for them both and as a couple. The course of true love never did run smooth, and all that.

  7. CA says:

    Seriously, how is it that Capt. Lance can figure out that Roy is Arsenal but so few people can figure Oliver is the arrow? I mean even Laurel couldn’t figure it out and she slept with the guy!

    • herman1959 says:

      Yes, but remember Capt. Lance had to be told the current Canary is not Sara. So, he’s only batting .500.

      • Blah says:

        Cpt lance arrested Oliver as the arrow in season 1. He knows it’s him. He just didn’t have enough evidence to convict him then, and now. I think he prefers the plausible deniability

        • matthew says:

          ^rt exactly what I was thinking! He knows its Oliver there was even an episode earlier where someone told Lance they know who the Arrow is and he said he didn’t want to know I think it was toward the later part of Season 2 if im not mistaken. I am under the full belief that Lance knows who the Arrow is but he just doesn’t want to admit it out loud

  8. ninamags says:

    Ugh, really hated Felicity in this episode. She doesn’t know all of Oliver’s business so she needs to shut up and sit down.

    • aunni says:

      how abt u shut up n lay down?

    • Sil says:

      Oliver needs to come clean to her, she just might understand. As he always does, he leaves people in the dark for them to come to their own conclusions. He loves her, told her so, kept her at arms length to so called protect her, he keeps pushing her away. This time she’s let him know she’s hurting, has wanted a relationship with him, she doesn’t understand his willingness to turn to Merlyn when he has been so dead set against that since the undertaking season 1. She doesn’t understand his need for Merlyn’s help. The answer is- tell her everything what’s happened to him. Secrets.

      • kelly says:

        True, but she stormed away shortly after he got there, and when he followed her to try to explain she said she didn’t want to talk to him, didn’t want him to love her, and stormed away again, so he didn’t really have a chance to tell here everything. Maybe next week, I hope, unless he is too hurt by her last statement to try to change her mind.

    • Lex says:

      Yes. It’s always so disappointing when women stand up to the guy they’re in love with and demand to be a priority rather than an afterthought, especially when he has a problem with coming clean to the people he loves. Oliver never keeps secrets. Nope.

    • Valie says:

      Sit down, Baby! You’ll fall on your ass when you hear Oliver say : You were right Felicity!

    • Totallygraphic says:

      I totally agree it’s fine for her to give him the okay on killing someone (Slade and Ra’s) when she sees fit however when it comes to him needing to train with Merlyn to be able to save his family and the city she’s not okay with it. Its double standards and right now im starting to really dislike the way her character is heading

    • Celina says:

      I agree… She’s been annoying lately…
      When they were just friends (with a little of I like him/her more then just friends), was way better. Then, they decided to say out loud that they like each other and this drama started…

  9. James D says:

    Ok episode. So it would seem we’ll never know how in God’s green earth Oliver was able to come back from the dead, ok i guess. Laurel dear I’ve been routing for you, you show signs of being a major BAMF one day but seriously how are you A) going to unmask a guy in the middle of a crowded street B) kneel down beside said guy while there is a major fight going down. BTW am I the only one who got a big West Side Story vibe from the two gangs facing off from each other i was half expecting synchronized snapping and Jazz hands. In my own personal preference I’ve never been a huge Ollicity fan (Please don’t hate on me, just my opinion) but that ending was pretty brutal. Felicity you seriously need to get off your high horse and come back to reality where things aren’t black and white sometimes you got to dance with the devil to get things done and Oliver sees what needs to be done. while she may have had a point she said it out of anger and disappointment not out of wisdom or love for Oliver. should be interesting to see how this all plays out.

    • Arsenal says:

      All good points to which I agree with, especially the one about Felicity. I want to say good riddance to Olicity, but it would be premature to think it’s over. So, I’ll just have to deal with it until that time comes.

    • Lex says:

      We need Roy to do the Officer Krupke song with Lance now!

  10. CM says:



  11. Dean says:

    I don’t completely disagree with Felicity’s choice. Women Oliver tends to love get scrwed, Huntress is in jail, the cop got crippled, Shado and Sara are dead. I’d say Felicity made the right choice as for Malcolm well Oliver needs to beat Ra’s with Maseo devoted to the League Malcom is the only candiate.

    • CM says:

      Yet Felicity never seemed “blonder” than in that moment in the alley.

      • Sara K says:

        Blonder? She is blonde…well she dyes it… but I don’t get your comment. Felicity stuck to her moral ground in that scene. I applaud her for not being subservient to Olivers wishes.

        • Samara says:

          Felicity knows Oliver’s sense of morality pretty well, so she should know that for him to make this decision to work with Malcom, it means the situation in really dire. She was so judgmental and didn’t even give him the chance to explain himself. She was such a brat!

          • Drew says:

            The whole reason that Felicity joined the team was because she didn’t see things the way Oliver does. I love that they reminded her of that.

          • Sam says:

            She was upset and hurting. And let’s face it, most of the angst on TV could be solved with a proper conversation. There just wasn’t time.

        • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

          Thank you; forgetting for a moment that describing a personality as “blonde” is so 1982, the dismissive inference still wouldn’t apply here.

        • Speedy says:

          I totally agree with you. I can’t believe people are turning against her. Let’s examine what Malcolm has done: he killed Thea and Oliver’s father along with EVERYONE on that boat, planned a massive event that was meant to kill WAY MORE than the 503 people it actually killed, including his son, killed Sara (this was on him), and to do that last thing, he drugged his daughter and turned her into a murderer. So for Oliver to team up with him makes Oliver look bad–not to mention the fact that he just asked the guy he beat at the end of S1 to train him. Nope. I’m with Felicity (and, hopefully, Dig) on this one.

          • kelly says:

            Yes, but it was quite obvious in that fight scene that Oliver is no match for Raj with a sword, and they said that the only one who has a chance of beating him is one who has been trained by him because they know his moves. So, if it is a choice between being run through by a sword again and seeing your sister killed, or being trained by a mass murderer and maybe being able to save your sister, I understand his choice! :)

          • Samara says:

            While all that is true there’s still the question that Thea’s life is still in danger from Ra’s and if/when he comes for her, if Oliver is still unprepared then, there’s a high chance Thea & Oliver will die.
            I doubt Oliver is that shortsighted as to forget what Malcom has done, This is not about Oliver and Malcom bonding but he’s the best option there is if he ever wishes to defeat Ra’s.

          • brenna says:

            I agree with you Speedy. However, I do see how Oliver would want to use Merlyn’s skill so that he can protect everyone. I’m not sure how wise it is, but I see it. I can also see how Felicity is completely against it. I couldn’t understand Roy being all about joining Merlyn and talking about how he saved Thea, completely forgetting all of his friends that Merlyn killed in the Glades and how he endanged Thea and Oliver for his own personal gain.

          • Anne says:

            Yes I have to wonder what Dig was thinking? Because you know he has thoughts he always does and he tells it like it is. What was Roy thinking? I am with felicity on this one, not because she is a woman but she stood her ground and left her morality intact. Of course Oliver rocked her boat with he mention Malcom she thought she knew him but now finds she didn’t. Can’t wait for next week. BTW if she gets involved with Ray so what how many girls has Oliver slept with. Maybe Oliver deserves a wake up call.

    • cody says:

      yet you forgot to mention that oliver has “Loved Laurel more than half of his life” and she became the black canary. i kind of find it odd though throughout the whole season with oilicity they never mention olivers little monologue to laurel last season when laurel found out that sara and Oliver were together … meaning he probably loves her still because that kind of love doesn’t die

      • Mary says:

        He cheated on her with her sister, that’s not love.

        • dana says:

          Its so sick if you think about it lol . How is that true love?

        • cody says:

          also oliver never commits until the start of season 1(although he still never fully commited) because he was a PLAYBOY he got scared of commitment so he slept with sara that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care for her it’s just he was scared and then laurel and him slept together at the end of season 1 then she completely chucked it out of her memory and and so when sara came back they had an understanding of each other due to the island so they got together but it doesn’t mean that he loved sara but it also doesn’t mean that he doesn’t still love laurel it’s probably just buried deep down for his own emotional safety. P.s.if you remember smallville they deviated a lot from the comics but they still kept clarks final love interest as lois but they made lana and others as his journey to loving lois. also katie cassidy is leading lady so shows tend to end off with the leading male/female characters being the final love interests for each other as of shows over the last couple of years(i.e. castle, the mentalist, bones, most cw shows, grey’s anatomy, scandal is on the journey towards it, chuck, grimm, etc.) unless it’s a full on procedural show aka the ones that are on cbs that more so have an equally(in a sense) lead cast throughout all of the cast members (i.e. criminal minds, csi etc.)

      • dana says:

        Honey that ship has sailed longtime ago, no chemistry and he banged her sister mumultiple times while committed to her. He lied to her face numerous times and the writers dont exactly follow the comics, and even in the comics oliver and canary are divorced.

        • Sil says:

          He got a girl pregnant, which he doesn’t know about yet. He banged the club owner’s to be wife at the rehearsal dinner. What? He loves Laurel in a life long caring way, but not in love with her. Oliver is now coming into his own, knowing who he is, understanding , realizing and soon to get what he wants in his life. A true love. That is not Laurel.

        • Tobias says:

          Oliver and Dinah are divorced because they were apart for long periods. They are still in love in the comics and have a child. I can’t wait for this Olicity crap to die off.

          • Tobias says:

            Ahh shoot. Had a brain fart on this post. The main reason Dinah and Oliver divorce is because Dinah is unable to bear children (from being tortured) and she really wanted to give Oliver what he wanted and she wasn’t able to which caused a rift between the two. Also… the Canary and Arrow are not divorced, they never got married. Oliver proposed but Dinah rejrcted it. Read The Green Arrow: Longbow Hunters.

            That ship has NOT sailed.

          • Lex says:

            Well, I’m certainly glad that ship hasn’t sailed… but it’s still the comic book, not the show. Arrow has never adhered exactly to the comic books, nor should they because this is an adaptation.

          • Dj says:

            The comics is the shows outline. My favorite character on the show is Sara. But the show was never going to let Sara stay the Canary. Olicity is a shippers pipe dream, because in the end Oliver is destined to be with Laurel.

          • Briggs says:

            The EPs have said they ‘respect the source material’, but they ‘aren’t slaves to it’. And Guggenheim says there is no endgame. So…

          • Dj says:

            The only way I would believe that is if they killed Laurel off which isn’t going to happen. There two reasons to have Laurel on the show. be the Canary which (sadly) she has become. 2. Oliver’s main romantic interest which will happen.

          • Briggs says:

            How much proof do you need that they aren’t slaves to the source material?
            *Laurel’s change in occupation
            *Two people on his team that weren’t there int he comics
            *Dinah Drake Lance being alive and well, and divorced from Quentin
            *Oliver’s time away not being completely on the island
            *The ID of Merlyn
            *Roy not being his ward
            What makes you think they aren’t going to continue to change canon if they obviously aren’t following it in the first place?
            (Oh, and as a Black Canary fan? I am insulted that you think she only has two purposes. She’s allowed to have her own storylines that have *nothing to do* with Ollie. I ‘met’ her when she was mourning his death, and she is more than capable of carrying her own story. What you just said was patently untrue. Get re-educated on Dinah Laurel Lance, then come back and talk to me.)

          • Dj says:

            In the comics she has lots of different purpose. There is way more freedom and more space to feature her. But on a show where she isn’t the star not so much. Like I said on this show her character was cast to fill a role.

          • Briggs says:

            I’m not convinced it’s the one you want her to have. If they were still going to pursue her as a love interest, there would be some indication of it, aside from her being BC (which isn’t good enough, since she’s been BC without him, too). They’ve following canon enough to make it recognizable, but I really don’t think they’re following it word for word. Especially since Cupid was supposed to be a BC villainess as well, and she wasn’t..

      • Lex says:

        I have a theory that Oliver was still seeing the Laurel he created on the island in that speech. She was a construct at that point, because the whole thing felt completely forced, and she proves she wasn’t the person he thought she was in the beginning of season two when we get yet another reason for her to be bitter in the aftermath of Tommy’s death. Then again, I find anything romantic between Laurel and Oliver to be extremely painful, especially in season 1. Love KC and SA, but dear god is there a complete lack of chemistry between the two.

        And the “loving Laurel half his life” thing? I don’t think it counts when 80% of the time he was with her he was banging someone else, broken up with her for banging someone else, and then taken back for unknown reasons even though he banged someone else and odds are he’d be doing it again in the future. Good times.

      • brenna says:

        Based on Laurel and Oliver in the show, I’ll never believe he truly loved her. You don’t sleep around, get another person pregnant, sleep with her sister then and in present day, when you truly love someone. He cares about her and and regrets the way he treated her, but I can’t see that he ever was truly in love with her. And that’s regardless of whatever happens with Oliver and Felicity.

      • Isobel says:

        This is a tv show not the comics they can change things. After being with Laurel’s sister twice and getting another girl pregnant while he was with Laurel I have no idea why people think Oliver loves her now or did ever fully love her in the past. He repeated cheated on her and her line about knowing him like the back of her hand became ridiculous, she didn’t know him at all.

      • Drew says:

        You’ll notice that most of the people here love talking about characters changing and growing together when it is Oliver and Felicity (he killed people. She used to have a pretty big problem with that), but if you suggest that Oliver and Laurel are both on paths that will allow them to understand each other and grow together, those same people go back to his being an evil cheater years earlier.
        It is season 3. Anything can happen before the show ends. Whether romantic or not, I think that Oliver and Laurel will be growing closer in the future.

        • aunni says:

          and he says he doesnt care abt lauriver

        • Arsenal says:

          We’re in complete agreement. I’ve said, a few times now, that people are kidding themselves if they think Laurel will never get back with Oliver at some point in the show’s lifespan. In response to this, I’m always given the same defense: Oliver cheated on Laurel with her sister or the writers don’t follow canon. The funny thing about the latter is that I don’t mention anything about canon. Simply because it’s Laurel, they assume this is why I think it will happen. As far as the cheating thing goes, it’s already so far in the past that it’s become irrelevant (specifically if it happens Season 6 or 7).

          Arrow is just rolling with Olicity for now, which is understandable. The producers will milk that concept for all it’s worth. But to think it’s always and only going to be Felicity with him (romantically anyway) seems a little shortsighted to me. If Oliver at some point can be in a committed/healthy relationship with Felicity, it would prove that he had changed. I believe there could open the door for Laurel and actually make sense. Just my opinion.

          • cody says:

            amen although i think about partially because of canon with the comics but also because of tv’s trend with love interests throughout the 2 leads (SA & KC)

  12. GirlvsTV says:

    The level of plot induced stupidity in this episode was astounding. Why was Digg, the most experienced fighter, sitting in the Arrow cave while Roy and Laurel went out? Why did Roy, who only one episode ago warned Malcolm about Thea, suddenly start believing they should team up with Merlyn? Why would he ever believe that nonsense Thea was spouting off about how Merlyn’s mass murder of over 500 people (including her brother) was a misguided way to show he cares? Especially since he knows what Malcolm did to her? And Felicity was absolutely right, why in God’s name would Oliver team up with Malcolm (who is now an expert swordsman I guess, even though he is the Dark Archer)? None of this would be happening if it were not for Malcolm, so I’m crossing my fingers in a few eps we’ll see Oliver team up with R’as to take down Merlyn. I have no sympathy for that character after what he did to Thea. None. The only people who had their heads on straight in this episode were Sin, Felicity and Diggle. Also: #TellQuentin

    • Drew says:

      I am chalking Diggle being sidelined up to his having a wife(ish) and kid to get home to.

      • GirlvsTV says:

        But he was out with Roy and fighting one on one with Brick in the episode before last. He didn’t get stuck in the Arrow cave until Laurel put her buckles on and that just makes no sense. If Laurel has to be included then it would make way more sense for Roy and Digg to both be going as well. I mean it seemed like they needed all the help they could get out there.

    • Anna says:

      Yep. I have no sympathy for Merlyn. I can’t believe more people aren’t outraged that Arrow is writing this storyline.

      • kelly says:

        It does seem strange that it looks like they are trying to redeem Merlyn now. Maybe to show that even good men can be corrupted and turn into monsters? Or maybe they just like Barrowman and are trying to think of ways to keep using him!

        • Lex says:

          I’d love for them to find ways to keep Barrowman in the picture, but he always looks like he’s having so much fun being evil! I don’t want that taken away for him to be a broody antihero on the road to redemption! We already Oliver for that!

    • Sabrina a says:

      Exactly right! It makes no sense to have Digg in front of the computer with Felicity while sending Laurel and Roy out. Digg is the most experienced fighter of the 3, and his character just wouldn’t so that.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      Ra’s is an even bigger danger than Merlyn. They thought of teaming up with him because of their lack of options. Ra’s wants to kill Oliver, he’s the immediate danger, not Malcolm who doesn’t want to kill Oliver. He’s between a rock and a hard place.

  13. Alichat says:

    BTW……nominee for Quote of the Week…..”You that red streak I’ve been hearing about on TV?” “Wrong city”

  14. Samara says:

    Where was Ray Palmer..he needs to be in every episode

    • Josh says:

      No he does not didn’t miss ol creepy one bit. don’t worry he will be back to be a distraction for Felicity until Oliver spills all he has done to protect Felicity and Thea and that Felicity was the last thing on his mind.

      • Samara says:

        I could care less about love triangles..whoever ends up with Felicity does not worry me..I love Ray because he brings much needed comic relief to this otherwise dark gloomy show.
        It used to be Felicity but nowadays she has lost that humorous flare she used to have.

        • Josh says:

          Blame the writers for that. Oliver and Felicity wouldn’t have this angst if they didn’t write it. I know you don’t care for triangles I don’t either. I don’t find Ray that entertaining

  15. James says:

    This episode confirms it: Thea is a goner. She is gonna die at the end of the season. Do I get TV Line points now or later?

  16. GildedRose says:

    There were a lot of great parts to this Arrow ep. They managed to make Malcolm Merlyn more human. I like Tatsu and her husband. I was happy to see Oliver back. I loved Felicity taking a stand against letting Malcolm join the team & the ramifications of it, that Diggle had her back, that they found another way. That heartbreaker at the end with Oliver and Felicity? Perfection. I understood Oliver’s mindset. I understood Felicity’s. That’s what makes them compelling. Neither is wrong. It’s a great conflict for them and now I want to see how Arrow will get them back together. Cheering for them all the way! Glad Quentin finally learned the truth.

    There were some clunky parts, too, like the continued sidelining of Diggle from the action when he’s the most experienced soldier on the field. What is up with that nonsense?

  17. antisocialbutterflie says:

    It isn’t really plot related, but it just occurred to me… Oliver doesn’t have the money for a bodyguard, so how exactly is Diggle getting paid?

    • Samara says:

      So has Oliver lost absolutely everything, like he has no penny to his name whatsoever. Cause if that is the case how can he still afford to keep up with being a vigilante.

    • Anna says:

      He’s living off Lyla’s salary. Arrow’s progressive like that. Oliver received an insurance policy after his mom died. These are answers from the Arrow comics 2.5 and MG, although really, they should be addressed on the show.

      • antisocialbutterflie says:

        Thank you. I suspected it was something like that. It just struck me as odd that they made Felicity get a crappy retail job (albeit temporarily), and Roy obviously works at Verdant, but Diggle gets to play with Oliver all day.

      • Tasha says:

        Thank you. Have have been wondering how diggle makes a living if he doesn’t work. It’s ridiculous that they have never addressed this on the show especially since they show felicity, Roy, Thea and Laural at work.
        They also haven’t address how Oliver manages financially. If he got an insurance policy why did he say he was broke in the season premier & why did felicity have to buy his bed?

        • Briggs says:

          Chances are, it wasn’t that he couldn’t afford it. I’m thinking Felicity didn’t like him sleeping on the floor (Oliver being the kind of guy used to sleeping pretty much anywhere if need be), so she convinced him to let her buy him a bed. We don’t really know where, if anywhere, he’s getting money at this point, but that’s what I imagine transpired with the whole bed thing.

    • Cyndi says:

      This is what I’ve been thinking about for weeks. How could a rich person be stupid enough to tie up every last cent they own in their company? Even poor people have savings accounts that they stash money in from time to time. I mean come on, I know it’s a tv show and all, but it makes no sense at all.

      They did this with Hodgins on Bones as well. Who has no insurance for theft? I mean rich people, you are that way for a reason-be smarter people.

    • Lex says:

      Technically Oliver could take Stellmoor to court for fraud and regain his fortune that way, but this isn’t a legal drama, and I’d rather have him out on the streets Arrow’ing people than sitting in a courtroom for hours on end listening to lawyers argue over every teeny tiny asset.

  18. Chris says:

    I was hoping we’d get to see Oliver’s reaction to Laurel taking over as the Black Canary but I guess it’ll have to wait until next week. I could have done without all the Olicity nonsense at the end. I honestly have no idea why she’s fighting him on this. For all the hypocritical things Oliver has done, this barely cracks the top five, but I guess they need to prolong the drama between them. Whatever. I liked it much better when they were just friends because at least we got to see them being adorable together. They just aren’t built to be some angst ridden couple and the more they try to make them one, the less likable either character becomes. But that’s just my opinion.

    • Samara says:

      True, that Olicity scene ruined a good episode.

    • pat says:

      I did not like the ending either. It seemed out of character for someone that has loved Oliver since season one to suddenly start giving excuses of why they can’t be together. I prefer oliver with any other woman other than laurel, so I don’t really mind olicity. I guess the writers are trying to give felicity cause to get closer to Ray since she does not approve of the malcom and oliver training.

  19. Emily says:

    underwhelmed overall by the uprising story and it felt like a corny ending. laurel continues to annoy me and having lance only now find out that it wasn’t sara in the leather bothered me.

    i’m 100% on felicity’s side. i totally understand her perspective. i get oliver’s too, but i would never say that what she said to him is harsh. i think it was due. oliver constantly makes decisions for other people and it’s about time that felicity told him where she draws the line. this show needs felicity as a moral compass. she needs to be the light to oliver’s dark confusion. when oliver wanders into a grey area, she needs to be there to shine that light. i definitely agreed with her POV in this one and i’m very glad she stood her ground.

    that said, these are not insurmountable obstacles. i’m a fan of oliver and felicity together, and i truly believe this was basically just the beginning. now felicity can play it safe with ray and take a step back from giving everything to oliver like she has for years. she needs the space to grow and to accept certain truths about him, and he needs the space to understand his own identity. definitely just the beginning for these two, and i look forward to more development. i just really hope they don’t play this out by avoiding having those two in scenes together. keep giving us moments, even if they’re angsty. it’ll be worth it in the long run.

    • Lex says:

      Snaps to you for all of this. In the long run this is giving Felicity back some of her autonomy and personhood, which is what I think this season is about for her – she needs to be able to be an equal with Oliver, and standing her ground was a big part of that. Now that she’s swung from having Oliver be the center of her universe to trying to take a few steps back, the rest of the season will be about them finding an equilibrium where they’re both giving and receiving in the same amounts. They need to get back to being partners, and then they’ll be on even footing to move forward as lovers. It’s only season 3, so there will still be stuff to overcome, but I don’t have any problem complicating a relationship that I want to happen. I can wait, and I’d rather they do it right than give instant gratification.

      • Mena says:

        Or love triangles. You know, Ray would be a rebound thing for Felicity. I think she cares about him but keeps him at arms length. No entanglements. Love triangles are given TV trope. An easy way to prolong angst for any said couple or friends. To me it’s cliche soap opera. Arrow have started this long arc for Oliver to find his identity with everyone else in side arcs of the same thing. I hope this finds a logical TV conclusion soon because it can get old and boring.

  20. Liz says:

    This episode was a little boring. I want no part in redeeming Malcolm. He’s the worst. Felicity was like a Queen on the throne and I loved it. I thought she was hurtful to Oliver but I understood why so I’m ok with that Olicity scene. They could be great together but a lot of other things have to happen first. I’m fine with it.

    Diggle needs more screen time. Thank god for Sin telling Quentin the truth. I love Tatsu and hope she comes back to Starling. She’s awesome. Don’t care about anyone else.

  21. Sam says:

    I don’t know why people are hating on Felicity. The man she loved just came back from the dead and instead of the happy reunion she was fantasising about, he jumped straight back into business and said he was teaming up with the man who sent him to die and also made his sister a killer. Not to mention he orchestrated Sara’s murder and killed all those people in the Undertaking. The logic is not there. 100% on Felicity’s side. She was hurting. Don’t blame her. I’m actually glad there’s some conflict between them. It would be boring if she conceded to everything Oliver wanted to do. No, Felicity is strong minded and stands by her beliefs. That’s what makes her special, that’s who Oliver fell in love with. And Oliver needs to learn that Felicity won’t always be around. He’s complacent with her heart and feelings. This will give him a push into reality.

    • Netty says:

      I really hope his love for Felicity does not turn him into a marshmallow. I love the Oliver who does what needs to be done, and right now he needs is to be trained by Malcom. This ain’t a soap, Felicity can’t expect that throwing the phrase ‘woman you love’ a bunch of times should change his mind and I hope it doesn’t.
      When she knows the real reason why he’s doing it then she will come around, or not! It’s not really important. But the writers need to stop boring us with this will they wont they BS. At this point I just hope Oliver walks away from this romantic arc and stops throwing around those ridiculous ‘I love You’ phrases. They only get him in trouble.
      And Felicity needs to stop acting like a wife being all emotional & hurt without even hearing his explanation. She used to be the star of the show, its sad to see her character be reduced to this.

  22. Claire says:

    Felicity and her strength of character. Emily Bett did a brilliant job with that ending scene — good stuff. It was reminiscent of the foundry scene in S1 when Felicity locked the doors on Oliver protesting his approach to the matters at hand. She stood up to him and walked out — bravo! That scene in S1 solidified my love for this character. Last week, I was concerned with what they were doing with regards to Felicity—aiding in the insanity by helping with the Sara deception—still scratching my head with that one. But this week, she’s back to herself thankfully. And let’s be clear, you have Roy doing a 180 from last week regarding Malcolm — every part of this teaming up with Malcolm is wonky.

  23. Alison Tabour says:

    Disappointing episode because I feel like I am seeing a lot of stuff I have seen before. (Slade bugged the Queen Mansion now Merlin bugs the Arrow cave). Roy and Black Canary are awful. BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL ARROW TEAM OF OLIVER, DIG & FELICITY.
    The only redeeming parts where when Diggle and Felicity refuse to work with Merlyn. And when Felicity tells Oliver how low he is diving. Oliver is an idiot for trying (even thinking) he is going to kill Ra’s. If Oliver had half a brain he would realize how much he could actually learn from Ra’s.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      Felicity wasn’t a part of the original team, she didn’t become part of the team until halfway through the first season. Roy and BC are awesome.

      How the hell would Oliver learn from Ra’s? Ra’s wants to kill him and his sister.

      • aunni says:

        sometimes ur felicity hates really piss me Rob,

        • Rob Watkins says:

          I don’t hate her, I like her a lot, though I’m not caring for the melodrama. She’s best when she’s a part of the team, not weeping. I’m more irritated by Felicity fans than I am the character. They want to make the show about her, and consistently forget that she wasn’t an integral part of the show since the beginning. She was added later.

          Notice that I didn’t complain about her spat with Oliver this episode. I can understand it even though I don’t agree with her. I get that you don’t want to make a deal with the devil, but he’s between a rock and a hard place. It’s either train with Malcolm or get murdered by Ra’s.

      • Brggs says:

        If you think that, you weren’t paying attention. When we met her in Season 1, I knew they were setting her up as his tech person, *even if that wasn’t their original intent*. Even if she wasn’t in on the secret, she was working directly with Oliver every time, as opposed to getting phone calls from the vigilante. And it’s not like she didn’t know something was up, she said as much when she had to take Oliver back to the Foundry to save his life and keep his ID a secret. She was more a part of Team Arrow than Laurel was.

        • Rob Watkins says:

          Then Laurel has as much claim as Felicity because she was also working with Oliver if we go with your argument. I’m not insulting her, I’m calling it like it is, she wasn’t an official part of the team. Whether she knew something was up is irrelevant. She wasn’t on the team. Her fans are so ridiculous sometimes. She was apart of the team from the beginning, and now she’s Oliver’s conscience and his heart, and apparently the only thing worth watching on the show.

          She’s integral to the team, but Oliver is his own man, and he’s changing not simply for her.

          The reactions I’m seeing are more or less confirming what I’ve believed for a while, the characters are all fine as long as you cut out the melodrama. The change in people’s perceptions of Laurel and Thea have been amazing. They were hated in the first two seasons, but when you get them in on the action, people begin to turn around. Felicity is great with the comedy and I even like the romance between her and Oliver, but it’s the clichéd love triangle and soapiness of the past few episodes that have gotten to a number of fans of the show.

          • Briggs says:

            Laurel was not working with Oliver (interesting that you cherry-picked this part). She was working the vigilante as an informant. Whereas Felicity was actually performing a function as his tech person, even if she wasn’t in on the secret. i repeat, *Diggle* considered her part of the team, and Oliver said as much when they talked at the end of 1×14. They never made similar comments about Laurel.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Oliver IS the vigilante. It didn’t matter whether she knew, just like it doesn’t matter if Gordon knows who Batman is. He’s part of Batman’s team. Laurel worked with the vigilante and so did Felicity, but I don’t consider them officially part of the team until either were down in the foundry. Even if I agreed with your point, there wasn’t part of the original team. The original Team was Oliver and Diggle. She came later, and was made officially part of the team halfway through.

          • Briggs says:

            The term ‘Team Arrow’ wasn’t a thing until after Felicity joined. Until then, it was just Oliver and Diggle. So unless you can prove the term predated Felicity, she *is* a member of the original Team Arrow.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            By the way, an informant is a function.

            And writers often suck up to fans and character regardless of whether something is true or not. It was one of my pet peeves about Smallville. They constantly attributed things to her that weren’t true.

          • Briggs says:

            An informant is just that. An informant. Commissioner Gordon was an informant. That did not make him part of the Batfamily.
            You just like taking stuff from Felicity that’s rightfully hers. Again, prove that the term ‘Team Arrow’ predated Felicity, and I’ll let it go. You’ve always been more pro-Laurel, anyway.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Who cares when the term originated? Two people constitutes a team, and Oliver worked with Diggle. Just FYI, I don’t like using the term due to the Twilight parallel.

          • Briggs says:

            AGAIN, both Oliver and Diggle felt she was part of the team before they pulled her in all the way. And Team Arrow has nothing to do with that Twilight crap, it would only be a parallel if I was proclaiming either Team Felicity or Team Laurel, which I am not.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Gordon is an integral part of the Bat family, he’s not merely an informant, Batman needs someone inside the law to help him, plus he’s not just an ally, he’s a friend. Read Year One or watch the Dark Knight Trilogy and tell me Gordon is simply Batman’s informant. Unfortunately he can be written that way, but he’s an integral part of the Batman mythos that to not consider him part of the Batfamily is an injustice.

            I don’t like taking stuff from Felicity, I just don’t enjoy people attributing things to characters that don’t belong. When Oliver was dying how come Diggle, Tommy, and Laurel weren’t part of his life flashing before his eyes? I’m not more pro-Laurel or anti-Felicity. I like both characters. I think they are interesting, but wish some fans would stop playing them off one another. I like Laurel, especially what they are doing with her now. I also enjoy Felicity, her tech savvy, and her humor. I even enjoy her romance with Oliver, but she’s not the reason he’s changing, nor is she his conscience. Diggle is usually the voice of reason on the team because of his age and experience. I liked what she said at the end, even if I don’t necessarily agree with it. Her being concerned that Oliver is making a deal with the devil is good drama, but not when it gets tangled in romantic melodrama.

          • Briggs says:

            I’ve been a fan of Batman since I was 9. Gordon may have been a friend, even a brother in arms, but in order to maintain plausible deniability, he had to maintain a distance from the Dark Knight. So no, he wasn’t part of the Bafamily. Not the way Alfred was.
            I’m not sure we’re watching the same show. Felicity has a role in helping Oliver grow, but it’s different from how Diggle helps him. Diggle is a fellow soldier. Felicity is human, showing how the people they save feel. Not saying she’s his moral compass, but she has made him think in a different way than Diggle makes him think. It’s part of why people love her.
            And you are often more positive about Laurel than you are Felicity, hence my confusion.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Clearly Oliver doesn’t like calling it Team Arrow because of the association (which was the word I was searching for, sorry). On Smallville, Clark and the writers constantly attributed stuff to Chloe that I didn’t agree with. Just because they say so doesn’t mean I have to agree. I watched Smallville and Arrow, and based on my observations, I reached different conclusions. A big difference between these two shows is I actually like Felicity, I just don’t consider her a part of the original team. The team grew over time. You seem to take offense to that POV. Clearly she was the next part of the team to be added after Diggle, but only after Oliver was sure she could be trusted. The same went for Diggle.

          • Briggs says:

            Oliver’s preference doesn’t mean much, since the term started among the fandom, not on the show. :) He’s allowed to feel how he wants, though.
            I thought Oliver pulled her in after getting shot by his mother and needing a ride. Would he have just dragged himself back to the Foundry, bleeding heavily and potentially passing out on the way home, if he decide he couldn’t trust Felicity after all?

          • Rob Watkins says:

            “Oliver’s preference doesn’t mean much, since the term started among the fandom, not on the show. :) He’s allowed to feel how he wants, though.”
            Then why bring up the term if it’s irrelevant as to when they are a team?

            “I thought Oliver pulled her in after getting shot by his mother and needing a ride. Would he have just dragged himself back to the Foundry, bleeding heavily and potentially passing out on the way home, if he decide he couldn’t trust Felicity after all?”
            What? He did trust her. That’s my point, by then he felt he could trust her to keep his secret, and only then do I consider her officially part of the team. He didn’t let her in on the secret immediately. Why would he? He’s breaking the law.

          • Briggs says:

            Because this isn’t about Oliver. It’s about who should be considered the original Team Arrow in the mythos. His opinion of the name doesn’t mean much when it comes to that. I’m not sure how Bruce felt about the term ‘Batfamily’.,,
            And my point was he hadn’t chosen to trust her in the heat of the moment. He did his homework on both of them, but he didn’t exactly have the option of choosing when he brought them in. He was already trusting her plenty. Remember the looks she gave him from day one when he tried to sell her some ridiculous lie? Continuing to go to her was a risk, just because of that alone, because she could have reported him at any time, especially with the armored car thing. He had to have trusted her before getting into that car.

      • Lex says:

        Google “Original Team Arrow.” Guess what three characters are in the first image that comes up? Critics weren’t very aware of the show until they had the Oliver-Diggle-Felicity dynamic playing. I loved Sara, I like Roy, but the Arrowcave is getting crowded, and putting Diggle on the sidelines is getting old.

        • Rob Watkins says:

          The critics were aware of it, but the show was still in its infancy then. It was just halfway through season 1. I don’t know how this is at all controversial. She wasn’t part of the team until a few episodes AFTER Diggle started teaming up with Oliver, ergo, she wasn’t the original part of the team.

          • Briggs says:

            Are you sure you aren’t just nit-picking? You are literally the only person making this argument that I know of.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            I prefer the term pedantic, but it’s still valid. She was an outside consultant, but not part of the team. I’m not even knocking the character, but she wasn’t there from the beginning. She wasn’t even introduced until episode 3. I’m not knocking her, but facts are facts.

          • Briggs says:

            And the fact is, both Oliver and Diggle considered her a member of the team before she joined officially. True, they used the word ‘honorary’, but still. That she was considered a member at all flies in the face of what you’ve been saying. And they never, never, used that word to refer to Laurel in the first season.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Honorary, as in, not official. And the writers are sucking up to the fans, hence why we got that dumb episode. It’s very simple, she’s not shown to be officially part of the team. It doesn’t matter what they or the writers say. What they showed was different. On Smallville, they claimed Chloe left in season 10 to let Clark grow up, yet it’s clear in season 9, that wasn’t why she was leaving. They also had Clark tell her that she’s saved him more than he’s saved her when that’s just not true. Writers create these moments for the “Daaawwww” factor, regardless of whether it bares out in reality.

            This episode wasn’t about Felcity, I wish people would stop making it about her. Let’s talk more about Oliver’s return which was way more interesting.

          • Briggs says:

            You keep saying you don’t hate Felicity, but you keep downplaying her involvement in the plot (something I don’t see you do with Laurel). They’d already written several eps and had decided to keep her long before she appeared in episode 3. That grew into her being part of the team, because *they enjoyed writing her*. It had nothing to do with pandering to the fans. And no, the ep wasn’t about her, but I don’t see where the flashbacks were playing any part in our conversation.
            Oliver’s return is 20 minutes old, show time. I once speculated that Smallville wouldn’t last past the first ep. It went for 10 seasons (for better or worse). So I don’t speculate, anymore. I may guess, but I don’t do ‘endgame’, and I have a habit letting other people know why they shouldn’t, either. Just because I’ve seen the ‘butthurt’ when things don’t go people’s ways, and the fallout should Ray leave by the end of the season has the potential to be horrific. And that’s not speculation, that’s me voicing my dread.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Only because you keep claiming she does things she doesn’t. I didn’t downplay her involvement. She was involved, just not as part of the team, nor is she THE reason for Oliver’s change. She’s A reason. I don’t think she walks on water, like some seem to think.

            “It had nothing to do with pandering to the fans.”
            THis is why we have disagreements. I didn’t say they write her to pander to fans. They make certain claims and write some of the romance to pander to fans. Oh, and they wrote the secret origins to pander despite having more pressing matters like Ra’s or Malcolm, but sure, lets take the time to show her mother and her being goth.

            While I don’t have a problem with speculation, I get where you’re coming from. So many people get caught up in the stories they create in their own head of where they see something going that when the story doesn’t go in that direction, they balk.

          • Briggs says:

            Nope. I’m telling you like it is. You may not like that she’s associated with the original Team Arrow, but that’s what it is. Nobody was calling it Team Arrow until she joined. So, she’s part of the original Team Arrow. Your nitpicking doesn’t make it less true.
            And when did I say she was THE reason he changed? She helped, but I never said she was THE reason. Quote me.
            The fact that the romance is organic and makes sense has a lot to do with it. I realize you want him with Laurel, but that doesn’t change the fact that they have chemistry. They’re going where the story leaves them. Does the end of the last ep look like they’re pandering? Not by some of the reactions I’ve been seeing, it doesn’t.
            I know a fan of Ray who I can see just losing it when they finally shift him to a new series without Felicity (who, despite what some may tell you, is not going anywhere, according to the EPs). I only say this because of the way this person reacts when anyone mentions the Ray/Felicity pairing. (I have nothing against it, but I know it’s not a lasting thing, especially if he knows she’s preoccupied elsewhere.)

          • Rob Watkins says:

            No, you’re telling me how you see it. Ugh, there we go again with the nomenclature. It doesn’t matter what the team was called, all that matters is that Oliver and Diggle was the first team. It’s not nitpicky. Nitpicky means putting weight onto insignificant minutia, but when we’re on the topic of what constituted the first team, when someone joined is important. What they were or weren’t called isn’t. You’re the one being nitpicky.

            Your comment about me wanting him with Laurel proves how little you’ve been paying attention. I don’t want him with Laurel romantically. I think Stephen and Katie work well when it’s not about romance plus the characters have so much water under that bridge, whereas Stephen and Emily have excellent romantic chemistry, I simply don’t want it to do what it’s been doing which is adding too much melodrama.

            Regarding the last scene of the episode, I didn’t like that it got wrapped up in the Olicity of it all instead of a mere difference of philosophy (always good to have conflict between characters). Christ she held it against him that he didn’t call, but he told her that he didn’t have cell reception.

          • Briggs says:

            When? When did he tell her he didn’t have cell service? She didn’t exactly give him time to explain himself. And even if he did, she’s emotional right now, so if we give her a minute, she may calm down.
            And it’s not like all the melodrama since the show came back has been about Olicity. Laurel has been dealing with stuff of her own. Every time Sara has come up, in anyway, it’s been a whole knew kind of pain.
            And then there were light moments, like when Diggle said what Oliver usually did when they toasted with vodka and admitted he didn’t know what it meant. They were careful to keep it even, I think,

          • Rob Watkins says:

            He told the entire team that he didn’t have cell service when he got back to the foundry. Felicity gets a pass for being overdramatic and not listening, but if Laurel did it, look out. I enjoyed her disagreeing with Oliver about his choice to learn from Malcolm, regardless of who’s side I’m on (Oliver’s by the way), but I didn’t like that it was wrapped around being a girl he loved.

            Laurel has had plenty of melodrama in the past, but I think the not telling her father storyline works. To me, it’s very understandable. I’ve never pretended to be a loved one, but I understand keeping the truth of a loved one’s death from a family member because you are concerned about his or her health.

          • Briggs says:

            If you’re referring to when she went off on her sister because she brought Oliver to dinner with her, we weren’t meant to like her in that moment. That’s what being an addict does, that was real life. it may have fed into Laurel hate that was already there, but it’s not as if she was likable at that moment.
            Felicity, at least, isn’t on something, and will come around later, possibly with help from Thea, because what is a CW show without angst? Which may be about the time Oliver sees the mistake *he’s* making. Unlike others in this thread (not you), I can see that they are both right and both wrong. About different things. And eventually, things will come back together.
            As for not telling Quentin about Sara… not telling him is going to make it worse. Pretending to be her sister is going to make it worse. Do I understand why she’s doing it? Yes. Do I think it’s okay? No. This is the kind of news you give right away. Do it in a hospital so that it’ll be easier to bring him back if you have to, but the shock is going to be that much worse now that she’s gone to such lengths to keep this from him. Maybe they’re setting it up so Quentin is the one who dies at the end of the season? It’s a possibility.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            I wasn’t pointing to a specific moment when I was referring to Laurel having melodramatic moments.

            I think Felicity is being dogmatic, as opposed to principled, in regard to “don’t work with evil people.” Oliver isn’t going in with his eyes closed, and it’s either risk Malcolm betraying him, or knowing that he will die bloody and lose the people he loves at the hands of Ra’s al Ghul whom he knows he has no chance of beating.

            Regarding Quentin’s storyline, I hope it doesn’t end in his death because of shock from discovering Sara is dead. We’ll never hear the end of it from people who hate Laurel. I’m sure when he discovers what she did, it won’t end well, but I’d rather they not kill him off for many reasons, the most important of which is that he’s a great character played by a fantastic experienced actor. If he is going out, I’d rather he go down swinging like a hero.

          • Briggs says:

            Ah, okay. I was going for the first example that came to mind.
            Again, she does not have all the information. Wait until she does, *then* call her reaction.
            I hope not, either, but any way you slice it, it’s going to end badly. For everyone involved. Maybe he goes all season one on them and arrests everyone on Team Arrow? They *are* involved in illegal activity. It’s extreme, but an option.

  24. Mary says:

    So I have to say this is the first time I disliked Felicity and Oliver at the end of this episode. I understand she is upset and scared but come on… Season 1 and 2 she kept telling Oliver he is not alone it was like a running theme and right now I feel he is alone. She just keeps walking away from him. Slade had said he thought Oliver liked stronger women..They need to let Felicity be that stronger women, stand behind him no matter what. She seems to be crying all the time, There is no crying in your love Oliver. Let Felicity help him win and stay alive. Its been proven that Oliver and Felicity are stronger together then apart. Loved that Lance called out Roy on his trying to hide who he was, funny!

  25. Liz985 says:

    Please tell me Arrow is finally moving on from the Oliver-Felicity thing. So does not work between the characters or actors. Let the story evolve from here in a platonic way.

    • dana says:

      Uh no, they are extremely popular and well received and have great chemistry. And its not like they spend that much time on them, romance isnt arrows main focus

      • Liz985 says:

        Judging from the comments in this thread, they – as a couple – are definitely not universally popular. Chemistry – terrible. Only coupling on the show that made sense and that was worth watching was Oliver and Sarah. And the focus of the show has inexorably moved away from Oliver’s crusade to save his city to the high school antics of Felicity’s crush on Oliver and how that’s supposed to change him for the better.

        • Briggs says:

          You were obviously only focusing on the posts that agreed with you. If, however, you want to go back through and make a tally of how many hold the opnion of ‘no chemistry’ and show me it’s the majority of the posts, I’ll let it go. I’m willing to undertake this task if you are.

          • Liz985 says:

            I’m not going to quantify the comments. It’s obvious qualitatively that there’s a definite split of opinion, not only in this thread but other threads that deal with the show. Ultimately, the writers/producers will decide in what direction they go with all the characters. But their main focus should be maintaining a quality storyline about Oliver Queen and his quest for redemption. All viewers are allowed to have an opinion on that.

          • Briggs says:

            First you say that this thread indicates that people don’t think Oliver and Felicity don’t have chemistry, now you say opinions are split. You can’t have it both ways.

      • Christiana says:

        I actually think olicity is more popular than lauriver. Their fan base on facebook and twitter is quite much. Despite the annoying way the writers have been portraying Felicity, olicity has more chemistry.

    • Susan says:

      I don’t like the way they wrote felicity this week and 2 weeks back but I still like and enjoy olicity.I agree they are popular cos of the chemistry they have.

  26. Norma says:

    For the Olicity shippers. move on, Olicity wont happen anytime soon maybe the writers do not want to go that route just yet so stop complaining. Olicity was much better when they were friends and they care and respect each other, the mometn they stated to have some kind of feelings, it has ruined all thi is the result of that. If Olicity happen it should happen when Oliver is more stable in his life (which that will never hapen I guess) now everything that revolves around him is just danger and risk, how can a relationship survives that? Olicyt m ay happen at the end of this episode if not the next season. But the Olicity thing is getting me tired. Make them just as friends that is better how those 2 work. When love gets in the way it screws many things and this is what is happening. Making the plot dumb and full of drama like a soap opera. Im not watching arrow for Olicity but for the action and otehr type of dramas, If they happen it will happen at some point if aint happen it aint happen and I wont be mad if aint happen.

    You have to see the show with other perspective too.

    I disagree though that on this episode everyone acted like nothing happened with Oliver he returned and things were like normal when they sa him no surpirse at all. I thought they care for Oliver today they acted like if they did nto care for him. Like they were not concerned. Geez is that a team that oliver wants?

  27. Norma says:

    maybe Oliver will ask Malcom to train him because he is planning that Ra gul battle Malcom himselñf eventually and Malcom dies in that way Malcom will pay for all the bad he has done to the people Oliver care and also Oliver is doing he same thing Malcom did to him, push him to battle Ra so Ra kills Malcom this tiem instead of him.

  28. Becky says:

    I don’t like how diggle who is well trained stayed behind while Roy and laurel went out into the field. Everyone is acting out of character. Why would the writers make Felicity say all that to Oliver right after he got back. Its as if the writers are making Felicity unlikeable just to make laurel likeable. I prefer season 2 arrow, the writing for season 3 is just all over the place.

  29. Chris says:

    The Olicity moment broke my heart, but I think she was real strong to say that. It’s not that she’s afraid that she’ll end up dead like Sara. She just sees that even though Oliver loves her, he hasn’t prioritized people that he’s loved. He’ll bend his morals. He’s lied to his family, his friends, cheated on Laurel with her sister, chose Sara over Shadow and she ended up dead. Malcom manipulated Thea to kill Sara, and he’s willing to look past it for a little while. I understand why, but he doesn’t treat the people he loves well. He’s still lying to Thea after everything! She’s involved in the ninja drama. She knows Roy is Arsenal. There’s no reason to keep her in the dark other than the fact that he is his mother’s son.

    My sister didn’t want Felicity with Oliver, because she knows it’ll end horribly. I know they’re not endgame material, but I just wanted to see them together for a little while. But the truth is, he doesn’t deserve Felicity. He still has to grow up to do.

    • Lex says:

      Snaps. I originally went in with saying “I want Oliver and Felicity together… but not now.” He’s on a hero’s journey and he’s smack dab in the middle of it. If you know anything about Joseph Campbell we still have a lot of opportunities for Oliver to grow into a real hero who can manage to do his mission and still balance a personal life. He’s still the Arrow. We’re not at the Green Arrow level yet. He hasn’t opened up to Thea yet! There are still a bunch of flaws to be honed and refined, and Felicity has lessons to learn herself. When it happens, I want it done right more than I want it done now.

  30. hamza says:

    Honestly if Felicity can’t understand the reason why Oliver is seeing Malcolm as a necessary means to an end, then I don’t think she’s the woman for him.
    Her speech was the opposite of logical. It was driven purely by emotion and sentiment, in a way I blame her budding feelings for Ray. She’s finally found an excuse to extricate herself from Oliver and pursue her new romantic interest.
    If she was being logical she’ll know that being trained by Malcolm is never a bad thing, not in a million years. Ra’s is the biggest threat they’ve faced thus far, Malcolm is a small fly Oliver can deal with anytime. You say you love someone, and when that person reveals themselves to you, you cut tail and run. Is that love or infatuation? No like there’s a difference. But Felicity’s actions have convinced me what she feels/felt for Oliver is no more than school girl crush.

  31. Jeff says:

    Alright now, Roy Haper was never the Red Hood. That was Jason Todd and I think the Joker before he was the Joker. Someone can correct me on that Batman continuity but I know my Teen Titans and Roy was Speedy and then Arsenal and then The Red Arrow and then Arsenal again when his daughter was killed by Prometheus.

  32. Karen says:

    I think this is all a bunch of bull crap! Because at the very moment Oliver returns, here goes the writers trying to kill off Olicity already! To be honest, if it wasn’t for this run around, and boring relationship, which all Olicity haters describe it as, between Oliver and Felicity, is the only reason why I watch the show! All the Olicity haters keep rambling on, saying Oliver and Felicity don’t have a chance! Why not? Is it because Felicity is like really genius smart, kind of timid, rambles on when she talks, a goody two shoes…………………..? Felicity is, what the nerdy girl? Then we have Oliver as this crime fighting machine, with six pack abs hottie? People are always complaining over and over about how long this has been going on between Felicity and Oliver! Well you know what? Who cares! Tell me one show that hasn’t lingered on, and on with a relationship between a couple? Let’s see, we have the tv series Bones! My gosh, that relationship lingered on and on it seemed like forever! Nothing happened between Seely Booth and Dr. Brennan, not until the sixth season! Now that is what you call a boring, and ridiculously lingered out relationship for a couple on a TV series! There’s Hart Of Dixie, The Vampire Diaries, The Flash, and…………………! I could keep on naming more of those kind of shows, if my hand wasn’t about to give out! All these shows has had some very long, lingering, and boring nonrelationship couples! So people need to quit stomping all over the love chemistry of Olicity! I’m going to keep hoping that Oliver will soon break down enough to fight for Felicity’s love forever! Go Olicity! Go! Go! Not dead yet! LOL!

    • hamza says:

      I can also name a few shows that had none of that drawn out romance filled with angst and uncertainty. Alias, Nikita; I think the writers of Nikita made it very clear early on that they would end up together, there was no pining from afar. Rizzoli and Isles, 24, prison break. And that’s the few I can think of right now.

  33. Harvey says:

    Not as good as expected! I mean an episode where Oliver is returning, should be about him, more than Merlyn, though I understand why they had to make it more about Merlyn, but still, Oliver’s return was too ordinary. I mean, he wasn’t the guy that saved the city, Merlyn was, technically. Then him meeting everyone should have been bigger, like what happened, Laurel didn’t even come. Diggle might not be as good of a fighter as Merlyn, or Oliver grade, but even the boxer that trained Laurel shouldn’t have been this good, I mean, Diggle barely did anything to Brick, while that guy made him bleed, and at least a little fight out of Brick would have been better, actually a little fight from Oliver would have been good too. End was good, with what Felicity said, and Oliver asking Merlyn for training, both were good, only even then, Oliver not bringing up killing Sarah, but only turning Thea into a killer, and that also like it wasn’t that big of a deal, wasn’t good. Like the line a lot, the best thing about the ep, ”Only the student has hope of defeating the master”.
    And Laurel becoming Canary isn’t good, I mean, it just doesn’t add up. League Of Assassins, Oliver, all the fighters are trained, it was a catch them I’ll cook em thing, and now it just isn’t that right.

  34. donholley77 says:

    I loved that we got to learn more about Malcom! I’m becoming a John Barrowman fan!

  35. Lauren says:

    I am 100% positive that Lance knows that Oliver is Arrow. He simply decided that it was easier to act otherwise. He would hate carrying that secret. Roy isn’t such a big deal. Just saying that if he put Roy together, he figured out Oliver a while ago.

  36. Pat says:

    Great episode and it did not disappoint me. So many things are running through my head as to how they will end. When Quenten finds out about Sara and he will eventually find out who killed her, I am not sure how he will be able to handle this especially with his heart condition. Thea, wow, how will she handle what her father did to her in having her kill Sara? Felicity and Oliver well they were both right. She is afraid to love him because he wants to hook up with Malcolm and she does not want to end up dead like Sara and he has to hook up with Malcolm in order to learn how to defeat Ra’s a Gaul. So I do see both of their points of view. So many storylines are ahead and I cannot wait to see them play out.

  37. debbie says:

    This is a city where nothing is black n white, oliver is not oblivious to the things malcolm has done, this is him trying to save pple he cares about wc is reasonable n felicity might come come to reason with that when she’s done bn pissed n oliver as we all know won’t push.

  38. termy says:

    So you have highly trained military operative john diggle. Then you have laurel, who boxed twice in a gym. Who do you want covering your back? The way they are handling laurel is killing the show for me.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      She boxed more than twice, and much of what she’s doing is using Sara’s reputation.

      • Steph says:

        Yes, and poorly using it at that.
        I cringe seeing her “fight”. Anyone with eyeballs can take one look at her and see she’s not Sara (i.e. Sin). If I were a bad guy, I’d laugh. I hate Laurel.

        • Rob Watkins says:

          She’s not as refined, but she can clearly handle herself pretty well. You would laugh, but then end up on the ground after a punch to the face. How many of those people actually saw Sara before? It’s all about reputation.

          • Lex says:

            And using Sara’s reputation says what about Laurel ? That she thinks impersonating her sister is a good thing? That people won’t eventually catch on?

          • Rob Watkins says:

            That she’s willing to use a useful weapon. Some might catch on, but thus far she’s been able to go nearly a month as the Canary and even her father is fooled. The team needed help and was close to disbanding.

  39. buckycore says:

    This got to the core of what makes Arrow so great. Sadness…loss. Batman was always grim. Arrow is more sad. People who mean well, but don’t always make the right choices or who start off resilient end up with something taken away from them. Felicity’s reaction and the less than warm reception set the perfect tone for what is to come. Ollie is about to become twice as feirce and looking back into the dark abyss when he first became the vigilante in season one

  40. Amber2 says:

    EBR was awesome – again. Felicity is so the moral compass of this show and is the one who sees the truth when everyone else is blinded by lies. Great stuff. I can’t wait to see where the writers take Olicity. Oliver and Felicity just eat up the screen together – even while they break our hearts. Love this stuff!

  41. Sasha says:

    To me it would have made more sense if Felicity heard him out then reacted to news (with that woman you love speech)

    But shes didn’t wait for an explanation.

    I mean i have a feeling he’ll explain everything later on and she’ll understand but by then she’ll be too much wrapped up in Ray.

    Did you see Emily and Brandon on the set of the flash?

    They’re going over there….both of them.


    I know a lot of people like Ray but he’s still Creepy McCreeperson for me.

    If they’re gonna give her a love interest at least let it be Barry for a couple Eps no? Or someone new at least

  42. Tobias says:

    I for one can’t wait for the end of Olicity. Too “soapy” for me. I hope the writers end Olicity and get Dinah and Oliver back together. I watch this show because I am a Green Arrow fan and in the comics Oliver loves Dinah NOT Felicity.

  43. DonnaMama says:

    Ollie needs to come clean with Thea as well. She was trained by Merlyn with the swords as well. Wonder if all that will come out once Malcom starts training Oliver, hell he can spar with his own sister? He did get a sample of it a few episodes back (when she jumped over the balcony) – thea is very good with the swords. Thea vs Tatsu or training

  44. brenna says:

    I was kind of torn on this episode. Merlyn is much more compelling as a cold calculating devious bad guy, so not sure where his story is going. Couldn’t believe Roy was all about Merlyn saved Thea and seemed to ignore the part about his friends dying in the Undertaking as well as how he killed Sara, and used Thea and Oliver for his own personal gain. I’m already getting a little tired of Laurel/Black Canery. Do not like her attitude in the Arrow cave. I think she would be much better as a recurring character. Not looking forward to the heavy Canery episode next week. I understand where Oliver is coming from, but I also completely see how Felicity feels. The last Olicity scene was so well acted and was completely depressing. EBR and SA were wonderful. However, couldn’t they enjoy just a moment of happiness before it was taken away. I really dislike love triangles and the writers are just setting up Ray as the one who is “better” for Felicity. I’m missing the good times of Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle with the funny lines, caring for each other, and taking down the bad guys. I’m not going anywhere, gotta see how it all plays out. Olicity still the best!!

  45. brenna says:

    Oh, and by the way Matt, you are correct. As soon as Tatsu said Oliver would lose what is most precious to him, I knew that would be Felicity, sadly.

  46. Dj says:

    Quentin must have some type of plausible deniability going on with Oliver. He knows Sara was the Canary, Roy is Arsenal and Felicity works with them. He has to it’s Oliver.

    I wished Tatsu would have come back to Starling City with Oliver.

    I like the Bludhaven excuse just because The producers really want to use Nightwing.

  47. DonnaMama says:

    How about it was “Sin” that ended up telling Captain Lance that it wasn’t Sara. This is going to be interesting, so many stories, loving it!!!! Roy had a chance to tell her, but he blew it off. Now who is going to tell Laurel who killed Sara or even Thea for that matter.

    • Annacat says:

      I totally agree!!! I liked this episode (but have to confess, i forwarded through the olicity thing at the end)
      But who is going to tell Laurel/Thea who killed Sara and Merlyn??! When the team was weighing up if they should side/use Merlyn on Brick, I kept thinking “Tell Laurel what he has done and then ask her to decide, with all the facts!” Same thing re Roy and Thea talking about Merlyn. Merlyn used Thea without her consent or knowledge to kill someone she knows and grew up with to protect himself. She clearly doesn’t agree with killing, as shown by her duel with Merlyn so he has desecrated part of her.

  48. WO says:

    Horrible way to derail the Oliver/Felicity line… she is his humanity… and with that comes the heart. To continue to disregard his need for such is a stain on what has been good writing from day 1. They don’t have to be happily ever after and cartoon-y, but to allow it evolve into something more grounding for him would add depth to the show. We all know that Arrow and Canary end up together… but right now, the right path to pursue is this tug of war dynamic between Oliver and Felicity.

    Also… he sure got from a chicken truck to dressed up and in the battle awful quick. Glad they didn’t drag his absence on for much longer, but this episode was a hurried, muddled mess.

  49. derek117 says:

    I agree with Felicity that Oliver is once again making a mistake. And IMO after so many mistakes, he’s at risk of losing his SuperHero badge.

    Oliver is choosing to see Ra’s as a greater threat than Malcolm, which I believe is very questionable. Ra’s commands a band of international assassins, who dish out justice without the legal authority to do so. Whereas, Malcolm is a murderer of hundreds, a corruptor of his own daughter, murderer of Oliver’s once beloved, and responsible for the shipwreck that killed his father. This shouldn’t be a tough decision for Oliver.

    Lastly, as we were reminded in the last StarTrek movie, the comment “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is attributed to a middle eastern prince who was later decapitated by his own followers. This should be a sobering thought for Oliver as he makes his alliance with Malcolm.

    • Rob Watkins says:

      Ra’s is a bigger immediate threat than Malcolm. Ra’s has also murdered a lot of people, so I’m not sure that your point about Malcolm being worse holds much water. Oliver isn’t going into this with blinders on. He knows who Malcolm is, but he has his life, Thea’s, and Starling City to think about when Ra’s discovers Oliver is alive.