Arrow Recap: Tea and Zero Sympathy

Arrow Thea Merlyn

The women of Arrow were in a punchy mood this Wednesday, as we saw the lengths to which Malcolm went “temper” his daughter and Laurel got a bit overzealous in doing right by dead Sara’s leather jacket.

As Oliver and Roy (and Diggle, there on A.R.G.U.S.-related business) ventured to the South American island of Corto Maltese to track down Thea aka “Mia,” in flashback we witnessed how that season-ending father/daughter limo conversation went down, with Thea anxious to never “feel this pain again… to hurt or be hurt ever again.”

To that end, Malcolm invites Thea to choose any destination, at which he begins to toughen her up — first, with a bit of scalding wax and the mantra “Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.” But later, Malcolm realizes that he must treat Thea as a student and not as kin, so he begins beating the tar out of her. When Thea shows she’s got some fight in her, he declares: “Now we can begin.”

In the here and now, Oliver and Roy take turns catching up with Thea, who insists she is “never” returning to Starling City. (Roy, bless him, takes the news pretty well, and dare I say even stung his ex a bit with his “acceptance” of their break-up, as much as his secrets had a hand in it.)

But Oliver believes it’s time for Thea to know the truth behind the secrets he has been keeping, and in a final heart-to-heart, he lays out a couple of them — the headline being that Robert Queen killed himself after reaching a lifeboat with Oliver. And with that seed planted, Oliver drives a point home like a freshly sharpened arrow: “Mom and Dad made sacrifices so that we could live, but if we’re not together, we’re not really alive” (or poignant words to that effect).

And as that seeps in, Thea tells Mr. Miagi Ra’s Malcolm that she wants to go home — and then “wins” a duel with Dad to earn his permission. But upon meeting up with Oliver & Co. at the airport, Thea gets a passerby’s hot coffee spilled on her, yet she doesn’t even flinch. Yes, Roy, something other than her hair is different about Thea.

Elsewhere in the hour, Laurel crosses Arrow Sara Diespaths with boxer/gym owner Ted Grant, whose trainee was involved in a break-in. Upon meeting Ms. Lance, Ted senses she has some rage within her to “work off.” So he, unlike, Roy, gets points for perception. Because later, Laurel “suits up” in black this and that to take a bat to the abusive boyfriend of a girl she met in AA — only to have the galoot strike back, landing her in the hospital and on the receiving end of a scolding from Quentin. “Promise me you’ll never do anything like this again,” he says, warding her off of following Sara’s path. But as Laurel subsequently tells Oliver, Sara’s jacket makes her “want to help people,” and that Sara feels alive again when she does so. When Oliver refuses to train her to be something more/something else, Laurel takes Ted Grant up on his offer.

And last but not least, Felicity settled into her new job working for Ray Palmer at QC, where she now has her own assistant to fetch coffee and what not. Which proved helpful, seeing as her first day is riddled with 911s from both Diggle and Laurel (“I need you to help me find someone by Googling his phone or something”). Felicity is tasked with (and ably pulls off) salvaging files from a server found at the blown-up applied sciences division, and after she takes off to visit Barry Allen in Central City, Ray gets a mischievous look while scanning the schematics for assorted “advanced weapons.”

Oh, and at the very, very end, Nyssa al-Ghul crashes the Arrowcave, looking for her lovah Sara!

ARROW POINTS:

* Why do I suddenly have a very bad feeling about the Diggle/Lyla relationship? Given the bug put in his ear by A.R.G.U.S.-distrusting Shaw, and Lyla noting how they all do whatever Waller says, this can’t end well.

* Nice callback to Armitage, the arms dealer from Season 2, Episode 12.

* Was Ray trolling the “Sara is alive!” theorists by referring to Felicity’s work as a “digital Lazarus“?

* “Are we favor friends now? Are we friends?” Good question!

What did you think of “Corto Maltese”?

 

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169 Comments
  1. aunni says:

    felicity… thank you for pointing out girl.

    • anna says:

      Felicity rocks, always

    • Actually that was really rude to say someone who asking for a simple favor to help someone out, which is technically Felicity’s role on the show.

      • Briggs says:

        Felicity has no inner voice. I give you the Freudian slips she has around Oliver. It was another one of her train-of-thought responses that happen under stress (which she *was* under at the time) so I don’t think she meant it to be rude.

      • kath says:

        I think what was really rude was Laurel calling Felicity at work, when she’s in a meeting with her new boss, to get some information that Laurel could have got on her own. Felicity doesn’t work for Laurel, she works for Ray Palmer and with Oliver. It didn’t even occur to Laurel that Felicity could be at work, the thing that pays her bills.
        +
        Laurel works for the DA’s office. She had the resources to get that information from the people who are paid to get it for her. Or she could have looked it up herself.
        +
        It was bad enough that Diggle called Felicity for help but at least in Diggle’s case, he had worked with her for 2 years and they were friends, it was Team Arrow business, it was a matter of life or death (Lyla’s and Sara’s), and he didn’t have another way to get the information. None of those apply in Laurel’s case. She treated Felicity like her servant, again.
        I’m glad Felicity called her out on it.

        • Frost says:

          Yeah cause it’s not like Oliver or Diggle were doing the same right? Oh wait they were. countless times in past seasons as well. Also Felicity doesn’t work for Oliver Queen she volunteers for him for their mission. That’s not technically work. But regardless your excuse is kind of nonsensical and it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

          What’s the difference between laurel asked her for a favor and Diggle or Oliver asking Felicity for a favor?

          In fact your reason for Diggle or anyone else asking her a favor is really just at best a bias reason. Didn’t Laurel team up with team arrow last season as well? Didnt she admit to working with oliver THIS season? Did you forget those points or something? How does this NOT apply to Laurel’s case? Does she NOT work with them as well? And wasn’t team arrow involved in something that didn’t involve her at that time? If you consider that ” treating her life a servant” then for the past two years Oliver and Team arrow has been treating Felicity like a slave.

          It’s one thing to LIKE a character. It’s another to just be completely bias.

          And she didn’t call her out on it. I don’t know where you got that from.

          • Briggs says:

            I’m glad Felicity took time off to go to Central City. Not only does she get to see Barry but she doesn’t have work interrupting work while a very interested boss watches. Not that she’ll get a lot of rest, if the Flash promo is anything to go by, but still.

          • Frost says:

            The point I am trying to make is that her part in team arrow is handling the tech side. And she chose to work with Oliver and the team to make a difference. But with that choice comes responsibilities and sacrifices. She chose that route and this comes with it.

            But it wasn’t “treating her like a servant” as some people put it. By that logic then everyone on team arrow treats her like a servant.

            And personally she’s not even my favorite female character. Sara was. But I don’t cross out her sister because the loud voices on the internet get butt hurt lol.

          • kath says:

            Laurel worked with Oliver last season when she brought him the information on Blood. The one time she saw Felicity and Diggle in the foundry, she asked them to leave so she could tell Oliver about Blood in private even though there was no reason for Diggle and Felicity not to know. She made Diggle and Felicity leave so no, I don’t think she worked with them last season. This season, every single thing Laurel said to Felicity last episode was an order.

            I did say that Diggle shouldn’t have called her either. But in Diggle’s case, 1. it was a matter of keeping Lyla and his daughter safe and 2. they were friends and had worked together for 2 years. That’s two differences, their previous relationship and it being life or death for Diggle and a personal vendetta for Laurel.

            The third difference is that Felicity was the only way Diggle could get that information. Laurel could have got it from someone in her office because she works for the DA and has staff to do that sort of thing.
            I thought Felicity called her out on it when she asked since when were they “favor friends” or even friends, but if you didn’t see it that way, okay.

          • Frost says:

            @Kath

            Ok so? She asked them to leave for privacy because she wanted to give her a friend a pep talk. I don’t see what the big deal is. Are you saying that Felicity and Oliver never had private talks or other people left to give other people privacy for certain reasons? That’s such an isifnifcant argument on your end. It really doesn’t make any sense to bring that up. And they didn’t even mind because they understood so your reasoning doesn’t add up. As far as not working with them last season then you didn’t pay attention to the last few episodes of season 2 where she did play a role. She also helped team arrow out in the birds of prey episode so that’s also untrue on your end. Or you didn’t pay attention. Either way you’re wrong.
            Also how was her asking Felecity for a favor any differnt than Oliver or Diggle asking for that? Again you’re just cherry picking at best.

            No one of your criteria was that he was working with team arrow so you gave that as some excuse. Well now she’s working team arrow so that applies to her as well. And like I said again are you saying diggle didn’t have other contacts to call? An ex military solider does not have nother contacts in his extensive career and that felicity was his ONLY opinion? The years of how long people work together is insginficant because Laurel is now part of Team Arrow so she can ask people OF team arrow for favors especially if they are part of the mission to change how things are in a crime ridden city. It wasn’t just a personal vendetta for Laurel. If it was she wouldn’t have gone after that abusive boy friend this past episode. Again you are wrong.

            Really? How was Felicity the ONLY way Diggle could get that information? Working for a top military team he has NO other contact? Even though his boss has multiple contacts and resources at his disposal? Sorry that’s not a good reason on your end because it’s not true. He could’ve called someone else because military veterans like Diggle has other sources. So that’s not a good reason either.
            And as for the whole life or death thing, last I checked and abbusive boyfriend could kill their girlfriend so that can easily fall under your category as well.
            This is a cherry picking argument on your end and I’m sorry to say it’s very one sided. If you feel this way then it’s up to you but your reasons are supported by you completely ignoring key things that happened in the series.

        • Joe Chief says:

          “I think what was really rude was Laurel calling Felicity at work, when she’s in a meeting with her new boss, to get some information that Laurel could have got on her own. ”

          -How was it rude? Felicity didn’t seem to mind. She even helped her out and gave her the info she needed. So how was it rude when Felicity didn’t even read into it? It looks like you’re just seeing things that aren’t there.

          “Felicity doesn’t work for Laurel, she works for Ray Palmer and with Oliver. ”
          No she doesn’t. At least not for Oliver. She works for Ray Palmer but that’s about it.

          -She’s not employed by Oliver Queen anymore so she doesn’t work for Oliver Queen. She volunteers FOR Oliver and there are many examples where Oliver called her out of the blue for something he needed. Now you’re just making up lame excuses.

          “It didn’t even occur to Laurel that Felicity could be at work, the thing that pays her bills.”

          -Cause Oliver Queen or Diggle never interupted her while she was at work right? I mean it’s not like Oliver called her up while she was working at a print shop in the first episode this season lol. Oh wait he did.

          “Laurel works for the DA’s office. She had the resources to get that information from the people who are paid to get it for her. Or she could have looked it up herself.”

          -She could but she didn’t. And Diggle could’ve asked someone else but he didn’t. He asked Felicity because she works with team arrow. Just like Laurel and Diggle do. It’s called team work. Not servitude which is what you’re thinking of.

          “It was bad enough that Diggle called Felicity for help but at least in Diggle’s case, he had worked with her for 2 years and they were friends, it was Team Arrow business,”

          -Yes a team that Laurel Lance seems to be a part of now. Or at least she’s working with them. She said it herself “you catch the bad guys I put them away.” So what she was asking for seems like it falls under your criteria.
          ” it was a matter of life or death (Lyla’s and Sara’s), and he didn’t have another way to get the information. ”
          -So Diggle didn’t have military contacts that he could’ve gotten that info from? Oliver didn’t have expenses that he could’ve used? I mean it’s not like he still has contacts or anything right? You seem to be ignoring key things here. If you’re going to present a case, present everything. Don’t just leave things out for the hell of it.

          “None of those apply in Laurel’s case.”
          -Yes it does. She works with team arrow. You just said it yourself that this is one of those cases. So that applies to her. By your own words.

          “She treated Felicity like her servant, again.”
          -No she didn’t. She treated her like the other people on team arrow treated her. As part of the team who needed her help. She even said “Felicity I need your help.” that’s not treating her like a servant. That’s asking for help. You are confused.

          “I’m glad Felicity called her out on it.”
          -Again no she didn’t. In fact this idea of servitude you have isn’t very accurate at all.

          • kath says:

            -it seemed like Felicity minded very much that Laurel called her at work. But it looks like she got Laurel the information in the end. She’s a nice person
            – I said that Felicity works for Ray Palmer. She chooses to continue helping Oliver with The List. But that doesn’t automatically include helping Laurel when she decides she’s going to beat up some guy because she’s angry about her sister dying. The targets Team Arrow goes after are agreed on by the team. This was Laurel doing her own thing and I don’t think Felicity owes it to her to help *especially* since Laurel could have got the information from her own staff.
            – Diggle couldn’t have got that information from elsewhere because he tried through ARGUS and got shut out. He’s been out of the military for at least 4 years now. If he had any military contacts left, it would have taken too long to reach them and get them to give him the information.
            – Laurel could easily have got the information from her office. Why didn’t she go there instead of asking Felicity for a favour? Oliver and Diggle ask Felicity for help when they can’t get the answers any other way. For Laurel, using Felicity was a convenience but it caused problems for Felicity.
            – I disagree that Laurel is part of Team Arrow at this point. Last week, Team Arrow was helping to try to catch Sara’s killer, as they should. But other than telling Oliver (Oliver, not Team Arrow) that Blood knew Slade, what has Laurel done for Team Arrow yet?

          • Joe Chief says:

            “-it seemed like Felicity minded very much that Laurel called her at work. But it looks like she got Laurel the information in the end. She’s a nice person”
            What gave you the impression that she minded that Laurel called her at work? Other people on team arrow called her at work before and she didn’t pay too much to that. And if she minded then she wouldn’t have given her that info in the first place. There’s no indication that she minded. And even if she didn’t she really didn’t think much to it because Laurel’s missions is on par with their mission.

            “– I said that Felicity works for Ray Palmer. She chooses to continue helping Oliver with The List. But that doesn’t automatically include helping Laurel when she decides she’s going to beat up some guy because she’s angry about her sister dying.”
            Why not? She’s part of team arrow now so that means she’s part of Felicity’s team. So I don’t see how other people get a pass at calling Felicity at work when Laurel doesn’t. That’s selective on your end. Also she didn’t beat up some guy because she was angry about her sister dying. She wanted to beat up some guy because he’s a woman beating abusive pile of dirt. Her sister dying is more or a less a catylist for her to do good.
            In this case get justice on a serial woman beater. Last I checked that also falls under their team criterior.

            “The targets Team Arrow goes after are agreed on by the team. This was Laurel doing her own thing and I don’t think Felicity owes it to her to help *especially* since Laurel could have got the information from her own staff.”
            In that case this was one of the “targets” that was agreed by the team. At least by felicity who gave Laurel the info. If she didn’t “agree” on it then she wouldn’t have given that info to her. But there’s no rule saying that team arrow can’t go after multiple targets for different reasons. They go after multiple people all the time so this theory of yours is just moot.
            And this isn’t about owing anyone anything. She voluntarily gave Laurel info on a woman beater. She wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for a good cause. You know since she works with team arrow. The both of them do. And to suggest that other members of team arrow have NO other sources other felicity is just a silly concept on your end.

            “– Diggle couldn’t have got that information from elsewhere because he tried through ARGUS and got shut out. He’s been out of the military for at least 4 years now.”
            It doesn’t matter how long someone’s been out of the military. You still have contacts within your group of team members you work with. To suggest that Felicity smoak is the be all end all list of all resoruces is dumb. That’s what it is dumb. How could he not get it out from other people? Being in the military for as long as he’s been in there I’m sure he must have made a bunch of contacts. And as frost pointed out his boss has an endless supply of people working for her so your excuse that he couldn’t have gotten the info elsewhere doesn’t add up. Also I can say that Laurel couldn’t have gotten it anywhere else because they mention in the episode that the guy she was after moves around a lot and what not. They explained why the police couldn’t after the guy in the episode so in a way Laurel couldn’t have gotten it from anywhere else. That can easily be applied to eher.

            “If he had any military contacts left, it would have taken too long to reach them and get them to give him the information.”
            Again his boss, the head runner of an elite military opperation has no other means or sources to get to? I call BS on this argument of yours. If that was the case then he wouldn’t be working for this military organization if their opperation is equivalent to the management of an arby’s sandwich shop.
            “– Laurel could easily have got the information from her office. Why didn’t she go there instead of asking Felicity for a favour?”
            Who cares why she didn’t go there? She’s part of team arrow now. Or at least she’s working with them like she said in the beggining of this season’s episode so who cares why she didn’t go to her office? I would expect someone working with a team of vigilantes to call up one of the members for a favor. I don’t get your reasoning your just finding petty reasons not to like a character. And to be quite honest they’re not good or well thought out reasons.
            “Oliver and Diggle ask Felicity for help when they can’t get the answers any other way. For Laurel, using Felicity was a convenience but it caused problems for Felicity.”
            Ok I can say the same thing to you then. For Diggle, using felicity was a convenience but it caused problems for felicity. But Laurel ask Felicity for help when she couldn’t get answers any other way. And by your logic I can say she couldn’t because of this guy’s slipper background. See? I can cherry pick and make selective arguments that are clearly bias and don’t add up.
            And are you saying Felicty isn’t the token hacker girl used to make life easier for team arrow? That neither of them called her up even though they could’ve other people for information? Oliver queen especially? A billionare play boy who can buy his resources any time? or Diggle who spent his entire life in the military and is now working for someone with and endless supply of resources and a boss that pretty much has the entire military in her smart phone? That the only way that they could function in life is to call on a nerd blonde tech that rambles? Now you’re just being one sided.

            “– I disagree that Laurel is part of Team Arrow at this point. Last week, Team Arrow was helping to try to catch Sara’s killer, as they should.”
            Well then you’re not paying attention to the same show we’re watching. She said, and I quote “you catch them, I put them away” meaning she’s part of team arrow. Or at the least very least working with them to help their cause. Either way she has access to the resources they do since they are willingly working with her. So you disagree all you want but if the story says its true then it looks like you’re wrong.
            “But other than telling Oliver (Oliver, not Team Arrow) that Blood knew Slade, what has Laurel done for Team Arrow yet?”
            You mean other than help them catch Huntress last season? Find info in the person that killed sara? Getting info on Blood last season during that episode she lost her job, then there was the episode where she even teamed up with her sister and Oliver during a mission on the second to last season finale?
            You mean those things? You’re very forgetful.

          • Joe Chief says:

            @Kath

            “-it seemed like Felicity minded very much that Laurel called her at work. But it looks like she got Laurel the information in the end. She’s a nice person”
            What gave you the impression that she minded that Laurel called her at work? Other people on team arrow called her at work before and she didn’t pay too much to that. And if she minded then she wouldn’t have given her that info in the first place. There’s no indication that she minded. And even if she didn’t she really didn’t think much to it because Laurel’s missions is on par with their mission.

            “– I said that Felicity works for Ray Palmer. She chooses to continue helping Oliver with The List. But that doesn’t automatically include helping Laurel when she decides she’s going to beat up some guy because she’s angry about her sister dying.”
            Why not? She’s part of team arrow now so that means she’s part of Felicity’s team. So I don’t see how other people get a pass at calling Felicity at work when Laurel doesn’t. That’s selective on your end. Also she didn’t beat up some guy because she was angry about her sister dying. She wanted to beat up some guy because he’s a woman beating abusive pile of dirt. Her sister dying is more or a less a catylist for her to do good.
            In this case get justice on a serial woman beater. Last I checked that also falls under their team criterior.

            “The targets Team Arrow goes after are agreed on by the team. This was Laurel doing her own thing and I don’t think Felicity owes it to her to help *especially* since Laurel could have got the information from her own staff.”
            In that case this was one of the “targets” that was agreed by the team. At least by felicity who gave Laurel the info. If she didn’t “agree” on it then she wouldn’t have given that info to her. But there’s no rule saying that team arrow can’t go after multiple targets for different reasons. They go after multiple people all the time so this theory of yours is just moot.
            And this isn’t about owing anyone anything. She voluntarily gave Laurel info on a woman beater. She wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for a good cause. You know since she works with team arrow. The both of them do. And to suggest that other members of team arrow have NO other sources other felicity is just a silly concept on your end.

            “– Diggle couldn’t have got that information from elsewhere because he tried through ARGUS and got shut out. He’s been out of the military for at least 4 years now.”
            It doesn’t matter how long someone’s been out of the military. You still have contacts within your group of team members you work with. To suggest that Felicity smoak is the be all end all list of all resoruces is dumb. That’s what it is dumb. How could he not get it out from other people? Being in the military for as long as he’s been in there I’m sure he must have made a bunch of contacts. And as frost pointed out his boss has an endless supply of people working for her so your excuse that he couldn’t have gotten the info elsewhere doesn’t add up. Also I can say that Laurel couldn’t have gotten it anywhere else because they mention in the episode that the guy she was after moves around a lot and what not. They explained why the police couldn’t after the guy in the episode so in a way Laurel couldn’t have gotten it from anywhere else. That can easily be applied to eher.

            “If he had any military contacts left, it would have taken too long to reach them and get them to give him the information.”
            Again his boss, the head runner of an elite military opperation has no other means or sources to get to? I call BS on this argument of yours. If that was the case then he wouldn’t be working for this military organization if their opperation is equivalent to the management of an arby’s sandwich shop.
            “– Laurel could easily have got the information from her office. Why didn’t she go there instead of asking Felicity for a favour?”
            Who cares why she didn’t go there? She’s part of team arrow now. Or at least she’s working with them like she said in the beggining of this season’s episode so who cares why she didn’t go to her office? I would expect someone working with a team of vigilantes to call up one of the members for a favor. I don’t get your reasoning your just finding petty reasons not to like a character. And to be quite honest they’re not good or well thought out reasons.
            “Oliver and Diggle ask Felicity for help when they can’t get the answers any other way. For Laurel, using Felicity was a convenience but it caused problems for Felicity.”
            Ok I can say the same thing to you then. For Diggle, using felicity was a convenience but it caused problems for felicity. But Laurel ask Felicity for help when she couldn’t get answers any other way. And by your logic I can say she couldn’t because of this guy’s slipper background. See? I can cherry pick and make selective arguments that are clearly bias and don’t add up.
            And are you saying Felicty isn’t the token hacker girl used to make life easier for team arrow? That neither of them called her up even though they could’ve other people for information? Oliver queen especially? A billionare play boy who can buy his resources any time? or Diggle who spent his entire life in the military and is now working for someone with and endless supply of resources and a boss that pretty much has the entire military in her smart phone? That the only way that they could function in life is to call on a nerd blonde tech that rambles? Now you’re just being one sided.

            “– I disagree that Laurel is part of Team Arrow at this point. Last week, Team Arrow was helping to try to catch Sara’s killer, as they should.”
            Well then you’re not paying attention to the same show we’re watching. She said, and I quote “you catch them, I put them away” meaning she’s part of team arrow. Or at the least very least working with them to help their cause. Either way she has access to the resources they do since they are willingly working with her. So you disagree all you want but if the story says its true then it looks like you’re wrong.
            “But other than telling Oliver (Oliver, not Team Arrow) that Blood knew Slade, what has Laurel done for Team Arrow yet?”
            You mean other than help them catch Huntress last season? Find info in the person that killed sara? Getting info on Blood last season during that episode she lost her job, then there was the episode where she even teamed up with her sister and Oliver during a mission on the second to last season finale?
            You mean those things? You’re very forgetful.

          • Claire says:

            I’m replying here because it is the only place I can. I will simply say that both AK and MG (the EPs) have recently tweeted and stated in interviews, that Team Arrow is a—and I quote AK—”Quartet” ==> Oliver, Diggle, Felicity and Roy. That was an interview having to do with Roy on the team.

          • Frost says:

            @Claire It doesn’t matter what AK and MG tweet out. It doesn’t change the fact that Laurel Lance is working with Team Arrow now. Which she is. She even says “You catch them, I put them away” so she is a big player when it comes to team arrow’s operation. I even said she’s working with them if not PART of said team. So by that logic I would expect Laurel to call in for a favor.

            Either way it’s not servitude is what I’m getting at.

          • Joe Chief says:

            Claire I could care less what AK and MG tweet out. What they tweet and what’s clearly ON the show are two different things. If they said Roy was a french ballerina and on the show he’s something else then what they tweet is irrelevant. But the facts are Laurel Lance was working team arrow this season. She even stated that she was in helping them bring sara’s killer to justice. Even in the next episode it seems like she plays a big part with team arrow. So yes she IS working with team arrow. Being part of the team? That’s debatable but certainly a team player.
            She wouldn’t be on the main cover if she had no affiliation with team arrow what so ever.
            So what the EP’s tweet is irrelevant.

        • SmoakAndArrows says:

          I’m not a huge Laurel fan either but your recent explanation couldn’t have been further from the target. It’s one thing to not like a character but to lie about a scenario like you did is just plain silly.

          • kath says:

            I don’t understand.
            What part did you think was a lie? That Laurel called Felicity at work and didn’t ask if this was a time she could talk? Or that Laurel could use the DA’s office resources to get the information for herself?

          • SmoakAndArrows says:

            @Kath
            What’s not to understand?
            Your decepetive and onesided with your argument. Complainging about Laurel calling felicity at work is the most petty thing you can bring up because other members called her up at work before. Regardless of her connections at the DA’s office she decided to call felicity because she needed her help and felicity was more than willing to give it to her.
            You’re just trying to twist it around in some bias way to make a character look bad when in all honesty anyone reading your post can see you’re just being bias here.

        • Frost says:

          Ok so? She asked them to leave for privacy because she wanted to give her a friend a pep talk. I don’t see what the big deal is. Are you saying that Felicity and Oliver never had private talks or other people left to give other people privacy for certain reasons? That’s such an isifnifcant argument on your end. It really doesn’t make any sense to bring that up. And they didn’t even mind because they understood so your reasoning doesn’t add up. As far as not working with them last season then you didn’t pay attention to the last few episodes of season 2 where she did play a role. She also helped team arrow out in the birds of prey episode so that’s also untrue on your end. Or you didn’t pay attention. Either way you’re wrong.
          Also how was her asking Felecity for a favor any differnt than Oliver or Diggle asking for that? Again you’re just cherry picking at best.

          No one of your criteria was that he was working with team arrow so you gave that as some excuse. Well now she’s working team arrow so that applies to her as well. And like I said again are you saying diggle didn’t have other contacts to call? An ex military solider does not have nother contacts in his extensive career and that felicity was his ONLY opinion? The years of how long people work together is insginficant because Laurel is now part of Team Arrow so she can ask people OF team arrow for favors especially if they are part of the mission to change how things are in a crime ridden city. It wasn’t just a personal vendetta for Laurel. If it was she wouldn’t have gone after that abusive boy friend this past episode. Again you are wrong.

          Really? How was Felicity the ONLY way Diggle could get that information? Working for a top military team he has NO other contact? Even though his boss has multiple contacts and resources at his disposal? Sorry that’s not a good reason on your end because it’s not true. He could’ve called someone else because military veterans like Diggle has other sources. So that’s not a good reason either.
          And as for the whole life or death thing, last I checked and abbusive boyfriend could kill their girlfriend so that can easily fall under your category as well.
          This is a cherry picking argument on your end and I’m sorry to say it’s very one sided. If you feel this way then it’s up to you but your reasons are supported by you completely ignoring key things that happened in the series.

        • Joe Chief says:

          “-it seemed like Felicity minded very much that Laurel called her at work. But it looks like she got Laurel the information in the end. She’s a nice person”
          What gave you the impression that she minded that Laurel called her at work? Other people on team arrow called her at work before and she didn’t pay too much to that. And if she minded then she wouldn’t have given her that info in the first place. There’s no indication that she minded. And even if she didn’t she really didn’t think much to it because Laurel’s missions is on par with their mission.
          “– I said that Felicity works for Ray Palmer. She chooses to continue helping Oliver with The List. But that doesn’t automatically include helping Laurel when she decides she’s going to beat up some guy because she’s angry about her sister dying.”
          Why not? She’s part of team arrow now so that means she’s part of Felicity’s team. So I don’t see how other people get a pass at calling Felicity at work when Laurel doesn’t. That’s selective on your end. Also she didn’t beat up some guy because she was angry about her sister dying. She wanted to beat up some guy because he’s a woman beating abusive pile of dirt. Her sister dying is more or a less a catylist for her to do good.
          In this case get justice on a serial woman beater. Last I checked that also falls under their team criterior.
          “The targets Team Arrow goes after are agreed on by the team. This was Laurel doing her own thing and I don’t think Felicity owes it to her to help *especially* since Laurel could have got the information from her own staff.”
          In that case this was one of the “targets” that was agreed by the team. At least by felicity who gave Laurel the info. If she didn’t “agree” on it then she wouldn’t have given that info to her. But there’s no rule saying that team arrow can’t go after multiple targets for different reasons. They go after multiple people all the time so this theory of yours is just moot.
          And this isn’t about owing anyone anything. She voluntarily gave Laurel info on a woman beater. She wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for a good cause. You know since she works with team arrow. The both of them do. And to suggest that other members of team arrow have NO other sources other felicity is just a silly concept on your end.
          “– Diggle couldn’t have got that information from elsewhere because he tried through ARGUS and got shut out. He’s been out of the military for at least 4 years now.”
          It doesn’t matter how long someone’s been out of the military. You still have contacts within your group of team members you work with. To suggest that Felicity smoak is the be all end all list of all resoruces is dumb. That’s what it is dumb. How could he not get it out from other people? Being in the military for as long as he’s been in there I’m sure he must have made a bunch of contacts. And as frost pointed out his boss has an endless supply of people working for her so your excuse that he couldn’t have gotten the info elsewhere doesn’t add up. Also I can say that Laurel couldn’t have gotten it anywhere else because they mention in the episode that the guy she was after moves around a lot and what not. They explained why the police couldn’t after the guy in the episode so in a way Laurel couldn’t have gotten it from anywhere else. That can easily be applied to eher.
          “If he had any military contacts left, it would have taken too long to reach them and get them to give him the information.”
          Again his boss, the head runner of an elite military opperation has no other means or sources to get to? I call BS on this argument of yours. If that was the case then he wouldn’t be working for this military organization if their opperation is equivalent to the management of an arby’s sandwich shop.
          “– Laurel could easily have got the information from her office. Why didn’t she go there instead of asking Felicity for a favour?”
          Who cares why she didn’t go there? She’s part of team arrow now. Or at least she’s working with them like she said in the beggining of this season’s episode so who cares why she didn’t go to her office? I would expect someone working with a team of vigilantes to call up one of the members for a favor. I don’t get your reasoning your just finding petty reasons not to like a character. And to be quite honest they’re not good or well thought out reasons.
          “Oliver and Diggle ask Felicity for help when they can’t get the answers any other way. For Laurel, using Felicity was a convenience but it caused problems for Felicity.”
          Ok I can say the same thing to you then. For Diggle, using felicity was a convenience but it caused problems for felicity. But Laurel ask Felicity for help when she couldn’t get answers any other way. And by your logic I can say she couldn’t because of this guy’s slipper background. See? I can cherry pick and make selective arguments that are clearly bias and don’t add up.
          And are you saying Felicty isn’t the token hacker girl used to make life easier for team arrow? That neither of them called her up even though they could’ve other people for information? Oliver queen especially? A billionare play boy who can buy his resources any time? or Diggle who spent his entire life in the military and is now working for someone with and endless supply of resources and a boss that pretty much has the entire military in her smart phone? That the only way that they could function in life is to call on a nerd blonde tech that rambles? Now you’re just being one sided.
          “– I disagree that Laurel is part of Team Arrow at this point. Last week, Team Arrow was helping to try to catch Sara’s killer, as they should.”
          Well then you’re not paying attention to the same show we’re watching. She said, and I quote “you catch them, I put them away” meaning she’s part of team arrow. Or at the least very least working with them to help their cause. Either way she has access to the resources they do since they are willingly working with her. So you disagree all you want but if the story says its true then it looks like you’re wrong.
          “But other than telling Oliver (Oliver, not Team Arrow) that Blood knew Slade, what has Laurel done for Team Arrow yet?”
          You mean other than help them catch Huntress last season? Find info in the person that killed sara? Getting info on Blood last season during that episode she lost her job, then there was the episode where she even teamed up with her sister and Oliver during a mission on the second to last season finale?
          You mean those things? You’re very forgetful.

          • kath says:

            Give me just one instance where Laurel has said something nice to Felicity or done something for her. Or for Diggle. Or Roy.
            +
            Laurel was not part of Team Arrow last season during Birds of Prey because she didn’t even know that Sara was the Canary and Oliver the Arrow. She wasn’t part of the Team either with Blood because she wouldn’t talk to Diggle or Felicity only to Oliver. That’s not being part of a team.
            She also invited only Oliver to the press conference announcing the end of the Anti-Vigilant Task Force, not Diggle and Felicity. Again, not a team player. She works with Oliver (you catch ’em I cook ’em) and she uses Diggle, Roy and Felicity.

          • Joe Chief says:

            @Kath

            “Give me just one instance where Laurel has said something nice to Felicity or done something for her. Or for Diggle. Or Roy.”
            What difference does it make that Laurel said something nice to Felicity? She didn’t interact that much with Feleicity at all throughout season 1 or 2. But you were saying that she was mean and she was treating felicity like a servant. No she wasn’t. She was treating feleicity like she is a part of a vigilante organization that’s fighting crime in Starling City. And Laurel lance now working WITH Team Arrow is asking for a favor. That’s not servitude and that’s not being mean.
            It doesn’t matter if Laurel Lance said something nice in the past . That’s irrelevant. Your argument was that she was treating Feleicity like a servant. You’re wrong. She was not. You are seeing things incorrectly.
            “Laurel was not part of Team Arrow last season during Birds of Prey because she didn’t even know that Sara was the Canary and Oliver the Arrow. She wasn’t part of the Team either with Blood because she wouldn’t talk to Diggle or Felicity only to Oliver. That’s not being part of a team.”
            No but she’s a part of Team Arrow now. Or at least she’s working with them at the moment. It doesn’t matter what she knew about Sara or Oliver. It doesn’t change the fact that she did something to help them out during that episode. But what you asked was what did she do for team arrow last season and you insinuated she did nothing to help out team arrow. Again you are wrong. She did. Quite a few things actually. She may not have been part of the TEAM per say but she was certainly helpful and played a huge role in their victory. And this seasons it seems like she’s working closer to that team.
            “She also invited only Oliver to the press conference announcing the end of the Anti-Vigilant Task Force, not Diggle and Felicity. ”
            Well yeah. Felicity was at work. And since one of your gripes was “dur she’s bugging her at work that’s wrong dur.” so there’s that. And she really doesn’t know Diggle that well.In fact she didn’t even interact with him at all so there’s that. So what? No really so what? Diggle and Felicity wasn’t there. Big deal. Who cares? You’re just pulling at strings now.
            “Again, not a team player.”
            If that was the case then she wouldn’t be meeting oliver in the first place. If she’s not a team player she wouldn’t have said “You catch em I cook em.” So you shot your own logic in the foot.
            “She works with Oliver (you catch ‘em I cook ‘em) and she uses Diggle, Roy and Felicity.”
            She didn’t even interact with Diggle and Roy so how did she use them? If you’re going to make these claims at least know what you’re talking about. Honestly now you’re just pulling things out of thin air. How could she use Roy and Diggle if she didn’t even interact with them yet?
            And how is she the only one using felicity when Diggle called her up for a favor as well and did Oliver in past season? Sorry but your not a very objective viewer.

          • Frost says:

            What does it matter if Laurel said something nice to Feleicity or done something for her? Felicity never asked her to do anything so I wouldn’t expect her to do something nice for her if there was no request. Last I checked Laurel Lance doesn’t have the ability to read minds. I also don’t see what Roy or Diggle have to do with anything here. She really didn’t interact with them that much other than the little bit in the last few episodes of season 2.
            But why does she have to do something nice for them? This wasn’t about doing something nice this was about getting information to stop a criminal. It’s dumb for you to equate something that someone needs with paying for coffee or picking up the tab at the cheesecake factory. That’s such a terrible comparison.
            Also your statement wasn’t “was laurel part of team arrow last season.” you asked “What did Laurel do for team arrow last season.” and we gave you examples of what she did for them. Your theory is she didn’t do anything for them and that theory is off. She did. Quite a lot actually. What does not talking to Felicity or Diggle when she gave Oliver the info on blood have to do with anything? That was still info that was needed to take down slade. Just because she didn’t share it with two people who didn’t need that info doesn’t mean anything. She could’ve told them later or Oliver could’ve relayed the message. That’s not a good argument.
            Also Felicity had a job in the beginning of season three. So did you ever think she couldn’t make because she was oh I don’t know, working at her job? Since you’re putting so much importance on your precious golden girl being bothered at work maybe that was the reason she wasn’t invited? And she didn’t even interact that much with Diggle and Roy so how is she using them? In fact how is she using felicity even? Everything you’ve said so far Kath is either inaccurate or you’re just purposely ignoring things. You’re clearly one sided and not very objective when it comes to this show.

        • SmoakAndArrows says:

          What’s not to understand?
          Your decepetive and onesided with your argument. Complainging about Laurel calling felicity at work is the most petty thing you can bring up because other members called her up at work before. Regardless of her connections at the DA’s office she decided to call felicity because she needed her help and felicity was more than willing to give it to her.
          You’re just trying to twist it around in some bias way to make a character look bad when in all honesty anyone reading your post can see you’re just being bias here.

        • Teresa Rhoda says:

          It was a Felicity babble and meant in a “are we friends now… YAY” kind of way as if she was getting clarification that they could move forward into a friendship zone.

        • Joe Chief says:

          Claire I could care less what AK and MG tweet out. What they tweet and what’s clearly ON the show are two different things. If they said Roy was a french ballerina and on the show he’s something else then what they tweet is irrelevant. But the facts are Laurel Lance was working team arrow this season. She even stated that she was in helping them bring sara’s killer to justice. Even in the next episode it seems like she plays a big part with team arrow. So yes she IS working with team arrow. Being part of the team? That’s debatable but certainly a team player.
          She wouldn’t be on the main cover if she had no affiliation with team arrow what so ever.
          So what the EP’s tweet is irrelevant.

        • Joe Chief says:

          “Give me just one instance where Laurel has said something nice to Felicity or done something for her. Or for Diggle. Or Roy.”
          What difference does it make that Laurel said something nice to Felicity? She didn’t interact that much with Feleicity at all throughout season 1 or 2. But you were saying that she was mean and she was treating felicity like a servant. No she wasn’t. She was treating feleicity like she is a part of a vigilante organization that’s fighting crime in Starling City. And Laurel lance now working WITH Team Arrow is asking for a favor. That’s not servitude and that’s not being mean.
          It doesn’t matter if Laurel Lance said something nice in the past . That’s irrelevant. Your argument was that she was treating Feleicity like a servant. You’re wrong. She was not. You are seeing things incorrectly.
          “Laurel was not part of Team Arrow last season during Birds of Prey because she didn’t even know that Sara was the Canary and Oliver the Arrow. She wasn’t part of the Team either with Blood because she wouldn’t talk to Diggle or Felicity only to Oliver. That’s not being part of a team.”
          No but she’s a part of Team Arrow now. Or at least she’s working with them at the moment. It doesn’t matter what she knew about Sara or Oliver. It doesn’t change the fact that she did something to help them out during that episode. But what you asked was what did she do for team arrow last season and you insinuated she did nothing to help out team arrow. Again you are wrong. She did. Quite a few things actually. She may not have been part of the TEAM per say but she was certainly helpful and played a huge role in their victory. And this seasons it seems like she’s working closer to that team.
          “She also invited only Oliver to the press conference announcing the end of the Anti-Vigilant Task Force, not Diggle and Felicity. ”
          Well yeah. Felicity was at work. And since one of your gripes was “dur she’s bugging her at work that’s wrong dur.” so there’s that. And she really doesn’t know Diggle that well.In fact she didn’t even interact with him at all so there’s that. So what? No really so what? Diggle and Felicity wasn’t there. Big deal. Who cares? You’re just pulling at strings now.
          “Again, not a team player.”
          If that was the case then she wouldn’t be meeting oliver in the first place. If she’s not a team player she wouldn’t have said “You catch em I cook em.” So you shot your own logic in the foot.
          “She works with Oliver (you catch ‘em I cook ‘em) and she uses Diggle, Roy and Felicity.”
          She didn’t even interact with Diggle and Roy so how did she use them? If you’re going to make these claims at least know what you’re talking about. Honestly now you’re just pulling things out of thin air. How could she use Roy and Diggle if she didn’t even interact with them yet?
          And how is she the only one using felicity when Diggle called her up for a favor as well and did Oliver in past season? Sorry but your not a very objective viewer.

        • Frost says:

          What does it matter if Laurel said something nice to Feleicity or done something for her? Felicity never asked her to do anything so I wouldn’t expect her to do something nice for her if there was no request. Last I checked Laurel Lance doesn’t have the ability to read minds. I also don’t see what Roy or Diggle have to do with anything here. She really didn’t interact with them that much other than the little bit in the last few episodes of season 2.
          But why does she have to do something nice for them? This wasn’t about doing something nice this was about getting information to stop a criminal. It’s dumb for you to equate something that someone needs with paying for coffee or picking up the tab at the cheesecake factory. That’s such a terrible comparison.
          Also your statement wasn’t “was laurel part of team arrow last season.” you asked “What did Laurel do for team arrow last season.” and we gave you examples of what she did for them. Your theory is she didn’t do anything for them and that theory is off. She did. Quite a lot actually. What does not talking to Felicity or Diggle when she gave Oliver the info on blood have to do with anything? That was still info that was needed to take down slade. Just because she didn’t share it with two people who didn’t need that info doesn’t mean anything. She could’ve told them later or Oliver could’ve relayed the message. That’s not a good argument.
          Also Felicity had a job in the beginning of season three. So did you ever think she couldn’t make because she was oh I don’t know, working at her job? Since you’re putting so much importance on your precious golden girl being bothered at work maybe that was the reason she wasn’t invited? And she didn’t even interact that much with Diggle and Roy so how is she using them? In fact how is she using felicity even? Everything you’ve said so far Kath is either inaccurate or you’re just purposely ignoring things. You’re clearly one sided and not very objective when it comes to this show.

        • Frost says:

          Of course she was ignoring her and everyone. She was dealing with her own stuff in the show I would expect someone who’s feeling resentment would WANT to be isolated. But you said she treated Feleicity poorly and that she treated her like a servant. You have no evidence of that and her asking “Who are you.” isn’t mean either because that was the first time they met. So that’s a legitimate question as far as I’m concerned. Meeting someone I didn’t know I’d ask the same thing.

          As far as season 2 goes she was drunk in that episode so I would expect her to say things she normally wouldn’t say. In fact that was the only interaction she had with felicity in that season other than working with team arrow to bring olver back. You say she’s not a team player well a team player wouldn’t have done that. And how do you know she never said please or thank you to felicity? The scene cut to a different scene so you don’t know how the ending of that conversation went.

          But them being friends isn’t the point you said she was treating her like a servant. No she wasn’t and there was no evidence that she was. And like I said before they barely interacted with each other so who cares if Laurel did or didn’t do anything for felecity. That’s not the point. The point is you have no evidence of so calles servitude. You’re just being a fan girl and I think I should call you out on that.

        • Joe Chief says:

          “There wasn’t hatred between them because Laurel ignored Felicity for two years.”
          – They didn’t interact. That doesn’t mean they ignored each other. In fact I’d say the last season shows that she didn’t ignore felicity since she worked to get Oliver back. She must have contacted Diggle and Felicity to find Oliver’s wereabouts before he could turn himself over to slade. So that’s wrong on your end.
          “The first time they met, Laurel said “Who are you?” to Felicity and then proceeded to ignore her and address all her remarks to Oliver even when Felicity called her ‘gorgeous’.”
          And this proves what exactly? Felicity interupted Oliver and Laurel in a conversation where Laurel was trying to get her feelings. I’d say the samething too if I was engaged in a conversation when I was rudely interupted by someone I didn’t know. I’d ask “Who are you.” as well. Again what’s your point? Two strangers meeting for the first time and one asks who you are? Seems legit to me.
          ” In s2 when they met, Felicity asked “How are you?” and Laurel ignored her.”
          Well she was drunk. You tend to do things out of character when you’re drunk or you don’t have that restraint with lack of sobriety. But either way I don’t see how this was treating her like a servant which you made the earlier claim.
          “In Sara, Laurel told her to turn the speaker on and to do some tech thing. She’s never said please or thank you Felicity, actually this is the first time Laurel has ever addressed Felicity by name. ”
          I can say the samething as well. Feleicity never talked to Laurel. She never went out of her way to contact laurel to hang or anything. She never said thank you or please. There for Feleicity is treating Laurel like a servant. Also they were in the middle of a mission where they were trying to find Sara’s killer. Saying thank you each time Felicity does something in that scene would be bad dialogue.
          Even Oliver didn’t say thank you each time when Felicity did something. Yet that’s not servitude? I don’t remember diggle saying thank you when he got his info. So he’s not being a servant even though the scenarios are exactly the same? There’s no consistency to your posts.
          “I don’t say they hate each other but they’re not friends either.”
          No one said they were friends. We’re saying there’s no hate and there’s no ill will towards them and that they’re now acting like they’re on the same side. Which is what I expect them to. But you’re making every move that Laurel does to be a bad one when EACH character in the show has done something similar yet you give a pass only because it’s LAUREL who did it. Do you realize how absurd that argument sounds? It’s ridiculous.
          “Okay, Laurel asked Felicity to do something for her, but when has Laurel ever done anything for Felicity?”
          – Why should she do something for Felicity? Felicity never asked and they didn’t really interact so why would Laurel do something for her when there was no favor to be done in the first place? That’s a stretch of a statement. Even for you kath.
          “She even asked Oliver to fire Felicity so he can give Laurel the job.”
          When she was drunk? People say things they don’t mean when they’re drunk. I think that was more of just a drunken slip of the tongue.
          Either way these are good examples because it’s still pretty selective.

          • kath says:

            If two strangers meet for the first time and one says “Who are you?” the common response is the continue “Nice to meet you”, especially when the other person says you’re gorgeous, not to ignore her and talk only to the man in the room.

            In vino veritas, as the saying goes. When you are drunk, that’s when your real nature comes out. Laurel looked at Felicity and told Oliver to fire her so that she (Laurel) could take her place. And still Felicity was nice to her and asked her how she was doing, to which Laurel ignored her yet again.

            Laurel and Felicity met on-screen five times before this current season. Felicity has called Laurel gorgeous, she’s apologized for interrupting her conversation with Oliver twice (both times on Arrow business while Laurel was chatting socially with Oliver), she’s asked Laurel how she’s feeling, she apologized for pulling Oliver away from Laurel at a party (for Arrow business) and she’s done what Laurel asked her to do whenever Laurel asked.
            Laurel has spoken to Felicity in two of those episodes, once to ask who she is and then ignore her the rest of the conversation and speaking only to Oliver, and again to ask Diggle and Felicity to leave their workplace so she could speak to Oliver alone.
            In Sara in season 3, she told, not asked, Felicity meet her at Verdant and later to turn up the speaker. In Corto Maltese, she phoned Felicity and told her she wanted her to get the information on the guy. Never once did she ask, or even ask if this was a good time for Felicity.
            Felicity didn’t thank Laurel for anything because Felicity never asked Laurel to do anything for her. She’s always given and Laurel’s always taken.
            If Felicity can be polite to Laurel and ask how she is (ordinary conversation) and use her name when talking to her, then Laurel can at least say Please and Thank You when she wants something from Felicity. It’s basic good manners.

          • Joe Chief says:

            @Kath
            If two strangers meet for the first time and one says “Who are you?” the common response is the continue “Nice to meet you”, especially when the other person says you’re gorgeous, not to ignore her and talk only to the man in the room.

            Why does she have to say nice to meet you? Feleicity never said “nice to meet you” to laurel so then by your logic I could say feleicity has bad manners and treats laurel like a servant. This still isn’t a good excuse not to like someone because nobody read into that as admosity or hate other than people with a petty personal vendetta against a fictional character. How about the time that Felicity ignored Laurle in season when she was talking to Oliver? There were moments when they were talking to each other while they were in each other’s company. I could easily say Feleicty has bad manners and is treating Laurel like a servant. Your excuse falls flate sweetie.

            “In vino veritas, as the saying goes. When you are drunk, that’s when your real nature comes out. Laurel looked at Felicity and told Oliver to fire her so that she (Laurel) could take her place. And still Felicity was nice to her and asked her how she was doing, to which Laurel ignored her yet again.”
            Again out of petty spite and being intoxicated. You’re still under influencing substances and given the fact that she hasn’t been in the right mind I would expect her to say a lot of things she normally wouldn’t say. If this was the “real her” then she wouldn’t have helped them out in the season finale of season 2. Or in that episdoe when she finally gave them info on blood. If that was the “real her” she wouldn’t be WORKING with team arrow at the moment and Felicity wouldn’t have given her that info. It had nothing to do with being nice and what not it had to do with their aligned goals. Regardless again this is just a cherry picking argument on your end.

            “Laurel and Felicity met on-screen five times before this current season. Felicity has called Laurel gorgeous, she’s apologized for interrupting her conversation with Oliver twice (both times on Arrow business while Laurel was chatting socially with Oliver), she’s asked Laurel how she’s feeling, she apologized for pulling Oliver away from Laurel at a party (for Arrow business) and she’s done what Laurel asked her to do whenever Laurel asked.”
            I don’t get why you keep bringing up the same example over and over again when we already established that this is not a showcase of hate/ servitude towards someone else. Felicity had screen time with plenty of other characters on the show and never interacted with any of them. How come she’s not considered a person with “bad manners” then? What about when she ignored Nysa in the season finale of season 2? I guess that means Feleicity has bad manners then according to your logic. Again you sound utterly silly and bias. You just have a personal dislike rather than a legitimate one when you’re just seeing things that aren’t there. Not talking to someone is not considered “bad manners” esepcially when felicity left before laurel could respond when she called her “gorgeous” so how could laurel talk to someone who isn’t there? Are you gonna bring up this point again even after we’ve already showed you how insignificant it is?

            “Laurel has spoken to Felicity in two of those episodes, once to ask who she is and then ignore her the rest of the conversation and speaking only to Oliver, and again to ask Diggle and Felicity to leave their workplace so she could speak to Oliver alone.”
            That’s not a showing of bad manners then. She asked who are you to someone she didn’t know. That’s a legimitate question. Not saying “Nice to meet you” is not bad manners. Espeically when she left before felicity could respond. And neither is asking Diggle and Felicity to leave terporarily before she could speak to Oliver. Also how do you think Laurel got INTO the Arrow lair in the first place? She must have SPOKEN to feleicity and diggle and asked for their help because their goals aligned. There you go. Your argument has been shot down.

            “In Sara in season 3, she told, not asked, Felicity meet her at Verdant and later to turn up the speaker. In Corto Maltese, she phoned Felicity and told her she wanted her to get the information on the guy. Never once did she ask, or even ask if this was a good time for Felicity.”
            Why is this a big issue for you? Oliver “told” and didn’t ask her to do things as well. Felicity “told” people like Roy and Sara for things and they didn’t mind. Why does everyone have to ask your precious favorite character for something in order to not be a bad person in your eyes? Or is it just Laurel because you have a petty personal dislike for her? And again need I remind you that OLIVER never asked if it was a good time for Feleicity either. Your logic has so many holes that’s not even funny.

            “Felicity didn’t thank Laurel for anything because Felicity never asked Laurel to do anything for her. She’s always given and Laurel’s always taken.”
            Exactly she never ASKED Laurel to do anything for her so why would Laurel do something nice for her or a favor for her when she never asked her to do something? But your argument was that Laurel never said thank you. Hence Laurel is a bad person. Well there were moments when felicity never said thank you to people when did things for like when sara patched her up. There for by your logic Felicity smoak is a bad person. I’m sorry but your stock argument doesn’t hold up.
            So when Laurel helped out Sara and Oliver to catch Huntress last season that was her taking something right? Or Laurel telling Oliver that she had proof on Blood that was her taking something as well? How about Laurel trying to find a woman beater on the streets? Or maybe in a future episode Laurel trying to clear her friend Ted Grant of murder? Oh and then there’s the relationship with Tommy where she tried to help him after malcom merlyin cut him off? Selective much are we?

            “If Felicity can be polite to Laurel and ask how she is (ordinary conversation) and use her name when talking to her, then Laurel can at least say Please and Thank You when she wants something from Felicity. It’s basic good manners.”
            But you don’t know if she did or not. The examples that you were given for those scenes it cut off to another scene entirely. When Laurel was asking feleicity about the speakers, it switched to another scene. When she was asking for a favor to find the perpertrator that hits his girlfriend it switched to another scene without continuing the conversation so you have no idea how the converesation ended.
            Also Laurel did call Felicity by her name in the second season of episode 2. And she got into the arrow lair with Felicity and Diggle’s help. I think it’s safe to assume she called them by their names.

        • Joe Chief says:

          If two strangers meet for the first time and one says “Who are you?” the common response is the continue “Nice to meet you”, especially when the other person says you’re gorgeous, not to ignore her and talk only to the man in the room.

          Why does she have to say nice to meet you? Feleicity never said “nice to meet you” to laurel so then by your logic I could say feleicity has bad manners and treats laurel like a servant. This still isn’t a good excuse not to like someone because nobody read into that as admosity or hate other than people with a petty personal vendetta against a fictional character. How about the time that Felicity ignored Laurle in season when she was talking to Oliver? There were moments when they were talking to each other while they were in each other’s company. I could easily say Feleicty has bad manners and is treating Laurel like a servant. Your excuse falls flate sweetie.

          “In vino veritas, as the saying goes. When you are drunk, that’s when your real nature comes out. Laurel looked at Felicity and told Oliver to fire her so that she (Laurel) could take her place. And still Felicity was nice to her and asked her how she was doing, to which Laurel ignored her yet again.”
          Again out of petty spite and being intoxicated. You’re still under influencing substances and given the fact that she hasn’t been in the right mind I would expect her to say a lot of things she normally wouldn’t say. If this was the “real her” then she wouldn’t have helped them out in the season finale of season 2. Or in that episdoe when she finally gave them info on blood. If that was the “real her” she wouldn’t be WORKING with team arrow at the moment and Felicity wouldn’t have given her that info. It had nothing to do with being nice and what not it had to do with their aligned goals. Regardless again this is just a cherry picking argument on your end.

          “Laurel and Felicity met on-screen five times before this current season. Felicity has called Laurel gorgeous, she’s apologized for interrupting her conversation with Oliver twice (both times on Arrow business while Laurel was chatting socially with Oliver), she’s asked Laurel how she’s feeling, she apologized for pulling Oliver away from Laurel at a party (for Arrow business) and she’s done what Laurel asked her to do whenever Laurel asked.”
          I don’t get why you keep bringing up the same example over and over again when we already established that this is not a showcase of hate/ servitude towards someone else. Felicity had screen time with plenty of other characters on the show and never interacted with any of them. How come she’s not considered a person with “bad manners” then? What about when she ignored Nysa in the season finale of season 2? I guess that means Feleicity has bad manners then according to your logic. Again you sound utterly silly and bias. You just have a personal dislike rather than a legitimate one when you’re just seeing things that aren’t there. Not talking to someone is not considered “bad manners” esepcially when felicity left before laurel could respond when she called her “gorgeous” so how could laurel talk to someone who isn’t there? Are you gonna bring up this point again even after we’ve already showed you how insignificant it is?

          “Laurel has spoken to Felicity in two of those episodes, once to ask who she is and then ignore her the rest of the conversation and speaking only to Oliver, and again to ask Diggle and Felicity to leave their workplace so she could speak to Oliver alone.”
          That’s not a showing of bad manners then. She asked who are you to someone she didn’t know. That’s a legimitate question. Not saying “Nice to meet you” is not bad manners. Espeically when she left before felicity could respond. And neither is asking Diggle and Felicity to leave terporarily before she could speak to Oliver. Also how do you think Laurel got INTO the Arrow lair in the first place? She must have SPOKEN to feleicity and diggle and asked for their help because their goals aligned. There you go. Your argument has been shot down.

          “In Sara in season 3, she told, not asked, Felicity meet her at Verdant and later to turn up the speaker. In Corto Maltese, she phoned Felicity and told her she wanted her to get the information on the guy. Never once did she ask, or even ask if this was a good time for Felicity.”
          Why is this a big issue for you? Oliver “told” and didn’t ask her to do things as well. Felicity “told” people like Roy and Sara for things and they didn’t mind. Why does everyone have to ask your precious favorite character for something in order to not be a bad person in your eyes? Or is it just Laurel because you have a petty personal dislike for her? And again need I remind you that OLIVER never asked if it was a good time for Feleicity either. Your logic has so many holes that’s not even funny.

          “Felicity didn’t thank Laurel for anything because Felicity never asked Laurel to do anything for her. She’s always given and Laurel’s always taken.”
          Exactly she never ASKED Laurel to do anything for her so why would Laurel do something nice for her or a favor for her when she never asked her to do something? But your argument was that Laurel never said thank you. Hence Laurel is a bad person. Well there were moments when felicity never said thank you to people when did things for like when sara patched her up. There for by your logic Felicity smoak is a bad person. I’m sorry but your stock argument doesn’t hold up.
          So when Laurel helped out Sara and Oliver to catch Huntress last season that was her taking something right? Or Laurel telling Oliver that she had proof on Blood that was her taking something as well? How about Laurel trying to find a woman beater on the streets? Or maybe in a future episode Laurel trying to clear her friend Ted Grant of murder? Oh and then there’s the relationship with Tommy where she tried to help him after malcom merlyin cut him off? Selective much are we?

          “If Felicity can be polite to Laurel and ask how she is (ordinary conversation) and use her name when talking to her, then Laurel can at least say Please and Thank You when she wants something from Felicity. It’s basic good manners.”
          But you don’t know if she did or not. The examples that you were given for those scenes it cut off to another scene entirely. When Laurel was asking feleicity about the speakers, it switched to another scene. When she was asking for a favor to find the perpertrator that hits his girlfriend it switched to another scene without continuing the conversation so you have no idea how the converesation ended.
          Also Laurel did call Felicity by her name in the second season of episode 2. And she got into the arrow lair with Felicity and Diggle’s help. I think it’s safe to assume she called them by their names.

        • SmoakAndArrows says:

          You don’t have to say “nice to meet you” to have good manners. Especially if after the other person walked off scene. She’s not required to talk to he person that isn’t there any more. She’d look really silly if she did that. Also It’s a known fact that people say things they don’t necesserily mean when they’re drunk. Are you meaning to tell me that every drunk dialer is being honest when they call up people when they’re intoxicated? And if her true intentions were to have Oliver all to herself then how come she didn’t even establish a relationship with Oliver in season 2? In fact how come there are no mentions of romance between laurel and oliver this season? I agree with everyone when they say you’re not remembering things correctly or you’re purposely getting it wrong.

          Either way this isnt a very subjective or fair post on your end. Felicity called Laurel gorgegous and walked off scene. She couldn’t have responded. Asking Laurel how she was feeling and then being whisked off in a cab isn’t ignoring. It’s Oliver getting Laurel Lance home. That’s not a very good example on your end. Not to mention those episodes coincided with the same goals that team arrow has. But you make it sound like Laurel is asking Felicity for favors that are equivalent to picking up a dinner tab. Thats not the case here. Of course Felicity is going to help out people who helped her out in the past. Which she did. She helped out Team Arrow and Felicity is part of team arrow.

          And I don’t get why you’re bringing up Laurel asking Diggle and Felicity to leave. What does that prove exactly? Felicity asked Laurel to borrow Oliver to talk to him. That’s kind of the same thing really. And it doesn’t matter if she told and not asked for things because the rest of Team Arrow has done that as well. Even Felicity on a few occasions. If you’re going to be this addament about hating a fictional character with your constantly changing criteria then one can easily apply it to your favorite character as well.

          I like Felicity as much as the next arrow fan but for the purpose of discussion it’s completely silly on your end to be this one sided and ridiculously inaccurate and try to excuse it. If you’re going to try to pull of an analysis of a character then make sure you get the scenes right.

          You’ve been nothing but inaccurate so far.

          • kath says:

            ” Felicity called Laurel gorgegous and walked off scene. She couldn’t have responded. ”

            Have a look at the scene again. Felicity called Laurel gorgeous, and then explained that she (Felicity) was nobody. Oliver said “She’s putting together my internet”, Felicity explained it was a router and that she needed to show Oliver something right. Laurel turned to Oliver and said “I’ll let you get on with it then” completing ignoring Felicity and anything Felicity had been saying to her. Cut to Oliver and Felicity in the basement.

            I think I’ve explained the other scenes enough. This is getting boring.

          • SmoakAndArrows says:

            Well she didn’t ignore her though. You just said that she asked who are you? So she acknoweldged her pressence and then when Oliver told Laurel that he and Felicity had some business they had to take care of Laurel allowed them to get back to work.
            That’s not ignoring someone that’s allowing people to get back to work. As for your other so called “explanations” you didn’t explain the scenes. You just misinterepreted them through a bias and selective mindset.
            That’s not being subjective and fair. That’s you being petty, shallow and incredibly one sided with your argument.
            Pretty much everything you’ve said so far.

          • Frost says:

            If the scene played out the way you say it did (I forgot the scene to be quite honest) then That wasn’t ignoring someone at all. That was Laurel Lance leaving so Oliver and Feleicity could do whatever they needed to do.
            And no you didn’t explain the other scenes. What you did was try to twist things around in your jumbled up mind to make it fit your bias fan girl stance. That’s not a proper or valid explanation.
            That’s the nonsensical bias rantings of a fan girl who didn’t properply analyze a scene.
            Just like you demonstrated now.

        • Joe Chief says:

          “Have a look at the scene again. Felicity called Laurel gorgeous, and then explained that she (Felicity) was nobody. Oliver said “She’s putting together my internet”, Felicity explained it was a router and that she needed to show Oliver something right. Laurel turned to Oliver and said “I’ll let you get on with it then” completing ignoring Felicity and anything Felicity had been saying to her. Cut to Oliver and Felicity in the basement. I think I’ve explained the other scenes enough. This is getting boring.”

          Ok so then she let Oliver and Feleicty go back to tend to whatever business that they were tending to right? So basically it was Laurel allowing Felicity and Oliver to get back to their task at hand.
          In that case it certainly wasn’t ignoring nor was it even servitude. In fact if anything Laurel was being courteous to let Felicity and Oliver get back to business.
          Regardless you failed to show bad mannerisms on Laurel’s end. If anything this was her being courteous and consisdering of two people who needed to work. And your explanations of the other scenes are inaccurate or you just seeing things that aren’t there.
          That or you’re just completely misinterperting things. Either way your argument doesn’t add up and you’re still being selective.
          Thank you for proving that you were wrong.

        • SmoakAndArrows says:

          Well she didn’t ignore her though. You just said that she asked who are you? So she acknoweldged her pressence and then when Oliver told Laurel that he and Felicity had some business they had to take care of Laurel allowed them to get back to work.
          That’s not ignoring someone that’s allowing people to get back to work. As for your other so called “explanations” you didn’t explain the scenes. You just misinterepreted them through a bias and selective mindset.
          That’s not being subjective and fair. That’s you being petty, shallow and incredibly one sided with your argument.
          Pretty much everything you’ve said so far.

        • Frost says:

          If the scene played out the way you say it did (I forgot the scene to be quite honest) then That wasn’t ignoring someone at all. That was Laurel Lance leaving so Oliver and Feleicity could do whatever they needed to do.
          And no you didn’t explain the other scenes. What you did was try to twist things around in your jumbled up mind to make it fit your bias fan girl stance. That’s not a proper or valid explanation.
          That’s the nonsensical bias rantings of a fan girl who didn’t properply analyze a scene.
          Just like you demonstrated now.

      • aunni says:

        it was obvious that there is no slight amount of relation between these 2 girls. for 2yrs they never had a conversation. the writers kns that, general viewers will hv this question. what is felicity and laurel, r they friends? r they team mate (not yet)?
        if u hv vendetta against Felicity, thats another point. bt it was a elephant in the room needed addressing.

        • Briggs says:

          And they’re fun moments. Asking the questions that are going to be asked. Arrow being meta is awesome. :)

          • aunni says:

            arrow choose the perfect moment to point it out. felicity in the middle of a very hard task, given by her new boss. dig calls her, now she’s rambeling to cover it up. then also laurel calls. she was a mess infornt of her boss. under no circumtances felicity wd hv said that. bt its classic felicity whom I & LOTS of ppl adore.

        • Frost says:

          But there was never any hatred between them. And the last episodes of season two shows them working together. I don’t have a vendetta against Felicity. I don’t think she’s that great but I don’t hate the character. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous it is when Laurel, someone who is now working with team arrow asked her for a small favor that took up little to no time on her end.

          It’s ridiculous to say she’s treating her like a servant when all she asked for was some help.

          • kath says:

            There wasn’t hatred between them because Laurel ignored Felicity for two years. The first time they met, Laurel said “Who are you?” to Felicity and then proceeded to ignore her and address all her remarks to Oliver even when Felicity called her ‘gorgeous’. In s2 when they met, Felicity asked “How are you?” and Laurel ignored her. In Sara, Laurel told her to turn the speaker on and to do some tech thing. She’s never said please or thank you Felicity, actually this is the first time Laurel has ever addressed Felicity by name. I don’t say they hate each other but they’re not friends either.

            Okay, Laurel asked Felicity to do something for her, but when has Laurel ever done anything for Felicity? She even asked Oliver to fire Felicity so he can give Laurel the job.

          • Frost says:

            Of course she was ignoring her and everyone. She was dealing with her own stuff in the show I would expect someone who’s feeling resentment would WANT to be isolated. But you said she treated Feleicity poorly and that she treated her like a servant. You have no evidence of that and her asking “Who are you.” isn’t mean either because that was the first time they met. So that’s a legitimate question as far as I’m concerned. Meeting someone I didn’t know I’d ask the same thing.
            As far as season 2 goes she was drunk in that episode so I would expect her to say things she normally wouldn’t say. In fact that was the only interaction she had with felicity in that season other than working with team arrow to bring olver back. You say she’s not a team player well a team player wouldn’t have done that. And how do you know she never said please or thank you to felicity? The scene cut to a different scene so you don’t know how the ending of that conversation went.
            But them being friends isn’t the point you said she was treating her like a servant. No she wasn’t and there was no evidence that she was. And like I said before they barely interacted with each other so who cares if Laurel did or didn’t do anything for felecity. That’s not the point. The point is you have no evidence of so calles servitude. You’re just being a fan girl and I think I should call you out on that.

          • Joe Chief says:

            “There wasn’t hatred between them because Laurel ignored Felicity for two years.”
            – They didn’t interact. That doesn’t mean they ignored each other. In fact I’d say the last season shows that she didn’t ignore felicity since she worked to get Oliver back. She must have contacted Diggle and Felicity to find Oliver’s wereabouts before he could turn himself over to slade. So that’s wrong on your end.
            “The first time they met, Laurel said “Who are you?” to Felicity and then proceeded to ignore her and address all her remarks to Oliver even when Felicity called her ‘gorgeous’.”
            And this proves what exactly? Felicity interupted Oliver and Laurel in a conversation where Laurel was trying to get her feelings. I’d say the samething too if I was engaged in a conversation when I was rudely interupted by someone I didn’t know. I’d ask “Who are you.” as well. Again what’s your point? Two strangers meeting for the first time and one asks who you are? Seems legit to me.
            ” In s2 when they met, Felicity asked “How are you?” and Laurel ignored her.”
            Well she was drunk. You tend to do things out of character when you’re drunk or you don’t have that restraint with lack of sobriety. But either way I don’t see how this was treating her like a servant which you made the earlier claim.
            “In Sara, Laurel told her to turn the speaker on and to do some tech thing. She’s never said please or thank you Felicity, actually this is the first time Laurel has ever addressed Felicity by name. ”
            I can say the samething as well. Feleicity never talked to Laurel. She never went out of her way to contact laurel to hang or anything. She never said thank you or please. There for Feleicity is treating Laurel like a servant. Also they were in the middle of a mission where they were trying to find Sara’s killer. Saying thank you each time Felicity does something in that scene would be bad dialogue.
            Even Oliver didn’t say thank you each time when Felicity did something. Yet that’s not servitude? I don’t remember diggle saying thank you when he got his info. So he’s not being a servant even though the scenarios are exactly the same? There’s no consistency to your posts.
            “I don’t say they hate each other but they’re not friends either.”
            No one said they were friends. We’re saying there’s no hate and there’s no ill will towards them and that they’re now acting like they’re on the same side. Which is what I expect them to. But you’re making every move that Laurel does to be a bad one when EACH character in the show has done something similar yet you give a pass only because it’s LAUREL who did it. Do you realize how absurd that argument sounds? It’s ridiculous.
            “Okay, Laurel asked Felicity to do something for her, but when has Laurel ever done anything for Felicity?”
            – Why should she do something for Felicity? Felicity never asked and they didn’t really interact so why would Laurel do something for her when there was no favor to be done in the first place? That’s a stretch of a statement. Even for you kath.
            “She even asked Oliver to fire Felicity so he can give Laurel the job.”
            When she was drunk? People say things they don’t mean when they’re drunk. I think that was more of just a drunken slip of the tongue.
            Either way these are good examples because it’s still pretty selective.

    • G. says:

      LOL so for reals, I laughed! I was just saying out loud, “Since when are they friends?”

  2. justtobesane says:

    “Nyssa al-Ghul crashes the Arrowcave, looking for her sis Sara!” Yeah…. not sisters.

  3. Sparky says:

    Love watching Malcolm corrupt Thea. You know he has an ulterior motive behind training his daughter. Liked Oliver and Thea’s heart to heart…SA doing a good job at the emotional stuff this season. Looks like Laurels story is starting off on the right path. She probably needs to have her ass handed to her and the crap kicked out of her a good few times so that they can break her down and build her back up again. Might be too soon to suit her up by the end of the season. Maybe start of season 4 give her the suit. Then use flashbacks to tell her story. She could have gone away with Ted Grant for a while to build her skills better. Anyway Nyssas back next week. And big Daddy Ra’s not too long afterwards….yay!!!! Kinda funny Felicity gets Oliver’s old office and an EA. So is Ray a baddie…..sure has the look especially when he’s looking at weapons!!!!

  4. Foshi says:

    Slightly underwhelmed by this episode but that’s my fault for having high expectations. I loved the Felicity quips in this episode, she made it more enjoyable and fun, plus the girl’s got her own coffee b#tch now. Yeeah! Seeing Roy, Diggle and Oliver have a boys trip was fun as well but I’m missing the OG Team Arrow interactions that make this show so great. One phone call between Dig and Felicity in two episodes does not a great relationship make. I saw Amell say something about Oliver being a grown up and not ignoring Felicity even though there were unresolved issues but that’s all I saw tonight. Thea’s growing on me and it was nice to see Malcolm back. All other parts of this episode were boring or felt forced. Fingers crossed next week will rock!

  5. Tanner says:

    Not the best episode but legit question here: shouldn’t they change the lock code on the Arrow Cave door? Seriously it feels like anyone can just get in. New security measures should have been taken after Slade destroyed the place.

  6. aura says:

    I like that we are actually seeing Laurel’s journey. Roy’s sucked and it looks like we’ll just get Thea’s in this once flashback.

    I’m connected more with Laurel’s story now cause I’m seeing it actually happening.

    • Wow, I sure hope this was not the only Thea flashback … I was actually glad to have the flashbacks be something I wanted to see for once. Haven’t been interested in one for months.

  7. aura says:

    Also I’m already digging the chemistry between Ted and Laurel.

  8. JAB says:

    This was an extremely weak episode. Mostly because there is no reason to care about any of the characters the story circulated around.

    Honestly, if Thea was never on the show again, would we really miss her?

    And I get that we’re being force fed the Laurel as Black Canary story, but canon or not – it ain’t working and I’m not buying it. And I want it to work! Laurel actually having a point is long overdue.

    The last minute or so of the episode was the only part worth watching.

    They’re really making it difficult to like this season.

  9. Briggs says:

    Okay, so I was feeling better about Laurel this time. All her scenes felt more natural, in particular the one with her father (you could really feel her bond with Paul Blackthorne). So I’m feeling more optimistic.
    .
    Felicity was great in this ep. The one interaction with Oliver left me thinking he suspects she’s keeping a secret, but he had other things on his mind that (rightly) took priority (such as looking for his missing sister *ahem*). Her time with Ray has delicious sexual tension, and her lines with Laurel were very much Confuzzled Felicity.
    .
    See, the writers know what they’re doing.
    .
    SA was in fine form this episode, talking with Thea and helping out Diggle. He demonstrated a good emotional range, and was completely believable as a worried older brother and comrade in arms in the same breath. His scene later with Laurel was basically repeating things I’ve been hearing in these comments sections for months. Thank you, Oliver.
    .
    But hellooooooo, Ted Grant! LOL Points to who gets the reference. All I have to say about that.
    .
    Malcolm was at his best in this ep. The performance was understated, but powerful, present day and flashback. He’s devious, and sick, and is obviously trouble. I can’t wait to see how he tries to stay in Thea’s life. And her reaction when she finds out he knew something about Oliver she didn’t and *never told her*.
    .
    Thea came into her own, here. I don’t know what’s going to happen with her and Roy, but clearly, they still have feelings for each other. And her feelings for her brother brought her home. Let’s see what else they do in the weeks until the season break.
    .
    Roy made me so proud. He handled Thea in a mature, adult manner, and ably seconded both Oliver and Diggle in their endeavors, both ‘professional’ and personal. Very good performance from him tonight.
    .
    Diggle domesticity could be in trouble. And is it just me, or does Baby Sara look a lot like her daddy? So cute. :)

  10. Drew says:

    Anyone else wondering how Oliver is going to break the news to Thea that they now live in the basement of their nightclub? They did lose the house with all of their money, right?
    Good episode. I actually like this storyline for Laurel. She was looking a little Ruby-esque tonight too.
    And of course, Felicity rocked. And I always enjoy seeing Diggle take the lead on a mission.

  11. Carol says:

    The improvement this week was palpable.. Or maybe I was just so disappointed last week that it couldn’t get worse. Everyone was great (kind of). I really love Thea and Oliver’s relationship.. WH and SA were just awesome! Diggle is THE man, enough said. I’m so glad Felicity finally has a job worth of her.. And that office is just so cool! Laurel had 2 unbearable point this week (an improvement from usually all her scenes), the fact she thinks she can call Felicity up like she’s some personal Google is ridiculous! They’ve barely had scenes together and when they did laurel was less than warm to her.. You tell laurels skinny ass how it is felicity! And her scene with Oliver made me roll my eyes so much I was afraid for a second they’d get stuck in the back of my head or something.. They really need to tone down the BC stuff, this crap about her “having this fire that won’t go away” or whatever is so not working.. The writers are trying too hard too soon.. And it’s making me not want to see laurel on screen because Sara’s body is not even cold In the ground yet.. Slow down so I can keep trying to warm up to a character that has been nothing but stuck up and annoying for the past 2 years! Sometimes I wonder why I keep bothering trying to give Laurel a chance..

    • L says:

      Laurel is messed up cause of her sisters death… I’m sure they will take her training stuff slowly but its good that they are starting it. I never understood why so many of these “fangirl” types dont like her.

      • Josh says:

        Fan girls are the worst. They literally ruin the discussions of every show with their lack of an understanding of motives of characters they don’t like. Fangirls/shippers are the worst part of fandom.

      • Really, you’re sure about this?
        What show have YOU been watching? She’ll be Black Canary before end of season, with under 1 year of training — mark my words.

      • CC says:

        I’m not a “fangirl” but I can tell you that I don’t like her because she comes across as cold, selfish and like a “mean girl” from HS with no convincing redeeming qualities. Her screen presence is nothing compared to the others and her chemistry is basically nonexistent with anyone. Every scene she’s in feels off, and I don’t think it’s because of Laurel the character, I think it’s because of the casting choice. I say this as someone who is totally new to the show, has barely read anything about “shipping” or other comments, and has simply binge-watched all episodes. I know her role according to canon, but they should have either done a better job with casting or they should let the show go organically in another direction and write her out, because they did a bad job choosing the actress.

    • Jon says:

      Actually, they’re on the right track, finally, with Laurel. Why would time and waiting for Sara to be “cold in the ground” be the right time for Laurel to begin her journey? When someone you’re close to dies, that’s a breaking point, a change in character. It’s more than an addiction , which is why alcohol isn’t her go to or her pills, it’s a life changing moment where it really changes someone and shows who or what they can become. People like Oliver are pigeonholing her as Laurel from season 1-2, ( understandable in their world ) but she is not that Laurel anymore. She’s real, she’s angry, and she’s beginning to transform into who she was meant to be.

      As for Felicity, sure Laurel should probably form some kind of relationship with her before asking favors like that, but it’s also understandable that Laurel has blinders on. She’s one sighted right now and it’s a flaw that hopefully will be expanded in the future. I hope she does become friends with Felicity, but Im glad that hasn’t happened yet because friendship takes time to build.

      Is Laurel flawed still? Sure, but it’s those flaws that make me committed to her story and I like that her journey is being deliver via real time versus flashbacks. So yes, there will be hard times, and she’ll get her ass kicked a bunch, but at least we get to see her path.

  12. Alichat says:

    I found it odd that Felicity was ok with trying to salvage anything from the hard drive found in the Applied Sciences division rubble. Did anyone else find that odd? She knows why it was destroyed…..she has to know there are not-so-good things on that drive. She didn’t even pause to wonder if it might be a mistake to salvage it.

    • Sparky says:

      Wasn’t it Felicitys idea to blow the building up last season????

    • bostonmolly says:

      My thought is that she was ok with doing it because she knew she wouldn’t give out the information.

      • Alichat says:

        What do you mean? She salvaged the information, then ran off to The Flash and left Palmer to read through it all. If she wasn’t going to share the information, why salvage the drive? I was expecting her to say she wasn’t able to do it, then see her loading the data onto the computer in the lair.

        • freemebree says:

          guys the reason why applied sciences was blown up was because they didnt want slade to use it not for the info in felicty’s mind there was no harm in getting the info

          • Alichat says:

            They blew it up because Isabel had put all of QC’s funds/resources into the Applied Sciences division with the goal of creating a way to mass-produce the Mirakuru and deploy it to Slade’s army of psychos. Felicity knew this….she is part of the ‘they’ that blew it up. Plus, considering what Oliver’s parents were into before the events of the show (Merlyn and his crazy murder machine), it’s not an off assumption to make that there is something on that drive that shouldn’t be found. Felicity really should have known that there is probably more harm than good to be found in that data.

          • Briggs says:

            I think Felicity had other things on her mind than what was on the drive, considering she was fielding phone calls as well as QC work with her boss watching (I literally yelled, “Get out of the room, Ray Palmer!” at the screen and fully deserved the strange look my mother gave me). Besides which, Felicity might have honestly thought there were no more surprises to be had in Applied Sciences. After all, the earthquake machine and mirakuru are no more…

        • kath says:

          I don’t think Felicity knew what the information was. I think Ray Palmer did, that’s why he wanted QC, for it’s applied sciences division and that information, and that’s why he paid $1.2 billion to buy Felicity’s company to get her expertise when none of his own people could get the information out.

  13. Things i liked…Everything in Corto Maltese,the great Ollie/Thea scenes everything Diggle also enjoyed Roy,sorry guys but Felicity has better chemistry with Ray and Barry.Things i didn’t like everything Laurel uggh at least she did overact as much this ep so thats a plus

  14. Laura says:

    love your recaps, can tell you really watch show carefully and know what fans care about, good call back to armitage

  15. sladewilson says:

    I might be wrong but I could’ve sworn I saw on the bottom of the advanced weapons blueprints that Ray was looking at the initials O.M.A.C. and if I’m right, us comic geeks know that spells SERIOUS trouble. Oh, the last thing Palmer wants to do is put O.M.A.C. and Brother Eye online….

    • Madison says:

      That’s what I saw and are we to believe this is just a coincidence with Captain Boomerang slated to make an appearance this season or is that on The Flash? Or both with the crossover towards mid-season? Glad I’m not the only one that saw that!

    • Carla Krae says:

      Yikes.

  16. bostonmolly says:

    Best part of the episode: being tempted to google “how to make a bow and arrows from household items or things in a hotel room.” Also not sure how I feel about Oliver with a gun, although glad he uses it well.

  17. Anna says:

    I loved all the Felicity scenes, especially when she was juggling the phone calls…and Oliver/Thea. Diggle is always great, but I miss the Original Team Arrow.

  18. Natalie says:

    -Thea was incredible!
    -Laurel was tolerable (although I couldnt stop laughing when she tried to fight that guy)
    -I’m so happy that there is absolutely nothing romantic happening between Oliver and Laurel. They are so much better, and more natural, this way.
    -Felicity’s new job is well deserved! So happy for her!
    -It was nice to see more Diggle. However, I feel like he is becoming irrelevant and doesn’t fit into the story anymore. I love Diggle, but I feel like this will be his last season.

    Overall, solid episode.

    • Briggs says:

      Diggle says more with a shoulder clasp than most of us say all day. Being the strong, silent type is his schtick. I wasn’t aware he was becoming irrelevant in an ep where Oliver split time between getting his sister back and helping Dig with a rogue agent….

      • Natalie says:

        And I love Diggle and his infinite wisdom. I just get the feeling that the writers don’t know what to do with him anymore. When Sara became part of Team Arrow last season, Diggle was practically ignored. Now, with Roy and Laurel, I’m afraid he will get even less screen time. If it was up to me, the original team arrow: Oliver, Digg, and Felicity would always be the focus. Unfortunately, team arrow is becoming crowded and I fear Digg will leave the team at the end of the season. I ALWAYS want more Diggle, and I ALWAYS love his scenes. I wish every Laurel scene was replaced with a Diggle scene. I don’t want Digg to be irrelevant, believe me. But if Laurel and Roy are out in the field with Oliver, and Felicity is being the computer genius, where does Digg fit in? Is he just going to hang around the Foundry giving pep talks to the team? It’s sad, but I think his departure is inevitable. I don’t know, maybe he will get his own suicide squad spin-off?

        • Briggs says:

          Oliver spent a few minutes tonight telling Laurel why she *wasn’t* going to be *trained*, let alone allowed into the field, at any time, let alone any time soon. Let’s not jump the gun, here. Diggle is still pretty relevant. I saw absolutely no reason why we should think he’s irrelevant in tonight’s episode, though I can see why one would think that based on episodes 1 + 2. So unless, for some mysterious reason, Laurel suits up in the next episode and Oliver *lets* her fight with them, *and* she or Roy starts dispensing his brand of wisdom, I think Dig’s position on Team Arrow is safe.

          • Natalie says:

            He wasn’t irrelevant in tonight’s episode. I think seeing him being back at the center of the action made me realize how rare it is now. I really hope your right and Laurel doesn’t join in on the action any time soon. Although, as much as I hate it, she most likely will by the end of the season.

          • Briggs says:

            That still might not mean that Diggle ducks out, seeing as she’ll still be a newbie. Besides, i keep hearing rumors he may get a green ring (or people think he should have one), so his role might change… :)

        • John NYC says:

          Once his relationship with Layla blows up he’ll be right back front and center. They laid the groundwork for that pretty thickly in that episode.

          • kath says:

            I think Diggle’s relationship with Lyla is here to stay. He’s going to be the role model to teach Oliver that you can have it all — crime fighter and family man.

  19. Jenny says:

    Really underwhelming season so far partly because season 2 was so great, expectations are high and not being met. I agree with some of u that laurels story is longgggg overdue it makes it hard to care for anything she does. And the fact she’s getting so much air time is jsksndksk. same with Thea, an important presence but not one we care much for…. Bring back oliver as the center… That’s what we want to see.

  20. kath says:

    I liked this episode. Glad to see Thea and and manipulating Merlyn as Moira’s daughter should.

    Diggle is great as always, both as Lyla’s baby daddy and Oliver voice of reason. (And oh, those hotel made weapons!)

    They played Roy just right, and Colton Haynes facial expressions were great.

    Finally someone is appreciating Felicity’s tech skills and not just abusing her as a personal servant — I’m looking at you, Diggle and Laurel but at least in Diggle’s case it was life or death.

    They got some of Laurel’s stuff very right, (training with Ted Grant and not Oliver), and some not so right (why wouldn’t she try legal means frist since she’s an ADA?) Still, better than she’s been in a long time.

    As for Sara’s magical jacket, is the Once Upon a Time?

    • kath says:

      I’m missing the core Team Arrow (Oliver/Diggle/Felicity) though. That’s what I love most about the show.

      With Oliver pulling away from Felicity, it took Diggle to phone her this time to get her tech help. I get that they don’t want to put Oliver and Felicity in a relationship right now but their interactions from the first two seasons were good and we’re not getting even that now.

      • Briggs says:

        Oliver was in Corto Maltese to reconnect with Thea. *Diggle* was the one who was there on a an unofficial mission. Why do people think that Oliver should be calling Felicity about Diggle’s unofficial mission?

        • kath says:

          If not about the mission, then maybe another conversation about something else.
          In this episode, the only interaction they had was Oliver asking about his sister and looking pissed off when Felicity said she had to go to work Next week she’s in Central City.
          The best part of this show is the original Team Arrow of Oliver/Diggle/Felicity, and that includes the banter Oliver and Felicity had. If Oliver is going to be all standoffish and pissy because Felicity won’t wait for him in the lair to die, then the show is going to lose a lot of its appeal.

          • Briggs says:

            Stephen Amell said that their issues would be talked about later in the fall. At the time she made her announcement, Oliver’s focus had to be on something else, and he realized that, so he focused on that other thing. Which is healthy. They still have a job to do, and that will be hard to accomplish if they’re trying to hash out personal issues at the same time. Rest assured, they haven’t forgotten, it’s just being put off until later.

    • Carla Krae says:

      Unless the girlfriend wants to press charges, the abusive boyfriend is free. He’d have to be arrested for something completely unrelated to get him off the street. And AA meetings are confidential, so like Lance told Laurel, if cops show their badges in meetings, no drunk will ever show up.

      • Patrick says:

        He had warrants for his arrest in other, distant jurisdictions. This happens when someone commits a crime, or skips a hearing, by leaving the jurisdiction where the offense occurred. If he leaves the state, it is hard to get the cops in the new jurisdiction to serve the warrant and extradite the accused back to where he is wanted, for whatever reason. An “anonymous” tip, here implied to be Det. Lance, lead the cops to find and arrest this guy.

    • John NYC says:

      “why wouldn’t she try legal means frist since she’s an ADA?”

      Because that wouldn’t have dealt with her rage at Sara’s death, which was her issue, not that a fellow AA member was being abused.

      I expect she and Nyssa will have some interesting conversations, or more.

      • Eve H says:

        You’re right! I was hoping to see Laurel become more of a kick ass ADA crime fighter. I think Oliver should train or send them some where to be train Laurel and Felicity so they able to protect themselves. Just being apart of Arrow’s team jeopardize their lives.

  21. Claire says:

    Tonights episode was good! Everyone was on task, well, except ONE, but that’s not surprising. Let me just say that THIS:
    .
    “Are we favor friends now? Are we friends?”
    .
    is NOT a “good question”, it’s not even worth asking. Not here for this, and pushing it.
    .
    Moving on … Thea rocks! Her relationship with Malcolm is so twisted, I am intrigued to see how it plays out. Can Roy and Oliver keep her from going dark? I am just super excited for Willah and really looking forward to seeing this story unfold. Also, Thea’s scenes with Oliver were excellent, I’ve always enjoyed their scenes and tonight reminded me why — just really well done.
    .
    John Diggle of course was excellent as always and I loved his scenes with Lyla and their baby. Will Argus get in the way of their future? I hope not, but I will say this show better not mess with his place on the Team.
    .
    Felicity, Felicity, Felicity, Oh wherefore art thou Felicity? All I know is that I missed her! I missed her in the field, I missed her with the Team, I missed her with Oliver. This show feels it when she is absent. But when she was present, she RULED it. Ray continues to grow on me—strictly as a catalyst for Felicity and Oliver—and yes bribery helps, especially in the form of a ginormous office and executive assistant for Felicity. I love the Flash (hint: ALL the cast is likable) so I will defo be tuning in to see Felicity dolled up and also in the field! Arrow on the other hand might be feeling my absence next week with Felicity not-that-present and IF someone else is TO MUCH. Hello DVR! If it’s more of the “others that count” to compensate for lack of Felicity, then I might just bite…
    .
    Even though Felicity was absent from Corto Maltese, I did enjoy the dynamic between the rest of the team—Oliver, Diggle and Roy. Roy is another that continues to grow on me, the writers are doing a good job handling his presence on the team, not too over the top with anything. Overall, good episode!

    • kath says:

      I missed her on Team Arrow too. I hope now that things are awkward between Oliver and her we’re not going to miss the great interactions that the Team had.

      • Claire says:

        I hope not either, but I think what they are doing with Oliver and Felicity is very smart. I want to see these two develop as individuals, especially Felicity. They writers appear to be developing the two as a couple as a very adult, mature couple—and THIS is what I like. If anything will cause interruptions with her Team Arrow work, I think it will be her new AWESOME job, but it better not—I felt her absence.

    • Frost says:

      Well what was wrong with the question? Laurel called in for a favor and Felicity was ok with helping her out.
      Just because she asked one question doesn’t determine admosity between them.
      Now you say that everyone was on task except one, I think I can speculate who you are refering to but her task was to find her sister’s killer or at least pick up where her sister left off. Which she seemed to be on task with so.
      I don’t get this obvious biasness that people have towards a character with her own arc.
      It’s really silly but. Whatever.

    • Joe Chief says:

      I could care less what AK and MG tweet out. What they tweet and what’s clearly ON the show are two different things. If they said Roy was a french ballerina and on the show he’s something else then what they tweet is irrelevant. But the facts are Laurel Lance was working team arrow this season. She even stated that she was in helping them bring sara’s killer to justice. Even in the next episode it seems like she plays a big part with team arrow. So yes she IS working with team arrow. Being part of the team? That’s debatable but certainly a team player.
      She wouldn’t be on the main cover if she had no affiliation with team arrow what so ever.
      So what the EP’s tweet is irrelevant.

    • Joe Chief says:

      It’s funny you say that about the flash cast now but the second a conflicting love interest occurs I’m wlling to bet you’ll change your tune. A lot of people didn’t have a problem with Laurel in season one but the second they introduced felicity as a love interest people started to slam.

      So you’ll excuse me If I don’t take these sentiments seriously right?

    • SmoakAndArrows says:

      When did the EP’s tweet that? Not that it matters though since EP’s tweet things all the time and then change it.

  22. Thea says:

    That Awkward moment when you name is actually Thea, and she uses your nickname that you were given a long time ago.. So weird!!

  23. Amy says:

    This episode was okay. Didnt like thea at first but she is growing on me. Laurel on the other hand not so much. Liked the fight between thea and merlyn.

    • Joe Chief says:

      Well until she proves to be detrimental to the ratings, looks like the series is stuck with her.

      For good reasons too.

  24. kate says:

    I liked watching thea and merlyn. Laurels scenes were just so hard to watch. Maybe its cos sara was believable as BC.

  25. Lies says:

    laurel was great to watch, you can really tell where her story is going. It is a good buildup and she deserves to get a chance, the writers must have saw something in her that we don’t see. She is the bc, deal with it. As for the episode itself loved oliver and thea, this show needs some more family bonding. I also hope that the writers are going to give oliver his normal life back, because him just being the arrow is a bit weird and boring.

  26. blackconvoy says:

    I enjoyed the episode. I know I’m in the minority here, but I like Laurel and glad to see her on the path to becoming Black Canary. And her debut as a vigilante reminded me of Kick-Ass.

  27. Shannon says:

    Wow, so much in this ep.

    -Malcolm and Thea: Admittedly this was what I was really wanting to see and I can’t wait to see more. I feel like Malcolm is taking up Hannibal Lecter’s mantle and becoming that bad guy that you are rooting for. I can’t wait to see what they do with this father/daughter combo.

    -John and Lyla: I’m with you Matt, alarms went off big time during that last scene between the two of them. She seemed distant and it seemed that Dig picked up on something.

    -Ray: I’m loving this character and Routh’s portrayal. The banter and interaction between him and Felicity is fantastic and I’m really looking forward to his story unfolding.

    -Laural: While I know she’s heading down her comic book path, I’m still having having a hard time finding it convincing. I’m also getting a bit annoyed with the deterioration of her relationship with her father. I hoping that all of this becomes more organic as the season progresses.

    Overall, I enjoyed it. I did feel like the A.R.G.U.S. story felt a little weak and rushed, but it seems pretty obvious that they are laying the foundation for a story to come later.

  28. brenna says:

    It was a good episode. Loved the Felicity office scenes, especially the phone calls/long story scene; Oliver’s hotel made weapons, so cool; Diggle was great; Oliver and Thea’s bond; Oliver was great in every scene. What I didn’t like is the lack of scenes for Oliver and Felicity. They has one tiny scene. I miss them.

  29. anna says:

    I am really missing Oliver/Diggle/Felicity action… Please let us have some…

  30. Sarah T. says:

    A solid episode. Not one of my favorites but I’ve never been a huge fan of Thea (mainly b/c her character seemed like a disposable one). I like her training with Malcolm and I’m looking forward to the expansion on that. It gives Thea more of a purpose.
    I’m not a huge Laurel fan either BUT I think they’re doing a good job of developing her story to becoming the BC. I thought her interactions with Oliver seemed more natural too. I definitely prefer them as friends.
    I liked the development in Felicity’s story line. I like her banter with Ray and agree that she has good chemistry with just about anybody (though to be fair to Routh, he’s excellent in his role too). I’m definitely looking forward to their relationship developing. I’m in favor of Oliver/Felicity but I think she needs to get out more and I think both characters need to ‘grow” a bit before they get together.
    Overall, I thought the writers made good use of the story developments.

  31. ANNA says:

    Great episode! I liked the story for every single character Oliver, Thea, Diggle, Roy and Felicity! Still not sold on Laurel as a super hero (or a DA for that matter, is it just me or did she look ridiculous with that badge around her neck?) and it seems like they’re rushing it too- it’s been one episode since Sara died. Every single interaction Laurel has with anyone she is stand-offish and snippy. I used to just think she was only that way with Oliver and her dad because of their baggage but she’s that way with Felicity and was like that with Wildcat on this episode and they just met. They write other female character as strong women without making them snippy and whiny, like Felicity, Sara, Moria and Thea 2.0 so I’ll never understand why Laurel is such a departure from the rest of the show.I know this will just get labeled as ‘laurel hate’ but it really does stink to like a show so much only to have one character constantly bringing it down. All of the other characters, male and female, are just fantastic can’t wait to see team Arrow next week and to really delve into this season’s plot!

    • I don’t know if it’s both the writing and KC’s delivery, or just the actress. But yeah, I often — almost always — feel like Laurel just hates everyone and it bleeds into the tone she uses to talk to people. Well, when not giving “I know you like I know my bones” speeches.

  32. ANON R says:

    Nyssa, burn down Starling City.

  33. Brigid says:

    Great episode! I’m loving this season so I’m not sure what others are hating except it seems to me that all you want is Oliver, Felicity and Diggle 24/7 and that would make the show a bad guy of the week, they resolve it and then the same every week after…boring! Personally it’s not what I want, It’s not what the writers want and it’s not what ALL of the fans want so please stop talking for me. Laurel is getting better every week, Thea was better and not a whiny brat and Malcolm Merlyn can knock me out with one smile. Loved the trip to Corto Maltese with the 3 guys and yes, I’m feeling something off with Lyla and Diggle’s relationship. Good stuff in this episode, I really enjoyed it.

  34. RD says:

    Does the black jacket Laurel wears magically turn hair BLOND? Am I the only one who noticed this hair color change? No one seems to be commenting on it.

    • Briggs says:

      I don’t think hair color or length gets remarked on unless it’s truly significant. Going blonde, in an age where a lot of people do, is not significant, in my mind. Yes, i know the Canary was blonde, but of all the changes the show has made, Katie Cassidy going blonde is probably not that remarkable.

    • No, hair dye magically turns you blonde, though.
      I’m hoping Arrow does not have to be the one to teach the world about Clairol.

  35. The show definitely ruined the momentum they were building with the Sara investigation by focusing on Thea/Laurel.

  36. Eve H says:

    Question:
    Now that he’s Lyla’s “Baby Daddy” Will Diggle land a great new job like Felicity or just remain Oliver’s driver/crime fighting side kick. Diggle is a “father” I hope to see his character evolves like the others.

  37. Eve H says:

    A Lazarus Pit has longevity, rejuvenation, and youth restoration properties. By bathing in a pit a person can have their wounds healed, the old are made young and the dead can be brought back to life.
    Besides Arrow’s team and Laurel knows about Sarah’s death and her burial. I’m wondering if Sarah will be resurrected or will Laurel put on the Canary blonde wig and try to take her place.

    • kath says:

      Doesn’t the Lazarus Pit make you go crazy? And Sara’s been dead a couple of weeks now.
      I think Laurel putting on the blonde wig is more likely.

  38. Ms Thing says:

    I am sick and tired of Felicity. I used to like the character in season 1 but now, I just find her annoying and self-righteous.

    • Weird. I have almost never seen her act self-righteous. She is occasionally written as annoying, but thankfully not too often.

      I think you’re describing Laurel perfectly, though. You know, the pill-popping drunk who thinks it’s OK to kill people cause she’s mad?

  39. “Are we favor friends now?” was by far my favorite moment of this episode.

    The other major thought I had watching this: boy, Laurel is sure lucky the guy who just finished kicking her ass drove the car forward, and not in reverse.

  40. Emmy says:

    I’m surprised not many people have made any comments about Thea’s choice of the name Mia…that paired with her nickname of Speedy, maybe she will still join Team Arrow.

    • Briggs says:

      That *did* slip by me, but I think it was just an Easter Egg, just like Dearden is an Easter Egg. But if she *does* join Team Arrow, I’d be thrilled. :) Keep it in the family.

  41. Briggs says:

    To Joe Chief and Frost – I’m not saying you aren’t entitled to your opinion. Really, I’m not. I just don’t think you’re entitled to cut and paste said opinion in response to everything kath has said in this thread. I have now had said cut-and-pastes hit my inbox two or three times in a row. I know you want to make yourself heard, but please stop that particular practice. It’s actually getting to where it’s detrimental to your argument to do so, because now people will simply not read them. if you feel your argument is not getting across, cut your losses and move on.