Supernatural Boss Talks Dean and Sam's 'Cold War,' Castiel's Angelic 'Burden' and More

Supernatural Season 9 SpoilersBrrr, is that a frost sweeping through Supernatural‘s Men of Letters bunker?

With Dean and Sam giving each other an epic cold shoulder lately, tensions are high between the Winchesters and neither is willing to budge, executive producer Jeremy Carver reveals below.

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But despite what seems like an irreparable rift, the EP has an optimistic outlook on the brothers’ bond, which is “even deeper than either of them would actually believe,” he says.

Carver also previews this Tuesday’s First Blade-centric episode (The CW, 9/8c), the upcoming trips into Men of Letters history and Castiel’s angelic conundrum.

TVLINE | The Men of Letters are very heavily involved in the next two episodes. What kind of role do they play?
What we love about the Men of Letters is the richness and the history. In [tonight's episode], we’re going to dive into a whole side of it that has essentially been secret until now. We’re going to get a real, hard look at the different types of people who were in the Men of Letters. We’re going to meet a real interesting character. [In next Tuesday's episode], we’re going to take a peek into the Men of Letters through the eyes of some folks we’ve already introduced, namely Henry Winchester and his colleague Josie. That’s going to be real interesting to see those two working together. So we’re seeing the Men of Letters through two vastly different perspectives, but both really rich and good.

TVLINE | Crowley is back this week, and he’s now addicted to human blood. Does that alter his relationship with Dean and Sam in any way?
Supernatural Season 9 SpoilersYou’ll see that it does. Ever since the end of last year when they started turning him human, we’ve seen different sides of Crowley. We’ve seen real unique interaction this year, particularly between Dean and Crowley, and largely as a result of Crowley’s blood addiction. We’re going to see even more shades of that coming up.

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TVLINE | What can you say about Dean and Sam’s mission with The First Blade?
We really don’t know what The First Blade is going to bring, right? What’s interesting about this episode is you’re going to see Dean come in contact with The First Blade for the first time. The story of the Mark of Cain and The First Blade will take off from there.

TVLINE | How does the Mark of Cain affect Dean? Is it an emotional and physical thing, or one or the other?
That’s all stuff we start exploring this week.

TVLINE | How would you classify Dean’s mindset going into this episode with this literal burden on his arm?
Dean, of course, has this mark, but there’s a more front-and-center [issue], which is that our boys are in a bit of a cold war here. They’re both smarting from some emotional attacks they’ve taken on each other. At the moment, neither is really willing to budge. They’re both trying to get the job done without letting their personal beef get in the way. But if anything is at the top of their minds, it would be that. That’s the elephant in the room.

Supernatural Season 9 SpoilersTVLINE | Dean and Sam have been spending a lot of time away from each other this season, going off on cases on their own. And even when they’re together, they’re separate in a way, because of that cold war. What kind of new aspects has that allowed you to explore with the characters?
The boys, for nine years, have been pretty much inseparable in that it’s always about each other. This year, we’ve started to explore – we’ve done it in the last couple years, I would say – this idea of Sam saying, “Dean, you’re afraid of being alone.” We’re really putting them in more instances of not just being alone, but with other people in their world.

You’ve seen Dean more with Crowley. You’ve seen Sam more with Castiel. They’re growing in a way that… finally they’re forced to go out on their own a little bit more, and they start to develop new friendships. They’re not in each other’s rice bowl, as it were, all the time. They’re starting to develop independent relationships. There’s a change going on. There’s a maturation. “Your friends don’t necessarily have to be my friends, etc.”

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TVLINE | Is there still hope for them to try to reach out to each other?
I don’t think there’s any question. These brothers can say things that cut very deep, but at the end of the day, you drill down far enough through the scar tissue, you’ve got two guys who do want to reach out to each other. We find ourselves in one of those situations of, who’s going to make the first move? Or what’s it going to take for that bridge to be crossed again? The bond of their relationship is even deeper than either of them would actually believe.

TVLINE | What is Castiel’s next step now that he has a following of sorts?
This goes back to that moment when Castiel decides to become an angel again. He’s jumping with both feet into the fire. What he wants most of all is to be a solider in this fight to take back Heaven. What a soldier means, he’s constantly re-examining that because he doesn’t want to fight the same way Bartholomew wanted to fight. He doesn’t want to kill angels in the way they’ve been killed. And he’s not certain he’s a leader, either. This is a guy who has done, arguably, more harm to angels than good and a guy who’s severely aware of his own limitations. This idea that angels might want to follow him, it’s a very, very heavy burden for him to grapple with. And we’ll see him continue to grapple with it.

TVLINE | Will the Dean-and-Sam mission and Cas’ storyline with the angel war start to intersect soon? Will they be brought back into each other’s realms?
We’ll see that, yes.

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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151 Comments
  1. alistaircrane says:

    I hope Season 10 tones down the angel mythology and brings back the Monster of the Week/folk lore episodes.

    • Gracy says:

      Boring….How many times can they do the same episode over and over?

    • Sarah says:

      I love the MOW thats what gets fans watching. I love the scare. The angels woooooo yea not scary at all boring! Bring back a big bad chasing the boys, the boys are never boring.

      • alistaircrane says:

        I agree. There is still so much unexplored folklore/urban legends for the show to mine. And if the CW gave SPN a bigger production budget, they could actually create monsters like the Wendigo again.

      • Given the steep ratings and reviewer scores given to MOTW episodes in recent years, I’d contest that while that may be what gets you watching, it’s clearly not something we can make a general statement of ‘this is why fans watch.’

        • Steep DROP in those scores, rather. MOTW episodes in recent years haven’t been as well received or as highly viewed, particularly this season when the MOTW episodes are so stand-alone that they don’t move the mytharc at all, really.

        • alistaircrane says:

          That’s the problem with this show. They’ve made it too much about the mythology and moved the show too far away from its supernatural, monster-of-the-week roots. The audience needs to be re-trained into loving the MOTW episodes again.

          • reboot2099 says:

            I understand you like MOTW episodes more, and that some people do. But there are a lot, maybe more, people who like the overall arc of a season even more.

            I started watching Supernatural because my girlfriend at the time watched it. I didn’t watch every episodes from seasons 1-3, because while I found the show ok, I didn t like the MOTW that much. My ex was the opposite (much like you) where she didn’t like the overall arc but prefered MOTW episodes.

            So when they started to go heavy with mythology, I got onboard for the long haul watching every episodes, even if the last few seasons have been a little more boring.

            So, and I am sure I am not the only one, I prefer boring mythology episodes than boring MOTW episodes, because at least in mythology, you get something out of those episodes, that makes it worth to watch it for the overall arc, whereas the MOTW episodes that are boring (and I do admit that some are good, especially the funny ones) are just that, boring, and if you miss it, you’re not missing anything except boredom :)

            But that’s just my humble opinion as a guy who reads comics (which are heavily serialized) and counts Buffy and Angel among his favorite shows ever :)

          • Lou says:

            No, the problem is that they stall the momentum of the mytharc with the boring MOTW episodes. They need to focus on the season long story arcs, make sure they hang together and flow well, and slot the MOTW into that overall structure. It’s a more difficult way to write a show than stand alone after stand alone but it’s way more rewarding to watch.

          • rowan77 says:

            So you want to take what is clearly working (the ratings war fantastic – for The CW – this season) and bag it in favor of something that no longer works. Have you learned nothing from seasons 6 & 7? The mythology has been working. They still have MOTW episodes, too, just not as the focus of the show. SPN has always had a story arc for each season, whether it was angel mythology based or not. You appear to have forgotten that.

        • Jones says:

          This show can’t sustain 23 episodes of mytharc. They can barely sustain half that many. MOTWs have been bread and butter since the pilot episode, they aren’t going to change it now. And the ratings are way up this year, so the MOTWs must be working for most normal viewers!

    • I agree, with more about the Men of Letters and Mark of Cain (really hoping that carries over into S10 for a bit). I’m pretty well over the angel storyline–how boring is yet another civil war between angels in suits? Supernatural used to be scary, I’d like to see that again and bureaucrat angels definitely isn’t it.

      Of course what I want most of all is Sam and Dean back. I don’t really like the idea of them growing apart emotionally–let them have friends, sure, but why does it have to be separate? idk that whole idea just sounds like an excuse to have them working separately and not on screen together, tho maybe that’s just my disgust with what Carver has done to their formerly amazing relationship talking. Sad that Carver has taken something so beautiful and destroyed it so he can replace it with the kind of run-of-the-mill bromance I can see pretty much anywhere on TV. Supernatural used to be unique and special, and Carver seems determined to kill that.

      • Kate says:

        “Sad that Carver has taken something so beautiful and destroyed it ”
        No, actually Dean thinking he is nothing in comparison to Sam isn’t at all beautiful.

        • Maedbh says:

          And Sam thinks he is nothing in comparison to Dean, or anyone. We saw that in season 5. We also saw it in season 8 when Sam was willing to die so as to ‘not let Dean down’. Hopefully, now that they find friends outside of each other (though I’m not sure if Sam and Dean’s relationship could be classified as ‘friends’ these past two seasons) they’ll both find some worth and a proper relationship built on trust can come from that.

        • “I mean, you’re going to hell and you won’t lift a finger to stop it. Talk about low self-esteem. Then again… I guess it’s not much of a life worth saving, now is it? … I mean, after all, you’ve got nothing outside of Sam. You ARE nothing. You’re as mindless and obedient as an attack dog.”

          “That -That’s not true.”

          “No? What are the things that you want? What are the things that you DREAM? I mean, your car? That’s Dad’s. Your favorite leather jacket? Dad’s. Your music? Dad’s. Do you even have an original thought? No. No, all there is is, “Watch out for Sammy. Look out for your little brother, boy!” You can still hear your Dad’s voice in your head, can’t you? Clear as a bell.”

          “Just shut up.”

          “I mean, think about it … all he ever did is train you, boss you around. But Sam …. Sam he doted on. Sam, he loved.”

          “I mean it. I’m getting angry.”

          “Dad knew who you really were. A good soldier and nothing else. Daddy’s blunt little instrument. Your own father didn’t care whether you lived or died. Why should YOU?”

          —-

          I say, let Dean have a dream outside of his brother and his family. Let him have a sense of self; because this is something that HAUNTS him. Something that he needs. Dean’s lack of self worth just kills me and for him, that’s tied up in his identity enough that the scariest thing in his dreams was himself, pointing it out.

          I want them to grow–I don’t want them to grow APART, despite the accusations. I want them to be allowed individuality, relationships outside of each other, and have them as equal partners by mutual choice and respect.

          • Sarah says:

            Theres also tons of canon of the boys and other characters saying that the Winchester bros together can do anything, defeat anybody. And that they make each other human and share the load of the crap they have to carry. Carver said they mean more to each other than even they know. They are soulmates in heaven as down on earth. The brother story is so compelling because they make each other better people. They would be long dead if they didn’t have each other and so would alot of other people.

            The bros have always had others to help them on their way and hinder them aswell. But the one thing that gets them through things and makes things better is each other. They are mad because they can be mad at each other and angry and say things that the other doesn’t like. They know each other that well but they have chosen already and many other times to stay together, that is nothiing new. And they will continue to do so. I’m glad Carver is getting back to the Kripke way of the brothers because they’ve always had others in their lives but recently they seem to be only stuck with one, they need to expand and move on to other people together.

          • When I say marry this post, I mean the one by exorcising emily – damn comments section!

        • Susan says:

          This is what this kind of “fans” find beautiful.

        • jason says:

          I will have to agree. The relationship I want is for both to feel equal in self worth. I think they started playing with this conflict bro thing since S4 and it snowed ball out of control. There’s no balance there anymore. We have drama and drama for the sake of it now. I for one don’t mind Sam and Dean having friends, but I do mind if I turn on the TV to watch the show every week in they both doing whatever on their own. I wan’t my bro team back.

          • Brax says:

            IA This is a brothers show I don’t know why it would suddenly become an ensemble and be about other relationships? Its supposed to be a travelling road show with MOW and mytharcs and things that go bump in the night with the story of Sam and Dean Winchester.

            Not some soapy, relationship show with the boys having other people to relate to just because its natural. They aren’t in a natural world, they are a team, a buddy cop team if you will that happen to be the closest of brothers. And that closeness is what keeps them alive today. Its a show about pure and utter devotion.

      • Jim Michaels says:

        Grow up!

        • jason says:

          Oh I have words with you Jim Micheals. In im so glad hes not running the show cause It would be worst believe it or not.

        • ROFLMAO says:

          ROFLMAO the best part of Vegas con was knowing he sneered at Kelios and her bros-only wincest teeshirt and told her to grow up! :P

          • Kara says:

            I am embarrassed for you. This comment makes Sam and Deans chilish bickering look mature by comparison. Stay classy fandom always sinking to a new low.

        • Ginny says:

          To Jim Michaels there is only one thing to say. Regardless of your personal opinion of any fan’s shirt or views expressed publicly, you are representing the management of the show when you speak or write in a public forum while you are a member of the management of the show. What you have done, shaming a fan of your show over her opinion, is a removable offense in most responsible professions. Please attempt to act as a professional when you are in public settings and do not embarrass yourself or the corporate entities who own and run SPN. To attack a fan publicly for any reason is irresponsible and you should apologize. Fans of all beliefs pay for your show and your job.

        • Lituch says:

          Why talented people like Kripke left the show? And people like you stay? You have no idea what SPN about and why people love this show. And telling someone to grow up? Go and do your homework. You’re a bad specialist.

      • Hannah says:

        I for one am thrilled that Carver has taken the boring, nonstop toxic codependency and is allowing Dean and Sam to grow up and act more like the 30 year old men they are. I’m looking forward to seeing this story continue to unfold in S10. But mostly I just want to see Cas part of the story. I miss his Profound bonding moments with Dean and I hope as each of the boys continue toward their unique destiny, that they will also continue their strong Team Free Will bond.

        Thank you Jeremy for an exciting storyline and all I ask is more Cas in Season 10 and more Cas in Dean and Sam’s lives. I hope Cas chooses to become Human again as we didn’t see nearly enough of that storyline.

        • “I hope Cas chooses to become Human again as we didn’t see nearly enough of that storyline.”

          This is actually the only reason I can fathom for why we got so little of graceless!Cas’ journey in the first part of S9. I was excited for that, and then for it to be rushed through like it was? disheartening. So…from your lips to Carver’s whiteboard.

        • JJ says:

          How does a 30-year old man act though? There is NO right way a person should act or behave simply because they are a certain age.

          Sam & Dean have a very tragic, complex history together – it is a relationship that no normal siblings could ever relate to – the two have literally been to war together – of course their relationship is not going to fit in some “normalized” box.

          Sam & Dean will always be tied & tethered to each other. And that is not a BAD thing. As Dean once said, Sam & Dean keep each other human.

      • Vanessa says:

        Psssst, kelios, the brothers aren’t going to sleep together. Jared and Jensen don’t either. ;)

        • Julia says:

          Wtf the only one talking about anyone sleeping together here is you. Go back to writing your fan fic and let the rest of us discuss the actual show.

          • While I don’t agree with ship shaming out of context, I will argue that ships were brought up prior to that post, and completely out of context too.

            “Independent relationships = Dean suddenly being gay for Cas to the person you’re responding to”
            Comment by Jones – March 18, 2014 08:24 AM PDT

            So, no. People ARE talking ships here. And ARE attempting to bring that into play in unrelated comments. Looks like the Destiel ship shaming began first, now it’s just the ships exchanging potshots.

            I’m not going to give a ‘can’t we all just get along’ speech; we’re pretty divided of a fandom. But I don’t like the ‘go write your fanfic and let us discuss the ACTUAL SHOW’ because all you’re doing is what Jones did before you, Julia, and what you’re complaining about from Vanessa.

            Dismissing a ship and its fans.

            We all love SPN, if for different reasons. Pretty sure we’re all discussing the show.

          • Julia says:

            Emily by the length and tone of your comment, I’m guessing you do like the sound of your own voice.

            As to we all love the show for different reasons, that’s a given. But I doubt all of us here love the show as is, as opposed to the show they wish they were watching.

            As to your comment about ship shaming, again I’ll say you are the one bringing it up, I’m really not interested. You want to discuss the show as discussed in the article fantastic, I’m in. You want to discuss subtext and ‘ships’ I’d rather leave that to fan fic and fanon fodder.

          • Laura says:

            @juliajewels/dragonbornsamwinchester, haven’t you got a destiew hate tag to maintain over on tumblr?

          • Julia says:

            Laura I’m not sure who you think I am, but the fact that you even seem interested creeps me out. I don’t know who you are and I don’t know who you are, leave it at that. Stop stalking people, maybe you are the one spending too much time on tumblr.

      • NotTheSame says:

        “Sad that Carver has taken something so beautiful and destroyed it”

        Actually, you can pretty much thank Sera Gamble for that. She was a great writer, but easily one of the most inept showrunners ever and poor Carver has done all that he could to repair the damage and clean up the stinky mess she left behind from her not-brief-enough reign.

    • Susan says:

      Monster of the Week episodes are really boring.

      • Jake says:

        They make the show, they are the best part of Supernatural.

        • Susan says:

          Only because they are your favourite part it doesn’t mean they are less boring.

          • alistaircrane says:

            In your opinion, Susan. Many fans love and miss the Monster of the Week episodes. The first three seasons were the best. Introducing the angels in Season 4 changed the dynamic of the show for the worst.

        • alistaircrane says:

          Agreed. Those episodes were never boring. Each episode was scary and entertaining. An episode of Supernatural was like a mini horror movie. I want that back.

          • Laura says:

            In your opinion, alistaircrane.

          • alistaircrane says:

            It’s not an opinion, Susan, it’s a fact.

          • reboot2099 says:

            You are entitled to your opinion, but you have to admit it IS your opinion and not fact. Others might like the show as much as you do, just for different reasons. (see my longer post above)

            The fact here, is that earlier episodes were more done-in-one, MOTW episodes, and, as you put it, mini-horror movies. But my opinion differs from yours in that I didn’t like most of them as much as I like mythology arcs.

          • Laura says:

            No that really is your opinion.

    • yeah…. like the first 3 seasons again, and again and again. Definitely, something that people do not see at all. And some of the comments were about big bad and monsters etc. But how come they can not be in the plot together with some angels? I will never understand people who are against almost any other character in the plot besides brothers. I think it is really childish. And that is what behind some of the comments here. And also, i do think that watching this show about some regular monsters of the week after 9 years and after what all the characters have been through – is watching regression of it actually. Would be weird to see this after apocalypse, attempt to close the gates of Hell and falling of the angels .

    • Ari says:

      I don’t. I think SPN has a perfect mix of heavy myhtology and MOW episodes. I think too many MOW get boring when they are strung together.

    • wow201102 says:

      I don’t understand why it has to be an either/or scenario. Back when the angels were first introduced, there were still plenty of folklore-inspired MOTW eps to go around, and the angels, themselves, were much more menacing. Frankly, even before the angels came into play, the major villains of the series were Judeo-Christian-based (Azazel, Lilith), which is why they were able to be woven into the narrative so seamlessly in the first place. So I don’t see why everyone acts as if the two things are so mutually exclusive.

      You can have an interesting mytharc *and* entertaining MOTW eps. You can have biblical-scale plots *and* urban legend-style cases. The world has an endless supply of both to choose from.

    • Lou says:

      I hope you’re wrong. The MOTW episodes have gotten so lame and boring that I have begun to skip them. The mythology with Cas/the angels and the Mark of Cain/Dean is the only thing that keeps me tuning in.

    • rowan77 says:

      When they do that (see seasons 6 & 7) the ratings go down. Obviously the mythology works for the show.

  2. Clare says:

    Cas is the reason I watch (Newsflash: people are allowed to watch for Cas) and I’m missing him and his bond with Dean (newsflash: people are allowed to watch for that too). The boring, repetitive, toxic brother bond does not interest me at all nowadays (newsflash: people are allowed to be repelled by codependency). I really hope the last few episodes bring Dean and Cas back together, and that we see a lot more of Cas in S10.

    • The only slither of hope I have about what they are doing with the brothers is that they are reopening the old wound to heal it once and for all, end the co-dependency for good.

      • Maedbh says:

        While the show is on the air, I don’t think the co-dependency will ever be ended for good. They might be trying to fix it now but if the show is renewed again then issues in their relationship will come to the fore again. It’s the relationship that gets the column inches from the fans, so while they are talking about it, even if they are at odds about it, then it will remain.

        At this stage, I’d settle for Dean not considering himself as Sam’s caregiver any more and Sam realising than he’s more than just the baby brother, eternal screw up role Dean has assigned to him. That would show development of character for both Sam and Dean.

    • Tracy says:

      -I really hope the last few episodes bring Dean and Cas back together, and that we see a lot more of Cas in S10.-

      YES PLEASE! I find it really boring when it’s just the brothers, tbqh.

      • Marie says:

        I hope to see the development of Dean’s Mark of Cain plot in S9. Dean has been the righteous man throughout the seasons but he has every conditions to be the successor of Cain – sacrifices, rejected devotions, anger and frustrations etc .

      • This is the kind of fan that makes me worry for the future of #Supernatural, because they have no emotional investment, beyond their fanning of one character. I can’t understand how anyone can call themselves a fan of the show.

        Maybe they started watching because they saw some pretty edits or funny gifs on Tumblr and tuned in, but they really have no idea what kind of show they’re watching. If you’re a fan of the show, you’d never say “I find it really boring when it’s just the brothers” because you’re emotionally invested in these brothers, the mythology, etc.

        You’d know the show revolves around the brothers with a host of side characters who help push along the story. Cas is a supporting character to the main narrative. Watching only episodes with him in it missed the point of the show and honestly, how is that being a fan? IDGI

        This person is a fan of Castiel. Not a fan of Supernatural.

        • Vanessa says:

          Pssst, Denise, the brothers aren’t going to sleep together. J2 don’t sleep together either.

        • Laura says:

          Will never stop laughing at fans who think other fans should be watching for the same reasons they are. There aren’t fandom ~rules, and you aren’t the fandom police.

        • wow201102 says:

          Denise, I cannot speak for Tracy here (the way you presume to), but I can say, for myself, that I’ve been watching this show since the pilot, and I *also* love Cas and would like to see more of him in season 10 and beyond, should the series go that far.

          It might also surprise you to know that most of the people who have discovered the show through Tumblr used a genius device called Netflix to watch the *entire* series from the beginning. Isn’t that incredible?

          The fandom and show will be perfectly fine with these people around, as it has been for years now. My advice to you is to save whatever energy you’ve wasted worrying about them and put it toward something more productive instead.

        • Ginny says:

          Thank you! I get so tired of the fans who found out about SPN from Tumblr gifs and are even proud of the fact that they haven’t, and won’t, watch S1-S3. They have missed so much SPN history and the development of the core of the show, the brothers’ relationship. By now it has become clear that the commenters writing about Dean growing up and moving on to new people, other than Sam, are actually desirous of Dean moving on to a relationship with Cas. A small, vocal group who have come to the show lately and missed the rich history of SPN.

    • Jones says:

      You mean the boring, repetitive toxic brother bond that is, per Carver, “even deeper than either of them would actually believe”. That bond?

  3. Thanks for asking about Dean and the Mark of Cain, such a nice change to see Carver talking about Dean for a change. Hope that this story doesn’t come to an abrupt end or that it then leads to something more in season 10. There aren’t that many episodes left so I hope that this continues on into next year somehow.

    • Tracy says:

      THIS! It’s amazing to be excited about Dean’s storyline after so long without anything more than him worrying about Sam. :)

    • Ally says:

      The Mark of Cain is one of the most interesting and original ideas in many seasons, and there’s so much storyline potential. I’m so excited to have a storyline that finally places a bit more focus on Dean and HIS inner demons, instead of always shoving his issues aside to deal with the crises of those around him. Please don’t make me regret getting my hopes up, Carver!

      • Exactly, it would be so nice to see Dean’s inner demons connect with the mytharc via a personal story/destiny for Dean, and hopefully it’ll lead to more character growth..and bonus points will be given if Carver and the writers have the rest of Team Free Will spend some time thinking and worrying about Dean, which is nothing else will show how much Dean means to them and how much Dean is worth, how important he is.

  4. Tracy says:

    I’m so happy Dean has a storyline at last and I’m hoping really hard it won’t get taken away and given to Sam like it always has before. I’m worried for Cas though and hoping that they can all be there for each other when the bad stuff hits the fan. AND MORE CAS PLEASE IN SEASON 10! :)

  5. Sarah says:

    Loving how the season is panning out. Love that the brothers are focused on as part of the story this time around. I love when its personal to them. I just hope Sam gets to save Dean this time around, they both deserve it.

  6. I love the recent comments about growth in the boys relationship with each other, and developing relationships OUTSIDE of each other. I have always loved the tagline that Family Don’t End With Blood, and it’s been hard to watch Supernatural kill off beloved characters to keep the Winchesters separate from any other relationship.

    So I find this very hopeful, even if it’s painful to watch the boys fighting (…again!) to get there, the interviews and comments lead me to hope that this time it’s GOING somewhere, that these fights will lead to real change and growth for the characters.

    Thank you for the article, and the interview! Excited to see what’s up next for the Mark of Cain, and how they’re going to fight back! Also can’t wait until they bring these various storylines together

  7. Kate says:

    “They’re starting to develop independent relationships. ”

    Oh, please, please, *please* let this be the plan going forward. I need to see the brothers being independent *men* with relationships outside of each other. Please let this storyline be a genuine plan to progress their bond from misery and duty towards respect and love, because it has become so unbelievably tedious to watch the same dynamic play out over and over again, and as a Deanfan I would like to see my favorite character think he has more worth than what he can do for his brother. And like a couple of other commenters have said, I’m disappointed that we haven’t seen more Dean-Cas interaction this season and would hope that changes up for S10.

  8. MC says:

    It’s so great to finally get a dean-centric storyline that is actually about Dean. Jensen is knocking it out of the park. He always does not matter how secondarily his character is treated, but this season, he has been spectacular. As for the brotherly bond, I hope that Sam finally learns to appreciate Dean and everything he has sacrificed for him. The relationship has been flowing one-way for far too long with Dean giving and Sam taking. Time for Sam to man up and be there for his brother or just take a hike so that they can both get on with their lives. In other words, put up or shut up Sam. The only thing I am missing this year is the Dean/Cas interaction. I really hope that the writers give us a Cas who notices that something is up with Dean and wants to help him rather than condemn him the way Sam is doing. I think Dean has earned that from Cas over the years.

    Having said that, I am adoring Dean’s twisted relationship with Crowley. Jensen and Mark Shepherd are just so much fun together. It, along with the Abbadean chemistry have been the high points of the season so far.

  9. Psyched that the Mark of Cain storyline is about to get more exciting! I love Dean having such an interesting arc this year. It sucks to see him sad — and especially separated from Cas — but it will be worth it in the end if he comes out the other side a more mature, healthier, and ultimately happier person. Sam is really holding his ground this time so I think the brothers fighting will come to a resolution that isn’t just repeating their past mistakes. I love getting Cas-centric episodes this season too. I just wish we had more Team Free Will and Dean/Cas time!

    • Sarah says:

      Whats Dean/Cas time mean? Why do they need time?

      • Kate says:

        Sit down and take a deep breath. Is there someone nearby who can get you medical attention if needed? Okay. Brace yourself. Believe it or not, there are a whole lot of fans who like seeing Dean and Cas interact together. A lot of us even prefer that onscreen dynamic to the tedious angst-fest the brothers have become. And as viewers of the show, and consumers of a product, and contributors to the ratings, we are just entitled as you are to ask for what we’d like to see more of.

      • Jones says:

        Independent relationships = Dean suddenly being gay for Cas to the person you’re responding to

  10. Mare says:

    Thanks so much for asking about Dean’s Mark story!! I am soooo very excited about this story and can’t wait to see what it brings for Dean! Jensen is going to knock it out of the park!!! It will be awesome to watch him as he delves more into Dean’s psyche!! I’m glad to see the toxicity of the brother relationship addressed but I really hope they address the horribly condemning things Sam said to Dean. Because at this point, I have no desire to see Dean reunited with the brother he sacrificed so much for, who believes he’s a worthless, selfish coward who does more harm than good.

    Bring on more Dean and Castiel tho, I agree!! Dean needs a positive, supportive person in his life, who cares about him and who will try and save him when he’s drowning, rather than just stand there and push him down!

  11. Kay says:

    “They’re growing in a way that… finally they’re forced to go out on their own a little bit more, and they start to develop new friendships. They’re not in each other’s rice bowl, as it were, all the time. They’re starting to develop independent relationships. There’s a change going on. There’s a maturation. “Your friends don’t necessarily have to be my friends, etc.”
    I hope this goes forward to a logical conclusion and not get retracted as what happened in Season 6 after the end of Season 5. Otherwise sitting through this drama between Sam and Dean and not getting any payback gets old really fast.

  12. chriscross says:

    I’ve waited so long for Dean to finally become front and centre of the story. It’s been all about Sam for way too long. And now that Dark Dean is let loose things should really heat up. Watch out Abaddon and Crowley, Dean Winchester is on your tail!!! Hope they take the Mark of Cain over to season 10. I enjoy the balance of overall arc vs. stand alone episodes. Except for Ghostfacers episode, I’m loving season 9. Nice to see Cas interacting with others, but never want him human again.

  13. Am incredibly excited for the Mark of Cain story and how this is really digging in to Dean’s character. The brothers both have a lot of lingering and deep-seeded issues and I think for both Dean and Sam’s sake, and for the bond, there’s a painful necessary process happening here. It can’t continue the way it always has. Good to hear that Castiel’s story will intersect with the Winchesters’ again soon. I’m excited about Castiel’s journey and struggle to learn from his past mistakes, and being the reluctant leader. I get why the storylines need to be separate right now for emotional arc reasons, but hoping to see him back with Dean and Sam soon. And some more Dean and Cas scenes, I love their dynamic. It’s interesting that Dean is on such a dark path and his best friend is off somewhere else, because Cas has been a supportive presence.

    I really like the approach here that Sam and Dean are, and can be, different people with different goals, and that doesn’t mean the bond between them won’t endure. Hope this plays out as promisingly as it sounds and the reconciliation isn’t a backslide, but a step forward and a strengthening of the bond.

  14. Cathy says:

    Finally, a slightly more Dean-centric storyline! Thank you so much for asking about Dean and the Mark of Cain. Many of the Dean fans have been so nervous about this storyline being dropped or not given focus, as many of his storylines have in the past, and it’s a relief to hear anything about it from the showrunners. The second half of the season has been exciting and action-packed, and Jensen has been knocking it out of the park every episode. Looking forward to the rest of the season!

  15. Aki says:

    Gosh, do I hope Cas and the Winchesters, particularly Cas and Dean, will meet again soon. Although “soon” probably means episode 21 at the earliest. Better than nothing, but it still sucks big time. I hate this constant separation. That said: Dean’s storyline sounds good. It’s about time he goes a little darkside. Sam and Cas already went down that route and now it’s Dean’s turn. That said, I hope Cas’ll finally get a chance to make things right with his siblings. I really like the angels, but it’s a shame that so much of their storyline is basically just them fighting and killing each other, with Cas being the only one that not only has a personality in the first place, but also a personality that goes beyond being a “*** with wings”. I also wish Cas had been given the chance to form some new friendships. If I can’t get him with the Winchesters then I want him to have a close bond with someone else at least. Right now as far at friendships go it’s already a win if somebody doesn’t want to kill him. I don’t know, I don’t hate this season, but as a Casfan and a fan of his and Dean’s relationship I’m not really happy with it either. I hope next season will be better, with lots more Cas.

  16. Ahoy says:

    I miss the close relationship between the brothers. Carver took it all away and it doesn’t look like he’s going to bring it back. So sad that he transformed their relationship and show into what it’s now. I’ll forever miss the true Supernatural.

  17. Gerry says:

    I hope the brothers’ fighting has a real pay off, because it’s not fun to watch. Sam and Dean’s bond has always been portrayed as a multi-faceted relationship because that’s what relationships are like. Love does make you vulnerable, but it also makes you strong. Knowing someone really well means you have boundary issues, but it also means you can see through the crap to what’s important. Sam and Dean’s bond is what the bad guys have never been able to control or break and it’s given Sam and Dean strength to go on when there’s little hope. Fortunately, it does seem Carver recognizes the value of that bond. I think he’s just trying to mix it up a little in terms of who the boys work with.

    I have enjoyed seeing Sam with Cas and Dean with Crowley. Different dynamics bring energy. Carver’s not wrong there. But I still need to know Sam and Dean recognize what they mean to each other and their bond is still their source of strength. I suspect that is where the story is heading.

  18. Tiggy says:

    Well, maybe I’m blind, but I don’t see any maturation or growing independent relationships (Crowley, really?), I see only boiling in hurting (for Sam and Dean, not Cas). I thought season 8 was really about that (Amelia and Benny, and where they are…)
    Anyway, hurray to Dean-centric storyline))

  19. Dan says:

    LOL at the use of the word “maturation”. Oh, Carver, if you really think that the brothers are acting more mature, I think you need to know the real meaning of the word.

  20. Eva says:

    I started watching for the brothers and their bond. I’m still loyal because of them and Jared and Jensen. If the bond is taken away and the brothers are just normal brothers, it’ll be like so many other shows with siblings, nothing special about it.

    • Carolyn says:

      Couldn’t agree more Eva. I began watching because of the very “special” brotherly dynamic. And considering how much Sam is allowed to develop any bonds with other characters I have my doubts that plan will work. Amanda is a prime example of how totally separating the bros story backfired. It failed miserably.

      I also find the “angel wars” boring and tedious and am hoping we soon see an end to those. I do so miss the “scary” that used to be SPN. I enjoy the Monster of the Week episodes. I’m looking forward to more MOL and the Mark of Cain story lines as well.

      • Carolyn says:

        Sorry, correction…I meant Amelia.

      • Eva says:

        Agreed. First half of last season was a complete fail in my opinion. It’s a pity a fresh and new story like the Men Of Letters isn’t explored more. It’s something that connects with the brothers’ own story while the angels and their civil wars don’t.

  21. Jones says:

    Didn’t Carver talk up independent relationships and maturity last season, too? Where are Amelia and Benny now, huh? lol

    • Dan says:

      It’s a work in progress. He even said so before. Problem is that he sucks at it.

      • Sara says:

        Heh. Too true. But maybe he’ll get it right this time if he doesn’t make Dean the scapegoat as regards everything that’s ALWAYS been wrong within this brother relationship and that neither Kripke or Gamble could ever see. I had my doubts after S8, but maybe Carver has finally seen the light. Still, since S5, it’s been in the execution of their alleged storytelling that they’ve messed up the most. Hope that they will turn it around this time.

        I’m extremely excited the MoC sl. Can’t wait to see Mr. Ackles take on something different on this show. Finally. Woo Hoo!

    • That is something that really makes me take all the talk about the boys growing and becoming the stronger for it with a grain of salt. I DO think the boys need other people in their lives, they can have that, and still love each other and have a deep bond. But Dean and Benny clearly had a very strong relationship – one that helped him survive a year in Purgatory without completely going darkside and losing his humanity – and yet this season it’s like he never existed at all. Even in eps where it would seem to make sense for him to be referenced – how do you debate whether monsters can be good without mentioning the one you fought alongside with for a year? who gave his life to save your brother? So long as the Winchesters have this out of sight, out of mind thing mentality happening with everyone else (including Cas), I just have to wonder. Putting other people in their lives is all well and good, but their insular thinking (and that of the writers) has to change too.

      • Gerry says:

        So very true about Benny. Last season, also with a “maturity” theme according to Carver, did not allow Dean to have Benny in his life, and yet for some reason, Sam’s reaction to Benny is not being discussed now, either in terms of being an example of a monster not being evil by definition or in terms of Sam’s own complicity in Dean’s focus on him. Not sure how Sam telling Dean the price of the two of them working together is getting rid of Benny fits into Sam’s current mindset. Hopefully, this arc will actually examine the complexity of Sam and Dean. And in the end, why they are better together than apart. I do think Carver’s interview strongly hints the boys will realize the value of their bond and that Cas will help them to do so. But it would help if the journey there made emotional and logical sense.

        • Hear, hear! Dean’s been getting a lot of the blame for the condition of the boys’ relationship with the “selfish” choices he’s made, but their codependency has been a two way street for a long time now and Sam’s made his share of problematic choices where Dean is concerned too. I hope the resolution of this storyline has them both taking responsibility for the roles they’ve played.

  22. I’m really glad Carver is finally addressing the toxic codependency between the brothers and doing something about it. We all love the brothers but it’s sad watching Dean thinking he’s nothing without Sam. Ending this toxic relationship doesn’t mean they don’t love each other any more and they’re not brothers (so you can stop worrying about that so much, come on).
    Also, I believe supernatural has moved on from the MOW theme and has gone way deeper for many seasons now and it’s what makes it even better. Adding the MOL and now the MOC story makes it more interesting, mysterious, and gives the brothers something new. Having the brothers going only through killing demons and ghosts every week will make it boring eventually. Now they have a purpose.
    As for Cas, it’s awesome that he finally has his own story line, but we all miss some good old badass Team Free Will together. The Angel war is something very interesting, it has always been, we’re learning new stuff about them, and we can create a bigger image about those beings. But having Cas as a leader again, I don’t think it will turn out good, it didn’t the last time. Then again, who doesn’t love badass Cas! Personally I want to see Cas kicking ass, and helping Dean going through this darkness. Their (profound) bond is what keeps a lot of viewers and is something of the most beautiful things on TV. So I hope to see Cas sorting out his stuff and then getting back together with the Winchesters. Both Sam and Dean need him, Sam needs a friend (and let me add that their bonding this season is just beautiful), Dean needs his angel. And this trio makes this show what it is.

  23. Kara says:

    Carver if by mature you mean childish than I agree. Mature people you know actually talk through their issues, they listen to one another and hash it out. That is the opposite of where Sam and Dean are now literally slamming doors on one another. Ugh.

    That said yes please to some bamf Dean getting his Moc story line! Please let this be about Dean and exploring his darkness. Please also let this be about Sam saving Dean for once, I need this finally after nine seasons!

    And yes to more Dean and Crowley scenes, their snark is hilarious and endlessly entertaining.

    And yes to more Sam and Cas, finally their friendships is being explored. I say we need about 100 more Cas and Sam episodes to make up for years of Dean Cas tedious fan service. :/. Give us non shippers something to look forward to.

    • “And yes to more Sam and Cas, finally their friendships is being explored. I say we need about 100 more Cas and Sam episodes”

      I could not agree with this part of the above sentiment more. I was disappointed to hear Jared say at VegasCon that he thought the relationship between Sam and Cas would always be strained because of Sam’s actions in S4. Sam and Cas have BOTH made really bad mistakes, which have hurt a lot of people, and Cas has hurt Sam, and Sam has forgiven him, and all of those things are reasons why Sam and Cas should have a stronger relationship than we’ve seen in recent years on this show. While Dean and Cas have literally been to hell and purgatory and back, Sam and Cas are also friends who have been through a lot together. The show would do well to remember that more often.

    • mia says:

      ??? WTH are you talking about? The relationship between Dean and Cas is not a fanservice just because YOU don’t like it. They’ve had a connection and an amazing chemistry since the moment they’ve met and through all these years they’ve developped a profound bond that many fans adore. This is actually one of the most organically and believably developped relationships on tv. Btw you’re allowed to have special friends that you don’t share with your siblings, you know. It seems to me that you have an agenda and only want Cas to interact with Sam so that he doesn’t distract Dean from revolving around his precious little brother.
      On a different note, bring on badass Dean and MoC stotyline. Jensen will nail it!

      • Kara says:

        Actually my only agenda is to enjoy the show I already love. Yeah how dare I voice my opinion that I prefer Sam and Cas’s friendship, fandom police must be on alert. Ugh.

        Now you are free to your differing opinion, just please take it elsewhere as I could care less.

        • mia says:

          Nowhere did I state that there’s anything wrong with liking Sam and Cas frienship better. It’s the fact that you insulted the relationship between Dean and Cas by calling it a “tedious fan service” I have a problem with. It’s not that hard to express your preferences without slamming things that other people enjoy and coming off as a douchebag.

  24. I started off watching Supernatural for the angels, and I kept watching for Cas, and even I think that the show has badly bungled the angel storyline this year, because I have been bored, bored, bored to the point that I’m sitting things out until the end of the year. It’s a shame because I think Castiel is a really fascinating character. Hopefully the Heaven storyline will be revitalized in the final stretch of the season, by its intersection with Sam and Dean’s storylines. The show is more interesting to me when we have Team Free Will together, not apart, or at each other’s throats. I get that this is the middle part of a three year story arc, and that all three of them have crap to work out, so I can only hope that where we’re headed in S10 is a season of much more substantial Sam, Cas, and Dean working *together*, with darker MOTW eps (the show used to do these so much better – what happened?) and a compelling season arc that involves all three of the boys.

    • JJ says:

      I’m really getting tired of Team Free Will posts. I love Cas, I do, but he should never be written to be on the same level as Sam & Dean. It will never (and should never) be Sam, Dean & Cas hanging out in the bunker all the time, or Sam, Dean & Cas driving around in the Impala working cases together.

      While Cas is essential part of the SPN world (no one will argue he is not), SPN is not his story. Cas is a significant part of the SPN story, but SPN *is* Sam & Dean’s story alone.

      I don’t see Cas as more essential than any other character outside of Sam & Dean. Cas is on the same level as Bobby, Ellen, Jo, Crowley, Lisa – all GREATLY enrich the SPN world, however, SPN is grounded in the brother’s story.

      Everyone is allowed & entitled to watch SPN for their own reasons. You watch for Cas & angels, great. But you need to have the realistic expectation that Cas will never be together with the brothers like Sam & Dean are together.

      It would change the entire dynamic of the show. SPN is about a duo, not a trio. SPN just cannot alter that, no matter how much you love the Cas character.

      • Laura says:

        If everyone is allowed and entitled to watch SPN for their own reasons then we don’t have to subscribe to what you consider realistic expectations. Sheesh. o_O

      • wow201102 says:

        And yet, Bobby was around plenty before he died….and even though he wasn’t always literally *with* the boys on hunts, they were always working *together* toward a common goal, rather than him having one storyline to pursue while the boys had another. Likewise, while the boys spent many a night in motels, they also spent a great deal at Bobby’s house as a home base of sorts. Cas would be there too when necessary. I don’t get why having similar powwows in the bunker is so utterly unthinkable for people. Or why the idea of them all sharing one storyline, instead of each of the three needing to have their own (thereby making for more complicated, disjointed writing) is equally repulsive.

  25. JMacLean says:

    I’m so happy about the Mark of Cain storyline, in fact I haven’t been this excited about the show in a very long time. Hope it continues into season 10. It’s awesome to see Dean deal with his own problems and his own storyline for a change.

  26. Sean says:

    It seems original thought isn’t exact Carver’s forte because the MoC storyline is almost an exact replica of the season 4 Sam’s powers and the season 6 Castiel and the power of the Leviathans storylines. However it could still be exciting. Dean has had one foot in the darkside for a long time now. He had no hesitation in taking the MoC, despite what it represented. In the early seasons he got a thrill out of killing and if you add that to Purgatory where he found purity in killing then perhaps the MoC is merely bringing to fruition the story that was started when Dean spent ten years torturing in hell; demon Dean. (There was an interesting observation made that in ‘First Born’, Tara only made a grab for her demon detecting knee after Dean said his name. Might be nothing, might be something.)

    This then sets the stage for Sam, possibly at the end of season 10, to save Dean by curing a demon and in doing so, closing the gates of hell at the same time. Sam won’t kill for Dean but he will die for Dean. Dean will have gotten the big sacrifice from Sam that he evidently wants and Sam will have saved lives by closing the Gates of Hell. He will also have paid back the debt (for want of a better word) he owes Dean since Dean sold his soul in season 2, which will make them equals. There’s also a nice symmetry to that in that Mary made a deal with a demon for John, John died to save Dean, Dean died to save Sam and now Sam can finish the circle by dying to save Dean.

  27. I am really excited to see what burdem the Mark of cain bring Dean both emotionally and physically … and seeing as how Dean is riding the guilt horse and being abandined abt family and friend this season , i ‘d like to see more insight into Deans mid and what he is going through or suffering as a result of this burden !!
    also hoping that we explore something abt Men of Letters which makes Dean relate to it too !! make Dean also feel that he is part of the great legacy of Winchesters and Men of Letters !

  28. JJ says:

    I have said it before, and I’m saying it again: Carver gives the worst interviews.

    SPN needs Sam & Dean to be inseparable in order for the show to work on a basic level. I guarantee you that the show will not work if Sam & Dean aren’t rolling down the road in the Impala together hunting together – it is the entire premise of the show. You can’t have a split show SPN with Sam & co for one half and then Dean & co for the other half. It will work for an episode or two, sure, but it can’t become a regular thing. SPN needs Sam & Dean together to work – even Carver has acknowledged this in the past.

    SPN will also not work if Sam & Dean ever stop being each others number 1’s – because any character the writers would create & try to put into that position for either brother would feel cheap & manufactured – the character would be a flimsy replacement for what Sam & Dean have with each other. The brothers relationship is too complex for any other relationship they have to compete.

    Carver’s comment about the brothers making separate friends is again laughable – mostly because of the examples he gives. Crowley (while I love him to death), is not really friend-material – in no world is being friends with the King of Hell considered a GOOD (much less mature) thing. And Sam being friends with Cas? While we are finally getting to see it onscreen, that is not new news. Plus, Cas is friends with both brothers…so they technically share him as a friend.

    I’m all for allowing the brothers to make friends, but it has to be believable & feel genuine..something the writers have had issues with in the past. For example, Amelia. She didn’t work for a reason – the audience didn’t get it or her, mostly because she was forced upon us. Carver needs to work on building characters – like Jody & Charlie & Garth. We need to get to know characters in order to empathize with them.

    I have hope for the brothers. I don’t like how the show is trying to tell us how toxic & wrong the brothers relationship is. Does it need work? Absolutely. But it also is this very special & fantastic thing that has allowed Sam & Dean to survive for so long. It has saved the world.

  29. Kelly says:

    I am sooo excited for the Mark of Cain storyline! It’s so great to see Dean getting a real storyline, that hopefully, will not be dropped like past ones. It’s also great to see Carver actually talking about Dean and a storyline for Dean.

  30. Faridah says:

    So happy Dean finally gets his own story, and also for Jensen. He seems excited to have something different to act for a change. And seeing what a brilliant actor he is, he deserves this and more, so I’m very thankful for this arc.
    I also wish the current tension between the brothers would stop. Dean needs to realize that Sam is able to making his own decisions and that loving Sam and caring for him does not equal what he’s been doing. I understand that that is what has been drilled into him since a young age and he doesn’t necessarily know any better, but he needs to realize that on his own.
    Sam also needs to realize the same thing and that saying all those things to his brother the way he said it is not going to achieve/change anything.
    I hope what we get from this is the brothers learning their lesson and learning how to care and love each other while also letting go, giving each other space. I refuse to believe that this is will not be the end result, because Sam and Dean are smart adults who can learn from their mistakes, especially big ones like those.

  31. Jane says:

    Very sad that you did not ask a single question about Sam and that Carver had nothing to say about Sam himself. As far as I’m concerned, the Mark of Cain is the Mark of Vain, and I’m not that interested in Dean getting a rehash of Sam’s story “arc” in Season 4, and Cas’s in S.6. But with more added Dean in it and no Sam at all. When Sam had his dark arc, it was from Dean’s highly negative, prejudicial (demon racist) point of view. I’m tired of Dean controlling how the story appears to viewers. Sam really was the injured party this season, not Dean. What Dean did with the Mark of Cain, he did to himself, and because Crowley tricked him into wanting it.

    And the brothers ignoring each other to find new friends? How boring could this show get? Seriously? SPN is ABOUT Sam and Dean and their relationship, and them hunting monsters on the road. Who on earth wants to watch a tv show where the two leads live together, drive together, and work together, but they NEVER talk to each other? Seriously! And Dean’s had friends in this show all along. He names a new family member every other episode, and it’s bull. It’s Sam whose never allowed to have his own friends or romances. People talk about how Sam treated Benny, but forget about Dean killing Amy, just because it gave him more control over Sam to have her dead (oh, she killed people? Well, so did Benny, so did Crowley, and so did Castiel).

    I just want to get insight into Sam for once. He’s technically the lead character, and I’ve never EVER seen a lead character be treated this badly by a show runner and writers before. It breaks my heart. Jared Padalecki is a great actor, and I’d like to see him used to the full for once. How sad will it be to see Jared shine after SPN is over, knowing that we could have gotten this on SPN for the past 9 seasons, but got the cowardly crutch of making it all about Dean’s feelings instead. Sam has feelings, too, for God’s sake, and real maturity is this show finally taking them into account instead of ignoring them all the time.

    • “I just want to get insight into Sam for once. …Sam has feelings, too, for God’s sake, and real maturity is this show finally taking them into account instead of ignoring them all the time.”

      Co-signing this part of the above sentiment. One of my greatest frustrations in watching this show, outside of there never being enough Cas for me (sorry not sorry, Cas haters), is that I have really struggled to understand and identify with Sam. He’s often been more plot device than fully informed character, and we’re rarely put in the position of seeing things from his perspective and understanding where he’s coming from. I agree that Jared is very gifted (he’s had my heart in my throat more than once – 4×21, 7×17, and 8×21 come to mind), and it would be great to see him allowed to see him do more on the emotional end of things.

      • Sean says:

        It would be great if they did give us more insight on Sam as a person, and not as a plot. However, Dean is firmly established as the POV character and I doubt that will change. This season was the perfect set up for a reversal. Instead, the main focus was on how Dean’s actions affected Dean. How what Dean did affected Sam barely got a look in. It’s unfortunate because, for me, the overabundance of POV from Dean and the dearth of POV from Sam really isn’t doing either character any favours.

        • Well articulated! It does seems late in the game for the writing staff to finally grasp this, but…from your keyboard to the writers’ ears.

          • kaystiel says:

            I would agree, the show was first designed around Sam and his abilities, with Dean as sidekick, but as show went out, Dean became the more sympathetic and fleshout character, you can attribute a lot to Jensen Ackles’s skills, but Dean comes part and parcel with Sam, they are always more interesting together than apart, and rather than making the Winchesters bond an asset writers (Carver) have decided to keep it a negative, and in a rut, narratively speaking, The fans don’t want it, and it’s certainly not bringing depth or interest to the acting for J2, so much for giving the Winchesters a more ‘mature’ character arc in Carver’s takeover.

    • kaystiel says:

      there is no such thing as ‘demon racisim’ in the show they are not their own race, rather they are human souls twisted to evil by time in Hell, they get out of Hell as the worst of the worst, for the sole purpose to take human souls, there has never been a good demon in Supernatural, they have worked with demons out of necessity, but no, never a good demon.

  32. Dan says:

    Cannot wait to see the rest of this season unfold. Too excited. Dean’s story arc, the angst, maybe finally getting rid of the pesky angels. Cannot wait! But, I have a few questions as to where this fandom is going: how come when Dean is basically “going dark”, pretty much everyone in the fandom is for it and cannot wait to see “dark Dean”; but when Sam went ‘dark side’, everyone crucified him? Castiel went ‘dark side’ as well, and, for the most part, the fandom loved that. Why do Dean and Castiel get to go dark and everyone responds with support and words of encouragement, but Sam does it and the whole fandom decides to crucify him? How does that work?

    • Julia says:

      I’m a Sam girl but I am also very happy for Deans MoC story, looking forward to dark Dean, love him as a bad ass.

      As to your question on the fandoms treatment of Sam, I’m bias but I don’t think Sam can blink without getting hate. It’s an unfortunate double standard. I could write books speculating why, sigh.

      • Dan says:

        I am totally with you on Dean’s story arc taking off. I think this one fits him perfectly. And I can help you write that book. The poor guy breaths and the whole fandom thinks he’s doing it solely to irritate Dean. I really do not understand how the fandom can call themselves a “family” but some wish for Sam to die. ?? Please explain that concept to me (rhetorical question). It just sucks that this season Sam has gotten so much hate.

    • Maedbh says:

      Welcome to the SPN fandom, where its only okay to do it if Dean does it!

      • Dan says:

        *sigh* being in a fandom should be a full time job. It’s so hard and stressful! Haha. And I honestly DO like Dean, I really do, and his story arc is amazing! But why is it ok for him to do it? You know?

  33. sarah says:

    Sam Who ?!

  34. Arthur says:

    I know I’m not alone in thinking WHERE THE HELL IS CAS. I really hope they use Misha more next season, because he’s a phenomenal actor and his interactions with Sam and Dean (well, more Dean – profound bond, all that) are the highlight of the show for me.

  35. B Stein says:

    Like the Dark Dean stuff, a lot. Hope it’s awesome!

    Can’t actually blame Sam for being upset with Dean, either. I’m sure they’ll iron things out.

    Miss Castiel. I’m getting worried about the lack of confirmations for season 10, because he’s become my favorite character and has shown real growth in seasons 8 and 9. Is his agent playing hardball or something, because it’d be nice to hear he’s a regular again.

  36. Shinobu says:

    I’m excited about the chance to Dean have his own history, but with the Dean’s sl is always good to have a back foot. So I just hope that Dean’s sl survive beyond this season and that a possible redemption arc for Dean in S10 will not be just given to Sam as always happens.
    I have only one certainty in all of this, it’s going to be incredible to see Jensen can play something else than cheerleader guilty!

  37. Nancy says:

    I would Like the ghosts of their Parent’s to show up and Snap them out of this. Because in the end of the day Sam and Dean are the only family they have, and they need each other. Yes it’s important for the to be independent from each other but they still need that bond. For Sam saying he would let Dean die if the situations were reversed is going to far.

    I mean unless they plan to bring female Leads for these two to end up with like they tried to do in season’s 6 and 8?

  38. Hundley says:

    I am not sure I like Carver’s vision of who the brothers are. I think he has tinkered with the very premise of this show and I don’t see that he even realizes that. His focus is on the brothers being two independent people with an ensemble cast to lighten the workload, but what is he doing with the ‘two brothers, on the road together, fighting evil and saving people?’ This is a fundamental change in the show that I’m not sure I like. I think it’s time to put the angels to bed for real and get on with the fighting evil part of the show.

  39. MDFawn says:

    I see the comment section once again has devolved into fanfic ship wank.

    So I’m a Brofan. I like when the brothers are getting along (relatively, as most brothers/sibliings do) and frankly for all those complaining that it’s a toxic relationship and they should grow and mature, fine I get you. So walking away and closing doors on each other and NOT talking is not my idea of mature. My 17 and 14 years act more mature then these two grown ass men. They’re not working anything out. Frankly, the last few episodes have not been entertaining. They’ve been like watching a person getting their teeth extracted without any anesthetic. Not fun people. Which kind of defeats the purpose of a television show because isn’t it suppose to be entertaining?

    I’m not a fan of the angle story line, not gonna lie. I liked Cas in Season 4 and 5. Why? Because he and the other angels were relevant to the story. They and he had a purpose. Granted I LOVED the Apocalypse story line. Since the end of season 5, Cas as a character has been floundering. I feel that they’ve been shoehorning him into the story just to keep him around. Sorry that’s how I see it. I can’t imagine that any Castiel fan is really, honestly and truly happy with the angel story this year? Are you? Because I’ve got to say it’s basically just sat there like a dead fish, doing nothing.

    I have my own opinion why that is, but I’ll save that for another day. They started it and then . . . nothing and no, I don’t want to discuss Destiel because I’m not interested. It has nothing to do with my conversation about the Angel Civil War story line. The writers started it (and really, not original because isn’t that what was happening in Season 6?) and barely even addressed it. Introduced a Big Bad in Bart and then killed him in the very next episode we saw him in? Why even introduce the character? Pointless. Then they make Castiel human for like four episodes and we saw him fixing a slurpy machine. No, I’m not saying that to be mean to the Castiel fanbase, I’m saying it because it’s true. We saw absolutely nothing to show me that Cas gained anything meaningful from being human.

    I’m hoping that they resolve the brother angst because it’s painful and NOT entertaining. I like the idea of MOL but like a lot of the story lines it hasn’t gone anywhere. I like MOW stories when they are actually scary. I’d love some Sam POV because his pissed and has a right to be and he’s said some harsh things to Dean but we don’t see how those words have effected him. We’ve seen Dean’s hurt and feelings about seemingly being abandoned by his brother but nothing in kind for Sam. Cas, unless they are going to flesh out this Civil War and move it to where the battlefield really should be, in Heaven, what’s really the point. And let’s talk about Heaven. I was so hoping that when they introduced the war for Heaven it was the perfect opportunity to bring all old and missed characters back. I mean really, Bobby, Ash, Ellen and Paster Jim are in Heaven without Angels and they aren’t pulling a siege? Get real writers. Another missed opportunity.

    Just my opinion.

    • wow201102 says:

      As a Cas fan, myself, I can vouch for the fact that a great deal of Casfen agree with your comments wholeheartedly. While there have been individual scenes and character moments that we’ve variously liked or loved, there have also been ones that we’ve loathed, and, more than anything, the general consensus seems to be one of disappointment on that front. And, in fact, we have had similar criticisms of seasons past. The difference between us and non-Casfans is that many of those people think the key to fixing the show’s narrative problems is just to get rid of Castiel entirely, whereas we believe that these things can and should be remedied while still keeping Cas around.

      Flat episodes, dropped or incoherent storylines, plot points that don’t seem to serve a purpose, and characters that get introduced only to be offed shortly thereafter are all very real issues with the writing, but they are hardly the realm of Cas’s story, alone. The show is literally littered with them, especially (though not exclusively) in the past 4 years. Season 7 was perhaps the most pervasive instance of this, and Cas was barely even there for most of it. So pinning the issue solely on him and the rest of the angels is illogical, and we can say, with a fair amount of certainty, that getting rid of Cas will not, in fact, serve as a cure-all for the real problems with the series.

      Then there is the secondary point, which I know I have been saying from as early on as season 6, when people were complaining about the angels overstaying their welcome and the Apocalypse storyline being rehashed: It would be entirely possible to keep Cas around, as a character, in the capacity of friend and additional support unit for the Winchesters, without having the overarching myth for the season focus on angel politics. Cas *is* capable of being an asset in matters beyond the angelic.

      But this is the real reason why so many of us are often dismayed to find out that Cas isn’t going to be in a lot of episodes. It isn’t just that we like Cas and want to see more of him (even though that is true); It’s because we know that Cas not being in most of the episodes generally means that his story is going to be handled in an inconsistent and ultimately unsatisfying way, as they have to keep coming up with reasons for him to be absent for multiple episodes at a time. And, in his absence, they completely fail to make any other sort of progress on what he’s dealing with. instead of just a few. But, when people mention these things to the writers, asking for more Cas presence or even just phone calls or mentions of him to give us an update on his off-screen goings on, we are often accused of being annoying and pushy and of not getting what the show is actually about. Because wanting a consistently written story, with some follow-through, is apparently asking too much in the minds of some :P

      By the same token, we also aren’t happy with Cas’s story constantly being separate from the bros for similar reasons: Cas being off on his own, doing his own thing, instead of participating in Sam and Dean’s adventures, splits the narrative focus and creates more plot threads that need to be wrapped up, making it more difficult for either story to be told effectively. But, ultimately, the Winchesters’ story at least has a shot, as they have more screen time and focus, being the leads., whereas Cas’s story will almost always come up short, so long as he is shoved to the side like he has been. All we really want is cohesion and unity and decently-paced, self-contained narrative. And we can’t, for the life of us, figure out why that’s so impossible to accomplish.

      • MDFawn says:

        I can see you’re complaints and can understand them. I never said that they should get rid of Cas, just that if they are going to write a story line about fighting to regain Heaven he’s going to have to go to Heaven, The one thing I noticed in your comment was the fact that you only referenced Cas. Whereas, I mentioned all aspects of the SPN story lines and their faults.

        • wow201102 says:

          I know *you* never said that, which is why I very intentionally used the more general term “non-Cas fans”, as there are many people who have intimidated such things, time and time again.

          As to me only mentioning Cas, in case you failed to pick up on it, I was responding to a very specific set of points you made, wherein you posed the rhetorical question: “I can’t imagine that any Castiel fan is really, honestly and truly happy with the angel story this year? Are you? Because I’ve got to say it’s basically just sat there like a dead fish, doing nothing.” Followed by a paragraph’s worth of explanation on why you feel it hasn’t been working. I responded to your question and then expanded on it by acknowledging that Cas fans, in fact, have many of the same complaints, they are just often swept under the rug and twisted to have alternate meanings or agendas behind them. I also made it a point to mention that many of the problems you cited as bothering you about Cas’s current storyline are things that are widespread problems with the series, not just for Cas, but for Sam, Dean, Kevin and others over the years and how the separate storylines are actually a problem for *all* of the characters, which actually *is* referencing other aspects of the show. But, since I outed myself as a Casfan, you clearly elected to ignore that when reading.

          I will admit that I did not address *all* of the points in your post, as I did not want to discuss those things at the moment and don’t feel like I should be compelled to give a point-for-point response if it is not my desire to do so. I especially, specifically, did not want to talk about the Sam-vs-Dean wars that have been going on, not because I don’t care about those characters (as you seem to be implying), but because experience has taught me that there is virtually no response that one can give in Sam-vs-Dean matters that won’t be considered incendiary by some group or another and result in a pile-on style argument. Not to mention the additional knowledge that, because my favorite character is Castiel, rather than Sam or Dean, my opinion on such matters is often not taken seriously to begin with. I have accidentally fallen into far too many bro-related disputes in too many places for me to bother even attempting to casually broach the subject in an open forum anymore. It’s exhausting, and I want no part of it.

          • MDFawn says:

            Woo, didn’t mean anything by it. You didn’t out yourself, I mean it obvious that your a Cas fan and I’m fine with that just as I’m sure (or hope) that it’s fine that I’ve “outed” myself as a Sam fan by my comments about his lack of POV. Believe me, I could do a whole, multi-paragraph post about my problems with Sam’s vilification in the show, but that would bring the EDG down on my head.

            I didn’t ignore the fact that you did reference some of the other problems with the story line but the majority of your comment was in regards to Cas. I’m NOT just pointing at you but at the general tone of most comment section and this article in particular. It always devolves into “this” wank. I just wanted to have a discussion about the SHOW as a whole. JUST A NOTE: If anyone comments in a rude and belligerent manner (no matter your side of the fandom) I’m ignoring you, so don’t bother.

            As a Cas fan I was interested in knowing what your opinion might be on the lack of POV of Sam. I know many fans (a great majority it seems Cas fans) seem to want a more mature/less toxic brother bond, do you (specifically as I really don’t want to participate in either side of the fandom piling on my post) find that the last few episodes really been maturing of the brothers relationship? Have they been acting like their growing? Have you been even entertained by the show?

            I think in my original comment it’s pretty clear that I’m not happy, AT ALL, with the writing in general. Really doesn’t matter which story line we’re talking about. They seem to start something (MOL/Angel Civil War/MOC) and then just drop it and if they do pursue it, never flesh it out. I know it’s not always a popular sentiment but I miss, desperately, Kripke and Gamble. The Apocalypse had such depth and they fleshed out many areas (not all) of that story line.

            Off to work for me.

  40. Lou says:

    I don’t really want to see Dean/Crowley and Sam/Cas, Carver. They don’t work. I want to see Dean/Cas/Sam, and Dean/Cas, and Sam/Crowley, and Dean/Sam.

  41. Dan says:

    I swear, the shipping this fandom does is unbelievable. Every single one of you is entitled to ship. I get it, the bromance in this show is something else. But, the one thing I cannot tolerate is when one of you guys wishes for a character to die. I honestly do not believe this show will make wincest or destiel (biggest ships) canon. At all. Yes, Sam and Dean have that great chemistry that started with this show, and will end with the show. And Dean and Castiel have great chemistry as well. But, wishing for any of these characters to die, especially for the sole purpose to make wincest or destiel canon, is just utterly repulsive. The shipping in this show has literally made wincesters and destielers hate each other. We all know Sam nor Dean will ever get killed off (permanently). And I HIGHLY doubt Castiel is going anywhere. What a “family” this fandom is. Wishing death on characters just for their ship’s sake.

  42. Teresa says:

    I am afraid to hope that Carver plans to allow A Dean-centric story to continue for any length of time. I’m afraid it will be taken away from him like The Righteous Man (only the one who started the Apocalyse can end it…(oops, except now Sam will do that) or Purgatory, 24/7 365 monsters for Dean’s twenty minutes of air time or a virtual walk in the park for Sam. I want the Mark of Cain story developed – not introduced and not developed.
    I want a well-crafted and tightly spaced plot about it.
    I want the MoW eps to help develop ideas not be used to showcase the writers stupidest ideas.
    I would rather have a 15 episode season of solid writing than a 23 episode season with 11 one-offs.

  43. kaystiel says:

    How can Sam and Dean have more ‘friends’ when you’ve killed them all off or driven them away? Kevin was killed as a stunt, Garth turned into a werewolf, Charlie sent off to Oz, Benny sent back to Purgatory, there is no one for Dean to rely on, even his best friend Cas was sent away from the bunker ALL SEASON on the flimsiest of excuses. They’ve taken the best thing about the show, the brother’s bond, and twisted it beyond recognition, it was their strength, now it’s supposed to be their weakness?
    Crowley has had the most consistent and interesting arc all season, it makes sense, he progresses through his blood addition, Sam was passed out most season and clueless, Dean was lying to everyone, and poor Castiel had the worst, where his narrative was whiplashed from human to damaged angel, and made to serve the weak what-evil-this-season storyline yet again, a waste of a great character and talent (we can say this about Jared and Jensen too)
    Just have a nemesis and a mission and stick to it, this is no Game of Thrones. You managed to completely wreck any mystery and power to angels (not) well done.

  44. carolyn says:

    What has happened to season 9? The writing is weak and Jensen just looks either pissed off or bored. Have the writers just run out of ideas? It is very sad to see a wonderfully funny, sometimes gruesome and unique series, which didn’t really take itself too seriously seemingly sell out. I have actually just stopped watching episode 20 because Dean and Sam are hardly in it, have little to say and don’t seem very interested. But then again how can you be interested when your lines are limited and there seems to be some other actors/characters taking lead roles. Very very very disappointing and none of this matters if the producers etc of the series don’t look at posts or take viewers opinions seriously. Shame on you.