'Ship Shape: How Fave Pairs From Grey's, Glee, Arrow, Nashville and Other Shows Are Faring

Still reeling from all that Oscar buzz? Sober up with our latest ‘Ship Shape, a recurring feature in which TVLine provides you with the latest developments for TV’s hottest duos — and then offers our forecast for each pairing.

RELATED | Who is TVLine’s Performer of the Week?

Don’t see your favorite love match represented here? Give ‘em a shout out below and maybe they’ll merit a mention the next go-around.

And with that said, this ‘ship is about to set sail, so click through the gallery below and hop aboard!

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. :) says:

    You completely left out Shules, the best tv pairing ever… and not just because James Roday and Maggie Lawson are together in real life.

    • justsaying says:

      grown women who feel the need to mix names of couples have the mentality of twelve year olds. but for some reason they are always the ones to end up with bfs/husbands. who then proceed to talk about how women are all idiots, when it’s just that they picked an idiot to hook up with. and women see that men like idiots so they keep on being them. and the cycle continues. smh.

  2. Riana says:

    It was Glenn that walked in actually.

  3. Christina says:

    My Arrow couple is Oliver and Sara now…who cares about Laurel!

    • Mari says:

      I love Oliver and Sara too, and I like Sara and Felicity as friends.

      • Lizzie says:

        Yes thank god they didn’t make them all cliche and have her hate her. Yes she was jealous but cuz she likes being the only girl who knew of Oliver’s secret. I love how Sara really digs Felicity and Felicity likes her too. Yes agree Olicity will happen BUT we have to give it time. For once I ship the producers giving them time.

        • Elizabeth says:

          I’m perfectly fine with giving it time as long as it really is something they’re planning on at some point. I don’t have a problem with the pacing, just worried about whether there’ll be followthrough. They make everything so ambiguous that you just can’t trust them, which is a shame.

          But I am very glad they didn’t make Felicity jealous. I didn’t want her to have to be the ‘grin and bear it’ girl, but I am glad she focused on how the changed dynamic affected her contribution to the team. That is Felicity all over.

          That said, I really, REALLY wish they would do something for her besides Barry Allen. He’s not going to be returning this season, and they’ve cast his love interest, Iris, for The Flash. I’ve seen some speculation that they’ll try for an Iris/Barry/Felicity triangle, but I so hope not. They’ve let Oliver sleep with half of Starling City. Why not let her have someone for a while who is as good if not better than Oliver? He deserves the competition and she deserves not to be left hanging around and waiting on a guy in a coma who never even kissed her. It’s getting into the ‘oh, she’s a geek, so she has no romantic life’ territory, and that is just annoying.

    • Louise says:

      Same here! I’d enjoy Olicity in the future, but we/they/I’m not there yet.

    • Aryn says:

      So does OTL mean “One True Love”??

  4. Rissa says:

    I’m pretty sure nobody has shipped Oliver and Laurel since Felicity made her first appearance.

    • Ginger says:


    • GildedRose says:

      I’ve discovered over the last few episodes that Felicity made Oliver more likable for me. It was a way to move away from the cheating/sister story and actually let Oliver be the type of character I liked. So yeah, right there with you… Oliver and Felicity. I’m really hoping the show is going to use this season to wrap up and move on from the sister baggage but it feels like they’re going to actually go into it deeper and it’s damaging Oliver for me to the point I want Slade to just punch him in the face repeatedly. That can’t be good. LOL.

    • Nina says:

      I feel so bad for Laurel, as her comic book counterpart is awesome… and her tv show version.. is just… meh. :/ Here for keeping Sarah and Felicity around. :) Why otp when you can ot3.

  5. Monica says:

    Catherine and Vincent from Beauty and The Beast deserve a mention. It looks like things may be heating up for them again.

  6. JC says:

    Looks like Arrow put the final nail in the Laurel/Oliver coffin.” We can only hope. Seriously. I don’t care if they do Oliver/Sara or Olicity or Oliver/someone else – just no more Oliver/Laurel. Please.

    • Alia says:

      Seriously, my ‘ship on that show is Oliver/Not Laurel. I actually think they should kill her off (or put her on a bus, thus not putting Sara and Det. Lance through the whole grieving thing) and just let Sara have the Black Canary identity. I know it’s a big step away from DC canon, but sometimes drastic measures are necessary.

      • JC says:

        I’m for killing her off personally, thus offering no openings for a possible return somewhere down the line.

      • Kristina says:

        No kidding! Besides, didn’t they already kind of mess with Black Canary anyway?

        • Elizabeth says:

          I think it would be awesome if Laurel went evil. The character’s just never been a sympathetic one, but she would be a *great* villainess. Can you imagine if Slade got her over to his side? Ow.

          • JC says:

            I’ve seen this around, but I don’t buy it. Sure it would play to the actress’s strengths, but I don’t think it would be even remotely believable for the character of Laurel as she’s been developed on the show. Even with her addictions, she was still after truth and justice. I would not buy a turn to the dark side at all. And that’s not me speaking as a Laurel fan, because I can’t stand the character.

      • Christina says:

        So much yes to this. I love Oliver/Sara, but just so long as it’s not Laurel I’m happy. If they just let Sara take over the BC identity, I would be SO happy.

      • A says:

        I second that motion

    • Elizabeth says:

      JC, I wouldn’t think she’d go evil, as in, ‘Oh, let me join up with the Evil League of Evil’. I do think she could be one who could be sold on draconian justice and think herself justified. Look how she set Arrow up, and he’d saved her life multiple times. I do think she could do some pretty horrific things as long as she was convinced she was doing the right thing, if that makes sense.

      But I’d be happier if they just got rid of her. They just have found no way at all for her to add to the Team Arrow dynamic, and that’s what I watch for.

  7. GildedRose says:

    Lord knows I’m no Oliver/Laurel fan BUT… Is it just me or is Arrow a mess all of a sudden?

    Oliver spent all of season 1 saying how sorry he was for cheating on Laurel and banging her sister, then suddenly he’s doing the exact same thing because… Hm. Wait. I don’t know why. But he is. And apparently now it’s okay, he’s tots fine with it, the whole “my life is too dangerous” speech has been apparently forgotten, and Laurel doesn’t have the right to be mad at him anymore. More than that, Oliver got to lecture her, claim his family junk is bigger than hers, and SHE apologizes to him and is apparently supposed to be okay that the same set of circumstances from 5 years ago (pre boat sinking) are repeating themselves? Huh? I totally don’t get this.

    I really loved the first 1/2 of this season but it’s like overnight the writers just chucked everything they did and said out the window. I’ve loved Oliver but man the last episode or so have really made him look bad. It’s like he learned absolutely nothing by getting on that boat and getting stuck on an island for 5 years Worse than that, the show doesn’t seem to get that they just recreated the same events and, after telling us how horrible those choices made Oliver “then,” the show is acting like Oliver’s terrific for doing essentially the same thing “now.”. I’m SO confused how this is supposed to make me care about Oliver’s character at all. He feels so jerkish now.

    Arrow! What happened to your show?! I blinked and suddenly it’s a hot mess.

    • Katherine215 says:

      Yeah, I’m a couple episodes behind, mainly because I’ve felt the last several episodes had not been that good and I’m not a fan of the storylines. When I found myself making snarky comments about all of the characters, I thought it might be a good time for a brief hiatus.

      • Katherine215 says:

        Also, I liked it better when Oliver’s love life didn’t feel like the sole purpose of the show.

        • GildedRose says:

          I wouldn’t mind a romance on the show but how about one that doesn’t make Oliver seem like a self-absorbed a-hole? The sleeping with sisters thing is a total turn off. I was hoping we were done with that whole thing after the fiasco of season 1 when they did that stupid Oliver/Laurel/Tommy thing. It took me awhile to start liking Oliver again after that disaster. Season 2 had a great start. I loved the Oliver/Felicity/Diggle team thing, I really liked Oliver/Felicity, and I liked who his character was becoming. Now it feels like they just slashed all that overnight and, honestly, I can’t figure out why. I don’t mean why from a storytelling network decision angle but a why from a this makes no sense given the story we’ve been watching for 1/2 a season now. It’s going contrary to every single thing the show has established since the pilot. When you start feeling like Oliver — the hero and main point of the show — is an unlikeable character you don’t want to spend time with… there’s a problem.

          • Janean says:

            THis is why I want sara gone! And Laurel. this is going to sound horrible but I liked it better when Oliver had meaningless relationships. or was just single. (I am honestly a olicity shipper lol) but yeah the whole sleeping with the Other sister thing is not cool.

          • Katherine215 says:

            Yeah, I don’t mind a romance either, but seriously, it seems like every other episode, Oliver’s sleeping with someone new – the cop from early season one (I’m forgetting her name), Laurel, Isabel, Sarah, Shado (even though those are flashbacks, it still feels recent), and he’s eyeing Felicity all the time. I don’t think I’m a prude, but jeez, dude, keep it in your pants for 5 minutes. 1.5 seasons and he’s already slept with all but one female character on the show.

        • kylie says:

          I think the problem is the whole sisters thing. It doesn’t make Oliver likable. I can accept him with anyone whose last name doesn’t end with Lance.

          It just seems like the writers have a plan, except when it comes to Oliver’s love life. First half of the season, they teased him with Felicity, and then Stephen Amell did an interview where he said Oliver was never jealous of Barry, which just confused me. I don’t understand the outburst in Blast Radius at all now that it didn’t stem from jealousy (plus, even Diggle caught it, and when is he ever wrong? He’s DIGGLE!). Then, Oliver hooks up with Sara and there was no set-up for that, and apparently there’s a backstory there and the viewers were supposed to just assume that, which is hard to accept because they didn’t actually put it on the screen–in fact, all I’ve seen in the flashbacks is a strong friendship. Plus, adding Sara to the team DOES take away from Team Arrow, and that was the whole pull of the show for me: Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. The more scenes they give her, the less screen time for Diggle and Felicity, who are my favorite characters. I agree, I think romance is not a strength of Arrow (they did, after all, write the romance backstory from hell with Oliver-Laurel-Sara) and I would rather there be no romance than bad romance. I am really hoping the relationship with Sara ends soon, and we can go back to watching a show about a character who fights bad guys instead of this guy who goes back and forth between two sisters–it is not an appealing draw of the show for me. It’s all over the place. First, it’s Laurel. She suggests they move in together, so Oliver cheats on her with Sara. When he returns to Starling City, the show spends one season trying to convince everyone Laurel is his One True Love, and when this fails miserably, it seems like they decided to resurrect Sara and suddenly, there’s a backstory there. It all smacks of damage control to me. How am I supposed to root for this guy when THESE are his options when it comes to relationships? I used to want him with Felicity, but after this, I just want Oliver to be celibate and for the show to stop trying to write romance. They accidentally stumbled upon something with Felicity, but apparently, any time they actually try, it goes back to the Lance sisters…and that’s not what I call romantic. At all.

    • A says:

      I can’t tell whether they are making Oliver a douche all of a sudden on purpose or not…I kinda hope Slade kicks his ass :)

    • Leprekanish says:

      It appears to me that you are not paying close enough attention the the show. First Oliver was serious with Laurel when he first took off with Sara. That was the last time he was actually with Laurel in a relationship, so he is not cheating on her again. In fact her most recent love was Tommy. The safety thing that they stated still applies also. Laurel and Felicity are “civilians”, Sara is very capable of taking care of herself (btw this point has been made in interviews on this site a couple of times) so he is not endangering her the same way that Laurel and Felicity would be in danger. I’m also pretty sure he never said his family stuff makes hers not exist, but his point was that she is so self involved that she doesn’t even know that he is dealing with family issues. Finally you are missing the fact that Oliver and Sara have shared something that no one else in this series (Slade excepted) could even begin to understand, so it is not just a hook up .

      • GildedRose says:

        Oh I’m paying total attention to the show. I’ve watched every single episode since the pilot. Yes, Oliver was in a relationship with Laurel when he went off with Sara. Then he spent the entirety of season 1 trying to atone for that mistake. We saw him carrying around Laurel’s picture for those 5 years (he still had it when he returned). He was all Biggest Mistake of My Life was doing this to you, Laurel. I did it because my love for you was so big and epic that it scared me and I needed to do the one thing that could blow it apart because it scared me soooooo much.

        Now, fast forward to season 2. Yeah, sure, Oliver and Laurel aren’t together, of course it’s not cheating, but it IS Oliver doing the same thing (banging the sister) that he just spent an entire season calling a mistake and apologizing for over and over again. Now, knowing how Laurel felt about, adding in the drugs and booze, Oliver decides hey, I’m going to go with Sara to a dinner party, at Laurel’s house (Laurel who is still seriously raw from finding out her sister is still alive, etc, etc, etc) and grind all this in her face, then turn around and lecture her for being angry? Seriously?

        It makes him look awful because I have been paying attention. And we don’t know why Oliver’s suddenly gone back on the whole” I can’t be with anyone I care about” because he hasn’t said anything on the show about it to explain it. He just jumped into the relationship without blinking and voicing anything. Again, makes him look like a waffling jerk. Yes, interviews have explained it but it needs to be put on the screen, coming out of a character’s mouth because interviews aren’t the story. A lot people don’t read the interviews and they shouldn’t have to in order to understand what is going on ON the screen.

        As for missing the fact that Oliver and Sara “shared something no one else in this series” I’m not at all. Sure, they’re on the island together in the flashbacks but so far? There’s been zero indication of romance there. None. So that hook up in present day came out of no where and still made zero sense given the established story of the show over the last season and a half. If Arrow wants me to understand stuff? It needs to put it on the screen. in the story. and actually be consistent with the characters and back story they’re presented.

        • Netro says:

          You are seeing the problem with Oliver’s behaviour because you are trying to live in the past, Oliver and Laurel thought they were each other’s true love 6 years ago but it doesnt mean they were or are now. Sara is someone Oliver cares about she isnt just laurel’s little sister he cheated with years ago anymore. They are island comrades and fellow vigilantes, his bond is stronger with her now than it was years ago. Sara came back from being presumed dead, she lost six years of her life and her freedom being forced to work with a mad scientist and a group of assassins. You cant just expect Oliver not to celebrate the life of someone who is important to him just because Laurel doesnt approve. Oliver has been there for laurel too so he isn’t taking sides.

          Just because there was no romantic connection in the past doesn’t mean they cant be a romantic connection in the future. And you are incorrect anyway. Oliver and Sara have a romantic connection pre island. Isnt it why they were together on the boat trip, clearly they are attracted to one another in a romantic and sexual way. They may not have been mutually in love in the past but it doesn’t mean that over the years they cant grow feelings for one another.

          “I cant be with someone I care about”. Oliver hasn’t gone back on his word, he cant be with anyone he cares about that doesn’t know his secret identity and one who isnt physically able to defend themselves. Neither of those things applies to Sara. They are dating relax its not marriage.

          @Fosho are you seriously going to blame Sara for characters like Laurel, Thea, Diggle, not being interesting characters. Even Felicity isnt all that. Remove Sara and those characters will still be the same, Thea being there mostly as Roy’s nagging gf, Laurel still disconnected from the rest of the show, Felicity making puppy eyes at Oliver and Diggle preaching at him. Dont blame Sara because she actually has a rich backstory and story arcs lined up.

          • Netro says:

            And I want to add that yes Oliver has atoned for his “sins” when he cheated on Laurel years ago. Thats the only mistake he is guilty of and has to apologise for, He came back, apologised and has saved Laurel’s life countless times. He has been there as a friend to laurel throughout her troubles He has paid his debt.Oliver and Laurel was also no epic love story from what we have seen in flashbacks and so far in the current setting. Sure its not easy for laurel to see Sara and Oliver together and I understand if she is having a hard time, but its not like she really lost the love of her life to her sister. The Oliver she wanted to settle down with and she thought she was in with was a figment of her imagination. And today they have even grown further apart and barely know each other.

            As to who will end up being the love of Oliver now, it could Sara, Felicity, Helena, isabel or maybe even someone entirely new who hasnt shown up yet. We will just have to watch to find out. All i know is i just cant buy laurel as a character or her relationship with Oliver anymore. Hopefully 2×14 was the final nail in the coffin.

          • GildedRose says:

            Wait. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t tell me I’m living in the past (which by the way was Season 1 of the show which was only 14 episodes back, after after telling me I’m not paying attention to the past of the show… so now that I addressed that I’m living in the past? LOL). There’s a difference between being happy someone is alive and throwing in a sudden romance that makes absolutely no sense when framed against everything Oliver did and said in Season 1. None. And this is coming from somebody who doesn’t like Laurel at all, didn’t like the Oliver/Laurel story and hated the whole idea he cheated on his girlfriend with her sister.

            You wrote, “Oliver and Sara have a romantic connection pre island. Isnt it why they were together on the boat trip, clearly they are attracted to one another in a romantic and sexual way. They may not have been mutually in love in the past but it doesn’t mean that over the years they cant grow feelings for one another.”

            Yes and that’s the problem. That “pre-island romantic connection (cheating)” storyline is what Oliver spent the entire 1st season trying to atone for. And no, it wasn’t why they were together on the boat trip because in one breath the show (season 1 again) told us Oliver regretted that and only did it because he was so in love with Laurel it scared him, etc, etc, etc and now, suddenly in Season 2 he’s sleeping with the sister again because….? Why? Nothing we’ve seen on the show so far explains any of that and viewers aren’t supposed to blink and say What the flipping heck is this?

            It’s contrary storytelling and makes no sense whatsoever given how these characters have been presented to us in the past 30+ episodes so far. None.

          • Katherine215 says:

            I think you’re seriously underestimating the way Laurel was presented in season 1. Oliver carried a torch for her for 5 years on the island, was obviously still in love with her when he returned but stepped aside for Tommy, and then eventually hooked back up with Laurel at the end of season 1. You don’t have to like Laurel, but probably not a good plan to rewrite history in support of your ship.
            And I really hope the show loses this “Oliver can’t be with someone who can’t defend themselves/that he really cares about/excuse of the week” nonsense. It really implies that women can’t make their own choices and need a man to protect them or make decisions for them. Felicity is strong woman. So is Laurel. Let them make their own decisions about their lives.

          • Netro says:

            You dont want to see the connection that Sara & Oliver has now, because it scares you. You dont want to see it because it makes you feel scared about Oliver/Felicity’s chances so you have to downplay the connection Oliver & Sara have.

            Yes it was cheating years ago and it was wrong, but who is to say they didnt have feelings for one another. If you were paying attention its been hinted over and again that Sara had feelings for Oliver. Her mother even said that she told her she was in love with Oliver. Oliver may not have been in love with Sara, but he was attracted to Sara and he liked spending time with her enough to beg her to go with him on a 3 week vacation. Does this sound like there is no romantic connection to you?. Even if it wasnt there, people change over the years as do their feelings. Isnt that why people are hopeful for oliver/felicity, they dont have a romantic connection in the past will you apply the same logic now you are applying to Oliver/Sara.

            @Katherine215 And dont give this BS about Oliver/laurel being as a OTL in season 1. Lots of you Olicity fans denied and didnt buy it but now you act like you did just so you can downplay Oliver/Sara. When you were using the same reasons to support Oliver/Felicity. I dont have to be an Oliver/Sara fan to see the canon as its presented, which doesnt support Oliver/Laurel as an epic romance the way we were initially meant to believe. Him carrying laurel’s picture on the island doesnt mean anything when he was shagging Shado not even a year on the island. Im not denying anything, Oliver/Laurel may have been the initial OTP plan but that has changed. And Felicity/Olicity had something to do with that. So you are being very hypocritical when you chose to apply the logic of the original plan for this current situation and act like your ship Olicity didnt have anything to do with the change in Oliver/Laurel’s relationship status or had nothing to benefit from it. Sara & Felicity are stepping in as potential love interest for Oliver because Laurel, Oliver and laurel didnt work as a character and ship. Chemistry and writing problems. So dont you dare blame all this change on Sara as if your ship isnt part of the reason for this change of plans.

          • Katherine215 says:

            Um, first, maybe remember these are fictional characters. I feel like we’re losing that a little bit here. Second, I don’t ship Oliver and Felicity. If I ship him with anyone, it’s actually Laurel, but I’m not even much of a fan of her character anymore. I’m here for Team Arrow, and if you read my comments above, I’m not even too thrilled with Oliver these days. And I’m not blaming anything on anyone, simply saying I thought you were inaccurate with your portrayal of Oliver/Laurel. But by all means, continue with your blind assumptions, you’ve dedicated paragraphs already.

          • Garnet74 says:

            Hopefully this falls under the right reply the nesting here is getting weird.

            “You dont want to see the connection that Sara & Oliver has now, because it scares you. You dont want to see it because it makes you feel scared about Oliver/Felicity’s chances so you have to downplay the connection Oliver & Sara have.”

            Um. No. My reaction to Oliver’s behavior has absolutely nothing to do with shipping him with anybody. It’s about his behavior period. And I’m not downplaying anything. Look at the scenes on the show. There hasn’t been anything to really downplay. I’m not saying they haven’t gone through stuff together. I’m saying I find the way the story was presented in season 1 vs. what they did in season 2 makes no sense.

          • GildedRose says:

            And sorry, Nero, that reply is from me. Someone just pointed out my log in name shifted (the Garnet reply). Stupid browser log ins. This’ll teach me to borrow a friend’s computer to reply to stuff w/o checking my info before posting.

          • Elizabeth says:

            Netro, I think what people are saying is that they’re doing the same thing with Sara they did with Laurel; they TOLD us what things were rather than SHOWING us. Felicity was never intended to happen and everything we’ve seen has been shown. We’ve seen the relationship develop. That’s why it was so hard to buy Laurel. We were rarely shown any really good times between the two of them, just Oliver staring at that picture and constant conversations about how much he was in love with her. (And frankly, even that didn’t seem too convincing, since he really treated her like crap.)

            They probably will show us more of what caused Oliver and Sara to bond, but to date, we’ve just been told — and rather abruptly. And, actually, the writers didn’t do a ‘rich backstory’ on the two of them; in the interviews I’ve read, Amell said he and Lotz just put their heads together, came up with something, and the Powers That Be okayed it. I think they’re backpedaling because they realize they created a completely toxic backstory for Oliver and Laurel and they’re trying to please the canon crowd by creating a Canary that people can like. I can’t argue with that one. They really painted themselves into a corner.

            Nobody’s blaming Sara for anything, though. It’s simply that there was no buildup or clue. In fact, for a large part of the series, Sara was presumed to be dead.

            That said, the way Oliver and Sara interact with each other does seem to indicate a certain level of familiarity (and I’m not talking about the sex.) However, we haven’t yet been shown what that was. I’m sure we will eventually, but we haven’t seen it yet. If we see *something*, though, it’ll be more than they showed with Laurel.

    • Fosho says:

      Arrow was my fave show, and this first half of the season left me jumping up and down and gasping in shock by episode end every week. I don’t know WHAT happened about four episodes ago, but all of sudden Oliver and Co. are plot driven, out of character, hard to watch hot messes. Sara and Oliver have become very unlikeable to me. The awesome trio of Oliver, Felicity and Diggle has been replaced with Oliver’s condescending, hypocritical, selfrichousness and Sara’ s a patronizing, do-no-wrong who can even make the perfect cocktail. I hate seeing amazing characters like Diggle, Moira, Felicity, Thea and even the much hated Laurel treated as incompetent, and pointless. As much as Laurel no longer has a place on the show she should never asking her sister motto hate her. Oliver’s anger at his mom is so ridiculous and the fact that Thea has zero agency in a storyline about own life is awful. As far as team Arrow, making Diggle a two line per episode part and having Felicity patted on the head for being a silly girl to give Sara more airtime than the series lead is ruining this show. I’ll give it one more week, but I’m into a shows that are willing to sacrifice strong character development for the sake of surprises and omg moments.

      • GildedRose says:

        You bring up a good point with the Thea/Oliver stuff. We know he’s not telling her because I assume he’s protecting her and all that but he’s yet to actually give voice to his decision and no one is asking him about it. I mean, they could very easily have a scene with Oliver and Felicity where she asks him what he’s going to do, have him voice his reasoning for not telling her, have Felicity (who has her own absent daddy issues) give the opposing view point and point out the potential pitfalls of him keeping the secret from her. But instead, the show just drops it and doesn’t bring it up again.

        I think you’re right again, Fosho, that Arrow – which was so good the first half of this season – suddenly went from solid character development stuff to plot focused. Now it’s like they’re not even trying to make things make sense for the characters. The worst part for me is it’s making characters look stupid and it’s leaving me very confused at the end of each episode because I have no clue what the heck anybody’s doing anymore.

        • tess says:

          The first half of this season focused on the original Team Arrow. I would watch every episode until Blast Radius again, but once they added Roy and Sara, it started to lose its appeal (even if Roy isn’t quite there yet, just the fact that he knows). I think there are too many characters and too many subplots and definitely too many love interests at this point. After the last episode, I decided to stop watching the show live. I want the option to fast forward all the Oliver-Sara-Laurel scenes (okay, I was already fast forwarding through the Laurel scenes…or using them for bathroom breaks). Quentin is the only Lance family member I’m interested in at this point. Quentin, Diggle, Oliver and Felicity fighting crime together. I miss that.

        • Elizabeth says:

          Me, either, GildedRose. And now I’m just to the point of not knowing what the heck I just watched, since they’re now saying that Oliver wasn’t jealous of Barry (?), yet I read other interviews at the time specifically saying it was intended to bring about a shift in the relationship between Felicity and Oliver.

          I’m just pretty sure they’ll do to Felicity what they always do with intelligent women, i.e., make her into a buddy/pal character with a hopeless crush on the main male protagonist, a la Penelope from Criminal Minds. That’s actually one reason I stopped watching that show; I found the dynamic between her and Derek to be so patronizing that it just annoyed me. And then to give her a love interest like…Kevin? Ewww. And they don’t even have the ‘well, she’s not that attractive’ excuse with Felicity, because with all due respect, she’s a lot better looking than Sara.

      • Meredith says:

        Thank you to all of this and GildedRose’s comments!! I thought I was the only one feeling this way. In the last scene when Laurel asks her sister not to hate her I was literally cussing at the TV. Are you f’ing kidding me?! Laurel is totally entitled to her anger, she never got to properly feel it or deal with it at the time bc at the same moment she found out about the betrayal she also found out her sister was dead. Now that she knows Sara’s alive she can finally deal with it! Plus, Sara betrays her 5 years ago and then shoves it down her throat again by bringing Oliver to the family dinner and Laurel’s the one apologizing?! That makes zero sense. And I have never wanted to punch Oliver in the throat more than in the last episode. How self-absorbed does he have to be to not realize how difficult it would be for Laurel to see him and Sara together as a couple for the first time? And he knows how Felicity feels about him, why would he trot his relationship w/ Sara in front of her too? Of course she’s going to try and improve upon herself to make Oliver feel safer dating her and of course she’s going to do something stupid in the process! The only characters that didn’t make me irate last week were Diggle and Sin (her mouthed apology to Sara for that hug was priceless).

        • meg says:

          I agree. Characterization is all over the place with Arrow these days. I don’t quite understand how Oliver has evolved from the same guy who was so sensitive to Felicity’s feelings after a one-night stand with Isabel to this guy who kisses Sara in front of Felicity without thinking twice; this is the same Oliver who noticed something was up with her in the last episode, and now has to be told by Diggle that she’s feeling left out. Then, there is the Laurel speech. I don’t like Laurel, but that speech made me hate Oliver. Did Laurel need to hear those things? Absolutely. Was Oliver the right person to tell her? Uh, no. I was sitting there thinking, who is this sanctimonious prick and what is he doing on one of my favorite shows? (Well, it was my favorite show until the last episode…but I hated almost everything about that episode that I think I may have to take a break. I can only take so much butchering of characters I used to love). It’s like the writers were relying on all the fan hate for Laurel to make Oliver seem like the good guy in that scene, but when I look at their history, I’m just disgusted that Oliver thinks he has the right to tell her all that stuff, especially after showing up uninvited to her family’s (reunion) dinner with her sister–the same sister he cheated with six years before. To call him a hypocrite is being kind. I have much harsher words for how that made me see him.

          The worst parts of this episode had to do with how they treated Felicity. So the writers get praised on Twitter for passing the Bechdel test, and I’m seriously confused as to WHY. Sara and Felicity didn’t talk about a guy in their conversations with each other, big whoop. They still felt the need to end the episode with Felicity acting like a puppy who just received her owner’s approval (“You’ll always be my girl” cue rubbing cheek on his hand. EW). It’s one thing to friend zone her, it’s another to turn her into the equivalent of a puppy hungry for affection. Gross. Just gross.

          • Elizabeth says:

            Yes, Meg, the whole part where they were talking about ‘keeping it quiet from everybody’ while they’re right in front of Digg and Felicity — hello? Ah, didn’t you just get through telling her that you couldn’t see anyone you cared about? Okay, so was that a major friendzone lie or what? He didn’t say, ‘I can’t get involved with anyone I care about *who can’t take care of themselves*’, he specifically just said, ‘Hey, I can’t get involved in a relationship with someone I could care about.’

            I actually had to watch this ep twice; I watched it once without the better half, so I watched it again with him. I did end up re-evaluating the whole ‘You’re my girl’ scene. My first reaction was much like yours (‘Wow, patronizing much, Oliver?’) and then I thought about who we were talking about. One, Felicity’s the one who brought up the term, ‘your girl’, not Oliver. Two, since I’m married to someone who gets just as loopy and incoherent on drugs as Felicity, I can see why her command of the language (which is never the best when she’s flustered, anyway) might have been questionable. Three, if there’s one thing Oliver’s got experience with, it’s people who are drunk and/or stoned. I took her reaction as similar to the typical drunk, ‘I LOVE you, man!’, and I thought Oliver a) got a chuckle from straight-arrow Felicity being whacked out of her head (and I found it funny for the same reason I find my husband’s similar reactions to be funny- because it’s so very unlike what they’re like normally), and b) realized that when you have someone in that state, you don’t try to argue with them or point out different terms — you just reassure them. That he *would* touch her was actually in line with the physical proximity arc they’ve been following – I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but their personal space has been gradually growing closer over the course of the season. Also, she was about passed out; I don’t know if you noticed, but he actually had to shake her a little to wake her back up.

            I don’t know if that helps make you a little less annoyed…it helped me. That said, I’m still just blown away by Oliver’s tactlessness by PDA’ing with Sara in front of Felicity. Yeah, wow. She’s nobody. Jerk.

            And I reiterate: I really want a *good* relationship for Felicity while they’re letting Oliver tomcat. Not just some geek (no offense to Barry), but someone who can really threaten Oliver on his own turf. You have to admit, the way Oliver’s treated her would kick almost any woman’s sexual self-esteem. And while we’re at it, I’d like her to call him on that ‘I can’t get involved’ comment, except she wouldn’t, because it would be out of character for her.

      • meg says:

        You know what I hated about Laurel apologizing to Sara? That Sara didn’t apologize back. She betrayed her sister six years ago, and it’s Laurel who is apologizing and crying and asking for forgiveness. Huh. I don’t see how that’s supposed to work. I don’t like Laurel, but after watching that sister scene, I hated Sara. It really is like the writers are working on the assumptions that Laurel is unlikable and Sara is likable, so they write these scenes without actually considering that these are CHARACTERS and what they do has to fit with who they are supposed to be. So, angry, pill-popping, alcoholic, bitter Laurel who has been on a downward spiral for several episodes decides to apologize AND attend AA after her hypocritical ex-bf gives her a speech that should have resulted in her slapping him. As far as I’m concerned, that’s just lazy writing.

        • JC says:

          Er. Her sister comes back from the dead, and she reacts by screaming and throwing a glass at her? Not feeling the sympathy personally. If we’d had the dinner scene (less the petty cut downs of her father) without the glass throwing temper tantrum first? I’d be more on her side. As it is, not so much.

          • kylie says:

            Just my opinion, but screaming and throwing a glass at her is within what has been established for Laurel’s character (for this season…last season, they wrote her completely differently). She’s been a b*tch for most of this season, and it’s like they flicked a switch and the apology did seem to go against who she is supposed to be, like it was supposed to suddenly redeem her. I don’t buy that the angry, bitter Laurel they have set up would have accepted what Oliver said. I’m surprised she didn’t throw a glass at him based on what the writers showed me about her. Also, add me to the group who’s not too fond of Sara (I’m just anti-Lance sisters at this point. It’s too soap-opera-ish). I do wish Sara had said something like, “I’m sorry, too.” It just felt too much like they made Laurel the bad sister and Sara the good one, and there should have been more gray areas with both of them in terms of characterization.

        • Elizabeth says:

          Me, too, Meg. I’m sorry, but Sara owed her one hell of an apology. I don’t care if she thought Laurel deliberately interfered with her and Oliver getting together; the fact is, if Oliver were that interested, why would a little something like her getting grounded be a barrier? There was no justification.

          I did agree with Oliver in that Laurel HAS blamed everyone else but herself for the parts that were her fault. Yes, she was absolutely owed apologies she did not get, and I could even see why events hurt her — she wasn’t enough to keep her parents together after Sara disappeared, the fact that she was still alive didn’t keep her father from drinking — but one thing she did find out was that while Sara’s disappearance was probably the straw that broke the marriage, Sara’s return did *not* have the power to just fix everything. Therefore, Sara’s disappearance probably wasn’t what caused all those problems; it was just the most obvious one.

          Keep in mind, I’m not letting Sara off the hook. I especially think Sara was just beyond tactless for bringing Oliver. (And I’m glad at least that he did try to get out of it, and Felicity basically kicked him out of the lair. Go Felicity!)

          But the way Laurel chose to deal with everything *was* her choice and responsibility, and she doesn’t have the right to blame others for that. She can’t blame others for choosing to drink or steal her father’s pain meds (and that’s kind of low) or drug herself up and lose her job, and then refuse to admit she’s got a problem. So basically, problems: No, not Laurel’s fault, and she absolutely was owed apologies she didn’t get, and why she was apologizing to Sara was just frakkin’ beyond me. But the drink,drugs and job loss? All in Laurel’s court.

          That said, Oliver was hardly the ideal person to deliver that message. At all. Ever.

          On the plus side, Felicity did do awesomely good against Tockman. I just wish we’d seen more of that. Now, maybe we won’t be subjected to any more of the Lance family drama, which I just abhor. About the only thing it’s good for is a chance for me to go get a drink and not miss anything of importance. I just like Papa Lance.

    • SJB says:

      This! Everything you say, I’ve been thinking. I gave up on the sad mess that Castle has become, and now Arrow seems a different show than before the hiatus. I’m beginning to feel cursed!

  8. murley says:

    Ok I hate to be this person but this is a huge pet peeve of mine: Patty is NOT a diminutive for Patrick. Patty is for Patricia and PADDY is for Patrick. If you could fix this for my sanity that would be awesome. Thank you!

  9. Beth says:

    Jones better keep her eyes off Casey. I don’t think they were bickering during the exchange at Molly’s, in fact I thought it was great when Dawson said she and Casey were everything.

  10. +1 says:

    What about Jarley

  11. Alia says:

    Re: Stiles and Malia: “This is a ‘ship everyone can get behind”? Can’t say I agree. I mean, there’s the part where Malia is still mentally a little girl, and the part where they’re both messed up enough at the moment to be in a mental hospital (icky consent issues arise here), and then there’s the part where Stiles is already half of at least two other much more popular, much longer-standing ‘ships. I get why the writers did this, but I think they’ll have a hard time convincing some of the diehards that it was a good idea.

  12. A says:

    Oliver and Sara (Saliver?) are too similar for me…I prefer Olicity

  13. Mary says:

    Look, I’m no fan of Laurel but even I understand why Laurel would be livid finding out about Oliver and Sara. I’m not up to date on the eps but come on, this makes Oliver look like a complete douche.

    • GildedRose says:

      Seriously, Mary. Right there with you. Not that this made me like Laurel because I still don’t care. But the all over the place story and its impact on Oliver just annoys me. They’re ruining a great character with this junk. If he wasn’t the main point of the show I might be okay with it but he is the main point. He’s Arrow. If I don’t like him… what’s the point?

      • Mary says:

        Yep. In season 1, you really felt for Oliver and his “journey” to make things right. But this whole going back to sleeping with the sister of the girl who was supposedly the love of your life, not cool man.

      • Elizabeth says:

        Yeah, you nailed it, GR. I almost stopped watching before they introduced Digg and Felicity with him because he was just (in Jenny Crusie’s terms) a humorless b*stard. With them, we started to see instead someone who had gone through Purgatory and was trying as best he could to try to rebuild himself into someone better. Now, that’s someone I can get behind.

        But now? I think I could like Sara, depending on how they work her into the Team Arrow dynamic (and provided she doesn’t become the alpha female instead of Felicity, because she’s just too much like Oliver to provide the same kind of interaction interest). However, I’m not so sure I like her effect on Oliver, because he’s right back to being self-centered humorless jerk. And it’s sad, because we can see that he’s capable of so much more.

    • Sasha says:

      My feelings exactly!! I dont like her but how can she not be royally pissed off? WTF do they expect? A normal person will not just roll over and accept your sister with you ex bf never mind that they had a history of cheating on you with each other.

    • Ross says:

      There is a solution to that, ship laurel away from Starling City and she wont have to be livid and useless anymore.

  14. Amy says:

    Nothing from the Originals? Hayley and Elijah are smoking!

  15. Ian says:

    I don’t ship Patrick and Kevin, Michael! And it disappoints me you do :P. He didn’t kiss Kevin back at all. But I take it from your spoilering that Patrick puts Kevin in his place in the season finale, which is a good thing. I do wonder though if that means he’ll have to quit his job if Kevin makes things too awkward, and what will become of him and Richie. I do think Patrick could be ending the season single.

    As for Reign, they’ve pretty much ruined Mary and Francis now. That hookup with Lola wasn’t something they could come back from, especially not with how entitled and hypocritical Francis is. But I’m sure after Mary finds out, she just won’t be able to help still having feelings for the spoiled manslut and the triangle will continue. You’ve got a loyal standup guy in Bash, Mary. So of course they won’t let her make the right choice. And then I’ll probably have to say goodbye to Reign, sadly. I do love the show.

    • Rook says:

      What how could you not ship Patrick and Kevin!!??!?! I mean what Kevin did was f-ed up but still, they are good together.

  16. KC says:

    I am no fan of Santana, but she so deserved that slap from Rachel. Hopefully it makes her think

    • Ally Oop says:

      I disagree. Rachel is acting like such an over dramatic diva. Santana had every right to audition to be the backup. I though Rachel blew everything way out of proportion.

  17. luvmypup says:

    I agree that this season of Arrow was supposed to be about him becoming a hero. The first half of the season really showed that. Felicity sees him as a hero and I think she and Diggle bring out the best in Oliver. I also liked how kind and caring he was to Sara in the beginning. I enjoyed her as the Canary. However, I agree with many of you that the Lance sister drama drags Oliver down. I have never liked him with Laurel, and I could even see if they wanted to write Oliver falling in love with Sara in the future (not what I want, but I could see it). However, based on Season 1 and the first half of Season 2, I can’t understand what is happening with Sara and Oliver now. It definitely does not make Oliver look like a hero. And I really liked him up to this point.

    • GildedRose says:

      There. This. Arrow’s first half of this season was so good and exactly what I wanted the show to be — focus on the hero journey, the team dynamic, etc. Bringing back all this stuff with the sisters and Oliver just ruins any progress Oliver made since the pilot. I liked Oliver too this season. Now he’s back to being the same character he was before he got on that stupid boat 6 years ago. He learned nothing from that whole experience on the island? Nothing? Then what’s the point of all of this? Sigh. Can’t Arrow go back to being the awesome show it was the first half of the season? Please?

      • JC says:

        Now he’s back to being the same character he was before he got on that stupid boat 6 years ago. ” I don’t get this argument – I honestly don’t. I get not liking his behavior, but acting like it totally reset him back to six years ago and undoes everything that’s happened since then? I can’t even wrap my brain around that idea. That one choice completely nullifies every other choice he’s made in the last six years? How does that even make sense?

        • Garnet74 says:

          I probably didn’t explain it well, JC. But the whole thing that landed him on that boat to go through everything he did was that decision with the sisters. The show basically said: he went through 5 years on the island and it changed him so that he realized the error or his ways. So now, in the present, he does the same thing with the same people. Granted, he’s not cheating, but still. It’s the same family with the same implications, with the same pain caused to the same girlfriend…… Yes, it’s so many years later but we just spent the whole first seasons listening to him lament that decision and how if he could go back and he’d have never… Then he turns around and jumps into the sack with the same person which he knows will hurt everyone involved. It made no sense.

          • JC says:

            Are GildedRose and Garnet74 the same person? *confused as to who I’m replying to here* Laurel’s not his girlfriend. Granted, it was stupid and insensitive for him to show up to that dinner in the first place. That I will agree with. Beyond that, other than Laurel, no one cares if he’s in a relationship with Sara. I sincerely doubt either Quentin or Dinah care, other than concern over Laurel. Based on Quentin’s reaction to Nyssa, I think he’d just be glad Sara has someone in her life now to care about her, and Dinah was the one who encouraged Sara to go on the boat in the first place. The only one this affects is Laurel, and it only involves Laurel to the extent that she never has had a chance to really deal with what happened between them before. What happens with them now, however, is quite candidly none of her business, and while I think she had a right to express her anger, I also think the scene at the end was acknowledging that they are now different people in a different place and she’s choosing to move on and focus on a relationship with her sister rather than something that happened six years ago. Now, obviously, YMMV, but this is how I see it, and I think Sara and Oliver’s current relationship is actually because of them being different people now, rather than them reverting to who they were before.

          • GildedRose says:

            Oops! Sorry JC! That’s what I get for logging in on a friend’s computer and not realizing it retains the other sign in name before I hit enter :(

  18. luvmypup says:

    I really enjoy Roman and Emery from Star Crossed. I hope the ratings improve. The story lines are interesting and hopefully it will just continue to get better and better. I’ve always liked Malese Jow also.

  19. Ally Oop says:

    Malia is a teenager. Yes, she has been a coyote/wolf since she was a little girl but in that time she has also been living life as an animal and probably experiencing things as well. She isn’t a little girl anymore, even psychologically.

  20. Aryn says:

    No mention of Revenge, Once Upon a Time, or Scandal couplings?? Thrilled about the Reign shout-out…LOVE that show :)

  21. annie says:

    Fingers crossed Star-Crossed makes it to season 2…this show has such great potential!!! Between Reign and Star-Crossed this year, and the other great shows (Arrow, The Originals, TVD, Supernatural, etc.) on the CW they really put out some exceptional shows! Not just for the younger gen either – I’m a mom of 2 and I’m almost 40 and I watch the CW more regularly than other networks!!!

  22. Renee says:

    I love John on the Tomorrow People, but I’m not really a fan of Cara.

  23. guest says:

    So happy about Jackson and April!

  24. Pat says:

    I too, am happy for Jackson and April, but you know that a bumpy road is probably ahead for them. It is Grey’s Anatomy and where else would you find anything but crazy drama going on.

  25. Besides Avery and Juliette there isn’t a pair on this slide show that I ship.

  26. Guest123 says:

    As much as i love Russel Tovey, I am team Patrick and Richie

  27. Mikaela says:

    Who cares about Jackson and April? What’s going on with Jo and Alex? I had a mini meltdown when he called her his fiancée. I’m worried about them after Leah (that’s who I assume filed the complaint) messed everything up.

  28. cas says:

    I never saw Oliver and Felicity as more than friends and I hated Sara’s character, actually didn’t care at all for the actress either. I actually liked Laurel and since they are probably getting rid of her and I am like 6 episodes behind I think I will just free up some DVR space and just catch it on netflix over the summer as it doesn’t sound that great anyway. Oliver sounds like an idiot and a crappy person at that.

  29. A says:

    Jackson and April FTW

    • kylie says:

      So glad they didn’t go down the route of dating and all that drama. I watched only two scenes from two episodes of Grey’s this season–the scene when Jackson says he loves her, and the one at the end of the last episode, because I heard about SPOILER…

  30. Marty says:

    Daryl & Beth

  31. Lucy says:

    Arrow needs to drop the Sisters Lance. They are toxic and are ruining what was a great show. The dynamic between Team Arrow (Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle) kept me coming back. I enjoy the action, not the romance. I HATED this last episode. I don’t like Laurel – haven’t liked her from Day One, but this episode put be in her corner. Sara is an entitled spoiled brat. I liked her the first time around, but now I just want her gone. If they had bothered to set up her and Oliver, I wouldn’t have a problem but they didn’t — and then Sara insists on throwing their relationship in Laurel’s face in her own home. Sara is condescending and patronizing to Felicity. And we are supposed to believe that a college dropout is smarter and more capable than an MIT graduate? Really? Oliver has become a complete and utter jackass. He is flat out hateful to Felicity several times – for no reason – and then he pets her like a dog. I hope Felicity finds a real man who treats her well. She deserves better — as does Laurel. Sara, however, now that I think about, she deserves Oliver. He’ll be kicking her to the curve soon.

  32. Lucy says:

    I forgot to mention that I hope Slade wipes the ground with Sara and Oliver. I’m pretty sure a superhero show has failed when you’re hoping for the Big Bad to win, but then most super hero shows don’t go out of their way to make their “heroes” hypocritical, sanctimonious assholes.

  33. Claire says:

    Thoughts on Arrow — S1 I watched, but even though I got into this show for the action, you still need a story with which to connect and Arrow didn’t have much of one. That and I liked Tommy more than Oliver — more appealing, more charismatic. I never liked the Laurel story until she was with Tommy. I LOVED the Felicity scenes though — it was like something switched on when she had her scenes. Mid season I started to REALLY LIKE — Team Arrow. It was getting better! (And for the record, I didn’t care about F & O becoming a thing — it wasn’t about shipping)

    Season 2 began and it was like they took everything they learned about doing things right from the back half of S1 and put in the beginning of S2. Things were ROLLING! I became a vested viewer. It was Team Arrow, lots of action and a little bit of Olicity (THEY threw it in and yes, I started liking) on the side. No gratuitous bed hopping, for the sake of making it a CW show. It was telling a story and it was focused on Oliver becoming a better person, Team Arrow and the action. Then we return from the hiatus to S1 under the guise of S2. My mind is boggled. What happened? Did I miss something, like perhaps a time warp?

    I get that the show runners might have felt the need to deal with the elephant in the room — Laurel. As much as I might have desired Arrow developing the Chuck Cunningham Syndrome and having her just disappear, they didn’t go that route and instead have now flung us back into S1, except now we have the added pleasure of the other Lance sister being on hand in the form of Sara aka BC. Oh joy. By the way, kudos to them for not taking the easy way out and trying to actually do something about what wasn’t working. But they get a BIG FAT “F” for making what wasn’t working and unappealing the front and center of the what WAS a good show.

    This foray down memory lane has reminded me of one thing and brought to light another. Oliver + Laurel = meh (Yes, I remember all to well) Oliver + Laurel + Sara = disaster. The Lance sisters and the Lance sister storyline are just the worst thing ever for the show and the character of Oliver. The problem for me however is that Tommy isn’t there for me to pick up the slack. So all you are left with is an unappealing Oliver, and two sisters I don’t care about. Congratulations, the show has moved from the central story of Oliver becoming a hero with a great arc of arch nemesis Slade, to a messed up attempt at SOMETHING that in no way shape or form resembles the clean beautiful image of the 1st 9 episodes. There is a big splotch over the story and I can’t make heads or tails of it.

    So if the show runners intent was to show us just how wrong the sisters are for Oliver, well they did a smashing job. Unfortunately the show is almost unrecognizable at this point. I truly liked Sara when she first returned. I felt a solid friendship between Oliver and her, and I felt she and Felicity would be great friends. And then she became this plot devise for shock value — like they remembered they were on the CW network. As a viewer it made no sense.

    So in two episodes they have taken likable Sara and made her trump all the other likable characters that made the first half of the season so enjoyable. She is like Oliver in fighting and better than Diggle in doing so, she is better than Felicity apparently, and better than Dr. House too for that matter, being able to identify a rare disease in less time than it took Hugh Laurie! But that’s okay, Sara gave her thumbs up to Felicity being “still cute.” Well THAT was a winning moment. o.O The problem is, is that while they are having Sara trump all the likable characters, THOSE CHARACTERS made Oliver likable. So what we are left with is unappealing Oliver. Am I redundant? Yes. But sometimes redundancy hammers home the truth, and I hate to see bad things happen to a show I was really enjoying.

    If they wanted to give Oliver another love interest FINE! But did they HAVE to make it the other flipping sister AGAIN? Why? Is he NOT capable of having a friendship with another of his caliber. They went there before and the Gambit went down, they decided to go there again and well, they may very well tank the show as far as I’m concerned. It didn’t work in S1 why in the WORLD would they think it would work in S2? I’m not going down the poor Laurel route with this, because quite frankly I didn’t care S1 and I DON’T care S2. I’m going down the whole “oh, poor FIRST HALF of the season” route, because THAT is the true victim in this whole mess.

    If they were going to take us back to S1 to wrap things up, they could have at least been kind about it and made it short lived. I can only hope things change soon. I will be and have been a cheerleader for this show, which is why I am coming down on it now. I hate to see good shows derail.

    P.S. Did I mention making Sara a BARTENDER? In a NIGHTclub — operative word being NIGHT. Isn’t that when they go gallivanting around saving Starling City? To me, this is where it shows they are more interested in throwing in Easter Eggs like her having previously tended bar in the Oblivion Bar than worrying about uhhh credibility. Yes, Roy works there as well, but last I checked he was stocking shelves or something, not front and center AT A BAR serving drinks.