Way Ghul: Arrow Drops a Couple of Big Names

Arrow Recap Vigilante Now Called ArrowIt took 25-1/2 episodes, but The CW’s Arrow finally went there this Wednesday night.

Midway through Season 2’s third episode, in which an escaped loon set out to turn porcelain-skinned young women into, well, porcelain-y dolls, police officer Quentin Lance called Oliver Queen’s alter ego the A-word.

“Last year you were working with the Arrow — what difference does a few months make?” Quentin said to his daughter Laurel. Her response: “The Arrow?” “Yeah,” he shrugged. “Seems more appropriate than ‘the Hood.'”

Makes the long, lonnnng wait to get even “the Blur,” let alone the S-word, seem so… silly, doesn’t it?

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Elsewhere in the “Broken Dolls” episode: The Arrow sicced sidekick Roy Harper on the masked, leather-clad blonde who’s been whaling on abusive men (and who saved Oliver’s bacon when surrounded by the Starling City PD). Roy’s efforts got him a few whacks to the head, as he trailed a street tough named Sin to the mystery woman’s “lair.”  At episode’s end, it was revealed that this woman (let’s you and I call her “Black Canary,” OK?) is being summoned by Ra’s Al Ghul, probably as a member of the League of Assassins — but she ups and kills the messenger.

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Also, Laurel, after dodging her own doll-like fate, came to realize that she, not the Arrow, was partly responsible for Tommy’s tragic fate, seeing as she stubbornly refused to vacate the CNRI office in the Glades when advised to — leaving the door open for her lover to try to save her mid-Undertaking. Nice little bit of acting/waterworks by Katie Cassidy.

What did you think of this week’s Arrow and the new glimpses of Black Canary?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. WayneInNYC says:

    IMO – It was one of the best episodes in the series thus far.

  2. Lauren says:

    Would have been nice to have been told how he got out of his predicament…

    • M3rc Nate says:

      In this article? Or this episode? Cause at the beginning of this episode it showed how…the Black Canary dropped in and used her “Canary Cry” to disorient everyone and get Green Arrow out of the predicament.

  3. Khorrie says:

    Wow. A woman is to blame for the death of a man because she made her own decision and therefore he needed to “save” her? Massive, massive fail.

    And no, the wait on Smallville doesn’t seem unwarranted, seeing as how the premises are entirely and completely different, but keep beating that dead horse comparison.

    • Josh says:

      The Arrow has some horribly written female characters. Felicity is the best written but that’s only because she’s “nerd wet dream”…a hot, smart, nerdy girl who’s just some geeky and awkward but can also look oh so good in a tight dress.

      • I don’t know about that. Moira’s always been pretty well written and Thea’s improved by leaps and bounds since las season. Really it’s only Laurel that’s pretty much useless at this point.

        • Alichat says:

          This. A thousand times this regarding Laurel.

          • Rook says:

            While I agree, I thought this was a good episode for Laurel. Probably one of her best.

          • Ross Cooper says:

            Agree, good Laurel ep in that she finally accepted that she was responsible for Tommy’s death. Maybe she can be more than the damsel now.

          • LSJ says:

            I think the writer’s just don’t know what to do with Laurel. They can’t have her end up with Oliver too soon in the series (although I would personally prefer it if Ollie ends up with Felicity, forget comic canon, they are always inconsistent anyways) or reveal her as the Black Canary in the second season (which, I think would be out of character for the way in which the writer’s have set up Laurel in the show).

          • MJ says:

            True indeed – only female character that I do not care for is Laurel – poorly written, serious lack of chemistry between her and the title character, makes poor choices, is supposed to be a lawyer, defender of the underdog but runs around like a helpless victim,,I can go on like this indefinitely.

        • dude says:

          I don’t see an improvement in Thea at all. She manages a night club…great. What does she add to this show exactly? This entire series could exist without her.

        • JC says:

          Agreed. I enjoy all the female characters except Laurel. Moira, Thea, Felicity and Shado are all great, and Sin and the new Canary look very promising. It’s only Laurel, still, that is the problem. I was a little bit hopeful after the premiere – I thought she had some good scenes there – but now not so much. Maybe her breakdown over her guilt over Tommy’s death would have affected me more if it had felt earned, but it just felt forced to me.

      • dude says:

        Moira is definitely the most fully-realized character and probably the only female on the show who’s an actual character. Felicity, Laurel and Thea are all consistently just damsels in distress who dress pretty and I’d actually say Felicity is the worst offender of this since she seems to get off on Oliver saving her. Laurel has on-occasion been able to defend herself and Thea is a big nothing but Felicity is more of a plot-hole filler (thanks to her cyber skills) who gets put in danger/saved by Oliver on a weekly basis than an actual character. Arrow is severely lacking in strong female characters and I doubt the re-emergence of Sarah Lance will be much better.

        • Mavell says:

          @dude – Ditto

          Especially about Felicity, this fandom is hard on other female characters and pretend like Felicity is written all perfectly when there are also a lot of problems with her writing and as a character, if not much more. But the fandom has a huge nergasm over her and other characters like her, good to see there are some people out there who do not put this character on a pedestal.

        • M3rc Nate says:

          I think it has to be said that not every female in the world is a strong, powerful, thick spined, un-needing of help, badass, smart, feminist, self empowered woman. Some are helpless, unintelligent, needy, get off on being saved, weak willed, weak spined…etc (Btw all that applies to men as well).

          My point being how many people do you meet at work and school and friends of friends and in society today that you are like “really? this is all there is to you? Shopping and boys? Or cars and sex?” ….hipsters, and many many other sheep that just buy into fads and styles and doing things the same as everyone else. So since when do we need every female character on TV to be like this ultra feminist that needs no man etc?

          We like to trash the female characters all the time for being 2 dimensional and poorly written, but how well written is Diggle? Hes a big hunk of muscles that gives small time Yoda style wisdom and is a mega powerful former soldier/body guard. What is Roy? A badass ripped gonna be hero who can totally handle himself and is a pro at parkour etc. So there seem to be almost just as many Men that are playing roles to get women all hot and heavy (dont forget for every hot Laurel/Felicity in a dress theres 3 Oliver/Diggle shirtless sweating) as there are women playing roles to get guys all heated.

          Dont get me wrong im playing devils advocate. I do think the writing needs to be stepped up BUT it is on the CW so im not expecting a ton. I mean what was Lana on Smallville? A constant damsel there to be rescued by Clark and a plot device for him to experience a crush/GF/Love/Jealousy/etc..But hey the show was about Clark Kent, it wasnt the Lana Lang show. The show is called Arrow and it focuses on Oliver Queens story.

          • Josh says:

            Just to point out, Smallville had Chloe. She was never in skin tight, hot girl outfits. Alison Mack is pretty but a drop dead blond, gorgeous woman. She’s just a beautiful woman. Yeah Lana was a pathetic damsel, and yes Chloe needed to be saved, but I never felt like they degrade the Chloe character like they did say Lois, who towards the final seasons it was like “Hmm, how can we show her boobs?”

        • Helena says:

          I hate Felicity 2.0. I don’t know what they are doing with her anymore. She is just there, complaining about everything and being a b*tch, she is not even funny anymore. They’re trying so bad tease the fans about Olicity that they are ruining her. Everything that made her likeable last season is gone now.

          • Mi says:

            Sorry, I don’t see it. I like her characterization.

          • brenna says:

            I love Felicity Season 1 and Season 2. What makes her so fun and not like many of the others, is that we see many sides to her and Emily plays them all really well. She absolutely doesn’t seem helpless. She’s a big help to the team. She’s just not as physical as the rest of them, which is a nice change. Every character can’t be a super hero or super villain.

        • Jessica says:

          This is a comic book show…of course there are going to be women in distress. I am so sick of it being “wrong” for women to want to be saved by men. It doesn’t make a woman weak or stupid and I think that Felicity is adorable and sweet and a little fragile and there is nothing wrong with that. She also has a little thing for the Arrow/Oliver so of course she is going to swoon when he saves her. She also consistently steps up to be bait even if it could get her killed and she is wicked smart so I don’t think that makes her weak. I think that Thea is getting stronger and more independent. She will take time to figure out who she is and where she belongs as she is only 18. Women are dammed if they do and dammed if they don’t.

          • Summer says:

            Yeah, there will be. Laurel Lance should NOT be one of them. They completely degraded her character in this. They had a real chance to write her as anything but Lana Lang with a law degree, but they completely missed out. And yes, they’re working on improving her character now with the Black Canary storyline, but it’s an insult to fans of the character that they’ve written her so terribly all this while.

      • LPala says:

        I like Shado too. There just aren’t many island scenes. I wish there were more. Moira is well written, she’s one of my favorites. I don’t think it’s the writer’s fault about Laurel as much as bad acting. Come to think of it, none of the characters except for Oliver, either male or female, have been given a lot of depth so far. But they are slowly developing more depth to each character. I just wish Laurel would go away for five years.

    • Fan says:

      When did it become wrong to save someone’s life whether they be male or female? Laurel was an idiot and Tommy saved her. Yes she is to blame. Sometimes people make stupid mistakes, Tommy lost his life fixing hers.

      • Khorrie says:

        If you choose to put yourself at risk to rescue the damsel in distress then the blame is all on you, not the distressed damsel.

        • M3rc Nate says:

          I dont think she was a damsel to him. She was someone he loved and accepted he might die protecting, but she feels SURVIVORS GUILT…hello. It usually ISNT logical or correct. But in this case it is wrong, because even if the character who died saving her life was Thea (a female) it was still her stubbornness that got that person killed. There is a implied level of risk that you accept when you love someone that you might risk your life to save them. It shouldnt be a shocker someone who loves you would die trying to save you. So is it legally or even ethically her fault? No. But the catalyst for his death was her deciding to stay.

          Your looking at this is way to sexist of a viewpoint. Oliver has been saved before by men and women, he has been weak and became strong, Laurel is going to become strong and become Black Canary…sometimes people need help. Sometimes people need their lives saved. If you decide to stay in a building when there is going to be a 8.0 earthquake…do you not expect someone in your family or your boyfriend or husband to run in and try to save you? Or you think they will stand outside and not go in and say “She made her decision, if she dies its her fault. Shes a feminist she doesnt want to be saved by a man, shes no damsel.”? lol. Id hope not.

          • Locke says:

            Mr Nate, you also forget that Tommy was no longer Laurel’s boyfriend, they weren’t even speaking to each other, you know Tommy broke up with her and didnt want anything to do with her. Seriously you all act now like he was some kind of saint that could do no wrong, and the nerve for the show to use Laurel to make him look like a hero, shouldn’t you be thanking her. The writers made Laurel look bad just so they could make Tommy some kind of hero. Instead of taking the heat for killing off the character with his fans, they transferred that responsibility to one of their characters, despite it not making sense whatsoever. At that point in time, Laurel owed Tommy nothing, he had chosen to be out of her life, so how was she supposed to know he was going to come looking for her again and she never seeked him when she got in trouble. All of you who are defending this, you are choosing to forget that Tommy also made his choices, were is the accountability in that. Do you honestly wonder why some of us are saying this is sexist with this kind of thinking.

        • Marc says:

          Come on, Tommy loves the woman, if he had left her to die, Laurel wasn’t just some random person trapped in a crumbling building, she was somneone that he loved and if he had left her to fend for herself, then he would have been labeled the cold hearted coward who didn’t lift a finger to help someone in need. But I am glad that the writers finally had Laurel saying what most of us felt, that it was because of her stupid actions that Tommy ended up dead.

          • Khorrie says:

            Thanks for making my point in your last sentence. I’m not arguing about Tommy being sexist (he wasn’t) or Laurel not having the right to feel guilty about what happened (she does), I’m arguing against the message the show itself is sending. And yes, that message is blatantly sexist.

        • Alan says:

          yeah the blame is totally tommy’s for trying to save the woman he loved for her unbelievably idiotic decision to stay in an area which she knows will be falling down around her soon, yeah totally his fault.

    • Zak says:

      She didn’t listen to people warning her to get out of the city. He came to make sure she got out and died saving her. Has nothing to do with her being a women or him being a man. It’s what happen and it makes sense she would feel guilt that her being stubborn and not leaving led to the death of someone she loved. Your argument is idiotic at best.

    • Badpenny says:

      I don’t believe you and I watched the same episodes…

    • ben says:

      I don’t care what gender you are. If you put yourself in a life or death position your closest love ones are probably going to try and get you out of it. If you have put yourself knowingly in that stupid position and you thus cause one of your loved ones to die, wouldn’t you feel at least partially responsible for that?
      Did you even watch the show? Laurel didn’t need saving from ‘potential’ danger. Tommy didn’t save her under some masculine pretense that she needed saving and get himself killed. Laurel actually did need saving. She would have died. If your idea of liberation is that you should be left to die, well I think it is one not many would share.

      • Khorrie says:

        Laurel made her choice. Tommy chose not to respect it. I get that there’s ~love~ involved and all that crap, but in no way is Laurel to blame for Tommy’s decision to put himself in danger to save her. Tommy is the one responsible for Tommy’s death and for the show to assign part of the blame on Laurel (who yes, would naturally feel guilty about it) in seriousness, ie, without having someone there to comfort her and tell her how wrong she was, then that is a major and sexist failure.

        • ben says:

          And if it was a mother was doing the same for her son, is that a sexist failure too?

        • Ross Cooper says:

          It’s simple cause and effect, not sexual politics. Regardless of the ‘freedom of choice’ argument, would Tommy have died if Laurel evacuated the Glades? No, therefore her choice directly affected his choice, which resulted in his death.

        • Marc says:

          Not her crying out for help? Why do people who are in mortal danger do that? Because they are wishing that someone out there would interpret cries of help, for “stay away, no self sacrifices please”. It’s a natural instinct to want to help the people who you love. It has nothing to do with Laurel being a woman and Tommy, the guy saving her, replace her with Oliver being trapped and it would have been the same thing.

    • I love a good feminist cause as much as the next person, and I’m not sure saying it’s Laurel’s “fault” is fair, but you don’t think if she were a guy she would get torn up just as much? Look how Oliver feels about what happened to Sarah, and Tommy, and neither are really his fault, at least not as much as the many people he killed last season’s deaths were directly his fault. She blamed Arrow because it made her feel better, now she’s blaming herself because she feels guilty; at some point she’ll probably accept that it was still Tommy’s choice to run into the building, which would be the acceptance stage. I don’t think that’s being anti-feminist. I think that’s just how people work sometimes. But of course, that’s just my opinion.

      • ben says:

        Yah. Trying to pretend like Laurel wouldn’t feel any guilt or blame for it would be a much bigger failure – a failure of actual reality.

    • Bear in mind as well that this is a superhero story based off of characters who run around saving each other from incredibly improbable dangers. If no one needed rescuing, this would be a pretty boring show.

    • sonic says:

      Laurel is a lawyer idiots she will always be needed in this show as is her expertise, in case you havent realise the show deals with Justice. The show can sure as hell do without Felicity who is just hanging around with zero backstory or story whatsoever, Diggle and Oliver are very capable of handling the IT/Tech duties as they have done all along without Felicity. Now all she is doing is taking most of Diggle’s screentime.

      But the real culprit is the show’s writing or lack of for female characters, that some dont want to admit that their “star” show has got some real problems.

    • Netron says:

      Khorrie _ I agree with you there, for an episode that was talking about women’s choices, they did a 180 there, and completely did the opposite with Laurel, taking away her choices. Im disappointed too seems they were listening to fans and their interpretation of what happened in the season finale. of course many of them hate her and unfairly blamed Laurel for Tommy choosing to be a white knight for her despite being a lousy boyfriend most of the season, and getting himself killed, now it seems the writers are doing this to please the fans, and proving them right.

      She isnt the only one affected by this kind of lousy writing for female characters, even Felicity is not immune.

    • Patrick says:

      Yep. She was told by multiple people in the know to get out of the Glades. She didn’t. If it hadn’t been Tommy, it might have been some first responder. She disregarded very good advice and someone died as a result. Her fault.

    • B says:

      Ahh, Yes, keep playing that victim card on behalf of women everywhere. And let’s just ignore the fact that Arrow’s own butt was saved by a woman in the same episode, and only focus on the part that you find sexist. Never mind the fact that the ONLY person blaming the damsel, is the damsel herself.

  4. Fox says:

    Great episode. Totally psyched over the mention of Ra’s Al Ghul.

  5. Laura Aliaga says:

    Ten bucks says Black Canary is Sara Lance.

    • Zak says:

      That’s been confirmed for months.

      • Alichat says:

        It’s even on IMDB…..been there for weeks.

        • Davey Elmer says:

          “That’s been confirmed for months.”

          I seriously doubt that.

          “It’s even on IMDB…..been there for weeks.”

          I’m sorry, but IMDB is not a credible source of information.

          • M3rc Nate says:

            Well it would make sense. It fits the pieces of the puzzle together. Besides the Sara flashbacks by a certain actress…everything fits. Her obsession with Green Arrow/Oliver because she knows its him cause Ras knows and Black Canary worked/trained by whatever with Ras. Shes in Starling City to protect women from men (so far) … maybe something to do with how she betrayed her sister by sleeping with her boyfriend? Or something else. And the big one, how Laurel becomes the Black Canary? The most organic believable way i could see Laurel become the Black Canary is if the BC is her sister. And either Sara trains her then dies and Laurel takes up the mantle in her honor, or Laurel finds out, and Sara dies then Laurel takes up her mantle and Oliver trains her. I would guess the former not the latter.

            Its not a PERFECT fit cause we dont know a LOT (island scenes aka back story of both Oliver and whoever BC is). But i doubt with how they had Sara “die” (aka we didnt see her die, and she was near the island too, could have gotten to the surface for air, swam to shore or carried by waves then the bad guys grab her and take her to Ras or someone who knows him). they would just let that go to waste. No way they just say officially thats how she died. Of course they take advantage and bring her back and shes alive…but how to bring her back? As the Black Canary! and thats how Laurel ends up the BC she becomes it cause her sister dies fighting the good fight. (Example of thinking process of writers).

          • Alichat says:

            Actually, Zak is correct. The president of CW confirmed it back in late July. And while IMDB may not be 100% credible, 9 times out of 10, the information is correct.

      • Luis says:

        Officially making the “Queen’s Gambit” the least successful premeditated boat murder in history, not counting the crew (though Lord knows if one of them will turn out to be a masked vigilante at some point!)

  6. Zak says:

    This episode had a lot. Black Canary scream, Ra, League of Shaodws, learned how Deathstroke lost vision in his eye, Amazo, and next week looks like Scarecrow.

  7. Jenna says:

    I love Laurel and she was awesome in this episode. It was a beautiful moment between her and Quentin.
    People can hate her, but she’s so important for this show that I bet they’ll have to learn how to love her.

  8. Nicole says:

    And we saw Slade’s face on fire :( He’s on the road to putting back on his mask.

    Wonder at what point in time we’re in with the League of Assassins? Could Jason Todd be a part of it and come to the show as Red Hood. He’s not a super villain but prety hard core and would fit into the realness of the show.

  9. TV Gord says:

    Meanwhile, on Revenge this week, the REAL Arrow kissed a dude!

  10. Brian says:

    Great ep. Totally disagree on the Laurel part of the recap, though. That was brutal to watch. I know she’s not going anywhere, but I could not care about a character less. She drives me crazy. But I do enjoy the crap out of this show.

    • dude says:

      Then you’re so blinded by hatred that you can’t recognized a good performance. You stans are pretty lame.

      • Ross Cooper says:

        It’s sadly normal for viewers to turn against the grounded women in a show, especially those who are seen to stand in the way of the male ‘hero’. Can we call it the Skyler effect?

        • Brian says:

          Don’t even know that I’d call her grounded, Ross Cooper. In fact I think I’d classify Felicity, Thea and even Shado and Moira Queen as more grounded than LL. Just one guy’s opinion, though. Call it whatever effect you’d like…

      • Brian says:

        Ahahahahahahahahahaha!! “Hatred”? Where the hell do you get hatred from, you big goof? I actually do not care about the character of Laurel enough to work up any hatred over her. But I’m sure Katie Cassidy appreciates you scouring the internet for any negative comments, no matter how small they may be, and then laying the smack down. Keep up the good job! You are doing God’s work. And I would comment on your second sentence if I could figure out what the hell it means. Thanks for the laugh. Take it easy, dude.

  11. sladewilson says:

    Please, God NOT Jason Todd. Anyone but him. Talia, Ra’s himself, Amanda Waller, Nightwing, Cassandra Cain – ANYONE but should’ve been deader than a doornail Jason Todd. I voted for that annoying little punk to get offed by the Joker just to have Judd Winick bring him back in the LAMEST of all possible ways. UGH…. Make me smile, bring in Richard Grayson or better yet Carter Hall and lets really have some fun…

  12. James D says:

    Oh Snap Ras-Al-Ghul is involved and she (who i’m sorry i refuse to refer to her as BC) is part of the League of Assassins that’s pretty sweet. good episode, i’ll forgive the fact that the doll dude got a arrow in his shoulder and went about his buisness like nothing happened. and the fact that Quintin spent nearly the whole episode with Oliver and couldn’t tell who he was, yes he’s hooded and dark but still that was a very big leap of faith, i guess you only see what you want to see.

    • Alan says:

      you dont have to call her black canary because all the promotional material ive seen has called her just the canary.
      quentin is doing the jim gordon thing now so he is ignoring whatever evidence he can see (hell diggle was walking around during the sting and quentin didnt even ask why olivers bodyguard was there) to protect the guy who gets results.

  13. Sparky says:

    Can someone fill me in on who blondie in leather is? Also Ras-Al Ghul….as in Batmans mentor or am I wrong on that too?

    • steven says:

      Yep, it’s that Ra’s al Ghul.

    • James D says:

      She is supposed to be some version of the Black Canary which should really be Laurel, at least she’s the Black Canary from the comics. Ras-Al Ghul is the leader of the League of Assassins and Batman’s mentor, Liam Neisson from the Movie. hope that helped :)

      • person says:

        I believe the canon of Black Canary is that there are two different identities, first Dinah Drake, and then her daughter Dinah Laurel Lance, the more famous Black Canary. This sounds like Arrow’s own spin on the origin story where Sara starts as the Black Canary before Laurel grows into the role as the real one.

        • Ross Cooper says:

          Yeah, it’s pretty obviously Sara, but I wonder if she knows Oliver is Arrow, I would reckon so at this point.

        • James D says:

          You’re absolutely right about Dinah Drake. I’m not sure they’re going to go the Sara route, it’s entirely possible but considering Oliver saw her drowning (if I remember the pilot correctly) and wouldn’t he recognize her face when he saw her in tonight’s episode. then again it would make sense why she went after the Doll dude to save Laurel, so maybe you’re on to something. :)

  14. Brad says:

    Wonder what Moira’s lawyer’s last name is, her first name is Jean? Could it be Loring. That is another big name from the DC Universe. The Atom’s ex-wife was possessed by Black Diamond of Eclipso. And at least three references to 52 (a little too much of that).

    • ChrisGa says:

      Not to mention the name of the Dollmaker’s lawyer–Tony Daniel, who’s been one of DC’s primary artists/writers for the last 7-8 years now.

    • Alan says:

      yep thats jean loring. and yes the 52 stuff is ridiculous but you get used to it following the comics, dc has an unhealthy fixation on the number.

  15. enri says:

    Great show…just can’t stand Laurel to the point I fast forward through her scenes.

    • Sarah says:

      Completely agree – Laurel is just painfully boring, vanilla, stiff and a whole host of other unexciting adjectives. To me the best scenes far and away are the ones involving Oliver, Diggle and Felicity together – Emily Bett Rickards especially was just a terrific find by them

      • Locke says:

        Like someone said you are going to learn to love her, because she isn’t going anywhere.

        • Karen says:

          Just because she’s not going anywhere doesn’t mean we have to learn to love her. She’s just such a terrible character. I hope she was better in the comics otherwise I just don’t get why anyone likes her.

        • Auntie Ralph says:

          Watched Smallville for all ten seasons, never loved Lana. I guess ten years (well eight) isn’t enough for Stockholm Syndrome to set in.

          • PB says:

            Kreuk was only on for 7 season (besides a cameo). Lana was a good character for about 3 seasons and then the writers didn’t know what to do with her…..leading to the unfortunate and totally ridiculous “Witch Season” which basically destroyed her character. Definitely a writer’s issue.

  16. Garnet74 says:

    Fantastic episode of Arrow. I’m enjoying a lot of the characters that annoyed me in the first season much more this year, like Thea and Roy. Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle are always great as a team, and I really enjoyed watching Quentin join that dynamic by working with Oliver and Felicity. The action is always terrific on Arrow and I love all the little hints of things to come. I found the twist on the island intriguing. I think that will be a neat shift in the storytelling too.

    As for rescues & damsels in distress… that doesn’t bother me. How boring a show would it be if everybody could flawlessly and unerringly save themselves all the time? None of these women are helpless, clearly, and they return the favor with the men in saving their lives on occasion too. I thought it was great, tonight, that Felicity stepped up to be bait and managed to handle herself pretty well. But yeah, danger & rescues… that just makes for fun tv watching.

  17. Redhood says:

    The only interesting character in this show is Roy and he is the one that needs to be the Arrow sidekick.

    Felicity and Diggle are completely useless and boring characters. And don’t get me started on Thea.

    • Ross Cooper says:

      Yes, they’re ‘useless’, an army vet with extensive hand-to-hand and firearms training and a remarkably intelligent covert operative/computer hacker… what you mean is that they’re not white guys, who are the only useful people, regardless of the fact that Roy loses 90% of his fights and only became a ‘hero’ because he feels crushing guilt for all the lives he ruined via his one-man crimewave.

      • RedHood says:

        LOL PLEASE Roy is still far more important than them, sorry but its true.

        And this isnt about being a white dude, I would much prefer Shado, Walter and many other POC and female characters to be there regularly than these two overrated characters, who dont serve much purpose in the show, nothing much they do that Oliver/Arrow could not have done by himself. Felicity/Diggle are the least interesting because all they do is cling and hang around Oliver, and have no life and story of their own.

    • Helena says:

      I agree. Felicity and Diggle shouldn’t be Arrow’s team. They worked last season, but I am not seeing this now. Maybe because they are more worried about doing things to tease Olicity than telling us why Diggle and Felicity are important. And Diggle can’t even talk anymore because all his lines now are Felicity’s lines.

    • John 1138 says:

      Roy? He got put on the sidelines out of the way by Arrow for good reason: SO not ready for prime time.

  18. Abby says:

    Season two has been great, and I really enjoyed Lance in this episode. I was iffy on him last season, but this was a good episode for him. I also enjoyed the additions of Syn and the Black Canary. I know Laurel will probably eventually become Canary on the show, but I really wish we could keep this one. It also leaves me questioning if Canary trained with the same people as Malcolm did.

    As for Laurel in the waterworks…I have never seen her cry. Yes, she gets close to it, but I have never seen her shed a tear.Maybe I’m not looking close enough, but I thought it was strategic placement with Lance hiding her as she “cried” into him.

    • Zath says:

      This canary is Helena 2.0 only worse, she is just nuts.

      • Alan says:

        “just nuts”. so far she has only killed bad guys, saved lots of women from people who wanted to hurt them, and hasnt caused any grief for oliver in either of his identities; so far she is basically the anti-helena.

  19. M3rc Nate says:

    I dont know yet how i feel about the Black Canary’s “Canary Cry” being technological. I think its okay and its pretty cool (though i doubt scientific, both in the technology to make that powerful of a audible sound so small and the hearing protection she would need to be not effected like the cops were would look funny..her with earplugs in and shooting ear protection on).

    But i swear…if they try to go “realistic” with the Flash….im going to flip a table. lol. I get it, your inspired by (kinda ripping off) Nolans Batman world where everything is realistic. In some ways thats great just like with Nolan, in other ways its annoying just like with Nolan. Bane as just a 6’1 tall buff guy? meh. Smallville over indulged in powered beings (kyrptonite exposure) and they had insane ratings for 11 seasons. I get Arrow is a different creative style but…i just hope they arent holding the “keep it realistic” too hard and it ends up being a double edged sword. Flash needs super speed, and you can eventually bring in Green Lantern (as Hal) in season 7 and have the close friendship they have in the comics on screen. But he needs his ring and powers…even if you cant afford to show them with CGI.

    • Alan says:

      dont you know warner brothers is ashamed of the fact that they make things based on comics so they spend most of their time trying to run as far away from the comic book aspects as possible.

  20. Davey Elmer says:

    “Well it would make sense. It fits the pieces of the puzzle together. Besides the Sara flashbacks by a certain actress…everything fits. Her obsession with Green Arrow/Oliver because she knows its him cause Ras knows and Black Canary worked/trained by whatever with Ras. Shes in Starling City to protect women from men (so far) … maybe something to do with how she betrayed her sister by sleeping with her boyfriend? Or something else. And the big one, how Laurel becomes the Black Canary? The most organic believable way i could see Laurel become the Black Canary is if the BC is her sister. And either Sara trains her then dies and Laurel takes up the mantle in her honor, or Laurel finds out, and Sara dies then Laurel takes up her mantle and Oliver trains her. I would guess the former not the latter.

    Its not a PERFECT fit cause we dont know a LOT (island scenes aka back story of both Oliver and whoever BC is). But i doubt with how they had Sara “die” (aka we didnt see her die, and she was near the island too, could have gotten to the surface for air, swam to shore or carried by waves then the bad guys grab her and take her to Ras or someone who knows him). they would just let that go to waste. No way they just say officially thats how she died. Of course they take advantage and bring her back and shes alive…but how to bring her back? As the Black Canary! and thats how Laurel ends up the BC she becomes it cause her sister dies fighting the good fight. (Example of thinking process of writers).”

    That’s not confirmation; it’s speculation (logical speculation, maybe, but speculation nonetheless).

    • Mars521 says:

      Problem is that both of these ways that Laurel becomes Black Canary are incredibly weak. Black Canary IS one of the most gifted, most dangerous martial artists in the DC Universe. Arrow!Black Canary has spent the better part of five years training under the famed League of Assassins, developing her martial skills and becoming an incredibly adept fighter and killer. Laurel is none of these, and she doesn’t have time to become them either, unless she flat out just leaves the show for a few seasons while she brushes up on her fighting skills.

      The “Oliver trains Laurel so she becomes Black Canary” path is quite possibly the worst idea ever. Black Canary, whoever she may be, is superior to Oliver in hand to hand/melee combat full stop. No questions asked. At close range, she utterly destroys Oliver. How is a Black Canary who is taught by Oliver supposed to do that?

      And if Black Canary teaches Laurel, then that’ll be so many seasons of Laurel being a rank beginner while Black Canary is being awesome and kicking tons of ass. So if Black Canary is being so awesome for so long, why would the audience want to see her killed off so that an inferior copy takes her place?

      They made a mistake with Laurel from the beginning. Laurel should never have been introduced from the pilot, instead she should have been introduced as this Black Canary was as a formed ass-kicker, if not a fully formed superhero. Probably with Caity Lotz (who is known for her dance and martial arts experience) playing her. This Black Canary shouldn’t be killed off just because she doesn’t have the right name.

      • JC says:

        Agreed 100%. All of this.

      • Marc says:

        ^YES!!!!!! That is all.

      • PB says:

        I think this is a good comment. They’ve tried to show Laurel in some scenarios where you see here spunk, athleticism, and amateur fighting skills, but it won’t be enough to be credible. Laurel wouldn’t have to leave for 5 years, but she would need to start training and then have a long break. Like a 2 year break where she disappears. I agree it’s a major problem and partly why I hope the show goes away from “canon” and writes the characters differently. This is the Green Arrow and while it has it’s own universe, story, and following, it doesn’t have to kowtow to the canon like something that is more ingrained in pop culture like Supes or Batman. Even those stories should be able to be told differently. Laurel doesn’t need to become BC in this version. There was no “Robin” in Nolan’s version of Batman. There was no Chloe in Smallville’s version of Superman. I want these writers to have freedom to makes choices that serve this story’s best interests and sometimes that means mixing things up. Right now, that may mean that the BC story is different than the comics.

        • M3rc Nate says:

          It would suck for the actress but i think i have to agree. It just really seems the writers dont know what to do with Laurel (at least yet) and thats not her fault, except a lot of the fans argue on wanting her to be gone and that shes not a good actress. And im really liking Lotz. It would be cool if she WAS the Black Canary and became a series regular and eventually like Lana Lang, Laurel died or moved or something that had her leave the show.

          But i have to disagree about Laurel’s fighting ability. It wasnt amateur. The few scenes shes gone all “MMA” on a guy she obviously had more than 1 year of martial arts training. Probably her dad making her and her sister go to have self defense skills. First she was super artsy with how she kicked that club owners ass (spinning him around and all that) then most recently the gunmen she didnt just throw a YMCA boxing punch..she had moves that you dont just have in your skill set from 2 months of martial arts classes. Granted i imagine its no where near what the Black Canary is supposed to have but still.

          Lol im sorry but reading “Black Canary can dominate Green Arrow especially at close range, destroy him” makes me laugh. It takes everything about fighting and size and strength and skills and throws it out the window and goes with “we need a girl to be able to beat a guy in comic book land”. Dont get me wrong im not saying no girl can take a guy or that no female hero can take a male hero (i dont consider Black Canary without powers and Oliver SUPER heroes). If Oliver was like the original days UFC where its just a ripped guy throwing boxing punches and wrestling moves and Black Canary is like a Gracie with BJJ who can take them down when they weigh 150lbs less than that…then yes..she could take him. Cause those huge guys didnt know anything about BJJ so they were at his mercy. But Oliver isnt that. His skill level seems to be a 10. Maxed out. Even if there is a woman that is also a 10, maxed out skill, she would need to have blades or something to take him down. Size plays huge into fights. Her hardest punch at a man as big and fight proven as Oliver wouldnt do much damage, and his hardest punch connecting once would do MAJOR damage if not one-hit-knock-out her.

      • M3rc Nate says:

        How your arguing against my theories doesnt do you much. Dont get me wrong, your right, they didnt do it right and both ways do suck. But im not saying the ideal way, im saying the two most likely options the show CAN do…cause Laurel is gonna be Black Canary, so obviously she is going to have to be trained by someone…i would guess either Oliver or her sister. Your argument is right on but its all mute cause your just saying the show did it wrong, your not saying “thats not how the show is gonna do it”.

  21. Very excited about the Ra’s Al Ghul mention! I can’t wait to see more of Black Canary! As for the Laurel bit, it was pretty obvious that she blamed herself but was taking it out on The Hood. I’m glad, for her own emotional well-being, that she realized and faced that. Of course she blames herself. When you lose someone you love, you wonder what you could have done different. If you could have saved them. That isn’t easy, and I hope they don’t make it easy. I’d like to see Laurel process that pain in a realistic way. I really love the character, but absolutely hated her just being a point in a love triangle last season. I want to see her fleshed out and developed, and I want to see her interact with other characters. Team Arrow was in fine form this episode. I loved Felicity asserting that it was her right to make the decision to be bait or not, and I loved seeing Quentin working with the team. I’m so sad about the Moira development, and can’t help but be upset with the DA. I understand that the people in The Glades are probably demanding blood, but I don’t think Moira’s involvement warrants the death penalty. All in all, I’m really enjoying this season so far. :)

    • And Teryl Rothery was Moira’s lawyer! That was great. I’m in the middle of a SG-1 rewatch, and absolutely loved her as Janet Fraiser.

    • Drew says:

      I’m really trying to be on Moira’s side, but she did help Malcolm plan this for years and only tried to stop it once she was exposed. Her family was threatened, but she still played a role in it for years… that is hard to shrug off.

      They will undoubtedly Lionel Luthor this somehow though. Maybe a botched investigation or some technicality like that.

  22. Chuck says:

    Did anyone else notice the name of the boat was Amazo?

  23. Drew says:

    The season has been pretty solid thus far. The no-kill policy is still ridiculous (even cops don’t have that silly policy) but at least Black Canary jumped in and put down the bad guy so that he wouldn’t be released from prison again in a few weeks.

    Oliver’s new philosophy is going to get someone killed (unless the writers try to pass it off as remotely reasonable for him to do this)

    That aside, good episode. I could use more Shado though.

  24. Davey Elmer says:

    “Actually, Zak is correct. The president of CW confirmed it back in late July. And while IMDB may not be 100% credible, 9 times out of 10, the information is correct.”

    You don’t just give away that kind of information unless you’re an idiot, so until/unless it’s actually confirmed on-screen, I stand by my doubt.

    As for the ‘IMDB is right 9 times out of 10’ statement, you are wrong.

  25. Jake says:

    So who else caught all the references to DC’s New 52?

  26. Davey Elmer says:

    Moving away from Black Canary, I hope Slade’s not done for after getting his face burnt off, because I really like Manu Bennett, especially after getting to attend a Q&A session/panel featuring him at the SLC Comic-Con last month.

    • Auntie Ralph says:

      He got added to the main cast, so I like to think he’s less screwed than Shado is. I keep kicking around a theory with a buddy of mine that in something like the 3rd or 2nd last episode of the season see Slade either seemingly die or escape the island without Ollie (intentional or not), and then in the season finale he shows up in the present day, mask and all.

  27. Mr. Sunshine says:

    Fantastic episode! Can’t wait for next week already. I don’t find Laurel’s character annoying at all. I really enjoy the Father/Daughter dynamic on the show. And, I do think we will get more of a back story on Diggle and Felicity as the show progresses. Looking forward to the rest of the season. As a huge Smallville fan, I think this has been a pretty decent replacement. :-)

  28. Randy says:

    I do not understand that Quentin Lance passes overnight with Green Arrow and he does not recognize Oliver Queen not to mention the presence of Digger as they try to stop Mathis. Everything points to Oliver Queen

    • Ross Cooper says:

      Agreed! I kept expecting him to call him Oliver at the end of the episode. Although Diggle was kept out of sight from Lance during their time together, the fact that he (1) Works with Felicity, (2) Arrow showed up at the same time as Oliver, (3) Arrow’s interseasonal disappearance and reappearance coincided exactly with Oliver Queen’s, (4) Persistent connection with Laurel, It all should be enough to cast doubt on the one piece of refuting ‘evidence’.

    • Anna says:

      That’s exactly what I though. He can’t be that stupid now, can he?

    • John 1138 says:

      Oliver rubbed those magic glasses of disguise Clark Kent used to don all over his hood down in the lair.

    • Alan says:

      he is the jim gordon of the show so he doesnt want to see it in order to maintain plausible deniability.

  29. Well, since the question of realism continues to pop up here, it might be worth noting that the most realistic Batman show currently on the air is CBS’ “Person of Interest.”

  30. Mikael says:

    I totally called that the Canary Cry would be technological. At least they attempted to have it at all though. I couldn’t believe it when they mentioned Ra’s. The messenger was wearing the same outfit as Malcolm, so I bet that’s where he trained. The island stuff was cool too. Question about the Deathstroke mask: the previous Deathstroke had a yellow mask, but the one we see on a pike with an arrow through it is orange. Could it be that the friendship between Slade and Oliver goes bad and they fight?

  31. Luis says:

    Interesting seeing Ra’s Al Ghul and the League of Assassins woven into the plot line. Looking forward to when Slade makes his appearance in Starling City (as the Terminator, no doubt?)

  32. JC says:

    I loved the episode – I think Arrow is my favorite show this season and it seems like it just keeps getting better. Loved the Canary – looking forward to finding out more about her and Oliver finding out who she is. And I knew her cry would be some sort of tech. It really does seem like Lance knows who the Arrow is – I hope we find out that he’s known for awhile. A lot of what he said to the Arrow in this episode makes more sense in that context. Laurel continues to be the weak link – I still have no idea what they’re trying to do with her, since apparently her vendetta against the Hood was always destined to be short lived. I guess we’ll see where she goes from here. And apparently Roy is stealing from the nightclub? Why? That’s not going to endear him to Thea. I don’t know what the season plans are, but it might kind of be cool to see Sin and Roy become Team Canary like Diggle and Felicity are Team Arrow. If Oliver won’t train Roy, maybe Canary will. And Moira has more secrets? Intriguing.

  33. Nick says:

    Ra’s Al Ghul! It’s so awesome they are Including the League Of Assassins in this series, especily after the Nolan Batman Movies treated it so poorly.
    Still, I can’t help wish they would pronounce his name right. Everytime I hear actors say Rahz-al-ghoul I cringe. Hopefully the League’s Al-Owal will pronounce it Raysh-al-ghoul, Since that is the manner that respects Arabic pronunciation rules and a response from Dennis O’Neil’s (the character’s creator) wife as to how the name should be pronounced.

  34. JC says:

    I love this episode definitely one of Arrow’s best. I hope they can continue this upward trend. BTW I do not get all the Laurel hate she is not annoying or useless in my opinion. The writers are just confused as to what she needs to be but they will get there. Katie Cassidy was good in that final scene :)

  35. Katie says:

    At least Oliver’s island wigs are a lot better this season…

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