Once Upon a Time Recap: Time to Pay the Piper

Once Upon a Time RecapThis week on ABC’s Once Upon a Time, Neal was discovered alive in Neverland by a familiar face, while Emma broke down over love lost and Henry was slowly lured into Peter Pan’s trap.

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IN THE FAIRYTALE LAND THAT WAS…. | Young Bae is brooding, so his father The Dark One asks what’s wrong. Bae wants to be out and about, not holed up in their hovel — but Rumple fears what his enemies might do to his son. When Bae goes missing, Rumple is led to the town of Hamelin, where he hears tell of a “pied piper” who has been leading kids into the forest. Rumple finds and confronts the piper and discovers that it’s Peter Pan — and this is by no means the first time they’ve met. Pan taunts Rumple about his “lost boy” (and in turn gets an idea for naming his followers…), until Rumple finds Bae and whisks him back home. Rumple reveals that he and Pan grew up “incredibly close,” but now the lad’s “darker and more repulsive” than anyone Bae should be exposed to. Nonetheless, Pan had put it in Bae’s head that his father would have asked if he wanted to go home upon finding him, if he truly loved him, so… sulk.

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IN NEVERLAND…. | Hook leads Emma and the others to a cave where Baelfire hid out as a Lost Boy. There, they find drawings, but no clue to how he got off Neverland — until Emma assembles a coconut shell candle that projects a map onto the ceiling. Alas, Hook can’t crack Neal’s code, a moment that sends Emma outside, breaking into tears over how she and Neal got it all wrong over the years, yet she knew the instant she saw him again in New York City, “I never stopped loving him.” (The scene also illustrates how Snow White feels inept at consoling a daughter, then clumsily segues into a talk of immortality, seeing as Charming is keeping his poisoning a secret.)

Speaking of Neal: Soon after landing in Neverland, he bests Felix (“At least I know how to tie an overhand knot”) and then bumps into Rumplestilskin. After confirming that Neal isn’t a vision of his failures meant to test him, Rumple questions whether his son has the stomach for what needs to be done to save Henry. Neal says they needn’t kill Lost Boys, then reveals his plan to use a captured squid’s ink to immobilize Pan, since no one can leave the island without his permission. They later KO the Lost Boys (and Henry) with a sleeping spell, as Neal fires an arrow at Pan — who catches it, scoffs, then discovers the squid ink was on the arrow shaft. Totally Mags Bennett’d/Stahma Tarr’d!

With Pan helpless, Neal and Rumple grab sleeping Henry and make tracks, ’til they pause to discuss what Pan said about a prophecy and Rumple wanting to kill Henry, not save him. The men reach an impasse, so Neal immobilizes his father and carries away (the still, conveniently sleeping) Henry, only to be captured just as he discovers Emma’s campsite. “Never break in somewhere unless you know the way out,” Pan reminds Neal (showing the origin of a lesson Emma related earlier, ha). Neal boasts of how he has escaped Neverland once before, but Pan counters, noting Bae’s return and then with a nod to Henry: “Everyone’s where I want them…. The game’s about to change.”

In the final moments, Henry (finally!) wakes and tells Pan he “dreamed” of hearing his “dead” father’s voice. Pan assures the boy, “Neverland is where new dreams are born. We can be your family.” And then, for the first time, Henry can hear the piper’s song, which is only audible to children who aren’t feeling loved.

Conversation topic: Could Pan be the “boy” who, per prophecy, “reunites” Rumplestiltskin and his son, seeing as it was the Neverland mission that ultimately brought them together again? Also: I thought this was a pretty strong episode, at least on the Neal/Rumple/Pan side. Good teases for backstories to come, some nice callbacks. Tinker Bell is a gas, but the cave stuff was a bit kooky.

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. david says:

    Did anyone else notice that in the flashbacks when peter pan is talking to rumple it looks as if hes got a scratch in his right eye. Looks like he scratched his cornea. but its only noticeable in the flashback. Aside from that i thought it was an ok episode

  2. Melanie says:

    This is up there with Manhattan as my favorite episodes. Loved it. My Swanfire feelings have exploded again.

    • Patti says:

      This is my favorite episode of the season. Love Neal and love his interaction with his dad. Finally. MRJ and RC rocked those scenes. Hopefully Rumple will earn back his trust and forgiveness and Neal will do the same with Emma and Emma will learn that hers was not the only messed up orphan life that happened.

  3. Ginger Snap says:

    I re watched the Seer episode from season 2 and thought that was what they meant. Henry (the boy) will lead you to him -Peter Pan – he will be your undoing. Rumple:Well I’ll just have to kill him. It is deceptive enough to make you think Henry, but it’s Peter Pan.

    So we’ll see if Rumple kills Pan.

    • Mary says:

      No. She said that the boy would lead him to his son. That they (Rumple and Bae) would reunite in a way that is most unexpected. (which actually happened tonight — in New York, Rumple expected to be reunited with Bae, he wasn’t expecting the reunion in Neverland). So actually it could be that Peter Pan is the boy because he’s the one who had Henry captured and brought to Neverland.

      • Ginger Snap says:

        She never said the boy would lead him to his son. She said “It will not be an easy path. You will be reunited with your son. And it will come in a most unexexpected way..You will be reunited with your son. A young boy will lead you to him. The young boy is more than he appears. He will lead you to what you seek. But there will be a price. The boy will be your undoing. ”
        We know that the seer told parts of the future with much ambiguity. Things she foretold could be interpreted in more than one way. Him and the boy are not necessarily the same person. Pan is part of what she saw. And Rumple and Pan have a shared secret.

        • Joey says:

          Also, you could play around with the word “reunite” as well. Are they simply going to meet each other again? Will they be emotionally close again? Specially what does that mean?

        • Stormy says:

          I’ve believed for some time that Pan and Rumple are brothers. The doll was Rumple’s not Bael’s. Why would it be in Neverland unless Rumple was there as a boy?

          • Jessica says:

            Actually I was forming the impression that Pan might be Rumplestiltkin’s father, but he’s taken the form of a boy. Notice how Pan kept calling him “Laddie”?

          • Stormy says:

            Laddie is the Scots sarcastic address toward another male. If they are brothers, it would be natural especially if Pan were the elder brother.

  4. Wrstlgirl says:

    The Neal/Bae & Rumple episodes are far better than the Emma swansong ones. At least for me. I enjoyed the entire thing, didn’t hit the ff once :-)

  5. Adrienne says:

    I always wondered if what they meant by undoing was his undoing as the dark one, not his death.

    • Kate says:

      That’s been my thought also.

    • Mike R. says:

      And hasn’t Rumple learned anything from his first experience with the Seer, killing Henry won’t change the future anymore than not fighting the Orge wars. Bae still would have been without a Father either way. So I would assume if he killed Henry, killing Henry would be his undoing.

    • ben says:

      Yes, I’ve always assumed that ‘undoing’ was used wth intentional ambiguity.

    • PepperJo says:

      Yes, all along I’ve wondered if it meant it would be his undoing as the dark one, meaning that he would be deprived of, or actually give up, his dark powers to save the boy. Thus “undoing” his role as the dark one.

    • Cass says:

      That is THE most annoying plot hole in this whole ridonk arc about Rumple maybe killing Henry. He’s had three HUNDRED years to think about it and the various meanings of “undoing” haven’t occurred to him? Most viewers got it within five minutes of the end of Manhattan.

      • Alex says:

        Yes, I agree 100% – really pretty weak plot point that so obvious an interpretation has never occurred to anyone on the show.

      • missvci says:

        I’m sure in Rumpel’s mind losing his dark one powers is the same thing as death.

        • Cass says:

          Well, he keeps repeating “death” as if he hasn’t thought of ANY other possibilities.

          • Ginger Snap says:

            But he has misunderstood the Seer before and acted in ways to make what she says happen. Because he chose an interpretation. I think we know that isn’t what she meant. But has Rumple figured it out?

      • jerrired says:

        Agree. I feel like that plot point was just to add unnecessary conflict. There is already so much of it within the Bae and Rumple relationship, adding the Rumple might want to kill Henry drama wasn’t worth adding to the storyline. Also, I loved this episode as well. The entire season really is very strong. i hope the second half of this season stays as strong. But I believe it will, as long as they either keep Pan or add a complication just as fascinating and devious as Pan.

    • tara says:

      ^this! i have been thinking of that since he first heard the prophecy.

    • Kat says:

      I’ve always thought that too! Rumple was of course looking for Bae, and they were reunited. But in the bigger picture, he’s seeking redemption and love – from Bae and Belle both. In order for that to truly happen, he has to be “undone” as the Dark One.

  6. Fernando says:

    This episode was okay. I feel like episode that don’t have enough Regina aren’t as good. I guess I just like her too much.

    • Michie M says:

      Completely agree about Regina. Honestly, she carries this show. To me, it doesn’t take much to see why the ratings were so down for this episode. I didn’t think it was that good of an ep but it would’ve been better, always, with more Sassgina. :)

  7. Lori says:

    I’ve really been enjoying this season so far, but I thought this episode was a bit of a dud.

    • Joey says:

      Are you serious? This was by far the best episode they’ve aired thus far.

      • Lori says:

        Sorry but while the first 3 episodes were really good this one didn’t really hold my attention. I thought it was by far the weakest episode so far this season.

      • Melanie says:

        It’s one of my all time favorites, that’s for sure.

      • Jennifer says:

        I’m with Lori. I loved the first three episodes of the season. This one did nothing for me.

        • Michie M says:

          I agree with Jennifer and Lori. This ep was a dud. It may have to do with the fact that I can’t stand the Neal character but I thought it was pretty boring.

      • Cass says:

        I think it was the strongest this season as well. In previous eps I’ve liked one or two scenes, in this one nearly all of them were good.

    • GeoDiva says:

      This episode was boring.

    • Alex says:

      Agreed – this wasn’t that great an episode. Things really seem to have dulled down since they made it to Neverland. While the writers try to make conflict, all that occurs is Pan snarks at the main cast, NOTHING really happens (except Charming getting poisoned, and that’s taking an awful long time to kill him).

    • Agreed. Nowhere as interesting as last week’s … the “conversion” of Henry to the dark side was too pat, too unbelievable, too rushed. Essentially, this episode’s main plot was completely irrelevant, as Henry still has no idea his father is alive, on the island, or anything else … and Neal and his father are just going to have spend ANOTHER episode reuniting and working together. Ugh. Not a good episode.

    • Louise says:

      It was okay, but not exactly my favorite either. The first three were better.

  8. Mike R. says:

    I thought it was a good episode, I think I preferred last weeks, but I prefer Regina to Rumple, but it was still way better than the premiere, which has been the weakest episode this season IMO. Neal was a bit annoying, but I understand where he is coming from, the audience knows that Rumple wants redemption for Neal, but Rumple has abandoned Neal in the past whose to say he wouldn’t again. Peter Pan is my favorite part of the season, he can be a bit over exaggerative in his facial expressions, but he is a blast to watch. Only thing that irked me is Charming not coming clean to Snow, and Not continuation of Mulan and Robin Hood, but that was to be expected, but otherwise it was a great episode. Regina’s smirk when hearing Greg’s fate was awesome.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      Yes, loved Regina’s smirk. Funny lines about the “night light” and “pasta,” too.

    • I don’t like neither Regina’s or Rumple’s episodes, I actually like the standalone ones — they’re so rare nowadays. I miss the season one structure! — and I thought your comment was so funny because I thought last week’s episode was the BEST in ages, but never for a minute I saw it as “Regina’s”. I saw it as Tinkerbell’s. I loved her and I kept anxiously waiting to hear more about her story.

  9. Lysh says:

    Tinkerbell is a gas? Groovy review, daddio.

    I never thought about Peter being the boy until now. That kid is creepy and magnificent. I can’t wait to hear learn more about him in Hook’s flashbacks and hopefully more of Rumple’s.

  10. spotteddog says:

    I have actually never thought that Henry would cause the death of Rumple. Once we met Hook we knew meeting Peter was just a matter of time, and it seemed much more likely to me that Peter would be “the boy” in question. Also, the term “undoing” does not have to mean “death”. It could be that Rumple no longer being “the Dark One” would be an “undoing”, or perhaps driving a permanent wedge between Rumple and Bae would also fit as an “undoing”

  11. The more I watch Once, the less and less I like Neal. Leaving Rumpel behind? Not a good guy move. (Which I have no doubt Henry will call him out on.)
    Also do none of the characters on this show realize that “undoing” does not mean death? Prophecy’s never mean what they appear to. I understand that the writers want to keep the suspense up, but by having none of the characters realize this just makes them look like idiots.

    • Dan says:

      Well, as far as I know the only ones who know about the prophecy are Rumple and now Neal. And Rumple’s always thinking everybody wants to kill him so…

    • Joey says:

      I honestly don’t understand this logic. Neal knows from past experience that Rumpel has always had great difficulty in trying to do the right thing. So, when it’s so easy for Rumpel to go ahead and do the wrong thing, in this case /killing Neal’s son/….if you were Neal, what would you have done?

      It may hurt to watch, because, from everything we’ve seen, we know that Rumpel wants to do the right thing, and I’m sure Neal knows that too, but how is Neal supposed to trust him to do the right thing when in the past he has almost always chosen the wrong thing?

      • And we should trust Neal? From my perspective we’ve seen even less to indicate that he’s at all trustworthy. At the very least he’s a crappy judge of character (Tamara anyone?) at worst he’s a down right hypocrite. After all what is the thing that he yells at Rumple for every other sentence? Abandoning his family. And what did Neal do the very first time we met him? Oh that’s right abandon his family. When Rumple became the dark one he thought he was doing the right thing. When Neal abandoned Emma he thought he was doing the right thing. Guess what? Neither of them were.
        Both of them have screwed up in eerily similiar ways, ironically for the same reasons, because they were cowards. So why does Neal think that he’s allowed to seek redemption for that (as he stated to Mulan) but not Rumple? Kind of hypocritical of him isn’t it?
        Beyond that Neal’s perspective on Rumpel is almost completely invalid because he’s seeing him through the perspective of his childhood self, who wasn’t actually in the right to begin with! He still seems to think that Rumple was the way he was out of spite, but everything he did was to protect his child. It could even be argue that being in Neverland for so long as a child has literally kept Neal from ever emotionally maturing beyond the level of a petulant teenager.

        • Ginger Snap says:

          So the underlying theme of the show is abandonment. Every one is related and everyone is repeating this pattern of abandonment. Some Southern Baptist Churches call a pattern that keeps repeating itself across generations a “Generational Curse”. Rumple’s father abandoned him. He abandons Baelfire. Neal abandons Henry. Over in the Charming family, they abandon Emma, Emma abandons Henry.

          How do you break a generational curse? The show is working that out. But the Southern Baptists would start with forgiveness. Abd there’s a whole lot of that work to do.

          • Indeed, my point is that further abandonment is not the way to go about it.

          • Ginger Snap says:

            This family is on a strange journey to the path of forgiveness. It involves choices and insight. Right now, Rumple grasps that his choices led to the place we’re at now. Neal has yet to see that he is repeating the pattern – all the way down to protecting his son. Rumple tried to protect Neal from Pan. Neal is trying to protect Henry from Rumple. Which makes the revelation of the exact nature of the relationship between Pan and Rumple intriguing. Because they are related too. Whether that’s brother to brother, father to son, or orphan to orphan is yet to be revealed.

        • Joey says:

          Nice strawman argument. Now try actually responding to what I said.

        • jj says:

          When has Neal ever abandoned Henry? Ever since he has known about Henry’s existence, he has never intentionally abandoned Henry. Neal has also never intended to kill anyone whereas his father admitted that he for the longest time intended to kill the boy from the prophecy. Neal tried to save his dad from being the dark one, he sacrificed himself to save the Darlings. Rumple as the dark one and as Mr Gold has destroyed lives and only helps if he personally gets something out of it. Yet you trust him rather than Neal? You obviously has a dislike of Neal but as others have mentioned you have yet to provide any real evidence to support it.

          • Ginger Snap says:

            Abandonment can be direct or indirect. He actively abandoned Emma. She was pregnant with his son. Emma is still dealing with that abandonment. Abandonment can also occur through death. It’s never openly discussed, but Snow was also abandoned by her mother through death. And there were consequences for her because of it.

          • Ginger Snap says:

            Abandonment isn’t about the one who wasn’t there. It is about the person who was left behind. Because of the emptiness that is left in your soul. Regardless of the reason for his abandonment, it still happened.
            And we haven’t seen everything that Neal is capable of. Didn’t he ask Rumple for the knife? That’s certainly a dangerous path.

          • jj says:

            abandonment is about both people involved. And the question that was raised was about Rumple’s and Neal’s patterns of abandoning others. And consequently who is more trustworthy. Again, Neal has never intentionally abandoned his son whereas Rumple has. Intentions certainly play a big role in determining someone’s character and trustworthiness.

      • It’s not about trust. It’s about forgiveness. Emma has to forgive the Charmings. Henry has to forgive Neal and Emma. Neal has to forgive Rumple. From my perspective it looks like Neal is doing the worst job of the three, because at least the others are giving their respective parents a chance, he’s not. Instead he betrays his father, and does it through the same way his father would to boot, through lies and trickery. (I consider this kind of ironic because the character doesn’t seem to realize that every attribute he hates about his father, he has too.)
        It’s also about belief. Neverland runs on belief. Considering how long he spent there, Neal should know that better than any of them. If he actually believes that Rumple will do anything to save Henry, then the chances of him actually doing so go way up. By refusing to believe I’d wager that he’s actually hurt their overall chances of success way more than his arrival on Neverland helped.

        • the girl says:

          I agree with all this, particularly the aspect of belief, which I had not considered before reading your post. But it makes perfect sense. Emma and Neal have the hardest time believing in others or themselves, a result of tenuous relationships with their parents, which means this little trip to Neverland, which potentially could have been worked out quickly, has to take half a season. I say worked out quickly because besides having an uncanny knack towards manipulating teenage boys, I don’t get what Peter Pan’s special power is supposed to be – and I know plenty of teenage boys who know how to manipulate other teenage boys. And here he is up against the Dark One, the Evil Queen, and the product of True Love (and the true lovers themselves), and he’s winning.

          • Ginger Snap says:

            His power is reading your weakness. How is it that he knows just exactly what button to push to make all these boys believe they’re lostI and unloved? Because Henry certainly didn’t believe that until Peter plants that seed.

          • the girl says:

            And given all the collective strength between them, they shouldn’t be so easy to read or manipulate. Again, if Neal has no issues with his father and has faith in him, there is nothing to mine there. If Emma has no issues with her parents and has faith in them, there is nothing to mine there. If they believe in themselves and each other, Peter Pan has no power. He is just a teenage boy having a hissy fit, which is nothing special.

        • Ginger Snap says:

          If you study the psychology here, there’s the idea of transparency. It’s doubtful that Neal/Baelfire knows Rumple’s story of abandonment. Because Rumple has never explained his past. We’re about to get to the root of Rumple’s story as a little boy. Children often can’t see their parents as children. Once upon a time, Rumple was a little boy whose father abandoned him. Neal’s path to forgiveness requires some insight into his father’s journey.

      • Steph says:

        I agree. After everything we’ve seen Baelfire go through with his father, the anger and resentment that strained their relationship, Neal’s last straw was Rumpel’s intention to hurt Henry. It waqs bad timing, but Neal has seen Rumpel make horrible choices and do horrible things over and over again, and I felt like it was brave of Neal to finally say “no” in an abusive relationship. His son is his priority, and I feel like this was some interesting development for his character. What else is he willing to do to protect his son? I’m excited to see.

    • the girl says:

      I can’t stop myself from wondering why Neal didn’t at least ask Rumple to magically take them to where Emma and the rest were camping? He seriously just walked off on his own, like there was no chance Pan and the Lost Boys might follow him / find him. If you don’t trust Rumple alone with Henry, fine, but his magic was necessary and Neal should have just allowed Rumple to protect both of them until they could find a way out of Neverland.

      • Gail says:

        Neil believes Rumple wants to kill Henry to save himself. He doesn’t trust his father. Rumple warned Neil that he wouldn’t get far without his help. Neil thought the better (safer option was getting away from his father to save his son from being killed. Even if Pan captured them, as he did, he wouldn’t kill Henry since he wants Henry.

      • I agree. I find it difficult to believe that Pan would have recaptured Henry if Rumple had been there.

      • jj says:

        Simply put Neal couldn’t be sure that Rumple would actually protect Henry. If you were trying to protect your son from a kidnapper, would you do so by hanging out with someone who has admitted to having intended on killing your son and still have the motive to do so?

        • the girl says:

          Why would Rumple go all the way to Neverland if his goal is get rid of Henry? All he would have had to do was leave Henry in Neverland – problem solved. He never had to come along to help. Again, goes back to the lack of faith they have in each other. Additionally, I think Neal should be very confident that Rumple wouldn’t kill HIM. So Neal protects his son from Rumple and have Rumple protect him and Henry from Pan.

          • jj says:

            Rumple admitted he was going to sacrifice himself to save Henry when he thought that Neal was dead. He now knows that Neal isn’t dead, so that changes things. So you can’t use Rumple going to Neverland as evidence that he won’t kill Henry. Neal doesn’t have the ability to fight off Rumple if Rumple were to try to kill Henry. The only way Neal could have protected Henry from Rumple was to get away from him.

  12. Dan says:

    Stupid Henry. T

  13. Dan says:

    Stupid Henry. Robbie Kay as Peter Pan is just perfection. He makes it so easy and great to hate him and I love that.

    Poor Rumple, but that was expected. Such a great episode.

    • the girl says:

      Is he really? I’m not afraid of him a little bit. Besides knowing things he isn’t supposed to know, what else can he do?

  14. Larc says:

    I don’t believe for a second Henry is actually falling into Pan’s trap. It wouldn’t be like him to be lured into doing that. He probably has a plan up his sleeve.

    • Emma says:

      I think so too. He wasn’t dancing in rhythm or enthusiastically at all. It seemed like he was just trying to imitate but the rest of the Lost Boys were dancing a specific pattern.

      I think that he knows Pan wants him to hear the music, so he’s pretending to so Pan will think his plan is working. I’m interested to see how Henry continues to deal with his captivity and I was glad there was more of that in this episode. Although, I would prefer for the episode to have had more of Emma/Hook/Snow/Charming/Regina than Bae and Rumple.

      • Mikael says:

        I don’t know, I think Henry is just a bad actor. And putting him next to Robbie Kay who is amazing as Peter Pan is just highlighting Jared’s shortcomings. I do hope that he is just pretending, because that would be a huge character flaw for him to give up so easily.

    • LaLa says:

      Yeah, I actually got the feeling that Henry isn’t as far gone as Pan thinks. Henry tends to reason out the stories and villains pretty well. And I’m not convinced that he wasn’t awakened when Pan and the Lost Boys took him back.
      As for Bae/Neal – even if he was upset with his father and the “prophecy,” why in the heck would he just take Henry and start traipsing through Neverland? With no magical protection. How far did he really think he would get? I would’ve used Rump to get off the island, or at least back to the others. That was just a bonehead move.

  15. Debra says:

    I am really liking this season so far but Pan constantly getting over on Emma and the others is getting old. The hero in a story have to win some battles sometime and it has been but Emma constantly finding setbacks caused by Pan in the four episodes that have aired this season.

  16. Jamie says:

    I’m calling it right now, Peter Pan is rumple’s brother. They “grew up together”. Yep, totally calling this one

    • A.B. says:

      So hopefully on that flashback episode where we see Rumple’s childhood maybe we get to see how he and Pan know each other be it brothers or friends.

    • HereThere says:

      Agreed! As if Rumpelstiltskin is your grandfather is not bad enough, the poor kid now got evil Peter Pan / Pied Piper of Hamelin for great uncle. Dark and light alright.

    • jj says:

      not sure about that. Peter Pan specifically says ‘your father’ when talking to Rumple. Would be weird to do that if they have the same father. Possibly half brothers?

  17. Shara says:

    Best episode of the season. Love the actors playing Neal, Rumple and Pan

  18. Lynne says:

    Henry doesnt really hear the music. He looked a little hesitant before he starting dancing around, like he was thinking ‘Maybe I should go along with this so Pan thinks that I am coming around’.
    I’ve always loved the villans in stories, which is why I love Rumple to death, but Robbie Kay is doing Evil Pan so well, he is quickly on the way to the top of my favorite characters list.

  19. h says:

    Emma still loves Neal, thwts all i wanted to know…. i hope they dont kill him. I desperately want to know whats Pans plan

  20. missvci says:

    I’m not annoyed yet like a lot of you, but I know the Neverland plot to save Henry is gonna get old and repetitive. But I will miss Robbie Kay as Evil Pan once this storyline is over. He plays bad so well.

    and yes i’m on the undoing doesn’t equal death band wagon. and after this episode definitely think “the boy” is now Evil Pan. and Evil Pan is going to become the next dark one.

  21. Mary Kate says:

    OMG!! I LOVE THE THEORY, Matt!! Haha totally gives everyone something to think about!! And seeing how Adam and Eddy always twist things I can totally see it!!

  22. Babybop says:

    Robbie Kay is perfection. He steals the screen every time!

  23. Erin says:

    It appears that I am in the minority…but I did not care for tonight’s episode. It couldn’t keep my attention and I had to keep rewinding to see what I’d missed. This episode did nothing in terms of progression except a bit of back story about Neal/Pan/Rumple. Only Rumple knows Neal is alive…and that’s all the progression we have. Henry is still with Pan, the other characters are still wondering around the woods, Charming is still dying and only Hook knows..so are we really any closer to anything? Yes I do love a good flashback/backstory episode and yes, we also “know” how Neal got off of the island, but I doubt that will be the way they escape this time. I feel like I could’ve skipped this episode and just watched next weeks and wouldn’t have missed a beat. I’m also waiting for this Neverland story line to be over. It just hasn’t been as powerful or twisty as those in the past. Don’t get me wrong, the Pan character/actor is great but i’m ready for them to be back in Storybrooke.

    • Lynne says:

      Every show has a filler episode once in a while, and this could very much have been one. True, nothing as a whole really happened, but we do have new pieces here and there about Rumple, Bae and Pan. They have a history that goes back to both Bae and Rumple’s childhoods. I will say I wondered why Gold was saying that they should all be scared of Pan, because he isnt like that with anyone. Now we know, Rumple knew Pan when they were kids, before he became Evil Pan and that opens the door to how they knew each other, what happened to Pan that has made him this way and what did he did that has caused Rumple, The Dark One, to even be frightened of him.

      • Ginger Snap says:

        Something tells me it’s about Rumple’s father. And a deal he made with the Shadow over Pan.
        Is Henry destined to become Pan’s replacement?

        • Lynne says:

          I’d love for you to elaborate on that theory if you could. Never thought of that and wondering how you came about it.

          • Ginger Snap says:

            We know that the Shadow has a voice and we will here from him . Because they have cast Marilyn Manson to play the voice. If Pan isn’t Rumple’s brother, he is his father. And he made a deal to become Pan, the boy who never grew up. Or Rumple’s father made a deal to give up one son (Pan) to the Shadow. Much like Rumple stole the knife from the Dark One and killed him. It fits with the pattern of sons repeating the mistakes of the fathers.

          • Lynne says:

            That is a really good theory. I think I want to believe that they are brothers instead of father and son, just for the fact that Pan was and is a teenager. If he is Rumple’s father, then Pan wouldve gone to Neverland not long after he was born and came back after Rumple was a little older and took him back to Neverland for a while then for whatever reason, took him back to the Enchanted Forrest and that would make Rumple think that his father abandoned him. All of that seems a little farfetched to me but wouldnt be surprised if something like that does happen. Either way, we can Pan’s backstory next week and I am really excited about that. I want to know why they are makin Pan evil. Dont get me wrong, I love what they are doing to him but this is definitely not the Pan I grew up with and I wanna know what screwed him up so bad. Lol

          • Gail says:

            They have said Rumple’s father was a coward and Rumple didn’t want to be like him. To have Rumple’s dad give up a child, Pan, to save himself which would mirror what Rumple did with Bae makes sense. Perhaps Pan didn’t take Henry to save magic but did it for revenge against his family.

        • Stormy says:

          If no one ages in Neverland, why would Pan need a replacement?

    • Cass says:

      Rumple knowing that Neal is alive is a huge progression–well, at least in terms of this season which has been 90% aimless wandering in the jungle. The A plot of the last ep was all about finding Tinkerbell and getting her to help–and within the first five minutes of this she was like “I’m out, losers.” Rumple knowing about Neal and Henry either going native or hatching a plot are bot game changers. There was more actual plot movement in this ep than in the last three combined.

    • Not as small as a minority as you might think, Erin. Also not a fan. Much preferred the previous episodes this season.

  24. tp says:

    I really don’t like Neal. I can’t put my finger on it but I don’t. I agree with the comment above about the constant setbacks getting old.

  25. Can we just go back to Storybrooke? I hate this whole Neverland thing, ugh!

    • Leila J says:

      Barbie Furtado, I completely agree with you 100%!! Enough with Neverland already! I thought I was the only one feeling like that. :)

      • Stormy says:

        I’m thinking that Neverland is an economical place to shoot half the season compared to what it’s going to cost when they haul the story over to Oz. I haven’t spoken with anyone who is enjoying this arc.

        • murley says:

          We’ve never spoken, but I am thoroughly enjoying it ;). I much prefer it to the ‘Emma and Snow in fairytale land” arc last season. Pan is a delightful villian and I am intrigued to see what he has up his sleeve.

    • Joe says:

      Sorry, Barbie. As previously reported the Neverland arc is @ 11 episodes long and will be the bulk of the first half of this season.

  26. Jillian says:

    Glad I am not the only one who thinks that Pan is the boy in the prophecy and not Henry. I am also curious as to what Pan and Rumple’s back story is. My theory is that they’re related like brothers or something. That would be an interesting twist

  27. Penny says:

    I thought tonight was a snoozefest. We know all this about Bae and Rumple already… the only progression was that Rumple knows Neal/Bae is alive. There was a great character moment with Emma, and the charmings. I’m just over the redundant man pain hour… I *like* rumple (especially when he chews scenery) but for the love of god move the story..

    Personally? I would like the Belle visions to turn out to be Pan messing with Rumple.. or someone messing with Rumple…

  28. A says:

    Who else is stoked about the promo for next week?! Loved the dorky flashback haircut from Hook- adorable

    • gdv says:

      I’m totally excited. I didn’t care about Hook much last season, but this season I love him being a part of the main group. Can’t wait to get his backstory.

  29. abz says:

    Robbie Kay as Peter Pan has got to be the best casting decision the show has every made aside from the original characters. He is just perfection.
    Great to see young Baelfire again. I actually thought this episode was going to be giving background on Rumple’s father. Guess it must be later on then.
    I thought it was a great episode. The only let down for me was Emma’s declaration of love for Neal. That was the last thing I wanted to hear from her :P, but I guess it fits with the character and especially given the situation where she thinks he’s actually dead. I’m enjoying the struggle Snow is having with trying to be a mother, but I think she needs to begin to understand this situation and approach Emma more as a friend for the time being, than as a mother. Emma grew up without parents and then all of a sudden to find your parents and have them be the same age as you would creep just about anyone.
    Anywa can’t wait for the next two weeks. They’re the episodes I’ve been waiting for since the season started –> Hook backstory and Ariel. This is gonna be a looooooong week!

  30. Gail says:

    So Bae met Peter Pan before he met Wendy Darling ? Why was he surprised when the shadow took Wendy to Neverland?

    • missvci says:

      I had this thought too, but then realized yes he met pan, but pan himself was recruiting, he probably didn’t know of the shadow.

      and even if he he was aware of the shadow and Neverland, he was surprised it found him in “a land without magic” and that’s also why he sacrificed himself.

  31. ej says:

    Personally, Matt, I liked the cave stuff. It was a nice parallel to Neal’s junk-filled Manhattan apartment(s). I’m sure there are some “Easter Eggs” buried in Bae’s cave paintings. And that star map surely becomes important for getting “home”.

    I thought, overall, this was a pretty good episode, although I am already tired of Haluncination!Belle. For once there wasn’t quite enough on the action (last season was heavy on the action, light on the character interaction), although the Neal/Rumple and Emma/Snow moments were nice.

    That Pan would turn out to be the Pied Piper wasn’t a great surprise, since the show likes to mash-up fairy tale characters and a guy who steals kids with musical pipes is an obvious correlation with Pan. It was a nice twist, though, the suggestion that Pan, in fact, is the boy in the prophesy since it very much appears that he let Bae leave Neverland for the sole purpose of fathering Henry, thus leading to father and son reuniting. What a twisted little git!

    Robbie Kay continues to be scary good.

  32. kavyn says:

    So apparently I’m the only one not enjoying this season at all…

    I do like Peter Pan though. Regina’s still great. But Snow/Charming are so irrelevant and introduce so much stupidity (the boat scene, Charming’s poison, Charming/Snow trying to be better parents to Emma in the middle of a rescue mission on a dangerous island) that they have pretty much ruined this entire storyline for me… Well, that is if “save Henry” wasn’t enough to ruin it.

    Rumple has really lost me this season. I’m not enjoying him as much as I did before. I’m afraid that once they introduce Regina’s new love interest I will also start to lose interest in her (although I hope I don’t).

    • abz says:

      While I disagree with you about this season because I am loving it so far and I love everything Neverland, I do agree with you on the Snow/Charming storyline. Them trying to be parents is just stupid. I liked the scene where Snow was talking with Charming about how she struggles with trying to be a mother, but in the end they need to make them realize that they will never truly be the parents they want to be to Emma. They have to approach the relationship in a different way. And while all things Charming annoys me, this poisoning storyline is getting on my nerves. I hope they wrap it up soon. The only good thing about it is that it’s giving Hook more screen time.
      Also, I believe it’s implied after that last episode that Robin Hood is Regina’s love interest. We already met him and I remember reading that Sean Maguire will have an enhanced role in the second half of the season.

      • kavyn says:

        I like Neverland, I simply think Snow/Charming have ruined what could have been an amazing adventure. I’m so fed up with the storylines focused on love… I just want action. Maybe it’s because I’m a guy lol.

        What infuriates me about Charming’s story is that everyone knows he’ll survive. Unless if this actually kills him off, it’s such a meaningless storyline that completely dejects from the main focus of the season. “Oh look at me I’m dying. Stop looking at Henry, look at meeee. Emma look at meee I’m your dad I’m dying look at mee… oh, fairy dust. I’m saved.”

        • abz says:

          Lol I’m a guy too. I know what you mean though. That’s why I love Neverland. It’s taking them away from Storybrooke where all they really did was talk for most of the last half of the second season. I don’t necessarily hate the love stuff because when you start this show its something you have to expect, but I like it when they balance it out,
          Snow and Charming, however, are so boring in general. I can tolerate Snow, but Charming has always gotten on my nerves. He’s always been a lame, boring character and I hate watching him “try” and act like a hero. And I agree this storyline is stupid because in the end he will live unless they actually want to shake things up and kill him off which I think would be a nice change and would love to see them tackle that.

          • tara says:

            i guess i want to like the charmings more than i actually do but i loved charming in fairy tale land, I just feel like they need to stop calling them heroes and actually make them do something heroic! the writers are fantastic at giving layers to the “villains” but agreed they need to bring more action, less talk. having said that, i don’t mind he’ll be saved from the poisoning, i still want emma and them to truly reconcile. also side note, i’m a girl and i’m totally looking forward to the “hook”-up next week ;)

      • AtoZ says:

        I’m confused about timelines again. Robin Hood was apparently Regina’s “soul mate” (per Tink) early in her time as queen… and is still alive and relatively young, with a 3-year old son in the present day fairyland when Neal arrived. How is that at all possible?

        • Christina says:

          You can’t question the timeline on this show, it’s too confusing. I don’t think Regina has actually been alive that long though – unlike Rumple, Pan, Neal and Hook, she’s pretty much been stuck aging in Fairy Tale Land, not jumping portals and spending time in Neverland to prevent aging.

        • twilight123 says:

          How that works in the timeline: When Tink points Robin Hood out to Regina, Regina had been married only a few years. Snow was like 9-10ish (?) when Regina married her father, imagine a few years later, she would be about 12-13 when Tink told Regina about Robin Hood. We never saw how young/old Robin Hood was in the flashback, but he was in a bar drinking, so I’ll go with mid 20s. If he was in his mid 20s when Snow was about 13, then Snow is in her early to mid 30s now, putting Robin Hood in his mid to late 40s. If you think that Snow currently is in her late 20s (which I don’t, but I have seen others aruge)- then Robin Hood would be in his early 40s. Either way, it is very plausible that he would still be alive and have a 3 year old son. (The key is that you have to remember that everything was frozen at the time of the curse).

          • courts says:

            Snow was 12 and Regina was 18 when they met. Regina was likely in her late teens or early 20s when she interacted with Tink, meaning that there was about 10 or so years for him to get married and have a child with Marian.

  33. Jennifer says:

    Lana Parrilla and Robbie Kay were the only parts of this episode I enjoyed.

  34. Britta Unfiltered says:

    I’ve given Once Upon a Time a hard time in the past, but I’ve really been enjoying Neverland. And Robert Carlysle is still very much keeping me in the show. I just wanna hug him. That’s me, Britta Unfiltered. I only love bad men that I think I can change. That’s emotionally healthy. I’ve been therapized.

  35. rk535 says:

    Good episode. my heart broke for Rumple. I didn’t agree with Neal/Bae turning on him, but I understand it character wise. I wonder what hole they are going to put Neal in the meantime. Reminds me so much of how Desmond was trapped in the hatch on Lost. LOL!

    Also, Emma’s breakdown seemed a little forced. The writers seem to forget that just a few days prior, Neal was happily engaged to Tamara, ready to move on with his life. Emma literally needed to tackle him on the street for him to get him. Though i understand that they were each other’s first love, I don’t see Emma and Neal possessing the True Love pull that Snow and Charming have.

    Looking forward to next week’s episode. I like how much more fast paced this season seems to be in comparison to last season.

    • Joey says:

      If you actually listened to what Neal had said when he was describing his time with Tamara, he was hardly “happily engaged”. He has said numerous times that he didn’t go to Storybrooke after the curse had broken because he thought that Emma would not want to see him because she would have figured that he had sent her to jail (which is what she actually did think), so he did his best to try to get over her with Tamara, but he never really did, hence the mentions of Neal (and Emma’s!) lingering feelings for each other last season by characters like Rumpel and Tamara, etc.

    • Gail says:

      Not sure Emma is Neal’s first love. He was hundreds of years old by the time he met her. We don’t know how much time he spent in Neverland . Hook must have been in Neverland longer than Neil as Neil aged and Hook has not. Unless the reason Hook didn’t age was because he was in suspended animation in Fairyland during the 28 year curse.

  36. Pat says:

    I am wondering if ” Peter Pan ” is the one who the seer predicted would be Rumbles downfall. Rumble thinks it is Henry. Even though everyone assumes Henry brought the two together but their relationship has been nothing but rocky. I think Rumble will be the one to save Henry and it looks like also, Neal which will turn their relationship closer, all done at the hands of Peter Pan. Also, next weeks promo shows Hook & Emma kissing. Wow, love it but what will this do to her when she finds out that Neal is alive??????

  37. jm says:

    Could be Pan Rumple´s father? or some member of his family?

  38. legalchef says:

    Did anyone else notice that Pan’s main hench-boy (I don’t remember his name) was not participating in the dancing but rather was sitting there glowering at Henry/Pan while Pan was talking to Henry? I wonder if he’s going to turn on Pan at some point…

  39. Ann says:

    In this episode, in regards to the story of young Bae and Rumple, did it take place after Bae threw that magic bean and go to a “place without magic”? Or was this storyline taking place before that? It’s getting so confusing with these child actors growing up so fast. The boy playing young Bae has aged so much, it’s confusing the timeline for me. If this story took place before young Bae went to the place without magic, they really should have recast the part with a younger boy…Same with young Snow White. As good as Bailee Madison is, she really shouldn’t have played young Snow White last season, because she had aged so much that it seemed like years had past between her first encounter with Regina and the time in that story, when that wasn’t true.

    • Cass says:

      Yes, this was supposed to take place between “Desperate Souls” and “The Return,” which is so ridonkulous because not only is teen Bae now taller than Rumple, he’s lankier, his voice has changed, and he’s lost his little chipmunk cheeks. But I’m trying to ignore all that because I love Dylan as Bae.

  40. Angel says:

    Is it just me or is Peter Pan a twisted messed up in the head little boy? I have a feeling he was a friend of Rumple’s when he was a child or something to that nature…just a thought. Anyway, the story keeps getting more twisted, and I love it! I want Emma to find Neal, they belong together, not her and Hook as next week foreshadowed. I love Hook, but he needs someone else, like Regina. That is probably wishful thinking on that pair up. I like this season, though I do miss some of the other characters back in Storybook.

  41. With the way the seer’s previous predictions went, I think Rumple’s undoing (if by Henry) is making him a man again. If Pan is the actual person, I’m all for it and hope Rumple can kill Pan and Bae and Belle and all of them can be happy!

  42. Anne says:

    Bae sould just become evil at this point and his story end with daddy dearest killing him. Hook and Emma is an okay pairing but will never hold a candle to Wooden Swan.

  43. qj201 says:

    undoing = Rumple will have to give up or will lose his magic and being the Dark One will be undone.

    • Ginger Snap says:

      I’m thinking his “undoing” is the end of his dark side, not his magic. Ultimately, the show is about the power of true love. It will take an act of pure self-less love to undo that. And it’s the only way that Rumple can be reunited with Neal. One act of pure self-less love.

      • Ginger Snap says:

        And the only way for Regina to remove the blackness from her heart is in doing the same thing. The question is how does Robin Hood help her with that?

      • jj says:

        Would he still have magic without his dark side? He wasn’t magical pre-dark one powers.

        • Ginger Snap says:

          We’ll see. If were headed to the series finale, I would guess that he loses his magic. But if we’re headed to a other 11 episode season, then probably not.

  44. HBH says:

    Robbie Kay is AMAZING. I love him. That final scene after he asked Henry if he could here the music was so good. Or is it just me?
    I wish we could see more of Regina. I’m a huge fan of Lana Parilla, Robert Carlyle and now Robbie. I guess i like the evil characters more.

    Snow and charming are really annoying me. They are just useless. I’m excited for the Hook and Emma kiss scene next week. I’d rather see her with hook than neal. he’s kinda annoying, but i loved him in this episode.

  45. Kelly says:

    Michael Raymond James and Robert Carlyle were amazing last night. Love their acting and chemistry together. I hope to see lots more of present day Nealfire and Rumple explored. I loved Neal getting free of the lost boy and tricking Pan with the arrow.

  46. jb says:

    I believe in previous episodes pan has said to rumple you’re a coward just like your father. I think it was the episode where he gave him that doll thing. so im not sure if pan is his brother. maybe like his step brother or something seeing as it appears the grew up together or knew each other when they were young. maybe that’s why they don’t like one another their parents got together and rumples father wound up doing something cowardly and hated him ever since.

    • Ginger Snap says:

      Isn’t it amazing that Pan knows just what to say to manipulate everyone at their weakest point? How does he know that about Rumple? How does he know that Emma feels like an orphan? How does he know about the prophecy?

  47. Kit says:

    Henry HAS to be faking it! What kind of “truest believer” would give up so easily on 2 powerful Moms, a if-he-was-gonna-be-dead-he’d-be-dead-long-ago Dad, & 3 dauntless grandparents? Give me a break. The kid believes too strongly that anything is possible, there’s no way he’d feel lost already. Also, Hook portended by saying early in the episode that hero types never give up hope. The writers will totally lose me if Henry’s participation in the revelry is real.

  48. Ann says:

    This series is getting so convoluted like Lost was. I just hope the writers have an actual end game for this series and isn’t making it up as they go along, like they did with Lost (even though they knew 3 years in advance when the show would end). The series finale for that show ruined the entire series!

  49. Lynn says:

    I liked last night…it was solid. I loved what they’re doing with Pan. Put I’ll admit I miss the ‘romance’ on the show…I mean I love the story line and Neverland…and I love the the characters growth but fairy tales have ‘romance’ too and I feel the show is dropping the ball there. And I still find I love Bae but the only thing I find interesting about Neal are his scenes with his father and that’s because I love Rumple….I am looking forward to Hook’s back story and Ariel though…

  50. BrenoGa says:

    Can someone please explain the chronology of neal’s life for me?!?! im completely lost. He was sucked into a portal when he was a kid, but then he managed to come back to his father and THEN moved to neverland with pan and then escaped to NYC? I was pretty sure that the bae who was sucked into the portal wa younger than the one we’ve seen in the flashbacks on this last episode.

    The chronology could also be: bae with rumple > neverland > bae with rumple > bae sucked into a portal to NYC. somebody help me please! LOL.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      Young Bae entering the portal was the last Rumple saw of his son, until NYC. Everything else came before then. The confusion is understandable since the Young Bae actor is unavoidably growing!

    • confused says:

      So glad you asked this question…because I was confused as well. Hard to believe that all this with Pan / Neverland / Captain Hook would have happened to Bay before he fell through portal to Storybrook/NYC