TV Season Champs: NCIS Outdraws Sunday Night Football, Top-Rated New Comedies All Got Axed

TV Ratings Rankings NCIS Grey's AnatomyWith May Sweeps over, the overall rankings for the broadcast networks’ 2012-13 TV season have been released, and CBS’ NCIS this time around seized the title of Most Watched Program, edging out NBC’s Sunday Night Football with an average of 21.3 million weekly viewers (including all available DVR playback data).

SNF, however, still is demo king, having averaged a weekly 7.9 rating.

RELATED | TVLine’s 2013 Renewal Scorecard: What’s Coming Back? What’s Getting Cancelled?

In the coveted 18-49 demo, ABC’s Grey’s Anatomy (averaging a 4.1 rating this season) edged out NCIS by a tenth for No. 1 Drama honors, while The Big Bang Theory dominated both comedy rankings.

In the reality-TV realm, this was the year that NBC’s The Voice bested Idol in the demo, though Fox’s long-running singing competition averaged a larger weekly crowd (with its Wednesday performance shows).

One “fun” fact on display below: The three highest-rated comedies to premiere this season… All. Got. Cancelled. Meanwhile, among freshman dramas, Live+7 DVR playback led Fox’s The Following to an eleventh-hour victory over NBC’s Revolution.

Lastly, look at CBS laying claim to the most watched cancelled show: Vegas and its 12 frickin’ million viewers. Rich people problems!

RELATED | Your Complete Fall TV Grid: What’s on When? And Versus What?

Here are assorted rankings for the broadcast networks’ offerings; our sister site Deadline has posted the complete list. Hit Comments to share what surprises/delights you.

1 | The Big Bang Theory, CBS (6.2)
2 | Modern Family, ABC (4.9)
3 | Two and a Half Men, CBS (4.1)
In Total Viewers | The Big Bang Theory, CBS (18.7 million)

1 | How to Live With Your Parents…, ABC (2.4)
2 | Partners, CBS (2.3)
3 | Go On, NBC (2.2)
In Total Viewers | How to Live With Your Parents…, ABC (7.1 mil)

1 | Grey’s Anatomy, ABC (4.1)
2 | NCIS, CBS (4.0)
3 | Once Upon a Time, ABC (3.6)
In Total Viewers | NCIS, CBS (21.3 million)

1 | The Following, Fox (4.3)
2 | Revolution, NBC (3.9)
3 | Elementary, CBS (3.)
In Total Viewers | Elementary, CBS (12.7 million)

1 | The Voice (Monday), NBC (5.1)
2 | American Idol (Wednesday), Fox (4.6)
3 | The Voice (Tuesday), NBC (4.6)
4 | American Idol (Thursday), Fox (4.3)
5 | Survivor: Philippines, CBS (3.5)
In Total Viewers | American Idol (Wednesday), Fox (15 million)

1 | Rules of Engagement, CBS (2.6)
2 | How to Live With Your Parents…, ABC (2.4)
3 | 666 Park Avenue, ABC (2.4)
In Total Viewers | Vegas, CBS (12 million)

1 | Nikita, The CW (0.4)
2 | The Carrie Diaries, The CW (0.6)
3 | Beauty and the Beast, The CW (0.7)
Total Viewers | Nikita, The CW (1.4 million)

RELATED | 2011-12 TV Season Rankings: Sunday Night Football Ends American Idol‘s Streak; Once Upon a Time, Person of Interest and Rob Score Wins

NBC Sunday Night Football (7.9)
The Big Bang Theory (6.2)
The Voice (Monday) (5.1)
Modern Family
The OT
American Idol (Wednesday)
The Voice (Tuesday)
American Idol (Thursday)
The Following
Grey’s Anatomy

NCIS (21.3 mil)
NBC Sunday Night Football
(21 mil)
The Big Bang Theory
(18.7 mil)
NCIS: Los Angeles
Person of Interest
American Idol
Dancing With the Stars (Monday)
American Idol (Thursday)
The Voice (Monday)
Two and a Half Men

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Joni says:

    Why isn’t cable shows in here?? Wouldn’t Walking Dead and Duck Dynasty be one and two?

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      This data only encompasses the broadcast networks; I have edited the story to make that more clear.

  2. Esaul says:

    And people think NCIS will suffer to Shield. HAH.

    • Jimmy says:

      While they do have different audiences, NCIS might take a dent if S.H.I.E.L.D. is any good. It all depends on the fanboys (and girls).

  3. Mike says:

    Last Man Standing isn’t new. This was Season 2. Although they did recast multiple characters and make Tim Allen a horrible person.

    Good chart otherwise.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      Honestly, that was the root of that error; LMS has been removed from the “new” list.

  4. JAA says:

    is that for real? how can Once Upon a Time average a 3.6 in the demo if it was doing around 2.2 in the Spring?

  5. says:

    Sunday night football averages those viewers over a three hour broadcast. NCIS, just one. Important note.

    • titoveli says:

      ncis repeats count on the average to so its fair play cause snf dont get repeats . If you take all the rerun episodes out of “NCIS’s” season and compare its original episodes to football originals, “NCIS” wins with 22.46 million . ncis kills it

      • Claire says:

        Numbers game! I love it — love the numbers. Waiting for the next record breaking episode to beat all episodes. Season 11, tick tock tick tock. Congrats to the cast and crew!

    • J. Norman says:

      And that is the only reason NBC didn’t finish in last this season, even with the Voice

  6. Alex says:

    Great list! I love seeing these end of season things! Kind of not such a good year for new hits, especially in the comedy department…

  7. GeoDiva says:

    Person of Interest is in the top 10 and nobody ever talks about it. It is a great show.

      • Roz11 says:

        True, but what about its demos? Why is it not performing as per its ratings and quality? I am in the famous demo range and I do love Person of interest. What is more, I wouldn’t watch any of the programmes competing with POI this last season unless screwed to the chair. But I don’t live in the US. And I wonder: Is it only kids and people over 45 watching it? Is it mostly men (resulting, as it has been stated, in a smaller audience?) Is it retired people? Please, someone explain!? I tend to like shows with little buzz like PoI, and I’d hate it if, in the middle of developing this wonderful universe, the show was cancelled because it’s not performing as expected (by CBS numbers) -specially since we have no idea what’s going to happen with the new schedule, at 10 pm)

        • Dax says:

          I’m not sure what you are worried about. Person of Interest averaged a 2.9 in the 18-49 demo this year. That puts it ahead of Criminal Minds and NCIS:LA and keeps it in the Top 10 list for Broadcast Networks. It’s a good rating. And by the way, it isn’t just men who watch the show. There are plenty of women who enjoy POI.

    • John says:

      It is great. Love the Bryant Park and Washington Square locatiuon shots.

  8. GinnyB says:

    I said it once and I’ll say it again…CBS are a bunch of idiots to have cancelled Vegas. That was one of their best shows.

    • Ellen says:

      No they weren’t. This list includes all the DVR playback. While great for PR purposes, it means nothing in the real world where the money gets made. If you look at just the live viewing numbers they are much lower and the 18-49 demo was very low. That is the number advetisers care about. To put it simply, Vegas was not making money for CBS. TV is a business and in business if something is not making you money you stop doing it. End of story.

  9. Cheo says:

    Wow; if The CW were a retailer, it would be Dollar General.

    • mia says:

      But dang, sometimes you can get some awesome stuff at the dollar store lol

      • 4theloveoffilm says:

        Lol. Love this!

      • tamara says:

        Perfect!! :)

        The thing is that the lowest rated show (Nikita) is one of my top5 shows overall (and I follow about 30 shows a week). So I’m very happy it got renewed despite its low ratings.
        One of the best shows of all broadcast networks.

        In my opinion, The CW has 3 of the best shows of tv at the moment: Nikita, Supernatural and The Vampire Diaries.

        So people can kick on CW, but they’ve got some pretty great shows, despite what people say about the network.

        • Sash112 says:

          I agree with you 90%. -except about the VD thing-. I find it so horribly boring, cliche and lame when I hear the typical “CW-network for teenagers” drag! I’d say the percentage is about as in the other networks? And Supernatural will make it as one of the phenomena in the history of tv. Such a fighter. Just like its characters!

      • mehvash says:

        exactly!! dollar store has some great stuff. :) :)

  10. JAA says:

    do you know how much Scandal averaged in the demo?

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      2.8 — with 8.5 million total viewers.

      • JAA says:

        thanks, so it’s true what they said, Scandal is a must watch live show

        • Elyse says:

          Everyone that I know who watched Scandal watches it live. I don’t watch… yet… I am gonna get caught up on the first and second seasons this summer because everyone talks about it so much!

          • Angie says:

            Stopped watching live because of the violence. Now I watch it a few days later and ff through those scenes.

          • Sash112 says:

            I tried and got bored after 3 episodes…too much of a soap for my tastes. I don’t feel like trying again anyway. I don’t care much about bombshells and over the top drama a la Grey’s Anatomy. But I might be wrong and I’d hate to judge something I haven’t really seen. I wonder if it’s any better than GA, though.

          • jenna says:

            @Sash112 I stopped watching grey’s a couple years ago but am addicted to Scandal. I don’t think anyone can deny that its taken a turn into soap-opera territory though. A la greys there are the long repetitious soliloquies, however they don’t annoy me as much as they did in the first season

  11. Do you have a link to all of the data? There are some shows not listed that I am interested in how they did.

  12. lshepard47 says:

    Do you know how much Bones averaged in the demo?

  13. cjeffery7 says:

    Go On…. and f*** yourself NBC.

    • Tess says:

      I think they already have, cjeffery7!

      Really makes you wonder why Go On wasn’t spared from the chopping block over some other shows NBC chose to keep around…surely it would’ve fit nicely into their Thursday comedy block in the Fall too.

    • Nick Zazal says:

      Agreed! Bummer they couldn’t see the potential in “Go On”. Would have grown in Season 2.

      • Ellen says:

        Shows that grow in their second season usually exhibit some sort of increase in their ratings as the season progresses. Go On’s ratings plundged over the edge and continued to fall at an alarming rate. There isn’t a sane person in the world who would think that was an indication of possible growth.

    • Alex says:

      To those who claim Goon would have “grown,” the show plummeted in the ratings over the course of the season. It was a loser.

  14. tahina says:

    Grey’s and NCI will go on and on and..unsurprising! :)

  15. Rich Abey says:

    Whats Castle’s overall season ratings after the DTR data is added?

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      2.7 — with 12.25 million total viewers.

      • Rich Abey says:

        Thanks a lot. You are so considerate towards us!
        Great to see Castle maintaining steady, strong (if not unspectacular) ratings and viewer no’s amidst all the hullabulla. Oh god I love Castle so much and its been a staple part of my life for so long and given me great joy (and angst too!) and continues to do so. Wish for a bit of change in the structure of next season from AM to refresh things up and increase the ratings even further!

  16. JP says:

    Seeing this makes me even more upset that ABC canceled How To Live With Your Parents. ABC really has a knack for canceling good comedies solely based on the fact that they don’t match Modern Family’s numbers. Its such a shame. I loved GCB and Don’t Trust the B and they prematurely canceled both.

    • mia says:

      GCB….how I miss you. So very much.

    • Leah says:

      I’m really going to miss How To Live, too! I wasn’t crazy about it at first, but its really grown on me the past couple weeks. Don’t even get me started on the agony I feel over no more Don’t Trust the B. (God. Those are the two most ridiculous titles ever).

  17. Debra says:

    Grey’s is still at the top! 9 years and still strong! woohoo!!

  18. bobbie says:

    Thank goodness some of the shows I like are there in the high rating slots (though most are not). The Good Wife, for example, is sooooo good, and yet it’s not mentioned. It’s a network show. It’s just one of the best shows! I like NCIS as much as anyone, and they’ve been consistent in delivering great shows. But, there are a lot of great shows that don’t show up, either because they’re not network, Psych, GOT, True Blood, etc., and I’m glad they don’t have to go thru this horrible process, though I’m sure they have their own process.

    I’m dismayed that Psych only has 14 episodes this season!!! I waited a year for Psych, and now there’s only 14 episodes!!! (But, yes I’m grateful it’s still on the air and we have another season to look forward to!) Luckily Psych is eminently re-watchable :)

    • Psh. C'mon Son! says:

      Couldn’t agree more! I survived off all the other seasons of Psych while I waited for it to come back.. I can’t believe is the season finale already.

      Can this show please stay on forever??

    • JBC says:

      Psych is my go to show when I am feeling down. It ALWAYS makes me laugh. Hope they have a few more seasons.

    • tamara says:

      I love Psych. It’s gonna be hard to say goodbye.
      I think there’s only one the finale left next week :(
      So many great years, so much fun…

  19. Kaitie says:

    shouldnt have canceled partners it was such a cute show

    • jenna says:

      loved partners! Was easily my favorite new show this year, wish we would have gotten to see all the filmed episodes

  20. Nick Zazal says:

    Why did no one jump on picking up Vegas after the CBS cancellation if it was getting 12 million viewers? I wondered the same about Terra Nova last year when it got cancelled. You’d think some of the other networks who would kill for 12 million viewers would have given it a look. I’ll never understand the rationale behind some of the network cancellation decisions. Sigh….

    • Jackson says:

      Because most of those 12 million viewers did not watch live and/or were outside of the all important 18-49 demo. Advertisers do not care about people who watch on DVR because they skip the commercials. Ad rates are set according to the number of LIVE viewers and they pay more to shows that have large numbers of 18-49 live viewers. Vegas had neither of those. It was not making money for the network. It’s a sad reality but total viewers simply do not matter much when it comes to network renewal decisions.

  21. cdeno says:

    Here’s what I don’t get the to 2 drama’s NCIS and Grey’s Anatomy probably receive the least amount of network support and promotion. Why is that?

  22. cdeno says:

    I also find it amusing/astounding that Grey’s and NCIS are 2 of the oldest shows on tv right now and are still beating out most if not all new shows (gotta love that)

    • lily says:

      I know! However, I find myself not wanting to watch new shows until they have been renewed for a second season (since they always seem to get cancelled if I invest myself early on) and then I catch up with season 1 over the summer. I love grey’s and ncis because they are reasonably “safe” in my eyes and I can invest myself in the characters. On a side note, so glad to see ONCE was third! Love that show! :)

      • B says:

        I completely agree with this sentiment! I don’t understand how networks can’t see that preemptively cancelling new shows is worse for them in the long run. Why start watching a new series when chances are it will just be cancelled halfway through

  23. Christian says:

    Look at that — The Following is broadcast’s #1 drama. I wonder when was the last time a new show was #1.. maybe Glee in 2010? I’m surprised Fox isn’t making a bigger deal out of this.

    • JakeK says:

      It’s just the number one NEW show. And yes, they should get that message out. They’re submitting it for Emmys and it will be on Netflix this summer. Hopefully the audience grows.

  24. Scott M says:

    The only thing that I watch off of any of those list is Sunday Night Football.

  25. tvaddict says:

    I still don’t understand the cancelling of How to live with your parents… I figured they would at least give it a second season

    • Babygate says:

      Agreed! It premiered so late and they didn’t give it a proper chance to get an audience. But they renewed The Neighbors which spend most of the season in the upper 1’s and it was scheduled between two solid performers.

      • Live w/Parents RIP says:

        I agree with your assessment – Neighbors got renewed because it is produced inside the Disney/ABC stable – Live w/Parents was not. Believe me, had it been the other way around, and Neighbors was not produced by Disney/ABC Studios, not only would Neighbors not have been renewed for a second season, that show never would have seen the light of day – it would not even have been give the initial ‘go’ to film the pilot. I think the world of the folks at ABC, but they really need to take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves if there is a better way to green-light pilots. Neighbors is the wrong way, and it damaging the ABC ‘brand.’

  26. TV Critic says:

    All this demo stuff is complete BS. It promotes inaccurate measurement of real total viewership and age discrimination.

    • JBC says:

      Exactly. Total viewership should be most important. Over 49ers are still doing a whole lot of purchasing in this country.

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        Again, it’s not that over-49s don’t spend money. It’s that the younger demo is deemed less set in their purchasing ways and brand loyalty, and thus are more susceptible to an ad’s influence. Ultimately, commercials are designed to change buying behavior, so advertisers seek to speak to the most receptive pool.

        • Emily says:

          This is true. That’s why there were always these new products in the markets on my university campus that I couldn’t find anywhere else.

        • JAO says:

          Unfortunately that is advertising theory that has been around since media started doing reach and frequency calculations. I think with the aging of the boomers advertisers are missing a huge market. I bet they would find the over 50s are not so brand loyal anymore.

      • Jackson says:

        Also, over 49 viewers watch a lot of LIVE tv. It’s not that advertisers don’t care about then, it’s just that they are so very easy to reach. Why spend a lot of money for 50+ viewers when you know you are all but guaranteed to reach them at any given moment. Younger viewers are VERY, VERY hard to get (we are talking live viewers here, not on line or DVR viewing) and therefor advertisers are willing to pay a lot more money to reach that scarse demographic. Consequently, Broadcast network focus on shows that will bring in the most live 18-49 viewers because it means more ad dollars.

        • Sash112 says:

          I don’t understand: are 18-49 ers ” less set in their purchasing ways and brand loyalty, and thus more susceptible to an ad’s influence” (seems logical to me) or ” VERY, VERY hard to get ” (makes sense too, since I guess they watch less tv)?
          Maybe advertising companies are simply wrong and should reset their preconceptions. And networks should find newer, more realistic means to measure their audiences.

          • Dax says:

            Ssh112, it’s a little of both. They are less set in their purchasing ways and thus desirable to advertisers. They are also very hard to reach via TV advertising so they are even more in demand. It is perhaps the most fundamental principal of economics. The law of supply and demand. There is a high demand for demo viewers and there is a very low supply of them available. Therefore, advertisers are willing to pay more money to reach them.

  27. Britta Unfiltered says:

    21 million? Dang, that beats Walking Dead, doesn’t it? Well, just goes to show how many baby boomers we have in our country, lol. Yep, my grandparents and stepfather just love that show. :)

    • Babygate says:

      As far as I know, we only get the overnight ratings for TWD, not the DVR numbers or the figures for other viewing platforms. Funny, everybody I know that watches TWD falls within the 18-49 demo and if it were to be included it would beat just about every show on this list.

  28. Babybop says:

    Loved Partners (which was not given a proper chance!) and Go On. Still bitter about Go On…

  29. Linda Lawrence says:

    I still am sad Golden Boy will not continue!

  30. Babygate says:

    It’s interesting how many more viewers shows can gain after the live showing. I am especially surprised that The Following came out on top considering that it teetered around the low 2’s for a good part of the season. Only one comment, as a 15-episode show, The Following had a very tight scheduling. Never missed a week and never had a repeat which allowed it to keep momentum. Also, unlike the 22-24 episode shows, it wasn’t subject to the usual viewer fatigue that begins to set in sometime after the half of the season. So, in terms of ratings, it had an advantage. I wonder if these are the numbers that advertisers rely on to make buying decisions.

    • John says:

      “It’s interesting how many more viewers shows can gain after the live showing.”

      Time shifting means no longer being a slave to an arbitrary (for me) broadcast schedule. And I’m not all that certain on the thesis ads aren’t still seen: to FFWD through an ad block you do have to concentrate on the screen at the least… isn’t the same sort of message but there’s still one there.

  31. Pat says:

    I love NCIS! This has been my favorite show, for years. So to the producer’s, keep up the good work and I hope it goes on and on.

  32. Aprilcot26 says:

    I don’t get all the love for NCIS; to me it’s pretty meh. I don’t know anyone under 50 who watches that show. To each his own, I suppose.

    • jalahyacinth says:

      I cam think of 20 people, myself included, off the top of my head, in our 20s and 30s who love that show and have for years. :)

    • Maria says:

      Most of the people I know who watch NCIS are under 50. Myself included. But, so what if its viewers are a little bit older? Does being in your 50’s or 60’s make you less of a person somehow?

      • Jane says:

        To sponsors, yes, anyone over 40 doesn’t count. I never have understood this. We are the ones with the money.

        • TV Critic says:

          It should not ever be about the sponsor, but the quality of the show. This is why new shows never get a chance to build an audience if slow out of the gate.

          If this method adopted today was adopted back when TV was actually good, then a number of quality shows that started out slow-only to become hits-would have been canceled after one season.

          It is sad to see that quality shows can be found on cable thus forcing non-cable subscribers to purchase cable. At least there are now ways to view those shows without having cable.

          • Mellie says:

            Unfortunately, it has been proven over and over again that the quality of the show is not directly related to its ratings. Like it or not, ratings are what pay the bills. If networks ignored ratings and just stuck with shows that critics liked then they would go bankrupt within a year.

          • TV Critic says:

            You do know there are new ways to measure viewership: ever heard of social media and fansites?

            Oh, I forgot, the networks have all their eggs in one basket.

      • Claire says:

        It’s interesting that this is brought up. My mother is in her early 70s and received a call the other day. It was a group wanting to do a survey on TV shows. She said as long as they make it quick. Would you mind giving your age and said she would mind, but she ‘will tell them she is in her early 70s’. They said ‘oh, well, is there someone else in the household who we can speak with?’!!!!!! She said, ‘no, are you discriminating against my age?’ The response was jumbled and my mother ended the ‘survey’ with a click. TV marketing — keeping it classy. =_=

    • Well, I’m 45 and my son is 11….we love NCIS! So I’m in the demo rating and he’s not. But like you said, to each his own. :-)

  33. Benny Hill says:

    Will CBS have to change that commercial about CSI being the most watched show for years and years??

  34. phamster says:

    You would think a struggling network like NBC would jump at the chance to pick up CBS’s castoffs.

  35. Jared says:

    Still so upset over the demise of PARTNERS. It was so funny! The only new show to actually make you laugh out loud at the TV.

  36. JL says:

    Calling the category “TOP DRAMA” is a bit confusing… maybe “TOP RETURNING DRAMA” would be better?

  37. james says:

    Is the “top drama” category just “top returning dramas”? Because otherwise, why would the Top New Dramas be higher than the Top Dramas?

  38. Paul8148 says:

    I have not watch the show, but why did ABC canceled How to Live with your Parents. Either they like the next batch of Comedies alot, or have another script/show in mind for Chalke?

  39. Nero theTVFiddler says:

    Terrific job Matt – I always enjoy these final season reviews and tallies; it helps to bring the long television season to a proper close and allows for some reflection. Congratulations to you and Michael and the TVL team – another great season of TV reporting by all of you! :)

    As far as my greatest surprise of the list – that 18-49 demo top-3 for comedies – ABC’s Live w/Parents, CBS’ Partners, and NBC’s Go On – all canceled. Ouch! That is really a shame, and I have a feeling someone at ABC and/or at NBC will be haunted by the cancellation of Live w/Parents and Go On – two good shows, fine casts, outstanding leads and great storyline potential. ABC and NBC will regret these cancellations at this time next season when their new comedies end up with lower numbers.

    However, I have mixed feelings about Partners. I watched the show without fail, and liked it [I’m a big Sophia Bush fan]. However, now I look back and wonder if Partners had been a huge success, would CBS have wanted to bring HIMYM back for a final season 9? Perhaps not. Hence, I’ll miss Partners [probably will miss SB most], but I am grateful that HIMYM is getting that final S9 – I still believe there is some good story left to tell in that Barney-Robin -… and Ted dynamic. And I believe HIMYM was ranked #15 in the demo for the 2012-13 season – that’s quite good.

    See you in September .

    • B says:

      I think S9 of How I met more had to do with the actors wanting to return rather than the network wanting to renew for another season. How I met is a powerhouse show for CBS, its just good business for them to renew the show for as long as possible

  40. Vanny says:

    I am bummed about Go On. It was really funny, and to me, had huge potential.. maybe it was too expensive due to the large cast, but damn, it was clever sometimes. Very sad…

    • Oh well, maybe next year ... says:

      I also thought about the large cast of ‘Go On’ – the cost of the show may have been a bit higher then normal for a new series. However, NBC and the show’s producers could have made some adjustments (reducing the cast size and/or reducing the number of episodes the cast worked on) to better manage the cost/episode. The core of the show was Perry/Benanti/White, and they could have built-out the scripts and characters from that three-character core.
      There is an old saying – “Never shoot the old horse until you’ve learned how to ride the new one.” If (a big IF) NBC believes they have a better group of new pilots on tap, then canceling a show like ‘Go On’ will make sense by this time next season. If, however, NBC is incorrect [has that ever happened before?], and their new group of comedy shows tank, NBC will wish they had ‘Go On’ back. I look at the new list of NBC comedies – the MJF show may make it, but beyond that?