Once Upon a Time Bosses Tease the Final Four Episodes, Four Reveals and One 'Really Big' Twist

Once Upon a Time Season 2 SpoilersWhen Once Upon a Time unspools Season 2′s final four episodes starting this Sunday at 8/7c, there is one thing the ABC drama will definitely — and finally — have going for it: momentum.

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GOING TO EXTREMES | After seeing the show suffer through multiples stops and starts since its winter hiatus (a problem that a lass named Alice might remedy next TV season), Adam Horowitz says that he and fellow series creator Eddy Kitsis look forward to presenting “an uninterrupted string of episodes where we can really tell a story and build to a finish we’re really, really excited for the audience to see.”

Speaking with TVLine from the set in Vancouver, where he and Kitsis were overseeing the filming of the Season 2 finale (airing May 12), Horowitz eagerly anticipated exploring “two extremes” over this final run of episodes: the intimate, and the scope. “The intimate of what our cast can pull off and the emotions they can convey always floors us,” he says. “As does the scope of the storytelling, and the visuals that our crew is able to achieve.”

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SAVED BY THE BELLE? | Kicking things off this Sunday is “Lacey,” an episode in which amnesic Belle adopts an alter ego and delves into a not-at-all-provincial life. Explaining the greater purpose of this, the first of the final four hours, Kitsis says, “We understand that Rumple and/or Mr. Gold is a man who has darkness inside him, and all season he’s been searching for the light, for a way to be better now that his son is in town. And we also know there is a prophecy that said Henry would be his ‘undoing’, and he said to the seer, ‘Well, I’ll just kill him.’ EMILIE DE RAVIN, ROBERT CARLYLEBut now that it’s his grandson, he’s facing a conundrum, and Belle has always been the person who’s brought out the best in him. What ‘Lacey’ does is watch Rumple struggle with his inner demon.”

PHOTOS | Once Upon a Time Season 2 Spoilers — Belle As ‘Lacey’

WHAT DOES TAMARA BRING? | Speaking of demons, a couple of real devils have recently descended upon Storybrooke: Tamara, who unbeknownst to everyone purposely pursued fiance Neal in the name of finding magic, and her secret cohort/paramour Greg aka Owen, the boy whose father Kurt went MIA after they stumbled upon the freshly materialized Maine burg in 1983.

Tamara and Greg’s mysterious agenda will be made clear over the next two episodes (“That reveal takes off like a rocket,” effuses Horowitz), and as hinted in the last episode, Regina — having deduced Greg’s true identity — “will be front and center in that story,” Kitsis says. “There are not a lot of coincidences here…,” Horowitz says with a smile. “There’s a reason for all of the connections we’ve revealed so far — and some we have yet to reveal.” (And yes, Kurt Flynn’s fate will be divulged by season’s end.)

RELATED | Will Once Upon a Time Lose ‘Tamara’ to The Walking Dead?

NO PLACE LIKE HOME… | But maybe as these ne’er-do-wells nose around Storybrooke, Emma, Snow White et al can escape to, say, another realm? After all, “the [magic] beans are growing,” Kitsis reminds, soon offering everyone the option of returning to the Fairytale Land That Is. But would Emma join her ‘rents for the ride…? “The thing with Emma is a year ago she wasn’t a believer, and it took Henry eating an apple turnover Once Upon a Time Spoilers: Colin O'Donoghue and going into a sleep curse and her fighting a dragon to realize it all was true,” Kitsis recounts. “Then she went back to [Fairytale Land] and found it to be burnt and full of ogres. And like anybody, Emma struggles with this. She’s a person who has found that she has magic inside her and isn’t quite comfortable with it yet, so the thought of going back and having that be her life is very frightening.”

RELATED | Once Upon a Time Spin-Off Scoop: Cora May Reign Alongside Wonderland’s Red Queen

‘CROCODILE’ ROCKED | Elsewhere as Season 2 builds to its climax (airing May 12 and titled “And Straight On Till Morning”), Captain Hook — who (reportedly) went MIA soon after stabbing his “Crocodile” in NYC — will resurface “very soon, and under surprising circumstances,” Kitsis teases. The pirate’s past with Neal/Bae will then be detailed in the penultimate episode, “Second Star to the Right.” (“We can’t read every theory out there on the Internet, but this [connection] has so far been kept secret,” Kitsis offers.)

Episode 21 will also let loose with the Rumplestiltskin/Bae “game-changer” that Robert Carlyle alluded to at last month’s PaleyFest panel. “I know what he was hinting at,” Kitsis allows, “and yeah, it’s really big.”

In this episode of Spoiler Alert!: Does Once Upon a Time‘s Tamara Have a Secret Identity?

Want even more scoop on Once Upon a Time? Email mattmtvguy@gmail.com and your question may be answered via Matt’s Inside Line.

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91 Comments
  1. Josh says:

    I really hope this show gets it’s act together. It was my favorite new show last fall but this fall it was strong but it’s quickly fallen apart into an inconsistent, poorly paced and predictable mess :(.

    • tallzeez says:

      Well I wouldn’t call it predictable from my point of view but yeah they have been sort of been letting the momentum of the show lag in places which wasn’t a problem in the beginning as much as it is now.

    • kath says:

      For me, a big part of the problem was getting away from what was the compelling storyline of last season, good vs evil in the world of magic, and into every little side story, not just Belle and Cora but Hook and Neal and Tamara and August and Whale and the Giant and Mulan and Aurora and Philip and Greg and every occasional character that pops up.

      I’m tired of waiting for the storylines I care about because it seems the show is spending time on everything but what I’m interested in.

    • TVDIVA says:

      My problem with OUAT is that it followed the same crippling pattern as True Blood. The first season had a small group of core characters and the entire season followed one big story arc. Then just like True Blood, the second season has more characters and story arcs than you can throw fairy dust on. You need a map of many lands and a fairy tale phone book to keep up with everything. That, and the showrunners minds are split working on a spin-off show about Wonderland when they should be focused on keeping the original show on even ground. Rant over. IF OUAT does this again next season in the first few episodes, I am done with them.

    • Tarc says:

      I don’t agree with that at all. Scope takes scale, and scale takes time on TV.

  2. Zayne says:

    All the breaks have really hurt the pacing of this second half. Although I will agree that it’s even been a little all over the place quality-wise. Manhattan was stellar, Tiny and In the Name of the Brother, not so much. I’m hoping these last four will pull it back to the amazing level it started the year at.

  3. I don’t know why, but I think they are going to pull an ANGELUS kind of trick…. Prince Charming will become his evil brother……

    • EL says:

      I REALLY, REALLY hope not. While, at times cheesy, I LOVE the Snow/Charming/Emma/Henry dynamic and want more of the bonding of that family.

  4. xaverie says:

    I like how they talk about Emma and her journey yet Emma has literally done NOTHING but be a plot device ALL season.

    • Cassie says:

      Here’s hoping we’ll get to see some character development in season 3..

    • kath says:

      Exactly!

      And speaking of Emma, if they’re going to tease her with a guy, could they put her with someone who doesn’t abuse or abandon her? The last thing I want to see is Emma with a guy who treats her the way Neal, August and Hook have.

  5. Brooke says:

    What ever happened to the other characters they introduced in season 1? They made us sit through all those stories and now it’s like they don’t even exist anymore. All we get are new characters and no resolution to the characters they already introduced.

  6. xaverie says:

    So Rumple tries to be “better”, i guess that means Belle will beg him not to kill people maybe three, four times?

  7. Rrrrrr says:

    I’m so tired of them saying that so far no one has figured out anything. That’s the same thing they said about Henry’s father, even though the theory that it was Bae had been around since season 1. This show has gotten so predictable it’s ridiculous. Don’t get me started with this whole Tamara-Owen mess. It probably would have been better to drag out Cora until the finale then to introduce this hamfisted mess right at the end. I hope the show is able to rebound next year.

    • xaverie says:

      They should have had Cora actually wreak havoc on Storybrooke rather than have her chill at Regina’s place and the library with her boyfriend before making the play for Rumple’s dagger.

      • Christina says:

        THIS. Amen. At least we could have gotten a few more episodes seemingly centered on the main characters.

      • Louise says:

        They should have done so much more with Cora in general. She was such a great character and they build up her trying to get to Storybrooke really well, but once she and Hook arrived there their stories lost so much steam, which I really don’t understand.

      • I agree. I didn’t like Cora, not in any timeline, but I think her character should have been put to use better – what was with all the whishy-whashy magic? Why not display it in a big big way to let everyone know she’s back, together with her equally evil daughter, to get what’s hers?
        Sure, there’s Henry and all … but I think we all agree that they way Regina sees her relationship with him is really unhealthy and not quite the one of a loving mum.

    • goldfish says:

      Cora >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tama-Owen.

      Season 2 is (to put it lightly) underwhelming. Maybe my expectations were too high? Maybe this show is and always will be a great idea with a mediocre execution…

  8. Canard says:

    The only thing I really want to know is the nature of that game changer between Bael and Rump.

    • Len1 says:

      I am thinking Rump paying the price of magic, coz he never does or holds accountable to his actions – and i can see something happening to Neal in relation to Henry, due to Rump trying to hurt or send Henry off to somewhere and Neal getting in the way.

    • Gail says:

      Perhaps Bae gets Rumple’s magic and becomes the new Dark One. Or perhaps Bae does something similar to what Rumple did to Bae, putting something ahead of his son. Rumple chose magic and power over Bae, Bae chooses ??? over Henry.

    • Doc says:

      I think the nature of change in Rumple and Baelfire’s relationship will stem out of Neal’s finding out about HOW his mother Milah died and WHO was responsible. Emma is already aware of the story through Hook in Tallahassee,…which also brings about another long time question that the writers evaded at Paley Fest, b/c none of them could remember at that moment what made the final cut.

      JMo had brought up the question as to Hook’s tattoo they showed us, on his inside rt, forearm, of a Dagger through a heart with the name Milah on it. But there are screen caps of that tattoo that show it was Rumple’s Dagger with Rumple’s name on it. Which would suggest that Hook already knew of the Dagger when he returned from Neverland with his crew and apparently alone breached Regina’s castle to get to Belle’s prison cell.

      So Hook found out about the Dagger while in Neverland, but, through whom? Mr.Smee seemed to know all about Rumple’s story as he reveals to Rumple in the bar while trying to strike a deal with Rumple for immortality. So it could have been him. But, Baelfire also seemed to know Hook well enough to have learned how to sail the Jolly Roger. Again, a meeting that would have taken place in Neverland while Bealfire was 14yrs old.

      According to the timeline, Bealfire was already in Neverland before Rumple killed Milah and took Hook’s hand. It also appears that Hook and Milah were together at least 8 to 10 years (or more) before they returned to Rumple’s harbor, as Bealfire appeared to be 4 to 6 yrs old in the bar scene where Hook and Bae’ first met. Rumple became the Dark One on Baelfire’s 14th birthday as Hordor and his men came to take him to war. Shortly after Bae goes through the green vortex portal and now apparently goes to Neverland and NOT to the Land without Magic, first, at 14 yrs of age and stays that age until SOMEHOW! finding his way to our Land without Magic.

      This puts Bae in Neverland 8 to 10 years (or more) *our time* before Milah is killed and Hook’s hand is taken. It is then that Hook welcomes Mr.Smee aboard and throws the bean into the open waters and THEN sails into the vortex of water to Neverland for the next 300 or so years.

      If Hook met Baelfire in Neverland,… and grew a tight enough relationship to show him how to sail the Jolly Roger, wouldn’t it be safe to assume that Hook knew who Baelfire was?… or that Baelfire was close enough to Hook to tell him that he was Rumple’s son? And it was Baelfire who told Hook about the Dagger and how Rumple could be killed?……. Or Baelfire feared for his own life from Hook that he kept who he was quiet for his own sake?….That would mean it wasn’t Bae who told Hook about the Dagger and was probably Mr.Smee?…

      In any case, Hook will not recognize Neal as the 14 year old Baelfire as that is the only way Hook knew Bae’,…as a kid.

      “oh sh*t!”….. sorry Oncers! lol! THIS IS WHAT HIATUS CAN DO TO YOU!!!!….

      • Canard says:

        I’m not sure if Bael would have spilled the bean about the dagger being the only way to kill Rumpel. I mean, I get Bael would be upset with his papa for abandoning him, but so much upset that he would endangered him by telling someone about the dagger? I don’t know.

      • CJ says:

        So you have concluded that the big reveal at this season finale will be that Baelfire is really Peter Pan?!

        • Doc says:

          No,… even though the writers have pretty much told us he isn’t from the above YouTube clip, as well as Tamara not being anyone other than a regular human with a desire for magic, I didn’t and still hope they don’t go there and that PP is someone else!
          I mean, why rush it!?… Take the whole summer hiatus and write something that will blow us away!
          I can see Baelfire becoming one of the lost boys,..IF WE REALLY NEED TO GO THERE!….but I just couldn’t find the need for Bae/Neal to be apart of that storyline at all!.. And why does Baelfire need to be another FTL character? He’s already Baelfire!…. oh well. They seem to be excited about the last episodes, so I’ll have to go with that til we see them! Fingers crossed, cuz I love this show. We don’t get many like this!

          • Shannon says:

            Completely agree. Why make him another character when he is already the pentualment character that is Baefire. there is no reason to make him another character when he already is a FTL character.

    • EmC says:

      probably that Bae is the one who will undo Rumple and not Henry…. but that would be too predictable…

    • Name That Tune says:

      If Bae is gone &Belle likes his evil ways he has nothing holding him back. No reason to redeem himself. Unless, loves true kiss with Belle occurs.

  9. lyn says:

    All I can say is they’d better have a logical explanation of how Tamara knew that Neal was key to finding the magic in Storybrooke. She followed August to NYC, but why would she latch onto Neal? He didn’t even know about Storybrooke. What gave her prior knowledge?

  10. piesmama says:

    I’m SO done with this tired Belle plotline, her entire character is just bossy and insufferable! Time for her to GO!

  11. Shannon says:

    Cora and Rumple would never have been a good couple. yes Cora Loved rumple but she loved him for his power, magic and the darkness inside him. belle on the other hand loves Rumple for who he was and the good in him. She wants him to see that he does not need magic to be a good man and a strong man. Rumple achille’s heel is magic as it has become his crutch because he does not want to go back to being normal etc and he has accustom to magic so much he cannot in his mind live without it. Hence the reason he brought magic to storybrooke. I still think Kurt Flynn was killed because the heart that was buried by the bridge that they tried to pass of as Katherine’s heart was a human heart and not magical. We know it is not Katherine’s and we know it is not one of the characters because their hearts when taken glow red. hence the logical conclusion it is Kurt. Next Tamara there is more than she is telling. She found the Dragon in Phuket then probably followed August back tot he states. There is more to her than we know already. When she went to see the dragon she had a picture and no means of money to be seen. then we see her in a bar and she is flashing money that happens to be the exact amount August’s needs how would she know that? She knew he would take it, so how did she know that as well? We know other magical beings have come to our world before Storybrooke and maybe some afterward by what the dragon told tamara. Tamara is using owen/Greg, but how did they find each other? She is using Neal.. Why not attach to August? I think August knew who she was already and would suspect and not be fooled by Tamara because they had encountered each other in Phuket. Tamara might use regina’s anger to her advantage.

    • xaverie says:

      Yikes. I love how the one who accepted Rumple is the one who “wouldn’t work” and the one who is brainwashed and wants to change him the one that will.

      • Cass says:

        Cora didn’t “accept Rumple.” She was attracted to–wanted–his power and his rage. Belle fell in love with BOTH sides of Rumple, the Dark One and the kind, lonely human he used to be. She doesn’t want to change him–she wants him to free himself, to be the best version of himself. Which happens not to be the one that goes around killing people all the time.

        • xav says:

          Except they were actually in love. So Belle doesn’t want to change him, she just wants him to change everything about himself.

    • lyn says:

      August and Tamara encountered each other in Hong Kong, not Phuket.

  12. Len1 says:

    Looking forward to it all… i like Emma’s journey… this season has been about her being and believing she can be a mum and settling into that and with her family. and havign soem closure on her past in terms of what happened 10 yrs back. Looking forward to more Hook and his backstory, and hopefully some Hook/Emma scenes… he is the only man who has been able to go beyond her wall and question her, and read her well etc.

  13. gus says:

    Am I the only one who just hates the way they are treating Regina and Henry’s relationship?

    • Len1 says:

      Here’s hoping that Regina finally lets go off her anger and starts to make better choices, once she starts getting on better with Henry, she will make a progression into be better, then instead of going on a warpath as usual… i am hoping season 3 will be more Regina/Henry being mother/son as well, and Regina meeting her future love, she needs to better her relation with Henry and he needs to see that as well, no doubt Henry loves her despite who and whatever she does, his love hasnt changed!

    • kath says:

      What I don’t like about the treatment is that Regina is still All About Herself and treating Henry as if he were her toy and possession, and yet we’re supposed to feel sorry for her because now Henry has an alternative. If Regina can’t stay unselfish for long enough to get Henry’s love, she’s not good for him.

      • lyn says:

        Thank you, kath. ITA. Henry is not a person to Regina. He is a possession that she acquired so she would have some sort of novelty in her life. Otherwise her days were all the same. When Henry started connecting the dots, she put him into therapy with Archie.

        • xav says:

          I would argue that the ones who treat him like a possession are the people that took him away from his mother and treat him as a thing that can be ‘repossessed’ after being given away.

          • lyn says:

            There is a big difference between rescued and repossessed. Saving him from a monster who killed Snow’s father, killed her own father, killed her love slave etc. is not treating him as a possession. She’s not his mother. Her first consideration is always her agenda. A mother doesn’t subject her child to psychoanalysis to hide her secrets.

          • K says:

            No one “took” him from Regina. He ran away from her to the Emma (and later Charming) many times. Henry is a human who makes decisions (arguably a lot more decisions than he should be allowed to, considering that he is an eleven-year-old human).

          • Shannon says:

            Okay this is way way out there and I am probably completely wrong, but I do not think he is Peter Pan yet we have not been officially notified he is not. I was thinking he could be part of the lost boys and then I was thinking he could be part of the Darling Family (I know way out there, but could be a thought). I am assuming Neverland was his last stop before coming to our world, so it had to be something.
            I am thinking Tamara (because not everyone in neverland is magical or has magical abilities (i.e. Hook etc..)
            has been to neverland before and maybe one of Peter’s enemies such as Captain N. sorry forgot how to spell the name..

          • xav says:

            @K Actually, yes they did take him from her. First of all, we actually see Emma kidnap him more than once. Also, they didn’t return the child to his mother.

          • xav says:

            @lyn Do you watch the show? Because her first consideration is usually Henry. It’s not like the Charmings aren’t murderers either. And his paternal family that he’s chillaxing with are murderers, rapists and abusers too so…

      • xav says:

        Unselfish how? Other than supplicating herself to the Charmings, letting Henry go with them even though he’s her son and she doesn’t need to? As opposed to the people who discuss murdering her in front of him, kidnapped him, etc?

  14. gdv says:

    OK, I’m starting to think that the theory that Hook is Peter Pan, not Bae, might be the right one. However, it still doesn’t make sense that Bae would’ve come across Hook in Neverland, since Hook had already hooked up with (see what I did there?) Milah before Bae went through the portal. Then Bae would’ve come across his mother in Neverland, too. Unless Bae ended up in Neverland in a previous time, possibly when Hook was still a young boy (Peter Pan) and before he became a pirate and went to FTL. But geez, that’s a helluva timeline to execute. I’m hoping the show pulls it together for these last few episodes. I refuse to give up on the show before they get to the Little Mermaid, who I’m hoping will be one of the mermaids in Neverland next season.

    • Len1 says:

      Pretty sure Bae went through the portal after Milah died???, so it seems Hook would already be in Neverland. Bae to me is a lost boy! I will be surprised
      not be surprised at the same time if Hook is Peter Pan but as a child, then turned Killian the pirate Jones, and we know how he got to Hook

      • AL says:

        No, Bae went through the portal before Milah died, but after she ran off with Hook. Rumple came across Hook and Milah while he was looking for a magic bean that would allow him to go after Bae. That’s when Rumple killed Milah and cut off Hook’s hand. Hook went to Neverland shortly after that.

        • Name That Tune says:

          Which makes it very likely that Hook met Bae before Hook I met Milah. Makes for an interesting twist.

          • Cass says:

            I don’t see how that’s possible. Like at all. Bae was six or so when Milah ran off with Hook. He was almost 15 when he fell through the vortex. Unless time travel was involved.

      • Name That Tune says:

        The lost boy theory doesn’t fit with what they have told us. It’s more likely that Neverland wasn’t Neal’s first stop. Where that was isn’t so obvious, but it is a place without magic. And some place that Hook has been to by ship.
        Sherwood Forest is a God possibility. But isn’t Mulan & a dragon shown in the previews?

        • Shannon says:

          Neal stated our world was not the 1st world he came to, so he could have been to many different realms which is odd. The blue fairy when given the bean told BaE/Neal that the bean would take him to a place that does not have magic and where Rumple could start over. That said it would be our world that he would have landed on and if he went to different worlds/realms had did he get from one to the other since he did not have magic or did he? He had to have other means to get to places since the bean was a one way ticket. Interesting thoughts.

          • Okay, so, assuming we’ll find out how Bae travelled around, wouldn’t it make sense that he got to Neverland, a land where no child grows, met Hook, who got there after him and after Milah died in search of Rumpel? Remember the end of Peter Pan btw?

          • M says:

            But in the episode before the Winter break, Emma and Snow needed a golden compass to stay on track for their path home. Bae never had anything like that. So maybe his path was diverted into Neverland rather than our world.

    • Name That Tune says:

      Remember Bae knows how to pilot Hook’s ship. Where in these theories did he learn that?

  15. Josh says:

    I heard one theory that the event that changes the Rump/Bae relationship forever is that Bae stays in Neverland. It doesn’t sound too crazy since this season we had Emma and Snow in a different land. Next season, we may have at least one character in Neverland (maybe more, I’m hoping Henry stays there too). Bae could stay there willingly or unwillingly (gets trapped there).

    My other thought is that the “game-changer” is that Bae helped Hook in some significant way. Hook may have told him that Rump killed his mother and Rump did abandon him so maybe Bae did something significant to help Hook. Maybe was a Lost Boy who joined the Pirates?

  16. Spencer says:

    The problem with the second season, as people kinda said earlier, is that none of the villains are really all that villainous. Which I guess is good, to show that we’re all human and we all have light and dark sides, but c’mon! Regina was so bad*** in the first season, and they could’ve done SUCH amazing things with Cora….

    • Tarc says:

      Actually, they can’t – and shouldn’t. If regina was so one-dimensional, she’d just kill everyone in a few minutes and poof goes the show.

  17. Name That Tune says:

    I’ve watched the first 2 seasons in a nonstop marathon. Even if it seems like the show has meandered, almost everything we saw this season was the result of things we heard about in season 1. Very likely the foundation for season 3 has a been put before us but the dots are not connected yet.
    I think Charming hopes the beans leaf back to FTL but that doesn’t necessarily make it so. I’m curious what we’re leading up to.

  18. “Second Star to the Right” is such an obvious spoiler about Neal/Bae – something I’ve felt would happen for some time, since otherwise Neal knowing Hook and his ship wouldn’t make much sense. So we get a Peter … does that mean Emma is his Wendy?

  19. Rumbelle forever says:

    Could the game changer be that Neal is actually Hook and Milah’s son, not Rumple and Milah’s?

    • Doc says:

      Milah confessed to Rumple that the first time she and Hook met was in the bar scene where little Bealfire walks into the bar already about 4 to 6 years old,… so that wouldn’t work….. But now Bae’ has gone to Neverland BEFORE our world, which is just as ridiculous, so you never know,…. You could still be right! LOL!

      • lyn says:

        Not to mention that Hook and Milah both have blue eyes and Neal’s/Bael’s are very dark brown. They’ve been sloppy with eye color for August/Pinocchio. I hope they pay more attention with future casting.

      • Gail says:

        Bae was going from Fairyland to a land without magic. It was assume that was our world but apparently was not. It was another land without magic. Neverland has fairies. Its not a land without magic. Therefore it shouldn’t be where Bae went. He could have gone to London about 1900 and met Wendy and Peter Pan and then went to Neverland.

        • Doc says:

          But isn’t London apart of our world?… a world without magic? Just Like Phuket?

          Actually, I believe we’re watching the writers scramble for a switch in the original storyline, having to do with Baelfire and Neverland, and how do we make this fit!? Originally the writers said that they could not get the rights to Peter Pan. So there was never a storyline FOR that franchise.

          The original storyline was pretty clear from the pilot onward through the first season. Baelfire went through the green vortex at age 14 and it brought him here to our, world without magic, in 1983, instantly, at the age of 14. Everything in the first season pretty much pointed that out clearly. Including the Blue Fairy when she gave the bean to Baelfire. Mr.Gold says it to August when August trys to use the Dagger against him, Gold says “My son would never try to use me. And he would know that this knife cannot harness any magic in this world,….because there is no magic in this world. THAT’S WHY HE CHOSE THIS PLACE.” Gold also says, earlier in that same scene; “Ever since you left,…Ever since you crossed the BARRIERS OF TIME AND SPACE,… which suggests that Bealfire/Neal did come here first, as of the episode, “The Return”

          Mr.Gold, again refers to our “world without magic” as the only place Baelfire went in his confession to Belle in the “Crockodile”. Gold: “Baelfire is his name. After he left, I dedicated myself to finding him. I went down many, many paths. Until I found a curse that could take me to the LAND WHERE HE’D ESCAPED.” Belle: “Here” Gold: “Now I find myself in this little town.”

          Somewhere during the summer hiatus, they either aquired the rights to Peter Pan and it’s characters or!…. figured out a way to get around the legal loopholes, changing names(Killian Jones) and storylines around to meet the legal requirements. In any event, the original storyline had still suggested that Baelfire came to our world without magic as his ONLY destination and TIME, as of the Crockodile”

          After the Crockodile, things began to change. “We now have the rights,…So now, how do we makeit fit!??….
          1) How did the Magic beans grow so fast when it took the Giants 100 years to harvest?
          2) Bae’ hated and still hates magic. Why would he go to Neverland? The age thing doesn’t work, it was just convenient for the writers. Stepping through a portal transports you instantly to whatever year you’re headed too. You don’t age in transport. So it’s not the old “I would have been a couple hundred years old, thing,..because he wouldn’t have been had he traveled AS RUMPLE SAID HE DID…. Through time and Space. If that were the case,…everyone in Storybrooke would have aged a couple hundred years in transport with the curse. But they didn’t because you don’t! Whatever!
          3) If Baelfire spent 300 years in Neverland then that’s where the Dark Curse should have gone! To Neverland. But that doesn’t work as Neverland is a magical land and all Rumple would have needed was a ride from Jefferson and his Hat, to take him to exactly where Baelfire was. Really? Bae was in Neverland for 300 years and Rumple didn’t know it… C’mon!…. Whatever!
          4) Somehow Baelfire still manages to find our world without magic,…HOW! On the same bean that took him to Neverland, when it was supposed to take him to a Land w/o Magic?, please!
          5) Both the Blue Fairy AND Rumple had to independently choose OUR world w/o Magic and the year 1983. HOW!? If Baelfire’s arrival into our world is just some random event, as most of you would like to believe,… then HOW and WHEN is the Blue Fairy supposed to send the “Savior” BEFORE Regina launches the Dark Curse? which if she doesn’t, then Regina takes the infant Emma and repeats her infancy in Storybrooke forever, and no one is saved,…as was intended by Regina and the Dark Curse.
          6) But Rumple and the Blue Fairy, both, independently from eachother, chose OUR world and 1983 for a reason! Because that’s where Baelfire went initially and only!….

          Til now, cause they have the rights now and have to make it work somehow!… So canon and an even further push of disbelief will be required to make it through the rest of this season.

          I’m a ONCER,…and willing,…still. BUT PLEASE DON’T TURN THIS GENIUS IDEA INTO “LOST”… I couldn’t endure another heartbreak like that again!….

          • Shannon says:

            Thanks for elaborating explaining yourself so well as you caught the same points I have from the 1st season and this season, but did a much better job of pointing it out. I agree with everything that you have said and that bae came here and when he came here he could have traveled to another realm for a short period, but all in all he came her because we are a land w/o magic and that is where bae chose and the blue fairy stated where he was going was a land w/o magic. Rumple had to find a curse big and powerful enough and someone else to enact it to get her to find him.

  20. Cass says:

    I love Rumple and I love Rumbelle…but man am I getting tired of Belle being abused to advance Rumple’s story. I’m sure she’ll never get a chance to complain about this mind-rape either, just as she didn’t about being locked up for thirty-some years.

  21. Danielle says:

    Good God. All I hear from some of you people is whine, whine, bitch, bitch. If you think you can do a better job then by all means write a letter to the creators. If you’re a fan shut your mouthes with the critiques for once and sit back and watch. Wait until the end of the season to be done with this show at the very least and stop with your 8-year-old-temper-tantrum-throwingMommmmyyy-the-writers-aren’t-doing-what-I-wan

  22. Danielle says:

    T-them-too-with-my-favorite-characters whining. Sorry, hit the post button too soon. For the most part you guys have valid points and know how to not whine so brava to you.

  23. Katie says:

    Is there any way Neal could be Peter Pan’s “shadow?” LIke, maybe not in a literal sense (in that “shadow” could refer to a second in command, or something else).

  24. Katie Shell says:

    I’m wondering if that “there’s no place like home” heading is supposed to be a hint.

  25. Innocence41285 says:

    I am thinking Bae went to our world grew up a bit and ended up in wonderland as an adult. Creators have said Bae is not peter pan and a lost boy would be to easy but what about Starkey……the member of hooks crew who was known for his manners. If Hook knew about Bae from his mother……it would have made sense for Hook to cuddle up close to him in hopes of finding out Rumples weakness.

  26. monieet says:

    Regina is really Rumple’s daughter. Making her Henry’s aunt, and Bey’s sister.

  27. Pens says:

    I totally watch this show for Hook. Hope they keep him.

  28. Cory says:

    I might be the

  29. Angela says:

    Slightly confused, Didnt Cora freeze Neverland when the curse hit? Because when Hook began complaining on waiting for his revenge Cora said it was ok because he would be frozen, so if Baelfire went there as a child it isnt unresonable and then somehow made it to the real world and began ageing from 14 again? And when Regina put the curse on storybrook didnt she freeze time (sorta) within the town? Becasue in the episode where we see the flashbacks with Owen and his dad it looks as if the day repeats itself each day. That explains the scene were she passes Japedo hanging the same sign day after day. So perhaps time was frozen in those two lands due to magic until Henry came along or Emma started changing it? That also explains why the clock in town started to work when Emma arrived. Perhaps Bae was in neverland, and We also saw how Hook couldnt destroy the scarf because Milah made it even though it would hurt Rumple. Perhaps he knew Bae as Rumple’s son. Bae would be half of Milah, and maybe cared for him due to it enough to teach him how to steer the jolly roger

    • Doc says:

      @Angela
      No,… Cora froze a corner of Fairytale Land which covered the “safe haven island” and protected everything and everyone under it, from the Dark Curse (almost). We’ve been shown that a certain length of undetermined time was repeating in Storybrooke and the writers have confirmed that it was not the same day,… but, “similar” days (that’s the term they used). However, they never clarified the amount of time that was repeating, as a certain amount of time has to repeat to keep the “frozen in time” statement true.

      The amount of time that was repeating in Storybrooke had to be a solid year, Fall to Fall, as that was the only way Henry could have received the education he has thus far, and fits with the revelation in “Welcome to Storybrooke” that it came into existence in the Fall, (Sunday, Oct 23, 1983). So it was the Fall of 1983 to the Fall of 1984 that Storybrooke repeated for 28 years, until Emma arrived on her 28th birthday (Oct. 23, 2011) the date of the Pilot episode, and started time in Storybrooke on her 2nd day there.

      However, lol… since we now know that it was Regina and not the Dark Curse who was responsible for the false memories, false personalities, and false living situations of the FTL characters in Storybrooke, we can safely assume that those protected by Cora’s bubble, who were meant to come to Storybrooke, were saved from experiencing THEIR false memories, personalities and living situations because the Dark Curse did not touch them. So they remained their true selves during the 28 years of the Curse.

      However,… ;) It has never been clarified how those 28 years passed under Cora’s bubble of protection. Did these people do the same as those in Storybrooke?…Did they repeat the same year for 28 years, meaning, did they walk around reliving similar days for 365 days then revert to day 1 to do it all over again as those in Storybrooke?….. or were they truly frozen in a stand still position for 28 years!???…. Cora says “frozen” in time to Hook. But,… The people in Storybrooke were also “frozen” in time as well,..just not stand still frozen, they experienced a repeat of a certain length of time, and then repeated it….OR!,.. Because the Dark Curse never completely touched them, did they wander about under that bubble, aware of their situation, but not knowing why, for 28 years until Emma arrives in Storybrooke and starts time, freeing all from Cora’s bubble including Cora and Hook as well as Philip and Mulan to continue their search for Aurora, as we see in the season 2 premier? Personally, after hearing Cora’s statement, I would have to go with “Stand Still Frozen” for 28 years. Otherwise she would have had to listen to Hook complaining for 28 years til they were freed by Emma….lol.

      Anyhow,… the unreasonable discrepancy of time I think you’re referring to, Angela, is the mistake in dialogue by the writers when Neal says to Emma that this world wasn’t his first stop after he left FTL (Enchanted Forest) whatever,… otherwise he would be a couple hundred years old…(that’s what they get for listening to the stupid Fandom),… Baelfire falls through the portal at 14+yrs old and travels through time AND space, as Mr.Gold said he did, and lands in our “World w/o Magic”…*his first stop* after leaving FTL, and finds himself in 1900 London, England, still at 14+ and not a couple hundred years old!!!. About 7 months later he sacrifices himself for the Darlings and is taken to Neverland by the shadow. Sometime during those 7 months while Baelfire was in England, Rumple kills Milah and takes Hook’s hand, back in FTL. Hook then welcomes Mr Smee aboard,… takes his Magic Bean and relm jumps to Neverland where they run into Baelfire just as he’s dropped by the shadow into the ocean.

      Until we learn more about how time works in Neverland, we cannot know for sure how long Hook and Baelfire were in Neverland, (our time)…. But at some point Baelfire AND Hook leave Neverland,…or should I say appear in two different worlds that are not Neverland, just days before the Dark Curse is launched by Regina, back in FairyTale Land (Enchanted Forest). Hook and crew appear in FTL as Baelfire finds his way “BACK” to our World w/o Magic,…STILL at 14+yrs old (presumably) as he was in Neverland this entire time. He finds his way “SOMEHOW!” to Our world 1983, as that is where Rumplestiltskin aimed the Dark Curse, AAAND… where the Blue Fairy, independently, and apart from Rumple, chose to send the Savior, BEFORE it could be launched,..Our world, 1983. They both couldn’t have been wrong!…and weren’t. Which tells us Bae has been here since 1983, and is 42 or 43yrs old.

      But I agree with you about Hook and his feelings for Baelfire through his love for Milah, which he turned his back on when he gave him to the Lost Boys,…but then found resolve when he returned to help find Henry in honor of His love for Milah and her son Baelfire,..agreed.

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