Supernatural Producer on Henry Winchester's Big Reveal and What's Next for Dean and Sam

As Time Goes ByOn Wednesday night’s Supernatural, Dean and Sam’s paternal grandfather Henry revealed that his son John and grandsons were supposed to be… book nerds!

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While mom Mary was from a clan of hunters, the Winchesters come from a line of Men of Letters, who are keepers of knowledge that they share with a select group of hunters. Cupid brought the brawn and the brains together by uniting Mary and John — but after traveling to 2013 and dying in the arms of Dean and Sam, Henry never made it back to his time, leading his son to believe his father abandoned him. And so John never fulfilled his legacy and instead became “a hunter through necessity,” says executive producer Bob Singer.

Now Dean and Sam are left with Henry’s “key,” aka a box that holds scrolls and all sorts of valuable information. At the episode’s end, they make plans to lock it away in the safest place on Earth, and we’ll see that location next Wednesday.

“It’s a really stunning set,” describes Singer. “It’s full of mysteries. It’ll become kind of a home base for the boys. We’re really excited about it. After eight years of never having a home base, this will be home base for quite some time.

“When they go in there, it’s pristine,” he continues. “It’s like been hermetically sealed and everything [is] just as it was. It’s perfectly neat. The only sign that someone had to get out of there in a hurry [is] a chess game that was uncompleted and an ashtray full of cigarettes.”

But that’s not all that the brothers’ new digs contain. The new locale is John’s journal multiplied “by a hundred,” adds the EP. “It’s got every source of information that would be interesting to the boys.” That makes bookish Sam incredibly delighted, while his bro has other priorities. The younger Winchester “is totally immersed in the place, and Dean’s just happy to have his own room. He’s put posters up. He says to Sam, ‘If you want to do this geek stuff, that’s fine with me. But I’m just digging this.’”

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However, don’t expect the Winchesters to invite all their hunter pals to their new hub for a get-together. “This all plays into the tablet business,” reveals Singer. “The information that’s contained in this Men of Letters bunker, if it fell into the wrong hands, it would be quite a powerful weapon against the boys. So it has to remain a secret and guarded closely. As we go down the line the rest of this year, and hopefully next year, [those] dramatic turns will take place because this is an important place.”

Other tidbits from Singer:

• That phone conversation between Dean and Benny in “Torn and Frayed” is not the last we’ll see of the vampire. “He was really fighting the good fight of trying not give into his bloodlust and Dean having to cut the ties is a hard thing for him. We’ll explore that idea of what he’s going through.”

• On Sam’s lady love, Amelia: “We think she’s a really valuable character. We liked her a lot, and it certainly creates a big complication in Sam’s life. We’re just doing the end of the season now in the room, and we’ve talked about bringing her back, but we don’t have anything specific.”

•  There will be no more Sam or Dean flashbacks this season.

• For now, the show will not introduce any more tablets.

Supernatural fans, what did you think of the Winchester family twist? Are you excited for Dean and Sam’s new home base? Hit the comments to weigh in!

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Michelle says:

    I loved it. Cried when Henry died. But about Amy? Can they just not? That whole storyline was BORING as all hell. Pun intended.

  2. trooperwife says:

    Did anyone else go ” He did NOT just bust out BABYS window” and then wonder how it got fixed so fast?

    • debbab says:

      It was a continuity issue I guess. Dean has driven Baby with plastic on the rear window in past episodes when it got smashed. Also the scene where Sam is captured must be on the cutting room floor. Guess they had to squeeze much into 42 minutes.

  3. Jessie says:

    For the love of god don’t bring Amelia back, and address Sam’s OOC behavior. It is not believable that he would not look for Dean or help Kevin. That story-line taints the whole season.

    • Chris says:

      I agree. I’ve enjoyed pretty much everything about this season except Amelia storyline and the fact that Sam.behaved so out of character, I was really hoping for more of an explanation.

    • Ron says:

      shut up already. Sam had reason and good reason so let it go and move on. People like u is what has them fighting all the time because believe it or no the writers read fandom and they know that thats what ticks fans off and keeps them interested. so do us a favor and sthu. PLEASE

      • Linda says:

        *laughs @ you*

      • Jude says:

        Yayyyyyyyyyy, Ron!!!!! Right there with you, buddy. A real fan takes this great show at face value and enjoys each and every episode as it appears. All this friggin’ criticism and infighting turns me off…..NOT to the show…..but to the pettiness and small-mindedness of fairweather fans.

        Me???? I loved the show tonight just like I always do. Sam did his “miserable, lonely hunter routine” when Dean went to Hell……….I think some of us recall that time in his life and how well that went …. Cut him some slack!

        • Totally agree about all the infighting/fairweather fans. And about Sam. Some people will just never agree.

          • Ruby says:


          • Zayne says:

            Clarify something for me please. I have watched the show since middle of season 2 and love almost every minute of it. However, I thought Amelia was insufferable and impossible for me to connect with. I’m thrilled she’s gone and really don’t want her to show up again. I find her anything but a valuable character. I also found it completely OOC that Sam would give up looking for Dean. I still watch the show every week though and have really loved the last 2-3 since Amelia went away. Does that make me a “fairweather fan”?

            I think your clear disdain for so-called fairweather fans is just as toxic to the fan community as you think people that voice their displeasure with plotlines are. We don’t have to like everything this show puts on our screen. It’s our rights as fans.

            Your ‘Dean going to hell” reference is not the same. Sam kept looking for him. He was sleeping with Ruby and drinking demon blood but he kept an eye and ear out for Dean the whole time.and was thrilled to see him, not seemingly disappointed and bitter like he was this time.

        • LJ says:

          So a real fan is a mindless drone who loves everything no matter what crap they serve up. Good to know.

        • LJ says:

          So long as Sam never owns up to his flaws and mistakes and the incredibly awful way he treats Dean more often than not, a good chunk of the fandom will hate him and consider the writers and producers disingenuous liars for claiming the show is about the brotherly bond because the bond doesn’t exist if it only flows one way. Same goes for their claims that the show has two leads, if they continue to make Sam the center of the mytharc and the only guy who gets to save the world.

          I am also really disheartened that they basically tossed out all of Dean’s growth post-purgatory to make him all about Sam again to the point where he ditched Benny because of Sam’s childish ultimatum and now seems so consumed with Sam that he hasn’t given Cas a thought. If it’s OK for Sam to have dreams of getting out of the life, why is it not OK for Dean to have other friends who might actually want to stick around instead of just being there out of obligation the way Sam is.

          • kay66 says:

            Sam has said he’s sorry for not looking for Dean and dropping the ball on Kevin, I don’t think he has to apologize for being wary of trusting a vampire because that’s a lesson that Dean specifically pushed onto him ‘monsters can’t be trusted’ – don’t get me wrong, i’m the world’s biggest Dean fan, but the brothers have fundamental issues of communication and the writers chose to open this season with a rift – that seems to have been mostly resolved, mid season, Sam and Dean are now on the same page.
            Now, Sam never asked Dean to ditch Benny, but Dean did that on his own (Sam doesn’t even know about the breakup phone call) Dean is self-sacrificing, that’s engrained in his being,
            Both brothers are thrilled to have Castiel back, I’m glad we are at a point where both Sam and Dean forgave Cas for breaking Sam’s wall. I don’t think that’s not giving Cas a thought, considering how worried they were at his odd behavior, and killing Samadriel, I’m really happy to hear that both Benny with be back, and Cas becomes important to the mytharc.

          • Brigitte says:

            I have to admit I am confused. There was the year that Sam was in Hell and Dean was living his life happily with Lisa and Ben until Sam comes back and no one seems to bothered by the fact that Dean wasn’t looking for him. When Dean went to Purgatory, he vanished, how was Sam supposed to look for him without any clues to where he went? I truely am neutral about the whole thing, but don’t understand why this is such an ongoing deal about Sam.

          • Davi says:

            Brigitte: The difference between Sam’s year off and Dean’s is that with Dean, we had him telling us that he looked anyway, despite the promise Sam made him give. That and Dean didn’t have another person missing like Kevin was for Sam. His only ‘loose’ end was Sam, and he was still keeping in contact with Bobby, so he should have known if something huge came up even though Bobby hid Sam’s return from him.

            Whereas this year’s writing team told us flat out that Sam didn’t ever try to look for Dean or Kevin with the flimsy excuse of everybody they knew being dead. Only there was still Garth, still Bobby’s back-up notes, still the Campbell family library: all of which Sam says he didn’t bother checking.

            So yes, people get upset about a character being rewritten in so unplausible of a manner. It likely would be a different story if they’d taken twelve seconds of dialogue time to have Sam say how he searched and didn’t find anything. It wouldn’t have made his actions quite as out of character as they were.

          • LJ says:

            @kay66 Sam apologized to Kevin but he has never apologized to Dean for not looking for him in purgatory. He’s never even indicated that he had any regrets about it or that he cares how deeply that obvious hurt Dean. Not one hint of any remorse on his part. If I am wrong, please provide the dialogue where this happened.

            Sam very specifically gave Dean an ultimatum regarding Benny when he said that where they went next depended on whether Dean was done with Benny. Whether Dean acted on it or cut Benny off for his own reasons, is irrelevant. The point is that Sam, as he has many times before, issued an ultimatum when Dean was behaving in a way Sam did not like. He does it all the time with his threats to leave. It’s disgustingly manipulative, especially knowing Dean’s abandonment issues.

            And what is even more disgusting is the writers constantly forcing Dean to bow down to Sam’s will and apologize for his admittedly bad behavior, while Sam never acknowledges his the many ways in which he is responsible for the problems in their relationships.

        • debbab says:

          I agree. Sam losing Dean at end of season 7 really threw him into a deep dark place. He did not react the way Dean wanted, but hell he was lost. He repaired the Imapala not changing a thing, a drove until he hit a dog. Amelia was his Dean for a year. Wish fairweather fans would leave him alone for not looking for Dean, Let the writers ease us back as all seems ok with the boys for now. Siblings squabble-they still have each others’back and Dean tells Henry he will do anything to save Sam- so if Dean is ok with Sam why not fandom? Enjoy the show for what it is. Have been with it since season 1. None of the canon has been terribly negated with the addition of Henry’s information, in fact it explains alot. Many story lines possible. Kudos to the crew and writers. I did check my closet doors-noone seems to be falling out of them.
          Blood sidgels bring you to kin? Who else is left from the WInchesters? Time travel back for the boys? Henry gone too soon. Abadon not the last of her kind? Cas- we need you.

        • abbie says:

          i was not going to comment but after reading your comment I have to comment. I agree with you 150 percent which is mathematical incorrect as they are only 100percent. But the point is a true fan u and me take the show at point value and enjoys the show and enjoy each episode as it each. But I hate when I read a comments where fans are dishing show and calling certains season weak, just enjoy the show and stop complaining

          • debbab says:

            Yes! The repeat themes are common in good literature. It is nice to know that fans expect Deanisms or Sam to huff at certain comments and look out the window! This is called consistency in character personalities. Writers are keeping within the characters and rules of good writing. I forgive them their sometimes annoyances but seriously, true fans look forward to catching repeat threads, phrases, or plot lines. Watch and enjoy. We are riding shot gun and those who do not like every nuance or plot twist can certainly voice an opinion, but haters-stop watching and shut your cake hole. SPN family members can squabble amongst ourselves, but haters…let it go.Let us enjoy the ride that is SPN for as long as the CW allows new ones. Go SPN family.

      • LJ says:

        Oh you mean the way Sam let it go when he hung up on Dean, then refused to listen about Benny and then issued yet another threat if Dean didn’t fall into line? Is that the way we should let it go?

      • kay66 says:

        I think you can be a fan and question some of the writer’s choices, thank god on spn it’s never the quality of production or the acting! You can be a fan and not like what happens to charaters or the mythology. However, if you don’t like it to the degree where you stop watching, I don’t see the point of getting online to say how much you hate it! – there are fans of the show who engage in fandom (the whole world of meta and fic and etc.) and there are fans of the show content to simply watch and buy the DVDs. I think it’s important to seperate the show discussion from fandom discussion.

        • debbab says:

          THANK Yu for telling folks that if they do not like the series they are not forced to watch it and spill vile hate into the universe. Having a question about the script or giving criticism is okay for a discussion, but the haters need not reply. Fandom stay solid and send out positive karma for season 9 now that there is more threads to the story than one can tell in 12 more episodes. You know the finale this year will be a cliff hanger.

      • Alan says:

        glad someone else is saying it, getting really sick of seeing the same complaints everywhere

      • Jessie says:

        Hostile much???

        I’m not going to “move on”. Sam is behaving out of character and Carver keeps retconning the season. When did they decide that they would never look for the other when they disappeared? The reasons they give for Sam not looking for Dean or helping Kevin are ridiculous and completely unbelievable. If you and Jude have a problem with other fans expressing their opinions then that’s really too bad for you.

  4. ollie says:

    happy they didnt mess with the mythology regarding john. glad we are going to see the safe place, but wouldnt they want to hid kevin and the half tablet there? wunder where the part angel thing regarding the soul came from ( assuming it has to do with michael) or if it will be explained. and ugh thought we were done with the whole amelia crap and it makes sense not to have anymore flashbacks.

    • skatoulaki says:

      Actually, they DID mess with the mythology regarding John. In 4.03 “In The Beginning,” the episode where Cas sends Dean back in time to stop his parents from getting together, when Dean and John are in the diner, a man comes in and starts talking to John, and when that man leaves the diner, he says to John, “Hey, tell your old man I said hello.” Carver wrote that episode. John’s father did not abandon him. So either they’re changing the show’s history OR it’s like Carver said before S8 started – “this season is all about perception.” I think most of what we’ve seen isn’t “real” – either it’s a time thing or it’s an alternate reality or it’s a trickster thing or…?

      I have faith in Carver, and I’m holding out on being overly critical of S8 for that reason. I think there’s a lot more going on than we think and perspective is being skewed, and there will be some sort of mind-blowing twist where suddenly everything will click into place and we’ll “get it.”

      • Alan says:

        old man is a vague term though, could refer to a step dad or even a grandfather who stepped in when henry disappeared. it almost felt to me that carver wrote the line like that to facilitate this kind of story being done with henry one day. now if he had said dad then i would have an issue with the episode but the line can be manipulated easily to fit the current story.

      • Debbie (Gma) says:

        Hi….just because the man in the diner says to young John Winchester say hello to your old man it does not mean that he is referring to Henry….there could have been someone else in John’s life at that point…an uncle…a cousin…a surrogate of sorts….doesn’t have to be Henry…

      • skatoulaki says:

        I think that’s grasping at straws, saying that “old man” referred to something other than his father, especially in the 70s. “Old man” is a pretty defined term to most people, and the fact that John’s being abandoned by his father was never mentioned before seems like a pretty big thing that we should have heard about at some point in the last 8 years. Just my opinion.

        • debbab says:

          Having a step dad is not far fetched as his Mom must have been pretty young given the age of the child portraying John with Henry, and if John was close to him then the comment would be passable, In the 50’s many women did not work and relied on the man of the house to be the sole salary. Did she find someone to help her bring up John?We do not know much about Henry’s wife. Was he a single dad? He was not dressed like a mechanic when he went to the MOL initiation. Was he in his Sunday best? John says he comes from a line of mechanics when he is dating Mary- was his dad or step dad if he existed the mechanic? Again this is about 20 years after Henry had vanished. Some things are better left forgiven as unknowns. Henry certainly added to the narrative and did not take away so much. Just my POV.

  5. Linda says:

    ~On Sam’s lady love, Amelia: “We think she’s a really valuable character. We liked her a lot, and it certainly creates a big complication in Sam’s life. We’re just doing the end of the season now in the room, and we’ve talked about bringing her back, but we don’t have anything specific.”~ OH GOD NOOOOO. PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO!! There is no point in having her return. Sam already said his ‘goodbye’ by not showing up. Don’t keep going back and forth with them, let her get on with her life with or without Donald.

    • Ruby says:

      Oh God, shut up. Female Supernatural character hate is so 2007.

      • Linda says:

        Nope not going to shut up thank you very much. I never said anything else about female characters but Amelia so eff off.

      • Angel says:

        The problem with Supernatural’s female characters, is that, most of the time, they are very poorly written. Some of the exceptions: Sarah (from season 1), Ellen, and the woman cop (I can’t remember her name) who liked Bobby. It just seems if the female becomes a recurring character, she is poorly written, with Ellen being the exception. As for Amelia, I didn’t mind her. I feel we haven’t really had much time to get to know her.

        • debbab says:

          Her name was Jodie Mills, no? Maddison the werewolf was pretty strong character.but love interests are short lived for obvious reasons. Amelia was Sam’s Dean for a year. She made him take responsibility for the dog, drank a lot, and talked turkey to him. Is that love or need? Sam was more emotional when he had to kill Madison and he was only with her for one nite-he was young then. Didn’t have that connection with Amelia. He cared, and tells Dean he loved her. He seemed flat-the acting because of the script. Sam seems better in 8.12 . Until the next crisis brings out the squabble factor- we love it when Dean calls him a bitch and Sam retorts with jerk in their early years. The tone was set for the characters when Dean said in season 1 Driver picks the tunes, shot gun shuts his cake hole-even Mr. Ackles agrees that this is a pivotal line for the characters.

  6. Madeline says:

    LOVED this episode. It felt sorta old school..reminiscent of the earlier seasons. I loved seeing the brothers back on the same team and acting like Sam and Dean again, the brothers Winchester.

    I am excited to see the new home base for the boys, and really curious about the Men of Letters.

    I am really looking forward to the next string of episodes.

  7. madhatter360 says:

    I’m confused about why they’re getting a home base. I saw an interview that said a large part of why they burned the roadhouse down was to stop them from having a hone base.

    • Sera Gamble wanted. Differents showrunners.

      • Linda says:

        Are you saying that Sera Gamble wanted the roadhouse or she wanted it gone because um, the roadhouse burned down in season two when Kripke was the showrunner.

        • kay66 says:

          From what I understood, Kripke never really like the Roadhouse concept, and I never saw it as a home for the boys, it was a base of operations. I do think of Bobby’s house as Sam and Dean’s home and Sera did want that removed (as well as Bobby!) because she thought it would be interesting to take away what the boys knew as familiar. That succeeded in some spots, but it didn’t really gel as a concept, so it’s nice in this season, we get a new ‘;home’ for Sam and Dean with this library which is a legacy (no pun intended) from their grandfather.

    • Alan says:

      this wont last, nothing good for them ever does

    • debbab says:

      Home base is ok with me. Provides sense of family and normalcy. Dean can hang up posters and sleep in his own room for once. Sam can be bookish and do all the research the base can provide. They will still be on the road in Babe as the job calls for it. As these brothers get older, why not give them a home base? They used the cabin earlier this season, why not step it up now that we now they are not just hunters but legacy of MOL. Is the home base protected from demons? Does it have a supernatural history from MOL since it may be the coordinates given to Sam. Does it offer a respite for Sam and Dean? If they needed some fun larping, why not provide separate bedrooms?

  8. Nia says:

    Well…atleast I have Benny to look forward to.

  9. I loved this episode. I loved the mythology they presented for the Winchester side of the family, and I’m interested to see how it comes into play from here. I personally would love to see Amelia back again. I’d like both Sam and Dean to work through some of their commitment issues, and maybe putting down some roots at this new location will help them do that.

  10. Ruby says:

    Oh, look. A bunch of women hating on a female Supernatural character. Must be Wednesday. (Or let’s face it, any day of the week and twice on Saturdays.)
    I absolutely LOVED this episode. It just ties things together so well. The whole “Men of Numbers” thing is brilliant. Loved Sam talking about the whole brains/brawn thing, that describes Sam and Dean perfectly and I’m so excited that they’re going to persue that. The fact that they’re finally going to have a home base of their very own makes me so happy…they’ve needed that for so long. Gives me a little hope that they won’t “go out in a blaze of glory” at the end, because I don’t know if I could take that. They’ve had enough, would it kill the writers to give them a happy ending?

    • Ruby says:

      Err, Men of Letters. Oops.

    • Jude says:

      I thought Rufus’s cabin was their new home base………..

    • LJ says:

      Well in this episode Dean was both the brains and the brawn since he came up with the plan to rescue Sam and succeeded. That is the most idiotic dichotomy on this show which they constantly pimp in words while showing something completely different in actions.

      Also after Singer’s comments its pretty clear to me that they plan to kill Dean off under the guise of giving him peace at the end while Sam gets his happily ever after, which he’s made clear, he can only have if Dean is out of the picture. Though why, I have no idea since he’s more than happy to ditch Dean if the wind musses his hair in the wrong direction.

    • kay66 says:

      you know, I think it’s just fine to say you didn’t like how a female character was realized and not be accused of hating all female characters. Ask 99% of female fans of spn and they’ll tell you they love Ellen and Jo, Madison, Sarah, Sherrif Jodi, Charlie, Pamela Barnes, Missouri, Anna (before she went Terminator) and you even have fans of Ruby and Meg, who while they are villians, are strong with consistent storylines.
      Amelia had possibilies, but as written, she was difficult to engage with a) when the season started, the relationship was already over b) as seen in flashbacks she was not likeable – it didn’t help that all the beginning season interviews I read had the writers say ‘the relationship is over’ and just when I was warming up to her character, up pops inexplicable dead husband which even for a show like SPN was very unrealistic. That’s why a lot of people wondered if Amelia was even a real person!
      Like the Bela character back in season three, which was written so unlikeable that fans pleaded for her to be written off, I think the writers realized there is just no basis for keeping her in right now. But I got to give them credit for trying, at least she kept Sam going, and hopefully as thanks, she won’t be brought back only to die.

      • Davi says:

        Thy also didn’t do Amelia any favors by having her cheat on her husband on her way out of the arc. She tells us all how much his death messed her up. It is the excuse we get for her being so unlikable and angry. Then she turns around and cheats on him the instant that her ex creeper stares at her through the window? That wasn’t romantic, it just made me feel bad.

      • Linda says:

        Bela was only suppose to be in ONE episode until the higher ups said to make her in more.

    • Kris says:

      Maybe if the writers wrote believable female characters… Jody didn’t get hate, Meg, Tessa, Ellen, Pamela… Give them a reason to be there other than to just fawn over the Winchesters and fandom loves them. Your generalizing about fans is ugly and just as harmful as what the writers do.

    • debbab says:

      I used to agree that they should go out in a blaze of glory but no more. WOuldn’t it be nice if they retired from active hunting and just used it as a resource for others? Or if they had moments of normalcy? When Henry said something like, As long as there are Winchesters, there is hope, I changed my mind about the finale of these characters- let’s start asking Castiel to work on a renewal- and do not let Amelia decorate the base. Sam needed her when he was grieving. He finally seems okay with his legacy. For those who whine about Sam’s character, please stop, it is getting so old. The show needs both characters and their differences. Now we know why they have such different interests: genetics.

  11. Jude says:

    And didn’t we all LOVE that Big Bad John Winchester was born and raised early on in a town called ” NORMAL, illinois” Love the writers’ sense of humor in this show!!!!

    • B says:

      Since for some reason this show uses Illinois a ton (as a native, I notice because Illinois does seem like hell and on Supernatural a lot of hellish things happen), I’m surprised they haven’t used it sooner. Hell, maybe they have.

    • Aquajaws says:

      Normal, Illinois is a real town. Its right smack in the middle of Illinois, near Bloomington and Peoria. They call the area Bloomington-Normal quite frequently.

    • debbab says:

      Normal Ill. is a real place and it lends irony to the literature that is SPN. Have you ever looked up the supernatural history of Lawrence Kansas? There really is a cemetary and legends of hell gates. Kripke did his homework.

      • Alan says:

        all the writers do their homework. about 90% of the lore they quote is real stuff, the rest is just to make a story run smoothly. its really quite impressive when you see it all.

        • debbab says:

          For those of us fans who are seemingly addicted, we appreciate the research by the writers into actual lore and most of the time scripting lines that are within the characters’ repetoire as well as licensing appropriate music which enhances the story telling. Sometimes a line is very subtle. When our boys go to the home base, Sam will also utter “Son of a Bitch”. I think it shows his acceptance of his role in the life. Henry saying “save it” to Sam is bigger than telling Sam to stuff his apology.. Dean and Sam do know a few spells of their own thru Bobby and the journal, they seem to have an angel’s feather in the trunk for Henry to steal. So kudos to the fans, the crew of SPN and I hope the haters of Sam/ Dean go to Vampire Diaries or rent twilight. I do not always love what story/script is given but hey for the most part- I still watch for those details. Know you do too.

  12. Kyle says:

    Henry died…crappy…
    I wanted him to live, I wanted him to become a recurring character..come on! WTF?!

    • LJ says:

      They don’t like recurring characters on this show. It must be Dean and Sam living in each other’s pockets and making each other miserable.

      • Alan says:

        otherwise the whiners will complain that they are taking the focus away from the brothers

      • Davi says:

        Bobby, Garth, Charlie, Ellen, Jo, Castiel, Benny, Death, Tessa, Gabriel, Becky, Sheriff Mills… Yeah. They really hate those recurring characters.

        • LJ says:

          Most of them are dead or haven’t been seen in this season or even longer. Cas and Benny most likely won’t last past the end of the season, although I suspect Garth and Charlie will hang around forever since I can’t stand either or them. So yes, I would say that the Spn writers do not want recurring characters on the show. I guess it’s just easier to write Sam and Dean having the same conversations over and over again. Eight seasons in and the characters are back to exactly where they started. The laziness is just appalling.

    • JLK says:

      If he lived though, it didn’t make any sense why he wouldn’t try to go home to John. And, as they pointed out, sending him back to raise John would have changed the future/present significantly. I won’t lie though, I did think there was a lot of potential for Henry to assist and guide the boys for a bit and part of me was hoping he’d stick around too. He needed to let his soul recharge before making the return trip anyway, right? I think they could have easily stretched him out for a couple of episodes before killing him…or otherwise incapacitating him so he couldn’t return to John. But oh well, once the boys check out the Men of Letters’ Treasure Trove, they don’t really need him. They’re certainly capable of figuring out and understanding what’s there on their own. And who knows? Maybe there are a couple more members in hiding somewhere…

  13. João Paulo says:

    Great episode, definitely one of my favorites of this season.

  14. Mo says:

    Loved this episode. I was surprised at how sad I was when Henry died, maybe because of how it emphasized the point that the boys just don’t get to have family. So I’m glad they at least get their own home base… with lots of research material for Sam and posters in his very own room for Dean!

  15. Elyse says:

    Amelia is awful.

  16. kay66 says:

    ‘Now Dean and Sam are left with Henry’s “key,” aka a box that holds scrolls and all sorts of valuable information.’ – no, the box holds the key to open the library of Supernatural stuff, if you saw the ep, the card-sized box is too small to hold info in it – unless it’s actually a TARDIS.

  17. says:

    This was one of the worst episodes. Man of Letters???? Really? The writers couldn’t come up with something better? I’ve always liked the fact that John was pulled into it because of his true love’s death. And now it just seems like they rewrote the past because it was convenient. Because Gamble KILLED everyone that might be a recurring character…. Sorry, but SPN has not recovered from the house that Gamble killed. I liked the first few episodes, but last night, why didn’t they call Castiel? Why wasn’t Crowley, the king of hell, aware that Abadon was in town?

    As for female characters? I liked all of the female characters. Jo was a tad whiny, but effective when used sparingly. Ellen was great. I liked Bella because there was someone smarter than them. The original Ruby, (sorry, but the second one can’t act.) Pamela was awesome and even Tessa the reaper is great. But Amelia must be the writers listing all the things that were wrong with ex-girlfriends and making into one character.

    • JLK says:

      For me, this story doesn’t negate that it was the death of the boys’ mother that pulled John into the life. It still did. This reveal just added an extra layer to it that it was his destiny all along to be in this life. Even with his family gone, he couldn’t avoid the supernatural world. That’s been a big part of the show from day 1. The duty/responsibility coupled with the destiny of this family. I think this storyline was consistent with that.

  18. Davi says:

    Can we not bring back Amelia? She brought nothing to the show and dragged it down. I thought she was one of the most unlikable characters ever introduced and her ‘romance’ was downright painful to watch in its drudgery. And for the record – I have enjoyed the majority of female characters on the show, so don’t bother telling me I’m a female hater because I didn’t like the poorly written Amelia.

    The ‘romance’ between her and Sam was forced and unbelievable. Best to leave that behind. Write the next love interest as a character first (like Charlie or Sheriff Mills) and you’ll have something worth watching.

    As for the home base idea, it might be good. Sure Sam and Dean will always be on the road, but if you really want he boys to grow up, a little non-artificial space might be fun.

  19. Alan says:

    great episode, henry was an excellent character who i found myself very connected to very quickly, his death had a bigger impact on me than most one and done characters.
    i love that there is an extra layer to the great winchester-campbell master plan, just makes the theme of destiny on the show that much stronger and doesnt contradict anything we have seen before; good job writers.
    i get the feeling something will be in the new home base that will lead the boys into the season ending storyline.

    • Alan says:

      also the recap segment at the beginning: holy hell that was fantastic, i got chills from it, great work by the editing guys using the classic dean line about hunting from the pilot

      • debbab says:

        If you have been a fan for several years, all of the recap and references within the show to previous threads was fun. There has been criticism of it, but I really enjoy these fan moments.

    • debbab says:

      I did not see it as a contradiction either. It just added another piece. John’s Daddy issue and how destiny and intervening events twist a character. Explains the different nature of the brothers, but Dean is not an ape- nor is Sam only a bookworm. Glad Henry cleared himself before he sacrificed for the brothers. Nice that another Winchester did this so that S and D could survive. There is hope. More stories to tell.

  20. Alan says:

    devils trap on a bullet, thats just pure genius and im amazed we havent seen anything like that before; very clever idea.

  21. Jessica Valure says:

    I don’t agree with half of you people stop bitching about Sam not looking for Dean and there is no difference between Sam not looking for Dean or for Dean not looking for Sam. Sam had no idea where to even look for Dean so stop hating on Sam he did nothing wrong but if you want to hate Sam then hate Dean to cause he did nothing to try and get Sam out of hell and he knew where he was. And Sam and Dean get an equal amount of screen time and story lines its not always about Sam there is alot of Dean heavy story lines. I love both Sam and Dean and none of them did anything wrong when they didn’t look for each other so come on and give it a rest if I was in Sams shoes I wouldn’t have looked either for Dean Sam had know why of knowing where Dean went Crowley knew but wouldn’t tell him. LEAVE SAM ALONE!!!!!!!!!

    • Jessie says:

      I love Sam, that’s why I am so outraged that they denigrated his character so badly. Like a poster above said, all they had to do was put in a throwaway line with Sam saying he looked but couldn’t find Dean. Dean did look for a way to get Sam out of hell. The writers put that line in for Dean – why not Sam? It is just so out of character for Sam to not have looked. It taints the entire season.

    • LJ says:

      Mr. Singer is that you?

      • Alan says:

        yes because the only way someone could like what they are doing this season is if they are working on the show *eye roll*

    • Wendi says:

      I agree with your post 100% thank you for saying what I have been thinking but didn’t know how to say as well as you just did.

  22. CountryQueen says:

    When Dean thought Sam was in Hell it wasn’t as if Sam was just off having a picnic. Did you guys ever think that Sam, after spending the year without Dean, and without his soul, basically being a killing machine, and getting to the point where he actually let Dean become a vampire just NEEDED to stop? That he found looking for Dean to be so overwhelming after all that, that he wanted to try having a normal life? Who’s to say that after a time he wouldn’t have been looking again? I’d like to think this is the end for Amelia. We don’t need to see her again. The actress portraying her didn’t have the spark with Sam on screen. I hope Benny is staying clean. I liked him and cant wait to see him. I missed Cas this epi.

    • Jessie says:

      Those are really good speculations, but that’s all they are. The show needs to give us a better reason than “I didn’t know where to look; everyone was dead.” I’ll never believe that Sam wouldn’t look.

    • Davi says:

      But that is the problem. We’ve never been shown or told anything to support that. We had a little bit of dialogue telling us Sam was distraught – but all of the flashbacks showed Sam being fairly even keeled and with it for any grieving man let alone the headcase that can be a grieving Winchester.

      My big dislike is the mutilation of Sam. When he went crazy, we got to see that. When he was soulless, we got to see that too.When Sam just couldn’t go on and ‘fell in love’ with Amelia, we got to see him fixing sinks and getting yelled at. There is no reason to believe his drastic character changes, and being a fan of the show doesn’t mean I have to accept the extremely poor writing job for Sam’s storyline this season.

    • LJ says:

      If it wasn’t shown or told to us, it didn’t happen. Sam has a history of only caring about what he wants for himself so I actually find it quite in character for him to decide that he can’t be bothered to look for Dean. It makes a joke out of the so-called brotherly bond but I don’t think it’s really out of character.

  23. ChrisCross says:

    Loved this latest episode. Loved grandpa. Loved the key plotline. Everything sounds SO EXCITING except for boring Amelia. PLEASE DON’T BRING HER BACK! She’s dull. Supernatural’s not a soap opera. All her scenes with Sam were so dreary and Sam not looking for his brother was totally OOC.

  24. Donna says:

    I’m a huge SPN fan, and love reading these comments. I agree regarding Amelia; and just for the record, I think we fans feel this way because she represents a rift between Dean and Sam (if not for her, Sam may have looked for Dean while he was in purgatory, and maybe Sam wouldn’t be such as ass and OOC this season if his heart wasn’t broken, and maybe Dean could still be good friends with Benny, ect). Our dislike for Amelia has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a love interest for Sam (after all, we liked Jess and Maddie, and kinda liked season 4 Ruby, lol). I have loved each episode, regardless of the writers flaws and such… I am stoked about season 9 and the new homebase and MOL storyline. I do wish that the writers wouldn’t have killed off Henry W. so soon, because it would have been sweet if the boys could have had even a short relationship with their paternal grandfather, since their maternal granddad turned out to be a douchbag. Maybe they can get Cas to take them back-n-time a few weeks to delay H.W.’s death? It could happen, and we can hope..

  25. Friend of Cas says:

    I would like to see Sam & Dean use the spell Henry used to go thru time, but when the spell is used, one goes to John, and the other to Henry, and finally (with help from Cas), getting the two together, so Henry can explain what happened to John and the two can have closure.then when Sam and Dean return to the present, they too, feel better about their past.

  26. debbab says:

    A golem is an inanimate clay figure brought to life by another person’s power. This week looks promising. Was Sam brought back to a new fake reality by Amelia until he was able to work out of it in Moondoor? ‘Cause he was kinda clay like and non functioning the year Dean was with Benny. Meaningless jobs,attachment disorder, hulki By his own admission he was Soderberged by Amelia- a director who specializes in mind or body control and psychological thrillers. He seems brighter and more animated since meeting Henry and finally seeing his importance in the real world. Sounds like he might get obsessive again once they are in their new crib. That’s not always bad. He does get to say Son of a Bitch as well as Dean in the episode- Carver’s way of telling us they are equals? 24hours to go.

  27. I love how the writers just make stuff up as they go along these days. The level of their talent never fails to amaze me. /sarcasm.

  28. Lady keys says:

    I am 61 years old and I love Supernatural. I first discovered it wAtchingTNT. Now I’m watching the new season.

  29. Lady keys says:

    I do love the writer’s story lines. They are very imaginative.