Madam Secretary‘s Sara Ramirez, EP Break Down Kat and Jay’s (Somewhat Shady) LGBTQ Refugee Solution
Kat Sandoval, welcome to the Department of State doghouse.
Sunday’s Madam Secretary ended on an upnote of sorts: A group of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer people was able to slip away from the government persecuting it and take refuge in another nation. But the underground, foreign-policy maneuvering Kat and Jay had to pull to make the rescue happen could have negative ramifications in the long-term.
Long story short: The State Department, working via a non-governmental organization, engaged Kurdish smugglers to get the LGBTQ victims from their home territory of Abkhazia to Bulgaria, which promised refuge. But the Kurds and the Turks are archenemies… which is why Elizabeth was wildly unhappy with both her policy advisor and her chief of staff by the end of the hour.
“The diplomatic relationships with Turkey are at a very tenuous place at the beginning of the episode,” executive producer Lori McCreary tells TVLine. “Free speech was on the table, how they were treating their LGBTQI community was on the table, and this broke that. So Elizabeth, at the end of the episode, is going to go back and have to figure out how to repair that.”
She adds that the resultant problems will simmer until Episode 21, “where we’re going to see the ramifications of that. These are big, global issues.”
Also covered in the episode: Kat’s bisexuality, which was depicted in a different fashion than Blake’s coming out as bi last season. We spoke with McCreary and actress Sara Ramirez about how the CBS drama handled the conversation.
TVLINE | Can you both speak to the scene between Jay and Kat where he fumbles his way through the conversation about how she used to look more feminine before she left D.C.? Sara, how much of your personal experiences figured into the language and tone in that scene?
MCCREARY | We definitely wanted to have a very personal connection for these characters. Jay’s backstory was that he had been involved in the Iran Treaty, when there was a homosexual man who was executed — stoned to death, quite frankly — and it was because of Jay’s inaction that that happened. So he’s coming from a particular point of view of, “Oh my God, I cannot be ignorant anymore. Kat, please help me understand it.” I got a call from one of writers saying, “We’ll definitely need Sara’s input on this. Can she help us navigate these waters?” And Jay’s almost like our audience, wanting to know more.
RAMIREZ | I gave notes on [the first draft] after the table read, and the writers were really responsive. They took all of my notes, basically, and the scene — in terms of language, certainly in how Kat discloses her various identities — shifted greatly. I was really appreciative, because this is personal for me, you know? This secret that who I am, and all my various identities. It was important for me to tell stories that are reflective of the lived experience and the communities that I’m a part of. And Kat’s experience as a bisexual plus Latinx woman and parent is a story that typically isn’t told. Also, when Jay Whitman assumes Kat’s sexuality, based on her gender expression, and again on the gender of her partner, Kat did what many bisexual plus people have to do, and that is to come out and correct those assumptions.
TVLINE | Which she does rather gently, whereas she would have been well within her rights not to take on the work of teaching him.
RAMIREZ | Absolutely. You know, Kat and Jay had already developed somewhat of a working relationship, so there’s a mutual respect there already. It made sense to me that Kat would close the door for privacy when things started to really get into the [details], which I kind of liked. Yeah, Kat turned it into a teachable moment, and teaching is nothing if patience and compassion isn’t involved. You’ve got to meet people where they are, and that’s what Kate does: She meets Jay where he’s at with this, and he meets her where she’s at with this. It’s really kind of beautiful.
…It was really important in this scene, too, for me, that we see that Kat is in a non-traditional family with her partner… She talks a little bit in previous episodes around not having to give into the pressure of living some traditional life, and that gave me the thought that we could push that even further with her and her life, to learn that that’s maybe where that stance comes from… It was important for me that she didn’t gender her child with a pronoun in that scene. We just hear the name Desi. These are stories that aren’t really being told in this way, and complex narratives make for better, more authentic storytelling.
Wow not gender her child with a pronoun? What the heck happened to Sara Ramirez? She use to be beautiful now she looks inexplicable. She always seemed level headed now does she suddenly believe there are 3 genders? I never had a problem with her being bisexual and always thought she was a great actress but this is just too much. I am so sick of liberal loons ruining good shows. Greys is doing the same thing they want to push an agenda that is such a small percentage of the population and make it seem normal. Not only that they want to encourage people to give it a try even in school aged children! They can tell their stories without this extremism but they want to increase their numbers and make it seem perfectly normal when it is not.
Mary, you seem quite scared by the fact that people who are not your sexuality get to be shown living daily lives like everyone else, what is your problem? Does every show bring on a bigot female character so you won’t feel underrepresented? Because it’s such a minor part of the population and it could show that as perfectly normal when it’s definitely not…
*Need to bring
“What is your problem? Does every show bring on a bigot female character so you won’t feel underrepresented?”
LOL!!! and more LOL!!!
80% of these scripted show have gay characters, so i call b.s. on the representative thing
I am not a bigot what I am is sick of people who are such a tiny percent of the population having so much power and being over represented. I do not want my child taught in 3rd grade about gay sex and gender fluidity. Children are easily confused and easy to manipulate and I would not want anything of a sexual nature discussed with them at such a young age. There are 2 genders male and female and no matter how much you say otherwise it does not change the facts. I am just sick to death of having this stuff shoved down our throats. If someone only watched tv and movies with no contact with the outside world hands down they would think 25 percent of the population is LBTGQ and whatever other letters you can come up with. That is way over the actual percentage. I would not like it as a women if all of a sudden women were 75 percent of characters on tv/movies because that would be way over the actual percentage. So call me any names you like but this movement is never happy. You always want to push the envelope further and further.
To bad you can’t come to terms with nature and the belief that all people are God’s children. You should question your violent thoughts, for they do nothing but cause pain to yourself and possibly others. There is a very good reason to show minorities as ‘normal’ people. They are normal people, even though they may not show your genetic qualities or may come from a different background or have different beliefs than you. It is a public service to try to educate the narrow minded, because the narrow minded are the cause of inequality and conflict in the world.
Wow what an absolute lie that is. I NEVER said one word about violence against anyone. My thoughts are neither violent or bigoted. I acknowledged they are Gods children and he loves them. As I said you can love the sinner but hate the sin. I also pointed out that goes for everyone who sins. My main objection is the indoctrination of children to try to increase their numbers. I know for a fact it exists because I have not only researched it but it happened to two of my family members and it caused them great trauma because they didn’t know how to react and got very confused. You are just another liberal who hates anyone who doesn’t agree with them. You say we are intolerant but you are the true intolerant ones. You even turn on other Liberals if they happen to agree with something conservatives say. Just go to your safe space and continue to hate half the Country. Self righteous hypocrites.
Lemme guess – you’re a “Christian” (quotation marks because I don’t think the god you believe in would condone your attitude). Which likely means that you think your god doesn’t make mistakes, right? Ergo, LGBT people (who make up at least 15% of people) are just as “normal” as the rest of us.
.
You? Not so much.
First of all it is not 15 percent. 10 percent is even stretching it. And most people agree with me. It is just too much trying to get most people to approve of those things. Of course it should be tolerated and as Christians we do not set people on fire or throw them off roofs or turn them away but that does not mean we have to accept and approve of their lifestyle choices. And we are all God’s children and normal in his eyes but he can still not like are behavior and how we live our lives. And that goes for everyone.
15% ?? please cite your source. And by labeling someone’s opposing views as “attitude” you reveal your own radical liberal bias! lol. To say we don’t want the 3rd gender/neutral gender/whatever-the-hell-you-call-that-BS agenda pushed on every good show on TV is our right, and our own opinion. If you can’r respect it, then you’re the one being un-American.
Mary, don’t confuse what’s visible to what’s reality. The reason you don’t see a more accurate reflection of how many gender fluid people there are out there is because they’re afraid of how they’ll be treated. Bisexuality, homosexuality, transgender & those who feel it inaccurate to represent themselves via traditional gender nomenclature are all as naturally occurring, and thus normal, as heterosexuality. How these topics are represented on shows like Grey’s & Madam Secretary are not part of any brainwashing, it’s part of getting something that’s been hidden out in the open so those involved, and those around them, can live comfortably with who they are. If that offends your sense of morality, you might think about re-visiting that because those folks aren’t doing anything wrong & our society will be a much happier place when everyone can be who they are without being worried about harassment, judgement, violence, discrimination, etc.
Amen!
THERE ARE ONLY 2 GENDERS MALE AND FEMALE. ASK ANY DOCTOR, SCIENTIST ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN! AND NO MATTER WHAT ANY OF YOU SAY THAT WILL NOT CHANGE. LIVE YOUR LIFE ANY WAY YOU WANT IT BUT DON’T FLAUNT IT IN FRONT OF OUR FACES. WE WERE SHOPPING THE OTHER DAY AND THIS GUY/GIRL KEPT COMING AROUND US TRYING TO GET A RISE OUT OF US. HE JUST WANTED US TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HIS FLAMBOYANT BEHAVIOR BUT WE DIDN’T SAY A WORD. JUST LIKE THE DRAG QUEENS WHO WENT INTO A CATHOLIC CHURCH AND TAUNTED THE PRIEST. THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR IS JUST UNCALLED FOR. PERIOD.
How sad for you that Sara Ramirez does not meet or conform to your standards of beauty. Congrats on “reading” the article while completely missing the point!
Two bisexuals on the same TV show? So brave so groundbreaking, let’s give yourself a big pat on the back! #RepresentationMatters, Ms. Ramirez? Who needs homosexual representation on TV right. I don’t ever, EVER in my life want to hear that actress claiming that she’s LGBT activist again. She cares only about “B” and “T”. Madam Secretary failed showing gay men and lesbians persecutions in that part of the world making it about LGBTQIAQ.
Wow, biphobic much?
Wow, triggered much, Marco? Do you always have these little temper tantrums?
Jesus would be ashamed of you.
I really truly LOVE diversity and representation on my screen but….that hair – or lack of it – doesn’t suit her one bit. It’s distracting on an aesthetical level. It was a misguided attempt to make her character edgy.
I think it’s her decision to have short hair. Short hair, don’t care.
I loathe her hair, too. But I also dislike the look of a lot of TV characters….
that was/is Sara’s personal hairstyle before she joined the show.
I don’t care about her sexual preference. I just don’t like the hair cut. It is distracting. Also, I’m concerned that MS isn’t doing well in the ratings and I’m worried about it being cancelled. It was great in the beginning, not sure where it went wrong.
Word is, it’s faring astoundingly well in syndication, and as that =$$$$$ for CBS, we probably don’t have to worry about it going anywhere…yet.
Her appearance is quite extreme for the workplace. Judging by that, gay males in that office should certainly be allowed to wear drag to work.
What, exactly, is extreme about short back and sides with a suit and tie? Do tell.
She looks like a punk rock admirer
abkhazia is not a country, Please do not insult my country, georgia – tbilisi,
Did they really say it was a country / independent nation?!? That is a terrible mistake on the part of these producers. Unless they have a hidden agenda….
The anti-loving nature of your comment is that you say that people who are not of your sexual persuasion are committing a sin. What that really means is that you think that people who haven’t been indoctrinated in the same belief system as you must be sinning when they do something on your list of ‘sins’, according to your private beliefs. That is anti-Christian, in my opinion. I don’t hate you, but I do hate narrow minded bias. NO ONE is talking kids into being one way of the other, sexually. They are born the way they are, with biological differences.
Yo considero que mientras una persona sea honrada, tenga un comportamiento ético, sea educada y respetuosa, trate bien a las otras personas y no le haga mal a otros, todo lo demás, es de cada quien, el corte de cabello, la ropa, los accesorios, el color de la piel, las preferencias sexuales y todo lo demás, es personal. Es que estan haciendo mucha publicidad de una u otra cosa, cada quien es autónomo de creer o no creer, de apoyar o o apoyar, de instalarse en un pensamiento o en otro, y esa también es una decisión personal. Se puede estar de acuerdo o no, lo que no se debe es irrespetar o descalificar al otro por el hecho de no estar de acuerdo con su forma de ser.