Arrow Recap Olicity Flashbacks

Arrow Recap: Talking the Talk

The CW’s Arrow this week offered a message in a bottle… episode.

As Oliver and Felicity grappled with their imprisonment in the bunker by both an EMP explosion (that left the latter paralyzed anew) and the lair’s many nuclear-proof safeguards, they got to talking — broaching topics that 11 months ago they agreed it was too soon to touch.

In flashbacks that took place between Seasons 4 and 5, we saw that in the wake of a successful nabbing of a bandit, Curtis set the stage for rekindled romance by leaving Oliver and Felicity with abundant Chinese food and wine. And indulge, they did.

After loosening up with some vino, a salmon ladder tutorial turned into an entirely different sort of physical exertion, as Felicity declared, “I had a lot to drink” before pulling her ex into a steamy clinch. They then sank to the workout room floor to… burn some calories.

Afterward, though, Felicity acknowledged, “This was nice, but it doesn’t change things between us.” She states that even if there had been no William, “there would still be no us, because you don’t trust me.

“You don’t trust anyone, and I don’t know why,” she continued. “If I did, things might be different.” Until then, “I love you but can’t settle for anything less than your full trust,” she makes clear.

Cut back to 11 months later, and Oliver — unable to stand upright after weathering three explosions, one sizable fall, getting stabbed by a bolt and inhaling a heavy dose of methane — comes clean to Felicity about what his torture at Adrian Chase’s hands brought him to realize: that a part of him, bigger than he wants to admit, enjoyed the killing that honoring his father’s legacy led him to do.

And that, he says, is what led him to not back her play by working with Helix (though the logic of that argument escaped me a bit). As he put it, he didn’t support her choice not because of distrust, or worry that she’d become like him, but because “I’m not man you fell in love with.” Felicity counters that Adrian Chase didn’t make him a killer, the “five years in hell did,” followed by five years of brutal crimefighting. And the fact that he didn’t turn into a monster from all that “proves the kind of person you are.”

After they were rescued by Diggle, Curtis, Rene, Dinah, an A.R.G.U.S.-augmented T-sphere and some improbable climbing physics, Oliver summoned Felicity to his hospital bedside to say that he “appreciated what she said” during their ordeal, and “hopefully it will stick.” Felicity in turn apologized for “being a hypocrite,” explaining that after losing Billy, she chose to emulate Oliver by doing whatever necessary to get Adrian Chase. Having had that “tiniest taste” of Oliver’s island odyssey, “I understand why you had to lie to me about William. And for the extent I judged you, I’m sorry.” She then urged him to “find out” what kind of person he really is.

As for why Chase went to this trouble to incapacitate Oliver: As worried, we see him introduce himself to young “Matthew” fka William, in his new town, explaining, “I knew your father… and he knew mine.”

Elsewhere in the episode: Diggle and Lyla butted heads the morning after their first blow-out, after which he slept on the couch. She chided him for taking the stance he has, seeing as his work with Team Arrow isn’t exactly all about morality. Things are cool between them for much of the mission to rescue Oliver and Felicity, and then get chillier when Dig realizes that A.R.G.U.S. stole Curtis’ tech. At the end of the day, though, Lyla successfully argues that Diggle always backs Oliver, even when he doesn’t agree with his choices — and that she, as his wife, deserves at least the same courtesy. Diggle agrees, and with her voluntary turnover of a list of A.R.G.U.S. black ops, they agree to “no more secrets,” and commit to making things work.

What did you think of the episode “Underneath”?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

104 Comments
  1. Ally says:

    Really enjoyed the episode.

    • Jim says:

      Wow, the writers actually wrote the Olicity relationship with maturity and depth? How’d that happen! Did they actually hire new people? Ha. Major rehabilitation here for all the inexplicable ways they wrote Felicity as an immature shrew over the previous two seasons, and how little sense any of it made. And props for not only realizing they had to address it or it would continue to be the elephant in the room everytime they shared the screen, but actually not doing it in the usual hamfisted manner. GREAT episode.

  2. Fishing says:

    Sooooooo good! Loved the episode. Top 3 best of the season. Arrow is at its best blending action with drama and character development.

  3. peterwdawson says:

    Still dunno how to feel about this season overall but definitely think this episode’s a stronger one.

  4. Lizzie says:

    I really enjoyed this episode. Lots of Olicity but it was earned. They deserved this time to talk things out. The flashbacks was freaking hot though. The lack of Olicity this season had me forgetting just how incredible their chemistry is. Nothing can match it on this show. Wow. I really hope they get back together. The set-up is there. Love isn’t a problem and they’re fixing the trust issues. Awesome. More please.

    Dinah is growing on me more and more. She’s gonna make a great Black Canary, I think.

  5. Susie Excell says:

    I love it! It had everything I needed to get me back to Arrow land! :0)

  6. jrex says:

    Not sure how they assume Chase set up the EMP. Seemed to me like it was the Helix thingie that set off the blast last week. I had assumed they had double-crossed Felicity to cover their tracks or were they collaborating with Chase?

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      No, the point of Felicity plugging in the Helix program was to see that Chase was on top of them – just before the EMP went off.

    • Lizzie says:

      It was definitely Chase. He had to ensure they were trapped so he had time to go and kidnap William. It was basically a delay tactic.

  7. Stormie says:

    I loved it so much. Oliver and Felicity had the talks they needed to have. It was mature and both owned where they went wrong. Their problem has never been lack of love because they are in love it’s trust. Felicity opened the door to a possible reunion and Oliver said he is not giving up on her. The chemistry is off the charts with these actors I mean that love scene would melt an iceberg. I really loved the Digg and Lyla scenes also. Both of them have had to stray in the gray area of morals and justice. It’s so nice to see adult conversations on Superhero shows I haven’t seen that on some of the others. Chase having William scares me but I know Team Arrow will do everything to save him.

  8. Anthony says:

    Are we just gonna ignore dinah’s comment about rene and curtis making a cute couple lol

    • Lizzie says:

      I loved that! She’s growing on me a lot.

    • Lex says:

      The relationship that’s developed between Dinah, Curtis and Rene definitely makes the latter two much more tolerable. I always liked Rene, but Curtis has been getting on my nerves. He was better used this episode, and I didn’t find myself shouting at him to shut up, which was nice.

    • Flashrow says:

      I am seeing them as a couple too many episodes ago. Since Curtis broke up with his hubby, I presumed that they would like to take that route

  9. ellisbell says:

    Such a well done episode. Beautiful, deep conversations. The parallels were SO well thought out and well done. I’m very impressed. Top 3 Arrow episodes of all time for me.

  10. Dana Fansler says:

    They should kill off Curtis Felicity and Dinah and bring back Earth 1 Laurel Lance.

    • ABC says:

      lol but she’s useles unlike Curtis and Felicity

    • Lex says:

      It’s like a record that keeps on skipping…

    • Liz says:

      No thanks to that. All three of them combined are far more useful than Laurel, no offence.

      • Scribe says:

        Agreed. I find it amusing that for the first tbree seasons everyonr thought Laurel was a waste of space. S3 she became BC overnight and still the complaints continued. The second she dids she becomes indispensable.

        • Cyndi says:

          I totally agree. People seem to forget how universally disliked the character of Laurel was in the earlier seasons. Then when she dies, people are all up in arms about it. What is that? I never really liked Laurel, I thought she was written horribly for the most part. I also think Sara made an amazing Black Canary, and that Dinah is shaping up to be great. I never really believed Laurel as Black Canary. I feel like it wasn’t earned on her part, and the writers just decided to stick with the comics and make her BC. I’m annoyed that they are bringing her back, even though she’s from another Earth. Death apparently means nothing unless you’re Tommy. All that being said, I did enjoy Laurel as a lawyer. I think Katie Cassidy did an excellent job when given those arcs.

          • Michael Haynes says:

            Laurel was a waste of a character, don’t care either way about her. Apathy is a character’s worst enemy.

          • And this is why we like Laurel because of the blind hate for her and the blind love for Sara who made BC a lazy character who couldn’t fight

          • Lex says:

            Please explain your logic. Perhaps you believe in a literal reading of the source material? Because Sara Lance is everything we needed in a Black Canary, even if she didn’t have the correct name. In spirit, she is the Dinah Lance in the comics.

          • Liz says:

            @michaelaterndrup, I’m sorry, I’m a bit confused. On what earth was Sara a lazy character who couldn’t fight? She was awesome at fighting! She still is. I thought she was fantastic. I’m still mad they killed her to kickstart Laurel’s journey.

          • jj says:

            Liz, I agree. michaelaterndrup’s comment doesn’t make sense. Sara is one of the best fighters in the Arrowverse. She and Oliver are arguably the two best.

      • ladyshedor says:

        well said

    • DaveM says:

      why are you pathetic haters still around? get a life you know-nothing loser.

    • Susie Excell says:

      Not going to happen EVER

      • Susie Excell says:

        I never did like Laurel as a BC she was weak and cried a lot in season 1 and 2..Sara was awesome she was hot and cool..I didn’t like her with Oliver but with Nessa she was HOT girl! When I think of Laurel I don’t understand why everyone is always wanting that weak character back..And this weeks episode 20 was Fabulous!!!!

  11. jenn says:

    “i’m not man you fell in love with,” i like this caveman version of oliver.

  12. Jacques says:

    So good… It was so dang good.

  13. A says:

    Well I might actually start watching again

  14. A says:

    Well I might actually start watching again if Olicity is coming back

  15. Personally I didn’t much care for the Olicity stuff, if only because it still felt like Felicity was blaming Ollie when she was the one at fault. Despite what the writers keep trying to make us believe it’s never been Ollie who has trust issues. It’s always been her.

    • Liz says:

      He was at fault for lying to her though.

      • He didn’t lie though. He respected the wishes of the mother of his child and didn’t tell anyone about him. She was afraid that if people knew that William would be in danger. And with good reason as it turned out.Yes, maybe he should have told Felicity, but the truth is, she had no right to that knowledge. She just is the type of person who believes that she has the right to all knowledge and can’t understand that other people are allowed to have secrets too.
        Any other times Ollie “lied” were him keeping things from her on an operational level, something ANY competent commander does. Especially if they know that it is something that will be unpopular but is still necessary.The fact that the writers keep trying to make that into a bad thing frankly leaves me flabbergasted. (I still don’t get the way they tried to justify having Diggle-a career military man-act like it was unforgivable. If any Team Arrow member should understand “need to know” it’s Digg.)

        • Liz says:

          And while respecting the stupid nonsensical wishes of the mother of his child, he still lied. A lie is a lie.

          • Lex says:

            He didn’t trust Felicity, and isn’t that the entire point of this exercise? He should have trusted in Felicity, knowing she (1) would not told anyone else about William, and (2) do everything in her power to protect him. What did he think would happen if he told Felicity about William and told her she wasn’t allowed to mention him to anyone? Was she going to go broadcast the news on live TV? Go straight to Damian Darhk? Lying to Felicity caused more harm than good, because William still got kidnapped.

          • kaliber says:

            This is such a petty sentiment.

          • Liz says:

            @Kaliber, it’s not a petty statement. I fully believe Samantha’s request for Oliver to lie to everyone, including the woman he was going to marry, completely unacceptable and selfish. She had no reason for that request. If she knew he was the Green Arrow I could understand her not wanting anyone to know he had a kid but she didn’t know at that point. It was a nasty thing to do, especially as she had kept his son from him for years and he could have fought for custody rights if he wanted to.

          • Angelfan says:

            I didn’t find the mother’s wishes nonsensical at all given Oliver’s two dangerous jobs. I just found the way the writer’s handled it childish. Oliver should have gone to the mother, explained why he needed to tell Felicity and as an adult, she most likely would’ve agreed to telling her. Instead we got a contrived mess to break up Oliver and Felicity. I don’t care if they are together or apart. Just write it well

          • Mari says:

            As far as Samantha knew, Oliver was a guy who had reformed his playboy ways and was running to be mayor of his city. There was nothing dangerous in that, unless you consider living in Star City to be dangerous.
            The whole storyline was a huge mess.

        • Neza says:

          You can’t ask someone to marry you and not tell them that you have a child. Felicity knowing abut the child would not have put him in any more danger than he was in already. Believing anything else means that he thought that Felicity would intentional harm the kid or put him in harms way and if he thought that than he should not even be dating her let alone marry her. Besides Felicity did not no about the kid and he still ended up in danger.

          The truth is Oliver had a simple choice he could like to a woman he once had a one night stand with and not tell her that he told Felicity about the kid, or he could choose to lie to the woman he allegedly loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with and not tell her he had a son, and he chose wrong.

          The kid’s mom never had to find out that Oliver told Felicity the truth but there was no scenario in which Felicity wouldn’t have eventually found out the truth and had to know that the second she did their relationship would have been over.

          I am not trying to be mean but you can’t possibly expect some one to marry you after they find out that you have been laying abut something this big.

          • Liz says:

            THIS x 10000. Olicity were in a committed relationship. They were going to marry. By lying to her, Oliver was going to make Felicity a step mother without her knowledge! That’s terrible. If he didn’t want to tell her the truth he should have at least said that there was something going on but he couldn’t tell her right now but he would eventually. That would have solved a lot of problems but for some dumb reason they wanted to break them up for a while. The whole thing was messy and did no one any favours but I will never accept him lying as the right thing to do. They threw Felicity under a bus in this episode to justify their terrible writing of this whole mess.

        • kath says:

          Oliver said that Felicity was his partner. You don’t keep secrets that big from a partner.
          Keeping William a secret from Felicity made no sense in terms of things getting out because she always kept Oliver’s secrets.
          Barry knew, Thea knew,and I think Diggle knew. But the minute Oliver realized that Malcolm Merlyn knew was the moment he should have told Felicity because she could have helped protect William with tech. Oliver not telling Felicity led to William getting kidnapped.

          But entirely separate from that, Oliver was going to marry her so yes, Felicity did have the right to know that Oliver had a child even beyond the fact that adult relationships are based on honesty.
          Not to mention that if Samantha had ever gone for back child support, it would have been granted at the rate of how much money the Queens had in previous years and Felicity would have been on the hook for a huge amount of money since Oliver had noe at the time.

        • Maisy says:

          This whole ‘mother of his child trumps commited partner’ thing just boggels my mind. I am a single mother, I am parenting with my ex who now has a significant other, and it is compleate BS to say that he ‘owes’ me the right to dictate or enforce information or secrets from his partner. Thats not how things work. The whole plot line felt like it came straight from the pen of a married man, because no single mother would act like Samantha did. Because a rich, connected white man who had been lied to about his child, who’s baby mamma had accepted money to keep his child away would be a shoe in for custody, and any single mother worth her salt would be contorting herslef to keep this from court and chance loosing custody. Felicity had a right to know. Samantha was in no place to make such demands, and the fact that she did, and that Oliver conceeded, is super contrived, and makes me unable to even see Samantha as a character, to me she is a walking plot prompt.

    • RomanticAtHeart says:

      I absolutely agree. It wasn’t that Oliver didn’t want to trust her with William’s identity. He was sworn to secrecy by his son’s mother and they were his parents. She could have tried to understand, instead she lashed out about honesty and trust while keeping her own secrets from him.

      Oliver has his own demons, but I believe Felicity is afraid to trust him totally with her heart. That’s why she’s always so quick to run to another guy, or even back home after they were away at the beginning of season four.

      • Mari says:

        I don’t under the logic of how this is Felicity’s fault:
        – Samantha kept William’s existence a secret from Oliver because Moira paid her $2 million to not tell Oliver;
        – under the law, Oliver has parenting rights, maybe even partial custody, and Samantha has no legal; right to keep him from having access to William, ;
        – based on zero moral or legal authority, Samantha told Oliver to lie to his future wife or she wouldn’t let him see William;
        – when Oliver married Felicity, she would have a financial responsibility for William. If something happens to Samantha, Felicity would probably end up having to help raise William but she would be blindsided since she didn’t know William existed;
        – Felicity could have helped in keeping William from being kidnapped.
        .
        Samantha isn’t the world’s best mother anyway. She doesn’t appear to have taught William not to talk to strangers (again, that’s how Malcolm kidnapped him).
        The whole mess is the fault of Samantha who put an impossible condition on to Oliver, and Oliver who agreed to it instead of calling on the force of Queen and PT lawyers

        • RomanticAtHeart says:

          First, I will say this was a bad way to break Oliver and Felicity up.

          In a perfect world, yes, Oliver could have gone to court, fought for his parental rights and told Felicity like he wanted to, but this wasn’t a perfect world and this is a comic book trope. Samantha held all the cards. She was threatening to leave with William and had the means to disappear overnight. Law be damned. At that point, she’s the only parent in William’s life. She gave Oliver no wiggle room to tell his fiancée and played on his heart about the danger he would put him in. Danger that he already believes he lives with everyday. I like to think he was hoping to change her mind after some time (I know naive), but then everything Samantha feared came true. Oliver’s secret was discovered and his two dangerous lives did prove to be too dangerous to William and he was kidnapped, much like what happened with Felicity in season three.

          My problem with this situation was the writing. He made a decision in the best interest of his child. It was not made because he didn’t trust Felicity. Does Felicity have a right to be angry and hurt? Yes, she does, but she doesn’t have a right in that situation.

          What I fault Felicity for is throwing the baby out with the bathwater yet again, which has been her M.O. since season three. Felicity never tries to understand what he was going through and the conditions he was put under. She’s quick to play the truth and honesty card, but she keeps secrets herself. She just tells him how she feels, how he’s wrong and bails. Oh, I forgot and instantly gets involved with another man. Isn’t he worth trying to repair the damage to their relationship? Here, I felt she was acknowledging that, but putting too much emphasis on his lack of trusting her, which wasn’t a fair assessment to me.

  16. Lex says:

    While the majority of the episode was excellent, I will say that Felicity taking on full culpability for the break-up didn’t sit well with me. I am feeling it a little bit more after reading Matt’s recap, but there’s still an element where it was Felicity apologizing for her reactions to Oliver’s lie while Oliver didn’t apologize for using the lie in the first place. Your mileage may vary, but it didn’t leave me with the same resolved feeling I got from Diggle and Lyla’s subplot.
    .
    That said, it was otherwise phenomenal, and one more in a streak of very, very strong episodes. After season 5a was so disappointing I wasn’t expecting much from 5b, but it continues to impress.
    .
    The conversation Oliver and Felicity had while in the bunker needed to happen. Oliver needed to hear Felicity (specifically) contradict Chase’s opinion of Oliver, and serve as the voice of reason. It makes me think back to Logan and the line where he tells little baby Wolverine Laura “don’t become what they made you to be.” Oliver needed that message after the past ten years, that in spite of the hell he’s been put through he doesn’t have to see himself as only a monster.
    .
    The stunts this episode had an emotional impact, and weren’t just there for big explosions and cool parkour moves. The scene where Diggle, Oliver and Felicity are all hanging on to each other was extremely well done, and my OTA feels went through the roof. We had a recall to the season 1 elevator shaft scene, which was probably one of my favorite moments.
    .
    I think this is a very strong first step towards an Olicity reunion, and while I didn’t feel the flasback sex scene was earned or was completely necessary, it was SA and EBR’s chemistry on full display, something that bleeds through even when they’re arguing.
    .
    With William in Chase’s crosshairs next episode (significantly named “Sins of the Fathers”), I expect more resolution on Oliver’s relationship with his son than we got this episode. I’m hoping Oliver will make it clear he knows lying to Felicity about William was wrong, and Felicity encouraging Oliver to have a relationship with William now. BTS shots of the final episodes show Samantha on the island, so we’ll see what happens with that.

    • ABC says:

      She didn’t though. She said she understood – she didn’t say he was right.

    • Liz says:

      MTE. I really disliked Felicity taking on the blame of the break up. He lied. If he hadn’t lied, they would’ve still been together. So that bit got some major points down for me. But everything else was incredible.

      • Scribe says:

        Sorry he had a good reason. Mother of his child wanting him to stay silent or lose all rights to being in hus child’s life trumps girlfriend.

        • Thank you. I will never get the people who do not understand that not telling someone something (that they honestly have no right to know) is not the same as lying.

          • JC1 says:

            Er. He lied when he looked her in the eye and told her that everything was fine and nothing was going on, instead of telling the truth and saying “yes, there’s something going, but I’ve had to promise not to talk to anyone about it, not even you. I’m sorry. I’ll tell you as soon as I can.” He presumably lied every time he went back to Central City to visit the kid because there was a line in one of the episodes after Felicity’s accident where it was indicated that she knew he was going to CC but obviously not the reason why, so he apparently made excuses every time.
            .
            And that’s not even getting into how he finds out that Malcolm Merlyn knows about his son and has sworn revenge, and instead of getting on the phone and getting Samantha and William somewhere safe, he comes home and asks Felicity to move the wedding up. I mean, seriously. When Malcolm Merlyn found out, the “keeping him safe” excuse went completely out the window, because you are then asking the audience to buy that it is more dangerous for Felicity to know about William than it is for Malcolm to know, and that is beyond absurd.
            .
            Plus, they’re getting married. They’re not just dating. Oliver was about to make Felicity stepmother to a child she didn’t even know existed (and keep in mind that she was supporting Oliver financially at this point) That is not right or fair.

          • Lex says:

            Let’s not forget that the majority of the time he was shuttling back and forth between Star City and Central City Felicity was either in the hospital or wheelchair-bound. This contradicts all the speeches Oliver and Felicity gave each other about marriage being a partnership; Oliver specifically said he wanted William to be part of his life with Felicity.
            .
            Let’s pretend William didn’t get kidnapped. Let’s pretend Oliver and Felicity got married as planned. One year into their marriage Samantha decides “hey, Oliver really has changed! Let’s let him go ahead and co-parent William!” So one day Oliver goes home to Felicity, his *wife*, and says “hey, btw I have a kid I haven’t mentioned up until now. I know discussing children is a crucial part of establishing a marriage, but I wasn’t allowed to tell you because I put more faith into a one-night stand than your discretion. So, let’s go get the guest bedroom set up!”
            .
            Yeah. Lies of omission are still lies.

          • JC1 says:

            Also, I will never get the “no right to know” argument. Maybe someone could make that argument at the time he made the promise, but as soon as they got engaged, she absolutely had a right to know. I can think of absolutely no justification whatsoever for someone to get married without disclosing to the person that they are marrying that they have a child, even if that child is not currently living with them. I just can honestly not even wrap my brain around this argument.

          • Sara says:

            Tell me how you would react if you found out that the man/woman you were weeks away from marrying had a child, had learned about that child while you were together, lied to you regularly when they went to visit the child (and this took place while you were in hospital, then adjusting to a very different life), and proposed to you not one but twice?
            SERIOUSLY, for the love of god, put yourself in those shoes and tell me you wouldn’t feel an intense and overwhelming sense of betrayal, perpetrated by the person you love most in the world, just as you were about to make vows and a commitment for life.(And the danger to William became a nonsensical justification as soon as Malcolm knew, not to mention Damien.)

          • Michelle says:

            Shippers never logic

          • Jen Ingram says:

            Maybe because we live in the real world, that’s why. Obviously you aren’t married or, if you are, you probably won’t be married for long because if my husband/fiance had a secret child that is 100% my business.

            I think the thing you people don’t understand is what marriage is. I’m not talking about the hearts and flowers parts of it, I’m talking about the real world definition of marriage. Marriage is a civil partnership that incorporates two separate people into a legally binding contract in which they become one legal entity sharing all assets and liabilities. They are no longer two separate people but one person which is why people have pre-nups and, depending on your state, you have to deal with either community property laws or equitable property laws.

            Marriage also impacts inheritance issues, custody, child support, etc. Let’s say Oliver died and Felicity did not know William existed. They combined all of their assets, their bank accounts, everything, Suddenly Samantha shows up at the funeral with a court order asking for half of Oliver’s estate which also happens to also be Felicity’s money. While I’m sure she’d have no problem with providing for his child, imagine losing your husband then having to face that? I’ve actually seen this happen in real life and it’s a mess.

            Also, how do you think William will feel when he gets old enough to understand that Oliver is his father but he never told his wife or his other children about his existence? Do you honestly think that Samantha, a woman who had unprotected sex with a billionaire she did not know then accepted a $2 million dollar payday (Yes, Arrow Writers, it was two million, not one) to lie to him about losing the baby then threatened to withhold custody and visitation (again, would never fly in real life) would tell her son that she’s the one who came up with that crap? Or, do you think the more likely scenario is that, in order to score points with her son, she would lie and say that Oliver was ashamed of them and hid them from his ‘new’ family on purpose?

            Marriage is a legal institution, people. You can love all day long and shack up but marriage is business. When you enter into a legal contract, and this is a legal contract, that combines all of your assets and liabilities then you are obligated BY LAW to disclose all of this information to your partner. If you don’t then the marriage is invalid and your spouse can sue for divorce on the grounds of fraud.

            Now I realize that this is a superhero show and not real life but the guy writing this stuff is a lawyer. Obviously he should know this so why they haven’t had Dig or someone else slap Oliver upside the head and point this out is beyond me. Even Amell has said NUMEROUS TIMES that Felicity was 100% right to leave and any woman who stayed with a man who kept that from her is insane. The fact that you people are playing the blame game here isn’t just unfair, it’s dangerous, because it demonstrates your willful ignorance and underscores a deeper misogyny within both this community and the world.

            For instance, do you know why engagement rings exist? It’s not to show your love, that’s for sure. Once upon a time women were not allowed to own property, control their own money, or even have custody of their children. The only thing that was theirs was their jewelry so if a man decided to up and leave her and his kids then that was the only thing she had to keep her afloat. People emphasize how much a man should spend on the ring because, should the worst happen, a woman can sell it and live for a few months on that money in order to support herself and her children.

            Romance is great, I’ve been married for fifteen years and I love my husband, but you do not do this stuff to your partner–and before you argue that they weren’t married yet; they were cohabiting, had a marriage licence, booked a venue, and the invitations were out. She found out less than a couple of weeks before the wedding that all this had happened and that he’d been sneaking off regularly to visit his son and lying about it by saying he was working with Barry while she was recovering from being paralyzed.

            If you still think that after all that she’s the bad guy for saying ‘no’ and walking out then you’re either an idiot or just looking for an excuse to hate because no one, man or woman, should ever stay with a partner who could so easily make this kind of a choice to leave them out of the loop.

            Lastly, if you want to argue that Oliver was just following the wishes of the mother of his child in order to preserve his right to see his son, Samantha was a one night stand who knowingly had unprotected sex with him and who knew he was in a committed relationship with another woman hence her apology to Laurel. She never acknowledged his engagement to Felicity in that apology, btw, and she took money in order to lie to him. Go back to season 3 and rewatch the scene and you’ll note Moira gave her two checks, both for a million dollars, with one payable immediately and one for after the baby was born. She only showed him one uncashed check meaning that she cashed the other one yet failed to tell him about it. This woman then, in a panic, lied again to his face and claimed he wasn’t his son until he pulled out the DNA evidence. She then tried to gain the upper hand through threats, none of which would’ve stood up in court. If Oliver wanted to, he could’ve gotten full physical custody of William then and there and she would be given supervised visitation, if that.

            You also have to consider that, while he kept this knowledge from Felicity, the woman he loved and who had his back for years, who kept and preserved his secrets, and who he was about to marry, he shared that information with Barry, probably his team as well since they would have to cover for him in case Felicity called to locate him or ask if they needed help, Thea, and Malcolm Merlyn; the man who sank their boat leading to this nightmare in the first place, who tried to kill him on numerous occasions, who blackmailed and threatened his mother and sister, who murdered 503 people including his son, who brainwashed and drugged his own daughter to kill Sara for no other reason than to have blackmail material against Oliver in order to save his own ass, and whose hand Oliver cut off.

            That guy was allowed to know William existed but Felicity wasn’t.

            Now tell me Oliver was right.

          • Lex says:

            Always good to hear from you Jen.

        • Liz says:

          I only half agree. The fact is he should have told Felicity the truth the moment Malcolm knew. And even more so when Thea found out. The secret was no longer a secret and the woman he planned to marry (thus making her William’s step-mom) deserved to know. He still lied, regardless of the intentions. Sorry.

        • Neza says:

          I am sorry but the woman you love and plan to marry trumps the mother of your child you once hooked up with it is just that simple.

          Besides he could have just as easily lied to Samantha and not tell her that he told Felicity ( I am not saying he should have done that just saying that he could have).

          At the end of the day Samantha wold have never had to find out Oliver lied to her but there was no way Felicity wouldn’t have eventually find out the truth.

          You can’t expect some to marry you after laying to them about not having any children. That relationship / marriage was doomed from the second Oliver decided to lie to Felicity and their break up was only a matter of time (the second Felicity found out they had to break up).

          I love Olicity and I truly hope that they can get back together but that shouldn’t happen until Oliver realizes that you can’t lie to the person you love it is just that simple.

          I hated the fact that Felicity took the blame for the break up because I don’t thing that she did anything wrong. It is perfectly reasonable to dump the fiancee that lied to you about having a kid.

        • kath says:

          Samantha had no legal or moral right to tell Oliver that he couldn’t tell anyone or she wouldn’t let him see William.
          .
          Any court would have granted Oliver access in a heartbeat. She lied to Oliver for all of William’s life
          A One Night Stand continuous liar doesn’t trump fiance.

          This was such a ridiculous plotline for Felicity . (It would have made some sense if Laurel were still the love interest because she was the one Oliver cheated on to create William.)
          I hope we never have to see William again after this season.

          • Angelfan says:

            Which is why I fault the writers. Samantha apologizes to Laurel (establishing her as a character who knows right from wrong) but then contradicts that by blackmailing Oliver into not telling his fiancee. (Obviously wrong). Contrived.

        • Neza says:

          Except that the mother in question doesn’t really get a say in the matter. There is such a thimg as parental rights. You can’t just forbid a father from seeing his son for no reason.

          On the other hand of anything happened to Samantha as the kid’s stepmpther Felicity would have to help raise him so she had every right to know about him

      • Lizzie says:

        I didn’t take it as her taking the blame for the breakup. I thought she apologized for just walking out and not talking to him. They never worked through the problem. She got the ability to walk and left. However misguided his actions were, she didn’t stick around to hear him out. To me, that’s why she said sorry.

    • Elizabeth says:

      Can I draw hearts around that first paragraph? Because BLESS.

    • kath says:

      I think if Felicity had said that she understood why he lied to her, rather than she understood why he had to lie to her, it would have made it much more palatable.
      =
      It would have meant that she understood his mind set rather than she agreed with it.

  17. Best of the season, and the fields have been watered with the sweet, sweet tears of the Olicity haters, so all the better. ;)

    • Lex says:

      Let the land now be fruitful and bear the offspring of this union. Amen.

    • Michael Haynes says:

      Olicity haters are a weird bunch.

    • Liz says:

      I have to admit I’m chuckling over the fact that the haters thought this episode would bury Olicity for good and yet this episode heavily implied they’re definitely getting back together at some point, be it the end of this season or next season. But they’re not over by a long shot, lol.

  18. Stacey says:

    Excellent episode. Loved that Oliver and Felecity had a much needed conversation. It really cleared the air and gave us a good narrative about why they actually broke up. There is no doubt that they will get back together before long. That flash back was crazy hot, those two have amazing chemistry! Also, loved Dig and Lyla working out their issues. Nice to see some mature discussions, hope the last few episodes are just as good!

  19. Neza says:

    I am getting a bit tired of them using the kidnapping story line with people I have zero interest in. First it was Susan now William.
    There are just no stakes for me here I could not have cared less if Susan died and I can’t care less about what happens to William and Samantha.
    I barely know these characters and and have zero stakes in weather they live or die.
    Do they really expect us to care abut these people if so than I am sorry but I just don’t. If anything I would have proffered if Susan died(hated her after pulling that stunt on Thea), and I won’t be shedding any tears if Samantha dies (she is just simply the worst #RIPOlicity)

  20. Neza says:

    Felicity should not have taken the blame for the break up that was all Oliver and seeing her do that pissed me off. He had no excuse for lying and she had every right to know that by marrying him she was gonna become a stepmother.
    It is perfectly reasonable to break up with the fiancee who lies abut something that big, and seeing the writers (and fans) excuse these lies makes me really worried abut the state of relationships in the world.
    I can’t even imagine marrying a man who lied to me abut something this important.
    Maybe I am crazy but saying that Felicity was at fault for breaking up with Oliver after that big of a lie makes absolutely zero sense to me.

  21. Wezza says:

    Boring again. im done with this show

  22. oke says:

    This episode has been the best so far! Tums up writers u did a macnifcent job and this coming from me who didn’t care for Oliver nd Felicity’s relationship at all. Now I see differently. Job very well done.

  23. partisan says:

    Just a sidebar, is Vigilante not a thing anymore? Since the reveal that he’s not Chase he’s just disappeared and not been spoken of. Is that it? Is he gone?

  24. Michael Haynes says:

    This episode has been a great highlight. I don’t know I feel about the first half of the season it lacked depth. Just so glad to see it rise again. It may be because the show is finally back to focusing on John, Felicity and Oliver Queen. Those three are the ones that make that show. Everyone else floats around their orbit.

  25. CurlyGurly says:

    Any episode with the salmon ladder always rules! LOL. Seriously though, one of the best episodes of the season, felt like the “old” Arrow again.

  26. darkn3ss says:

    Okay now they have have had the talk bring us Olicity 2.0 we want to see them back together in a mature and communication enable relationship.

    • Michael Haynes says:

      yes, I hate the will they/won’t they. I want a full adult relationship. Be nice for once, too see a full committed hero couple on TV especially a network show like CW.

  27. So green Batman and Batgirl ripoff are back together

  28. Dominique says:

    this was a really good episode! proof that if the writers try, they can actually create some amazing character-driven episodes mixed with some plot-driven stuff.
    the conversations between oliver and felicity, both present and in the flashbacks, were beautifully done. both admitted to doing things wrong, felicity finally understood and saw that oliver didn’t have a choice in not telling her about william. and oliver finally loosened up a little and hopefully realized his future path is not all dark and doom like chase would have him believe. terrific episode.

  29. Brenna says:

    As a long time Arrow fan and Oliver and Felicity fan, I loved this episode! The elevator shaft stunt with both of them and Diggle was awesome! The scenes were really well written with heart! That’s why its disappointing when they have episodes that completely hurt how you see the characters. Prometheus has been great this season and the action scenes wonderful. I really like Dinah as BC. Now if they can just continue Oliver’s growth as a hero and show caring and trust with Oliver and Felicity I’ll be a happy viewer! Although I don’t want them immediately in a romantic relationship, I really can’t see Oliver ‘s future with anyone else.

  30. The Carpooler says:

    Great episode all around! Great chemistry and depth of story with Oliver and Felicity. THAT was a long time coming, I hope they continue to rebuild.
    I laughed out loud when Oliver got the adrenaline shot, or rather his reaction to it. Well done.
    And, extra bonus for a Beastmaster reference.

  31. kath says:

    This was a filler episode — in that it filled in gaps that have been huge holes in the show since the start of the season. Too bad it took 20 episodes to get there.
    Still, well done in terms of Diggle and Lyla showing the adult way to settle a problem, Curtis, Dinah and Rene as the B team getting B time, and of course Oliver and Felicity finally, finally talking as adults.
    I’ll take it. Bring on the finale.

  32. leejay29 says:

    I may have cheered when the salmon ladder made an appearance.

  33. Love this episodes, one of my favorites of the whole series!! I just didn’t like that they made Felicity apologize a bit too much for a totally understandable decision, and all the logical parkour it requires to accept that the Olicity they showed in the flasbacks ended up with seriously forgetable new love interests that nobody cared about haha Overall, I think an A- is good, and would have been an A+ if not for the last minute or so. Also, how is William still talking to strangers???

  34. Charley says:

    I definitely enjoyed the VERY well written and mature conflict resolution/communications between the Diggles and Olicity.
    I also loved the entertaining and overdue adorkable Curtis back….missed him!
    (‘those two will make a great couple one day”…AWESOME dialogue surprise, and did not feel canned!)
    I wish there had been more of a ‘presence’ from creepy wild-eyed Chase in the bunker…a taunting phone call, note, video…anything… I felt the absence of that interaction.
    As a viewer, it is so rare to see such palpable chemistry like between Amell and Rickards…because it is something that can not be scripted, contrived, inserted or implied…it is just THERE….or it isn’t….and almost never to that extent….whew! (fanning motion)
    And when it is… it feels like a surprise gift to me. the viewer, or something I won!
    So thank you for that Arrow PTB!
    They certainly left everything teed up for some amazing final episodes….fingers crossed!!!

  35. Fosho says:

    Ahhhmaazing!!!! I’m not a mindless action fan. Gimme character development and emotional drama all day everyday and then you can blow up crap.

  36. simoun says:

    First episode of Arrow I’ve seen in a long time that really made me care about the entire team again and made Felicity and Oliver relatable and human. Season 5 has really been a lot better than Season 4 (a little bit hit and miss with some episodes). I really hope that Season 6 is the last season and that they end things properly.