The Flash Recap: Reverse Decision — Plus, a Major New Zoom Clue?

This Tuesday on The CW’s The Flash, Barry dealt with a most unexpected visit from an old foe, Cisco felt extra-good vibrations, Patty used her noodle and an unfortunate event united the Wests.

YELLOW, IT’S ME | Upon arriving in our time, Eobard Thawne sought out Mercury Labs’ Christina McGee, for the purpose of using her tachyon tech to get back to the future. (How is he alive? Because this marks Eobard’s first trip back in time, so he had not yet become the Nora-killer who got “erased” in the Season 1 finale. Time remnants, people!) Cisco meanwhile aspires to fine-tune his “vibing” ability, which Harry solved by deducing that an adrenaline rush triggers it. Harry jerry-rigs a snazzy visor for Cisco to use, and when he does he is able to observe the time that Eobard eventually kills McGee — almost four hours from now. More on that in a few paragraphs….

MOM’S THE WORD | When Joe delivers the-flash-season-2-photos (3)the sad news that Francine’s battle with cancer is about to end, Iris goes to her estranged mother’s bedside. There, Iris shares her only regret: that when she reflects on childhood memories, she wishes her mom and brother had been a part of them. Iris says her mother should have resurfaced sooner, seeing as “I would have forgiven you then, just like I’m forgiving you now.” When Francine longs to have the whole family reunited before she passes, Iris reaches out to Wally, but he’s “busy” — meaning angry, that his sister and father were a secret to him all this time. Iris tells him about Eddie, the fiance suddenly taken from her, using the tale to illustrate the importance of saying a proper goodbye when you can. Eventually, Wally shows up at Iris’ doorstep, asking if she’ll go with him to see Francine a last time.

TWIN PIQUED | Caitlin shares with Barry the news that Jay is dying, and suggests they track down his Earth-One doppelganger to get some healthy DNA to transfuse, or something. Barry, though, comes up empty in finding our Jay. Apprised of the search, Jay takes Caitlin to the park to point out his counterpart — bespectacled Hunter Zolomon, who apparently was adopted and raised under a different name.  Alas, since the speedster process mutated Jay’s DNA, Hunter is of no value — though his DC Comics origin story sure makes one’s mind go… zoom.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE | When Barry lets slip that he and Joe help out the S.T.A.R. Labs peeps now and again, Patty gets curious — and uses her detective skills to realize that many of Barry’s cases 1) involve The Flash and 2) have details the CSI could not possibly have known. She confronts Joe, but Joe keeps mum. And even when she asks Barry point-blank — saying that if he ‘fesses up, she will stay in Central City! — he holds firm with a denial, even if taking that stance leaves her in tears. “It would have been nice to fight crime by day and be with you at night,” she laments, leaving. At episode’s end, Patty rings Barry from her train to Midway City, saying something about a gunman. The Flash races to the scene… and is summarily busted by the false alarm. (Not Patty’s best moment, by any means. Ugh.) Having confirmed and seemingly understanding the need for his secret, she assures, “Everything’s good” as they finally (kind of awkwardly?) part ways.

BACK… TO THE FUTURE! | Once CiscoReverse Flash Returns tracks down an activated tachyon gizmo, Barry races to the scene to stop Eobard from killing Christina. A chase ensues, but The Flash catches up to his evil opposite and whales on him good. (Joe in fact has to intervene, to avert a murder!) But after Reverse-Flash is locked up in the Pipeline, Cisco’s nosebleeds get worse and he begins seizing and phasing away, Marty McFly’s parents-style. Harry deduces that it’s because they affected the timeline by capturing Thawne, and thus must release him and get him back to his future. Begrudgingly, Barry sets his mother’s killer free, then combines their speed to catapult Thawne to whence he came, instantly reviving Cisco.

What did you think of “The Reverse-Flash Returns”?

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Phoenix5634 says:

    Awesome episode! So much happened this episode, loved it!
    Hunter Zolomon + Harry’s work on the computer with the Turtles sample and what I’m guessing is his Velocity formula, enter the templor speedster!

  2. James says:

    Barry turned into an asshole really quickly, didn’t he? I can’t believe he is acting like the victim now, when he forced Patty to make the decision to go away! It was really sad how they ended their relationship. They went from cute & funny to completely awkward to see.

    • James says:

      And then he didn’t want to save Cisco at first because he was still mad at Eobard Thawne! Lately, Barry has been acting like a jerk, honestly. I mean I understand why he hates Eobard, but it was Cisco’s life on the line! Come on!

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      Barry just really doesn’t/ didn’t want her to know becuz with the threat of Zoom hanging over him. Hes afraid of Zoom. Zoom broke his spine and publicly humilated him to the entire city, plus he knows Zoom is like four times faster and will kill anyone Barry loves if he wants to motivate him. He feels powerless and just doesn’t want to put her in harms way.
      Is it really sad to see their relationship end. Barry and Patty really do have great chemistry.

    • Badpenny says:

      Barry is a guy: you sleep with them and then you dump them. :)

  3. Dan says:

    I noticed at the end that Cisco asked for “two triple triples” from big belly burger. …does that actually mean 18 patties?!

  4. Mik says:

    I’m GLAD Patty is gone. That stunt she pulled at the end was UNCALLED FOR. He doesn’t want to tell you, so you’re going to FORCE him to tell you? Please just don’t come back.

    The stuff with Iris and Francine was great, I wish we could have seen Iris and Wally visiting Francine in the hospital, but I guess that time was needed to watch Patty stalk Barry (sorry if I sound bitter I was just expecting more out of this ep).

    The RF explanation was confusing. And I really need them to stop almost killing Cisco.

    • Gemma says:

      I’m sorry but you sound like a hater.

      • Badpenny says:

        In all fairness it just feels like the Patty story was added just for some emotional angst: let’s get a hot dorky woman for Barry to fall for and then have her leave half way through the season. All the drama from these superhero tv shows comes from never getting the love. Heck, 8 of Smallville’s seasons were entirely about that. Look at Arrow – who has had a thing with all 3 of the non-related women. Look at the brand new Supergirl with all 3 young guys in show now. It is what it is.

      • dancmh says:

        You sound like someone who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is a hater.

    • Gemma says:

      I didn’t particularly care for Patty but she isn’t nearly as bad as some of you Iris people claim.

      • Jordan_Strummer says:

        I didn’t mind Patty until tonight; didn’t like the character but certainly didn’t hate her. But that final stunt she pulled was so totally obnoxious that I’m not upset to see her go

        • Gemma says:

          I hated that – such an asshole move. What exactly was she trying to prove? She already figured out (brilliantly I might add) that Barry was The Flash.

          • Jordan_Strummer says:

            I’m sure it was meant to be an “innocent” gotcha but it sure did feel like her forcing him to confirm it just so she knew she was right

          • sporting4231 says:

            Really? She broke down a barrier between them. She confirmed he cares about her. She broke it off because she was shut out and didn’t think he cared. She cares about him and he knows it because she’s leaving and giving him what he wants. I don’t think we’re done with Patty. I think she’s a meta, something to do with her eyesight. I think she will be the key to figuring out Zoom. I wonder if she is going away not for school but to figure out what is going on with her eyesight. I like Patty and Barry and I hope she comes back. She gives him a secret ally Zoom doesn’t know about which could be critical in the end.

        • Mik says:

          Thank you, Jordan

        • Mak says:

          Yeah I can’t believe I have been defending Patty all this while…then she pulls off this effing effed up! move..I’m quite pissed off actually..hope she stays away for gud!

      • Mik says:

        You call me a hater and the respond to the same comment two separate times. Okay. But it looks like we agree that the stunt she pulled at the end was uncalled for, so let’s just agree to disagree on whatever else because Patty was a waste of screentime all season.

        • Gemma says:

          That she was. Cannot be denied.

          • Never warmed to the Patty plot line. To me, she was just an excuse for Barry to have a non-incestuous lover (sorry, but while I like Iris’ character and the actress is quite good, I just get the heebie jeebies about her ever hooking up with Flash). And Patty’s need to “have the final word” and “one-up” Barry at the end closed any desire (which was almost intangible anyway) to ever see her character on the show again in the future. Overall, I thought this episode was probably the weakest one ever, and not just because of the Pity-Patty stuff. I don’t understand how the Reverse Flash is a totally different character than Cavanaugh’s portrayal of the character last season. I wonder what’s going on with Earth-2’s Flash during all this stuff on Earth-1. Shouldn’t the Earth-2 Flash be confronting Zoom also? And not being well-versed in the comic book mythology, I sure hope that either the Wally West character begins to show more sides than just being angry and immature.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      I see that call trick at the end as more a playful “I knew it”, if I was Barry I probably would have smirked like “ok ya caught me, good one” lol. Pretty sure Barry did kind of smirk too. It was sad that that they just parted ways at the end, but it definitely left the door open for them.

      And Iris, when Barry wouldn’t tell her for her own safety, Iris decided to just shut Barry out of her life.

      • Mik says:

        Lies and fallacies. Iris never shut Barry out of her life, he distanced himself.

      • Emily says:

        You’re hilarious. When Iris asked Barry for honesty, he dumped her. You don’t remember this show much at all, do you?

        • Phoenix5634 says:

          How could Barry dump her, they were never going out. Barry wished they were, but Iris decided to “distance” herself from Barry and in the process married someone else. And the moment Iris felt Barry was hiding something ( that he was the Flash ) she stopped being normal around Barry.

          • Radha says:

            Dumped as in dumped his best friend. Pretty sure they didn’t mean literally with that.

          • Phoenix5634 says:

            Yes that’s what Iris did, dump her best friend, becuz he wouldn’t tell her a secret that could endanger her life.

      • aura says:

        Revisionist, I want to see those receipts. Iris was upset that her BFF who has always believed in the impossible was suddenly being vague and distant and keeping things from her, he was also not willing to let her share with CC the truth that the impossible that he talked about all his life was real, when she confronted him, to divulge why he was acting so distant, Barry gave her the ultimatum to stop or they cant be friends anymore, but I guess you and I were watching different shows right. Ill go even further once she found out in Ep 20 that he indeed was the flash (instead of publicly trying to out him with a false alarm she confronted him straight away, they had their little argument and rightly so then surprise surprise she helps him overcome GRODD’s mind control and saves his life but again you and I must me watching different shows. I’m not mad you trying to defend your fave though you do you.

    • KCC says:

      I liked Patty and she was necessary to the development of Barry. Hopefully he learned the lesson: if he wants to have a romantic relationship with someone he has to be honest with her about the Flash. He should have learned that from his estrangement from Iris before she knew his secret. Keeping his Flash identity secret from someone he’s close to will, at some point, ruin that relationship.
      I think Patty’s ploy at the end was perfectly alright. It gave her some certainty about why Barry was being such a d*** and she better understood his motive. If Barry just told her flat out and explained he cares for her too much to risk the potential danger she’s in by being associated to him, she wouldn’t have done it. His pretense of not telling her for her own good is self-serving. Patty knowing Barry is the Flash would not put her life in danger. It’s someone finding out Barry/Flash has feelings for her that poises the threat. If Zoom were to kill Patty to punish the Flash, it wouldn’t matter if she knows Barry is the Flash or not. It only matters that Barry/Flash has feelings for her and Zoom (or any bad guy) knowing that as well. As for someone trying to find out Flash’s identity from Patty, it would be safer for her, but not Barry, if she knew. If she were abducted and tortured by someone trying to find out the Flash’s identity because they thought she knew, they wouldn’t stop torturing her just because she told them she doesn’t know. They would assume she’s lying. If anything it would be worse for her than if she just told them “Oh yeah, Barry Allen is the Flash.” At least then they might let her go.
      It always bothers me when a show’s “hero” keeps information from someone on the pretense of “keeping them safe” when most times it’s not the information that’s the problem/danger. It’s the knowledge that a person is important to the hero that put them in potential danger.

      • Paul monks says:

        thankyou!!!!! At last a comment written by someone with the mental and emotional capacity to understand what patty did was fine. she needed to know for her own peace of mind, and for Barry to now know for sure that she knew and was ok with it. All these comments about her being “sneaky” etc are obviously from people who have never had a proper relationship. (possibly teenagers and kids) So thanks again for speaking some sense :)

    • Preacher Book says:

      Patty strikes me as a woman who doesn’t like to be wrong. Thus, she had to find out for sure about her theory and her trick confirmed her hypothesis. I thought it a bit clever. I understand the need for narrative tension in a TV series, but this kinda of thing isn’t helping society. People need to take some chances in their relationships. If they end, they end. Be hurt but go on. Don’t be afraid of the hurt so much that you never try for the good. Chances must be taken. The ending of Patty/Barry felt forced but it ended with respect (and just a hint of dickishness on both parties.)

  5. AVeryConfusedFan says:

    Is it just me or does the RF explanation still make no sense? Like Eddie killed himself so he wouldn’t have a timeline so no matter what “future” Eobard is from he shouldn’t exist, period. Right?

    If this-Eobard comes from a future before he kills Nora, does that mean he also comes from a past where Eddie never killed himself?

    • Simon says:

      Woah I didn’t think about that. I wish they’d simplified it by saying he came from Earth-2 or something. Now I’m confused too.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      Ha, it made all the sense in the world for the 20 seconds that Harry was drawing on the chalkboard. But now, an hour later, I’m lost again.

      • AVeryConfusedFan says:

        Yeah, I understood it for only that amount of time before scratching my head now.

      • Gemma says:

        So I wasn’t the only one who got lost after Harry explained what each circle represented. Cool.

        • James says:

          Simply put, Eobard came to an alternate timeline where he didn’t knew his entire bloodline starting from Eddie no longer exists. Add to the fact that he’s a speedster, he protected himself and his timeline from being erased (or else he would not have killed Nora to kickstart the show in the first place).

      • Jordan_Strummer says:

        I think Wells had a throwaway line about Thawne using the speed force to shield his timeline from being erased, which was why they’re all still the same versions of the characters from season 1

      • herman1959 says:

        Sorry, chalkboard or not, it did not make sense. And while I’m at it, I have to question the fact that it didn’t dawn on Caitlin, Barry, or Cisco that Jay’s DNA had been changed making it impossible to match. And, that cheap trick that Patty pulled…please.

      • Kim R says:

        Yes! It made total sense on the chalkboard….and then the questions started. :(

        • paul says:

          that Eobard was in a time vortex when Eddie killed himself and so he was protected by the speed force and time vortex. The whole multiple time dimensions comes into play. so at one moment in time, every other moment in the rest of time is happening all at once. so if that Eobard is in a time vortex he doesn’t exist with all the other Eobards at every other time period, so when those eobards get erased, the time vortex Eobard still exists! I would be able to explain it better with a drawing lol just think of it as a Big ball of Wibbily Wobbly, Timey Wimey, Stuff! ;)

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      It’d all make sense clearly if E2 Eddie got stuck on E1. Or if Eobard came from E2. In the future he just got sent to, he should meet Vandal Savage now.

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        Eobard is from 2151, I thiiiiink? Vandal conquers Earth in 2166?

        • Phoenix5634 says:

          Im not 100% on the time period Eobard came from either, but I know it’s really close. I want to rewatch the episode where they talk about that.

          • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

            Eobard said last season that he won’t be born for another 136 years. Which now that I think about it means he’s 40something Matt Letscher in 2191 or so — after Vandal Savage rains fire on Earth. Oops.

        • Phoenix5634 says:

          A quick web search revealed Eobard was born in 2151, but he’s clearly like 30 or 40, and he stated that Oliver Queen dies in 2171. Which means yes, he’s from a time period after Vandal Savage reigns… Hmm interesting, I’ll have to work that into my theorizing.

          • Phoenix5634 says:


          • herman1959 says:

            So, evidently, the Legends mission was accomplished (Earth was saved from destruction) – I don’t have to watch now.

          • Phoenix5634 says:

            Clearly, the good side always wins on TV. Could say that about any show/movie. But it’s the how that’s always so interesting.

          • herman1959 says:

            I’m watching 5 comic-book shows now (including Agent Carter), I need to drop 1.

          • Phoenix5634 says:

            Haha yeah I hear ya on that, I watch 4 now. I like the DC TV shows better than the Marvel ones, which I rarely if ever watch. I already really like Legends of Tomorrow

    • jrex says:

      This timey-whimmy stuff always makes people confused. Just go with the flow and enjoy.

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        A comics-savvy reader pretty accurately speculated the explanation this morning, so… it must have a legit foundation in canon. Knickers need not get in knots.

        • herman1959 says:

          Sorry, Matt, I have to stick up for jrex. That time remnants explanation was pretty flimsy. If we’re going to be undoing deaths, we may as well get Eddie back.

        • jrex says:

          Just to clarify stuff like this happens all the time in comics. I’m perfectly willing to go along with the explanation as given until someone comes up with something better.

    • James says:

      Well, yeah. There is also a point in the past where Eddie was alive. Time is not linear, I guess. That’s why a lot of things can happen at the same time… But I’m just guessing, ha.

    • Dj says:

      I think the best way to sum it up is its a fixed event in the timeline that can’t be changed. Because if it could then Eddie death would also stop RF from killing Barry’s mom too. RF will always exist in the timeline up until the exact moment of both he and Eddie’s death.

      • Brian Bauer says:

        Dj’s explanation is great. Eobard was “wiped from reality” but everything he did until that point still happened. The main characters (and the audience) are now reaching the point in time where Eobard first travels through time and meets Barry.

    • Julian says:

      I’ll go with what Rip Hunter said on LoT: “Time is a circle and some things just have to happen”, like Aldus dying. Maybe The Reverse Flash HAS to travel through time in order to Barry to become The Flash.

      Plus… Am I the only one who thinks that Jay/Hunter could be Zoom?

      • Phoenix5634 says:

        I like Rip’s explanation of Linear time. It’s all relative, time isn’t linear, but to the human perpective it is, it’s all relative…. It’s like how humanity thought the world was flat, basically linear, until we had better understanding of it.

      • Dj says:

        I feel like watching Doctor Who. There is always an explanation in it that makes since. I’ll just go with It’s Beethoven’s Fifth.

    • Muhammad Hamza Aslam says:

      I Think it is a plot for future seasons where eddie shows up again and have a family and kids otherwise it wouldn’t make sense as to how eobard thawne came into existence.

    • Isabella says:

      Whoaaa thank you! I have been feeling dumb all day for not getting this. Now Eddie’s death seems so senseless

    • Paul monks says:

      that’s what I couldn’t understand ! Harry said something about Eobard being in the speed force or time vortex at the moment Eddie killed himself so didn’t get deleted but it just doesn’t ring right with me. if Eddie killed himself before Eobards birth then how can be be in the time vortex lol

  6. Skittles&Bits says:

    I was with Patty up until the end. Someone correct me if I’m wrong (I was working while watching the episode) but Patty seemed to imply she was willing to give up her dream to become a CSI to moonlight as a superhero’s girlfriend. Huh. Then she calls Barry with a false alarm on the train to what? Prove to herself that she was right? Try to get him to reveal himself on a crowded train? I’m so disappointed in the direction the writers took her at the end. I was 100% on her side (she really was an *amazing* gf) until her last two scenes with Barry. Also, what’s up with Jay’s doppel being Hunter Zolomon? Does this mean Jay in E1 is Zoom? I loved the Iris/Wally scenes this episode. I had to slow clap for Ms. West when she told Wally off. I really just adore the West family. I’m glad Iris got closure with her mom; maybe now she’ll get closure from Eddie. E2!Wells explanation of Thawne’s continued existence made no sense to me. Would it have been simpler to say that E2 Eddie Thawne is still alive so E2 Eobard Thawne is still alive; E1 Eobard died because E1 Eddie shot himself? And for the love of all that’s good can Star Labs invest in some surveillance??? How is it that no one is questioning Turtle’s mysterious death???

    • Badpenny says:

      She is a detective and she wanted closure. One phone call gave her the answer Barry was too chicken to say. This way she can understand why he will not commit to her. Getting closure is actually rare in TV shows, and is a good thing, IMO.

      • Skittles&Bits says:

        Closure or not, it was still irresponsible especially for someone in law enforcement. You don’t call a false alarm. You just don’t. Even if its to “give closure” to a relationship. It’s one thing if she had called him to her apartment but she called him out to a crowded train to what? Gaze longingly into his eyes and realize 100% that Barry is the Flash?

        • Phoenix5634 says:

          Doing that call in public was abit much, like you’re definitely right she could have done that in a better location. It would have been a lot better if was just her there at the end.

        • Badpenny says:

          You are thinking about this way too much. These are people who sit in coffee shops and talk about their secret IDs all day long where anyone can hear them, yet no one ever does. At the end of the day they needed a closure scene and so the writers thought it would be cool to do it on a train. That is all there is to it. This has nothing to do with Patty. It is all about the writers – because there is no Patty. :)

        • KCC says:

          Of all the irresponsible actions being done by the Flash and his cohorts, this one seems pretty minor. Actually he should have wondered why she was calling him, a forensic analyst, and not the actual police. She is a trained police officer, not some damsel in distress, and would know the protocol on how to handle a hostage situation. I’m fairly certain that does not include calling your ex-boyfriend.
          I don’t see being on a crowded train as being an issue. The Flash is known by pretty much everyone in Central City so seeing him on your train would just be spotting a celebrity in public. No one was endangered.
          Patty giving Barry a half minute of worry doesn’t seem that bad to me compared to the days of angst he put her through after she poured her heart out to him and he just pulled further away. To me, Barry could have handled to whole relationship better, including the ending. He still has a lot to learn.

    • Mik says:

      You are not wrong about Patty.

  7. Nick says:

    Am I the only one not really enjoying this season? I feel like this season is a lot worse than last year. I don’t really care about any of the storylines to be honest, they all feel pretty dumb. I was excited for Zoom in the first few episodes but now I feel like it’s a surprise if he makes an appearance, & if he does it’s like a 1 minute cameo(essentially doing nothing). I hated this episode because it literally did nothing- brought Reverse Flash back, gave Barry a partial sense of closure, then ripped it away. It felt like a filler episode. Next week with some lava guy looks the same. I just don’t like this season as much as last cause I know nothing about Zoom! They did a great job of teasing out the Reverse Flash storyline/mystery last year, but have done a terrible job of the Zoom mystery. Even in the past few weeks I was still at least entertained by the Flash & it kept my focus. This week I was on my phone pretty much the whole episode. Am I the only one who’s frustrated with this season???

  8. James D says:

    good episode. I always love watching Matt Leitner. I will say I thought how they handled Patty’s exit very awkward and jarring it just felt forced to me. other than that I enjoyed the episode.

  9. Emily says:

    I’m glad Patty has closure, so that the real story can start. Iris and Cisco’s storylines stole my heart this week!

  10. Lysh says:

    I’m a WestAllen fan, but I really liked Patty. She’s cute, but not quirky, and smart but not a scientist/computer genius. I was hoping she’d become Ms Flash or whatever she is in the comics. I wanted Barry to tell her properly instead of her finding out. And I was hoping he’d admit to it instead of making her cry. Like, that was an Oliver Queen move. It seemed so out of character.

  11. Phoenix5634 says:

    It’s kind of funny, the reason Eobard hates Barry is becuz at some point during Eobards origin, when he first got his powers, the first time he travelled back in time, he travelled back to meet his hero, the Flash Barry Allen, but the time he travelled to, is still in the future of what we’ve seen. ( so earliest reverse flash, met our future Barry ) and Barry hated him for the things Eobards future self as done to him, which basically turned him evil in the first place, it’s loop becuz of reverse flash’s specific ability to travel time and not be tethered by the impacts he causes.

    But it’s funny/ ironic becuz if they ever sat down and talked this all out, they would realize they’re basically fighting becuz earliest Eobard ( the one who idolized the Flash Barry Allen) and future Barry ( the one who hates Eobard ) at some point meet, and that’s like their feuds origin story.

  12. Gail says:

    How can Nora’s death be fixed place in time that can’t be changed as mentioned tonite. It didn’t originally happen. In the original timeline Barry became Flash later. It was the Reverse Flash who caused the accident that made him the Flash to happen sooner after he killed Nora and got stuck in the past. It also doesn’t make much sense that preventing the Reverse Flash from going to the past and kill Nora messes up the timeline but having Eddie kill himself to erase the Reverse Flash doesn’t. Perhaps one day they will reveal that Reverse Flash would have died that day anyway even if Eddie had not killed himself and that is why nothing changed once Reverse Flash stopped existing.

  13. herman1959 says:

    The writing has fallen short for the second episode in a row…not good. Is it possible they used all of the good stuff on the Legends spin-off, and if so, how can we fix it?

  14. KateFaulkner27 says:

    I think my comments are getting deleted somehow. Huh. If this is the 3rd time I have said the same thing, sorry.

    My theories and notes:
    1. Zoom.
    A. Not Hunter: Zoom hunted Jay for months or years, before Barry busted open the dimensional barrier. If he was from EPrime, how did he get to E2 in the first place? And why did he have problems going back when Barry messed everything up?
    B. Theory of ID: E2 Wally West. Power hungry, adrenaline junkie, alone, maybe consumed by the Speed Force. Up is down and down is up in E2, as Jay says in the promos. What’s to say there isn’t a dark side to the Speed Force, and it has its claws on Wally?
    I. Proof: EPrime Wally is a speed demon adrenaline junkie with car racing.
    Ii. Wally voluntarily has a chip on his shoulder for all the family drama. Feels he doesn’t need anyone.
    Iii. He becomes Kid Flash, then the Flash. But how, or when he does, is up in the air, and we have seen good become evil in E2 (i.e. Caitlin is Killer Frost in E2… so far, not in EPrime, not yet anyway, if ever).
    Iv. We have no proof where Wally’s counterpart was in E2. Has never been mentioned.
    3. Patty
    Patty, oh Patty. You had me at hello, but lost me at goodbye. Sigh.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      It’d be so ironic to the comics if the TV show made E2 Wally West a Black Flash ( Zoom )

      • KateFaulkner27 says:

        I KNOW… that’s what would make it fun too. Well, not fun but… you know what I mean.
        Technically, Zoom IS Black Flash: death to a speedster is no longer being able to speed, and disconnecting one from the Speed Force when you’re kind of in a symbiotic relationship with it… And Jay is literally dying without it.

        • Phoenix5634 says:

          Exactly, Zoom, I’m almost sure is a black flash, one of the trademark things of a black flash is to return the speedforce to where it came from…. And you know what’s ironic, when Zoom had Barry he brought him back to Star Labs where his speedforce quite literally came from. Before Cisco stopped him shooting him with that dart. Also the physical characteristics of Zoom are very similar to a black flash. Zoom is like a black flash with an identity and a personality, not just a reaper.

          cant wait to find out more of Hunter Zolomon, he’s going to have some good episodes.

          • KateFaulkner27 says:

            Agreed. This is going to get interesting… I want to know what happens to Hunter too, but I also wonder if this might all be a fake out from the real culprit: E2 Wally. There have been instances in both Arrow and Flash where something is introduced, but not followed through upon, until awhile later… if at all. I’m still waiting for Green Lantern, or at least maybe Star Sapphire or Zatanna or somebody… Zatanna would be cool, especially if Constantine is back!
            I am also excited to see what’s happening with the Wests. I love, love, love Joe. Jesse L. Martin and Candice Patton are the sweetest pairing ever. Throwing Wally in the mix will make them even more endearing, I think. And will make me appreciate the both of them even more. That’s not necessarily easy to play up when you already have a solid dynamic with your TV family. I can’t wait to see where that leads.

          • Phoenix5635 says:

            Yeah I agree. I’m actually wondering if Hunter Zolomon isn’t a fake out to distract us from Zooms true identity too, becuz Hunter has been a leading theory for abit now, showrunners could have added his character from the popularity they seen online. I’m really suspicious about Henry, Barry’s dad, he hasn’t been around at all basically, and the one episode he was around he made a lot of comments that could be loosely connected to Zoom having fun with words. Like the fishing comment, and the slowing things down comment, and he just seemed off. And yeah E2 Wally, based on the comics, and now TV show would make a very ironic zoom. It’d be interesting. And yes! Joe is awesome! such a great actor, and character!

            And speaking of Green Lantern, I have a feeling he will be introduced on Supergirl, if you watched yesterday’s episode, they’ll need him sooner or later. Plus it’d make most sense to have him on Supergirl, as it’s a more space related show.

          • KateFaulkner27 says:

            Though Henry’s behavior may not be typical ‘dad’ behavior, you got to remember that he just got out of a life sentence that he had served for years. When he was in jail, he had nothing to do but be there for Barry in any way he possibly can. And Joe was taking care of him. Now, knowing thay Barry is the Flash and Joe’s pretty much taken his place, Henry most likely feels like a fish out of water.
            In the beginning, Henry was a doctor, husband and dad. That’s stripped away from him when he’s accused of Nora’s death and put in prison. So, now he’s used to being an inmate, and distant supporter of his son. Now, he’s out, and he can’t be what he once was. He most likely has a settlement for wrongful imprisonment, which would be large, and a whole lot of freedom. I see his odd behavior as more like a midlife crisis thing: he’s trying to get used to so many things, and he’s not handling them well. Take Barry for example. He knew how to raise Barry when he was a kid. But he’s a grown adult now, and a superhero to boot. I’m not sure that A) Henry is ready for that, and B) Henry has any idea how to handle that. Henry is a little busy finding his own place in the world again. *
            I kind of see Henry and Barry as being on the same level now…discovering who they are, what they stand for, and finding a place in the world for them to fit.
            In other notes… at LEAST have Zatanna introduced on this side of the DC Flarrow verse. They had Constantine. She fits right in with the magic.

          • KateFaulkner27 says:

            Also… Jesse Wells is Jesse Quick. I think Harry is only working with Zoom to get her back… and then making her into a speedster to fight him with that velocity formula. But then, we’d be having 6 speedsters either on the show, or introduced this year, or hinted at, and not sure they want to add one more (Flash, reverse flash, E2 Jay, Zoom, The girl speedster who I can’t remember now, Wally hinted at).

  15. Gail says:

    Also seems odd that Flash’s identity would not have been common knowledge after he died in the time the Reverse Flash is from. Many people already know and certainly at least one will survive Barry. They could write a book.

  16. Gail says:

    I thought it was going to be revealed that Dr Wells caused Cisco to get ill as a side effect from the eye glasses and blamed the timeline to get the Reverse Flash sent home. That would be revealed as part of his plan to save his daughter.

  17. Lily says:

    I enjoyed the episode very much. I love that Patty left and on such a down note for the useless character she was. And Reverse Flash was cool, I like him as a villain better than Zoom. If Jay’s doppelganger Hunter Zolomon turns out to be Zoom than at least they finally got a useful role for Jay on the show.

  18. Gail says:

    Since Hunter Zoloman in the comics is one of people who is The Reverse Flash/ Professor Zoom, are we meant to speculate that Jay Garrick will turn out to be Zoom? Kind of like Dr Jeckle and Hyde.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      That’d be too easy. And Hunter Zolomon is not a regular speedster. He’s not a reverse flash. His powers are unique.

      When Zoom caught Barry’s lightening bolt, and next episode Henry said that line ” sometimes ya gotta slow things down to get where you want to be” … I swear there’s a connection there. I’m thinking maybe.. E1 Barry is the flash, E2 Jay is the flash, E1 Jay is Hunter Zolomon, so who’s the E2 counterpart, power-wise.

  19. Fall says:

    I like Patty and I hope she comes back. I loved that she got her closure with the flash thing but her relationship with with Barry seems unfinished.
    I also love the scenes between Wally and Iris and Cisco and Wells. And Glad Barry kicked Reverse Flash butt for a bit.

  20. Lynne says:

    I’m still trying to understand how Thawne is still alive when Eddie killed himself last season, thus preventing him from ever being born since he was a direct descendant of Eddie’s.
    I guess I’m in the minority here because I liked Patty. She was a chance for Barry to have something good in his life.
    And since I don’t read the comics, I guess this Hunter guy is someone important so off to research I go!

  21. donna says:

    Am I the only one that got confused with the whole time line thing? So does that mean Eddie died on vain?

    Onto patty. Not a great move on her part. The only reason she would have stayed is because Barry was the flash? Really chic. How,about staying because of just barry. Then she called him at the end to prove a point????really

    • gdsfssdfs says:

      no he did not die in vain. yes, reverse flash is around but if eddie did not kill himself when he did, that reverse flash would have continued to be a danger. he still did stop that particular incident.

  22. Phoenix5634 says:

    What was that last word Cisco said to Eobard when he was in the cell?

  23. parstl says:

    I’m sorry to see Patty go. I think she had real chemistry with Barry until tonight…the writers really scripted an ackward end. The character as she was developed so far would not have pulled that stunt. I think the writers were trying to make her less likable on purpose. At least we see why they stopped dating. They didn’t tell us why Barry stopped dating Linda last season. I felt like they tried to jam too much into this episode but it was nice to see Iris get some decent dialogue. I know if I read the comics I would understand it more but the whole Earth Two thing is getting a bit confusing and making the storyline a bit disjointed. All that said, I think it is still one of the most entertaining shows on tv.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      I feel like Patty’s storyline was rushed, becuz right out the gates Iris fans have been bashing her for basically no other reason than stealing Iris’s screen time. But they sure have came up with plenty irrational reasons to hate her.

      • Michelle says:

        Honestly I think Patty was added because of all that westallen and snowbarry ship wars.

        Personally, I wasn’t a Patty fan because she came off just like Felicity but without the fun and frankly, it wasn’t needed. The writers could have done a lot better but chose to phone it in it seemed. Especially at her exit.

      • aura says:

        You need to give it a rest. Her storyline was rushed because she was contracted for TEN episodes and there was a lot of story to tell in that period. If Iris fans had so much control over how the Patty storyline played out she WOULDNT have lasted for TEN episodes. I hope you were that concerned about all the Iris haters on all these boards last year (and who still persist to this day) who you tried and continue to erase Iris and her importance to the Flash mythos because “she didn’t look right with Barry” ” she has no chemistry with Barry” “What is her point in the narrative etc etc etc . My guess is you weren’t concerned at all.

        • Michelle says:

          And with comments like yours, people aren’t going to ever like the Iris character. Give it a rest.

          • aura says:

            What sort of response is that, the poster I replied to states as fact that a character they liked was rushed off the show by apparent fans. I rightly pointed out the absurdity to her claims, and asked whether she felt the same when many posters on this board and others engaged in the same behaviour to an even greater extreme with the Iris character, and your rebuttal is “that’s why some people will never like Iris”…*confused emoji* What does me correcting a false statement have to do with why you will or won’t like Iris, I thought we liked characters based on how the narrative portrayed them, how we are able to identify with their stories and characterization as the actors ability to convey said story…..not by viewer comments on a board, what am I missing here.

  24. Phoenix5634 says:

    I love this show because it involves advanced theoretical sciences, but I also fear for its sake for the same reason, becuz it seems not a lot of people can follow it.

  25. Grace M says:

    Is Hunter Zoloman the hint that he might be Zoom? If not, then what’s the possible clue? I didn’t pick up on it.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      Yes, pretty sure Hunter Zolomon is the “big clue” the article speaks of; in the comics Hunter Zolomon is a unique and significant speedster( if you want to know more, google it lol)… Although I’m not convinced his introduction isn’t a distraction from Zooms true identity… As Hunter Zolomon has been one of the leading theories since Zoom first appeared.

      • Grace M says:

        I did read the articles that Matt Web Mitovich linked on this article. I guess I’ll find out like everyone else in the season finale.

  26. Gail says:

    Does the time remnants thing allow the Reverse Flash to exist outside the timeline ? So even though he shouldn’t exist, he does live until the time when Eddie Kills himself and everything he did until then happened.

  27. aura says:

    I think i’m getting my show back, that’s what I think. Besides the extended Patty goodbye. Everything was on point loved the West family scenes Cisco and Harry were too damn much (in a good way), Jay and Caitlin scenes though a little snoozy, ushered in the “OMG is Jay Zoom moment, and finally seeing Barry give RF a beating was a sight for sore eyes. Overall I can feel it in my bones that the tempo, stories and excitement of most of season (which I immensely enjoyed) is returning and I couldn’t be more thrilled. I’m ready for the fast lane

  28. dancmh says:

    Patty sucked right up until the end. I’m surprised she didn’t pull out her gun and shoot Barry when the Flash showed up for her false alarm. It’s kind of her whole thing.

  29. The best part of the Episode when Cisco told Reverse Flash “Bye Felicia.” I never laughed my tail pipe off like I did during that scene

  30. robandco says:

    I’m still with Patty on this one. Yes, that false alarm stunt was clearly uncalled for, but Barry was the real jerk of the story. She figured it out. She made the first step and told him she knew. She told him she understood why he didn’t tell her. She also said she wouldn’t tell. She then said she could stay so they could fight crime together. She forgave him. And he just ignored her completely. I would have done the same, bust his ass but I wouldn’t have done that by lying about being in danger. I would have burst into STAR Labs and told everyone Barry told me the truth. That would have been fun.
    I don’t understand how everyone is confused about Eobard Thawne’s story. Since we learned he first traveled to this point in time, it means that up until this moment, there had been a Reverse Flash traveling in time to this Earth (Earth 1). That’s why even though Eddy killed himself and erased his future self, one Reverse Flash was still “trapped in time” traveling to this Earth. If you watched Legends of Tomorrow, Rip Hunter talked about a time limbo or something like that, so clearly it makes a lot of sense to me that Eobard would be in said limbo until he arrived. It’s complicated but it makes sense IMO.

    • Michelle says:

      Staying for a guy and sidelining the dream career always works out for love!

      Seriously ?

      • robandco says:

        She found out he was the Flash, maybe she’d rather fight crime alongside a real super hero than become a CSI. And it was in the moment, if she’d guessed right and he was indeed the Flash, which he is, he could easily speed to where her school is in a blink of an eye for the duration of the CSI training.
        If she’s willing to sideline her dreams, clearly she has strong feelings.

  31. Luis says:

    Finally, a police detective acting like a detective! Good for Patty.

  32. Elias says:

    Hunter Zolomon is zoom.

  33. Mo says:

    Patty proving to herself & Barry that he’s Flash, all Barry/RF scenes, their fight & running scenes never gets old, tricksy Harry setting up Vibe to get Flash to run fast enough to send RF back to the future, E1Jay is Hunter Zolomon!!!! hope this means a future arc of E1Jay as a baddie please please please, Grant perfectly expressed Barry’s conflicted emotions when told he had to let RF go to save Cisco.

    Losing Ronnie twice, possibly losing Jay and now we find out about her father. Poor Caitlin, she just can’t get a break. Why are the writers so mean to her?!

  34. Anwyl Desouza says:

    Awesome to see the Reverse Flash again!!!

  35. Cyndi says:

    The false alarm wasn’t her best moment but sometimes we do crazy things for closure. It’s forgivable.

  36. DD says:

    Was Cisco affected because he went and basically told Reverse Flash everything he needed to know in order to track down Barry in the future/past?!?! Why on earth (1-2-who cares :) ) would he tell him his name?????
    Basically, if I understood correctly, once Reverse Flash kills Nora in the past/his future and gets stuck, he figures out his plan to get “home” by becoming Harrison Wells based on the information he got from Cisco in this episode.. Time paradox indeed!!!

    • Q2 says:

      But RF is back in his own time now so why does he want/need to come back again to do whatever it actually is he keeps coming back to this time for? Thats the thing this show is based on and the one thing I can’t wrap my mind around.

      RF likes his time period. He doesn’t like Flash for some reason. He wants to kill Flash’s mom to express his hate on Flash. So he time travels and does it. Now he’s stuck. Dang. Lets do more evil to get back to the time he’s from and he likes.

      • Phoenix5634 says:

        There’s a good reason he keeps trying to go back to his own time. I’ll give you a hint, remember his wheelchair from season 1? Here’s another, it’s related to his finite powers.

  37. Q2 says:

    This show just seems anymore it is being written for people who have proper knowledge of the comics and all the various characters.
    I don’t and its rapidly losing me. This RF stuff I could kinda follow last year and even enjoyed it but now? His various timelines keep showing up in present day just so he can tell Barry he hates him and then wants to get back to his timeline but can’t because of some manufactured reason so he has to kill and do evil things to get back?
    How does he not know what time barry is from? Wouldn’t there be recorded history of it and all that? When he showed up last week it looked to be an accident timejump on his part? But from last year he came here to look for and kill Barry’s mom so he can get back to his time? Why not just stay in your time and not worry about coming here, killing someone(s) and other evil deeds to go back to your own time?

    Also, vibing. From what I recall, EVERY TIME Cisco has vibed, he’s seen the future. So last night when he sees RF kill that lady, every is sad that they couldn’t prevent it. Until Harry tells Cisco to look for a big flashing clock in his vision. Whoa, pan right and there is indeed a big flashing clock right there. Oh yay!!! we have time to save her now!

    Also, just after Harry told everyone NOT to make contact with imprisoned RF, EVERY ONE goes to see him and give him more knowledge. Yay team? Cisco’s chat with him was especially stupid and ridiculous. For everyone complaining about Patty at the end, what Cisco did was 100 times worse and 1000 times dumb.

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      Eobard in the future idolized the Flash Barry Allen, and he spent a lot of his life and his fortune trying to recreate the Flash’s powers for himself, he eventually found an acquired a time capsule that had the Flash’s suit in it, after further examining the suit he found that after the years of use, some of the speedforce had infused itself with the Barry’s suit. Eobard was then able to recreate the Flash’s powers using the suit and his technology.

      And becuz Reverse Flash has his powers becuz of the suit, almost like a symbiotic relationship, it’s quite literally like a shell of speedforce around him, becuz of this he is not tethered to his other versions of himself when he time travels and that is what creates his unique time paradoxs

      When he finally accomplished his goal and gained access to the speedforce, Eobard then travelled back in time to meet his idol, Barry Allen, BUT he time travelled to a time when Barry already knew him and hated him. ( so Eobard, fresh with his powers and idolized Barry, travelled to a time when Barry hated him )This is basically when Eobard takes on the name Reverse Flash, changes the colours of his suit to the exact opposite, and decides that his new goal will be to replace the Flash, as if Barry never existed, but he later found out he couldn’t do that without giving up his speedforce as well, so instead he made his goal to be better than the Flash and make the Flash’s life as miserable as possible.

      And there are records in the future, that’s how Eobard found the suit, knew about the Flash, an the appoximate time he existed in. Note; approximate. When he travelled back the first time, it would still be in the future of what we’ve seen on the show. And after that first meeting went so badly, he’s been continuing to travel back to find the Flash’s origin, and in doing so he has recreated many time paradoxs.

  38. Ken says:

    Did Barry reveal his identity to Patty when he rescued her from that criminal (The Turtle?)? Did he say, “You mean so much to me that I will never let anyone hurt you?” Or words to that effect?

  39. Tony says:

    Just watched. Judging by everyone’s reaction, you would have thought Patty threaten to blow her brains out right there on the train to force Barry to unmask himself. She wanted confirmation and closure. She got it. Barry seemed to understand why she did it. And that was it.

    As for the Reverse Flash paradox, I’m sure there’s some comic book related explanation for it that those familiar with the property could better clarify. I’m wracking my brain with all sorts of scenarios and nothing makes sense .

    • Phoenix5634 says:

      Read my post a few above, tried to explain Eobard/ RF a bit more

      • Tony says:

        So if I’m understanding you correctly, what you’re saying is that his connection to the Speedforce and his time traveling has made him immune to the paradoxes he created? So are there multiple (but essentially the same) Eobard Thawnes?

  40. KayCeeCee says:

    I’m calling it now: Patty will come back as a villain!

  41. April says:

    Why do they have to reveal who Zoom is. Why not have him as a mystery villain who team flash beat at the end of the season but he returns in later seasons. And then finally reveal him in a future season.

    I feel like we already now who RF is. We know the identity of every villain. Why not leave this one as a Big Bad that will haunt Barry for future seasons

  42. Rico says:

    If Thawne knew that the tachyon device he’s using is a second one, why was Thawne/Wells of season 1 surprised to know that there is a second device?