Post Mortems
Arrow Oliver's Son Spoilers

Arrow Bosses on How Oliver's Secret Will Raise the 'Olicity' Stakes — Plus: The Cost of Barry's Big Move

Warning: The following contains spoilers for Wednesday’s episode of Arrow.

The paternity results are in on Arrow, and Oliver Queen, you are the father.

During the conclusion of the superhero series’ crossover with The Flash on Wednesday night, Oliver confronted his former fling after running a DNA test to confirm that her kid is, indeed, his child.

But the mother-son duo aren’t Sandra and Connor Hawke — as some fans have speculated since the baby mama’s first appearance in Season 2. Instead, the show’s producers chose to have them simply be Samantha and William Clayton, instead of iconic comic book figures.

Executive producer Andrew Kreisberg says the creative team didn’t want to be restricted by “a character like Connor not being able to be part of the show [because] we made him so young.” The eventual compromise, he adds, allows for “the leeway to still have Connor Hawke be part of the universe.”

Arrow Oliver's Son Spoilers“That was the biggest reason we made that decision,” the EP continues. “It’s actually one of the things all of us are most proud of… that we were able to, basically, have one scene in one episode in Season 2, knowing that we were eventually going to get to this point, and that it is all set up and all tied in to Oliver’s mother. [Her portrayer] Susanna [Thompson] hasn’t been with the show for a while now, and yet her presence is still felt all throughout this story. There are some things that happen when you do a show for a long time that are just happy accidents, and then there are other things that you plan. This is one that we really planned.”

Adds EP Greg Berlanti: “It’s, obviously, a very emotional storyline. It was nice to pay off, especially watching Stephen [Amell] do a lot of the work that he did in the episode.”

Read on for scoop on the challenges ahead for Oliver and Felicity, the aftermath of Barry’s time trip and more.

OLICITY’S BUMPY ROAD | Oliver’s decision to keep the truth from Felicity about his son — that is, after Barry erased the timeline where she found out on her own, resulting in a huge fight with her boyfriend — is “definitely going to come to a head in the middle of the season,” Arrow co-showrunner Wendy Mericle previews. “True to what we’ve done on the show, if there’s a secret somewhere, it’s going to come out, and it’s going to have some serious consequences. We’re excited about how that’s going to change things.” After a run of mostly smooth sailing this season for the couple, the covert curveball is “really going to raise the stakes and throw some wrenches into the works of their relationship,” the EP continues. “We’re going to mine that. There’ll be some fallout for both of them.”

Arrow Oliver's Son SpoilersTINKERING WITH TIME | Barry’s trip back in time after Savage destroyed Central City, killing both Teams Arrow and Flash (!), will have consequences, per the EPs. “When Sara was brought back, when Thea was brought back, last year when Barry changed the timeline, this year when Barry changes the timeline, any of these things that feel like the right thing to do, there is always, always a price to be paid,” Kreisberg warns. And relying on magical or fantastical fix-its to undo death won’t necessarily be possible in the future. “We’ve certainly taken care of the Lazarus Pit at the end of Episode 3 of [Arrow] Season 4,” EP Marc Gugggenheim says, adding that spinoff DC’s Legends of Tomorrow will explain “why time travel can’t be used in a deus ex machina kind of way, not just with respect to death, but with respect to any plot contrivance.”

VANDAL’S RESURRECTION | As seen in the closing minutes — when Malcolm gathered Vandal Savage’s ashes — the villain’s story is far from over. But the details of how he’ll resurface to haunt Legends will be saved for the offshoot rather than upcoming episodes of Arrow or The Flash. However, Berlanti notes that the current seasons of those mothership shows are far from done, “so I don’t want to say we won’t come up with some kind of way to reference it.”

What did you think of Part 2 of the Flash/Arrow crossover? Grade it via the poll below, then hit the comments to back up your pick!

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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203 Comments
  1. “But the mother-son duo aren’t Sandra and Connor Hawke — as some fans have speculated since the baby mama’s first appearance in Season 2. Instead, the show’s producers chose to have them simply be Samantha and William Clayton, instead of iconic comic book figures.”

    Urgh. Their reasoning is very lame.

    • Grace says:

      if they aren’t going to do connor hawke, then what’s the point of him having a son he didn’t know about other than to use it as a contrived way of breaking up olicity – inevitably, as they established in this episode. useless.

      • It’s convoluted, and a waste opportunity as Connor gave them the chance to keep the show going with a new lead in a few years. Arrow could go on for as long as Smalville, or as long as Supernatural, but Amell might not want to stick with it, at which point they could slide Connor into the lead.

        • Julian says:

          I think I read that they’ll introduce Connor in LoT

        • Dave says:

          IM thinking she the mom dies and the son goes to live with oliver (of course we will get drama like him running away, getting kidnapped etc) then they will reveal that his middle name is connor lol
          Problem solved

        • tyranthraxus says:

          You say that like continuining a TV show for the sake of.. contiuning a tv show is a good thing. Make the most of the 5-6 seasons you have and then move on to the next show. The best tv shows are the ones that have a finite life where the creators and actors get to tell their story and move on. Not one that just keeps going because the fans want it to keep going.

          • Stories revolve around characters. Once you finish telling the story of one character, you move on to telling stories about other characters. Soaps have been doing it for 85 years or so.

          • Rob Watkins says:

            Cheers, Frasier, and Friends alll had great runs deep into their respective series. Even Supernatural, while not as great as it was, is having a stellar season this year.

      • John NYC says:

        I don’t see the contrived. Given what we’ve seen of just how much of a skank he was before the island what would have been contrived is he NOT having some unknown number of children out there. Unknown since as with Samantha any woman who came to her senses after the huge mistake of letting Oliver within range of her pants would make damn sure he was never part of their lives.

        That he dealt with it in the classic “Oliver knows best” instinctive manner he has (what would get them all killed and the city incinerated btw), while disappointing, is also rather organic. That it will bite him big time is as well.

      • tyranthraxus says:

        I think its actually more of a thing to rock his Mayoral campaign then anything to do with Felicity.

        PI does digging : finds out about child Oliver had when he was younger.

        I know people are of course going to draw it as a link to Felcity and relationship issues, but Im not and people should look at it as a Comicbook show doing more than just showing people with wings and explosions.

    • herman1959 says:

      I have to admit that I didn’t really understand the explanation, but it doesn’t really matter to me…OLIVER HAS A SON. I give the episode a B, not quite as good as The Flash (A) last night, but it held my interest and it put Malcolm back in the mix.

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        They want to leave open the opportunity to bring Connor Hawke onto the show, but older than 10 years old.

        • herman1959 says:

          OK, thanks Matt.

        • How many women is Oliver supposed to have impregnated before he got lost at sea?

          • herman1959 says:

            I would expect that this means Connor Hawke will be given a new origin story; sorry.

          • Eh, not necessarily. In the comics he fathered two children, one with Shado and one with Sandra Hawke. The one with Shado. Robert Queen, is just not as famous as Conner, so within the scope of the series, Conner still fits.

          • peterwdawson says:

            Well it was suggested he really got around despite ostensibly dating Laurel at the time, and possibly even before that. So maybe not Robert Baratheon levels but a few potentially for sure.

          • Jag says:

            I think the timeline and the alternate universe will reveal Connor is the son version of Arrow on another dimension. 100% this is the only plausible way.

          • Nah, not necessarily. He’s always had two kids in canon. The one with Shado just doesn’t exist in the TV canon.

          • Tobias says:

            to be fair.. Shado “raped” Oliver.

          • Yes, yes she did. I always thought it was Cheshire and Roy.

          • ? says:

            But time travel exists. This kid still could have been Connor and if they wanted an older version of him to show up they could have done that still. That would have been the only smart thing to do, because Oliver simply wasn’t old enough to have an older kid in this show’s timeline (or, I’d argue, realistically have gotten two women pregnant while supposedly dating Laurel). And yeah, Connor should be of mixed race, but lots of characters on the show are race-swapped and it would be very hypocritical to be upset about him not being it if you aren’t upset about all the other swaps.

          • John NYC says:

            Rich playboy with no impulse control and less conscience?

            Legions.

        • Sil says:

          Thank you, Matt. I can see the introduction of his son this season, but, the secret and lie to Felicity is entirely contrived and pointless IMO. Arrow got a B for the introduction of the Hawk people and Vandal Savage. The special effects were great. Malcolm I’m tired off.

    • Liz says:

      This. I do not understand why they even bothered with the baby mama drama storyline if the kid isn’t Connor. Just…why?

      • John NYC says:

        Because not everything put into the show is lifted from comics?

        And given his backstory NOT having a child would be the outlier.

        • tyranthraxus says:

          and thank God for that So fed up with Comic Nerds having a whine because whats presented on screen dosnt fit their ‘canon’ story stuff or whats happened before.

          • AdM says:

            Exactly..from the very beginning these shows were never meant to be for hard core comic fans..And nowhere was it ever stated that they’d stick strictly to the comics. These shows are meant for the average viewer who would have very limited/no knowledge of comics at all. So to most viewers this son being Connor or not does not make the slightest diff

  2. Hazeleyes06 says:

    That DAMN child storyline…

  3. Wee says:

    Anybody else despise the child storyline in every way shape and form? They aren’t Connor and Sandra because then they would have been whitewashed. Simple as that.

    • John NYC says:

      Not yet. They’re a couple of screen minutes into it.

      I’d like to see where it goes.

      Oh plus I have zero interest in “Connor and Sandra”. Unless and until they show up in this show.

    • amb1973 says:

      Baby Mama is a hag, story is ridiculously stupid. Any court in the country would grant him visitation. He’s just so dumb again.

      • Dj says:

        He could easily take this court and fight for his rights. But that would put his son in the spotlight. The media would go crazy about a custody battle between a mayoral candidate and his ex. Not to mention Darhk who likes to use family members as leverage or any villain who knows he is the arrow and wants to hurt him. Him pushing this and taking her to court would be an awful move on his part.

  4. Jimmy says:

    This episode was much better than the Flash episode. That scene of Central City being destroyed must have blown a whole in their FX budget.

  5. Dj says:

    So Oliver finds out he has a son and Felicity makes it all about her. Right now I kind of want her to be in that grave. Did Malcolm know Savage already or is he using this for his own advantage.

    • Liz says:

      She didn’t make it about her AT ALL. She just wanted him to be honest with her. She specifically said she had no problem with him having a child. Seriously.

      • Dj says:

        She accused him of not trusting her. Which again made it about her. For the people who are saying Oliver didn’t tell her it went from him thinking maybe it’s my kid to its my kid in a few days. Really He couldn’t even process how his life had just changed or what he should do. Oh and Felicity didnt want him to explain what happen, because she was already in attack mode when she confronted him.

        • aunni says:

          boo hoo…we know you are felicity hater

          • And you’re a Felicity apologist! While Laurel gets on my nerves a lot, she is nowhere near as bad as the self centered Felicity!

          • Alan says:

            Well, I happen to enjoy Felicity and her relationship with Oliver, but I had to agree that her reaction was WAY over the top. What, because he didn’t INSTANTLY tell her about something that rocked his world and which he was still processing Felicity wants to break up with him? Sorry, but only psychologically unhealthy people overreact in such a way.

            But, they did this was Iris too last season on Flash (the only thing about the season I truly disliked) – what is it with these otherwise charming and rational women going psycho the instant that the man in their life might maybe perhaps have a secret for which he likely has a good reason not to tell. Their reactions are what you’d expect of people with Borderline Personality Disorder!

          • Kira says:

            Honestly I didn’t like Felicity’s reaction either. However I don’t think there could ever be a “good” reason for keeping a child secret from your significant other, a bad ending in situations like these where people keep huge secrets like that are inevitable. I do think she should have played it cool and waited to see if he would eventually tell her (which he would not have done of course) and she would have had a legitimate reason for blowing up at him. Again I am so through with all the angst crap on this show.

        • Liz says:

          But trust in a relationship isn’t just about one person. It’s about them both. I honestly don’t see what was so wrong with Felicity wanting her boyfriend to be honest about such a HUGE thing. And I’m not surprised she was in attack mode given that he’s lied to her before in season 3 which is the reason Diggle fell out with Oliver in the first place. It’s a bad pattern and Oliver should have broken it. That’s not on Felicity. You don’t have to like her character but at least understand that trust is a huge deal in relationships.

          • Dj says:

            If she has the same reaction in this new timeline then I agree. Because that would be Oliver lying to her for weeks/months, but when he finds out 100% he has a son and she confronts him that same night about keeping it a secret and lying to her without letting him explain. This was way to soon and at the wrong time.

          • She should trust that if he is keeping something from her, than it’s probably because he himself was just starting to grasp it instead of automatically assuming it’s all about her!

          • Isobel says:

            I can understand her being upset that he lied to her face, but he just found out about the kid, I don’t think she had any basis in believing he was going to keep it a secret in the future. I’m with DJ, a few weeks or months later is bad, a few hours is understandable.

          • Liz says:

            I just think it was very obvious that he wasn’t going to take time to process like he originally said. He was clearly going to lie to her because baby mama asked him to and she just called him out on it. I would too.

          • Sil says:

            We don’t know how the time travel alteration does to Oliver’s story. Will Darkh get wind of it. That publicity could destroy Oliver’s cred and his secret will have repercussions. On his mayoral campaign, trust. Felicity has had trust issues all her life. Oliver and his family have lied and manipulated people all their lives. Will Sneaky and Coniving Malcolm be Oliver’s thorn?

      • She totally made it about her and the intrusive way she got the info wasn’t great either

      • She complained that he didn’t tell specifically her, when he didn’t tell anyone besides Barry and that was only out of necessity.

    • Josh says:

      What the heck ever completely ignore that he didn’t freaking tell her when we know she won’t care! Oliver is a f###### idiot.

      • Why did he need to tell her after learning it himself hours earlier? And Samantha (the mother, who should be more important than Saint Felicity) made Oliver give his word that he wouldn’t tell anyone!

        • Steven says:

          So the woman who lied about miscarrying the baby to Oliver, then for 4 years Oliver has been back and not mentioned it to him that the child is ablive and then tells him not tell anyone about this because WHY?

      • AdM says:

        Why..so Oliver is not allowed to be his own person anymore to deal & process with this big life changing discovery for even a day before he tells Felicity.

        • Stark says:

          Or be his own person AND TELL HIS GIRLFRIEND. He could also be his own man and NOT agreed to baby mommas conditions and said I will keep the secrest except for Felicity

    • Regina Phalange says:

      She didn’t expect him to tell her right away. She was upset that he literally lied straight to her face when she asked him about what was going on and he came up with some excuse about DD. That’s what she was upset about. “I don’t care that you have a child….I care that you lied to me just now” Just now being the operative phrase their. And she has every right to be angry when he just flat out lied

  6. lily says:

    That was such a great way to throw out all of Oliver’s character development for cheap angst. They just April Nardini’d this show.

  7. Grace says:

    and one more thing… oliver not telling felicity at this point is completely out of character with the oliver we’ve seen this season. the idea that he and felicity couldn’t share the secret without babymama finding out is just weeeeeak.

    • It’s not the fact that they couldn’t, it’s that Oliver should respect the mother of his child’s wishes no matter how big of a temper tantrum Felicity throws!

      • Liz says:

        The mother of his child has no legal standing and her wishes were ridiculous. Demanding that he tell no one in his life, not one family member or anything, or he won’t see his son? That’s just plain cruel and dumb.

        • Shep says:

          Well if he told anyone the mother wouldn’t let Oliver see his kid again that was her condition and Oliver is just respecting that. IF he tells Felicity than he loses a chance to get to know his son.

    • John NYC says:

      Yet he did precisely the same thing in organizing the plot against Savage: deciding all by himself who suited up and who didn’t; and got them all killed and the city incinerated for his control freaking that time. So they got a do-over and barry convinced him incineration wasn’t a good thing….

      RIGHT in line with Oliver instinctively going for the “I’ll deal with this suspicion on my own” rather than getting input from his alleged life-partner.

  8. GirlvsTV says:

    Hated this ep. HATED.

    I don’t care about the hawk people and those Egyptian flashbacks were so awful and cheesy.

    And I hate that once again the writers are totally okay throwing out half a season of Oliver’s growth and development to create stupid relationship drama. He and Felicity were fine. Having them deal with secret kid would have created enough drama on its own. It didn’t need to be made even more stupid with secret keeping. Ugh.

    • Vicki says:

      You just said everything I feel! At this moment, I definitely don’t want to see an engagement because it would be a farce. I expected bumps in the Olicity relationship, but Oliver would NEVER have lied to Felicity about his son. NEVER. I’m so angry right now. And I was so bored with all the Egyptian stuff – I have no interest in LoT or those characters. I don’t even know how I feel about the show at this moment. Hated these developments.

      • Julie says:

        You both are saying everything that i felt. I need Flash to go back in time and make this entire episode go away. I am ANGRY that the writers even thought it was okay for Oliver to lie to Felicity about this. The entire son storyline is not even needed – it became just another stupid reason to cause angst. They just took a great season and ruined it with this one episode. I am not sure it is worth watching anymore.

        • xjentryn says:

          Sigh…..everyone here is missing the obvious truth. The mother specifically TOLD Oliver he could not share this news with anyone if he wanted to know his son. Oliver WANTS to tell Felicity, but can’t as he’s honoring his deal. If he didn’t honor it, that would also come back to bite him. This was a no-win situation for him. The best outcome he saw was to at least get to know his kid. This in no way undid character development. Honestly people, you need to pay attention before posting stupid comments.

          • Josh says:

            Who the Hell is Felicity gonna tell? Oliver could swear her to silence about it? What’s that #### Samantha going to do follow Oliver to ensure he doesn’t tell no one? Sounds like someone giving Oliver a pass for Lying to his girlfriend who he said he never would lie too!

          • GirlvsTV says:

            The mother does not have total control over the situation. She lied to Oliver for some seriously weak reasons initially and then lied again when he confronted her the first time in this episode. That is Oliver’s kid and he has rights as his parent. Oliver did not have to agree to lie to Felicity, he had other options available to him to see his son including getting a lawyer and going through the courts. Also, as has been mentioned, Oliver could have told Felicity anyway. She wouldn’t have betrayed his trust and Baby Mama would have never known Felicity knew.

        • ranillon says:

          I have to say that I find your and similar reactions here on this thread quite disturbing. Thinking that a man should always tell a woman each and everything he knows the moment he knows it without ever keeping a secret is about as stereotypical “psycho possessive girlfriend” as you can get. If Felicity honestly trusts him then she would lay off because she would trust that his reasons for not saying anything were valid. Her WAY over the top reaction is classic “projection” – even as she rails against not being trusted she OBVIOUSLY does not trust the man she supposedly loves.

          Sorry, but in this case (and I say this as someone who generally enjoys the Olicity romance) Felicity’s reaction isn’t merely wrong, but downright unhealthy.

          • GirlvsTV says:

            Wow, I don’t see how Felicity being upset that Oliver lied to her face makes her ‘psycho’?! I probably wouldn’t even be as angry if he had just withheld the info from her, but the show had Felicity give him an opening to tell her the truth twice and Oliver picked lying both times.

      • HIS son, not Felicity’s. He had every right to keep his findings a secret until he was comfortable coming to him! The “Egyptian stuff” was the only thing that made this episode bearable.

        • GirlvsTV says:

          If he had just kept it from her I probably wouldn’t be as upset but he lied to her face. Twice. Earlier in the episode he avoided doing to that by being honest that something was going but he wasn’t ready to tell her yet. There is no reason he couldn’t have tried to do something similar later on. But instead he lied. That’s why I’m pissed at the writers. I don’t see how or why the Oliver we’ve seen over the first half of the season would choose to do that.

          • John NYC says:

            Additionally it’s his standard lack of trust in anyone but himself: exhibit A from this very episode is the first ambush plan on Savage that results in everyone getting incinerated because Oliver bulldozes over everyone else’s input and leaves vital members of the team behind: and dies for the lack of trust in those people.

            Trust would have meant sharing with Felicity his concerns before he confirmed them and got boxed in with Samantha’s demands. I heard Felicity being upset with the lack of trust, not the specific lie.

  9. Stacy says:

    I read a comment earlier where someone said, “I hope they don’t April Nardini this show!” They have done exactly that. He discovers a child he didn’t know about and he’s keeping it a secret from his significant other. Oy.

    • For less than a day! Felicity doesn’t have carte blanch on every single thing that goes on in Oliver’s life. Sorry Olicity lovers, the world doesn’t revolve around her when there are literal psychopathic immortals running around.

  10. Jeff hunter says:

    Loved this Episode and the crossover altogether it was fun bring on LOT!jeff

  11. Liz says:

    They just threw away all of Oliver’s character growth this season for a dumb baby mama drama secret keeping storyline. I also don’t believe he’d ever keep this a secret from Felicity either and the baby mama was really unfair actually. I understand her not wanting anyone else to know but Oliver should be able to tell the woman he lives with. This was hard to stomach. Not looking forward to the fallout. Feels really contrived to add drama to Olicity’s relationship when it just isn’t needed.

    • Oh you mean like how Felicity kept the fact that she followed Oliver and forced her way into business that wasn’t her own?

      • ranillon says:

        EXACTLY! It’s like the usually sane and (mostly) emotionally healthy Felicity suddenly turned into suspicious and possessive “psycho girlfriend” who is eternally paranoid that her boyfriend isn’t absolutely 100% perfect every second of the day. It was NOT healthy behavior to say the least (and if routine would be a classic sign of Borderline Personality Disorder) – and I really find it disturbing how the show does this with her and Iris without someone calling out their inappropriate reactions. Honestly, do the writers think that such overreactions are healthy?

        • Stark says:

          IT IS HER BUSINESS… If your girlfriend ended up having a child you didn;t know about and was making secret pacts with her ex boyfriend father of the child to secrecy, you wouldn’t have a problem with that?

      • Liz says:

        When did she follow Oliver? That didn’t even happen.

        • Zack says:

          Yes, yes it did. She followed Oliver to Barry’s lab at CCPD then asked/demanded the report Barry poorly hid from Felicity.

    • Joe says:

      I enjoy olicity a lot and even I think Felicity was wrong…Oliver told her he was dealing with something and he would tell her later…he finds out hevis the father, Felicity follows him to Barry’s lab, forces Barry to tell her, then confronts Oliver, literally hours after he finds out, while he is trying to save central city… Then rather than giving him time to tell her, as he said he would, she confronts him, calld him a liar, and dumps him…not rational behavior…

  12. Liz says:

    Also those flashbacks with the Hawks were legit terrible and so embarrassing. I definitely will not be watching Legends if this is what to expect. No way. So so so bad. They were the worst part of the episode.

  13. Elena says:

    The way Oliver had been portrayed this season makes it seem very unbelievable that he would keep a secret like this from Felicity. Please, let’s not repeat the mistakes of season 3 writers! Olicity only works when both characters involved are acting like intelligent, honest, mature adults. Something Oliver was doing so well until now…

    • Or maybe Felicity should learn that if Oliver (a man who gave up his life, and then picked it back up, for her, probably has a good reason to keep something from her?

      • Liz says:

        Uh…Oliver didn’t give up his life for Felicity. He was the one who wanted to leave the city. He specifically asked her to go away with him. Do you even watch the show? You’re just making things up to suit your argument.

    • John NYC says:

      Once a control freak ALWAYS a control freak. He instinctively went for a solution only HE could come up with. Just like with the first attack on Savage, and with similar results unfortunately…..

      Not about the details of that lie but the pattern of lacking in trust.

  14. Foshi says:

    Agh! I’m fine with drama. Bring the pain. I love the darkness because it makes the light more meaningful and raises the stakes. This drama, or drama for dramas sake, doesn’t work for me. A baby mama and secret love child felt a little too “soapy operay” and that saying something for Arrow. Please refer to cheating, lying, love triangles and resurrection drama of the previous 3 years. Despite my scepticism, I figure we’ll get some great character moments and emtional development out of the conflict a son in Oliver’s life will create. I had faith that’s where we were headed. I had not considered that after the last 3 years of growth and getting to a place where Oliver didn’t keep secrets from the team, we’d be right back where we started. I can understand the loop Oliver has been thrown with this revelation, but I 100% disagree with the decision to wipe away the progress he’s made in opening up to others. We didn’t suffer all of the pain of S3 storylines that ended with Oliver learning to trust, tell the truth, ask for help, not be a dictator, and open himself emotionally only to go back and have to watch it all over again. Having to repeat the lessons he’s already learned about the importance of honesty and secrets feels like regression and I’m not here for that. Boo! Life throws curve balls and the drama of a child would have been enough conflict for Oliver and Felicity to deal with. Reverting to rehashing old development that had been resolved to create manufactured drama is below these writers. The mature adult relationship that we saw so far this season doesn’t need this stuff to keep us watching. Poor writing isn’t what’s going to keep people enjoying this couple and show its continued BELIEVEABLE character development that has payoff and progress. You don’t get that from going back. Drama isn’t bad but bad drama just sucks.

  15. Kira says:

    This is way to bury the Olicity relationship without killing her off, although that might still hsppen. Still… i’m definitely not looking forward to all the damn angst. Ugh that’s why I don’t like relationships on hero shows.

  16. Danielle says:

    I wonder if William is going to be the one in the grave…

    • herman1959 says:

      I hope they don’t go there.

    • Lucia says:

      Uuhh, that’s a posibility. But I think that would bring back dark Oliver

    • Dj says:

      I dont think they will. That would be a really dark turn to murder a 9 year old. But these two episode made me rethink who I thought was in the grave. I still think it’s Captain Lance, but I can really see Darhk killing Oliver son’s mother. It wouldn’t even have to be because he is the arrow it could be because of him running for mayor.

  17. Diane says:

    At least Laurel fans now have proof he never loved Felicity more than Laurel. Cause he’s treating her the exact same. Oh well.

    And the haters got what they wanted do there is that too.

    I hope they give Felicity a decent farewell when they send Oliver back to Laurel and they raise his kid.

    • aunni says:

      go troll some other place aka imdb

    • Liz says:

      I hate to compare love interests but come on. That’s inaccurate. Up until this contrived baby mama crap which could have been solved with one simple conversation, Oliver hasn’t ever cheated on Felicity repeatedly like he did to Laurel. He didn’t get another woman pregnant while he was with her. He hasn’t called her an addict. He actually respects Felicity. I’m not sure what show you’ve been watching.

      • Diane says:

        He’s lying to her face, even as she is basically begging him to tell the truth…. And he lied to her last season. He is treating her just like He treated Laurel. The lying. The planned sneaking off this time to see a woman and his child. While he is what planning a life with her? That’s what he did with Laurel….he is just doing it now with better hair. And I don’t even like Laurel, but if this is how it’s going down, Olicity is basically done Felicity just doesn’t know yet. Just like his relationship with Laurel. Is his plan just to what tell her he has a big important mayor meeting but she can’t know about it weekends and alternating holidays?

        And since comic fans have insisted Felicity is irrelevant cause comics, this seems like the best way to write her off. She likely die a hero and Oliver can cry but he’ll have his son soooo.

        • Liz says:

          LMAO you don’t even like Laurel and yet you want her to be with Oliver and raise his son together? Yeah, okay, you’ve got Lauriver stan written all over you.

          Felicity’s relationship with Oliver is nothing like the one he had with Laurel. Nothing. Laurel wanted to move in with Oliver and he literally got on a boat to his ‘death’ to run away from her. With her sister too. He wasn’t planning any life with her but running away from her. Try watching the show sometime.

      • Yesterday says:

        I don’t think it’s fair to compare present Oliver to pre shipwreck Oliver. It would be a stretch to say that playboy Oliver would’ve treated Felicity any better than Laurel.

      • Yesterday says:

        I don’t think it’s fair to compare present Oliver to pre shipwreck Oliver. It would be a stretch to say that playboy Oliver would’ve treated Felicity any better than Laurel.

    • michelle says:

      actually Oliver has cheated on laurel countless times, Oliver has NEVER and WILL never cheat on felicity, yes he may have lied to her but that’s because he THINKS he is doing the right thing with laurel he knew it was bad but he kept on cheating. that proves he loves felicity more. plus i seriously doubt they’re gonna put Oliver and laurel back together, that was over a long time ago

    • Gale says:

      Nope! Oliver lied to Laurel because he didn’t really care about her. Oliver lied to Felicity because he couldn’t bear to lose her (which is what Barry implied would happen if he told the truth). Big difference.

  18. cokit says:

    Somebody below said Oliver is a f@%#$*ing idiot. I second that, I mean things are going so well between Oliver and Felicity and he knows that Felicity would not have a problem with him having a son why hide it from her for? That was an idiotic move at best, this part of the show does not have a leg to stand on. I only hope that those writers are not plaining to split Felicity and Oliver for the show is hotter than ever with them together. What happen with that ring anyway? Come on people do not mess a great thing, there are no better person for Oliver than Felicity.

    • John NYC says:

      But he’d have had to have told Felicity before he confirmed it. Once Samantha laid out her terms he was stuck: betray his son by walking away or betray Felicity by keeping that secret from her.

      Tough place.

      And Control Freak Oliver doesn’t do preventive conversations.

      • Josh says:

        He couldn’t tell Felicity and have her not tell anyone? C’mon now he is so stupid to give in to stupid demands like that. It was BS how the heck would Samantha know if Felicity knew. Sam is a #####

        • Samantha is not that for wanting to keep HER (not Felicity’s, sorry you Olicity lover) son away the insane life that Oliver lives?! That’s her choice and it didn’t lead to any one being killed (at least, not yet)!

          • Liz says:

            You have serious issues if you keep commenting on pro-Olicity comments. Samantha’s demands were unrealistic and would never hold up in court. Oliver was a fool for lying.

    • Kira says:

      I think as I stated before that Felicity intital reaction to the parternity test was a little much. But for those people who keeps stating how Oliver was justified in his lying because that’s what Sam wanted and she has a right to give those kinds of conditons because she’s the kid’s mother is wrong. I don’t think Sam has any right to make conditions like that when she lied to Oliver for 9 years about a son he knew nothing about. It’s not like Oliver knew about the boy and chose to give up his rights, he wasn’t given any choices from the get go so for Sam to start demanding things from this man who lost all that time from his son is pretty selfish. Not only does she not have the right to stomp on his rights but she does not have the right to decide who in Oliver’s life gets to know about his son. (Because the fact of the matter is the boy is Oliver’s son too, she didn’t make the kid herself) And I also think that if Oliver really wanted to he would not have let what Sam wanted stop him. He doesn’t want Felicity to know which go back to his trust/control issues. I think most of the comments here correct when they say that this was a huge set back for Oliver’s character this season.

  19. CM says:

    Does “raising the stakes” always mean “make the characters behave in really stupid ways” in Hollywood.

  20. Drew says:

    How perfect would it have been to introduce Connor Hawke in the same episode as Hawkman and Hawkgirl? It makes no sense to keep Connor available for later. He won’t be Oliver’s son. He won’t have the same backstory. Therefore, he won’t be Connor.
    Felicity’s reaction was awful. It made me want her gone. She JUST went off on Oliver about needing space to deal with her Ray issues, and then she selfishly gives him crap for needing a few minutes to process the fact that his child was stolen from him. When he tried to explain himself, she shut him down. She made it about her. She was a total b—-. That makes me think that she doesn’t really love Oliver. She is still just the woman who is in live with the fantasy of Oliver.
    Maybe if he needs to talk he should bring it to Thea or Laurel instead.
    Oliver’s conversation with Samantha should have gone very differently. He should let her set the rules. He shouldn’t allow her to make his son a shameful secret that he is forced to keep from the people who care about him. She stole his child. She had no right to do that. And while he should certainly think about what’s best for William, he should not just bow down to this woman.
    .
    Everything else kinda existed outside of the actual show and they really need to include both shows in the DVD sets when they come out, or it will make no sense at all. As an Arrow episode, it wasn’t super strong. However, as a superhero crossover movie, it was pretty cool. I like Hawkman and Hawkgirl and how they played their relationship, with Kendra not really liking him. They are linked, but they make their own destiny.
    Most of the characters didn’t really get a chance to shine, but it was cool to see the teams working together.

    • Drew says:

      He *shouldn’t* let her set the rules.

    • Josh says:

      What the Hell ever Felicity doesn’t care if he has a child. Yes she should happy he can’t come to her first. All the lying and bullcrap he did last season to her but let’s ignore to bash Felicity and excuse Oliver for the crap he pulled last season and tonight. Oliver can #### off. Relationships involve trust

      • Drew says:

        Like agreeing to leave the superhero life behind and start a new, safe, normal life in Star City, only to go behind Oliver’s back the entire time? She lied for months. Where was the trust there?
        Felicity wants Oliver to back off when she is dealing with Ray issues. She wants him to back off when she is dealing with Mommy issues. Then she wants him to come back when she wants him around and tell her absolutely everything about himself the second it comes up? It’s not like he hid this for months. Maybe he was waiting until they were done fighting the 4000 year old immortal who wanted to nuke two cities with his magic stick. Maybe he was putting the issue on the back burner for the moment. But Felicity didn’t care what his reasons were. She demands. She wants. She feels.
        Season 3 was crap, no doubt. But that doesn’t mean that Oliver isn’t allowed to deal with his own issues from time to time. This wasn’t group business, it was his.
        And honestly, at this point Thea has more business knowing than Felicity. She is his girlfriend, not his wife. It’s not like she has told him everything she knows about her father. At least Thea is family and William is her blood, for the rest of their lives.
        I get that people love Olicity, but she was way out of line here and she didn’t slow down for a second to think about the fact that Oliver just found out that his son was stolen from him. That trumps her stupid petty little whiny issues. A grownup would have couched the relationship drama for a few seconds to see if the person they loved was okay.

  21. fanta says:

    Terrible episode. Just awful. The flashbacks were boring. The Hawk people were uninteresting and frankly, not great actors. They brought time travel on Arrow, which was my worst fear since they introduced it to The Flash. And then they end it with Oliver lying to Felicity and Malcolm being Malcolm (I do not mean this in a good way).

  22. James D says:

    UGH. first why do the writers of this show hate the comics so much, I think they’re pretty awesome stories, I understand the need to separate your creative vision from what has been done but this is becoming ridiculous i mean they are really stretching the definition of taking liberties with the source material. Oliver Queen has one son that is Connor Hawke their reasoning behind this is totally nonsensical. second, God on high please for the sake of my sanity can we be done with this Olicity malarkey, I’m very sorry if that offends fans of them, but I can’t take it anymore it’s ruining the show for me its always some form of melodrama between the two and it is completely stifling the storytelling, and the secret keeping thing is getting so tired every freaking season Ollie or some other character keeps a secret that always ends the same way, its boring. I’m not crazy about how they’ve handled Hawkman and Hawkgirl but I’m willing to see how it plays out in LOT, other than those things I liked the episode, part one was better IMO but this was perfectly enjoyable for the most part. sorry for the mini rant folks, but aspects of this show are starting to make my brain hurt.

    • James D says:

      Woops totes forgot about Robert Queen Shado’s son so technically Oliver Queen had two sons but my point is still valid…kind of :)

    • John NYC says:

      And right there is the reason I will NEVER ever watch anything based on J. R. R. Tolkein’s masterworks.

      The visual media will, of necessity, change some things and that’s vandalism at best, obscenity at worst.

      Don’t want to witness the inevitable blasphemy? Don’t watch the show. Because “based on” is never going to be “a photocopy of”.

  23. Katie says:

    The Vandal Savage stuff was fine, although it still didn’t make me want to watch Legends. The secret child story line is ridiculous. Secret keeping/lying as a way to manufacture conflict is not a good idea. I’m especially worried that all the show runners seems so excited about it and proud of what they did; that suggests things will not improve over the rest of the season. Oliver is supposed to have developed as a character this season, and aside from some weird moments in Flash last night when he was acting like season 3 Oliver, they’ve done very well with that. Then they went straight back to the lying and the secrets. For a SOAP OPERA story. This is not what Arrow is supposed to be about, and this unnecessary subplot has the potential to not just undermine Oliver’s character arc, but to suck time and attention away from the Damien Darhk story, which is what THE SEASON IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT. It’s a distraction. And not even one we can enjoy.

  24. John NYC says:

    “Felicity. I ran into someone in Central City I used to know a long time ago and she had a son that’s the right age to possibly be mine and she left under odd circumstances so I’m going to check this vibe out okay? What do you think?”

    Words never to be spoken by Any Oliver in Any timeline. Ever.

    Sadly enough.

    • Drew says:

      Oliver spent about five minutes keeping a secret from Felicity while he himself processed it. On the other hand, Felicity lied to Oliver every day for months while she told him that she was on board with leaving the superhero life behind and starting a new life in Coast City. Their relationship has been all about lies from the start, and it isn’t all on Oliver.

      • John NYC says:

        Not really, he suspected who the child was and sought him out etc. for a lot longer than five minutes. To my point: discuss the situation beforehand with your partner. Hear HER input. Oliver’s first instinct is loner. And that’s what pisses Felicity off as well as the rest of the team since he left them to realize it’s their city too.

        He’s improving, once Barry time travelled and convinced him everyone dies Oliver was flexible enough to modify his instinctive plan. So: hope.

      • Liz says:

        Usually Oliver would have gone to Felicity with his fears and even the DNA sample to do a DNA test. He specifically kept her out of it in a way that felt out of character. He didn’t want to lie to her, that much was clear, but he found it all too easy to do it. He wasn’t going to process, he was always going to lie once the baby mama told him to.

        • Phoenix5634 says:

          All that Oliver had was suspicion at that point…what was he supposed to do, “oh hey Felicity, do you mind running a DNA test for me, I think I might have a son” … And what if it wasn’t his son… He didn’t go to Felicity to run to test cuz he didn’t know or not, merely a suspicion, and didn’t want to start drama when there might not be any. And Oliver is likely keeping it secret now becuz 1, hes processing, he has the right to do that, 2 the mother of his son said if he tells anyone he can never see his son again, 3 Oliver probably wants to know why his mother secretly paid the mother off his son, an her grandson, to disappear from his life and never tell him.

  25. Soo the death of everyone besides Barry can be blamed for the most part on Felicity, right? And Olicity fans wonder why people hate her so much!

    • John NYC says:

      No that’s the usual Oliver controlling everything stuff. Keep Diggle and the rest out of the fight because, well, Oliver knows best etc.

      • Josh says:

        Exactly! But let’s give Dumb$$$ oliver a pass and blame everything on Felicity like always SMH. Last I checked Felicity is still pretty dang Popular too

      • While it was dumb for him not to bring back up, he was making dumb decisions because Felicity decided to irresponsibly confront Oliver about something that is none of her business to begin with!

        • Stark says:

          It is her business.So you would have no problem if your girlfriend had a kid and made a secrect pact with ther ex about it and never told you about it? and when you suspected something was going on and she LIED TO YOUR FACE about it??? I somehow very much doubt that

        • kath says:

          This is the same logic that in the Supergirl episode had the road rage guys blaming Supergirl for their cars being banged up when she stopped them for killing a bunch of school kids.

          One thing the show has been consistent with is that when Oliver excludes his team (Diggle and Felicity) and makes these decisions on his own, things always go very, very wrong. I’m sad that he hasn’t learned anything in over three years.

    • Liz says:

      Where did you buy that logic from? Oliver was the one who was distracted because he was the one who lied. You don’t get to place blame on Felicity for that.

  26. Josie says:

    What was the point of a crossover if we don’t get any new interaction between the shows’ characters than we’ve already seen? I was looking forward to new interactions, was happy with the bit of Cisco/Thea, but that was literally it and nothing this episode.

    Had to laugh at remember Barry and Oliver discussing how he seems “happier”, none of that came across. It felt like a rehashed happy Barry – dark Ollie relationship that we saw last season, when we should be seeing the complete opposite considering both of their current circumstances.

    I don’t understand Oliver’s reasoning. Telling Felicity means shes going to rush down to CC to have a bitch-fight with his baby mama? The woman is the mother of his child, but he doesn’t hold an ounce of a relationship in comparison to what he shares with Felicity – so he agrees completely to her terms because after 4 years he hasn’t learned that secrets come and bite you in the ass.

    Overall, disappointed. Hopefully they use their next crossover to do justice to their other characters. We know Ollie and Barry have a friendship, if you want to build a universe you need to show the nuances in the other characters relationships. This was a chance to build – Thea/Caitlyn, Laurel/Barry, Dig/anyone. But at least we got to see how Ollie wouldn’t get along with anyone on team Flash.

    • John NYC says:

      True, by the end I’d realized there wasn’t all that much in the way of foreshadowing the new show. Fun enough crossover. Barry and Oliver make a great pair.

  27. Phoenix5634 says:

    Favourite/funniest line of the episode, when Barry asks Savage if he rehearsed all that in front of the mirror this morning, and the guy on Oliver’s right( our left) and Savage just looks at him like, really, lol just priceless haha.

  28. Phoenix5634 says:

    I think a lot of you are missing the fact between Oliver and Felicity and this whole trust discussion going on… Oliver didn’t know he had a son, he didn’t even have a suspicion until the last moment of Part 1 of the crossover, and he only found out himself like a minute before Felicity did. Doesn’t Oliver have the right to at least process this new information for a little by himself? Maybe at least until they were done dealing with the the current crisis ( vandal savage ). It’s a pretty big deal learning you had a son, let alone that that Oliver’s mother knew about and paid off to keep hidden…

    • fanta says:

      But the thing is, that scene where Oliver agrees to lie–that’s the same in both timelines. They just didn’t show it in the first timeline. He lies to her in both timelines–in the first one, maybe he would have eventually told her the truth, but in the second, she confronts him, and he has had time to process and he tells her it’s nothing and it doesn’t matter. It’s the second timeline that is completely unacceptable.

      • ranillon says:

        Did you happen to miss the part where Oliver was told that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES HE COULD NOT TELL ANYONE ABOUT HIS SON OR ELSE HE’D NEVER SEE HIM AGAIN? Good god – there are a LOT of unhealthy people here with twisted notions of what relationships are supposed to be like. If Felicity actually loves Oliver when she wouldn’t act like “psycho possessive girlfriend” going behind his back snooping into his private affairs and then instantly blowing her top the moment she finds out he didn’t tell her of a LIFE CHANGING EVENT within two seconds of it happening. I’m sorry, but her behavior in this instance is CLASSIC Borderline Personality Disorder and I wish someone on the show would call her (and Iris and Thea) out when she acts in such over-the-top ways!

        • Liz says:

          The fact is Samantha’s demands would never hold up in court. She has no legal standing keeping him away from his son. Take it to court and Oliver would win visitation rights. So her demands were ridiculous, unrealistic and wrong. He’s even lying to Thea with this when he said he wouldn’t lie to her anymore. The whole thing was pathetic and contrived and it’s really sad that people are blaming Felicity for simply wanting her boyfriend to be honest with her. But anything to hate on Felicity, right?

  29. Phoenix5634 says:

    Why did the staff disappear? I know it’s a lead in for Legends. I have a feeling it’s connected to the ending where Vandals remains our being collected. If somehow he survives or another Earth Vandal learns of what happens here, and steals the staff at a earlier time…

  30. Ashley says:

    Too much baby mama drama, which is the worst storyline in Arrow history, not enough of the crossover. I’m also not feeling Kendra. Hopefully that changes with LoT.

  31. KateFaulkner27 says:

    I enjoyed the two parter, though Barry took the cake with his “Don’t have Oliver train you. Everytime it rains, I can still feel his arrows in my back” quip. That made me LOL so stinking hard!
    **A few points about Olicity tonight.
    1. Oliver lying to Felicity about his son: I get that a lot of people are very, VERY mad about that one, and I would be too… if this secret was Oliver’s way, and his idea. It isn’t, and it’s horrible. Oliver has always been about family, and doing whatever it takes to protect and love them, keep them close. It’s his greatest weakness and his greatest strength because it makes him defend them at all costs… and his connection to them can cause him the greatest pain. It happened with Merlyn. It happened with Ra’s. It’s happening now. This boy is now part of that cycle of love and pain that Oliver is caught up in. I see this as Oliver protecting his son the only way he knows how: by keeping him close, and the less people know, the better. Which, is the same thought process of separation he has had since the beginning; it’s the same process that kept Thea out of his Arrow life, when in the end, being a part of it has helped her grow immensely, and she’s better protected that way. Bottom line, I understand his old habits: it’s his intention to lie to Felicity… but not his desire. He’s stuck in a pretty bad place, making a promise he should not keep.
    1B. As far as Samantha “stealing his child away”… she didn’t. She took her son. The kid is hers too, and at the time Oliver had his fling with her, he certainly was not ready to be a parent. He was an absolute jerk, and she protected her son from a family that she felt was toxic by taking him away, and “accepting” Moira’s deal. And Oliver would never have gone to court over custody, then or now, because that would be disrespecting Samantha and impeding on her rights as well. Oliver would not stoop that low to gain custody over a child that, though the child is his… he has no authority or right over him at the moment. Oliver is a stranger, a biodad. He did not have a chance to be a real dad before, and is stuck being “Mommy’s friend” now just to know the kid. I get why she took William. And Oliver doesn’t have any sway with William now to take him.
    1C. Also, in regards to the blow up for Felicity… Oliver was just processing everything that happened within 24 Hours. He went from superhero boyfriend to superdad. And he didn’t even know it for 9 years. That’s a lot to process without having someone else scream at you, asking you why you did not tell him or her about a son… a son you didn’t know existed until less than 24 hours ago. Trust issues for her makes her blow up, trust issues for him makes him close down. They don’t understand that about each other. That is what’s going to possibly break their relationship up: a lack of understanding about where the other is coming from, and changing old habits.
    **
    I had a very long post but cut it for this. I will post the non-olicity stuff later.

    • amb1973 says:

      How exactly will Baby Mama know if Oliver tells Felicity? Did Baby Mama bug him?

      • John NYC says:

        So then the foundation of Oliver’s new relationship with his son starts with the betrayal of the boy’s mother’s wishes and Oliver’s promise to her?

        Doesn’t sound like a great idea. But it did feed right into Oliver’s certainty to his core that he can fix anything On His Own.

    • Drew says:

      I disagree with you about William being stolen. Oliver was irresponsible when Samantha got pregnant, but Samantha wasn’t exactly responsible herself. She had no right to decide that Oliver shouldn’t be allowed to be a father and grow up. Her decision probably put Oliver and Sara on that boat in the first place.
      She stole William away. She stole the authority to make decisions for him. And Oliver should be pissed about what was taken from him, he shouldn’t be granting her the power to dictate how he relates to his child.
      He should absolutely consider how William will respond and make it easier for him, but he should not be worried about respecting Samantha, because she never respected him. And your use of the term “biodad” was gross. He is William’s father, not a DNA factory.
      I really wish that they allowed Oliver to express more of his pain and anger over this, because it is huge. He should have shut Samantha down, and then he should have reacted much differently when Felicity tore into him.
      They want him to respect women or whatever, but he just looked pathetic.

  32. GraceM says:

    I’m glad they finally addressed the issue of Oliver’s old girlfriend and her son. Something that producers had said they were going to do *last* season on Arrow.

  33. Matty Si says:

    I don’t understand why Samantha doesn’t want anyone knowing Oliver is William’s father. Especially his own girlfriend. I do get what Samantha was saying about Oliver uprooting his son’s world (uprooting wasn’t the term used but you know what I mean). Also, William does not need to be dealing with Olivers Arrow world right now. Too dangerous for a kid. But that being said, he’s 9 years old, he’s old enough to decide if he wants to meet his father. I wonder what Samantha told him. She’s being selfish because she doesn’t want the boy to know she kept him from his father his whole life.

    Sure her not cashing the check is the right thing, but keeping Oliver’s son away from his is the wrong thing.

    • Guest says:

      I don’t think she’s selfish, i think she’s just being protective, and telling the kid that he has a father he never met, that’s not a good idea, letting Oliver into his life as a friend is a much better idea, that way William can grow closer to Oliver and once he’s old enough to understand then she can tell him the truth, and while she does know that Oliver has changed she doesn’t know how much, she’s thinking of her kid.

  34. Phoenix5634 says:

    Idea for next years’ cross over episodes…Arrow/ Flash/ Supergirl, with Grodd/ Solovar , and Gorilla City. Or King Shark and the hinted at, Atlantis storyline from Flash. It’d be awesome a 3 part crossover. And maybe even tie it lightly to the LoTs episode at the end of the week.

  35. Pat says:

    I knew when Barry, Oliver, Kendra and Conrad confronted Vandal Savage the first time and it went so horribly wrong, that Barry was going to change the timeline. Consequences to follow because he did this, now I am really worried. As for Oliver finding out that he has a son, I have to be honest that for me, it just did not fit in for this episode. If anything, it took away the build up of excitement that I was anticipating with what Oliver went to Central City for. I felt like a wall went up and I ran into it and now I am watching a part of a soap opera. So that part of this episode I was not happy with. Cisco was such a gentlemen saying goodbye to Kendra and giving her that necklace. Oh and now we are back to the Malcolm scooping up some of the ashes of Savage. I feel so bad for Thea because her DNA is connected to this man and it looks like his evil ways will once again be coming out and wreaking havoc on Starling city and team Arrow.

  36. herman1959 says:

    I’ve read through all of the posts, and I can’t believe that no one has called Barry out for giving Felicity the DNA report. Now, Barry is my guy, but giving up the report after Oliver had JUST asked him not to was wrong. And, yes, he didn’t know what it was for, but that doesn’t make it right.

  37. cr says:

    Did the producers not watch Gilmore Girls season 6? Bad idea keeping the child a secret from the current girlfriend. :(

  38. Guest says:

    Felicity went out of line, she seemed more like a physcho girlfriend who had to know every little thing that was on Oliver’s mind, she was being selfish, when she was dealing with her Ray issues and her mom issues she asked him to give her space, yet when he’s dealing with life changeing news she didn’t wanna do the same for him, she should’ve given him time to process the news himself and then let him tell her after dealing with an imortal. And he didn’t tell her about his kid not hers because he was hounoring his son’s mother’s wishes because she was thinking of her kid first, not because he didn’t wanna tell Felicity, but because he wants to be apart of his son’s life. And the mom didn’t steal the kid, it’s her son, pre-shipwreck Oliver would’ve never taken responsibility for any child, or comit to anyone, he certainly wasn’t ready for a kid, she did what she belived was best for her kid. And even if she is the one in the grave, it still wouldn’t mean that Oliver were to raise the child, she probably has someone who she wants to take care of her child if she were to die, maybe the kid already has a father who isn’t the father bilocgicly but other wise.

  39. amb1973 says:

    Told everyone it wasn’t Connor. No one listens. Also, called the baby mama storyline sucking. Here comes the angst and idiocy, just like S3.

  40. tarotx says:

    I think this boy William was originally going to be Connor but they didn’t consider the whitewash backlash that came after the original episode aired.

    Maybe this Universe’s Connor will turn out to be Oliver’s grandson?

  41. Joey Padron says:

    Part two of crossover was really good. Interesting what will happened with Barry changing the timeline on the show. Glad the team defeat Vandal now their friends will have to defeat him in LoT. Glad Oliver got to meet his son for first time. Sucks he have to keep a secret from Felcity for now.

  42. datdudemurphy says:

    The baby mama pointed out that a child would not work well in Oliver’s life….not even knowing about his vigilante activities.

    How many times has Oliver had his home or his lair invaded by someone? If it was his weekend with his child, do you really think he could just call “time out” and have reasonable expectation that the bad guys would leave him alone for the weekend?
    Maybe you prefer that he just knowingly endangers the kid?
    Or that he hangs up the bow for good?

    Oliver agreed to the baby mama’s “tell no one or else” demand because he had a lot to process. He had things to figure out. He needed the time to do that. It was the right decision at the time…..
    That doesn’t mean that after a month of thinking about the situation…or even a couple days…. he might not have gone back to her and said “Nah, it’s my kid…you aren’t making the rules”

    It’s not ignoring character development.
    The shippers whining about Felicity not being told immediately ….you guys need to take your Xanax, and dial it back just a bit.
    We’ve all known about the kid a lot longer than Oliver has…..give the man some in-show time to process.

  43. Shep says:

    Everyone is bashing Oliver for lying but that’s the only way to keep his son in his life. That was the mother’s condition and if he broke it he’d just be lying to her. Maybe you think Oliver should have handled it different but you should at least understand why he did it. It makes sense. And I’m sure it’s killing him lying to Felicity.

    • John NYC says:

      Only because he let it get that far by not trusting Felicity right off the bat and bringing her into the problem when he first had suspicions so that they could work it out together. That lack of trust is the foundation of her anger as I see it.

      Together just not being his go to quite yet.

      • Shep says:

        Yeah I get what you mean. He probably should’ve told her but I’m just saying I get why he didn’t. And maybe he wanted to be sure it was his kid before telling her. You have to admit he’s in a pretty tough spot with everything that is going on.

        • John NYC says:

          Oh very true: once he made contact with Samantha the situation got very tough: but a situation largely of his own making since he hand’t trusted Felicity beforehand enough to involve her in this momentous issue for both go them as a couple from his first suspicions when Samantha had made no demands that could force him to such difficult choices.

          And that instinctive going on his own or bulling through HIS way, that’s the crusher that I see Felicity reacting to. And that’s been a theme of his for a very long time and so, VERY in character.

  44. Dmac says:

    Ah yes, lets go back to season 3 angst because that worked so well.

  45. Gale says:

    I’m surprisingly chill regarding this baby mama drama. Oliver is totally wrong about the lie but I kinda see why he did. After all Barry just told him Felicity broke up with him after he told her about the kid. Not true, of course. I just hope the show takes time in the next episode to have Oliver voice why he thought it is necessary to lie to Felicity. May not agree with his decision but I find it easier to understand actions if I know exactly what the motivation is. This is such an emotional episode (and Stephen and Emily were superb as always) and I wish it wasn’t packed in with all the LOT spinoff stuff. Speaking of LOT, yeah, not watching that. The time it took away from Arrow to introduce all this characters has made me resentful. No, thanks.

  46. Rob Watkins says:

    I’m actually more interested in Laurel’s reaction seeing as how she’s the one he cheated on when he conceived William.

    • John NYC says:

      Hard to top sleeping with her sister and sort of having her die because of that.

      Sister v. random hookup….

      • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

        “Learning of Oliver’s son William, Laurel is visibly rocked. She then steps away in a daze, looks off into the distance… as we flash back to the summer of 2003, when she claimed she was away at lawyer camp….”

  47. Hypey0620 says:

    Was anyone else distracted by the setting of the random farm house? Were we supposed to know that location? I think they might have mentioned something about it at the beginning but I was too distracted by the horse casually sneaking between the bars of the gate in the background (seriously, it happens right when Cisco and Kendra are talking by the barn, I think Emily’s name is on the credits at the bottom of the screen). For the rest of that episode I wondered where the horse went…

    • KatsMom says:

      They just made a crack about how they felt like the country house in the middle of nowhere had been done before, which I took as a sly nod to Avengers: AoU when the gang was lying low at Hawkeye’s place.

  48. brian says:

    I have to join the chorus of lots of fans out there: this manufactured drama doesn’t seem real or true to the characters at all. A friend of mine and I texted – both hating this part of the story. I hope the production team listens to comments: I’m not seeing anyone who is loving this storyline.

  49. lrdslvrhnd says:

    Y’know, if I were fighting an immortal baddie, and he turned to dust… I’m *pretty* sure I’d gather up the dust and scatter it as wide as I can. And given Felicity’s private jet (…and when is she gonna get brought up on charges of misappropriation of company funds…?) and Barry’s speed, that’s a pretty wide range indeed.