Arrow Season 3 Burning Questions Answered: The Next Big Bad, a New Canary and More

Arrow Laurel Is Black CanaryA different sort of Big Bad, a Shamelessly Bad Dad and a possibly new Canary are among the twists The CW’s Arrow has on tap for Season 3.

Just hours after the comic-book series unleashed its “Unthinkable” sophomore finale, TVLine invited cast members to field some burning questions. Here is (some of) what they shared.

RELATED | Quotes of the Week from Arrow’s Felicity and Other Shows

WHO WILL FOLLOW IN SLADE WILSON’S BOOTSTEPS? | Arrow lead Stephen Amell knows — but declined to identify — who the Big Bad for Season 3 will be, though he did allow this much about Oliver’s next adversary: Whereas Slade was “omnipresent,” “I don’t think that will necessarily be the case in Season 3,” he offered. “It’s going to be a little bit different than in Season 2.”

RELATED | Arrow Ups John Barrowman to Series Regular: ‘I Am Excited to Explore What Is Yet to Come’

WHAT IS MALCOLM’S PLAN FOR THEA? | Already miffed with her brother Oliver and freshly betrayed by boyfriend Roy’s crimefighting secrets, Thea was last seen fleeing town in her newly discovered dad’s limo. John Barrowman — who has been promoted to a series regular for Season 3 — suspects that Malcolm Merlyn will “groom” his little girl for a greater and assuredly nefarious purpose, so that she may do right (meaning wrong) by those who dissed her. “He’s got to train her to be a powerhouse, to be a tough bitch,” Barrowman theorizes. “She’s tough now, but she’s got to be tougher.” (The actor’s other big wish for Season 3: less claustrophobic Dark Archer duds. “I’ve already said to [exec producer] Andrew Kreisberg, ‘I want an ouftit like Stephen [Amell]’s, but in black.'”)

RELATED | Arrow Star Weighs In on That Finale Scene: I Was Like, ‘Oh No, The Fans Are Going to Cry’

IS LAUREL OFFICIALLY ON TRACK TO TAKE OVER AS CANARY? | Especially with little sis Sara rejoining Nyssa and the League of Assassins, and after that significant gifting of a leather jacket? “What do you think?” Katie Cassidy responds with a big smile, adding: “I do think the torch has been passed. I get that feeling, and I think everybody else gets that feeling.” Perhaps just to be prepared, the actress — who just weeks ago was quite evasive on the topic — affirms that she already is amping up her workout regimen. Brandishing an impressive bare bicep for us, she boasted, “Check this out! Hel-lo!”

Want more scoop on Arrow, or for any other show? Email insideline@tvline.com and your question may be answered via Matt’s Inside Line.

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425 Comments
  1. EJ386 says:

    I don’t want Laurel as Black Canary, everything else sounds great!

    • enri says:

      Exactly. Don’t see her as black canary.

      • Jack says:

        Well she was cast on the show with the intention of becoming the Black Canary, so the writers/producers, and everyone involved in that process have envisioned her as BC from the start, or she wouldn’t have gotten the role of Laurel Lance. My guess is she will make the haters’ jobs very difficult to hate when she steps into the role because it will be incredible c:

        • John NYC says:

          I suspect you’re right: they just took their time because they pretty much knew they’d have the time.

        • Ben says:

          I hope so Jack. I won’t hate – the thing I was MOST hoping was that it would not mean Sara died, and I hope Caity Lotz ends up having an ongoing role within the show. Provided Sara exists and is around from time to time (and on the side of good), I’m happy to see how Laurel as BC plays out.

          • Mikael says:

            I thought they were going to kill off Sara in order to make Laurel the BC and it made me hate Laurel because I like Caity Lotz so much. But now that Sara has just left town, I’m very open to see Laurel’s transition. I doubt she’ll go full-on BC this season; they will probably have her train and maybe in Season 4 she’ll officially be BC. Katie Cassidy does well as a badass character so I’m expecting Laurel will get better as the writers make her less of the damsel character.

        • As long as she looks cute in the outfit the hatas will still find a way to hate.

          • Dominator of destruction says:

            Is if she will look as good as Caity Lotz in her Canary outfit,that aint going to happen

        • Tom says:

          As the series progressed they could have easily changed direction, I don’t see her as BC and it would be unbelievable if she became BC with only basic self defense training.

          • John NYC says:

            It would be unbelievable if the pretty little rich boy Oliver had been shown to instantly become the Arrow.

            So they didn’t.

          • GreenArrow12 says:

            Yes, cause Roy had skills at beginning of this season to become Red Arrow Or Arsenal, but at the end of season 2 he was. They could turn Laurel into BC the same way.

        • Nicole says:

          While I don’t want her to become the bc, and I’m not the biggest laurel fan out there I do hope she does a great job. I have faith that Katie Cassidy could step it up when it comes to that. They need to not make her character so melodramatic and I think that becoming the bc will change that.

          • Dominator of destruction says:

            A suit won’t change her,her personality needs to change as does her frail body,as does her ability to act like a badass without crossing bitch territory

        • Jim says:

          With the way they’ve written Laurel’s character, I just don’t know how they can make her turning BC believable at at this point, but I’m *trying* to be open-minded. I’ve never liked her character simply because she was constantly pissed off at someone. And she comes off so arrogant & self-righteous, it’s hard to root for her at all. Then she spent most of season 2 drinking & pill-popping like a college freshman. Yeah, no thanks. I couldn’t be less interested in Laurel.

        • Ella says:

          She will be AWESOME. Cassidy was born to play strong, badass, snarky roles – it’s where she shines, which is why the damsel in distress way they have written her has not been well received. I think when she takes on the mantel, she will do it in spectacular fashion. I also want to say it is so wonderful to read an article without a single mention of “Olicity”.

          • Sheriff says:

            Don’t diss Olicity, they give Arrow it’s freshness. Oliver only smiles around Felicity. If it wasn’t for her, Oliver’s face would look like it was botoxed.

          • Babs says:

            I am so glad to know someone feels the same as i do. I think season 3 sound all about
            Felicity. I think she is cute, but do not like the romance between her and Oliver.

        • JC says:

          I know that Katie will give justice to the role. She is a fantastic actress :)

        • Naazneen says:

          Im looking forward to Katie silencing her critics. Or the fangirls. Most likely the latter.

        • kath says:

          Reality often turns out to be different than what you envision.

      • carrinebchaud says:

        in comic books of which i am no expert black canary is not Sarah Lance, it’s Dinah Lance and/or Laurel Dinah Lance so… Now she can’t become martial art expert in a few months???

      • Yeah, i agree. Nothing against Katie C, but the only Black Canary for me will be always Sara Lance/ Caity L.

    • Sparky says:

      Unfortunately we are probably stuck with her as BC. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and she can up her game as well as the writers so that she fits in with everyone else. But if she starts telling Diggle and Felicity what to do then the gloves are off….lol!!!!!

      • DarkDefender says:

        I’ll say this. If Katie Cassidy can do the Salmon Ladder like Caity did.. I’ll buy her as canary.

    • Lucy says:

      Agreed.

    • Jill says:

      Yeah, I don’t really buy Laurel as Black Canary. We’ll see! Love that Thea is off with Malcom. So much narrative goodness will come from that.

      • LK says:

        Well she’s BC in the comics, so they really do have to stick to that.

        • Justin says:

          No, they don’t.

        • Tom says:

          They have made several changes from the comics already, they can do what they want.

          • Ray says:

            Nothing about Laurel fits the Black Canary in the comics EXCEPT her name. Black Canary was trained & earned the title before she even met Oliver. Black Canary loves & cares for Sin. Black Canary has ties to the League of Assassins. Black Canary is a world-class martial artist. ALL of these characteristics fit SARA not LAUREL. She even uses a sonic device. So if you want to go by the comics, then Sara is most definitely the Black Canary. Laurel has the name, but nothing that matters.

          • carrinebchaud says:

            @Ray, but then why in the world would you invent a character with the name Laurel Dinah Lance but make another character be the black canary in the very long run of the series? Why the Laurel Dinah Lance character exists? It’s like why name a character Thea “Dearden” Queen (emphase on darden) with the nickname “speedy” if she will never be the comic book character?

    • And yet…that’s like saying you don’t want Bruce Wayne to be Batman or Clark Kent to be Superman.

      • Katy says:

        Imo If Laurel is to be the Black Canary then show us her evolution. We know Clark Kent works towards being Superman, just like we know Bruce Wayne worked towards being Batman. With Laurel if she is going to be BC then have her work towards it.

        • That was my takeaway from the final question and answer, that she’s going to train for it.

          • Katy says:

            I hope you are right it would be much more interesting.

          • And she has to train a lot. Because nobody becomes the kind of person Sara is or Olliver over night.
            But I really don’t want to see her as BC. Another hero maybe, but I can’t buy Laurel as BC after Sara, I simply can’t.

          • Relatively speaking. What training did Huntress have BEFORE Ollie trained her?

          • Jon says:

            Helena had training before Oliver, it was just never something we saw on screen. However there was a run of companion comic books, written by the same people who write the show that ran alongside the episode in season 1 that showed alot of “extra” content like this. Issue #11 tells us that Helena went to Sicily and contacted a group of badass mafia hitmen called La Morte Sussurrata, staying with them for a year after Michael’s death. Trading sex (the only currency she had) for training.

          • This belief people have that Laurel won’t become Black Canary (for whatever reason) reminds me of the people who argued that Chloe Sullivan would change her name to Lois Lane and move to Metropolis at the end of Smallville.

        • carrinebchaud says:

          yeah because the creator of this series are idiot who will instantly Thae darden aka speedy into speedy and laurel dinah lance into black canary??? come on, we can trust them to do it right!

      • Rachel says:

        Except that Clark becoming Superman is not an obstacle to their Olicity ship which is the only reason they watch lol. Couldn’t care less about Felicity or Olicity so I’m just really happy Laurel is finally going to get the importance she deserves.

        • I wonder if they’ll into Firestorm’s father at some point. That’s who Felicity married in the comics according to DC U Wikia.

          • Justin says:

            Like I said, you’re splitting hairs to support your weak arguement about Laurel. The Lex Luthor that is WIDELY known by most people, is the Lex that SV AND the animated series of the 90s resembled. Nothing you say is going to change that.

          • What people know and the facts aren’t necessarily the same. Factually, Luthor in Smallville was as different from the version of the comics as Laurel in Arrow is. The modern version never spent time in Smallville. He didn’t lose his hair in a meteor shower ( he lost it due to stress). The version from the 60’s, which did spend time in Smallville, was a local (the TV version was not) and a scientist (the TV version was not)

            Your criteria was “Profession, looks, attitude, personality, nothing.”

            Smallville Luthor from the Silver Age was a scientist.

            Smallville Luthor from the TV Luthor was not.

            That’s Profession.

            The one from the comics lost his hair in a fire (Silver Age) and stress (Modern Age). The one on the show lost it in a meteor shower. The one from the Modern Age was fat until he cloned himself a younger body.

            That’s Looks.

            Attitude and Personality? PLEASE. Luthor on the TV show was NOT a comic booky villain foaming at the mouth swearing revenge on Superman. The one from the Silver Age was.

          • Justin says:

            The Gene Hackman version is not the most well known version of Lex. I know you think you are en expert on all things DC, but youre wrong. Nothing you will say will change the fact that your Laurel arguement is very, very, weak.

          • You think it’s weak because you refuse to address the argument. I’m giving you specific examples in which the version of Lex shown in Smallville is different from the one in the comics. You’re debating me instead of debating the argument.

            If I tell you “the version from the TV show is not a scientist like the one from the Silver Age comics that came from Smallville” your counterargument should be focused on how that is wrong, not a blanket statement “you’re wrong and your argument is weak”. That’s not a proper way to debate. You debate the facts with other facts. You have to prove how the two are the same, if you can.

            Can you?

          • murley says:

            Actually, Justin, saying someone is wrong because they are wrong is a pretty weak argument. I gotta agree with Michael here. For the record I have thus far been underwhelmed by the Laurel Lance we have seen on Arrow. But I am open to seeing her transformation. Skeptical but open.

        • wonderwall says:

          It’s not about the shippers… Not everyone who ships Oliver/Felicity hates Laurel. And not everyone who hates Laurel ships Oliver/Felicity. People have valid concerns about Laurel being BC, it’s not about the ship, it’s about how Laurel is being characterized at the moment and whether KC has the acting chops to actually portray BC. Some people genuinely believe that she doesn’t seem like the right fit to be BC no matter what her name is.
          So yes, it’s not a shipper thing. It’s a Laurel isn’t right for the role thing.

          • enri says:

            This is exactly how I feel.

          • Dominator of destruction says:

            Exactly.How are we to believe Laurel who has been a damsel for 2 years,a drug and alcohol addict,and someone with her stick figure with no where near the training of Sara going to be even half believable as Canary who is suppose to be at the very least Oliver good.This is a serious mistake by the writers and its going to cost them

          • Christina says:

            Exactly how I feel. Thank you.

          • Anna says:

            I’m a comic fan and the only thing Laurel has in common with BC in the show is her name. I don’t know what Olicity has to do with Laurel being BC, but I–for one–am rooting for the role to remain with Sara/Caity Lotz.

          • Fan says:

            Considering the only excellent actor got killed off in this show I refuse to accept the acting argument on why KC should or should not become BC

          • Lucy says:

            I just don’t like Laurel – my dislike of her has nothing to do with liking anyone else. I’ve disliked the character since the first episode and I probably would have quit watching if I didn’t like Team Arrow so much. I love the dynamic between Diggle, Oliver, and Felicity. I’m actually not all that crazy about Olive and Felicity as a couple – at least not yet. I can say, however, that I hate the idea of Laurel and Oliver as a couple. They are a toxic mess. And while I had a love/hate relationship with Sara, Caity Lotz did such an amazing job with the action that Katie Cassidy will have very large shoes to fill. Based on what I have seen so far, I don’t think she can do it.

          • THIS! It’s really difficult to see Laurel as BC, after we had seeing how amazing Sara is. I just can’t picture anyone else as Black Canary, only Sara!

        • Rebecca Parker says:

          It’s really dismissive to say people don’t like Laurel because they’re Olicity shippers. I like Olicity, sure, but I also love Sara/Oliver. I just don’t like Laurel or Katie Cassidy’s acting in this role.

          • Ben says:

            I hate the idea, in fact, that any direction that a show takes that I don’t like even possibly could be because I ship anything, because I don’t ship (ok, I make an exception for certain pairs where the endgame is critical, like Chuck/Sarah, but where there are triangles and stuff going on I am happy to let the writers choose the love interest they feel is best).

            In my case, I wish they had made Laurel a more sympathetic character. It’s not the actress but the choices the producers and writers have made with that character. But they have chosen to put themselves into that position, and so now they need to earn the right for us to like Laurel as the BC – they have to show that Laurel is growing as a person, not just show her physical growth,

          • wonderwall says:

            I think it’s a mix of the acting/writing that’s making Laurel a character that can’t be believable as BC. Katie Cassidy has stated she hasn’t read the comics and based on her interviews, she has very superficial knowledge about Dinah. I feel like she needs to do her hw over the hiatus because KCs acting (for me) is part of the reason why she’s not a sympathetic character.
            I also think that the writers need to earn the BC arc by making Laurel grow, I hope they don’t just hand Laurel the gift of fighting/emotional stability like they did with everything else about her character’s comeback (sorry, I still can’t believe she’s a recovered alcoholic/druggie after a few months).

          • Dominator of destruction says:

            I don’t ship anybody and i hate Laurel i hate the way she is written and hate the way she is portrayed by the actress ditch Laurel bring back Sara and Nyssa

        • Mary says:

          I feel the same way. Let the oliciters have their “moments” with long stares, soft violins and near-kisses…or even better, let Ollie have a real romance with Felicity, so that we won’t have to sit through another season of Olicity “will they, won’t they” ship tease. I just want to see Laurel’s evolution into the Black Canary. If the oliciters get what they want, they might even get off Laurel’s/Katie’s case, because they will be swimming in “feels”.

          • Nicole says:

            LOL, seriously. I love the show and I support the cast but the Olicity fans have made it almost unbearable for me to continue with it. I really hope the writers maintain the integrity of the comics and don’t pander to their psychotic demands but it seems as though they are forcing it, even though the dynamic between Oliver and Felicity is completely platonic. Positioning her 2 inches from his face is just uncomfortable to watch and frankly, Felicity, who was once hilarious and cool, has gone into lovesick puppy mode and become completely infuriating.

          • Pam says:

            that’s the funny part I think that everyone deep down knows that Laurel being BC means she will be w/Oliver. this character is in the way of the Olicity ship but she was going to always be in the way as long as her name is Laurel Lance. This show has been showing all of us since day one that these two people are still hung up on each other so whether they do the we are going to try to be just friends routine or not. the second Laurel learned who Oliver truly is aka the Arrow it was on. The girl is already crushing on the guy, you had Sara basically hand the mantle of BC and Oliver back to her sister so for S3 there will be a tease but I doubt it’s has anything to do with Oliver/Felicity because Laurel is not only back in that game she finally made to the IN crowd! the best and worst would be a triangle (Laurel/Oliver/Felicity) but that would be about as much fun as watching Nate lose to Dan/Serena over and over again…lol

          • AJ says:

            Not everyone who has concerns regarding where Laurel is heading, whether it be BC or the new district attorney, ships ‘Olicity’. As someone above me articulately stated people have valid reasons why they don’t like Laurel or don’t find it believable if she turns into BC, one of the main ones being how she has been characterised.
            Some ‘Olicity’ shippers are very vocal about their love for that ship, let them be. They have every right to vocalise their opinions on fictional characters as does every other viewer.
            There are also many viewers who support Laurel becoming BC and they have every right to. However, what really makes me frustrated are comments like these that feel the need to attack a certain fan-base, it immediately discredits your comment, in my opinion, when you appear condescending towards another fan-base. While you, along with many others, think that ‘Olicity’ shippers hate on Laurel is fine, albeit slightly offensive to that particular fan-base, it can be expressed in a less condescending manner as you are right that some ‘Olicity’ shippers may hate on Laurel, just like it’s feasible that Diggle supporters don’t like Laurel or Laurel fans don’t like Felicity (boy that was a long sentence).
            People who are fans of certain characters may dislike another character for completely different reasons and it isn’t fair to any of them that people merely speculate why and then cast that sweeping generalisation onto the entire fan-base.
            I find it frustrating that it’s so difficult to find discussions about characters/plots on t.v. shows without people being rude to actors/actress’ or fan-bases. It is possible for people to have opposing opinions and still have discussions and make valid cases for their reasoning’s whilst being respectful.
            Sorry i just unloaded all that on your comment, this is just an accumulation of me constantly reading spiteful comments about other fan-bases that’s just fueled this ire in me. Ironically, i didn’t mean to attack your comment whilst simultaneously telling people they shouldn’t attack, i apologise for that, didn’t want you to feel as if i’ve victimised you or something. I also apologise for making such a long comment. That is getting progressively longer for no apparent reason.

        • Bobbee says:

          I am not a “fan girl” or an “olicity” dreamer. I want a well written and well acted show. It has been thus far a good show, except for whiny, irritating Laurel. I don’t know if it is the actress or the writing but her character just stinks. The whole show stops the second she comes on screen and she has zero chemistry with Stephen Amell.

      • Justin says:

        Arrows Laurel Lance is nothing like her comic counter part. The only similar thing between them is their name, and even that is very loose. So Arrows Laurel Lance becoming Black Canary is nothing like Clark or Bruce becoming who they are supposed to be.

        • Given how many variations of a character the comics can have, this is really academic. Luthor in Superman The Movie and Luthor in Smallville were not the same. They were still Lex Luthor.

          • Justin says:

            Wrong. The character of Lex Luthor always resembled some version of the character in comics. This character named Laurel Lance is nothing like any version of Black Canary that has ever been in any DC comic.

          • That statement can apply to many characters that have been translated to movies. Keaton’s Batman, with his black armor and grapple gun and Batmobile was unlike any version of Batman that had ever existed before.

          • Justin says:

            You are nitpickng at very little things like the change of Batmans suit. The Laurel Lance of this tv show is NOTHING like the Black Canary of comic lore. Profession, looks, attitude, personality, nothing.

          • Luthor in Smallville was nothing like the version from the comics, other than being rich. In the comics there was never a Lionel Luthor. Lex never spent time in Smallville. He never knew Clark when they were teens. And the differences go on.

          • Justin says:

            Wrong. Luthor in Smallville is exactly like how Luthor in the comics is portrayed.

          • Not at the time, and really not since. The comic book version has never reflected the one from the show no matter how many times they’ve tried to replicate it.

            Prior to Smallville and during the early seasons, the one from the show was very different from the one in the comics. Their only real similarity was that they were rich.

          • Justin says:

            That just isn’t true. Lex Luthor of Smallville was exactly like his comic book counter part.

          • It is true. You need to read them again, man. The TV version was nothing like the comic book version, other than being rich. What is it you think they had in common? It wasn’t Lionel. It wasn’t the time he spent in Smallville. It wasn’t being Clark’s age (other than after he cloned himself and Neron restored his youth). Luthor came from Suicide Slum, where he grew up with Perry White.

          • Justin says:

            The only one who needs to do research is you since you know very little about Lex Luthor. Look, your Laurel arguement is weak. Comparing this character that is on the Arrow show to Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne is ridiculous. Simpe as that.

          • I asked you a question. What do you think the TV Luthor from the first seasons of Smallville had in common with the comic book version other than their wealth? Lionel didn’t exist in the comics, never did until after the show came on. Luthor never spent time in Smallville (other than in the Silver Age, which was vastly different from the show).

          • For instance, the Luthor from the Silver Age that spent time in Smallville (he was a local) was a scientist. He was working on creating a creature made of protoplasm when his laboratory caught fire and Superboy put it out, which is how he lost his hair). The one from the TV series was NOT a scientist. I remember an episode in which he remarked that when he told someone, either Chloe or Lana, that he had his scientists checking something for him since he himself not being a scientist couldn’t do it.

            Even when compared to the version of Luthor he most closely resembles, there are still differences. One was a local inhabitant of Smallville and a scientist. The other was not. One lost his hair in a fire, the other lost it in a meteor shower.

          • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

            I loved that particular Lex Hair Loss story — I had that comic book!

          • Justin says:

            The Lex Luthor known by millions of people is what the SV version and animated series version of the 90s was based off of. So once again, this arguement about Laurel is weak since she is nothing like any version of Black Canary ever seen before.

          • The version of Lex known by millions would be the Gene Hackman version. Luthor in all media, from Smallville to TAS to Krypto, has been based on the Byrne/Wolfman version from the 80’s reboot (as will be the Eisenberg version in Man of Steel 2. Goyer has already said he’ll be a billionaire, just like the modern version).

            I’m giving you specific ways in which the Smallville TV version differs from the only comic book version he resembles.

            Laurel on the TV show doesn’t have to be a carbon copy of the comic book version. Lex sure wasn’t. Hell, CLARK hasn’t been a carbon copy of the version millions of people know for a long time.

          • Justin says:

            The Hacka,n version of Lex is not the best known version. The rich billionaire version who is one day to become president is. I know you think youre an expert on DC lure, but you are not and nothing you say or example will make your arguement about Laurel anymore valid.

          • You’ve yet to say anything to make your argument valid. You gave a set of criteria, which I used to show you how you’re wrong.

            Like I said countless times before, OTHER than being rich, the version from Smallville had NOTHING in common with the one in the comics. You accused me of not knowing anything about the comics, so I proved to you that I do know more than you think.

            Even when compared to the version from the comics he’s more alike, the version from Smallville is still VASTLY different from the version in the comics, just like Laurel on the show is different from the version in the comics.

            Your opinion that my argument is weak is just that, an opinion. You need facts to prove that is weak. Not keep repeating it over and over again.

          • Justin says:

            You can’t handle the fact that I proved you wrong. Deal with it. You can go on and on about your silver age version of Lex. I already stated the the Lex version Known WORLD Wide is rich billionaire. That is what you can’t handle.

          • Justin, you got tangled in your own repetition. I’m the one who told you over and over again that the only similarity between the two is their wealth. That other than that single fact they have NOTHING else in common.

            Your response to that was to accuse me of not knowing anything about the character’s history in the comics.

            I’ve shown you that I do in fact know a lot about it, and brought up the Silver Age version because that’s the ONLY one that had ANYTHING to do with Smallville PRIOR to the airing of the show.

            NO other version of the character had ANYTHING to do with Smallville EXCEPT for that one.

            The Modern Age version (the rich one) never spent time in Smallville. He came from Suicide Slum. His father was NOT Lionel Luthor, he had another name (Hiram, I think it was, though that may have been Lex’s grandfather), and he was certainly not rich. He was a working man who Lex killed for the insurance money (a plot point that on the show was given to Lionel).

            There are NO similarities between the comic book version of Lex and the TV version of Lex other than their wealth, a point I’ve made multiple times. I asked you, also multiple times, to tell me what YOU think they have in common OTHER than their wealth, and you’ve yet to do that.

          • Justin says:

            Thanks for proving Michael that you know nothing about DC comics or Lex Luthor.. All you’ve shown is how much you do not know. Your condesending attitude will not change that.

          • Once again, you’re the one that hasn’t proven their argument. I keep asking you to, you keep refusing. That’s because you can’t prove it. You cannot prove that the Lex from Smallville and the Lex from the comics of the Modern Age or the Silver Age are similar because they’re not. If they were, you’d have proven it by now instead of keep arguing nothing.

          • wonderwall says:

            Y’all need to just agree to disagree :p I guess we all have a different understanding of the comics, nothing wrong with that :)

          • Justin says:

            Don’t try to turn this around on me. I gave you my answer very clearly. You just do not like it because I am not saying what you want to hear. I am not telling you that you are right or cowering to what you believe is your better knowledge and wisdom. You think that you can bully people into agreeing with your view. You are wrong.

          • You gave a set of criteria I used to prove to you how the version of Lex is DIFFERENT from the one in the comics of the Silver Age and the comics of the Modern Age.

            What I asked you to prove is HOW the version from the TV show is SIMILAR to the one from the comics OTHER that that are wealthy.

            That requires that you list their similarities, if any, which you refuse to do.

            I’m not telling you to agree with me, I’m asking you to back up your argument with PROOF and FACTS, not opinion. That’s how a debate works.

          • Justin says:

            No, I answered your question. You just don’t like my answer and now want to keep hounding me until I tell you that you are right. Not gonna happen.

          • You didn’t answer the question.

          • Justin says:

            Yes I did.

          • No, you didn’t. I asked you how the Lex in Smallville and the Lex from the comics are the same other than that they both have money (which requires listing their similarities) and you’ve yet to answer that.

            All you’ve done is repeat that my argument is weak, which is not the same as addressing any of the points I’ve brought up.

          • Repeat your opinion that is weak. You need to use facts to prove that it’s weak, which you’ve yet to do.

          • Justin says:

            I’m not going to play your game, Mark. You’re being very rude and condescending.

          • Brent says:

            Author has had as many origins as Superman. The Golden Age version of Luthor was your basic mad scientist (and he started with red hair). Somewhere along the line he lost his hair for no apparent reason except that another Superman villain – Ultra-Humanite – was bald and wasn’t being used anymore. When DC introduced Superboy around 1948 they decided to put Luthor in Smallville to show the “origin” of the Superman-Luthor feud. This was effectively the Silver Age origin, which introduced the fire into the story. When John Byrne rebooted Superman for DC in the 1980s, Luthor was an older, businessman; wealthy, unscrupulous, and able to buy just about anything or anyone except Lois Lane (who he wanted to be the next Mrs. Luthor) and Superman. In the six issue miniseries we saw Luthor lose his hair. The current Luthor, in DC’s New 52 reboot is a brilliant, cold, unscrupulous scientist who hates Superman simply because he’s an alien. As of right now he’s a member of the Justice League, and Superman isn’t! So a character’s origins are whatever the writers and editors decide it is going to be.

            In fact the Black Canary-Green Arrow relationship has so many different versions that it’s almost as convoluted as the Superman story. Ollie and Dinah (that’s right, she wasn’t always Laurel) we’re married…and then divorced. In fact, in the current DC continuity I’m not even sure that they know each other!!

          • Yep. Luthor hated Superman for being an alien before the new 52, though. That was there since the 80’s but got lost following the multiple reboots that followed Birthright I think.

          • AJ says:

            I think i understand your reasoning to illustrate that the character doesn’t have to be a carbon-copy of the comic book version to transform into that character. I may not know much about Lex Luthor and how his portrayal has varied on-screen but my concern about Laurel becoming BC is how believable that transition will be, if it happens.
            I feel like her becoming strong enough and acquire the skillsand drive needed to become Black Canary would dominate the show as she is a big character and not just a sidekick. Going to the root of your issue – why some people don’t think Laurel will become Black Canary is the defining essence of Black Canary, that was still present in the Lex Luthor adaptions, isn’t in Laurel and will most likely be a long time coming if they want to show that evolution in her. That’s my reasoning at least.

        • Anna says:

          THIS. She is nothing like her comic counterpart. I don’t see why Sara Lance can’t stay as BC. She has an awesome backstory, and she’s…AWESOME.

        • Jim says:

          I’m so glad you pointed this out. Laurel doesn’t have ANY of the characteristics of Black Canary. No relationship with the League of Assassins, no relationship with Sin, she certainly isn’t a world-class martial artist (nor could someone become one in a few months), and Black Canary certainly wasn’t trained by Oliver. She earned the titled long before she even met him. So the ‘name’ issue seems irrelevant. Laurel doesn’t resemble Black Canary in any way.

        • Ray says:

          I completely understand the point you’re making regarding Laurel being nothing like her comic counterpart. Some people just get off on being argumentative and it’s just not worth the time.

      • If Bruce or Clark were kinda boring, then no, I don’t. My first Batman was Terry McGinnis; I don’t care about names or comic book canon, especially with Black Canary, a character I didn’t even know existed until she was on Smallville. What matters to me is how good the show is, and that’s it. So have the Canary be Sara, or Felicity, or hell, put Diggle in black leather, whatever, as long as the show is still good. If they can do a great storyline for Laurel and the character works as the Canary, then great, I’m on board; I love Katie Cassidy, and I always wanted her to have some better material on Arrow. But what I care about is the show staying as good as it is now, so if that means Dinah Lance isn’t fun or compelling as the Black Canary, then Dinah Lance shouldn’t be the Black Canary.

        • The thing is that Dinah Laurel Lance IS the Black Canary, same as Bruce Wayne is Batman, Clark Kent it Superman, and Barry Allen is the Flash.

          This is an undeniable fact. The issue at hand is the way the character has been written to date, which hasn’t sat well with many viewers for a variety of reasons.

          • ? says:

            Actually Wally West was the Flash for like 30 years. Barry Allen has only been the Flash again for like two or three years after coming back from being dead that whole time. Ask anyone on the street who Robin’s secret identity is and they will say Dick Grayson, but Dick Grayson hasn’t been Robin for over 30 years either. He’s Nightwing now and other people are Robin (Tim Drake was Robin for like 20 years). There are like eight different versions of the Green Lantern, not just Hal Jordan, and I can’t keep them all straight. Batman may be Bruce Wayne and Superman may be Clark Kent, but that’s really as far as it goes. A name really doesn’t mean squat in comics otherwise, at least with DC. Aside from those two, they’re not synonymous with the characters. Hell, Connor Hawke was even Green Arrow instead of Ollie for like a decade, I think!

          • Yeah. But just like Barry is the Flash in the upcoming show and not Wally, and how Ollie is the Arrow in this show and not Connor, so will Laurel become Canary after she takes the mantle from her predecessor (her mother in the comics, her sister on the TV show).

          • The show is not the comic book. Felicity Smoak is not anything like what she is in the comic book, and has essentially become her own separate character; a lot of the characters aren’t much like their comic book counterparts, especially with powers outside of Mirakiru being taken out of the equation. There is no “undeniable fact” in adaptation. The rules are always in flux. There is no law that dictates Black Canary has to be Dinah Lance; how many superheroes have had multiple alter egos? Batgirl, for example, is a name taken up by a lot of different people; as I pointed out, Batman is also Terry McGinnis, something that is now comic book canon, or so says Wikipedia. So why can’t this be a version where the Black Canary is Sara Lance instead of Dinah? If Laurel hadn’t existed, and they had just introduced Sara Lance as Black Canary, wouldn’t people have accepted that as good enough, and probably not get super riled up about the first name being different? Is it a comic books versus TV show thing, because other characters, McGinnis and Chloe Sullivan of Smallville (a great example of breaking with Green Arrow mythos, even though their Dinah was actually pretty awesome) among them, that have originated in TV shows and then been brought into the comic books, which means that there isn’t any reason they can’t do something different here and it won’t get integrated into the “accepted canon medium” later on. It may seem like blasphemy to comic book fans, but there is really no reason Laurel has to be Black Canary. Because it’s an adaptation, of a medium that’s constantly re-writing it’s own canon anyway.

            Personally, if they can’t make Laurel work as the Canary, I hope that she dies doing something heroic, and Sara takes up her first name for her alter ego as a tribute or something. Problem solved. Cassidy goes and finds a role where she gets to be sassy because she works better as sassy, and the stupid “We have to make a character we’re not sure will work as Canary into the Canary because she’s got the stunning credentials of the right FIRST NAME” thing to bed. Yay.

            All that being said, I’m still mostly hoping that the Laurel thing works out, because I do like Cassidy. I’m just saying it isn’t some sort of gospel truth that the show has to follow no matter what.

            Also, there are four Flashes; Barry Allen is not a good example for your point, as he was actually a reboot of the series, and is more popular than his predecessor Jay Garrick, and not quite as popular as his replacement, Wally West. Maybe it’s time for Laurel to get a more popular replacement, too, even if it’s just for TV.

          • Thing is that they haven’t even tried to make Laurel work as Canary. Most people on this board just dismiss the idea based on how the character has been written to date and how well Sara was as canary by comparison.

            The lore on the show is not that different from the lore in the comics. The only change is that instead of the mantle passing from mother to daughter it’s from sister to sister.

            Laurel has always been the second canary. Her entire existence is a retcon as originally there was only one Canary until they split her in two separate characters.

          • Melissa says:

            So, if I name my kid ‘Bruce Wayne’ does that mean he’s Batman? Nothing about Laurel even remotely resembles Black Canary from the comics. They have given all of Black Canary’s significant attributes to Sara. As someone who loves Black Canary, and that character being the primary reason I even started watching Arrow, I think her story is far more important than her name.

          • In the comics, there was only one Canary, then at some point they split the character in two (a mother and a daughter), with similar and different attributes. On the show, they split them into two sisters with different attributes and characteristics. That doesn’t mean that Laurel isn’t Black Canary, anymore than because in Lois & Clark Clark didn’t fall on his ass and collided with people to hide his powers he wasn’t Superman.

          • This version of Laurel is just as valid as any other. The adaptations don’t have to be carbon copies.

      • Jesus, Michael, are you just everywhere I go?

    • wrstlgirl says:

      Sadly it’s gonna happen so it’s either accept it or move on. I’ve decided to stop obsessing over how much I hate this idea and just enjoy the show best I can. Who knows, maybe I’ll even grow to like her as BC because I sure can’t stand her now, lol.

      • blakely says:

        that’s good advice! i’ll get there eventually I guess. I just really don’t want her around so much.

      • Olivia says:

        I stopped obsessing about it after the finale, but my excitement for season 3 went with my resignation about the possibility of losing an excellent Canary in Sara to make way for *this* Laurel Lance. They should probably give her the fishnet costume, though, if they’re so hellbent on “following the comics.” Fits with the ridiculousness of this whole “hero journey” of hers.
        I still wish they’ll give her another character to embody though. That way I could let Laurel scenes pass without falling into a Sara/Canary-sized hole of resentment.

        • DoctorWhoFanatic says:

          She can wear all white, and be the White Canary, and fight side by side with Sara as the Black Canary!

    • Characters tend to get more interesting when they’re sucked into the secret world of Arrow and I’m hoping Laurel’s no exception. Uphill battle, yeah, but I do think a major problem with the character has been just the stories written for her, and with this new direction things might get better. Better or worse this is character for season 3… I just hope if even that fails they’ll realize it and address it.

    • Rachel says:

      I do in fact I can’t wait! Go Katie!

    • CBWBDK1 says:

      I agree. If she does become black canary this season, they should show her training and she should become bc at the end of the season. The worst thing the writers can do is magically make her a martial arts expert. She should train the whole season. Same with roy this season. For me that still was too quick. We only saw him training a couple of times and in the season finale he was a total bad-ass.

      • nate says:

        i mean we all know she can fight. but I want to see her fight like her sister

        • Dominator of destruction says:

          I don’t know she can fight nothing I’ve seen suggests that

          • Andie says:

            They’re been dropping hints that she can fight ever since season 1. In episode 3, she kicked Max’s ass in the back of the club when Tommy and Oliver were being beaten up by thugs. She’s taken self-defence classes, and no, she still isn’t trained to the level of Sara or Oliver but the basis is there and she WILL be a great fighter.

          • Melissa says:

            I’ve taken martial arts classes and I can throw a pretty good punch – Fairly certain that doesn’t qualify me (or Laurel) to become Black Canary.

          • nate says:

            then u clearly haven’t been watching since the first season

      • Rick Katze says:

        My thoughts also. As hard as it will be, the third season needs to move Laurel very slowly towards BC because she needs a whole lot of training. One thing they could do to speed up the process would be to start season three about a year in the future which will allow both Thea and Laurel to have developed some of the talents that they are clearly going to need.

        • Jon says:

          Thea had archery trophies in her room, I’d say she already got some talent.

        • Pam says:

          Well we do move 5 to 6 months ahead when we return so that’s at least half a year. lol Who knows maybe both girls won’t be complete badasses until sweeps which will be officially a year and 2 months later. Either way I’m really looking forward to Laurel and Thea’s stories I love how both of these women are so important to our hero and his story.

      • John NYC says:

        They more or less instantly showed Oliver as Arrow without
        Waiting until the last episode of the season. We haven’t seen HIS final honing yet.

        A simple time jump forward combined with flashbacks and she could be BC from episode two… Not necessarily what I would prefer but it’s there if the shoot it that way.

    • Drew says:

      And anyone watching Oliver six or seven years ago would have fought against him becoming the Arrow. I will see what the finishing point is for Laurel before I count her out entirely.
      Personally, I see problems with the character but they can be resolved. I see more longterm potential there than I do with an Oliver/Felicity romance.
      I really hope that Thea doesn’t become eeeevil. There is a difference between being pissed off at people and wanting to murder puppies. I don’t see her becoming a bad person.

    • M3rc Nate says:

      They need to find a way for Laurel to grow through her own crucible that isnt a few months long, but like Oliver/Sara is at least a year long…and it removes all the whinyness of her character and makes her into a trained badass like Sara is…where she is believable as the BC, not just Laurel as we know her and being trained by Oliver.

    • Ray says:

      I have really enjoyed this season of Arrow in large part because of Caity Lotz’s portrayal of Black Canary, a character I’ve loved for years. If they toss her aside to force Laurel into the Canary role I will be so bummed. Why would they spend an entire season giving us so much backstory on Sara, really fleshing out her character, just to toss her aside & replace her? Do they really think Katie Cassidy can portray a female superhero better than Caity Lotz who actually has a martial arts background? Lotz has done a phenomenal job in the role.
      I’m not a Laurel ‘hater’ and I’m not a shipper, but I do not want to see Laurel turned Black Canary. Personally, I think that would ruin the show for me.

      • Dominator of destruction says:

        Im with you Ray I’m only coming back to s3 of arrow if Sara returns and yes Caity has done an amazing job with the character she gave her so much strength and really exuded confidence as Starling Sara and best of all Sara was her own entity she wasn’t defined by anyone but herself exactly how Canary should be

        • lulu Lily says:

          They made sara character the female version of Oliver and which isn’t black canary and even the writers and Mr.amell and ms.Lotz said that sara is the female version of Oliver which Dinah laurel lance aka black canary never in life were a female version of Oliver queen.

      • Woww, you took the words of my mouth! Very well said! Caity is one of the main reasons that i think season 2 of Arrow was so amazing, and so great! Caity is the perfect Black Canary! She has the whole package, all the personality, all the phenomenal skills. So, Laurel has the name. So what? You don’t become a hero just because of your name! I hope the writers will do the right thing, and i will stay positive about this, because the show is really awesome, but i will be very disappointed if Sara don’t come back in season 3! She became a big part of the show!

    • Bender says:

      Yeah well you and every other hater needs to get over it, laurel lance is black canary

    • FanGA says:

      Lol Arrow fans are freaking unbelievable sometimes, this is a Superhero show, your telling me your willing to except a guy getting stranded on a Island meeting his arch enemy while there, falling for or at least sleeping with the same chick as him, his girlfriends sister who he also slept with ends up being on the Island with him after he thought her dead, ends up joining the league of assains which is lead by some kind of supernatural guy who has a pit that can bring people back to life.
      The guy surviving the Island, coming back to reality deciding to become some kind of hero with a bow and arrow which he learnt to shoot on the Island he just survived by slapping water which is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
      His arch enemy comes back from the Island, so does his ex girlfriends sister who is now a hardened assain in what five years?! His enemy is super powered by some kind of drug which makes him nearly invincible… OMG I’m going to stop now or I will be here all day but your telling me your willing to accept all of that but not Laurel as BC?! ….
      I’m sorry I just can’t believe you guys are willing to put aside all the this shows craziness but OMG if Laurel becomes BC!!

    • Jim says:

      Me neither! NO NO NO. I’m not an olicity shipper & I don’t care if Oliver dates Laurel, Felicity, or Diggle for that matter. But I do NOT want to see Laurel forced into the Black Canary role. Caity Lotz is and always will be Black Canary as far as I’m concerned. Laurel needs to move on to ‘General Hospital’ or some other soap opera.

    • Dj says:

      Sara was such a great Canary. I really don’t like Laurel so yeah I’m not happy about that.

    • G. says:

      Lol … It is not up to us. The producers have already decided.

      Our only choice is to watch and see how she does … and then stop watching, or keep watching.

    • Ram510 says:

      I don’t want Laurel as Black Canary either. I was hoping the writers would deviate a little from the comics and kill Laurel off and have Sara take over her identity in her honor or something.

    • Raksha says:

      Ugh. Me neither. She makes me yawn.

    • Alex says:

      Technically Laurel is supposed to be canary

    • Bobbee says:

      I really dislike the Laurel character, she is weak, and it is completely unbelievable for her to be Canary. It took Sara YEARS of torture to become what she was, so little miss manicure and priss is not going to be believable. She just does not have the horrific motivation that the others who don the superhero mask have. If they do try to shove her down our throats, it will be the single biggest error they make. The show otherwise is spot on.

    • Juan S. Garrido says:

      She might become White Canary and yes… There is such thing.

  2. tv2day says:

    This is how u do a comics TV show. Easily the best one on TV.

  3. abby says:

    I do wonder how Laurel becoming the Canary is going to work, Oliver and Sara had 5 years of training to become what they are today so is Laurel’s training going to go on for seasons before she’s ready to be the Canary or is she just going to miraculously become a skilled and trained fighter/weapons expert in the first 10 episodes in the next season (while holding down a full time lawyer job).

    • Same question would apply to Thea where she to return transformed into some sort of skilled fighter.

      • Rachel says:

        Yeah but again, they don’t have a problem with that. It’s all about trashing Laurel and the actress at every chance. Double standards.

        • abby says:

          I don’t expect either of you to believe me but I actually like Laurel (for me her being the Canary is a million times better option than Sara who was the character I personally had the problem with) the only reason I spoke about her over Thea is this article is talking about Laurel becoming a superhero and an actor speculating his character will train Thea to be a powerhouse. Not the same thing.

      • Kristina says:

        Not exactly–based on what we know of Malcolm she’ll most likely be going through an extremely vigorous training–probably similar to what Slade put Isabel through. And Thea won’t be holding down a very high-profile full-time job at the time ether, leaving her a lot more time to focus on her training (or whatever she’s going to be doing).

      • abby says:

        Yes it will but to me that quote seemed like JB speculating and not confirmation Thea is coming back as her own version of a superhero, I imagine he will train her but we don’t know yet if that means Thea is going to come back able to shoot an arrow more able to handle herself better or if she will be able to fight men twice her size and go out and stop crime all on her lonesome. I will be equally dumbfounded if Thea comes back this way however at least in her case we can assume that for however long the break is her life was devoted to training. Laurel (unless she leaves the DAs office which I personally don’t expect she will) will be training around a demanding full time job.

        • I have to catch up, because last I saw Laurel had been fired from the DA office. As for Thea, if Malcolm is training her, I doubt she’s coming back as a superhero. More like a supervillain.

        • Riana says:

          She’s at least a novice with an arrow because she has taken archery before. There were trophies in her room. Malcolm probably knows that and it’ll speed her training up. She’s probably better with a bow than Roy at this point.

      • Winter says:

        I think it is a fair question about both of them. I don’t ship so I don’t really care who ends up with who. I will say that with Thea she will be off all alone with her dad and nothing else to do but train so her training should come along quicker than that of a grown woman with a law career.

    • Boston2AZ says:

      Maybe she could be dropped off on the island and trained there. You know, in secret. And then she could come back in 5 years or so. That would be just perfect!

    • Ray says:

      I wonder too. I’m a huge Black Canary fan and she’s supposed to be a *world class* martial artist, one of the best fighters in the world. And Oliver didn’t train her, she earned the title long before she met him on the Justice League. The Black Canary from the comics loves and cares for ‘Sin’ – That’s Sara, not Laurel. Everything about BC from the comics fits Sara, not Laurel. People are so obsessed with the name, but every detail that really matters about Black Canary matches Sara, not Laurel.

  4. Katy says:

    Nooooo please no Laurel as BC or at the very least show us that she is training towards being BC I don’t thin anyone wants an insta Laurel Canary character. While we are at it can we see Nyssa and Sara with the LOS more? I find the League fascinating they are not like the characters in the Nolan/Batman verse and would like to see an updated version of them.

  5. So, Thea is the Mia Darden pastiche. Roy, they’ve said, will become Arsenal. That would mean that under Malcolm’s tutelage Thea will become Speedy (a nickname she always owns)? I’d much rather they called her something like The Red Hood, or The Crimson Hood, or the Scarlet Hood, something like that. Or maybe even Arrowette? lol.

  6. emma says:

    The thing is, Black Canary’s real name is Dinah Lance. Laurel goes by her middle name. Her first name is Dinah. So she essentially should be BC.

  7. K says:

    Oh calm down, Laurel becoming the Black Canary will be good development. It’ll stop her from being the annoying damsel in distress and mature her. I’m excited!

  8. Diz says:

    Sara is so good. I just can’t see Laurel in that position unless they do a major time jump to get her trained. Even then though I don’t see Laurel with the fight or heart required for the position.

  9. tara says:

    BC is Laurel’s destiny. Im happy she is FINALLY starting it. She’s risen from the ashes and is gonna become a stronger woman

  10. KevinM says:

    I have no interest in Laurel as Canary. I don’t care about comic canon, I like Sara in that role. Laurel is 29 on the show, 30 next season. At her age she’s gonna start training to be a vigilante? I don’t think so. At least Ollie and Sara began their training in their early twenties, and they’re already awesome fighters. By the time Laurel catches up she’ll be 36, she already looks 36. Geez, why did they hire such an old actress? And, she’s so freaking skinny, in what planet is she gonna fill out that costume? Nope. I’m hoping they kept Sara alive as a backup plan, that way when Laurel crashes and burns the show as BC, they can bring her back. Next season if she’s full BC, I will watch on DVR so I can fast forward. I’m hoping that jacket is just their way of teasing the fans. Considering Sara was on the season 3 press release, I feel good about her being back next season. It makes sense. Ra’s wants to kill Malcom, he’ll be around in S3, Nyssa/Sara need to come take him out. Somewhere in there lets keep Sara in Starling, get Laurel a man, let her be D.A, and a mom, and leave the show to the rest of the cast.

    • The comic book lore had Black Canary inheriting the mantle from her mother. For the show, they changed it to her sister. It’s the same basic formula. Laurel is still the second Black Canary.

    • Katy says:

      As much as I love Sara as the Black Canary, her giving Laurel the jacket meant she was moving on from the role and has accepted being part of the League again. I do think we will see her again but not as the Canary :(

    • wonderwall says:

      I’ve been seeing a lot of people having issues with KC being cast as Laurel… I’m not completely sure about this, but I heard Katie Cassidy was more of a network hire, not someone the casting person picked out of a group of women… Maybe that’s why people think she seems unfit to be BC?

      • Katy says:

        For me its more so the character of Laurel. I like Katie Cassidy she was one of the bright spots on Melrose Place 2.0. But as of right now I just don’t buy her character becoming BC hopefully that will change in season 3 and I do not think this season was Laurel’s “island” just like I don’t think it was Roys. IMO both Oliver and Sara wen through absolute hell on that island and nothing this season for either Laurel or Roy has compared.

      • She needs to be less Melrose Place and more Supernatural.

        • wonderwall says:

          B*tchy with no conscience? :p No but I really do feel like Katie Cassidy knows nothing about BC. She herself said she’s never read the comics nor has she done any in depth research about her character (a simple google search wouldn’t even suffice)… So maybe there’s a real disconnect between the actor and the character.

          • I’m thinking more in terms of the character she played in Supernatural.

          • wonderwall says:

            Wait… Was Ruby 1.0 the seemingly helpful one and Ruby 2.0 the one with no conscience? IDK I mix them up all the time because it’s been a while :p

      • Sparky says:

        I wonder is that the reason the writers didn’t kill off Sara’s character…..a back up plan in case Laurel doesn’t work in the role!!!! They have done a pretty decent although not perfect job with everyone else’s storyline except for Laurel. She is a pretty major character who is very polarizing and keeping Sara around they can move her into the BC role if Laurels development doesn’t work!!! Not the worst idea!!!!

    • chiba says:

      OOh bitter much?

  11. mary says:

    Well getting rid of Caity Lotz as Black Canary is most stupid decision I’ve ever heard. Good luck to all of you watching Cassidy’s stunt double play BC, I’m done with this show.

  12. Sarah T. says:

    Though I’m not crazy about Laurel as BC, let’s not forget the girl’s had some training. Back in S1, she kicked some major tail when cornered by some baddies. The character seems to have “forgotten” that since though and manages to wind up taken a lot (though I think that’s b/c she’s supposed to be Oliver’s lady love (we all know that’s really Felicity though). ;)

  13. ruby says:

    oh i don’t want Laurel to be the BC…blah blah! change your speech! you guys are turning to be the most annoying fandom! you will get worse than the TVD one for sure! get over it! you don’t write the show! I´m super excited to see who will be the new big bad and see Malcolm and Thea interactions! and yes i´m excited to see Laurel as BC!

    • Tandie says:

      YES.I’m just so tired of the same immature shippers trashing every thread that talks about Katie or Laurel. It’s so annoying. Not everyone watches this show for their precious ship. I did not mind Felicity or the ship before but now I’m beginning to dislike them.

      • Lena says:

        I am not an Olicity shipper, so I see your point. Although my reasons for not liking Laurel is because of the writing. Unfortunately, that doesn’t matter to some shippers. Already, Flash hasn’t started yet and we haven’t even seen the first episode, but some Olicity shippers are trying to make Caitlin and Barry the next Olicity 2.0. Who cares about “Killer Frost”? They completely skipped over Iris and went for the nearest white girl they could find to ship. So for some Olicity shippers, the writing is not important. It’s their need to ship anything that reminds them of Felicity. I don’t think it matters to some of them if the writing improves for Laurel or not, they will still hate her.

        • ruby says:

          even though i liked Laurel story this season i can understand why some didn’t liked it but agree they cant see anything positive and that is annoying!! i find ridiculous that about The Flash! i heard that too! its because they identify themselves with those type of characters for sure! i think Olicity shippers only see the show for their ship! not the whole thing….

          • Foshi says:

            I am a huge comic book fan and I started watching Arrow because I missed seeing Smallville on my tv screen. I thought the first few episodes were pretty good and the show continued to improve. It wasn’t until Felicity joined Oliver and Diggle that something clicked for me and I realized something had been missing from the show. I love Team Arrow and have grown to like the Oliver and Felicity pairing. That in no way means I automatically hate Laurel or that I’m a teenage girl who doesn’t watch the show for anything other than Olicity. I’m a thirty year old high school teacher who has read comics since I was 10. I think blatant generalizations of others is the exact thing people claim they hate about this fandom. Just because I want to see Black Canary from the comics on my tv screen and do not see Laurel Lance fit in that role doesn’t mean I don’t love Arrow.

        • wonderwall says:

          I am pretty much active in a lot of forums, AV Club, IGN, spoilerTV, twitter, etc. And I have not seen this. While I have seen some ‘shipping’ of Caitlin/Barry, I don’t see them all being Oliver/Felicity shippers. I also don’t see the need for you to bring race into the mix. Race is not an issue here. And you’re making it seem like it’s a bigger problem than it clearly is.
          And to be fair, every character gets hated on for no reason,, even Felicity.

          • ruby says:

            there is no Felicity hate or at least its not a big thing or much talked about! i am active too, mostly on twitter and tumblr! did you check tumblr? because its all there!

          • Lena says:

            @Wonderwall, it doesn’t concern me if you are offended because I brought race into the equation. It is clearly an issue since I have seen some horrible racist responses on various sites. Also, I have seen tons of Olicity shippers ready to hate on the character Iris on tumblr and another site I visit. I will not even bother to get into the anger and comments made against Candice Patton because she is playing Iris. I stand by my original statement….

        • Mary says:

          This is very true! I have seen Olicity fans on tumblr who confess that they haven’t even watched the show (or only watched a few eps), but who are hardcore Olicity shippers because of the gif-sets they’ve seen online! And now there is a whole army of twitter/tumblr fangirls who are shipping Barry/Caitlin solely on the basis of what they’ve seen in the promo….

      • ruby says:

        i´m a fan of Oliver and Laurel but i really dont watch this show for ships! this show is beyond that! TVD is for ships not Arrow and people nowadays don´t care about that! so annoying! I like Felicity but the fans can make us dislike her! sad! they cant see anything positive about Laurel and the majority are Olicity shippers! that says a lot!

      • Ben says:

        Why would anyone dislike something about a TV show simply because someone else who is annoying likes it? Why let others get in your head so much? Strange attitude.

        • ruby says:

          because they make the character like a perfection and stuff like that! i saw people saying that, although that does not happen much with me! i like Felicity! there are aspects on her character that i don’t like much but not because of the olicity fandom!

          • wonderwall says:

            People obviously would say their favorite characters/ships are perfect because that’s how they see them. Perfect in their imperfections. Just because I say this season of Arrow was perfect doesn’t mean that it actually is, I’m not deluded. I know every episode wasn’t perfect. Shippers don’t glorify Oliver/Felicity. If you actually pay attention, a lot of them think that Oliver doesn’t deserve to be with Felicity right now. You’re looking at the entire fandom with hate filled glasses that it’s skewing your view about the fandom. Quite a shame indeed.

      • Mary says:

        This is a very disturbing trend that is making more general, non-partisan viewers dislike both Felicity and the Olicity ship. It is a pity really, because it’s the online fans who are annoying, and not the character or the ship in themselves. I like all the “Arrow” characters, and I find reading comment sections like these to be a very weird experience, because many posters seem so full of hate and malice towards some characters, while raising other characters to the skies. It seems like such an odd behavior when it comes to fictional characters in TV show.

        • Lena says:

          I agree. Unfortunately, this is probably the reason some Arrow/Flash/Comic book fans are fighting with Olicity fans on tumblr. Flash fans don’t want the Olicity fan base to start bringing their hatred and bash 101 methods to a new show. Some fans are just tired of it. The fact that they are already starting on a character they haven’t even seen in action yet is just pathetic.

      • Anna says:

        I thought this same thing…but I’ve been on several boards and after the finale, it’s the Laurel/Lauriver fans who are turning me off from the Arrow fandom. I try not to generalize though–but personally, I was shocked. I think a select group of Olicity shippers tend to give that fandom a bad rep because their hate is directed to KC, while Laurel/Lauriver fans direct their hate to Marc Guggenheim. It doesn’t matter–both fandoms have crazy people in them, and while it is hard (even for me) not to generalize, I try to remind myself there’s got to more sane fans than insane ones. The insane ones just tend to be louder and more obnoxious.

    • Beatriz Lins says:

      You know, people hate Laurel because she’s the worst character in the show, and KC doesn’t help matters at all. It has nothing to do with the shipping. She doesn’t even have the strenght to face her problems without alcohol. It’s going to take 40 seasons for her to become something worthy of a hero.

      • Paula M. says:

        Yeah that’s just your opinion. I think the worst actress is Emily Bett, can’t deliver her lines, mumbles all the time. Yet I do not feel the urge to go into every thread that talks about the actress or the character to bash her which is what her fans do whenever they post something about Laurel or Katie Cassidy. So annoying.

        • ruby says:

          i this Emily is a good actress but i agree at some point with you but when Felicity cries! On Moira´s funeral her acting was no good…but she is younger and she is learning! she is better than in season 1! :)

        • Mary says:

          I definitely agree that Emily Bett-Rickards is an inexperienced actress and I also have problems with the way she delivers her lines. She has a lot of charm and charisma, but when she is asked to do a more emotional scene, like the one at Moira’s funeral, she just doesn’t convince me. Maybe that’s why she gets mostly lighthearted and ‘cutesy’ scenes and dialogues.

        • Lea says:

          Yeah, I like Emily a lot but I see your point. She’s good at quirky, funny scenes but anything other than that is a little uncomfortable to watch.

      • ruby says:

        and how much time Oliver had to become a hero? 2 weeks? lol oh just because of the alcohol? she is human with flaws! get over! you guys have 0 valid arguments!

        • Katy says:

          Oliver had 5 years on an island to train his body SMDH.

          • ruby says:

            you sure? because since i saw the season finale i pretty much know that Oliver was in Hong Kong too. and who says Laurel will be BC in the season 3 premiere? lol you know how much time will pass? so yeah SMDH

          • ruby says:

            and i was being ironic in that comment! i know that Oliver had much time to train!

          • Katy says:

            You seem a bit “attacky”

        • Beatriz Lins says:

          Yes, she is a person who didn’t go through 5% of Oliver and Sara did to become a hero. So pushing her down our throats as the Canary is just not gonna work.

          • ruby says:

            Actually she went through a lot too! Her knowing that her sister and Oliver cheated on her, their “deaths”, Tommy´s death, Sara showing up again, losing her job, getting an addiction and dealing first with her dad addiction too.

      • Briggs says:

        You guys do realize that the way she delivers her lines is actually in character, right? The char has had a confidence problem from day one (which, if you watch any interview with Emily, you’ll see it’s a problem she doesn’t share with Felicity). Being abandoned by a parent *is* going to give you problems with self-esteem and such. Well, possibly both parents, since she appears to not get along with her mother, who is still around (there are all kinds of abandonment). So, actually, she’s doing exactly what she’s supposed to be doing. It’s posts like this that make me wonder what show everyone else is watching…

        • Briggs says:

          This was supposed to be further up after the Emily bashing. Which is worse than Felicity bashing, since it’s so personal. It’s rude, and it doesn’t matter which actor/actress it is, rude is rude. Complain about the character if you must, but don’t bash the actress. They’re real people, and have real friends and family who can be hurt by it. So stop it, all of you.

          • Lea says:

            Ah but when people bash Katie Cassidy, I’m sure you stay quiet. I’m not bashing Emily either way, I like her, but she certainly has room for improvement.

          • Briggs says:

            Confronting Katie bashers is a great way to get into a fight, and since nothing anyone else said was getting through, I didn’t see how anything I said would make a difference. Now, when comments got thrown at yet *another* actor (they’ve been awful to Stephan, as well), it was time to say something. The chars people like seem to dictate who they hate, and while not always the case, it’s an alarming trend. Let’s leave that attitude for politics. It doesn’t belong there, either, but I can’t do much about that, and heaven knows I’ve tried…

            (FYI, the condescending tone? I don’t know if you intended to have one, but I appreciate it less here than in RL. It can feel like a personal attack, even when it’s not.)

          • Gi Gi says:

            People giving constructive criticism is bashing now? I’m not on any side in the Laurel vs Felicity argument but I agree with what was being said about Emily’s acting.She’s cute but her emotional scenes are embarrassing to watch.She can improve of course but as of right now it’s just uncomfortable.

  14. GildedRose says:

    I have so many burning questions about Arrow S3 that weren’t touched on in the teases yet. I do love that John Barrowman is coming on for the new season and I’m curious to see how Thea returns and how that impacts Oliver, but I really want to know if Felicity’s dad is going to enter the picture. I’d love for him to be a villain. I also want to know how they’re going to address that whole Oliver/Felicity I Love You thing (lots of people still have questions so that definitely needs clarification & some confirmation of mutual feelings for viewers even if Oliver and Felicity aren’t privy to that confirmation). What’s Oliver going to do now that he has no money? What’s up with the new direction of his flashbacks? Are we going to see how he joins up with the Bratva finally? What happened to Quentin!? So many questions.

    • Matt Webb Mitovich says:

      And I got answers to most of those. We have a lonnnng summer ahead of us, folks. Scooping is a marathon not a sprint!

      • JJ says:

        Matt, teasing us like that is just plain mean.

      • Claire says:

        I agree with @Gilded Matt! and am glad you have more to give us. I want to hear more about Emily Bett and whether her character will receive more training. She’s been in the hub of the action and, was even THE HERO with this finale. Her training has been hinted at but it would be nice to see it happen and see improvement as her involvement with Team Arrow continues to evolve.
        .
        The Lance I’m interested in is Quentin — where will he be when the show begins? And Oliver and Felicity will they continue that exploration now that they opened the door? Hopefully your saving the best for last Matt (Felicity, Team Arrow[core 3] and F/O) ;)

      • GildedRose says:

        Love that, Matt, thanks! I have a ton more questions but I’ll pace myself. ;)

      • Dominator of destruction says:

        Matt do you have any news on whether Caity Lotz will be back for s3 pretty please?

    • Heidi says:

      All these non-productive convos about “ships” aside, I was so excited, too, to see John Barrowman being promoted to a series regular for Season 3. And I love that he still gets to interject a lot of quips into the part. He’s wonderful.

  15. I remember when Lana in Smallville trained for like two or three episodes and by the fourth she was all power ranger-y.

  16. Mehvash says:

    perhaps evolving into the black canary will make her a)more interesting and b)less annoying? thus far i’m not the biggest fan of laurel so any change at this point has to be better i have to hope. i literally want to fast forward through her stuff. i agree that her evolution can’t just be 1 episode or even 10. she can’t just put on a jacket and oh look i’m the black canary. i guess i’ll have to wait and trust that the writers know what they are doing and where they are going.

  17. hello says:

    Either Laurel has to get a altered Mirakuru-dose(that would also give her the scream) or she needs to train for a really long time. She can’t just put on a mask and start kicking ass

    • Jon says:

      Well, there’s Central City that’s just swimming with funky metahuman particles and elements and whatnot. If Barry can get abs while being comatose they could easily have Laurel visit Central City to get a ‘boost’.

  18. Sam Kistter says:

    Que bosta é essa? Essa bosta vai estragar o show! Laurel era ruim sendo Laure, imaginem como BC!

  19. AB says:

    Most people that I’ve interacted with don’t ship anything and they still do not like KC in the role. So no I do not think it is fair to use shipping as a point of argument. Every fandom has groups that can go too far, but I think it just boils down to Laurel being a horribly written character thus far.

    • wrstlgirl says:

      That’s true in my case. I don’t really care who Oliver sleeps with except that I do have to say that the back n forth between the two sisters is ewwwwwww. I mean really dude, lol.

      • AB says:

        Yeah I agree with that as well. I would rather Laurel and Oliver be great friends, and have Oliver be a mentor to her.

    • Beatriz Lins says:

      Yes, exactly. I don’t like KC as Laurel, and I’m pretty sure I’ll hate her as BC.

      • AB says:

        I just find the shipper aspect without validation at ‘times. I know character development is a process but, so far we haven’t seen anything that would make Laurel’s transformation into Black Canary make any sense. Sometimes I really wonder if Laurel wasn’t Black Canary in the comics, would people still want her to be Black Canary on the show.

    • THIS, totally! Laurel is a horribly written character, so far. And i just can’t see how Katie C will top the amazing work that Caity did on the show! I just don’t see how. Sara is the perfect Black Canary, and she is very popular with the Arrow fanbase. Laurel is there since the beggining and pretty much everyone still doesn’t like her.

    • susan says:

      I agree. I have nothing against the actress. The part has been so badly and inconsistently written that no one could play it.

  20. Jenni says:

    I personally don’t care much for Laurel as a character. But if the show really wants to turn her into a badass heroine then I hope it takes her a while to get there. I know the show does not move at a realistic pace but it would really put me off if she were able to do the fighting after a few episodes. Oliver and Sara had 5 years to get to the level they are at right now. Obviously Laurel will not need 5 years because it is a tv show but a semi-realistic development would be appreciated. The “jacket passing” scene also made me shake my head. Laurel was just kidnapped and had to be rescued again but her sister gives her the jacket and now she considers doing what Sara does? How does that make sense? If Sara had died and Laurel would have decided to honor her memory, fine. This solution was just a little lame to me. (or maybe I was just annoyed that along with the jacket came the rights to Oliver…these sisters really do like to keep it in the family.)

    • Sara Trindade says:

      (or maybe I was just annoyed that along with the jacket came the rights to Oliver…these sisters really do like to keep it in the family.)

      And this part is the MAJOR turn off of Laurel as a badass self respected woman! Also the rest of the post is pretty spot on!

      Probably the writers didn’t see how gross would be to have Oliver fooling arround with the sisters.
      And to the HQ lovers, this back and forth was not a part of the canon.. If you do not see how unrealistic, weak and ridiculous that Laurel becomes BC and reunites with Laurel and just do not have words for you.
      In THIS universe of Arrow there is no room for pairing Arrow and BC (Laurel, and making BC be a representation of badass women!

    • Amy says:

      LOL. Nicely put.

    • Lucy says:

      The jacket passing was silly, but the “Oliver needs you” made me want to vomit. Passing him back and forth between sisters is just gross.

      • Sparky says:

        And what does he need her for??? He has Diggle and Felicity. They know the struggles that he has gone through better than anyone. Her storyline just does not fit with everyone else’s. Keep her in the DAs office if she is a studio contracted actor that the show runners have to have in the show. Just keep Caity Lotz as BC. It’s still a member of the Lance family that is BC.

  21. Kristina says:

    I like Katie Cassidy (and have in everything she’s done) and after the last several episodes I like Laurel a lot more. Still really have no interest in seeing her as Black Canary. Nothing to do with “shipping”, just hate the idea of her in the role. It doesn’t seem like a good fit for her at all.

  22. Beatriz Lins says:

    Just don’t. Laurel is already terrible as Laurel, she doesn’t have the personality, the looks, OR the strenght to be the BC.

  23. nicky says:

    is she on drugs ?

  24. Maryann says:

    My concern in terms of Laurel as Black Canary is simply that she is basically an ordinary youngish woman at this point with inadequate background or training to be the Canary. If she is to take on this role, next season needs to show her training and learning. Oliver and Sara had FIVE YEARS of basically 24/7 training to make them who they are. How on earth is Laurel going to compete with this in the short term?

    • John NYC says:

      Actually some time during that intervening five (four now?) years they were ready: we’ve yet to see that progression, just that Oliver isn’t very far along when he’s grabbed by Amanda.

  25. Paula M. says:

    It never fails. Post something positive about Laurel Lance and the group of shipper crazy toddlers shows up to spew hate. This fandom now rivals TVD fandom in terms of grossness. I’m personally happy about what’s to come, I’m sure KC will sell it she is the best actress they have on the show.

    • KevinM says:

      I like how Laurel fans, instead of arguing why she’d make a good BC, harp on shipping. I don’t care who Oliver sleeps with or loves, this show is not about romance, and the little time they do the whole love thing doesn’t really annoy me. Laurel, though, annoys me to death. The show is always better when there is less of her. To think that she’ll be replacing Sara as BC, is simply laughable. I’ve never seen KC is anything else, but she does not impress me with her acting. Lets face it, no one on this show is emmy worthy, but at least the stunts and most of the writing makes up for it. Sara was a great Canary, and I will never get behind Laurel taking her place. This feeling is common with the people I know who watch the show. I’m not saying it’s universal or everyone feels that way, but lets not deny she’s a divisive character.
      So what’s your reasoning for the people like me, who don’t ship anything, but still hate Laurel? I’m guessing I’m secretly a delusional shipper right? Can your argument can anymore generic?

      • This. I don’t hate Laurel, but I find her weak, both physically and mentally, and I’m not a Green Arrow reader, so I don’t know why I’d have to be thrilled for her to fill her sister’s shoes.

        On the other hand, about the damn Olicity vs. Lauriver, I find it ridiculous. No woman with the slightest dignity would take back a man who cheated on her with every woman he could, including her sister, and even managed to father a child during their relationship. Oliver has changed, that’s a fact, but there’s too much baggage to carry around. Including the shame and guilt they both share about Tommy.

        And YES, I like Felicity and the Oliver/Felicity pairing. Now I guess my arguments will get thrown out, right? Now, that would be objetivity…

      • Christina says:

        I’m in the same boat as you Kevin. I do enjoy the romance side, but my dislike of Laurel stems from how she’s written and played. If her scenes aren’t critical to plot, I find myself wanting to fast forward. It’s just distracting.

      • Anna says:

        Hahahahaha. Kevin, people are actually having to say “I’m not a shipper but I don’t like Laurel.” Because SERIOUSLY, they assume everyone who dislikes the characters hates KC and loves Olicity. It’s ridiculous. How about those of us who have read the comics and love BC? Those of us who don’t think Laurel fits the role at all?! Those of us who saw Caity Lotz enter the picture, pull off convincing action/fight scenes, and went, “THAT is BC!” But, nope, it MUST be because we ship Olicity. Please.

        • KevinM says:

          These Katie fans are pressed. Most of the time I think they’re KC fangirls/guys, more than actual Arrow fans. God knows they can’t find a decent argument that isn’t tied to comic canon. lol They care more about harping on the shippers, and whining about how Olicity fans are haters, they totally forget there is a large group of us who don’t care and still hate Laurel. Eh, most of the Laurel fans here, (except Micheal, because you can tell he’s read the comics), site the comics but probably never picked picked up.

          I will simply FF anything that has to do with Laurel if they make her BC. The beauty of DVR, once she fails and Sara is back, I’ll watch live again.

      • Ella says:

        You want reasons? Okay. Here are mine as to why Katie Cassidy/Laurel will be an AWESOME Black Canary:

        1. Though it hasn’t been as apparent this season, the writers have been dropping hints that Laurel CAN kick ass. As early as episode 3 of season 1, she beat up Max, the club owner, when Ollie and Tommy were being held in the back room.
        2. She has martial arts and self defence training. This is not 5 years on a deserted island, but it is an excellent foundation for building her skills as the Black Canary.
        3. She looks spectacular in a leather jacket.
        4. Cassidy has played badass roles before – the majority of Supernatural fans thoroughly enjoyed her run as Ruby and were disappointed when she was replaced by Ruby v.2. She killed it with the right amount of snark, wit and butt kicking. It’s hardly Katie’s fault that she’s been written as a damsel in distress on Arrow (though she still does not get herself into stupid situations the way Felicity and Thea do, heaven forbid we criticize them) but given the right material, she will totally carry it.
        5. In the comics, it is a mantle that was passed from mother to daughter. Here, there is a minor variation but it makes sense that it would be passed from sister to sister, and I like the relationship between Sara and Laurel so I am happy they didn’t kill off the former to achieve this.
        6. Let’s trust the writers. They are not going to have her instantly transform into the Black Canary – there will be some build up and training.
        7. Chemistry is in the eye of the beholder. To me, Oliver and Felicity have none that is romantic (though Barry and Felicity on the other hand had OUTSTANDING chemistry), while Oliver and Laurel have the kind of chemistry that works on many, many levels – it’s evident when they kiss, when they console, when they fight, hell, when they’re in the same room together. She is the perfect Black Canary to his Green Arrow.
        8. It’s going to happen, deal with it. Or don’t, whatever but take your bashing and your hatred and shove it where the sun don’t shine. I’m so sick of this fandom and its nasty fans who sit behind their computers and spew hate. Get over yourselves and grow up.

        • wonderwall says:

          #3 and 8 aren’t really reasons…

          • wonderwall says:

            Also number 7 isn’t a reason why Laurel should become BC, it’s a reason why you think Laurel/Oliver should become a couple. Laurel’s relationship with Oliver has nothing to do with her becoming BC. Sorry, you don’t just get to reduce BC into GA’s lover. She’s far more than that. In fact, her relationship with Oliver has little to do with her legacy.

          • Pam says:

            maybe not but what you said about BC equals GA’s lover is wrong especially when it comes to this show. lol Seriously if they didn’t want us to put the two together they should have never had Sara screwing him while being the Canary to his Arrow, that ship has passed. Laurel being BC on this SHOW has a lot to do with Oliver Queen’s bed, it’s just how it is. BC and GA are going to do the whole romantic relationship thing actually they told us this from day one but even more so recently. They did say they (Ollie and Laurel) are the Lois and Clark of Arrow. Personally I’m hoping that they don’t reunite them in S3 I need more bonding/friendship scenes especially since she’s in the know now but yeah I can see them hooking up before the end of s3. Afterall they already made her start crushing on him and that took all of 3 episodes once she knew the SECRET that was it!

          • wonderwall says:

            And this is one of the reasons why people can’t believe why Laurel’s destiny (in the show) is to become BC. I don’t ship Sara/Oliver, the reason why was because I will never be a fan of sister swapping. Oliver/Laurel have such a messed up history that I don’t understand why ANY self-respecting woman (especially Dinah) would start dating the guy who cheated on them with their sister. So the second Laurel ends up in Oliver’s bed, the second she loses all the self-respect she tries to retain (at least in my eyes). Tying Laurel to Oliver only makes her look weak.
            Andrew Kreisberg made the connection between them and Clark/Lois, but people are putting a lot of weight in what was supposed to be an ‘innocuous comment’, even Stephen Amell doesn’t really see anything more than a friendship between Oliver and Laurel (it was in one of the interviews after the finale, I forget which one). I can’t seem to understand why any person who truly loves Laurel would want her to be with someone who was instrumental in tearing her family apart. It just baffles me.

        • Mary says:

          Preach!

          • Pam says:

            lol..seriously the fact that this is tv the rules do not apply. so what if he did her sister she did his brother (tommy) the fact that this soapy dramatic stuff is a big part of Ollie and Laurel story is one of the main reason they are THAT couple. I mean, just look at any couple on a primetime or daytime drama and tell me that everyone is all loyal and sweet, it doesn’t work that way in fiction. Now real life I would be kick him to the curb but in fiction it’s like just an added bonus to the story that is Oliver/Laurel saga.Everyone should have seen it coming the second they had her be all okay with the Sara/Ollie sitch, the minute she forgave that/them you knew that Oliver would only have to wait a little while longer before he got that girl back. but they fast-tracked even that by just having her find out that Ollie is Arrow the rest will just take care of itself.

    • marie says:

      This shipping argument is getting real old. There are many of us who had problems with the character of Laurel before Felicity, Sara, or anyone else came on the scene. Whether she becomes BC, I don’t really care. I don’t connect with the character, so I remain indifferent. I have tried for two years.

    • This show is not about romance, and shipping drama like TVD. I know a lot of people that don’t ship anyone on this show, and still don’t like Laurel. The problem is the character!!!

  26. Hamza says:

    Would we get to know more about the League of Assassins? With Sara leaving, it seems difficult to find out more, but I think the Ra’s al Ghul storyline could be so interesting!

  27. Katy says:

    The Sara passing her jacket over to Laurel scene was done way to happy imo like here is Sara fixing to leave off with the LOS to go back to being a murdering assassin and the scenes with her father/sister are lighthearted? Like what the heck?

    • Ray says:

      I totally agree. That scene made no sense. In ‘Heir To The Demon’ she tried to commit SUICIDE rather than return with Nyssa to the League. She refused to continue life as an assassin. Now she’s skipping off with them cheerfully? Wtf? And Laurel and Quentin said good-bye like Sara was leaving on a 2-week Caribbean cruise! That was the only part I really didn’t like in the finale. Weird. Weird. Weird.

  28. Mike R. says:

    Well, I may be the minority but I’m excited about Laurel as BC, clearly she’ll need training, but so will Thea, but we just are not aware of who Laurel’s teacher will be. It is likely that Ollie will train her, similar to how he trained Roy, and to an extent Diggle. We’ve seen Laurel have some fight experience in season 1, so seeing how fast Roy improved in the finale, it will not be that much of a stretch for Laurel to train, but for the love of god give us the Canary Cry. I’m getting sick of the intense hate on Laurel, KC is not the best actor in the world, but I find it hard to believe that this intense of hate is not majorly due to her interference with people’s favorite ship.

    Happy Barrowman has joined the cast, looking forward to his relationship with Thea. Though I think her eventual path is as speedy, maybe she could become an anti-hero or villainous, perhaps callin herself Artemis( villain from the 80’s comics, hero in Young Justice) for awhile before reuniting with Ollie.

  29. Drew says:

    It must be annoying to be a TV writer these days. People keep talking about how they just fast forward through certain characters’ scenes. So no matter what happens, or how the writers map out the evolution of a character, people will keep complaining even though they’re not even watching the story unfold. Then they will undoubtedly complain when they reach the end point because it doesn’t seem natural or whatever, mostly because they haven’t been watching.
    DVRs are great tools when used properly, but when put in hands with itchy trigger fingers, they are just a menace.
    I absolutely hate the idea of Oliver and Felicity in a relationship and think that it could ruin the dynamic of the series. But I am not preemptively criticizing storylines that haven’t even been written yet and I fully accept that I could wind up being wrong. The same goes with Laurel as Black Canary. Oliver from seven years ago doesn’t resemble a hero at all. How he ended up here is all about character development and so far, that story has worked. Why not see what they do with Laurel before we start passing out the torches and pitchforks?

  30. Trenton says:

    Oliver and Amanda Waller totally hooked up…b/c he hooks up with pretty much every girl save Felicity…and so has a thing for semi damaged morally grey women. If she is the focal point of the flashbacks, her world will be the big bad as parallels. Someone from the government. With the Flash being a show as well…that is a lot of super power peeps milling about. Someone is gonna try and kill them or recruit them and then kill them.

    • A says:

      I really hope Oliver and Waller didn’t/don’t hook up. Can the writers just write one female character (besides Felicity) who hasn’t slept with him?

      • John NYC says:

        Odds are Nyssa is more likely to hit on Felicity than Oliver. So there’s two…..

      • Trenton says:

        You can kind of tell by how she refers to him. There is a level of familiarity tinged with acidity that only former lovers have…remember the comment about using that “hotel” before like Digs and Layla did. They totally hooked up. And she probably returned him to the island as like a punishment or something.

  31. Brita says:

    I only ship interesting Arrow television but there’s been some stinky scenes this season. A crying shame considering how amazing season 2 was in other areas. Never fear people, the writers will continue to write as they want to because that’s their job. Ours is as viewers, who luckily can continue to fast forward scenes with people who suck up time that could be spent on more interesting storylines. Some characters will never be redeemable but luckily we don’t have to watch. You don’t like something on tv don’t watch it and certainly don’t talk about it. Too much time spent in this thread talking about the most boring part of this awesome show. Ignore “it” long enough and it’ll go away. Let’s move on and hope the writers continue with the aspects of the show that actually work.

  32. TFD says:

    Lordy, when did Arrow fans turn into Doctor Who fans?!

    Seems to be no middle ground for some folks.

    I personally LOVED Katie back in Supernatural, but in this something is really off with her performance I feel.

    I really hope she pulls it off & gets a great season 3 arc. Season 2 was pretty poor for her.

    Is all this “shipping” talk part & parcel of genre shows now?
    It pretty much wierds me out!

  33. Nick_clark says:

    Look at those haters who know nothing about the comics… LOL. About time Dinah LAUREL Lance is starting her training, bring on Wildcat to train her NOW

    • Katy says:

      She may have the name Dinah Laurel Lance but her character is WAY different on Arrow than in the comics.

    • Mary says:

      I would also love to see Wildcat turn up to train Laurel! She is one of the most interesting and evolving characters on the show.

  34. Amy47 says:

    Everybody who keeps connecting Laurel/KC with Olicity just needs to shut up. Don’t you see you’re fueling a pointless discussion that no one wants to have? Everybody keeps complaining about the connection being made between hating KC/Laurel and loving Olicity vs loving KC/Laurel and hating Olicity, while multiple times people have said that is not the case. Than lets just shut up about it please, there’s no connection between the two.
    As for the show I’m curious to see KC/Laurel becoming BC, I do hope they show her progress and it takes at least a full season to become BC, preferably even more time. It’s not something you become in a short amount of time, but we’ll see how the writers will let that play out. Maybe they haven’t written the best storyline for Laurel in the past, they have for their superheroes so I trust tbey’ll do a good job with Laurel as BC.
    Also exited about Thea. For her I would actually prefer NOT to see her transition into the badass she’s probably going to become. In my opinion it would suit her character to just come back and be badass. With Merlin by her side of course, we will need our dose of John Barrowman.
    And so curious about the new big bad, will it be ARGUS? Just a guess. And hopefully this time not the entire city will get torn apart. Ah well at least there will be much less people to save then, since every person with common sense will have left Starling by now.
    Let the waiting begin.

  35. AW says:

    I’m okay with Katie Cassidy with becoming the Black Canary, as long as the writers continue to improve on the writing for this character and for this wonderful actress!

  36. Alicia says:

    So, I’m still catching up on season 2 and just started watching the show last week. I’m interested to see Laurel do more than season 2. I actually really liked her in the ADA role and being on the side of the law. I am an Olicity fan, but I’m also not diluted into thinking that they are going to be endgame! I know Oliver ends up with Dinah in the comics, but I’m also not sure if that is the direction they are going with because Smallville completely changed that even if it was the story of Superman and not Green Arrow.

    Katie Cassidy is one of the main reasons I started watching the show. I liked her character more in season 1, but I liked the exploration of a darker aspect of her personality.

    As for her being BC, I’m with people on slow progression! Though I’m interested in when the sonic sound comes in because as much as Sara was awesome as BC in season 2. Dinah having powers is one of the main things I always think of when I think of that character. I’m interested to see how the work in her becoming a metahuman.

    I would like to see Laurel become part of team Arrow and be mentored by Oliver the same way that Roy was. As a shipper the one thing I don’t want is for Laurel and Felicity to become like best friends. Oliver has already been screwing around with two sisters and that was gross. When they had Lana and Chloe on Smallville become best friends and basically sisters that whole love triangle got just a tad grosser.

  37. John NYC says:

    Never read the comics, could not care less how well any character fits that world: just give me solid characterizations and solid performances in The Show I do watch.

  38. sophia7470 says:

    I’m so excited for season 3, I think the season arc might be around trying to save Thea’s soul…I can’t see her turning irreversibly dark and it would be a good continuation of Oliver’s ‘hero’ arc.

    I don’t really care one way or another re Katie Cassidy being BC, willing to see how they approach that. I just hope they keep her away from Oliver romantically, I’d like to see her in the Cam~Saroyan~to~Booth role, an ex who is a really good friend to Oliver. I could never ship them romantically ever since he had a relationship with Sara in the present day…the interchangable lance sisters act will never be anything other than gross and extremely distasteful. The writers torpedoed that ship as effectively as Anatoly torpedoed the Amazo :)

    I don’t know how I’m going to last five months without Arrow :(

  39. James D says:

    I think Thea will turn into some form of Cupid. i sort of got that crazy obsessive stalkery vibe from her in the finale. Can’t wait to see what happens and I’m super stoked to have Barrowman back in the fold. I’m also looking forward to seeing the true Black Canary emerge.

  40. Sparky says:

    Had they killed Sara in the finale that would have been the motivation that would have fueled Laurels transition to BC and with some better writing I think current haters (including myself) could have gotten in board with this progression. Caity Lotz is a tough cookie, not always the best actress but she does manage to convey that broken or beat up character that went through her own crucible on the island. Her and Ollie have that connection that nobody else will ever understand. When her and Ollie are on screen together they fit and I believe their journey and aim to save the city and the ones they love. It’s such a shame to take what works and throw it away to team him up with a character that doesn’t understand any of that. With regard to Thea, she has lost everyone and doesn’t trust anyone. She is an impressionable kid in a lot of ways and it is easy to understand how someone like Malcolm can take complete advantage of that and mold her into someone that can take control of her life and not let anyone else in that can hurt her. Plus she doesn’t have a full time job and he can train the heck out of her over the next few months. We can debate the pros and cons of Laurel as BC until we are blue in the face the writers are in the driving seat. Let’s hope they don’t screw it up…no pressure. As long as they don’t screw with the core of the show IMO Oliver, Diggle and Felicity!!!! Oh it’s going to be a long 5 months…

  41. Joey Padron says:

    Good scoop about season 3. Can’t wait for it to start this fall.

  42. LSJ says:

    I have no problem with Laurel as the BC since that who is destined to become. I will admit to having had enough of Laurel and Kate halfway through season 1, but I haven’t given up on her yet. I love Kate as an actress and agree that I don’t know if she was built for the role of Laurel. My issue with Laurel and Oliver is that Oliver is a jerk. Yes he’s changed, but he still treated Laurel like crap. He cheated on her with at least two women we know of (her sister of all people and his Baby Mama). The latter of which I think will be another hurdle for Laurel and Oliver to overcome.

    I love Oliver and Felicity’s slow burn and chemistry. However, as an Olicity shipper I will say that the writer’s need to tone it down, just a smidge.

    I have no problem with Oliver ending up with Laurel or Felicity, as long as it is done right. Everyone screaming comic cannon needs to remember that Oliver and Laurel got DIVORCED. So it doesn’t mean that Oliver ends up with Laurel in the long run. The writer’s can draw upon whatever source material they want and/or create their own.

    To that end, I say we let the writer’s do their thing, whatever it may be, and have faith in them to do it right. Once it’s all said and done, then we can scream, kick, be mad, and disagree. So far, yes, they haven’t done the best with some aspects of the show, but I’m not going to pass any judgement on “what might happen” or “what is going to happen” until it actually happens.

  43. Gordon Rick says:

    Laurel as the Canary? No thanks! IMO Katie does not have the chops for that kind of role.

    • LSJ says:

      Have you seen Katie in Supernatural? She kicked some serious behind as Ruby.

    • Thomas (Taurus) says:

      Two years we have had to put up this stuff, it is the lowest part of the show. I mean I hate to be harsh (someone has to) but this is just seriously insane. She drags the show down, character and actress. Period. You had a great Black Canary in CL, but sorry we’re tied to KC so we’re downgrading from a Porche to give you a Ford Edsel. Congratulations! viewers! Aren’t you excited?

      She’s so propped that it isn’t funny any more. She was on-screen for like 5 minutes in the finale and the best part of that was she was passed out on the ground and being held by the minion.

      My problem with keeping her around is that the good actors will end up suffering for it. They have a real champ in Emily Bett Rickards who has done some amazing work. And yet you never hear the producers having to sell her work for her, her acting does it on its own. Home runs all the time. Whereas you have the producers out there hawking KCs wares trying to convince us that ‘man she’s great’ but guess what? She’s not! And it’s definitely NOT coming across on the screen. I’ve sat through two years of this and now they are putting the livelihood of the show in her hands and that is the real shame.

      I am holding onto hope that because Sara didn’t die, and that I believe they have three year contracts, that Laurel will die at the end of KCs contract which will be this coming season.

      I don’t care about a ship, I haven’t liked her since the pilot. I care about the fantastic actors they have on hand and what the writers will end up having to do to them to prop her up. We’ve already seen evidence of it this past season. End of story.

      • Fan says:

        Lol CL has to be the worst female actress I have seen cast in a show in years, EBR while I loved her character in season one has gotten a little to much in season two. I personally don’t think she’s that crash hot in crying scenes.

        • Thomas (Taurus) says:

          I came back to read through, not to comment again but I will respond to this. While CL is definitely not a strong actress, she has brought depth and believability to her role. It is her presence on screen, as well as how she speaks of her character and other characters during interviews. She embodies her work as does SA, EBR and DR. She is much like how SA was at the beginning of the series. She can improve.

          This something that just does not come across on the screen from KC, and she has had two years to get it. She doesn’t and it comes through in her interviews. She is more fit for another type of role, not Laurel, not BC.

          I won’t comment on your thoughts regarding EBRs acting. The fact that TVLine and other publications have recognized her outstanding work speak for itself.

      • chiba says:

        You clearly do not understand how contracts work. She is a female lead and is contracted for seven seasons. The best you can hope for is that this show goes past seven seasons and she chooses not to renew.

        • wonderwall says:

          Where does it say that KC has a 7 year contract? I’ve never heard of an actor signing a contract for 7 years. It’s just unheard of (at least for me). Regardless, the contract point is moot. KC can easily be written off the show due to creative reasons (I’m sure they have that somewhere as a clause)…

        • Wow … no, no one has a 7 year contract for this show. Not even Stephen Amell.

        • Briggs says:

          How does one get a seven-year contract for a show that hasn’t even been on for one? You can’t. I don’t know where that info came from, but yeah, even the series lead doesn’t get that. Because what if the show doesn’t get picked up? Now, being contracted with the *network*, that makes more sense…

  44. Dominator of destruction says:

    Caity Lotz set the bar to high for Canary lets see Cassidy do the salmon ladder every time Laurel runs it looks like she is about to fall over lol they kept Sara alive for a reason insurance

  45. A says:

    I think Caity Lotz will probably also be a regular next season and they’re just waiting for Comic-Con to announce it. The EP’s have been too quiet about her…

  46. Josh says:

    Didn’t they pretty much say in the finale the villain of the next season is Waller? Why else would they focus the island flashbacks on her?

    • GildedRose says:

      Oh. That’s a good point, Josh. I didn’t even think of that. Don’t know why. Good. Take her down. I don’t like her.

  47. 134sc says:

    The problem that the writers face is making Laurel’s Canary believable. Sara kicked so much ass and it was believable because she had been trained by the League for at least 2 years (probably more).

    The only way I see that writers matching that with Laurel is if her journey is a slow burn that happens over at least 1 season (preferably more). If the writers rush it then Laurel’s Canary will either be a watered down version of the character (best case scenario) or she is all the sudden a bad-ass which will make no sense at all (worst case scenario). Either way I will not be happy and I am sure I won’t be the only one.

    My hope is that Roy’s awesome archery skills kinda coming out of no-where (and no, one archery lesson does not count) is not a sign of things to come. Despite Roy’s quick turnaround, the writers have yet to let me down in regards to believe-ability and consistency in their story and characters, so I will go into next season with an open mind. But if they screw this up, they will then be on par with Smallville (where all the sudden characters could fight when for 9 seasons prior they never did and/or could). I like Smallville very much, but I expected that from it. In my opinion, Arrow is a far superior show and therefore I expect so much more. If they pull a Smallville, I will be very disappointed.

  48. ArrowFan says:

    I watch it on the DVR when I do. I’m glad I can skip Laurel scenes (I try not to but I do), can’t stand KC acting. She’s so disconnected from the scene or disregards her fellow actors in a scene. I just don’t buy it. She has the same expretion for everything, I’m not a mind reader. This is why I don’t like her for the BC she’s such a icon badass and CL did such a good job. Please here me is not a shipping thing. I expect to be sold a charecter she fall way short from it, now that I read she hasn’t done research on her own character! Really? Take pride in your work, if not don’t be surprise from the reaction of fans. I watch other shows and she’s top of my list of more enoying and bad acting. My friends tell me well is the CW, I’m like sure, but the other lead! Actor are great she should be held to that standard so I do.

  49. K says:

    I’m excited to see what the writers throw at us next season and how they choose to evolve some of the secondary characters mainly, Laurel and Felicity. I’ll just point out that I’m a nerd at heart so I’ve loved Felicity from the moment she appeared on screen but that doesn’t mean I hate Laurel. It disappoints me to see so many people bashing either the character of Laurel or even worse the actress Katie herself. I recognize that Laurel hasn’t been the easiest character to love but I’ve just been re-watching the first few episodes of the series and Katie does a fantastic job in them. I think what the show really needs is to establish who Laurel and Felicity are outside of their roles as love interests for Oliver. If they give Felicity a few solid episodes to establish her background, like they did with Digg in “Suicide Squad,” it would help the character stand on her own two feet and bring back the strong, kick-a** Felicity we had in season 1 and the the start of season 2. Likewise, if they continue to let Laurel grow and move past all her hate and anger I think it will go a long way to revamp the character. Bring on season 3!

    • abby says:

      I don’t actually have a problem with Laurel but my friend hates her… the only thing on Arrow she hates more than Laurel is the fact they seem to be setting up Felicity as a future love interest. Just pointing this out because I think many people have problems with Laurel that are not ship related but for some reason everyone seems to think it’s all related to who people think should be Olivers love interest. Some people don’t care about that and still hate Laurel. Personally out of Laurel/Felicity/Sara I’d rather see him paired with Laurel although I think they did serious damage to their “love” story when they had him get back with the sister he cheated on her with and act like she was a douche for not supporting that. And this is only because I can’t stand Sara and see no romantic chemistry with Felicity as overall I find Oliver incredibly unrootable as a love interest for any woman mainly because of how many his had during the serious, if he was still supposed to be a playboy fair enough but they seem to be trying to sell all three of the previously mentioned relationships as love and (especially) as a pair of them are sisters I’m just don’t find myself rooting for anything but Oliver to be kicked in the balls.

      • abby says:

        *series not serious lol

      • K says:

        Hey abby your “kicked in the balls” comment made me laugh as I feel that way sometimes about Ollie too. Regardless of how much he has grown since the island, Oliver can definitely still be a dick sometimes. I kind of agree with you on the ship front, as much as the geek inside of me always roots for the Laney Boggs character (in this case Felicity) to get the guy I kind of think Oliver is too much like Bruce Wayne to ever settle down with one woman. He’s always playing a role, either as the arrow or as his cover doofus playboy Oliver Queen so it doesn’t leave much room to be his real self.

        • Mary says:

          I think as long as the woman Oliver loves can accept that he lives two different lives it will work in the end. Of course, the woman can’t be a helpless victim that Oliver is always rescuing because then she’ll always be a target.

    • Megan says:

      Agreed! I think the writers could salvage Laurel’s character by not following cannon and turning her into a formidable villain. Or perhaps they should try not using her as the melodrama totem of the series and bringing some levity to her cadence by adding humour. She sometimes overacts, but frankly her scenes are tailored to that portrayal-no fault of the actress. I think there are so many factors contributing to the negativity of her character’s reception, including the inconsistency of her characters writing, the high expectations of canon supporters and of course the Olicity fan base. I am an Olicity fan because I enjoy their dynamic–the nerd and the playboy–because I find Felicity relatable, but that is just a personal preference. I hope they gain some traction with Laurel next season, because it is the weakest aspect of the show. Regardless, I found this season extremely entertaining and my guilty pleasure when I can’t watch Game Of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead or Boardwalk Empire.

  50. A says:

    No Felicity info? :o(