TWD Recap: What's the Matter With Kids Today?

The Walking Dead LizzieIn this week’s episode of The Walking Dead, Tyreese and Carol learn in pretty much the worst way imaginable just how far gone Lizzie really is. But the bigger shock is that that horrific revelation isn’t even the most devastating thing that happens in “The Grove.” Read on – if you dare.

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CHILD’S PLAY | After an opening vignette in which we see Lizzie playing tag with a walker in a bucolic backyard – hello, foreshadowing! – we join the tween head case on the road to Terminus with Tyreese, Carol, Mika and Judith. While keeping watch with Carol one night, Lizzie asks if she has any children, and she tells her ward about Sophia and how she didn’t have a mean bone in her body. 
“Is that why she isn’t here now?” Lizzie asks. Outta the mouths of (psychotic) babes. The next day, when Carol encourages Mika to toughen up, she insists that she’s not a killer, she’s a runner. “My daughter ran,” Carol emphasizes, “and it wasn’t enough.” But Mika’s convinced that, like her mom used to say, everything will work out the way it’s supposed to. Yeah, right. Meanwhile, Lizzie – ever the proponent of zombie rights – stops Tyreese from killing a disabled walker on the train tracks.

HOME, SWEET HOME | While a fire burns somewhere in the distance, Carol and Tyreese leave the girls outside while they check out a house near the titular grove. Lizzie is giving one of her speeches about how walkers are just misunderstood when one comes lumbering toward her and Judith, forcing Mika to shoot. And shoot. And shoot, until finally she hits the head. Afterward, Lizzie won’t say why she’s such a wreck, but she IS such a wreck that her sister has to calm her by making her count flowers in the garden. Later, having moved into the house, Tyreese basks in the unfamiliar comfort of a real living room, and Mika suggests they live there for good. Which maybe they could, if Lizzie wasn’t so twisted. The following morning, Carol is making tea when she spots our opening vignette transpiring outside. Aghast, she runs out and dispatches the walker, sending Lizzie into full-on meltdown mode. “She was my friend,” she screams, “and you killed her!”

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KID STUFF | That afternoon, Carol takes Mika out hunting and suggests that, even though she’s smaller than Lizzie, she’s smarter, so she may have to look out for her sister. Unfortunately, Mika maintains that she just isn’t a killer – and proves it by refusing to shoot a deer. “We have peaches,” she points out sweetly. At the same time, Tyreese is warming fast to Mika’s idea about staying put rather than continuing on to Terminus. “I trust you,” he tells Carol, “and I don’t know if I can get that anywhere else.” (Lord, you can just see the words hitting her like a ton of bricks.) It doesn’t seem meant to be, however. Lizzie’s so messed up that, when Mika catches her feeding a mouse to the walker on the tracks, she considers becoming a walker herself in order to make everyone understand that they’re not monsters, they’re just different. And for a second, it looks as if she might let the walker bite her, too. But her nonsense is interrupted by a pack of walkers still smoking from that nearby fire. There are so many of them, and they are coming so quickly (well, for walkers), that even she helps Tyreese, Carol and Mika shoot them down.

UNHAPPY HAUNTING | Thinking that Lizzie now gets it (if only!), Carol, too, begins to contemplate making a go of it at the grove. If only she didn’t have that terrible secret hanging over her head… The guilt she feels over killing Karen (and what’s-his-name) almost overwhelms her when Tyreese admits to her that he has nightmares about a stranger murdering his girlfriend. “Tyreese… ” she begins, and we think a confession is coming, but it doesn’t. Instead, she offers comfort, and not guessing the reason for her tears, he assures her, “You did right by everyone,” and pulls her into a heartbreaking embrace. And that’s when things get REALLY dreadful. When Tyreese and Carol return to the house, they discover that Lizzie has murdered – MURDERED! – her sister. It’s okay, though, she says, because she didn’t hurt Mika’s brain. This way, she can come back and teach them all about how lovely it is to be a walker. “Judith can change, too,” she suggests. Needless to say, once Carol has taken the gun away from Lizzie and sent her inside with Tyreese, she has a well-deserved breakdown.

JUDGMENT DAY | Reeling, Tyreese wonders aloud whether Lizzie also killed Karen (and that other guy). But Carol points out that she would have let them turn into walkers, not burned them. WTH are they going to do? Carol offers to leave with Lizzie – she certainly can’t be anywhere near Judith. Trouble is, Tyreese and the baby couldn’t make it on their own. Really, this leaves just one awful option. So, as Tyreese watches from a window, Carol takes Lizzie outside. Poor crazy thing thinks Carol’s mad at her for holding a gun on her to make sure they let Mika turn. She doesn’t get that she’s in trouble because she killed her sister. Let’s pick a bouquet for when Mika wakes up, Carol suggests. “Just look at the flowers.” And, while Lizzie’s back is turned, Carol shoots her. That night, as she and Tyreese sit across from one another, utterly shell-shocked, she pushes a gun toward him and quietly admits that she killed his girlfriend. “Do what you have to do,” she says. He grips the rickety table and asks if Karen suffered, if she was scared, and wraps his fingers around the weapon. “Do what you have to do,” Carol says again after answering his questions. But rather than take vengeance, Tyreese says, “I forgive you.” And, at last, we get to draw our first breath since this scene began! After what’s transpired at this place, though, they can’t stay. So once again, off they head down the tracks to Terminus… right past the walker that Lizzie wouldn’t let Tyreese kill.

Okay, your turn. What did you think of the episode? Were you surprised that Tyreese didn’t kill Carol? Hit the comments!

Comments are monitored, so don’t go off topic, don’t frakkin’ curse and don’t bore us with how much your coworker’s sister-in-law makes per hour. Talk smart about TV!

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  1. Cool. says:

    This was the most messed up episode ever. So good. So, so good.

  2. Nia says:

    Carol is amazing! She deserves award, the best performer tonight. It does really sad that Mika had to die like that, killed by her own sister. Lizzie is really ‘sick’, i can not believe it that she was planning to kill Judith too and at the end she was thinking that Carol only mad at her because she pointed gun to Carol NOT because she killed Mika.

  3. Nia says:

    Don’t worry guys! Judith is safe… her safety is one of the reason why Lizzie has to die. Carol said Lizzie can not be around people and they are definitely can not leave Judith alone with Lizzie.

  4. AJ says:

    wth anyone else notice judith wasnt with tyrese and carol at the end?

  5. jarred says:

    Hey guys help me out here at the end of “the grove” the walking deads latest episode at the end when carol and tyrese are walking away from the house going down the train tracks.I dont see either of them holding judith what happened to her or am i just blind.

    • seattlejohn449 says:

      if you took the time to read others comments to these ad nauseum inquiries about Judith they have been answered 3 gazillion times…since you are apparently unable to read other’s comments who have thoroughly answered this question, based on easy-to-access interviews with the actress who plays Carol, then it must be like you said and you really are blind or you simply need to start reading all these posted comments from the beginning that so obviously and eloquently answers your request

    • jessie says:

      again tyreese has judith bundled up on his back

    • LOVETWD says:

      Please read the comments before commentiing. Its obvious this was answered over a handful of time. Not including the Talking Dead and if you truly payed attention, the Walking Dead. Its a shame people feel a need to comment but don’t even understand the show or even try to understand it before asking something that was already asked. SMH.

      • Es Verdad says:

        Ok, there’s so many comments it’s difficult for someone to avidly follow unless you’re totally obsessed and don’t work at some point to support yourself! Give these people a break, like me who texted about Judith right after the episode. Answer it or ignore their question…you don’t need to be condescending and rude.

        • Lady1 says:

          I read all the comments and you might point but it was annoying to read the same question over twenty times….just saying.

  6. Thewaggon says:

    I love the walking dead. This season is good I agree. Awesome character development and some real open ended plot twists with lots of possibilities to come. That being said… Too far guys too far! Really? That was completely unnecessary the way they went about showcasing appropriate mental issues under apocalyptic circumstances. Killing the girls and taking away their innocence first was unnecessary and the show in my opinion just went too far. We understand the severity of the situation but there is no need for kids to murder kids and then kill another little girl because it seems the only option. Remember guys this is a form of entertainment not a documentary. There is zero entertainment in killing/murdering or in the suffering of kids in any capacity. Yes it is a show but we do not need to promote in any way the demise of children and their innocence.

    • LOVETWD says:

      Not necessarily. This is a SHOW, not real life and their have been rumors that states that management has been speaking about making it similar to the comic. Now if you read the comic than you would see that Ben had a brother whom he killed who was then killed by Carl. Ben was also a child in the comic and the brother he killed was also a child. I understand that the way they went about it was quite dark but this show demonstrates survival. They killed her because it was unsafe for her to be around people and by people I mean zombies and humans. She had a lot of psychopathic tendencies and she needed to die. In retrospect, if this were real life. You probably wouldn’t hesistate to do the same thing that Carol did. Even if it was a painful thing for you to do. Would you honestly feel quite safe in having someone who killed her sister in cold blood, fed rats to zombies, opened the door in the prison (how did those zombies get in), in your home. Knowing that she might kill you and everyone else (including baby Judith!) because of her psychological problems? My bet is that you would have definitely put her down. Its a show. So GET OVER IT.

      • Thewaggon says:

        I agree it is just a show, and yes I might make some of the same decisions and I’m not saying that under the circumstances it didn’t make sense. My point is simply why would I want to watch something that showcases children murdering each other. If you guys are ok with our entertainment industry scratching for rating using the shock value of killing kids then I think we need to rethink what we feel is really entertainment. Obviously there is a degradation of our society in play here. It’s funny some of my favorite movies are violent, bloody, senselessly gory movies like predator or 300 and the like. I deal with real life situation of violence and gore in my profession I understand it’s a real part

        • Thewaggon says:

          Of life. I just don’t find any entertainment value in the killing of kids is all.

          • JLB says:

            It wasn’t for entertainment value, it was for story value. Desperate times create desperate situations. Making very tough decisions is what ensures survival. Lizzie was a sociopath completely unhinged from reality and a danger to everyone else around her. What should they have done? Drop her off at the local asylum? Oh, wait, there aren’t any anymore. Lizzie killing Mika was a sad, sad tragedy but this is post-apocalyptic Georgia and there are no resources for dealing with a nutbag like Lizzie.

    • El Wilfred says:

      This is a story directly from the comic, it had to be told

      • Sophia B. says:

        With a lot of things changed, sisters for twin boys and Carlo for Carl. And there was no baby Judith she had already been killed during the prison attack. So I guess you could say in around about way the thread of the story came from the comics.

  7. Andrew Hass says:

    Wow!That was a great episode.I understand why Carol killed Lizzie because they couldn’t trust her around the baby and they couldn’t just leave her behind alone.As for Tyrese he said he forgave Carol but he won’t forget what she did.He might understand her killing Karen and David was for the greater good but he might wonder what she might do in a similar situation down the line.However now in the final 2 episodes all the characters will come together and we are going to see some tearful reunions and setting the stage for next season.

  8. Justin says:

    Did no one pick up on the fire being from the cabin that Darryl and Beth burned down? Maybe showing how close they were to each other at one point?

  9. Jason says:

    Great drama series… oh, and there are zombies. This episode embodies what I always tell people about this show. It’s not just blood and guts, it is a very well written, character-driven drama. It just happens to be set in a post-apocalyptic, zombie ridden world.

  10. Lena says:

    Did Rick drop off the face of the Earth?

    • Summer says:

      On The Talking Dead they mentioned that they purposely didn’t show Rick for 3 episodes in a row to show how truly broken this group is. It’s not happily ever after in this world all the time and you can see other characters shine without their de facto leader. I’m not happy with the lack of Rick either but I get why they did it. Hoping there’s some Rick next episode!

      • jessie says:

        me 2 i wanna see rick and michonne and carl i’ll be glad when they are back 2gether

        • Lady1 says:

          I hope the sanctuary is what it claims to be…Rick and Michonne have a gift on smelling the bs. Especially Michonne.

          • rick mama says:

            I have to say that it is not. The tunnel that you see in the next episode would be the perfect place for a trap. Everyone headed there has to go through that tunnel. Lets see if they make it out.

          • JLB says:

            One meaning of the word Terminus is the end. Let’s hope it’s the end of their current way of life, not their life.

  11. Kayla says:

    This might seem obvious but I wasnt sure. What happened to Judith? I didn’t understand why there were three graves…

    • Dav says:

      The grave with the baby shoes was already there when they found the house. Mika even mentions it to Lizzy while they are outside waiting for Carol and Tyreese to clear the house.

      • jessie says:

        finally someone else saw exactly what idid i commented pretty much the exact same words a couple times to those kinda questions. i guess alot of people didnt notice it and since you cant see judith that well because she is all wrapped up made people wonder

    • LOVETWD says:

      Once they arrived at the house, they showed the grave. There is a reason as to why there was a crib at the house….the people who lived there buried a child. At the end, you saw Tyrese wearing a back satchel that had a white blanket over it. Baby Judith was underneath and this was also confirmed on the Talking Dead which is a show that talks about the walking dead and plays right after. They sometimes have guest speakers and people on the show from there.

  12. MaryAnn says:

    Oh my a God what an episode.. Made up for the two before this one. What a tear jerker..My heart is still sad :(

  13. Ken says:

    Kind of ironic, that Carol killed Lizzie for pretty much the same reason that Rick banished her from the prison. He didn’t feel like she could live with other people after what she had done. Amazing episode…….Carol has turned into the comic book version of Andrea. Melissa Mcbride has done an amazing job with her character and is deserving of Emmy recognition.

  14. Joey Padron says:

    Great episode. Glad questions got answered in episode. Melissa did great in episode. Messed up Lizzie killed her sister for her to become a walker. Can’t wait for next episode.

  15. jessie says:

    in the clip on talking dead it looked like daryl was ready to kill that guy who was with him. first he wanted the rabbit daryl killed then he started talking bad about beth and clearly pissed daryl off cause he went for his knife cant wait to see what happens next. i LOVE this show cant wait til next sunday

  16. Jess says:

    Lizzie’s brain was not ever “hard wired” together correctly. When Carol was taking Lizzie out to the grove, Lizzie was yelling, “please Carol, don’t be mad at me for holding the gun at you.” Lizzie thought Carol was mad at her for that. It never even occured to Lizzie that the reason Carol was so upset is that she had just murdered her sister.

    • jessie says:

      in lizzies mind she wasnt killing her sister she was just making her different so she could show everyone how she saw the walker lizzie thought mika would come back and be ok not try to kill anyone and prove to carol that walkers are people just a lil different, she was plum nuts

  17. Viking Red says:

    Holy Smoking Zombies!!!!

  18. Jimmy says:

    Carol should have granted Lizzie’s wish and turned her into a zombie, rather than a shot to the back of the head.

    • LOVETWD says:

      Nope. It was more profound on the way she took care of it.

    • Viking Red says:

      Waking dead or shot in the head dead – either way…dead is dead

    • Lilly says:

      You mean, so she could become a danger to some other person? You do realize the walkers are starving, right? Killing them not only saves lives of other humans, it is the humane thing to stop what was once probably a fine person from wandering around aimlessly, starving and killing people. That’s why Rick killed that half-zombie in the first season. That’s why Andrea killed herself before she turned. No sane person would want to become a zombie. Lizzie was insane and, hence, had no idea what she wanted or needed. Just my opinion, of course.

      • rick mama says:

        Rick let that women in the woods become a zombie so she could be with her husband the zombie head, Eddie. You saw her later coming into the prison after the gov attacks.

        • Lilly says:

          Yes, but she wasn’t actually dead yet. And she was a normal adult, relatively speaking. It’s what she wanted – to give up and “be with her husband” – but all he did was NOT kill her through the head after she stabbed herself. He probably should have. But Rick was hanging by a thread back then, remember. Worlds different, IMO, than either letting a disturbed little girl march around in the woods on her own waiting to be bitten or “killing” her but not through the head and letting her turn. Of course, since TWD left that gruesome detail off camera, we don’t actually know that Carol DIDN’T do that (though the implication is that she shot Lizzie through the head).

      • marie says:

        Totally agree, Lilly; well said. In the insane world of the Walking Dead, killing Lizzie outright – we didn’t have to see it to know that Carol must have shot her in the head – was the more humane way of handling it, vs. either abandoning her knowing she would eventually turn, or shooting her in such a way as to preserve her brain and knowing she would then turn. This was a sad, but very necessary, mercy killing in the truest sense.

  19. Mikael says:

    I’ve been hoping for Lizzy to die since the beginning of the season, which is sad because she’s a child, but wow she did a great job playing a sociopath. A great performance from a child. She obviously had to go. And the foreshadowing with Mika being compared to Sophia, I knew it wouldn’t end well. Carol did an excellent job this episode.

    • Es Verdad says:

      What I don’t understand about Lizzie is if she knew that the walkers turned people into walkers by biting them, proven by the fact she considered letting the rail-road track zombie bite her fingers so she could show the others that they aren’t bad, just different…then why did she think her sis would come back without being bitten by a walker? Doesn’t make sense.

      • jessie says:

        i think she knew she’d come back as a walker because lizzie saw at the prison when people died from being sick not being bitten and they came back as walkers

        • Es Verdad says:

          oh. So she didn’t catch on it was from the water, even after they figured it out? ok.

          • jessie says:

            what exactly do you mean bout the water and them figuring it out im a lil confused on that

          • Es Verdad says:

            Hi Jessie, Only just saw your reply. I thought everyone started coming down with walker-fever without being bitten at the prison because the water was tainted with zombie blood? no?

          • Lilly says:

            Pretty sure the assumption was that the people got sick from the piglets, not the water. And they turned into walkers because the sickness killed them – not because the sickness made them walkers.

          • Sophia B. says:

            Yes, they thought it was the pigs, mom pig died first, Rick also saw a sick bore in the woods. Then right before the young boy died he was in the bathroom and he washed his face in one of the buckets. But I think it came from the pigs. I think Hershel said that it could be that the walkers made the animals sick first. I don’t think there was a over all answer, just them guessing.

  20. LOVETWD says:

    Lizzie was a psychopath. She killed her own sister in cold blood because of her inability to understand or unwillingness to understand that walkers were not human. This is not someone, regardless of age, that you would feel safe in having in your own home. This is someone that professed that you would kill baby Judith and was feeding rats to walkers. Whatever trauma this child underwent…it was better to have killed her rather than bring her back as a walker and allowed her to still kill innocent people. This child is nowhere close to innocent. None at all.

  21. Rebecca says:

    I was hoping that Carole would release lizzy into the wild to live with her zombie bretheren, then it would be sink or swim. She would either have such a brush with death with them that it woke her out of her reverie, or she would turn and be blissfully happy as a walker for the rest of her young zombie life. She was crazy and misguided, her poor sister was caught in her sister’s diluted insane high hopes of uniting zombie with human. As this series progresses there have been plenty of people who have grown attached to the zombies, just not in the way Lizzy did. Usually it was with loved ones. The governor and his daughter. Hershel and his wife and friends in the barn. Mishawn and her dearly departed husband and friend that she had carried around on chain leashes as zombie body guards. Now her blood is on Carole’s hands. People may argue that she would come after Tyrone and Carole and Judith, in which case, they could have left while she was sleeping and wrote a note. They already were going to plan to leave. I am so sad that they are both dead, I cried so much, then my husband called me, and I was a mess, I am pregnant, and he suggested maybe I shouldn’t watch this anymore if it is making me this upset, and I protested. It is mildly scary, all the other scary stuff gets taken away from me during pregnancy, I at least still have walking dead.

    • jessie says:

      i remember how when i was pregnant watching a movie or a show and a child died it was horribly upsetting and even as a mother of kids 10 6 and 4 i still get messed up over a childs death but with lizzie it had to be done eventhough i started to feel sorry 4 her because she just didnt understand that killing was wrong or that walkers are bad if carol had let her run free with the walkers she woulda been killed by them and so much of her would’ve been eaten seeing as how she was small that she wouldnt have been runnin free with the walkers she woulda been one of those that couldn’t even walk. carol did the merciful thing in killing her and buryin her

    • marie says:

      I don’t think the writers/producers could have allowed them to just abandon Lizzie to her fate, and I don’t think the characters of Carol and Tyreese could have done so either. From Carol and Tyreese’s point of view, becoming a walker is the most horrifying and terrible thing that could ever happen to a person. They’re going to have to live with the knowledge that they killed Lizzie, but I think that had they abandoned her to become a walker, they’d be living with an even larger burden of guilt.
      And about Lizzie possibly being “blissfully happy as a walker,” it seems to me those walkers about 180 degrees around from being any kind of happy at all; they look pretty tormented to me, not to mention they’re starving, and likely confused and afraid as well. Nope, not fun being a walker; Carol, with Tyreese’s blessing, did what was most merciful for Lizzie. Sad that it could have not been otherwise, but at this point they really didn’t have a choice.
      Yes, the other characters you mention did become attached to walkers, but that doesn’t justify or endorse their keeping “their” walkers alive, and certainly doesn’t imply that Lizzie’s own obsession with walkers was anything but the twisted outlook of a very damaged personality. In each of those situations, I think the intent was for the audience to understand why these particular characters might have trouble letting go of their loved ones now turned walkers, but not for us to think anything along the lines of, Gee, isn’t that nice, they’re still protecting (their daughter/wife/whoever). No, we were meant to see the desperation and horror in these situations.
      And none of those other folks ever demonstrated a wish to actually BECOME a walker; poor sick Lizzie was the most twisted of all of them, perhaps, or maybe Lizzie’s obsession was just another impossible reaction to an impossible situation.
      No, in this situation, to protect the baby and themselves, Tyreese and Carol had to kill Lizzie.

    • Es Verdad says:

      LOL, cute and funny…hormones raging.

  22. marie says:

    The producers were very wise and compassionate towards the audience in not showing either child’s death on camera, and in showing only a brief glimpse of Mika’s body without showing the damage Lizzie did to her. THAT would have been going too far.

    • jessie says:

      i agree with you, poor sweet little mika though, her dying was horrible i am just glad lizzie didnt kill judith too like she was going 2

    • Jul says:

      I was wondering if it might also have something to do with preventing the kids from acting certain parts? I mean I know it’s just acting but it also has to have some kind of impact on young actors? Sometimes I really wonder how parents can let their kids play in something like that; I mean I hope there are some kinds of trick during filming to avoid making them play stuff that is too weird.

  23. Rich says:

    The only thing that really bugged me was that they left the fallen walker alive in the end. Don’t they know the only way to restore the world is to kill every single walker?

  24. Dani says:

    This episode should have been called “Stop leaving Lizzie with the freakin’ baby!”

    • Walkr says:

      ha ha… now that’s funny!

    • Sophia B. says:

      Hahahahahaha, very good one. I kept thinking the same thing. I mean no one saw her cover the babies mouth. But they did keep leaving her alone after the whole walker tag. When she went off even telling Carol what if she killed her. So I would think no leaving baby with this crazy little thing. But I guess they didn’t want to admit that Lizzie was insane at that time. See what happens when you let your guard down, it happened with Daryl opening that door with out checking what was on the out side.

  25. Arthur Lievano says:

    Can someone explain to me where was Judith when Tyreese and Carol left the house!

    • Walkr says:

      They left the girls in the yard, but they did not go far. They did not realize Lizzy was as bad as she was. They were just right there but had their backs turned.

    • Walkr says:

      In a pack on Tyreese’s back. They did not do a good job with the papoose. It looks like a frame, but was supposed to be a baby. After all this I hope they do better next time! She is okay.

  26. jim says:

    Did, judith die.? Because there was 3 graves and they left the house without a baby… but there was no mention of her dearth?

    • Walkr says:

      The baby grave was there when they got there. Judith was in a pack on Tyreese’s back.

    • jessie says:

      baby judith is alive bundled completely up in a blanket and is on tyreeses back. there are 3 graves there because the one with the baby shoes was already there when they arrived it shows it a couple times and the other 2 graves are of course lizzie and mikas

  27. Marco says:

    I can’t belive they killed another little girl ??!!!
    This is really crossed the line !!!
    When they killed Andrea i was mad but i got over it, when they kill Hershel i was maaad but i got over it and when they killed Sophia, Amy, Lori, Shane, T-Dog and i was mad as hell but i got over it…
    But killing two fantastic little girls ….. i cried and feel bad all day and i am nervouse ……
    Mika was just the sweatest thing i ever saw and they couldnt save her and Lizzie… ooohh Lizzie the way they killed her of was just shocking i thought that they are gonna make it and i really love those two and i am sad like nobody and better make this episode was a dream you idiots !!!! RIP Mika and Lizzie i wish ther is some way to bring you bouth back… :( :'(

    • Lady1 says:

      Nothing is ever untouchable on this show sadly. Oh except for Rick LOL

    • JLB says:

      Uh, Lizzie was hardly the sweetest little girl. She was a total headcase sociopath, unable to be redeemed. There really was no “making it” for her. She needed to die to prevent further instances of her killing people, as in Judith.

  28. Elle Bolton says:

    Who was the 3rd grave and where was baby judith as they leave the house

    • Lilly says:

      OMG, people – please, please, please read SOME of the comments before you comment here so many hours after the comment string has started. This question has been asked and answered about 30 times (no exaggeration). Judith was in a papoose-type thing on Tyreese’s back. The prop master needs to put something a little larger in there because most of us noted it didn’t look right. But Melissa confirmed on TTD that Judith was on Tyreese’s back.

      • JLB says:

        I second the motion. Please read some of the earlier comments to see if the question you have has been answered a hundred times before posting yet another question asking the same thing. Tedious!

    • jessie says:

      i think the 3rd grave with the baby shoes belonged to the baby that lived in that house b4. when they are all in the living room there is a wooden baby crib which i assume belonged to the baby in the grave

  29. Medina says:

    With the grave situation in the beginning of the scene it shows 2 graves one with just a cross (left) and a cross with baby shoes (right). Camera angle looking away from the house. Now when they show the graves with the girls now buried. You’ll see a new grave (far left) left of just the cross (now in the middle) and the one with the baby shoes on the far right. Now youll see 2 more graves in front of those with flowers on top. Look at the color of the dirty, The newer graves are lighter in color (3). The old ones are darker (2). And if you count you’ll get 5. When in the beginning it was 2. And we all know that neither carol or tyreese had a baby at the end. But if you go back to the beginning of the episode when the are walking down the railroad NOBODY is caring the baby. So they could have killed judith or they have her stowed away like usual. UGH sunday come.

    • Lilly says:

      Count all the graves you want. Melissa McBride said on The Talking Dead that Judith was on Tyreese’s back.

    • jessie says:

      in the beginning of the episode when they r walking down the tracks judith is on carols back in that carrier u can see the sides of her arms and top of her head as for the graves i thought that other dirt which made it look like 5 graves was the loose dirt left on the ground from them digging the girls graves but i could b wrong and at the end of the episode tyreese does have judith packed on his back it just dont look like it should. they even say on talking dead she is alive they have her with them. i cant wait 4 next sunday myself i wanna see how this season is gonna play out and what questions we r all gonna b hangin on 2 until october

    • JLB says:

      Lilly and Jessie, you have the patience of a saint answering these questions once again!!!

  30. jessie says:

    what i dont really understand is why both carol and tyreese would go out of the house and down in the grove and leave the kids alone, especially the baby she cant even walk yet so what was she supposed to do if a herd of walkers came through there, depend on the other 2 girls to protect her i guess. as a mother there is no way in hell i’d go anywhere further than 10 or 15 feet away from my kids in a zombie apocalypse. they’d be in my sight at all times or with other adults

    • Lady1 says:

      I was thinking of this as well, especially with the baby at the house. I’m thinking it added to the possible shock value of the show for them to arrive together to see what had happened.

      It was the same thing when Tyrese went to check the walkers and Lizzie was almost suffocating baby Judith :(

      • jessie says:

        when lizzie almost smothered baby judith i wanted to reach through the tv and wring lizzies neck i see what u mean though about the shock value to it

  31. VAde says:

    judith is dead??

  32. jessie says:

    one thing i love the most about this show is it really draws u in and makes ya care about the people in it. this is the only show i watch that makes me feel like i’m right there. it can make me laugh, cry, worry, get mad, get sad and just keep me interested. i hope next week we get to see some of everyone. i’d like to know where beth is and whats happening to her. i’m ready to see the group as a group again although i did enjoy learning more about all the characters. its been good insight i’ve even started liking bob better but im ready to have them back 2gether

  33. Lady1 says:

    One of the best episodes of the season! By far!

  34. Scott says:

    Emmy award for Melissa! Great episode. Great show!

  35. Tommy says:

    Is the baby still alive or did they shed that weight too?

  36. Tommy says:

    + to previous: I didn’t see it with them as they left.

    • jessie says:

      yes baby judith is alive she was in that carrier on tyreeses back all covered up and it was hard to tell it was her so dont feel bad also on talking dead melissa mcbride confirmed that judith is alive and with them in that thing on tyreeses back : )

  37. Nickkkii says:

    Lizzie was not a psychopath, those are people that don’t have empathy no remorse, that crazy kid was just nucking futs

    • Sophia B. says:

      She showed no remorse what so ever after killing her sister. She should no emotion after her father died, she was more upset the her friend the walker died at the fence. She even thought Carlo was mad at her for pulling a gun on her and that was not the first time she threaten Carlo, the first time was after Carlo killed tag zombie. Psychopath or full on crazy she had to go.

    • JLB says:

      You’ve got it backwards. Sociopaths have no remorse or guilt for antisocial behavior including murder. That was Lizzie.

  38. Marco says:

    I can’t belive they killed another little girl ??!!!
    This is really crossed the line !!!
    When they killed Andrea i was mad but i got over it, when they kill Hershel i was maaad but i got over it and when they killed Sophia, Amy, Lori, Shane, T-Dog and i was mad as hell but i got over it…
    But killing two fantastic little girls ….. i cried and feel bad all day and i am nervouse ……
    Mika was just the sweatest thing i ever saw and they couldnt save her and Lizzie… ooohh Lizzie the way they killed her of was just shocking i thought that they are gonna make it and i really love those two and i am sad like nobody and better make this episode was a dream you idiots !!!! RIP Mika and Lizzie i wish ther is some way to bring you bouth back… :( :'( ..

    • JLB says:

      You felt so bad you had to post this a second time? This is the exact same comment you posted some hours ago. BTW, the word is sweetest, not sweatest unless you mean that she perspired a lot.

    • jessie says:

      i have to admit i started to feel just a lil sorry for lizzie in this episode because the poor girl just didnt understand what she did wrong she really didnt understand anything but im glad carol killed her b4 she killed judith or someone else. lizzie just didnt belong in twd world. now poor lil sweet mika i hate that she had to die but at least her death proved that lizzie had to go i hate to see a child die but 4 lizzie there wasnt another choice carol did the right thing the merciful thing the only thing she could do

  39. Me says:

    I felt the flowers were symbolic of the ones Daryl found while searching for Sophia and helped give Carol hope. They represented comfort during death/loss.

  40. Phil Holmes says:

    Another big question for the end of the season is, now that Tyrese has forgiven Carol, what happens when they reach Terminus and reunite with the others? Will Rick bring up the issue to the group out of protest to her return? And if he does, how will that compromise the dynamic of their already shattered makeshift family? These characters go through so much. Awesome show!!

    • Sophia B. says:

      I think once Rich sees Judith, he wont care about what happened, also now that Ty forgave her how can he use that as an excuse anymore.

    • Lilly says:

      Good question, Phil. And I agree with Sophia that Rick will be distracted, at least temporarily, by the appearance of Judith. But – just like Tyreese said – Rick will probably be able to find it in his heart to forgive Carol for what she did (especially since her banishment was due in part to save the group from Tyreese’s blow-up when he found out), but he won’t forget for a long while. Meaning, he still shouldn’t trust Carol. I wouldn’t.

      • jessie says:

        i honestly dont think rick was ever mad at carol i think he sent her away to protect her from tyreese cause at that time tyreese was crazy angry with grief rick loves carol and i think carol still loves rick in a close friend n family way and once rick n carl michonne see judith is alive rick and carl are gonna be overjoyed and very greatful to tyreese and carol for saving her and protecting her i think rick will apologize to carol and all will be forgivin. carl thinkin judith is dead is taking it really hard cant wait til he sees his baby sis alive of course as long baby judith survives the road to terminus and i pray she will

        • jessie says:

          eventhough rick may not trust carol yet i think he understood that she killed carol and david trying to protect everyone else and she truly thought she was doing the right thing

  41. Sara says:

    Did they kill Judith too because one of the graves has a pair of baby shoes wrapped around it and they leave the house without holding Judith. I couldn’t imagine that they’d just leave her there to die. But I’m just really curious and confused on that.

    • Lilly says:

      OMG, Sara. If you haven’t done so since posting your comment, please read just a FEW of the comment in this thread. You may find them enlightening.

    • Sophia b. says:

      No, and why would they kill Judith?

      • Es Verdad says:

        Push your control + F button and type-in “Judith” which will show you many asked the same question and “Talking Dead” answered it after the episode and the baby is alive, just prop dude did a bad job on making it obvious. There are some, like Jessie, who will answer politely, but some will insult you for asking.

        • Sophia B. says:

          Hey Es Verdad, I was not asking about Judith. I was answering the question about Judith. I answered no then asked why would they kill her off. It was just a very bad prop on Ty’s back. I wonder if they will talk about it on The Talking Dead this Sunday.

  42. xtracrispydead says:

    This season has provided insight which would not have been possible with thegroup as a whole. While The Grove was depressing it also had revelations which cleared up more than a few questions I had. It also continued the growth of Carols transition from the mousy- no pun intended – insecure and helpless woman first shown in episode 102 to the now spirited self confident and decisive character with traits needed to survive in this crazy and dangerous world. Kudos to Melissa McBride for delivering big time on the development of Carol. Keep up the superb work.

  43. jessie says:

    hey guys its less than 18 hours til a new episode of the walking dead. im so excited, just cant wait to see what happens

  44. Giorgio says:

    I am really astonished, to find so many of you OK with the killing of an obviously mentally ill young girl. I do not think, that something like euthanasia exists. I think, they could have done a lot of things, disarm her for example. But you cannot shot a minor in the head from behind and think it is justified just because she is ill and did a horrible homozide. She is a minor and she is mentally ill, so deal with it, and do not do any more killing!

    • Whatareyouthinking? says:

      Disarm her? So they are suppose to disarm her and keep an eye on her 24/7 as they try to keep baby Judith and themselves alive. Or should they have taken her to the nearest mental facility? OH WAIT, THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THAT NOW IS THERE?! There are only 2 people and a baby. It is not like they are back in the prison where they can lock her up. And if they left her behind should they have left a warning to others who might come along……..Beware this child is mentally ill. She may try to turn you. Or should they have let her turn so maybe she could kill someone else. YES, it is a terrible terrible thing to happen, but they had no other options. I’m sure anything they decided short of keeping that little psycho would of not been okay with you….So if this ever happens you should be the one in charge of all the people who are mentally ill. Lets see how long you live.

    • Es Verdad says:

      Giorgio, Did you read the alert before the beginning of each episode? For mature audiences, graphic and disturbing content…? If you are disturbed by the content you shouldn’t watch because the next episode about Terminus is going to make the previous one look like a bed time story.

    • Lilly says:

      Giorgio, you act like all of us would do the same thing if we had an eleven-year-old psycho in our house! We certainly would not. But we have multiple options. This is a tv show. Set in an apocalypse. Most of these TWD characters wouldn’t approve of guns in their cushy pre-walker life, let alone killing other humans who now threaten their survival. The decision to put Lizzie out of her misery and save anyone else who came in contact with her in the future was the ONLY logical choice. Even if Tyreese and Carol were alone with Lizzie, it was the best choice. But with Judith to consider, there was no other option. Otherwise, a week, a month, a year down the road, Mika won’t be the only innocent dead because of their inability to act earlier. Indeed, nothing short of Mika’s (or Judith’s) death at Lizzie’s hand would have pushed Carol to the decision she and Tyreese made.

  45. Cherokee says:

    It was obvious that Lizzy had a few issues that couldn’t be cured with some TLC. If you hadn’t figured it out until this episode, she was collecting and slaughtering small animals to feed the walkers, she named the walkers, and she didn’t like to kill them. She was completely crazy. She just needed to kill Minka to prove it. I thought Minka was gonna kill Lizzy! Everyone knew it eventually would have to be done.

  46. Giorgio says:

    It is not that I cannot understand your arguments very well. Keeping Lizzy alive would be a terrible burden, no doubt. And a huge risk. It is just, that I would decide differently. For me, Lizzy was still “people” (@ Whatareyouthinking). She was not a walker. I think, the survival of those, that are not walkers, is an essential thing in an apocalyptic situation, that is described here. So, simple enough, I would have taken the risk to keep Lizzie alive, even, if it would mean my own death in the worst case. Because, in an apocalyptic situation the survival of the whole group would be the most important to stay human. And this I think, because staying human in such a situation is more important than the survival itself. Of course, you would have to kill walkers, this is ethically common sense. But for the living under those circumstances, taking risks is an every day thing in the world of “the walking dead”. When they now go into “Terminus” it is a hell of a huge risk, we knew this all the time, and what from what Es Verdad says, it is really a mistake. But I can understand that they go there, they take a huge risk to do so, BECAUSE OF their hopes! So, they should have taken the risk with Lizzy, too. She is obviously in PTSD, and no-one has ever tried to deal with it really. You are right, Cherokee, that some TLC will not help, but a bit more of talking to her and talking about her feelings, yes, someone could have tried. Instead, they only talked about the phenomena themselves, like, when she refuses to see walkers as dangerous.

  47. Jack says:

    Hmm I’m divided on this one; logically killing Lizzie was the right choice but she was a child who was far from being fully developed. What makes something acceptable or not depends on whether the person your killing is at fault through choice or not. It’s clear Lizzie derived no enjoyment from her actions and the way she was wasn’t her choice and was part of her childhood development. However, at that time she was a danger to the baby and clearly something had to be done. If they’d simply left her in the night, I wouldn’t be worried what she might do to others who might come across her because they wouldn’t have the emotional connection that Carol and Tyreese had to her. I’d be more worried about her playing games with walkers at the first opportunity and dying a slow, painful death. I’m undecided on whether Carol felt forced into this decision or to disregard her as a child killer now, I must admit.

  48. jessie says:

    lil lizzie took a knife stabbed her sister, cut , and sliced and when she saw what she had done she was going to kill the little one. there was nothing to do for lizzie except kill her or she woulda just killed herself by being bitten she said she could hear the walkers and they wanted her to change or she woulda killed everyone around her. in that world carol did the right thing

  49. jessie says:

    lil lizzie took a knife stabbed her sister, cut , and sliced and when she saw what she had done she was going to kill the little one. there was nothing to do for lizzie except kill her or she woulda just killed herself by being bitten she said she could hear the walkers and they wanted her to change or she woulda killed everyone around her. in that world carol did the right thing theres no doubt bout it

  50. Comic Book Guy says: